Are You Living Safe Or Standing Firm? - S24E1

Summary

Podcast Summary: Deepen with Pastor Joby Martin

Episode: Are You Living Safe Or Standing Firm? - S24E1
Date: October 20, 2025
Host: Pastor Joby Martin
Series: Stand Firm and Act Like Men

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Episode Overview

This episode launches the “Stand Firm and Act Like Men” series, inspired by Pastor Joby Martin’s latest book of the same name, which recently made the New York Times bestseller list. The conversation, joined by the regular Deepen podcast team, centers on what biblical manhood looks like, the significance of strong, godly men in families and communities, and how the church’s current vision is challenging both men and women to flourish by aligning with God’s design. The discussion weaves in personal stories about raising children, the value of risk and failure, gender roles in the church and home, and how these themes impact relationships and spiritual growth.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Inspiration and Purpose of the Series

• The new series and book, “Stand Firm and Act Like Men,” aim to address hot-button cultural issues on manhood, sexuality, and godly leadership.
• Pastor Joby expresses gratitude (with a bit of surprise) for the New York Times listing the book, noting the value in increased dialogue across differing worldviews (00:45-02:18).
  • “Our worldviews do not align on many things, so honestly, good on them for allowing a very different voice. …We need more and more folks that don’t have the same worldviews to be able to talk and discuss and things like that.” — Joby Martin (01:39)

2. Personal Stories on Education, Discipline, and Raising Boys

• Pastor Joby reflects on his struggle in elementary school and how moving to a new district changed his trajectory, highlighting the differences in how boys and girls often experience the education system (03:00-05:01).
• The panel dissects the challenges parents face in balancing discipline, energy, and respect—emphasizing training boys for kindness, not just niceness (05:29–06:21).
• Respect for mothers and the power of example are stressed:
  • “You don’t always have to agree with her, but you will respect her, period. That’s a non-negotiable.” — Panelist D (08:15)
• Moving testimonies about parent-children relationships and generational faithfulness are shared, culminating in stories of children showing respect and affection for their parents and how this reflects biblical manhood (09:21–12:12).

3. Flourishing When Men Lead and Love Well

• The hosts celebrate seeing men in their church step up spiritually, emphasizing that when men lead and love well, everyone flourishes (13:09–14:53).
• This is directly tied to the year’s theme for the church, with personal stories of how it’s inspiring hope and unity across genders.

4. Critique of Cultural Narratives—DEI, Feminism, and Gender Roles

• Pastor Joby and co-hosts discuss the downsides of “corporate feminism” and DEI quota systems, contrasting these with the Bible’s teaching on gender and complementarity (15:02–19:11).
  • “The problem with the corporate feminism—first of all, it’s a lie. It’s trying to reject God's created order… It automatically puts you in competition against half of the human race. But we're supposed to complement one another.” — Joby Martin (18:15)
• The importance of both men and women reading/understanding resources aimed at each gender to better understand and serve one another is highlighted.

5. Creation, Calling, and Identity

• The panel explores the Genesis narrative, noting Adam’s creation in the wilderness versus Eve’s in the garden, drawing theological and practical insights about masculinity and femininity (29:13–31:33).
  • “God gave every man a woman to love, work to enjoy, and will to obey.” — Joby Martin, crediting John Bryson (29:29)
• Psalm 139 is discussed as a foundational scripture for both boys and girls, not only for body image but for instilling a sense of divine value and identity (22:13–25:46).
  • “You should never apologize for God's ideas. And it was God's idea that He would be imaged and His likeness would be displayed in males and females.” — Joby Martin (22:59)

6. The Role of Encouragement, Risk, and Failure

• Risk-taking and learning to fail are presented as essential parts of moving from boyhood to manhood (40:33–43:14).
  • “Boys choose situations where they can control the outcome. Men risk failure.” — Excerpt from Stand Firm and Act Like Men, quoted by the host (40:33)
• The necessity of encouragement—especially from wives/mothers—to help men flourish is explored through touching personal stories (49:16–52:37).
  • “The encouragement on the lips of a wife are gold in the heart of a man, period.” — Joby Martin (52:41)

7. Practical Encouragement for Families

• Tips for both parents and spouses about ways to affirm, encourage, and support each other are offered (54:30–58:03).
• Examples include sending affirming texts, breaking the ice with encouragement if it feels awkward, and recognizing the risk and responsibility in both men’s and women’s callings and support for one another.

8. Love and Respect: The Biblical Foundation

• Ephesians 5 is referenced as a simple but powerful dynamic in marriage: men crave respect; women crave value.
  • “No matter what your issue is, it comes down to this. It just comes down to love and respect.” — Joby Martin (59:34)
• Failures in this dynamic are linked to the most common marriage pitfalls—from minor annoyances to major betrayals (59:03–60:09).
• Mutual submission and honoring each other's roles are emphasized as the biblical vision (60:17).

9. Parenting, Obedience, and Letting Go of Control

• As their children reach adulthood, the guests reflect on the importance of not mapping out an entire future but helping kids make the next obedient step with the Lord (63:38–65:23).
  • “My job is just to help them make the next obedient step with the Lord.” — Charles Martin via Joby Martin (63:38)

10. Defining Manhood by God’s Unchanging Love and Fatherhood

• The episode closes with a reminder of two key truths to defeat the enemy's lies: God’s love is unwavering, and believers are His children (65:23–66:10).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

"The crew that had been ringing the tolerance bell in practicality wasn't very tolerant… We need more folks that don't have the same worldviews to be able to talk and discuss and things like that.”
— Joby Martin ([01:39])

"You should never apologize for God's ideas. And it was God's idea that He would be imaged and His likeness would be displayed in males and females.”
— Joby Martin ([22:59])

"There's time and space for that kind of activity and then there's time and space to sit down and be quiet. If you don't give that outlet, you're going to run into a problem."
— Joby Martin ([06:02])

"The encouragement on the lips of a wife are gold in the heart of a man, period."
— Joby Martin ([52:41])

"Boys choose situations where they can control the outcome. Men risk failure."
— Stand Firm and Act Like Men, quoted by the host ([40:33])

"My job is not to map out the future for my children. My job is just to help them make the next obedient step with the Lord."
— Charles Martin via Joby Martin ([63:38])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• New Series & Book Recognition: 00:18–02:18
• Boyhood, School & Education System: 03:00–05:01
• Parenting Boys & Respect for Mothers: 05:29–09:21
• Flourishing Families When Men Lead: 13:09–14:53
• Cultural Critique (DEI, Feminism): 15:02–19:11
• Identity, Psalm 139 for Boys & Girls: 22:13–25:46
• Creation, Garden, Masculinity/Femininity: 29:13–31:33
• Risk, Failure, and Manhood: 40:33–43:14
• Encouragement in Marriage & Parenting: 49:16–52:37
• Love and Respect (Ephesians 5): 59:03–60:09
• Parenting Young Adults—Obedience not Mapping Futures: 63:38–65:23
• Defeating the Enemy with God’s Love: 65:23–66:10

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Overall Tone

The episode is honest, warm, and often humorous, blending theological depth with practical, real-world stories. The tone is encouraging and directive, particularly towards men, but with many affirmations and applications for women and families. The conversation is candid about struggles, failures, culture clashes, and the everyday realities of living out biblical manhood and womanhood.

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Who Should Listen?

• Parents seeking wisdom on raising boys and girls according to biblical values
• Men and women wanting to better understand God’s design for masculinity/femininity
• Couples looking to strengthen their marriage through love, respect, and mutual encouragement
• Anyone interested in Christian perspectives on culture, gender, and spiritual formation

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This episode is rich in spiritual encouragement and practical advice, using relatable stories and deep biblical insight to call listeners to courageous, risk-taking, and sacrificial living—rooted in the unchanging love and purposes of God.

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to Deepen with Pastor Joby Martin. The Church of 1122 is a movement for all people to discover and deepen a relationship with Jesus Christ. And we're praying this message helps you deepen your relationship with him. Now let's dive in.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Welcome back to the Deepen podcast. We are starting a brand new series called Stand Firm and Act Like Men, in line with Pastor Joby. Your newest book, Stand Firm and Act Like Men, which hit the New York Times bestseller. It's a huge deal and a lot of authors dream of that day. And it's not even about being on the list. It's about how many more people we're going to reach.

[B]

So what I will say, not that I think anybody from the Times is listening to the Deepen podcast, but just in case, you know, I would say that from the little that I know about the New York Times, our worldviews do not align on many things. So honestly, good on them for allowing a very different voice. And you know what? They would consider my opinions about manhood. I mean, it's all kind of things that are hot button topics right now, like sex and sexuality and what a man is and all that stuff. But honestly, man, good on them. Because I think a big problem in our culture today is the. The crew that had been ringing the tolerance bell in practicality wasn't very tolerant of people.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

That they consider to be intolerant. You know what I mean? But so. So it does show, in my opinion, a lot of maturity. Not that they give. Not that they care at all about giving my vote, but I really did. If anybody were to listen from them, I would say thank you, because they could have just scratched us just based on, like, we don't want this thing to get publicized. And so I think. I think, honestly, in light of what we've seen over the past few weeks with Charlie Kirk and all that, we need more and more and more folks that don't have the same worldviews to be able to talk and discuss and things like that. So I would say thanks.

[C]

Yeah, it's very, very exciting and it is crazy.

[B]

I never. Charles has helped a lot with this, but I've. I don't think I ever made above a C on any paper that I've ever written. Like, in an English type things. I mean, in seminary and things like that. But those are theological. Those are different, you know? But isn't that funny? My English teacher told my mom I wouldn't make it past sixth grade if she was still alive. I would love to send her a copy of this. I'm not gonna call her name.

[C]

It is seriously wild that any teacher says that for any reason. Because you seriously just don't know. Like, I mean, that's. It's just crazy that they would say that to any young child.

[B]

Well, here's the thing. So if you've read Wild at Heart, a big part of it is, and I've referenced it. There's so many things that I got to give credit to John Eldridge on. I mean, I've never met him, but man, that book on being an image bearer of God and not apologizing for being a man was revolutionary to me. I read it out here on the beach in Jack's beach when I first moved to town. And a part of the reason I didn't do well in school is cuz school is for girls. The American elementary system is not for boys. Think about it. In order to be a good student, what you have to be quiet, you have to be nice, you have to sit still for a long time. Most of what you do needs to be between your ears and not physical. And if anything physical happens, you actually, you get demerits for it. And I didn't fit at whatsoever. In fact, this, when I was in the like fourth, fifth grade, I was like in the dumb class. I was in the, in the. You know, you kind of look around, you're like, okay, I guess this is who I am, you know, because I was in trouble all the time. I live two blocks from the school. I just go home. If I didn't lie, I just like, I'm out of here. We had a fence and I would just hop the fence and go home all the time. I was constantly in trouble, whatever. Thank God we moved. And when we moved to a different school district out of Dylan, and we moved to Lugoff, South Carolina. They tested you? And I tested into the gifted.

[C]

Oh, wow.

[B]

And I mean, my parents were like, wait, are you sure we get this mix? You know what I mean?

[D]

Test the right kid.

[B]

Right. But it did, it put me in a completely different group.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

And so like in starting in the sixth or seventh grade, I did a day, a week at the high school. But there they were super. Like we learned differently and it was more lab, you know what I mean? So honestly, if we didn't make that move, I don't know where I would have ended up.

[D]

Wow.

[B]

Probably with most of my Dylan friends and you know.

[C]

Yeah. It's wild to think about. This is a little bit of a rabbit hole but not really. But we got a lot of moms that listen and dads. So for the parents of boys, what is that line between like letting BO boys and helping them be a citizen of society? They're like, there are just some, you know, you still have to shape them to like, know how to live in the world.

[B]

Well, there's, the first line is, are we talking about immoral activities? You say no to those. There's no, like, when people say, well, boys will be boys and it's like abusing girls or something, you're like, no, negative. We don't do that, period. But if it's just kind of, you're just rambunctious, that's a different thing. So you just. The biggest thing is there's time and space for that kind of activities and then there's time and space to sit down and be quiet. When it's time to sit down and be quiet.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And if you don't give that outlet, you're going to run into a problem, you know, and a lot of it just has to be. It's mostly about how you're treating people, you know, and you want to train your boys and girls to just treat people with respect and be kind. The Bible doesn't say anything about being nice, but it does say to be kind. Right?

[D]

Yeah, we didn't, we, we found like when our boys were young, middle school, grammar school, whatever, I mean, they have a lot of energy when they get home and they've been cooped up all day. So we found stuff for them to do. I mean, sports, obviously, they were always in sports, but that was one of the great things about Taekwondo that, that they, they would go and they, they're two and a half hours of sparring and they're worn out.

[B]

He's fine.

[D]

So that was a, that was a beautiful gift to us. We also didn't, they were, they were late high school before a game console ever entered our house. I mean, we just didn't, we just didn't do that. It's just you're not coming home playing video games. You come home, do your homework and then you're going outside and you're going to do something else. We're not sitting there watching the box and you know, whatever.

[B]

Yeah, we never, you know, I've never had to limit JP's like gaming because he just, he would choose outside more. I mean, he will play games for sure.

[D]

Joker's been working out. I saw him tonight. His back's starting to look like yours.

[B]

So he's Seriously, Animal.

[D]

He's training Jiu Jitsu.

[B]

He is. And he's in the gym and he's boxes. Yeah, he could, I think. I hope he doesn't listen to this.

[D]

Oh, he's listening.

[C]

He definitely listens.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

You think he, you think he can take you?

[B]

If I had really, it'd be dang close.

[D]

Because you'd have to hurt him to stop him.

[B]

I'd have to hurt him to stop him.

[D]

Right.

[B]

And he trained stand up and I'm only trained on the ground. And he's, I mean, he's choked out many of the grown people that are on staff here.

[C]

Oh, wow.

[B]

Yes.

[D]

I just want him to be my friend.

[B]

I'd be like, no. And the ships are, it's. We're definitely heading different directions and I ain't getting better. So if it hasn't, he is fully convinced it has. I don't know. We'll see. But God bless them. And you want your boys to grow up and be strong and tough.

[D]

One other thing we, One other thing we did with our boys early. One of them disrespected Christie. And I, I, I mean, I didn't right then and there jerk a knot in his head, but it was pretty close. And I'm like, hold it. You see her? That's my best friend on planet Earth. I loved her before I loved you. She brought you into this earth and she can take you out. I'm not going to have you talk that way to her. Now. You don't always have to agree with her, but you will respect her, period. That's a non negotiable. And the cool thing about that too is that our boys have a sweet relationship with Christy. They love their mama. To this day they're checking on her and calling. Reeves has just got a job working for Baptist and so he had to get some clothes and, you know, so they go to Joseph Banks and do the whole shopping thing or whatever. And anyway, they love hanging out with their mama. So I think that was something that we did right early. Now granted, I did some stuff wrong too, but that was one of the things that we did right.

[B]

Yeah, dude. You know, our family got some devastating news for some family friends. You know, we're hurting for them so bad. I mean, so bad I can't even. It's parents worst nightmare. And I look over tonight, I get finished preaching. Gretchen is just crushed because of the pain that our friends are walking through. And you know how it goes. Like worship just gets it just stirs it all up, right? And she's just crying her face off. And I take her to the altar and I pray for her, which, you know, and then she prays for me. And then I come back and, you know, I gotta think about service a little bit, like, how many songs we're gonna sing and all that. And then I come back to my seat and I look over and my boy, he's just got his AR around his mama and he's. He ain't a. Well, he likes jiu Jitsu, but he. He's not touching hugger unless he's choking you out. But there is. I mean, that's it, dude, you gotta raise that boy. If somebody tried to hurt his mama, he would kill, literally choke them until they were unconscious or lifeless. But he uses those same arms that he uses to choke people out and punch people.

[D]

To raise and worship.

[B]

Yeah, to raise him in worship. Praise God. And put one around his mama. Yeah. And just. And I haven't told him yet because I got. I stood in the service too long, so I got a little bit overwhelmed by people. But I need to text him, just let him know what that means to his mama. He has. See, he has no idea.

[C]

Right.

[B]

You know, I mean, she expects me to put. I put my arm around her 10,000 times. Right?

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

But when. When they're. When your boy does it.

[B]

When you grown boy.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Is not needing you, but trying to take care of you. So that's it. That's a really good picture. Of what? Biblical manhood. He's growing into a man. The best compliment I've ever been given as a dad from my child is from him. I mean, Reagan's the best. She's sweet. And we have a wonderful father daughter relationship. But JP and I were on a fishing trip with Jeff Moore and Fellowship Adventures with a bunch of guys from church. And it was cool because that's probably the first time I've seen JP just man up. And no boy came out on this trip. He was the youngest by far. And he comes to me one night and just goes, daddy, thanks for raising me to be a grown man, you know, and it's really neat to see because when you're in the process, dude, you have no idea. You. I mean, everybody's got great ideas about how they're gonna ra kids until. Until you're in it. I mean, all the promises you make about what you are going to do and not going to do, whatever, man. You're just trying to survive sometimes. But it's a fact, isn't it?

[C]

It is, yeah. And you have way more grace for your parents, who you just realize, like, nobody had a handbook in this, and everyone's just doing the best with what they got.

[B]

Amen.

[D]

We got a phone call the other day from Charlie. Charlie's our oldest. He and Amy have just had their first child, who's our first granddaughter, Ella. She's 8, 10 weeks old. He's been in Alaska doing the guide thing. He's now home. He's been home about two weeks. He had been here about a week. My phone rings, I pick it up, and all he says is, hey, owe you an apology.

[C]

Oh, that's so good. I can't even talk.

[D]

I started laughing.

[B]

Wait till high school, he said, I.

[D]

Just wanted to repent for all of this stuff I did for about the first eight years of my life. I'm so sorry.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

I just laughed. I'm like, look, I love you.

[B]

No problem.

[D]

Welcome to. Welcome to planet Earth.

[C]

You know, I couldn't be more excited about this series. And it's been so fun this whole year to watch the. The vision of this year stand firm and act like men. It is. I just get so excited about it just watching the men in our church, the men I know and the men. I don't just lean in and be so hungry. And tonight, I just felt so. I was buzzing just as much, like, I just felt so excited and hopeful. Like, I just have so much hope for the future and the statement where men lead and love, well, everyone flourishes. It's just there's so much evidence for it. And, you know, I used to get kind of a bad rap for being, like, the feminist on staff, which, let the record reflect, I never was. I just, like, got that reputation. Okay. And I didn't know that. Oh, my. Yeah. And. Cause, you know, I came from the corporate world, where I'm, like, you know, I think I'm supposed to shatter all these glass ceilings like my mom did, and whatever. So it's a little different in ministry, but I just. Tonight, I was just having this moment. I watched you praying over Gretchen, and y' all are crying at the altar. I see Charles praying over his youngest son. They're crying at the altar. And the whole message tonight was, it's not about beating our chest as men. It's about bowing our knee. And then to watch y' all do it and to see this room of men who were just so excited. I mean, you can just tell they're so pumped for the men's conference starting tomorrow, too.

[B]

All right, let's talk about this. Are you glad you're not a DEI hire? Aren't you glad you're not in that seat because you're a girl?

[C]

For sure.

[B]

You see what I'm saying? Like, it doesn't accomplish what people think it's supposed to accomplish. Now, I agree the corporate world has a different set of rules than the church does in regards to certain parts of leadership or whatever, but so does your family.

[C]

Sure.

[B]

Like, I don't care. You can't be the dad, Period. Period. But what if your whole ministry career, Ali, you had this whisper in the back of your mind, well, the only reason I get to sit at this table is because they needed a girl.

[C]

Sure, yeah.

[B]

Yeah, dude, how terrible would that be? Like, then we're using you as a pawn to try to press forward some ideology as opposed to just being the body of Christ and say, hey, this thing's going to shake it. We're going to do what the book says. And you have some serious giftings and God has got his hand on you and your heart is for ministry. And honestly, I've seen it since you were in high school, making peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for homeless people and PB and Joy. And I've seen it since then. And then I've seen it here. And I mean, honestly, the humility that you've had to just do all kind of jobs. Think about all the jobs you've had and think of the influence that you have in this church. You know what I mean? And never do you have to think about, is this because somebody's trying to do the quota thing.

[C]

Yeah. And God's really brought me a long way. I mean, I will totally admit, while I don't think. While I've been on ministry, I've been had this feminist energy. But I did buy into that narrative for a while in college and right out of college, resisting these roles I thought were too traditional. And I wanted to be. I wanted to go against the grain. And then ministry really worked a lot of that out of me and started getting married, I was gonna say, and marrying someone who I was like, wait, I actually have real, no issue with this structure. Like, it's actually exactly how it's designed to be. And I think there's a lot of freedom in that. And you're right. Like, now I don't have to think about what tables I sit at or don't. Or not even myself, but, like, calculating, well, how many women are in the room. Like, that's really not even a thought in my head. It's just we're just doing the thing that we're all called to do, and there's a lot of freedom in that. And I think when we started this year, you know, some people would say, well, what are the women gonna do all year? And it's just been so fun to see one. The women really, like, champion the vision. And I just. I'm just so. It just. It's all just really, really hopeful and exciting. And I. I've loved every second of this year.

[B]

Now I will say Gretchen wrote seven weeks of devotions to the women. Obviously, everybody should read them, but they're from a woman to women. The illustrations are so, like, when. For a week. When I'm talking about what it means to be strong as a man, the devotionals are. What does it look like to be strong as a woman? You know, what does it mean to stand firm as a wife and a mom and all that kind of stuff? So if you text DEVOS to 441122, then we'll just send them to you. And you can also listen to them. She recorded them all too.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And I'm telling you, honestly, if you're a dude and you don't listen to these or read these, you're too dumb to talk to bro. Because it will. It'll also give you insight. Here, here. The problem with the corporate feminism, first of all, it's a lie. It's just a lie. It's trying to reject God's created order. That doesn't mean every woman, like, stays at home and cooks and every. That's not what the thing is about. But it elevates temporary things over eternal things, first and foremost. Secondly, where the reason is lie, it automatically puts you in competition against half of the human race. But we're supposed to complement one another, you know? I mean, can you imagine, like, if you were on a football team and the receivers were all looking at the lineman as if they were the competition? It's like, hold on. No, no, no, no. We're on the same team trying to accomplish the goal. So it's a huge problem.

[C]

Yeah. And, you know, when I was in, when Wild at Heart was becoming really popular and then captivating came out, which, yeah, the Eldridges wrote together. I remember my youth pastor at the time saying, you should read the other gender. So I remember reading Wild at Heart and being like, oh, that's why my stupid boyfriend, like, is.

[B]

Seriously, Was it drop fast or whatever?

[C]

Yeah. And so I think it's the same thing. Even with the devos, like, it's so fruitful for me to sit and listen to the sermons to understand the men in my life better. And it's the same is true. Like, yeah, I hope the men in my life read the devos to help understand the women because like you talked about in the sermon, we all create the image of God together, correct and differently, but equally. And so, yeah, I just, this series, I'm really, really excited about it and I'm just, I just can't wait to see what God does through it. I mean, even just seeing all the men stand at the end, I just, I got goosebumps, you know, like.

[B]

It'S.

[C]

Gonna change whole families and whole generations that has the ability to. It's crazy.

[D]

It was fun tonight when we, you know, we finished or you finished and you were praying over the men and I mean, Christie's next to me, she's got one hand on me, she's got the other hand on Reeves, which just wrecks me. And then I look around and all of these women are seated, these beautiful ladies, daughters of the king are seated with a hand on somebody and they're praying over all of us. It's just a powerful thing.

[B]

Well, I've said this multiple times this year. I've gotten zero emails from women at 1122 saying, what about us? Not one. It's just been nothing. But we're ready for this, the world needs this. How can we help?

[C]

Which, I mean, I'm upset that, that does surprise me. It really does surprise me because I would say I had moments coming into the year thinking, I don't know if all the women are going to catch this. And I just, I'm so encouraged that.

[B]

I think one of the things that you did, we did at the women's encounter, which was a sold out event. Right. There's 3,000 plus women here is the thing started out with, yeah, girls, we're not going to just tell you, we're not going to call you the B word all weekend. Oh, everybody's just beautiful. No, no, no. You're a wretched black hearted center. You need Jesus. Get your bibles. Here we go. And so we're just making disciples around here. So what disciple doesn't want people to be discipled? So that's all this is.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

But then tonight you also set it up. One of the first things you did was talk to the women, the ladies, the moms, the sisters, the daughters, all of them and said, well, I won't. I mean you can say what you said, but you just set it up like we need you. This involves you. I'm not speaking around you. I am speaking to you. I also need you to be praying for these guys.

[B]

No doubt.

[C]

Yeah. So one of the things you talk about in the sermon and the book is just the intentionality and what we've been talking about, how God formed men and women, and we're in Genesis. But it brought me to Psalm 139 in my mind as I was reading it, which is, you're fearfully and wonderfully made. And oftentimes that verse is prayed over, girls specifically, and, like, I don't know, it just tends to be more about girls. But I. While I was reading, I just thought, like, that's as much about boys, too, and men. Why is it important for our men and raising boys to know that truth deep in their souls that they're fearfully and wonderfully made?

[B]

Well, there's a lot. On the first level, I would say I mentioned it in the sermon, is that for years, boys have been told you, you literally are the problem. Like, the fact that you are a male is in and of itself toxic. And you're like, wow, okay, well, maybe the best thing I can do is just go sit on my couch and not do anything. Tap out, you know? And so you should never apologize for God's ideas. And it was God's idea that he would be imaged and. And his likeness would be displayed in males and female. Then also, the kind of man you are, there's no apology for that either. So, I mean, you've joked on me before about it. Rightly so. I mean, I am the. I am. As about a stereotypical Southern male. Yes, it gets. And I don't try. I'm not trying to live into anything. I just like the stuff I like. I like Harley's and football and hunting. I mean, I killed a moose yesterday. Two days ago. Like, I'm into all that stuff.

[C]

But wilderness?

[B]

Yeah. Dude, that's the toughest time I've ever been all my life. Holy moly. I was like, what am I doing? But anyway. But now I love it. There's two kinds of fun when you go out hunting. There's fun fun that's like a roller coaster. Then there's suck fun. Suck fun is always better when you remember it, when you heard it. Oh, golly. So anyway. But you might be a God that. Whatever the thing is, it's not camo and hunting and Harley's. It's music or poetry or it doesn't matter. And there's no apologies for that either. You know, I mean, David played the harp, but you ain't going, you ain't going to joke on him because he also tore lions into with his bare hands like he was a man. So there we, I will keep coming back to that. And I, I, you know, I kind of say it light heartedly. Like I like camo and hunting and fishing and guns and, and that doesn't make me a man. It makes me awesome. But not a man. Okay, but what makes you a man is, is bending your knitted Jesus and then and being who he's called you to be. And we need all those types of men that's right in this world and, and in the church, you know. Yeah. And so we're not trying to be like barstool for church. That's not what we're doing. We're just trying to call people to be godly men. So Psalm 139 has in one way it's been hijacked by women's ministries all over. However, one of the primary tools and lies of the enemy, particularly around body image, is in females. It just is. It just is. And I think that's why so many dads like me have prayed over daughters that, that would get anchored deep in their soul, that they're fearfully, wonderfully made, that God's works are wonderful. I know that full well. But, but, but those, that verse is just as true for men too.

[D]

Yeah, no, I was just fine. That's right. How many times do you think you prayed that over your daughter?

[B]

I mean for most of her life I prayed it every night over. I was just thinking when she's at the age, she's 16 right now and if some soon to be dead boy comes sniffing around my house telling lies to her, I just need the truth to be so deep in her heart she goes, that's neat. That stinks. That does not smell like the truth. I know the truth and that is not it, you know.

[C]

And so yeah, this Wes is starting to do some like memory scripture with our four year old and this is one of them. And so he starts it and then she finishes it. And so he says for I am. And then she says near fully and then there flee made like yeah, you know, it's just got it. She has no idea. But yeah, our hope is the same thing though. She doesn't actually know it. Fearfully love it or even wonderfully means. But yeah, you just hope that the truth gets somewhere in there.

[B]

Honestly man, she knows her dad's fighting for her heart. Yeah, that's it?

[C]

Yeah, anything, you dog.

[D]

My sister used to, when she was in college, she worked as a teller at a bank here in town. And she told me something that's always struck with. Struck me and stuck with me. And it. When you mentioned this verse and. And. And Reagan's remembrance of it, she knows what the truth is. And the thing that my sister Annie told me when she was working in a bank, because she was talking about they'd go to classes to study the counterfeits because she's got to know what's real and what's fake. And I said, well, there probably a lot of them. How do you know the counterfeits? She said, well, we don't know the counter. We don't study the counterfeit to know the counterfeit. We study the real to know the counterfeit.

[C]

Oh, wow, that'll preach.

[D]

And I'm sure that she. She's heard it so many times, and it's so ingrained in her heart that she knows the love of her father and how he says. Not only that he says it, but how he says it. So now when she's dating age with those young jokers wanting to come call on your door, she hears something that doesn't pass the sniff test. And I love that for her, that it's. That it's ingrained down in our heart.

[B]

Yeah. I'm also trying to ruin her, dude. When I take her on a date, I go to places that teenage boys can't afford. There ain't no doubt. I go to Three Forks. I get her a private room. I order her $100 steak.

[D]

Can you imagine being the young guy who's probably somewhere right now thinking he really wants to.

[B]

He's.

[D]

But he's thinking, I got to go.

[B]

There's a boy right now.

[C]

He's like, I'm waiting.

[B]

There's a boy right now reading this book. That's. Yeah, this is new. New information, but. Or when we took her. So when JP Hit ninth grade, I started taking him on these adventure trips that escalated doing the same thing for Reagan. Hers are very different. So we went to New York. We stayed in the fattest hotel. We overlooked Central Park. I took her to Hamilton. We went to Peter Luger's. We went to Sparks. We went to, like, when some boy takes her to wherever, she's going to be. Like, this ain't what this is. This is bush league.

[C]

Right?

[B]

Right. That's right. You better believe it. You know, it's brilliant. I mean, I open the doors. I do all the things, you know, I love it.

[C]

I love it, too. Reading the book and then you. You talked about it in the sermon, too. I really hadn't noted before or it hadn't resonated with me the same that Adam's created in the wilderness and placed in the garden, and Eve is created in the garden.

[B]

Makes a lot of sense, doesn't it? Oh, I mean, Eldridge is the first person I know of pointing that out. I feel like there's so many places. There's so many. You know how this is your whole life you've been studying things and then you had to learn it. You didn't make it up. You had to learn it from somewhere. So I feel like every time I talk about manhood, I should credit John Eldridge, jb John Bryson, who is a pastor, that. I mean, he's. He's a friend of mine. There's a bunch of, like, God gave every man a woman to love, work to enjoy, and will to obey. The first time I ever heard that, I heard him talking about it, you know, and it was so great when all this came out, because I give him credit in the beginning of the book, you know, and he texted me, oh, it's cool. It's so great. He's like, hey, dude, something like. I mean, you want to talk about humility? He's like, I'm a fan. I see you're in the men's space now. Congratulations. Some of my guys are texting me, saying, hey, this sounds like you. I'm your. You take whatever I've ever said. And. But, you know, and then Tommy Nelson, you know, song Solomon guy. You'll hear his name over the next few years. A bunch. But there's just some preachers that, you know, I don't know how you unhear some of the most formative things you ever heard about these things, but, yeah, that's a John Eldridge idea. But when you just think about it, I mean, think about. Generally, of course, there's outliers. I mean, just think about the smell of a boy and the smell of a girl. One smells like a garden and one smells like. Yeah, beef and cheese.

[D]

Right.

[B]

You know, I mean, honestly, it's just true. So it's amazing how.

[C]

And it's just like, he didn't have to include it in the Bible. I know, but no word is wasted, so.

[B]

Right.

[C]

There's something there, you know, that took to cause us to pause and just like, what I love about the word of God is no word is wasted. And, yeah, I think there's meaning to.

[B]

That and it doesn't mean that women are frilly and whatever. I mean, it's some vicious.

[C]

Yeah. The garden is so hard work.

[B]

I mean. Oh, no doubt, man. And anybody that talks about the peace of mother Nature, this has never been in the woods very long.

[C]

Right.

[B]

It will kill you just like a woman will murder you in your sleep. I'm just telling you. You know what I'm saying?

[C]

Well, yeah. And these aren't like garden boxes in your backyard. This garden is like its own type of park in a way. Like, it's bigger, right? I mean, we don't know exactly.

[B]

Walled paradise, but not. But the. The raw goods were there. But they were. But they were not subdued and cultivated, right? Yeah, it was unkept and crazy at first. And their job was to come and take what was disordered and make it orderly as a reflection of what God did with all of. In the beginning, God made the heavens and the earth. And the spirit of God was hovering over the earth, which was void and formless. And he took what was chaotic and he made order out of it. Then he makes his image bearers and he's like, you know how I did this whole thing with the whole cosmos? Here's this little tiny walled garden. Now I want you to be like me and I want you to do the same thing. I want you to join me as a co. Creator. You cannot create anything. I just want you to rearrange the raw goods as an image, a reflection. So when you build a house, it's going to look like what I did. I built you a house. Now you build you a house. So good, you know, out of an overflow of my love for myself, one God and three persons, I've created you. Not out of an overflow of you, you two who are individual with me in the middle. Together we make three. And out of overflow of my love that flows through you, you're going to make image bearers like I did. That's what this is.

[C]

Yeah. So good.

[D]

We talked about this a week or so ago and you were talking about the glory of God. The reason. The mission of God is the glory of God. The glory of God is the mission of God. The only reason he does anything is for his own glory. And that to us can. Because of our own filter, that to us can sound kind of narcissistic or like our only understanding of glory is somebody standing on a stage taking all the praise. Well, that's the problem is ours, it's not his. God's glory is an. And I Cannot. Look, I'm, I'm, I'm. This is above my pay grade. But God's glory is a manifest expression of his nature, his character, his essence. And his essence is love and joy and peace and patience and kindness and goodness and gentleness and faithfulness and self control. So somehow that expression we call glory, when experienced by us. And you see this in Moses, when Moses says to God, show me your glory. God does. What is Moses response to that thing? He made haste to fall on his face and worship. So that thing that God shares in sharing the glory with us is not because, hey, I want you to see how cool I am. He's inviting us in to experience the most perfect, complete, absolute best thing we could ever experience, which is his nature and his character, his essence, which is love. So in that thing in the garden where Adam and Eve are taking what's not subdued and cultivated, and they're doing that, they're experiencing his joy. That's what he's sharing with them. He's not giving them a yard to clean up like, hey, mow the grass. He's saying, I want you to know my joy. I want you to know what I experienced when I fashioned you that creative thing. I know you can't do that, but I'm letting you have a piece of it. So here, do that.

[C]

So good.

[B]

So the word glory literally in Hebrew means heavy or weighty. It's a hard translation.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. So the, the heaviest, the weightiest thing in the universe is the glory of God. So a ballast and a boat, like in a big old sailboat, if you pull it out of the water, there's this big long thing that sticks down, you know, it's called the ballast. And if that thing is not heavier than the rest of it, the boat flips over. So it's like the glory of the boat. And so if the ballast was like us, and it said, I don't want to make a big deal about me, so I'm not going to do my job, the whole boat falls over. It's great. So the illustration that I always use because it got me so much trouble that one time is the breastfeeding. Mom, you're not selfish. If what. When your baby cries. When you were breastfeeding your babies, nobody would look at you as you're so egotistical, to think all they need is you, because all they need is you. Like created for that. Yeah, that. That's it. And actually the has said that word, that's what it means in, in Hebrew, the loving kindness of God or steadfast love of God. So it's not God. Would he. It would be. It would be malpractice of God for him to put glory in anything else, because it would. Our ship would fall over our. We as babies would starve.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

But when we get aligned with it, this is what I'm saying. When men lead and love, well, everybody flourishes. This is about creative order. Okay? This is pre fall. You go all the way back to the beginning. And there's no doubt in my mind that as our church stepped into a year of men standing firm and acting like men. Okay, secret. We haven't even done it yet.

[C]

Right.

[B]

You know, we did a men's worship night. We did a men's Bible study. It. It directed me to what Bible passages we're going to teach. But men decided, I'm going to step into a space and I'm going to. I'm going to try to do this thing with the help of the spirit, you know, because I can't do it on my own. And I'm telling you, our whole church, and it was going good before. It's not like it wasn't going. It's going great. It just reoriented.

[C]

It really did.

[B]

All the things that you could measure are exponentially greater than they've ever been in the life of our church. Disorder does not lead to that. Order leads to that.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Like you can use your vacuum cleaner as a sledgehammer for a while, and then not only do you break the sledgehammer, but you don't. The spike doesn't go where it needs to go either. Everything stays in disorder, you know, and so when you get things rightly ordered in alignment with God's purposes, then it goes better. That's what we're trying to call men to. And again, this is different than, like, you know, I. I'm gonna make a bunch of money. I'm gonna pursue my own name. I'm gonna demand everybody do things my way because I'm the man. Like, no, you're not. That's not what a man is. A man is the one like a knight. I think that's the most beautiful image. You don't get to swing the sword until you bend your knee to the king. Now you're ready to go and be the warrior God's called you to be.

[C]

It is interesting because you've said it a couple times over the past couple weeks. You know, we're in this year of men. We've seen men really lean into it, but we haven't actually done much yet. And then you talk about the encouragement for men. So do you think it's like, men just needed the encourage or, like, the permission or the push just for you to say it a couple times?

[B]

Here's a part of what it is. So when you're a little kid, man, you just want the approval and encouragement of your dad. That's it, dude. That's it. When you. You know, when you get a little bit past puberty, that begins to shift because some girl that smells good comes walking by. Now you kind of want to win her heart. And this thing is like a family. And I don't want to elevate me too much, but I'm like the dad. Even though there's a lot of people older than me and all that, I'm the spiritual father of this place. And when the spiritual father looks at his family and says, this is what we're going to be about, people just line up, man. And they do want it all the best. You ask any good player and their favorite coaches were the ones that loved them enough to lean in and say, here's where you got to get better, but loved them there, you know, didn't just use them there. And that's just what we've done. That's all. That's what it is. That is. It is. You know, it's. It's. It's a little bit of positional authority, like, God has placed me to have that responsibility as the lead pastor or the lead shepherd of this thing, to say, flock the green pastures, and still waters are over there. Let's go. And that's where we're going.

[C]

Yeah, I love it. All right. There's a quote in the book that I love. It says the difference between men and boys is simple. Boys choose situations where they can control the outcome. Men risk failure. So I'd love to know maybe where y' all have risked failure and just why, how this applies to men, why it's important, this idea of risking failure.

[B]

All right, Part of the epidemic of godly single women we have right now is because we got a bunch of boys when it comes to dating. And the apps and all that stuff have killed the. The learned skill of failure in dating. It's a problem because dudes are afraid to fail, and they don't. Do you know how many girls you'd have to ask out, like, back in the day, you just had to just shoot your shot, man, and you don't know anything about her. You're just like, she looks pretty cool. And she's at this church. That's good enough. Let's go. Hey, you know. And you kind of figured it out. Well, the good news is you just, you know, you just. You didn't get your little baby ego bruise every time. She said, of course they're gonna say no. Look at them. And look at you. You're an ogre. But you just go for it, you know, And. And so there's just too many timid boys. That. That. That is a place. I saw Gretchen nicely in the gym. I was like, let's go. And, dude, I had some serious hurdles to overcome. And I'm like, whatever, man. You know, And.

[D]

And yeah, to quote my high school football coach, you did out punt your coverage.

[B]

Yeah, there's no doubt, bro. But I don't know why not. I just. You gotta go for it. And if it didn't work out, at least I'd know. Right? And so there's too much screen time. There's too much living life vicariously through an influencer as opposed to just living your own life. You learn a lot of that in sports.

[D]

But.

[B]

But socially we have. I. I'm not. I'm not trying to say this in any kind of disparaging sort of way. We have a socially culture because people don't know how. Boys don't know how to interact with girls, because where do you every. Everything has been filtered through this online experience that isn't real. You know, and so you're swiping and you're clicking and you're snapping and what? And. And I'm not trying to be the grumpy old dad that's, you know, like, in my day, we went to Sadie Hawkins. Whatever. I'm not doing that thing. But the risk of failure is on purpose because how else do you learn to grow up and take responsibility and be a man?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, and. And you see it a lot. Honestly, the educational system is not helping. Think about it. How few entrepreneurs are there anymore that. I mean, people, if you don't run to play, if you don't run to. Well, you got to do good in middle school so you can get the right classes in high school so you can go to college so you can get a master's so that you can just stay in the flow with the salmon and just go where they all go for what? Get some job that you hate for the rest of your life to try to live for the weekend. I mean, God bless the, you know, like the farmer and the soldier and the guy that says, you know, I'm just going to try something new and start a business and it's a real shame. And so like, I don't know, the language here gets a little, a little wonky because I believe in nothing but a sovereign God. He's never been surprised. He's never. So I don't know, it's hard to say that God took a risk. From his perspective, there are no risks. Dude, I was at the Corrie Tim Boom Museum last month and this little, this lady, not little, this late, this grown woman lady, incredible story. She was a teacher forever. An atheist gets saved and then has some kind of, I can't remember, some sickness and she couldn't continue to teach and be on her feet. So she does this Corey Timboon exhibit thing. We go to the house in the hiding place and looked at the wall where they hid the Jews from the Nazis and. Unbelievable, right? She said this line, God doesn't have problems, he has plans. How have I never heard that in my life? That was a Corey Tim boon line. God doesn't have problems, he has plans. Okay, so from God's perspective, God's never taken a risk because he knows the end before the beginning. Okay, from our perspective, what it looks like when God sends Jesus looks like the greatest risk of all time. Right. I'm gonna send my son on a rescue mission for a people that may even reject me. All right, with. From our perspective, we are supposed to be risk takers. I mean, in fact, my friend Matt Chang just wrote a book, I wrote the forward for it. And it's a business book. And the whole thing is based on risk is biblical. I mean, he looks at Moses and Abraham, you know, like this is what we're supposed to do. We have lost a lot of that. Yeah.

[C]

It's even interesting you talking about the dating thing because just the compliment of like what every girl wants is to be asked out by Prince Charming, you know, and so it's just interesting how those go together and when one's pulled apart. Now you have girls, women who are crippled with insecurity of not knowing where to meet people because they feel unnatural going on an app. And I have friends who have met amazing people on apps.

[B]

It's better.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. And could be. And so it's like this double edged problem that goes both ways with both men and women.

[B]

Okay, now I will say this. All right. So is it wrong for a girl to initiate? Not necessarily, but only initially. And then she needs to be pursued. If she is the pursuer, there's a problem.

[D]

Correct. But it is.

[B]

Okay, so first of all, boys are dumb, and sometimes they don't understand.

[D]

Sometimes we need some help.

[B]

Right.

[D]

I did.

[B]

Well, still do.

[D]

Let's be honest.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

But with Christie, I. I needed to know that she wanted me to call her. I mean, I needed help.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

So you're right. Sorry.

[B]

But girls do need to peacock a little bit.

[D]

Sure.

[B]

You know what I mean? In a very appropriate and humble.

[C]

Right, right, right.

[B]

Modest.

[C]

If no one knows you or that you're available, you can't. It's. There's no way to.

[B]

And he's not picking up on the clues because you touched his arm. And there's this very inappropriate comedian that. I can't say the name because then you'll go look it up and realize what a center I am. But he's the most funny thing ever. And one of the semi appropriate jokes.

[D]

That he tells, he closes his Bible is.

[B]

He's so funny. He's a son of a preacher, too. But anyway, he received. He. I can't remember the whole setup and the whole day. It's gonna be terrible. But he was talking about his wife, was like, well, you know, I wanted to last night. And he's like, what? She's like, when my foot touched your foot. And he's like, wait, what? That was it? And you think I rejected you because.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

You know, but so sometimes so accurate. They're, you know, if. If they're not picking up what you're putting down, ladies, you can kind of give them a clue or two. So it is okay to kind of initiate. I might be interested in you being interested in me.

[C]

That's good.

[B]

But he needs to be the pursuer.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

He needs to begin leading from the beginning, and so you can help him get that ball rolling. But. But yeah. And it's a risk. It's supposed to be a risk. The rest of your life is a risk. What the myth of the Mary of the unmarried boy is. Oh, when I get married, then I'll just know that. I know, bro. Almost every time you try to initiate intimacy, it's a risk. And what's crazy, this. This is where some of that, like, men are from Mars, women are from Venus. Some of that stuff is not helpful. Is we've been sold a bill of goods that women just want intimacy and men just want physicality. And that's the biggest live. That's such a lie. That's such a lie. We all want intimacy. Men just want it physically a lot. You know what I mean? But it every. I Mean, the. Every time a husband reaches out, there's a bit of a risk. And, you know, I've said this before, and if that hand gets slapped, that next time he's t rexing with his arm, like, and then he might just quit reaching because it's a weird thing to be right. Shut down, you know, but, dude, you better quit keeping score, and you better keep pursuing like Christ pursues you over and over and over.

[D]

One of the most beautiful gifts Christy ever gave me was early. Early and long before I was ever even published, she gave me the freedom to fail. And. And that as a priceless gift. I don't. I will never be able to repay that because she. You know, there's. There's no path to being a writer. There's not a ladder that I can. There's. It's a.

[B]

It's.

[D]

I had no idea how to zero. I still don't know how to do this. And she's so good. She's asked me so many times when, you know, Tom's been tough. She's like, honey, do you have a plan B? I'm like, I've never had a plan B. But you.

[B]

I mean, I know you've told this story before, but you got denied how many times for your first book.

[D]

My first book was rejected 86 times.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And she just had your back.

[D]

She hung in there. When the 86th rejection letter came in, she laid it on my desk, she kissed me, and she said, you are not a reject to me. I. I can't. I cannot tell you what that's worth.

[B]

So there is no Charles Martin without Chris Fact, period. I mean, like the. All the famous author, because you got a bunch of New York Times bestsellers.

[D]

And she gave me the freedom to fail, which is a priceless gift. And I've said that to. I've said that to other.

[B]

It's more than freedom, though. It's more like a foundation or. I don't know. You know, freedom can almost sound like, yeah, you go for it, and I'll be over here. This is more like a. I believe she's like the rock, and I'm gonna.

[D]

Love you whether you come back with something or not. We're still us. I'm still yours. I'm still with you. I don't know how you're going to do this, and I don't know. I. I have no idea.

[B]

She believed in you, right?

[D]

Period. Yeah. So.

[B]

I mean, it's such a similar story. When we planted this church, well, there was two. One, I've Talked about too much in the Elijah Series when I was, when I almost tapped out and materially, Gretchen could have upgraded seriously there. And then also when the idea of launching 1122, you know, if you, if you preach a service at a church that goes real good, the people that are paying attention to those things, they know. And then, I don't know, it's almost like Major League Baseball or something like the big start calling you, you know, because you can preach and they've seen it, they have evidence of it. And it would have been so much easier for us to, to just honestly go plug in at one of those big places. And. And she took the biggest risk ever. I mean, once she was listening to the voice of God, she was like, when we moved here, you and I said out loud, we think God called us to make disciples in Jacksonville. These are our people. God hadn't caused us to leave. She could have played it safe. And so she gave me. And I was like, baby, I, I think I might have to sell cars or deliver pizzas. I just need you to know this. And. But I'm okay to do it. I mean, I, I'll work, no problem. I, I just don't know if it's going to work. And having her vote of confidence just gave me all the confidence because it is crazy. I know I've talked about this a lot, but Rebecca Maxwell taught me this. All right, so Eve was created as a helper. And that's not derogatory. Everywhere else in this Old Testament, that word is used. It's God's role to Israel. Kind of a big deal. All right, so is his spirit.

[D]

He calls. I'm going to send you the helper, right?

[B]

So the, I'm telling you, the, the encouragement on the lips of a wife are gold in the heart of a man, period. And ladies, if you want to know if you're an encourager, it's not what you think or feel a great way. Just look at your last 100 texts and just count the encouragements. Do it right now before. Okay? And if you and dude, and then grade yourself, I mean, if you're an A level encourager, that's got to be 90 or more out of a hundred. And if it's all just task and if it's all think about that dude. That'll be a big old wake up call, man. I met this lady in the gym about, I don't know, she, she's come here. Her husband wouldn't come. She was like, what do I do? I've been Telling him, I said, don't tell him. Just don't do. Just don't do that. And that's like, you know, men are like puppies therapy where it's rewarded. What's a reward to him? I need you to. I need you to convince him that the more you go to church, the more he benefits. You know, whatever that is for you. I'm not going to have, like, physical intimacy conversations with these people in the gym. But. So whatever it is for him. She walks up to me today in the gym and she's like, he's listening to you every week. He's worshiping. He's like, working out to Christian music. I want him to bring him to say hey to you in line, but your line's too long. I was like, skip the line. I want to say hey to him. He's coming to the men's conference. And I was like, what'd you do? She said, I just quietly influenced. Wow, dude. That was it. So you've got some of the lines you were telling me about it, like some of the social media posts we're going to put out. Yeah, some, like starter lines for wives. I love it when you. What are some of those? Why?

[C]

Yeah, yeah. Well, and because I think sometimes if you go, gosh, especially for the people listening who are raising little kids and you just kind of get in the years in it and so you can. If you go a while, it's almost like. If you go out without, like, kissing and then you, like, go to kiss for the first time, it's kind of like, oh, like, is it now? You know, it's. You have to, like, break the ice. I think encouragement is kind of a same. A similar thing. If you haven't been encouraging, it kind of feels a little awkward maybe even to, like, send that text or to say that thing. So I think, like, committing to just, like, being brave, as silly as it sounds, to break the ice, and it's really like a pride thing. And I think affirming what your husband or whoever, maybe, whoever the man, maybe it's your dad or your son, but what they do, what you see them do, because I think a lot of it is men are such physical beings that a lot of that recognition is, like, less about what they think and feel, and it's more like, I see you do this, and I know that that is a great help to our family. I mean, honestly, tonight, and I'm not always great at this. I try to tell Wes, like, everybody knows how much I need you. That's What I always, always say to him, but. So I don't know, he's get this right? But tonight, of course, like, I get back, I go to the altar, I'm praying for him, and I just get back to my seat and I send him a text because he's at home on Thursday nights with our two girls. I get a text every Thursday night of them at Wit's Ice Cream, sitting on the chairs outside of our daughters. And yeah, so I just texted him, like, I just am so grateful for who you are, and you make everything in my life better. Like, there's just nothing that is in my life now that doesn't have to do with how you've made it better. You know? And I think about, like, the risk thing. And I think about, like, the opposite of. You both talked about how your wives were there when you were taking a risk, particularly as it came to your calling. And I think about that in regards to my calling and the risk that we took. When I said, like, I think I'm supposed to go work in ministry, it was on the day we were engaged. Like, we didn't know anything. And it was the day we were closing on a house. And I don't know anything about finances. I can't even get into my bank app. Like, it's just. I literally have no idea. I was joking the other day. I got our newsletter from church that tells you, like, you're still giving. I'm like, oh, great, we're still giving. Like, I seriously have no idea, like, what, anything with our finances. And so just the fact that he just looked at me knew that we were called to ministry. I was called to ministry. And he just said, we'll figure it out. And I'm sure in his brain he's freaking out. Cause he's gotta figure out. I just crunched all these numbers. We closed on a house today. I'm supposed to be responsible for you in six months when we get married. And so I just think about the risk that he allowed me to take and how it was a risk for him too. Cause he was responsible for our family and just how grateful I am for that. So I think it's on both sides, like either the. The man taking the risk or the responsibility that is weighty for them in supporting what their wife feels called to.

[B]

Yeah. One of the ways you see this played out, the way men and women image God differently is. And Matt Carter's gonna preach on it in Ephesians 5. You know, husbands, love your wife and wives, submit to your own Husband, as unto the Lord. Then he repeats at the end, he says, therefore, husbands, love your wives, and wives respect your husbands. And what men. Everybody wants to be loved. But honestly, my dogs love me. When I walk in, they just come say hey to me. So loving. But what we want is respect. And what most women want is to be valued. You know, is to be valued. When you say that like, you know how much I need you. That's. That's so respectful. That's where the correcting thing all the time is so dis. It feels disrespectful, you know, because it's like, oh, you don't have what it takes to even tell a good story. Let me correct that, you know?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And you see a whole bunch of young families get involved with this. Because here's how. This is a typical thing. The mom says to the dad, why won't you help? The actual answer is, because every time I try to help, you tell me I'm doing not doing it right. So which one do you want? You know what I mean? And I promise he's not trying to disappoint anybody. And then you get into this, the opposite cycle of what Ephesians 5 has called us to do, right?

[C]

Paired with sleep deprivation and complete depletion. Like, yeah, it's, it's. It's hard.

[B]

But a hundred years ago, when I would do premarital counseling, I would tell him, listen, no matter what your issue is, it comes down to this. It just comes down to love and respect. Now, there's varying degrees of it, but when you get into a ditch, it's gonna be because he feels disrespected and she feels devalued. It could be as simple as a toilet seat issue. Right? Like, you don't value me because you don't understand. You gotta. With the whole seat thing. I don't know. I've never fallen in. You could check. You know, you could do that. And then the way it's communicated could be really disrespectful. And that's all the way to infidelity. You realize that's the problem. Yeah.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

There's nothing more disrespectful for a dude than another dude touching his girl. And there's nothing more devaluing to a girl than a dude going outside of her.

[C]

Right?

[B]

Right. That. So it's just the spectrum. And everything is on that dude. That. That is how real and true the Bible is. It's not an old book. It's a timeless book. It just doesn't Tell you what happens, what always happens. But it comes all the way back to the way God created man and woman in Genesis. This is. And we're see. And we're not in competition with one another, trying to get our own way. We're mutually submitted to one another out of reverence for Christ. And. And that's not just at home, like all of us here in this church family are to love and respect one another. Men and women, brothers and sisters together in this thing.

[C]

Yep. Yeah, it's beautiful.

[D]

Can I jump back real quick to the failure thing? Our three boys are all in their mid-20s. Charlie's 28, John T's 25, Reeves 22. And as they've come out of their teens and into their 20s, one of the things we've noticed in them is they're trying to figure out, what am I going to do with the rest of my life? Is they're wrestling between the maybe something they feel passionate and gifted about versus what can I do that more guarantees me success. And I get it. I've been there. Trust me. I am not knocking the emotion. It is a valid conflict. But the thing I've tried to. I'm like, look, you're 20 something. You have your whole life ahead of you. Don't be afraid to fail. Don't. Don't. The enemy wants to whisper in your ear, wow, that's too risky. You might fail. You might look foolish. Do you know that as a major league baseball player, if you fail seven times out of ten, they put you in the hall of Fame?

[B]

No doubt you're batting.

[D]

I've just tried to. I'm like, look, don't be afraid to fail. I'm not telling you to not be wise. I'm not telling you to be haphazard. You know, none of that. But the enemy wants to get in your head, and he wants to rob you of the thing that the Lord has placed in you. And there's usually some fear that he uses as his primary weapon to cause you to think, I don't want to do that because I might fail. If that's the thought that you're currently having, you need to pray into that and press into that, because the Lord's probably leading you into that place or could be. I just. I've just. I've seen this struggle in my boys. I've known it in myself. There's a thing in us. I mean, I want to take care of Christy. She's my best friend on planet Earth. There's nothing more than. I mean, I I wake up thinking about her. I go to bed thinking about her. She's, you know, I, I, so I, I wrestle between what's the safe play and Lord. What? Because the Lord doesn't call us to safe place. He just doesn't. I don't, I don't see that in scripture. I just don't actually, the safest play is going where he is. Because if you choose to go, to go someplace other than where he's called you, that means he's not there. That's not a very safe place to be. So my, I've just put my arms around my boys lately. The last year I've done it, I've done it with all of them. And I'm like, look, don't be afraid to fail. Really, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not telling you to be unwise, but I'm telling you if there's a thing in you that's afraid to do something, you need to press into that thing.

[B]

Yeah, there was, I mean, I mentioned this, but Cheryl, we were doing this somewhere. Maybe, I don't know, but Charles was talking about. As a parent, my job is not to map out the future for my children. My job is just to help them make the next obedient step with the Lord. It changed. It, it. When I'm trying to map out my kids future, which I'm always trying to do, it just rings and I'm shifting into a different gear. You know, Reagan feels called a ministry. I know a guy that could really map out a good plan for that. And she loves the beach and we could send her, you know, and she might be feeling called to a different school. And I'm. Because of. It wasn't even like the main point of what you were saying. It was just one little kind of off comment about you having a conversation with one of your boys. And I was like, man, that, that is my job with, with these kids. You know, it's just to help it. It actually goes all the way back. Okay. So I have this garden called my house and I got to subdue and cultivate it. And you can't make anything grow. You realize that you can only create the environment whereby things grow and flourish. And I've got to create the kind of environment whereby my kids can be watered with the spirit of God planted in the foundation of the word of God with the light of the gospel on them to flourish to who God has called them to be. The Bible says raise up a child in the way they should go, not the way you would have them go. Right. And that one comment from you has changed it. Because the crazy thing is I'm really good at mapping out people's lives. Like, I literally. I do it for a living, and. But with my children, it's a different role. It's a very different role, you know?

[C]

Yep. I want to close with this quote, and then we'll pray out. This is in the book says two truths that will render the enemy powerless against our minds if we knew he loved us and that couldn't change and that we are his children. And that's pretty countercultural to what we think of as our idea of manhood. So I just love that. Pastor W, will you pray us out?

[B]

Yeah. I mean, just the opposite of what the enemy said. The enemy said, did God really say. Because he's withholding from you. So what God did say is, I love you. And Jesus is the proof. That's what the whole Bible is. And he's for us. He's not against us.

[C]

Amen.

[B]

All right. Yeah. Let's pray. Father in heaven, Lord, we thank you so much for your word. God, we thank you for this series. God, we pray for the men and the women that will be impacted by you. And Lord, I pray for the men right now. I pray that in order for us to be able to stand up and act like men, we must first bend our knee to the God, man. Jesus and God, I thank you that when we do that, your divine power has given us everything we need for everything you've called us to, we pray it in Jesus name.

[D]

Amen.

[C]

Amen. Thank you for listening to the podcast the End.

[B]

You nailed it.

[A]

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