Hope, Fear & the Power of Worship - S23E1

Summary

Deepen with Pastor Joby Martin

Episode Summary: "Hope, Fear & the Power of Worship" (S23E1)

Date: September 15, 2025
Host: Pastor Joby Martin
Guests: Pastor Britt, Worship Leader Mitch Bowman, and others
Theme: Exploring how worship shapes hope, confronts fear, and serves as spiritual warfare, with a particular emphasis on the power of hymns across generations.

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Episode Overview

Kicking off a new series, Pastor Joby Martin and his team take a deep dive into the theology and practice of worship—framing it not merely as music or a mood but as an act of war against spiritual darkness, a source of unity across generations, and an antidote to fear. This episode centers on the hymn “Because He Lives,” using it as a lens to discuss how worship anchors hope, confronts societal challenges, and connects believers to the promises of Christ.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Spiritual War of Worship

Timestamps: 02:49 – 08:32

• Worship is described as more than singing—it's a battle against spiritual forces.
• Historical and biblical roots are explored, noting Lucifer’s fall was over worship and idolatry (05:12).
• Worship isn’t about personal preference or style, but about declaring God’s worth and resisting spiritual opposition.

Quote:

“Whenever the people of God gather together and aim their affections and attention and voices at proclaiming worth to God, that's what worship is... you are saying to the devil of hell, ‘you can go back to hell because there’s only one seat on the throne, and you’re not on it. Jesus is.’”
– Pastor Joby Martin (06:02)

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2. Multi-Generational, Intercultural Power of Worship

Timestamps: 09:08 – 13:00, 23:21 – 25:48

• Discusses singing as a universal human expression, transcending culture and even the ability to hear (“there is a song in Everybody, no doubt, that is trying to connect to the song about the somebody”—25:15).
• Worship historically and biblically passes faith from one generation to the next (Psalm 145).
• Modern worship “wars” are seen as divisive, but true worship should unite believers.

Quote:

“It takes all generations that will ever live on this earth in order to ascribe one percent... of what God is actually worth. That everyone who’s ever lived, if they were all declaring God’s worth, it would still be not enough.”
– Pastor Britt (11:33)

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3. The Dangers and Discipline of Mainstream Worship

Timestamps: 13:00 – 17:55

• Concerns expressed about worship becoming “background noise” or mere entertainment.
• The panel discusses the balance between accessibility of worship music and safeguarding its sacredness.
• Caution against treating sacred things as common.

Quote:

“Worship is serious. It's not supposed to just be casual... You don’t ever want to treat something that's sacred as common.”
– Pastor Joby Martin (17:17)

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4. The Uniqueness of Singing as Worship

Timestamps: 19:39 – 22:25

• Singing is acknowledged as a universal act, present in every culture and linked to life’s most significant moments.
• Music and rhythm are viewed as rooted in creation itself, connecting deeply to the human soul.

Quote:

“There’s no culture ever that’s ever been discovered that didn’t sing ... It’s most commonly associated with the most important things in that culture.”
– Pastor Britt (21:57)

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5. Worship, Masculinity, and Church Culture

Timestamps: 25:48 – 29:08

• Addresses how certain worship lyrics and styles may alienate men; intentional effort at Church of Eleven22 to ensure music is both doctrinally strong and accessible.
• Encouragement for men to fully participate, regardless of style or discomfort.

Quote:

“We sing hard songs. We sing war songs. … Still, that cannot be an excuse [not to participate]... If you’re a Georgia fan, you sing ‘Glory, glory to old Georgia.’ So you can shut your hole, man. I’ve seen you sing the songs, right? Like, it’s in there. You just gotta get it aimed at the right thing.”
– Pastor Joby Martin (22:48, 27:34)

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6. The Role of Hymns and Doctrine

Timestamps: 29:08 – 36:34

• Discussion on the resurgence of hymns and timeless, doctrine-rich worship, especially among younger generations.
• Highlight the importance of singing not just contemporary hits but also songs that are theologically substantial and connect believers to church history.

Quote:

“The more we can sing right and sound doctrine, not just things that go good with four on the floor... The more we can sing that, the more and more the younger generation comes alive and the more and more war anthem it is, not just repetitive, but... a declaration of war and victory.”
– Pastor Britt (33:15)

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7. Cultural Shifts and the Power of Hope

Timestamps: 37:33 – 44:55

• Explores how historical cycles of turmoil (e.g., 1968, the Jesus Movement) parallel today’s challenges.
• “Because He Lives” is used to encourage faith and hope for the present and future.
• The enduring truth: because Christ conquered death, believers have hope to face uncertain times and raise the next generation in faith.

Quote:

“If I look to the future and I think that the circumstances are in charge, I could see why you would be afraid. But I can have this calm assurance... because when I look to the future, I see a resurrected Christ.”
– Pastor Joby Martin (40:08)

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8. Faith, Fear, and Worship as an Antidote

Timestamps: 52:07 – 54:06

• Digging into the chorus “because He lives, all fear is gone” and the scriptural truth that perfect love (found in Jesus) casts out fear.
• Worship redirects focus from circumstances and fear to the sovereignty and love of God.

Quote:

“The difference between faith and fear is looking into the future, and whoever you think is holding it in his hands will either stoke your fear or your faith.”
– Pastor Joby Martin (53:36)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the nature of worship:
  “Worship is a prescribed activity of the church... and it’s not about your own personal preference.”
  – Pastor Joby Martin (04:54)

• On music across all cultures:
  “There is a song in everybody, no doubt, that is trying to connect to the song about the somebody.”
  – Pastor Britt (25:15)

• On the balance of accessibility and sacredness:
  “You don’t ever want to treat something that’s sacred as common... Like, you wouldn’t use pages from your Bible [to prop up a table].”
  – Pastor Joby Martin (17:29)

• On generational transmission:
  “Hymns are one way we do that. It’s like we’re passing down the truth of God’s Word to one generation after another.”
  – Mitch Bowman (11:28)

• On the cultural moment:
  “New day, same demons... we have a gospel that declares the exact opposite [of defeat].”
  – Pastor Joby Martin & Pastor Britt (42:33, 34:07)

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Resources & Recommended Worship Music

Timestamps: 44:55 – 51:57

• Playlists with favorite worship songs (Traditional hymns, Chris Tomlin, Josh Baldwin, Shane & Shane, AI-generated psalms, etc.).
• Special mentions: Hillsong United “Of Dirt and Grace,” Shane & Shane’s Psalms albums, Taya’s new record, and the “Every Moment Holy” liturgy books.
• Discussion on avoiding “policing” worship music solely by denominational or artist origin.

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Closing Reflections

The conversational deep-dive concludes with a call to be “worshipers in spirit and in truth” (John 4:24), referencing Jesus’ desire for worshipers rather than simply worship events or styles.

Closing Prayer:

“Father, that’s our prayer—may we be a people that worship You in spirit and in truth.”
(56:07)

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Key Segment Timestamps

| Segment | Timestamp | |------------------------------------|:----------:| | Welcome and Series Kickoff | 00:17–02:49| | Worship as Spiritual Warfare | 02:49–08:32| | Generational Power of Worship | 09:08–13:00| | Sacredness vs. Accessibility | 13:00–17:55| | Uniqueness of Singing | 19:39–22:25| | Worship & Masculinity | 25:48–29:08| | Role of Hymns & Doctrine | 29:08–36:34| | Worship & Cultural Change | 37:33–44:55| | Worship, Faith, and Fear | 52:07–54:06| | Closing Reflections | 56:07–57:05|

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Takeaway

This episode challenges listeners to see worship as a vital, active, and communal practice—one that proclaims hope, battles fear, and unites generations by anchoring life in the finished work of Christ.

“Worship is war. But because He lives, all fear is gone.”

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to Deepen with Pastor Joby Martin. The Church of 1122 is a movement for all people to discover and deepen a relationship with Jesus Christ. And we're praying this message helps you deepen your relationship with him. Now let's dive in.

[B]

All right, we got a few things to do here. New series kicking off. We just finished an amazing couple of days. We had about 1500. How many people was it?

[C]

1200, they'll call it.

[B]

Yeah, Pastor Mass.

[D]

There you go.

[C]

Yeah, we're like that 5 million.

[B]

Yeah. Church.

[C]

1500 is good.

[B]

Church leaders all over the world really came in and we were just trying to be an encouragement to them. And we're just celebrating all that God did and hopefully what he's going to continue to do. We're heading into saturated. I mean, typically this is after the service, but because of the schedule, it hadn't even happened yet. So with more to come, right?

[C]

Yeah. So just be clear. At 11am today, 1500 church leaders left. It is now. What time is it?

[E]

2:45.

[C]

2:30 ish. 2:45 ish. And saturated starts in less than three and a half. It's three and a half hours.

[D]

Thank God. I have a shower in my office. Literally. I have a duffel bag with some jeans and fresh drawers in them.

[C]

We thought in between, let's just saturate a T shirt.

[D]

Willie Robertson gets here at 5, and I'll be hosting him.

[B]

You know, I didn't think about that.

[D]

Next week we'll decide if this was a good idea to do it all in week. Right now it feels pretty good.

[C]

So great.

[E]

Yeah.

[D]

Yeah, I like it.

[B]

I did think about the international folks. And then your illustration with the pants, you know, because to some people in.

[D]

Scott, okay, So a dude from Scotland comes up who knows Pastor Athel, okay. And they are like church partners. They planted on the other side of the city from each other, but together, whatever. And I told him. I was like, dude, I was in Scotland telling that story about, you know, when you die, your people, your kids are gonna go through your pants. In Scotland, pants means panties. And what's really funny is that before I get up to preach, Pastor Athel comes to me and says, pastor, I know you're funny. I believe you're funny. Everybody thinks you're funny. In Scotland, people don't laugh. So don't be discouraged when you're preaching on stage. They love it. Their face is not going to say they love it. And I'm like, okay, whatever. And I get up there and I'm doing And I'm like, death rate in Scotland's 100%, and you're gonna die, and your kids are gonna be holding up. They're hearing panics. They start laughing. And in my mind, I'm like, I got the hand of God on me, man. You can't tell me. I have no idea. They're laughing at me, not with me. I walk off stage, I get done, and an expat's like, hey, bro, let me tell you what just happened. Awesome.

[C]

I love it. Scottish they always ask, how busy is your church?

[D]

How busy? Busy. It's pretty busy. It's real busy this week.

[B]

Pretty busy. Yeah. This week especially.

[D]

Awesome. Now we're into war, baby. Worship is war.

[B]

Also want to welcome Mitch Bowman. Thank you, fellow pastor. Worship leader. So we have some worship folks joining us for this series.

[D]

How do I get one of these hats A hymns?

[E]

I'll get you one right after.

[D]

Oh, let's go.

[E]

Got you covered.

[D]

Praise be.

[E]

Yeah, man.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

We got a. A new worship album all about the new old.

[C]

I'd like to know how to get what's under the hat, I. E. Hair. Oh, man, I could get some hair.

[E]

I think. I think your son, I'm told he called it the Mississippi Mud Flap.

[D]

He did.

[E]

I was like, that's appropriate. I'll take.

[B]

So, Pastor Joby, we are in a year where we're calling men to stand firm and act like men. And one of the things that I think of when I think about men is sec. Is first Timothy 2.

[D]

8.

[B]

I desire in a place that the men should pray, lifting holy hands. And so that's really the reason why in the sanctuary. Exactly. That's why I chose to do this series. So tell us a little bit about that.

[D]

Yeah, man. We have a worshiping church, but a part of the reason we have a worshiping church is because we have discipled people towards that.

[B]

That's true.

[D]

And worship is a prescribed activity of the church. Old Testament and New Testament, the people of God get together. And worship is not limited to singing, but it definitely includes when the people of God get together to make much of God singing the same words melodically together. And to all of those naysayers out there, which there are many, shut up. I'm just telling you, there's all these people that were like, oh, here's why I don't do it, man. How about just grow a pair, Shut up. Be a grown man, lift your hands in the sanctuary and be about God's business. That's what I'm calling us. To and because it's not about your own personal preference. And the worship style that you go to worship is war. And we will walk through. I've done this several times before, but if you take a few passages from Job, from Isaiah, from Ezekiel, put these things together, and what Jesus says in Luke, Jesus is like, dude, I remember the day that the angel of light got cast out like a lightning bolt. And you're like, what happened? Well, the Bible tells us what happened. That Lucifer, which I think is the Latin translation of the Greek, the Septuagint for the Hebrew word daystar is Lucifer.

[B]

Okay?

[D]

So you got to go about three hops over in translations to get the word Lucifer, that Lucifer was created as a perfect angelic being. And the description that you get in Ezekiel sounds like he's either made of gems or he's wearing gems. You know, it's kind of hard to describe angelic beings, right? Heavenly hosts. And his appendages are worship instruments. And his job is to lead the angelic host in the worship of God. But he's got no source of light because God is light, as we find out in the Book of Revelation, right? So God is the source of light. And his job is to reflect and reflect, refract the light of God to the angelic host, and they give God praise. Which, by the way, Mr. Worship Pastor, is a really good job description of your job.

[E]

100%.

[D]

You know what I mean? It ain't about you.

[E]

That's right.

[D]

One day, apparently, he gets tired of being looked through. He wants to be looked to. And he says five different I statements. I'm going to climb the hill. I'm going to sit on that throne. I, I, I, I. And God does not play well with idolatry. And he says, not on my watch. And cast them to hell. So really cast them to the earth to rule and reign until eventually he's going to cast them into the lake of fire forever and ever and ever. So when I say worship is war, just because. Just because the battle says that our. Our battle is not against flesh and blood. Just because there's. Our warfare is primarily spiritual, it doesn't mean that it's not actual. We have an actual enemy, and this is an actual war. Whenever the people of God gather together and aim their affections and attention and voices at proclaiming worth to God, that's what worship is used. It used to be worth ship, but it's hard to say. Sounds like they have a lisp. And when you say you are worth it, two things are happening Simultaneously, first and foremost, all you people like, well, I didn't like that song, dude, perfect. That's the perfect song to worship to because you're automatically saying, I'm not on the throne. Nobody's singing to me. Secondly, what you're saying to the devil of hell is you can go back to hell because there's only one seat on the throne and you're not on it. Jesus is. And then what really pisses the devil off, the reason he hates us so bad, honestly, he kind of doesn't care about us. Except that the seat that he wanted to sit in in eternity because of the blood of Jesus has actually been reserved for us. The children of God are seated with Christ at the right hand of God. And he's like, you son of a gun. You were sitting. You get. How did you get to sit in the seat that I deserved? And every time we worship, it's just like, hate it for you. It helps dampen the whispers of the enemy. It helps dampen the. The lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, the pride of life. It helps dampen the temptations of this world when we worship. And so now, bro, whatever style blesses God and helps stir your affection. So praise God for all the different kinds of styles. This is not a style thing.

[B]

I was at a conference one time and the guy said, hey, if you have your phone, like, turn your flashlight on. And then everybody was like, shining them in different directions. And then he said, now I'll point them at the same place. And it seriously looked like a spotlight, you know, like all the little lights together. And so sometimes I think about that when I think about, like, all the people aiming. Aiming together, because there is something special about a group, a group doing it together. Is there anything else you'd say, Pastor Britt, about the way that the limitations of the English language don't help us we think about worship?

[C]

No, I mean, I think that one of the things we'll talk about when we're doing how great thou art, which is a couple of weeks from now, Y We're doing how great thou art. I think one of the thing that the primary text we're going to look at is like Psalm 145. So I'll have plenty to say about it then. And I don't want the cat too far out of the bag. But the whole thing is that God is greater than more worth anything that we could ever ascribe or energy. And yet he has still given us the capacity to somehow connect our spirit and our emotions. And our thoughts to the most satisfying, the most content, giving the. The most powerful reality that there ever could be. We can be connected to that thing, but it takes with us, it takes putting ourselves in the position and willfully choosing to connect our emotions and our minds and our thoughts to that. And that's so much of what worship is, is like Pastor Jody Joby says, is we're just reminding all of our senses and all of our reality.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

That he is worth it. And that's why in the song, because he lives when we're talking about this way. One of the best lines in the song is, and the life is worth the living.

[E]

That's it.

[C]

And all of this is worth it, not because it terminates on itself. All of this is worth it, is because it's for someone else who is worthy of it.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

And I just want to push all of that up to him.

[E]

So I love that you're going Psalm 145, too. I was looking at that today, thinking about this, because when I think about the hymns, you know, we just got done making this record, and we're going to be going through these week in, week out. We're playing them in services. I grew up singing hymns. I grew up singing acapella, you know.

[C]

Yeah, you grew up in a tradition where instruments weren't allowed.

[E]

Church of Christ, man. You're going straight to hell if you use them instruments, man. That's the devil's work, you know, so, you know, But. But I mean, still, even though there's a lot of things I had to work through kind of coming out of that tradition, there's still a whole lot of beauty in hearing people sing in three and four part harmony. I mean, I can still hear like, deceased family members voices, like when I sing some of these songs, man, because it just marked me, you know. But Psalm 145, I mean. Yeah, for sure. The great is the Lord, and greatly to be praised. His greatness is unsearchable. But then when I think about hymns, I think about one generation shall commend your works to another. And hymns are one way we do that.

[D]

Right.

[E]

It's like we're passing down that. The truth of God's word, you know, to one generation after another.

[C]

So, yeah, I'm going to hammer that. And the thing about that is what David is saying there, I think a little unbeknownst to David, but the reality of it is, is that it takes all generations that will ever live on this earth in order to ascribe 1%, if even that of the, of what God is actually worth.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

That everyone who's ever lived, if they were all declaring God's worth, it would still be.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Not enough. So it takes all the generations doing it not just for one lifetime, for all of eternity. That's how much God is actually worth.

[E]

It's interesting too, man, like the multi generational thing because that has been such a divisive like worship in the church throughout the last several years. Right. The worship wars, the style wars, all that stuff, how we're going to do it. It's been a tool for division that the Enemy's used to like separate people and like the whole goal is that it would bring people together in unity. Right. So it's just a, it's kind of a mind screen thinking about it from like the way that the Enemy's twisted that thing and in our church has created this division.

[D]

Well, everything God creates, the enemy corrupts.

[E]

Right.

[D]

Everything God creates, the enemy corrupt.

[C]

Well, can I, Can I ask a question about worship? I may. We're only like 12 minutes in here, so I may be just hijacking this thing and I don't mean to. My intent is not to be critical. It's not to be. I don't even have my thoughts fully formed on this. However, as a pastor in the local church that thinks about these kind of things all the time. I'm not afraid, I'm not worried. I do have a little like angst and concern about how mainstream worship, I say in quotations, has become. And I think we've done it a great disservice by creating entire rate. I don't want to say that I have thoughts. I think we may have done it or we may be in choppy waters in regards to doing it at a disservice for sure, by it playing. You know, radio stations are completely dedicated to it. Every time you open your Spotify or your itunes, it's like a new worship place playlist or a new. And. And it's like products, man, you know, and now people are not everybody. But a lot of times what happens in the songwriter world is you're right, trying to write songs that you think people will sing, no doubt, versus write songs that are coming out of your bones that tell a story. And, and so that's why I look at guys like Stephen Wilson Jr. Who, and this is some preference, some whatever, but when I listen to him.

[B]

Not a worship leader, by the way.

[C]

Not a worship leader. No, he's not.

[E]

Right.

[C]

But the, the, the testimony he's giving of Life is just coming out of his bones, right? And so I'm at the point now where I'm like, I think I kind of. I mean, I don't know that I'm in a position to do this, but as far as it is up to me, I think I'm going to start doing something about it. I just don't know exactly what it is because it makes me very. I just don't. I just don't. It can't. This thing can't be numb, for sure. We just can't get numb.

[E]

Yep.

[C]

You know, so the first time I.

[D]

Really considered it, I was hanging out with Jeff Moore of Jeff Moore in the Distance for all you 90s Christian people. And he used to tour with Stephen Curtis Chapman, that's his best buddy, and Michael W. Smith, and they were, you know, like Jars of Clay and Audio Adrenaline and, you know, all the people, all the greats. And it all shifted when worship music became mainstream. So in his day, in that day, the contemporary Christian music people, they were. It was. It was God glorifying entertainment. They would probably use that kind of word. I know. I know Rich Mullins would, right? And it was great. And they. They would sell out stadiums and youth groups and, you know, all of us would go, and it was awesome, but it wasn't. But then worship music was aimed at God, for the glorification of God. Okay. So then one night, I'm with Jeff Moore, who I love, he's one of my best buddies on the planet. We're sitting around a campfire, and he was talking about how bad it was when worship music just became mainstream. I was like, you're just mad because you were on the back end of your run. And, you know, that's. That was my first instinct. And then I began to think about it, and he. He was like, it shouldn't just be casual background if you're peeing at Chick Fil A. And the background music is instrumental music of oh, Praise the Name. That might not be good. Okay, now there's Lights and Shadows. I do think the accessibility to it is great. It's not like the only time you. You have to go to church on a Sunday in order to be able to do it, because. So after I began to think about it in my own life, I do reserve my. The worship music that I'm into to particular times in my life on purpose, you know, because I don't want it to just be background noise. I want. Now sometimes it. Like, I will. Every time I write, when I write sermons, I don't listen to my regular country stuff I write. What I listen to right now is psalms and the blues, which I think is all AI. It is, but it's the greatest thing I've ever heard in my whole life.

[C]

It's pretty solid.

[D]

If you know your Bible good. You just like a voice and a guitar. It's hard to beat because, you know all the Bible verses that they're just making rhyme. And I'm like, holy Mo. So I put that. There's a couple of particular worship albums I put on. It kind of gets my mind going in the direction I need it to go to work on my sermons, you know? But I think a part of what you're saying is worship is serious.

[C]

Serious.

[D]

It's not supposed to just be casual. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

And that. That's why I would pay attention to that. Again, it's lights and shadows. So the good news is when we sing new songs here, a bunch of people already know it because they have accessibility to it.

[C]

Cool.

[D]

But you don't ever want to treat something that's sacred as common, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Like. Like, you wouldn't use pages from your Bible. You wouldn't tear them out and, like, balance out the table. He'd be like, I don't think you should do that. Well, you should. I don't think you should just treat what is sacred like worshiping God. Like, you should put some thought behind it, you know, I think maybe.

[C]

Don't you have a doctorate in, like, worship liturgy?

[B]

I didn't finish it. I have a couple of classes in it.

[E]

But thanks for, you know, making.

[B]

Thanks for pointing that out.

[D]

Good job.

[B]

I had a child. So far, have not gotten back to.

[D]

It, so was it worth it? I think it's the real question and a job.

[B]

I think one of the biggest dangers of it is just linguistic, because even in Christian church subculture, what do we call guys like, you're a worship leader, or we're now going to go into worship. And what we mean is we're going to sing. And it does. To your point, Pastor Dobie, it's not that. That's not what that is, but it could create a category in people's mind where other things are. Not that that really should be, because it's anything that puts God first. As you preached on today, it's one.

[C]

Of the things I love about the Every moment Holy.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Liturgy books. Yeah. Love those. Is that, to me, that's a. It's a great way to separate worship as we define it through song and daily practices. Of worship and reciting prayers and reciting. I don't know, date. What are the daily offices. Offices or whatever the word you would want to use. That's what I love about it. Because if you, if you started trying to sing the. Some of the liturgies in every moment.

[E]

Holy, talking about like changing diapers.

[C]

Yeah. It'd be like the. The liturgy of my coffee.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

But it is helpful that we have over our coffee thing, this prayer every day that reminds me that everything that's about to happen to fill up this cup of coffee came through the good hands of my good dad.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

And that even the smallest details bel to him.

[E]

Romans 12.

[C]

But it separates it from some of the serious nature of the war side of worship. Because the, the idea of worship music, God though it is soothing to the soul and comforting in the sense that the Holy Spirit is comforting. That was not the primary intent, I don't think when God gave us sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. You know what I mean?

[D]

And I, I agree with everything you're saying, but what I don't want to do is give the non singing people the excuse that they don't have to sing.

[C]

No, of course.

[D]

But people do that.

[C]

I know.

[D]

You know what I mean. It's the same people like everything's missions and everything's a missionary. Shut up. You ain't share the gospel in your whole life.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[D]

So you're just excusing yourself of why you don't have to do the. Craig, that's not what we're talking about.

[B]

Right.

[D]

So I 100% agree. Our worship. If you think about our people that lead worship in song, the, the amount of effort y' all go through to use the right words, getting in and out of the singing part. I hear it all the time. We pay very close attention to it. We monitor it. You're like, thanks for worshiping with us through song. We say that stuff. Now. We're going to continue to worship God by studying the Bible. You know, we, we are very particular about that stuff. But you know what you don't want to do is be like, well, everything is worship. There is something unique.

[B]

Yes.

[D]

About music and singing.

[C]

There is.

[D]

That is beyond 100. I don't even if you don't believe there's a God, everybody, there's something. I think you could trace it all the back, all the way back to Genesis 1 and 2. We were created in rhythm. Like, why did God take six days? He could have just said everything and it would have went all it. I mean, he Did. There's rhythm. We have heartbeats. There's seasons. There's something. A. Part of the reason I think, think music has been so instrumental, pardon the pun, to the church, is because it's in rhythm with the heartbeat of God and. And God's people. I mean, bro, like from God's chosen people, way back in Israel until today, God's people sing.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

It's a wonderful way to remember things. That's very, very important. It's also. It gets into places in the nooks and crannies of your soul. That mere wor camp.

[B]

Did you know that there's no culture ever that's ever been discovered that didn't sing? And that it was. It's most commonly associated with the most important things in that culture. So when somebody dies, there's a lament song. If there's a wedding, we. Or somebody has a baby, there's a celebration. It's a song. There's never. Yeah, exactly. Water, war drums. You know.

[D]

You know, I think it's cool. We were watching. Sorry, we were.

[C]

What?

[D]

We were. Oh, JP and I were watching UFC fights. That's what we do. And they were just hosted in France, this last one. And they do some French version of, you know, And Gretchen walks in, she's like, well, you can tell this is international. They're doing that dumb soccer song, you know? And JP was like, dude, isn't it cool that every country has their thing?

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Because some French guy was fighting a Brazilian, and you see this, like, in soccer matches. I mean, part of the reason it's so popular all over the place is because it unifies a group of people around the culture like crazy. And they've got their songs, man. It's a. It's a thing. Yeah. And here's the thing. The dude decided, well, I don't even really understand. I'm telling you, if you're a Georgia fan, you sing Glory, glory to old Georgia. So you can shut your hole, man. I've seen you sing the songs, right? Like, it's in there. You just got to get it aimed at. At the right thing. Yeah.

[C]

One of the coolest things I've ever seen in my life IS Years ago, 2010, the earthquake hit Haiti, and I spent a lot of time down there after the earthquake. And one of the things that happened was that people who were marginalized were very marginalized. I mean, it was. It was a war zone. It was awful. And a lot of people in majority world context, when they're born, if they get ear infections or Whatever, they just go deaf. There's no medicine. There's nobody. So there's a lot of deaf people hard of hearing, hearing impaired. I'm not trying to offend anybody with whatever word I'm using, but they can't hear. And so we were able to work with a couple of organizations and help build community for this population of people who couldn't hear and build all these little houses and be able to move some work in. This took a long time, you know, a couple years to get all done. It's called Leveque. It's cool. Cool spot. And they wanted to have a church because every healthy community has a church. And so we built a church for people who were hearing impaired and. And. But the main thing that they were worried about was how the sun came in the building so that they could be sure to see each other during their singing time. And their singing time is them making whatever sounds they can make. But it's mostly signing and using their. Using body language. And after we get all this done, I'm attend one of the worship services there. And I'm watching all this go down, and the sun's coming in just right, and it's hitting all these beautiful people who've just been through absolute hell.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

And I'm just like, oh, my God. Crying. No, it's like the cool to the point of every culture, everybody. There is a song in Everybody, no doubt, that is trying to connect to the song about the somebody.

[D]

And I'll bet it didn't actually sound good. You know what I mean? Like, no, but whatever the word is phonetically or whatever the word is, it had.

[C]

It had to be some kind of, like, like, tongues and acts like in Pentecost, but, like, what's coming out and what's being heard.

[D]

That's what I'm saying. Totally different, but in the ear of the heavenly Father.

[C]

Yeah. Just beauty.

[E]

But it's same as, like, the groanings too deep for words.

[D]

Right.

[E]

The very spirit, like, praying on our behalf. Like, that's. That sounds painful, right? You know what I mean? The sound of that sounds painful, but what a beautiful thing. When we get to that place, we're just like, I have no words, but I want to be in full submission.

[D]

Now, one of the things we do consider here, very much so. And our. Our worship team does a great job of this. I will admit to the naysayers out there that in the past few years, many churches have not taken grown men into account when it comes to the singing part of worship in church. And there's no doubt that there are some lyrics out there that seem a little canned to a regular dude. Be like, well, that's kind of weird to sing about a man. You know, there are. And we very much take into account men worshiping. We sing hard songs. We sing war songs. We sing fight songs. We sing like, Hard Fought. Hallelujah is not necessarily, like. Even when I brought it up, I was like, we're singing it, and somebody's like, it's not very singable. Okay, it is. I pro. Have you been to a country concert? Everybody sings all the. I mean, you sing every word, you know, and so I don't. Don't worry about it. But it's a freaking song you can like. Oh. And sing. And so. But that. That still cannot be an excuse. Right.

[C]

Much of that, don't you think, is about who you choose to do the singing?

[D]

A lot of it is. A lot of. It's the key. A lot of it is like, yeah, yeah.

[C]

And so, I mean, it should.

[D]

It should sound like where you're from. We live in the home of Leonard Skynyrd. They were born here. If you wonder why our song sounds a little. Our singing sounds a little Skynyrdish, It's. It's because this is where we are. And so if you're in downtown Atlanta, it might sound a little different, and if you're in Oregon, it might sound a little different.

[C]

But.

[D]

But that. That's our sound here, you know? And. But I don't. I just don't want people to tap out because I will also say, like. Like that song, what a beautiful name. I. I'm as man as it gets. I have no problem whatsoever singing with one of our girls, leading about the beautiful name of Jesus, of course. Yeah, it bothers me none. And so the. The people that do. It's just revealing your immaturity. I mean, just. Okay, cool. You're a white belt in worship, all right? You got a lot of growing to do. Or when we sing songs about. Yeah. I mean, in the Bible, John, who, by the way, is a tough dude. He gets boiled, and he wouldn't die. So I don't know how tough you think you are, but this brother can get boiled and be like, I got some more books to write. Okay. And he's the one that makes a point that he nuzzles his head upon the bosom of his Lord. Well, that's kind of, you know, not. Doesn't sound like the most manly thing, but it is a tender moment with him and his savior. It's not a non manly thing. And so we just want to be really, really careful about leading with our preferences and style over leading with what blesses God. And it made me think about that just because of what you're talking about. I'm sure these deaf people, they could have thought, well what I'm about to sing isn't. Doesn't sound right so maybe I shouldn't. And, and God is like, just bring it, you know, just bring it with a pure heart.

[C]

Yeah, well, that's one of the things I love about you choosing hymns. Older songs, some of these hundreds and hundreds of years older, some of them decades and decades, what would traditionally be known as hymns as kind of the anchor songs of each weekend and that we did this record for, of our version of recording the hymns. We're not trying to make it more modern, we're not trying to make them more cool. We're just doing our version of them, you know, and I love that because one, it connects us to the history that we're a part of. Two, practically, we're not a hymns church, if you would think. We're not traditional in that sense. We love the hymns, we appreciate the hymns. We no shade, no knock on all different kinds of styles and, and they're very formative to us. But you could walk in here many weeks in a row and not hear us play a hundreds of year old hymns. That's what I love about this series is that we're focusing on something as a means of worship is war. We're focusing on these songs to as the launchpad off of them that have been so formative to the war that the Protestant Christian church has been waging for 500 years since the Reformation, you know. And so I just love the history of it all, the connectivity of it all.

[E]

And there's something to it, man, like as a worship leader standing on a platform 45 times a year, whatever it ends up being, it's just different when we sing those songs. It just is. And it's not just my perspective and my, you know, my upbringing with that particular, you know, type of song, but it's just, it does something to people's hearts. In the room, I was talking to a buddy of mine, Judd Harris, he leads convocation at Liberty University, like weekend like three times a week, right. And it's like what, 8,000 students just packed in this place. It's wild. And they go for. And so they do, they're doing these, you know, Q A types or the questionnaires that they do throughout the years to kind of get some feedback and like really understand like what's happening amongst the students. And by and large, like the, the songs that the students are grab these, you know, 18, 19 year old kids are gravitating toward or songs like It Is well of My Soul, How Great Thou Art and there's just. And. And same thing, man. I mean, leading the context I lead in with what's happening in our church in the next generation. There's something really beautiful like when these students, these kids get a hold of their faith and then they realize like this thing is anchored in something that's so much bigger than them. And it just, it turns the lights on in a lot of ways. You know, that, you know, for all the new songs we do that are awesome, and I love all those too. But there's something to be said about something that's just been around a lot longer than you, and it just brings a lot of stability to, to the idea of like the certainty of your faith, if that makes sense.

[D]

Amen.

[C]

You know, Pastor Joby, real resurgence in that generation. So for years, and this would be niche to my world, but the three years I've heard people arguing that people are going to move away from lights and stages and some of what we've known as church for the last 25, 30 years, and they're going to move back toward smaller, liturgical, up, down, kneeling. By liturgical, I just mean structurally ordered in a different way.

[D]

More traditional.

[C]

Traditional, yeah. High church, a little bit. But what I'm actually seeing is that what people are starving for is both order and fire. They want word, as Jesus says, spirit and word, if you will. But they want the energy and the, the momentum of the spirit of God moving in a people. But they want order and leadership and structure and clarity. And all these things are starting to merge together. And ultimately what I think behind that, which is a swing into some of the older songs, is that people are starving for doctrine, not just decent ideas. Pop psychology has run its course in the modern church. They're not looking for the how to's and the best tips and the best tricks. What they want is the meat of the word fleshed out into what we would call biblical orthodoxy or biblical doctrine. And the more we can sing right and sound doctrine, not just things that go good with four on the floor, kick drums and electric guitars, but like right and sound doctrine. The more we can sing that, I think the more and more the younger generation comes alive and the more and more war. Anthony it is not just repetitive, but it's very much a declaration of war and victory. The more their hearts are grabbing onto it, because everything in their world, as far as they've known, in any version of being 13 and on all people are telling you everywhere to my girls is, you're defeated. You better get small. Yeah, you're defeated. You better cower back.

[D]

You know what I mean?

[C]

That's. The whole world is just screaming, you're defeated. And we have a gospel that declares the exact opposite. And that's what I think a lot of that resurgence toward biblical orthodoxy in song and in practice, I think is a really good thing.

[E]

It's good.

[D]

Yeah. I never believe those things when they're like, the day of the. The big modern church is over. They've been saying that since I got into ministry. I just think it polls well the other way. You know what I mean? Like, people answer questions. It kind of reminds me of a Yogi Bear thing. It's like nobody goes to that church anymore. It's too crowded. Okay. It's that sort of thing, you know, because. Because the. The way it's actually playing out is there's churches than ever in the history of the world. But I do.

[C]

But you said something a couple of weeks ago that really got me thinking. We were talking about the. When the incomes, like when we do get to the place of the fullness of time, or at least of the point where Jesus returns and he starts the next process, if you will. One of the things that you said was that, because we were talking about, are things going to get worse or are things going to get better? And there's two different narratives, depending on which kind of tribe or camp you come out of. And you said it's not necessarily either one of those things. Things are going to get more clear, more polarized. And what I. I see that happening, and it could just be the lens that I'm looking through, but I see more and more clarity coming in the global church than there's ever been. And wheat and chaff ships and goats, whatever word you want to use. I just see the threshing floor of God sifting out things.

[D]

Like entire denominations are going to get stronger and weak.

[C]

Things are going to be sifted.

[D]

Yeah. Entire denominations have gone straight apostate. They have, you know, that used to kind of be a little like, no, let's just agree to disagree on secondary things. Now they've just gone way over here. And there's. There's been a lot of clarity and renewal of sound orthodoxy and orthopraxy. And what is crazy. What's. What's crazy about it is, like, the sociologists and the people that actually don't know Jesus but study this stuff, we're like, well, in order to stay with the times, you're going to have to make these changes about these cultural issues. And every church that goes that way. The language we would use from the Bible is Jesus removes the lampstand and those things die.

[B]

Right?

[D]

And the ones that just stay close to the word of God, especially the hard parts, with love and truth, those things flourish. It's almost like Jesus knew what he was talking about in the book of Revelation when he wrote to the seven churches.

[B]

That's right.

[D]

Yeah, man.

[B]

Pastor Joby, you do this really, really well where you talk. Teach us that when we're reading the Bible, that we can find Jesus on every page. And as you read your Bible that way, you start to see that there are these repeating patterns. And so what we've been talking about here reminds me that that really is the shape of worship, that transcendent shape of I look back, I root in something that. That has been done by God. It's extremely relevant for who I am right now and the moment that I'm in and gives me hope for the future. That is the. That is the transcendent shape of being a disciple, of following Jesus and of worship. And so as we get into the song, because he lives, that same shape is there.

[D]

Yeah, right.

[B]

It's like, here's what God did. He sent his son. This is what is happening right now. And I can have hope for that day When I'll cross the river A.

[D]

Part of the reason I picked this song. And again, I don't pick a lot of songs, but our worst team is really great. If I say we're singing this, they just go, that's a great idea. That's what we're doing. But there were some chuckles when I'm like, we're doing the Gaithers. Like, what? I'm like, okay, so we'll talk about this in the sermon. But I was with Larry OSBORNE, Call it 40 years ago, when it seems like the world is just, you know, mouth going crazy. And Larry Osborne, who is, what, maybe in his 70s. If he's a little bit younger than that, I apologize, Larry Osborne. But he's a very, very wise man. He's been around a minute, and he goes, guys, it's all pastors at that point. We were in our 40s, and we're like, oh, this has never happened before. He goes, y', all this is 1968 and 1969 all over again. The racial stuff, the political stuff, the wars, the economic strife, the. He's like, we've seen all this before. And then he goes, and don't forget, the Jesus revolution came out of this tumultuous time in our country. And I thought, huh? So came home. We built all of saturated those years around that. We showed videos from the 60s that you would think we recorded in Minneapolis two weeks, you know, two weeks prior to. And then we celebrated what God did then and began to pray that God would do that here and now. I think we're actually in it right here, right now. It was in that time where the Gaithers write this song and this kind of weird verse. We'll talk about it in the sermon. For sure. If you have no context whatsoever and you're just singing, because he lives, I can face tomorrow because he lives, all fear is gone. And then it's like, how sweet to hold a newborn baby. You're like, what? Okay. But in the context of it, the Gaithers had a baby and everybody's telling them, what is wrong with you? How could you have a baby in this kind of time and place? Sound familiar? People are literally saying and believing that these days. And they're saying, okay, if I look to the future, and I think that the circumstances are in charge, I could see why you would be afraid. But I can have this calm assurance that this child can face uncertain days. Because when I look to the future, I see a resurrected Christ.

[B]

That's right.

[D]

Yeah, bro. If that don't speak to where we are right now. And I also think very similar to the Jesus revolution of the 70s, at least as far as I can see what God is doing in this upcoming generation in the students right here at 11:22. I've done student ministry since I was 19 years old, and I have never seen a wave of revival in students like this. And I think it is incumbent upon us to go to war on behalf of this generation because we have an enemy trying to steal, kill and destroy. So part of the reason I wanted to pick this song is not only that we would have our hope anchored in the empty tomb, but as we also look forward to our kids, because all of us got them, man, that we can have a hope. We can have a calm assurance that because Jesus lives, not only are our kids going to be just fine, but they're going to walk in victory, and we've got to set the stage for that. Right?

[E]

That's great.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

You and Gretchen gonna have a new baby.

[D]

It would be miraculous. It would be miraculous.

[E]

I've been there.

[D]

That's right. He's true.

[B]

He's lived the story.

[C]

Miraculous though, you know what, what are you?

[D]

Miraculous.

[C]

Miraculous.

[D]

You know what I mean?

[E]

Things are working just fine for seven years.

[D]

You know what I mean?

[E]

Then co hit and something must have came undone. I don't know.

[C]

That's a way to say it, old buddy.

[D]

There's no question.

[E]

15, 11 and 4.

[D]

So just like you playing.

[E]

Right, right. Every, every age group. So.

[B]

Well, that, that's such a. Interesting thought. Like you talk about Pastor Joby, you know, we, we, we came out of this two year time period where the enemy only comes to steal, kill and destroy. And when you think about the, the pre Jesus movement, you think about the, the hippie movement or whatever, like sex, drugs and rock and roll. Right? And, and a big part of that was the sexual liberation. That was what was. It was the first time birth control was widely available. You know, and so it was like, I don't have to think about kids or the next generation. I'll do what I want. And you just said in the recent Elijah series, new Day, same demons. And so it's, it's funny how that continues to surface, this idea of like, well, we're going to destroy or ignore the upcoming generation and how the opposite is true of the good shepherd, that he wants to bring life.

[D]

All right, So I love it when sociological realities finally catch up with the truth that Jesus is right or the truth from the scriptures. So you take the late 60s and it is me at the center of my own universe to determine my reality, to pursue my happiness.

[C]

Yes. The sexual revolution, right?

[D]

Yeah. And drugs and whatever. It's. I do whatever I want with whoever, whenever I want, and you can't tell me what to do. And that is going to lead to happiness. And then it didn't. Yeah. Okay. 2,000 years before that, the confused disciples show up to an empty tomb and an angel asks this question, why do you look for the living among the dead? It's the same question to the hippies. You're looking for life in a thing that doesn't provide life. And then a bunch of those hippies hear the good news of the gospel of Jesus Christ in Southern California and be like, wait a minute. The thing we were actually looking for, the freedom that we were pursuing is actually found in the resurrected Christ. That's the same truth today. That's because he lives. I can face tomorrow. So I don't have to look for life in the things of this world that don't provide life. I can find life in him because he has defeated death. And he brings me all the things that I'm actually looking for. I mean, one of the big aha moments for me a long time ago was the three big sins. Temptations the enemy throws, lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes, pride of life are actually fulfilled in Jesus. The lust of the flesh is the feel away. He's the prince of peace. The lust of the eyes is. You want some stuff. You are a co heir with him to the kingdom of heaven and the pride of life. You want to be somebody like you want a blue check? How about this? How about you? God the Father welcomes you into heaven as an adopted son and says, hey, have a seat on the throne. So it's actually just a miss. It's a right desire and a misplaced pursuit. And so the angels say, hey, why do you look for life in places? In a graveyard? There's no life in here. Life is found in the resurrected Christ. That's this song. Because he lives, I can face tomorrow. Because he lives, all fear is gone. Because I know he holds the future. Life's worth, the living life, like that abundant John 10:10, not skating by kind of life. But life is found in him because he lives.

[C]

What are yalls? Go to resources. Like when you talk about trying to prepare for your sermon you're writing, you're going in the secret place, or you're trying to prepare your heart for worshiping with God's people, you know, maybe and sometimes because I don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water, you're riding down the road and you're just like, I don't spend some time with the Lord and I'm going to put this on. What are your go to resources? You know, your records you listen to, if you will.

[B]

I just have a playlist of about a hundred songs that for whatever reason they mean, they mean something to me. And I'll put that on. And it's got, it's got like all kinds of different, different songs.

[C]

Will you put that playlist in the show notes?

[D]

Oh, I mean, a lot.

[B]

I'm gonna try. Yeah, sure.

[D]

Here's a fun game. Just go to people that you love and just look at their most played songs. That'd be a good little family game, you know, to be like. To just reveal.

[B]

Yeah, so. So there's a song on there that is literally, it's from a conference called Together for The gospel, and it's, it's one guy, Bob Coughlin.

[C]

I was there when they recorded. You were there?

[B]

I was there. My voice is one of them, but it's like 15, 000 voices. And the song is called Dear Refuge for my weary Soul on thee when sorrows rise. And so if I'm like, I mean, it's just so beautiful. And if I'm really feeling like down, that song is. Is super ministering to me. But then if I push Skip, here comes Chris Tomlin or Josh Baldwin or something like that. So it's. It's all kind of stuff.

[C]

What about you, Mitch?

[E]

Yeah, I'm a little over the map. I mean, a lot of times it's silence for me because I have junk in my ears all the time. You know, I'm on stage with things plugged in, right? So there's a lot of inputs there. And, and I mean, this year, preparation of getting ready for weekends, we, you know, week in, week out, church every four days. You know, a lot of times, just the silence is kind of where the Lord really gets a hold of. You know what I mean? But musically, man, honestly, and at the time when I kind of stepped into ministry and the Lord really, I mean, I didn't, I didn't sign up for this, right? Like, I have a degree in science, I was a baseball player, right? I mean, it's not like I had this trajectory of professional ministry. And so, you know, stepping into ministry, into vocational ministry in my mid-20s, I mean, I was. I was a. Just a ball of insecurity. Had no idea what I was doing. Couldn't play guitar, right? Because I grew up doing the acapella thing, right? Could sing, I could lead stuff because I was always like team captain, that kind of thing. But I mean, I had no category for how to do vocational ministry. I didn't even know it existed. There was one guy that, that worked at church when I grew up. You know, he had the keys, he locked the doors, that kind of thing. But when I stepped into ministry, Hillsong was like really just popping out some bangers. I mean, across the earth, tear down the walls like those records. Then Zion comes out. It's kind of this weird amalgamation of like, I feel like I'm in Abercrombie and Fitch. But, like, the songs are pretty good, you know, but there's some songs on there that just kind of take me back to that season of time, you know, And I honestly, there was a season of life where I would, I would put those records on, on Saturday night. Because that's when the whispers would hit me so hard. I would literally listen to them. They were actually DVDs of like, their tours.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[E]

And I would just have them on the entire night because I just needed to fight what the. I mean, honestly just felt like a demonic attack over my life. And I knew how to get up and get in front of people and lead them worship. So when I hit, when I hear those records now, they still kind of pull me back to that place of thankfulness and remembering, like, what God has done. And I mean, who am I that I get to sit around a table with guys like you? Some of the smartest people I know, some of the most godly people I know, but then stand in rooms like we get to stand in and see God move, you know, it's like, who knew?

[C]

Hillsong's a great example of no shade or nothing. They've had a really hard time. Much of it self imposed, no doubt, no question. So you can form your own opinions about that. But you talk about just how sometimes the head scratcher of it all is like some of the songs that they would put out would be so theologically rich and so cross centered, gospel centered. And then sometimes you'd listen to the preaching and you'd be like, what?

[D]

There's a lot of that going.

[C]

I know. I just.

[E]

Yeah. Oh, dude.

[C]

T bro Tay is new record.

[E]

Yes.

[C]

She's got a long way to go, just like we all do in regards to decades. And then we'll see where we all are.

[D]

Who doesn't?

[C]

But of course I'm saying we all. Her new record is a gift.

[E]

No doubt.

[C]

It is a gift. And she's doing it right. And she's one of the people that I point my little. My daughters to that I'm like, listen, like, she did a little eight song release on YouTube, six song release of her record on YouTube where she teaches the Bible in between the songs and shares testimony and it is so great. It's so great. So Taya's new record for sure is called the Reminder. That's a good one. What about you? Pastor.

[D]

Of Dirt and Grace by Hillsong United.

[C]

Oh, yeah, classic.

[D]

Part of it is in Israel. Yeah, that's the year I went like when they filmed it there. So I would listen to the songs in the spots and then it just kind of gets in you. So that is a go to for sure. While I'm writing sermons. This Shane's almost basically everything the Shanes do.

[C]

Yeah, there's psalms records for sure.

[D]

Psalm 34 is like Psalm 43. But pretty much everything they do. Part of the reason is like, I know them. I know their hearts. Like we hang out and hunt. What you were talking about earlier about people yearning for that doctrinal depth, that's them. I mean, you don't write, though. You slay me to try to get on family friendly radio. You don't get you. They're just writing.

[C]

You're injection Piper clip into your song. You're like, oh my gosh.

[D]

So that. And then lately it's that psalms and the blues thing, which again is an AI generated thing, which you can form your own opinion for that. But they're singing Bible verses, man. And so I'm into it. I would be very, very cautious of the police that are trying to tell everybody what they can and can't sing based on where the people are from. Agreed. Couple of things. I don't know that you would apply that to the psalms. And that guy's a murderer and a rapist or at least an adulterer. And many of the hymns that we love and sing, those jokers got some. It gets weird. Some of the Martin Luther dude, he wrote some weird stuff about Jewish people that you would be like, yeah, let's try to. I mean, what. Okay. Also Horatio Spafford, he didn't end good for him. He got kooky, real kooky at the end. I mean cultic like kooky. But we would. We're not gonna throw out it as well. So. And then to all the folks are like, well, we only sing from. Okay. Write better songs. Write us some good church songs, man. Apparently it's hard because unless you ask AI then apparently I'm doing it all.

[C]

The time with AI, baby. I'm just pumping out hits.

[E]

So what's your take on AI writing songs for your church? I was like, oh, boy, here we go.

[C]

That's good.

[B]

Before we run out of time, I want to just touch on two of the things in this song. And the first one is, how does the. The hope of the resurrection, because he lives. How does it tackle fear? Because in that chorus, because he lives, all fear is gone. So what is it about that truth that specifically attacks fear? Scripture tells us perfect love casts out all fear.

[D]

So there's no way I came up with this on my own because it's too good. But I cannot remember where I got this. But it came out in a sermon two or three weeks. So if. If I could give credit, I would. If I could remember. Occasionally I have an original Idea. But it's pretty rare. Fear. The difference between fear and faith is looking into the future. And who do you think is in control? When you look to the assurance of eternity with Christ, all fear is gone. This is how Paul says, like, to live as Christ, to die is Cain. Worst thing you do is kill my body. Jesus says that you shouldn't fear the one that can only kill your body. Like, that's kind of what I was most afraid of. He's like, you should be afraid. You should have reverence for the one that can actually damn your soul. And if you're in Christ, you know that. You know that. You know he's not going to damn your soul. He's going to glorify you in Christ. So that's it. You. You see the future and whatever you think's in control that determines whether it's faith or fear. So this. This is one of the most melodic things I've ever seen. It's basically singing that, that. That truth.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

The difference between faith and fear is looking into the future and. And whoever you think is holding it in his hands will either stoke your fear or your faith.

[C]

Unless he says, because I know. Whoa, whoa.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

He holds the future.

[D]

That's it.

[E]

I love the new. The new mercies thing that you do too, but, like, you ain't there yet.

[D]

Yeah. You know what I mean?

[E]

So the mercies aren't there yet. And that's. It's just a good reminder for us, man. It's like you gave me everything I need for today. When tomorrow gets here, they'll be waiting for me. You know what I mean? That's just. That's it.

[B]

Yeah. And how much of anxiety is trying to bring tomorrow's worries to today?

[D]

100.

[B]

You know, the other thing is hope. And, you know, that third verse is talking about I will see the lights of glory. And one thing I've reflected on is how. How now. How now. Ish. A lot of the modern songs are, you know, it's like. I think a lot of. A lot of the older ones were very much like, oh, and the sweet by and by. And it sort of felt too far away. And then there's then an immediacy that. That's now. But we may have lost a little bit of that anticipation and that assurance of hope for tomorrow when everything is. Everything is made right. So what's a better way to balance that?

[C]

At some point, Whether I do this in all staff or somewhere. I read a book not too long ago called Waiting for Heaven, and it is it is messed with me in all the right ways. And it's exactly what you're talking about. You know, if you go back to what you were saying earlier in C.S. lewis's first of the Narnia novels, the first book is called the Magician's Nephew. And in it he gives a fictional creation account where Aslan, who is the godlike Christ like figure in these. In this place of Narnia, he creates Narnia. And what's fast, he sings it. He sings creation. And when you're reading it, you're just like, it's. There's so. It's so much creation and eschatology all just kind of wrapped up into imagination. It's a really beautiful thing. And I think that that's the. There's something in us. Call it a song that is connected to this glorious future that is our future, but to God, it is happening now, and it will forever be happening. So it's a beautiful thing.

[D]

Amen. Let's One thing that lands on me is that when Jesus is talking to the the Samaritan woman at the well and she wants to get into this theological dispute about where we worship, Jesus says that God's not looking for worship. He doesn't say that. He says he's looking for worshipers that worship him in spirit and in truth. And my hope and my prayer is that this sermon series would help us be those worshipers. So it's not like a particular song, it's not like a particular style, but it's that we would be those people that worship him in spirit and in truth. Amen. Let me pray, Father. That's our prayer. May we be a people that worship you in spirit and in truth. Amen. Thank you for listening to the podcast.

[A]

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