Podcast Summary: He Calls Sinners, Not the Righteous (Matthew S4E1)

Podcast: Deepen with Pastor Joby Martin
Host: Pastor Joby Martin
Guests: Reverend Matt Carter, Pastor Jeff
Date: April 13, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode launches Season 4 with a deep dive into Matthew 9 and the story of Jesus calling Matthew—a tax collector—to follow Him. Through personal testimonies, biblical exposition, and engaging discussion, Pastors Joby Martin, Matt Carter, and Jeff unpack what it means that Jesus calls sinners, not the self-righteous. The team reflects on how the transformative power of grace shapes their stories, leadership, and church culture, highlighting the radical inclusivity of the gospel and the relentless pursuit of Christ toward the outcast.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Testimonies and the “Follow Me” Moment

Timestamps: 00:30–08:14

• The hosts share when Christ called them personally—from youth camp conversions to seasons of rebellion and return.
• Pastor Jeff recounts a vivid camp experience culminating in deep conviction and public commitment (00:30–04:47).

  "I was not in any sort of metaphysical, spiritual sense. But in my mind, I was in Galilee, 33 AD...God softened my heart. And I realized that that was for me. It counted for me if I would just receive it." — Pastor Jeff (04:05)

• Reverend Matt Carter describes accepting Christ at age 8 and the profound moment of encountering God anew through worship in college—emphasizing how he wasn’t seeking Jesus, but Jesus found him (05:01–08:14).

  "For the first time in my entire life, I sang that to the Lord. And, man, I felt in my heart a satisfaction in the deepest parts of who I am." — Reverend Matt Carter (07:53)

2. The Radical Calling of Matthew

Timestamps: 08:14–14:20

• The story of Matthew’s call as a tax collector—an ultimate outsider despised by all—serves as a metaphor for redemption.
• Discussion of the depth of ostracism associated with being a tax collector and how scandalous it was for Jesus to call someone like Matthew (11:32–13:30).

  "It would be like if the Taliban took over the United States...and then one of the people we grew up with now works for the Taliban, taking money from our family." — Reverend Matt Carter (12:40)

3. Grace, Repentance, and Self-Righteousness

Timestamps: 13:31–20:32

• Honest confessions about ongoing sin, sanctification, and the dangers of self-righteousness.
• The beatitudes (“blessed are the poor in spirit”) are unpacked, emphasizing spiritual poverty as the precondition for salvation.

  "Sin is such a big deal Jesus, the Son of God, had to die for it. And if you think you're just a little bit of a sinner, then you think you need a little bit of a savior." — Pastor Jeff (17:27)

• They stress that recognizing one’s deep need and mourning over sin is essential to experiencing real grace (18:42–20:32).

  "There’s got to be a mourning over your sin or there’s not a salvation." — Reverend Matt Carter (20:01)

4. Jesus Sees and Pursues Us Where We Are

Timestamps: 28:30–37:33

• Detailed unpacking of Matthew 9:9—what it means that “he saw a man called Matthew” (28:30–33:30).

• Exploring the Greek terms for “saw,” highlighting that Jesus fully knows, recognizes, and calls us despite knowing all our sin (28:59–33:30).

  "When he called you to himself, he not only saw all the sin that you'd already committed, he saw all the sin you would ever commit...and he called you anyway." — Reverend Matt Carter (30:52)

• God sees not just who we are but who we will become in Christ, much like a father seeing the potential in his child (35:17–37:33).

  "When Jesus looks at you, he does not see your sin. He sees what he’s going to transform you into." — Reverend Matt Carter (36:21)

5. Conviction vs. Condemnation & The Call to Confession

Timestamps: 38:37–46:54

• Drawing the distinction between conviction (from God, leading toward Him) and condemnation (from the enemy, leading to hiding).
• The gospel invites us to run to God, not from Him—with echoes of the prodigal son story (40:04–41:59).

  "The devil wants you to be defined by your scars, but Jesus says, no, no, no, you're defined by mine." — Pastor Jeff (39:35)

• Confession is central; “Protestants sometimes lose this… you don’t have to do penance, but you do need to walk in the healing Christ purchased” (42:08–45:18).

6. Mission & The Relentless Pursuit of the Lost

Timestamps: 47:01–53:05

• Christ’s pursuit is active, relentless, and personal; we’re called to join in the rescue.
• The story of the lost sheep and the response required from the church: prioritize the outcast; don’t become self-protective or exclusive (54:31–55:25).

  "Our whole mission is to now go and be a part of the rescue mission...the best way to deepen your relationship with Jesus is help people discover theirs." — Pastor Jeff (51:00)

7. Mercy, Not Sacrifice: Church Culture and Leadership

Timestamps: 55:31–67:36

• Discussion of Jesus’s command: “Go and learn what this means: I desire mercy, not sacrifice” (Matthew 9:13).
• Caution against drifting towards self-righteousness and religiosity at the expense of mercy towards outsiders, sharing stories of churches that missed this.

  "You cannot simultaneously look down your nose at anybody and fix your eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith." — Pastor Jeff (57:04)

• The Church’s mission, as embodied by The Church of Eleven22: it’s a “movement for all people.” The focus is on both reaching the lost and discipling the found (57:55–60:02).

  "If the strippers get it, surely my high school kid…you talk about seeing Matthew, like their name was not their stage name. They all had two names...None of this was not their plan. They went down this road and...they thought, I can’t undo this." — Pastor Jeff (61:54)

8. Living Out Grace and The Messiness of Church

Timestamps: 60:02–68:12

• Authentic stories of both success and failure in ministering to outsiders (notably, Pastor Jeff’s story of inviting a stripper named Sunshine to church and the fallout).
• The real work of the church is messy, filled with new and imperfect believers.

  "We got brand new baby Christians all over the place and we got lost people acting like lost people." — Pastor Jeff (54:29)

9. Closing Reflections: Level Ground at the Cross

Timestamps: 67:36–68:14

• The story ends as it began: all are equally in need, whether self-righteous deacon or prostitute.

  "Whether you're a self righteous deacon or a stripper, you're all equal at the foot of the cross in desperate need of a savior." — Reverend Matt Carter (68:12)

Notable Quotes (with Timestamps)

• “If you think you're just a little bit of a sinner, then you think you need a little bit of a savior.” — Pastor Jeff (17:27)
• “He was not looking for him. He found me. That’s ultimately the story of Matthew.” — Reverend Matt Carter (08:14)
• “He didn’t just die for you, he died instead of you.” — Pastor Jeff (14:18)
• “He knows all those things and chooses you in spite of it, which is so comforting.” — Reverend Matt Carter (38:38)
• “The fundamental difference to keep you out of the seat of the Pharisee is: it’s not what are you doing, it’s what can I sacrifice for you?” — Pastor Jeff (66:56)
• “There’s no credibility benefit Matthew brought to the Kingdom of God that would merit Jesus calling him. That’s grace.” — Reverend Matt Carter (26:30)

Important Timestamps

• [00:30] Hosts share their conversion stories
• [09:03] Comparing personal stories with Matthew’s outsider status
• [18:42] Discussing the necessity of mourning over sin
• [28:30] Deep dive on “he saw a man called Matthew”—the Greek nuance
• [36:21] Jesus sees not our shame but our destiny in Him
• [39:35] Conviction vs. condemnation; Carfax analogy
• [51:00] The call to join the rescue mission and how it shapes church culture
• [61:54] Story of inviting a stripper to church; lessons in inclusivity
• [68:12] Final reflection: all are equal at the cross

Themes & Tone

• Honest and vulnerable—hosts share personal stories of brokenness and grace.
• Biblically grounded—deep exegesis and Greek word studies illuminate the text.
• Challenging—call to self-examination for leaders and laity alike.
• Inclusive and invitational—consistent message that no one is beyond Christ’s call.
• Practical—implications for leadership, church culture, and personal discipleship.

Conclusion

This conversation is both a deep theological dive and a personal invitation: Jesus pursues sinners, not the self-sufficient, and the Church must reflect that radical grace. Whether you identify as an outsider, an insider, or somewhere between, this episode will encourage you to see the gospel as both a challenge to self-righteousness and a comfort to the broken. The call is to run toward Jesus—and then join Him in the pursuit of others, knowing that He sees, knows, and calls us still.