Listener/Church Member 1 (4:12)

Well, kind of the headline, legalism. You guys remember that? You remember Derek Webb? Remember the song that he wrote?

Listener/Church Member 2 (4:21)

I don't remember the song, but I do remember him.

Listener/Church Member 1 (4:23)

Unfortunately, he's. He's deconstructed his faith. But there's a song that he wrote. He used to be in a band called Cadence Call, and then he wrote a song called A New Law. You ever hear that song?

Pastor Joby Martin (4:33)

Maybe and know that one? Cadman's Call album.

Listener/Church Member 1 (4:37)

It was. It's basically like, hey, don't teach me about politics. Just tell Me who to vote for. Don't teach me how to be free. Just give me a new rule. And it's, it's. It's basically about legalism. It's like people prefer just a. A simple set. Don't. I don't have to think about it. Just tell me what to do. Check yes or no. And so, I mean, we going to talk about that quite a bit. But Pastor Joby, why is legalism. You said it's basically it says to God, hey, nice try and let me help you out a little bit. Why is it such a powerful. Why is it so powerfully attractive for people to substitute what they had before?

Pastor Joby Martin (5:18)

Yeah, because it still puts you in control, you know, and if you can do the right sacrifices, then you think God will be pleased. The only problem is he's not looking for that. He's looking for mercy. And that's the difference. It's like a heart posture attitude versus a religious activity attitude. And I mean honestly, it goes all the way back to the Garden of Eden and Adam and Eve run and by the works of their own hands try to make a covering suitable to cover their sin and shame. And that's what, that's what religion does. The problem is like if, if, if God would have not loved them enough to confront them and make a cover suitable by sacrifice and turn them over to their own desires. What happens over time is now they're looking down on everybody who's fig leaf. It's tight as theirs. And that's why, that's why legalism kills. It's when you take something that may be a wise decision for you that is in addition to the text and even rooted in the text and then you try to make it salvific for somebody else. You're just in danger because you're putting yourself in the seat of judgment over someone else in regards to whether they're even a believer or not.

Listener/Church Member 2 (6:38)

What's the old Piper quote on legalism about?

Pastor Joby Martin (6:41)

Alcohol? Yeah, bro, I should have said it. I was. Yeah, he did a. He did. He's done many sermons. He was talking about alcohol in the Bible. And dude, he is a teetotaler. So he's not trying to justify, you know, drinking within moderate. None of. He don't. I don't think the dude will take nyquil because it has alcohol in it. You know, that's how he is. And he says there are more people in hell over legalism than alcoholism.

Listener/Church Member 2 (7:05)

Yeah, that's pretty, It's a pretty powerful. It's a pretty powerful Statement, especially from him. No question. You talking about a holy, like, like guy who has really pursued an understanding of. And a practice of holiness.

Pastor Joby Martin (7:20)

Correct.

Listener/Church Member 2 (7:21)

His entire adult life. I mean, he has abstained from own personal conviction.

Pastor Joby Martin (7:27)

And he would say that, you know, television and.

Listener/Church Member 2 (7:30)

Exactly.

Pastor Joby Martin (7:30)

Correct. Yeah.

Listener/Church Member 2 (7:32)

And so, yeah, the. I don't know if I don't know where I heard this first, but it's like legalism says that God will love us if we change. And the gospel says God will change us because he loves us.

Pastor Joby Martin (7:42)

Amen.

Listener/Church Member 2 (7:43)

And that these are two fundamentally different things. You know, and the thing about. I'm, I was thinking about it tonight when you're. Because you know, the Pharisees, they get a bad rap and they certainly earned it in a lot of ways. I've just never met a legalist or even in the stages of my life where I had legalism at work in my life. I've never met a legalist or someone practicing legalism that just raised their hand and were like, I'm a legalist. You just think you're right.

Pastor Joby Martin (8:13)

It usually takes a real divine encounter with the grace of Jesus totally. To knock it off of you.

Listener/Church Member 2 (8:20)

It totally does. You know, it's the older brother syndrome in the prodigal. In the prodigal son. You know, it's a real thing.

Listener/Church Member 1 (8:30)

I loved what you said. When you make up your own rules as a way to please God, you'll. You'll just immediately find the loopholes to them.

Pastor Joby Martin (8:37)

Right.

Listener/Church Member 1 (8:37)

You know, I, I've done that before too. It's like, well, this is what I'm going to do. And then it's just like it's. Your brain goes there immediately. Like, how could I get around that a little bit if I was really wanting to? I also, I also love that you pointed out a couple of times that this chapter is full of Jesus revealing his divinity. And he compares himself to David. He says he's the greater temple. He refers himself the Son of man. Let's unpack each of those.

Pastor Joby Martin (9:15)

So he's the greater prophet, he's the greater king, he's the greater temple, he's the Son of man. So again, anybody that says like, you'll see all these things. I see. My algorithm feeds me the Christian debating the Muslim on the street now because, you know, I just watch it. And, and that's a case that the modern Islamic apologist makes. Show me where Jesus says he's God and then. Because he doesn't do it in English, you know what I mean? But if 1st century Jewish rabbi talking To a Jewish audience, as recorded by Matthew. He's actually. He checks. He doesn't just say it one time. It. He would have just said, I am God. It would be. It wouldn't have the same punch as Son of Man, Greater temple, greater than Jonah. Like he's just speaking that language.

Listener/Church Member 2 (10:10)

I and the God. I and God are. I and the Father are one. It's a pretty, you know, pretty low. I mean, it's not totally explicit. It's pretty close.

Pastor Joby Martin (10:18)

You find what you're looking for. I've used. I've never found a shark's tooth. I have looked about 8 seconds 1 time last year just to see. And I was like, this is stupid. And then people bring them to me because I said that. But you find what you're looking for. So what the Pharisees are doing is they're just walking around with a clipboard, apparently following them through grain fields just to see if they mess up.

Listener/Church Member 2 (10:37)

You know, one of the things that's interesting to me, you see it here. You see it later in Matthew 17 and 18. Jesus is up at the sea, like Genesaret. You know, he's. He's a distance from Jerusalem. The amount of distance these cats had to cover because it said they left Jerusalem and went to wherever he was just to give him a hard time.

Pastor Joby Martin (11:01)

Yeah.

Listener/Church Member 2 (11:02)

You know, I mean, like he. Like they were really perturbed by this guy. You know, they were super. Trying to get control of this thing and trying to keep control.

Pastor Joby Martin (11:11)

In John, it says why. It shares their motives. The Gospel of John. The Pharisees say people are leaving us and following him and we are losing control. So the real backbone, the soul of legalism, the soul of. Yeah, religiosity is fear and control.

Listener/Church Member 2 (11:32)

Right? Yeah. Don't you think? Practically. I mean, that played out with power and money. Right. And so, gosh, you know, the power side of it is, you know, very much if you just think of it like if a game, or you could even make it like a civic system or whatever. The more complicated you make something, the more the players of the game have to rely on the judges. So think about like modern day gymnastics or the irs. Or the irs. But let's just take modern day gymnastics. Like you watch gymnastics, these girls are incredible athletes. But the judging of it is all comp. Is all very subjective. I wouldn't say it's completely subjective, but it's very subjective. And it's a complicated judging system. And so you'll watch these unbelievable athletes do these unbelievable things and they're Getting deducted like a tenth of this and a tenth of that. And you're like, what are you even talking about? It's like, she heard left nostril moved. You know what I mean? It's like, that's a deduction. You're like, what are we? It's so complex that you're completely dependent on the subjective sight, vision, and application of the judges. And so if you're a judge or you're the creator of the system, it behooves you to make it complicated.

Pastor Joby Martin (12:53)

Yep.

Listener/Church Member 2 (12:54)

And this is why Jesus would say things like that. You're. You're tying millstones around their necks and

Pastor Joby Martin (13:01)

you don't even keep it.

Listener/Church Member 2 (13:02)

And you don't even.

Pastor Joby Martin (13:02)

That's the thing. But, like, judges, you can't even do a cartwheel.

Listener/Church Member 2 (13:05)

Exactly.

Pastor Joby Martin (13:05)

And you're going to tell these people how to flip over to the thing. Oh, real life application for the Jacksonville Jaguars. I won't name the name. Don't even try to figure out who it is. Or ask me. Ask me afterwards. Let's just say I know some people that work for the Jaguars at a very high level, and. And they had empirical evidence that there is referee bias against the Jags. I mean, the data just proves it out. And when they go to the referees association and say, you're biased against us, their first answer was, there's no bias in referee. That's how I know you're lying, dude. That's how there's. I mean, show the videos of the referees dancing with Tom Brady in the end zone, like, literally congratulating when he throws the touchdown. These kinds of things. You have to admit, if. If you're. If you've got any maturity, you have to admit we all have a bias towards and against things. If you're a human being. Now, there. Hopefully there are some that are better than others and all of that, but if that is your defense, you just lost.

Listener/Church Member 2 (14:07)

Yeah, I'm incapable of bias. Yeah, yeah, that's legit. And then the money side of it, you know, like, I don't have all this sorted out, but I've been really just thinking about. Because they would get so perturbed about the Sabbath, and you think about not. Not so much the ties and offerings or like the. The things that people would bring to the temple for the sake of the temple and the ministry happening there. It was the e. The economic system

Pastor Joby Martin (14:37)

around that is to do that, too. A part of the problem with. When he's going to turn over, like the money changers is the. The pharisees the religious leaders, created an inspection site for the offerings. And if your sacrifice wasn't up to snuff, then they would be like, sorry, that one has a flaw, but we have a perfect one for sale here.

Listener/Church Member 2 (14:59)

Yeah, see, the widow's might.

Pastor Joby Martin (15:00)

Yeah, dude. I mean, they're. They're straight. I mean, it's bad juju there, man.

Listener/Church Member 2 (15:05)

Yeah. And Jesus calls it a den of robbers and does his thing. Right. You know, but it's like.

Pastor Joby Martin (15:09)

So have you seen the. The TV show Testament?

Listener/Church Member 2 (15:11)

I don't think so, bro.

Pastor Joby Martin (15:12)

So good. It's on Angel Studios.

Listener/Church Member 2 (15:14)

Kyle, that's like the axe in post apocalyptic world.

Pastor Joby Martin (15:17)

So good.

Listener/Church Member 2 (15:17)

I got to check it out.

Pastor Joby Martin (15:18)

You would love it. Okay. You should read it with. You should watch it with your Bible open. It's on Angel Studios or whatever their things called. Now, Kyle, interviewed on. On Undaunted Life, the guy that made it. This guy's like a. He's from England or whatever. He was trained in, like, whatever their Broadway would be, you know, like, he's a super. He's great. He's a believer, bro. It's just verse by verse, like, his interpretation. Post apocalyptic. Well, what you get to see. And again, he'll take, like, three verses and make a whole episode out of it. But you see this dynamic. So Caiaphas is the. They don't call him the chief priest, but the high minister or whatever they call him. And Pilate comes in, and they're in acts. They're like in chapter eight, and there's some. There's some uprisings happening. And Pilate's like, are you gonna handle this, or do I need to get another chief priest? And. And Caiaphas is like, well, actually. And you can tell that the power dynamic, like, Pilate's in charge, and all Pilate cares about is that there's not an uprising, because that's what he is held accountable to for Rome. As long as everybody shut up. You can kill your goats and doves, we don't care. But we can't have any messiahs popping up because there's all these people and. And Pilot's like, just go get his dead body and hang him up in the square. And Cavis, like, we can't find him. And he's like, what? I thought you told me you killed him. He's like, well, we told you not to tell you. We. We didn't want to tell you that because. But we got it. We got it. And you see it, man. It plays out in, like. Like, more than, like, it's hard to see that kind of dynamic in a couple of verses.

Listener/Church Member 2 (16:50)

Yeah.

Pastor Joby Martin (16:50)

And. And this show, it does everything you're saying. So Herod Caiaphas, all these people have been appointed. These are not, like, they didn't come up grassroots and they like, had the gifts in order to be a chief priest. That's not how this thing is working, man. These people were appointed by Rome. And of course they're going to like, kind of stick to the Jewish laws as much as it serves them, but primarily they're going to do what Rome wants them to do for sure. And. And yeah, dude, it's. They're walking around with a clipboard just pointing out everything wrong. I mean, dude, the thing that blows me away, there's two guys and they're demon oppressed, they can't talk. And then Jesus heals them and they're like, still not enough withered hand guy. Still, you did it wrong, did it on the wrong day. And then they have the audacity to be like, know what we really need is a sign. Well, have you been to church the last five weeks, bro? That's all it's been, is sign after sign after sign after sign.

Listener/Church Member 1 (17:51)

They're only paying attention when they're trying to catch him in something.

Pastor Joby Martin (17:54)

Correct.

Listener/Church Member 1 (17:55)

Not when he's doing.

Listener/Church Member 2 (17:56)

Yeah, even in that we demand a sign or we need a sign. What they're trying to do is to get Jesus to do what they. They're just trying to say, can we get this guy to do what we want him to do?

Pastor Joby Martin (18:06)

Right. And that so that they can destroy him, is what it says in this chapter.

Listener/Church Member 2 (18:12)

Yeah, that's messed up.

Listener/Church Member 1 (18:15)

I also. This small little note. Well, I think the Sabbath, they were so mad about the Sabbath because of how many times the Old Testament prophets said exiles because you profaned the Sabbath. So the Sabbath became a really big deal.

Pastor Joby Martin (18:31)

And they're profaning the Sabbath by turning it in. Like, I mean, Jesus is going to say, listen, the Sabbath is a gift to you to serve you. You don't serve it.

Listener/Church Member 2 (18:43)

So he actually says that. Right? He's like, sabbath does. Man doesn't exist for the Sabbath.

Pastor Joby Martin (18:48)

Right? Yeah, yeah. So I didn't have time to get into all of it because I had a lot to cover. But so what the Pharisees would do. So write intentions in the beginning, which please make the connection that at some point the original folks that began to step into legalism probably had the right posture towards something going, that's dangerous. So let's stay away from it for Wisdom's sake. You do that for three generations and if you know whatever, whatever your legalism is, then now you're just trapped in it. So the, the Bible does say in the law that you cannot bear a load on the Sabbath, but it doesn't explain that. So the, the Pharisees like we'll explain it. And so literally there's commentary on what about can you carry your clothes? And so then they write all this stuff down. If you wear it, yes, but if you carry it in your hand, no. And so. Or you can only. How far can we walk? Is walk work? Well, it depends how far it is. So they came up with 3, 000 steps. That's pretty good ways. Unless you had food stored somewhere. And then what? Now this is not in the Bible. This is just what they're making up. If you have food somewhere, then you got to eat. So no problem there. And, and you can only go 3,000 steps from your house, but that'll count as your house too. So they would store food along their errand run. And so they would do like a member of progressive dinners. They would do their own progressive dinner so that they could legally stay. Okay, all right. Modern day, the Shabbat elevator.

Listener/Church Member 2 (20:30)

Wild.

Pastor Joby Martin (20:31)

All right, so you can't push the button because that's work. But you can get on my elevator and ask me to push the button. Like what? Okay, you're holy. What are we talking about here? And the reason is because some Pharisees along the way said you can't build a fire. And in their interpretation of that is you push an electrical button and it sends a current which is a form of fire, which would be work. So we can't push the button.

Listener/Church Member 2 (20:55)

Exhausting.

Pastor Joby Martin (20:56)

And then Jesus goes, all right, if your dog was dying on the third floor, would you use the gentile elevator so you could go save your dog? And they'd be like, yeah, all right. People are more important than that. And dog doesn't really work because dogs cost us money, they don't make us money. But in that day, the sheep. Would you save your sheep out of it was about money. So then they created the loophole because ain't nobody going to let the sheep die cuz it's going to cost them some money. And like God, we love you and we ain't going to work on the Sabbath, but we don't love you enough to let my sheep die. This is what's going on. And so Jesus is just digging down to the heart of it. And dude, when he says, have you not read, bro. That's like you on the golf course and somebody. Not you, you, but like, you. You're trying to shame somebody next to you. Like, whatever you would say, you know what I mean?

Listener/Church Member 2 (21:45)

There's a lot of shame on the golf course, but it's only going to one.

Pastor Joby Martin (21:48)

Are those your wives? Club start you Whatever you would say, you know what I'm saying? Do you take lessons? Like, whatever the worst. Like, have you read Hun where the professional Readers

Listener/Church Member 2 (22:01)

Bros. I got the yips. Oh, no, just for three clubs.

Pastor Joby Martin (22:05)

Don't use those.

Listener/Church Member 2 (22:06)

It's an absolute.

Pastor Joby Martin (22:07)

Just your driver, your irons and your butter, man.

Listener/Church Member 2 (22:09)

It's my eight, my nine, and my pitching wedge. Like, of all the clubs, you would think this is not even a hard club to swing.

Pastor Joby Martin (22:15)

8. 9 is usually, like, sweet.

Listener/Church Member 2 (22:17)

Listen, man, it's not like. It's not like I'm kind of missing. It's the straight yips. I mean, if you don't know what that is, it's even hard to say. It's like. It's hard to say it. But y' all can pray for me in that. On a different note, you said dog, and it made me think about the guy that's in the story that Jesus talks about with David. His name's not Dog, but it's like, do. Do the do Doe, the Edomite. And a really great Bible study tool practice is if Jesus says, you know, like, Jonah, go read Jonah.

Pastor Joby Martin (22:53)

Yeah.

Listener/Church Member 2 (22:54)

Or you know, like when David ate the bread of the. Of the Presence. Yeah, go read the story of David eating the bread of the Presence. Like this is. You can follow Jesus around.

Listener/Church Member 1 (23:05)

1st Samuel 21.

Listener/Church Member 2 (23:06)

1st Samuel 21.

Pastor Joby Martin (23:08)

What a wild story.

Listener/Church Member 2 (23:09)

It's not a story. You know, we don't love that word, but it's a testimony.

Pastor Joby Martin (23:12)

Yeah.

Listener/Church Member 2 (23:14)

You know, David gets. He's either on the run or he's on the run from Saul. And he rolls up at Eleazar, Ella, whatever his name is. One of the priests. He rolls up at the church.

Listener/Church Member 1 (23:26)

It's called Knob.

Listener/Church Member 2 (23:27)

Knob Nob is the name of the place. Rolls up in there and he's like, what you got to eat? He's like, I don't have any bread. He's like, oh, you got bread? And he's like, oh, all we have is the holy bread. He's like, yeah, we'll have that. He's like, well, you can only have it if nobody's been sleeping with women. He's like, David's like, what are you talking about? He's like, we're on holy orders here, bro. Nobody's sleeping with women. Give us the bread. Give us whatever you have. And so they eat the bread. And then at the end of this, at the end of that chat, that little section, he's like, you got any swords or knives?

Pastor Joby Martin (24:03)

Sketch.

Listener/Church Member 2 (24:04)

It's like, why you're David, how do you not have swords or knives? And he's like, I was in a hurry.

Listener/Church Member 1 (24:09)

We're in a hurry.

Listener/Church Member 2 (24:09)

Yeah. And it's just so human.

Pastor Joby Martin (24:12)

And then he's like, we have Goliath sword.

Listener/Church Member 2 (24:14)

That's what he said. He goes, I do have Goliath sword. He's like, I'll take it there. There's only one of those, like, there's a lot of humor in it in the sense that. And this is the story Jesus and what jes.

Pastor Joby Martin (24:26)

The reason he's doing it is because the, the Pharisees have lifted up David as like the greatest hero from the Old Testament, right? And so Jesus is going, okay, so let's apply your rules to David. And they're like, nah. He's like, all right. My favorite thing though is when he's just like, I'm the Lord of the Sabbath. The best thing I could think of, like, I make up rules in my house that are not in the Bible. Those are my rules. I just made them up.

Listener/Church Member 1 (24:55)

Yeah.

Pastor Joby Martin (24:56)

And they're for my children as they're growing up. Cuz they're morons. And every child is because they, they lack wisdom, because they're youth. They just lack the experience, you know. And so the reason it's no cookies before dinner is because you just will only eat cookies. And if you're like, dad, the rule is. Oh, the rule that I wrote in my house. You don't understand. You're not even old enough to understand. I mean, now, you know, JB's about to be 21. He. Whatever he wants because he's smart enough to not be a 3 year old and just fill up on cupcakes or whatever first. Right? It's that kind of thing. I mean, when Jesus says, I am Lord of the Sabbath, this is the thing that gets. These are the things that get him killed. It's not his miracles. It's, it's. And if he just did them on the Sabbath and they got mad at him, that'd be one thing. But for them, him to claim, hey man, this law that you, you know, I wrote the law, so I know what I'm doing. That's the blasphemy. If he's not who he Says he is for sure.

Listener/Church Member 2 (26:02)

That C.S. lewis quote you shared is money. One of the best ones ever. Yeah.

Listener/Church Member 1 (26:07)

I also see a little gospel thread here. When he says David when he was hungry and those who were with him, the. The bread not lawful for him to eat nor for those who were with him. And so the Pharisees are after the disciples for what they're doing. He's like, hey there with me.

Pastor Joby Martin (26:26)

Y.

Listener/Church Member 1 (26:30)

I love that you brought out. It was very Paul Pauline, the babysitter. You know, like if he says to them, haven't you read Guardian?

Pastor Joby Martin (26:39)

Yeah, he says Guardian, but babysitter is a good modern day equivalent.

Listener/Church Member 1 (26:43)

And I was thinking about where would it have said that the law will be fulfilled? And there, there, there's plenty of prophecies that said I'm going to write it on your heart. It's going to be. Things are going to be different. And you said the babysitter first keeps you alive, tells you what you did wrong. And then I'll. I'll add to your list if I can leaves when mom and dad get there.

Pastor Joby Martin (27:05)

Yeah, that's very true. That's good. Yeah. And, and the lawgiver has shown up. That's so I think the long. It's a bad rap, you know, like evangelical, especially post reformation. Okay. The law of the Lord is perfect, reviving the soul.

Listener/Church Member 2 (27:24)

Beautiful.

Pastor Joby Martin (27:25)

So everything in the context that God gave it is, is, was for the people. Again, people don't think about this too much. So they're coming out of Egypt. They've never made a decision. They're slaves, man. They're told when to wake up, where to go, how to work, what they can eat, what they can't eat, when to lay down, where. I mean there's no decision making, interpersonal, relational. Like how do we resolve a conflict? And so God says, I'm going to give you this gift. And he didn't give, he didn't give the law. Give a test, keep the pastors and kill the failures. That's not what he did. This is a picture of the gospel. He saves them out of Egypt just because he's good. He heard the cries of his people and then as a gift he gives them a law to keep them alive, like as a society. So that was the moral law. Now don't sleep with other people's wives, man. It's not gonna go good. Don't steal, don't covet, keep me. First there's really like one law and then 612 applications. But. And the law is just. If God's first all these other ones will make sense. And then there's this. So then this ritualistic law, it's actually all about cleanliness, is God is holy, set apart, different, other. And so he gives what seems to us a bunch of random things like you're not going to wear a poly cotton blend and it's going to make you different. You're not going to shave your sideburns and your haircuts are going to be different. And you're not going to get piercings because people that worship other idols or belong to other people get piercing. So you're not going to do that. You're not going to get tattoos. Old Testament Israel, because that's how they mark slaves. And you're not slaves, you're free. So y', all, your whole lifestyle and everything's gonna be different. And then when the world is like, wow, you're blessed and you're different, what's different? The whole point was that you would point to God. Then Jesus come not to. Not to do away with the law, but to fulfill it. He's like, I've. I'm completing this law.

Listener/Church Member 1 (29:32)

I think if you carefully read Romans, you'll pick up on how there's multiple ways to understand that word law, right? There's the. There's the actual substance of the word and then there's like the effect. And a lot of times when he's saying the. The. The law and he speaks about it in a negative way, he's talking about the, you know, the effect, the punch that it gives you underneath your own moral strength. And Christ does away with that, but he doesn't do away with the substance of it. The word of it. It becomes fulfilled. It be. It's. It's. We can see it for how beautiful it actually is.

Pastor Joby Martin (30:10)

I heard somebody, I listen to some of your podcast, I think it was Howton, he's like, so Judaism is not a false religion. It's a fulfilled religion. That's it. It's not false. From Genesis to Malachi, it is fulfilled in the person work of Christ. So we're not unhitching. We're not detaching. We're not. But it's like that.

Listener/Church Member 2 (30:33)

It's incomplete.

Pastor Joby Martin (30:34)

That covenant is done. And now we have a new and better covenant relationship with God. Through the grace of Jesus, Moses brought the law. Jesus brought grace.

Listener/Church Member 1 (30:49)

It's like I was trying to think of another way to say that, like, the Model T is not, not a car, it's just been improved. So you mentioned that, that these Pharisees use and abuse the man with the withered hand to try to make their point. That one got on me, man, and I wanted to make a connection between legalism and that. Like, what is it about legalism that would cause you to devalue a person because he says you're treating sheep better than this man, and he's going after their legalism? So what's the connection?

Pastor Joby Martin (31:33)

This is a warning to all of us in any sort of role of spiritual authority, whether it's pastor or father or mother or Bible study leader or whatever it is, if you ever objectify a human being to somehow try to elevate your status, you're actually a wolf and not a sheep or a shepherd. You're a wolf, not a shepherd. You're a hireling, dude. Because the role of the shepherd is lay down his life for the sheep. And the role of the wolf is to use the sheep for their own benefit by devouring them. And man, sadly, the list of is long of people in spiritual authority shaming people to somehow prop them up or. Or using people as, like, an object to prove a point. And, dude, this guy's in the synagogue. This is not. He's not even, like, calling out sin or anything like that. This guy has a withered hand. He's other. He's different. And he's trying to identify him by the thing that the guy is least proud of is in his entire life. And especially. I mean, here's why you got. Here's where you got to, like, get in the text. This withered hand guy, he's got. His name's like, Stan or something. I don't know. You know, he's got a name. People call him Jedediah, whatever his name would be. And he's a man. And I think Eldridge was right when he says that the core question of every man is, do I have what it takes? And in an agricultural society, bro, you're gonna need two hands to, like, plow fields and pick crops. And can you imagine all the insecurities and the. Everything. And then the. The safest place he should be is in the presence of God, God's people, under the teaching of the word of God, with the shepherds taking care of him, and they expose him as a pawn.

Listener/Church Member 1 (33:35)

Yeah.

Pastor Joby Martin (33:37)

And so woe to us if you ever do that. If we ever do that.

Listener/Church Member 2 (33:43)

No doubt. When Jesus says, look, you missed the point, you know, and he. And he says, I desire mercy, not sacrifice. New. Take that in the context of our broader conversation about legalism. And I don't have all the dots connected. You're smarter than me, so you'll, you'll connect them real quick. But the thing that I kept thinking about tonight, especially after that line, I desire mercy, not sacrifice, was one of the areas that I run into. I don't want to call it full blown legalism, but I think you're on a slippery slope in that direction is, you know, here in our context, one of the things that happens often is that people will raise a hand to say, I want to surrender my life to the lordship of Jesus Christ. And the question that I get less now because you've addressed it a few times, but used to get it a lot was, well, how do we know? And where are those people now? And does that really count? And I'm like, I don't. I want to go with mercy, not sacrifice. And so I don't want to get into the like. What I know is, and we've said this many times, what, it's not nothing. It's not nothing. And salvation belongs to the Lord. But at the same time, people hear the good news of the gospel and somehow respond, take a step in that direction. The mercy in me says, praise God, from whom all blessings flow. Like, there's a human mind and a human heart and a human imagination and a human curiosity moving in the direction of God in response to the gospel. I. I'm going to get into splitting hairs over what they do next and how do we really know and how do we. I'm like, ah, so I, I'll desire mercy. You know, it's like, I want to be on the mercy camp. Yeah.

Pastor Joby Martin (35:46)

One of the questions I'll ask is, do you want them to be saved? It's great questions, honestly. It kind of sounds like you don't. Like, they can just get in with raising their hand. You know what I've done? I mean, that's some older brother talk, dude.

Listener/Church Member 2 (36:00)

For sure.

Pastor Joby Martin (36:01)

About one out of a hundred that will ask that question. There's a, There's a sweet old recovering Baptist couple here, and they had a concern for the number of people raising hands. You know what they did? They. They'll peek and if they see somebody raise their hand, they'll just go talk. They'll go, hey, man, I know we're not supposed to. We saw you raise your hand. Can we help you get in a group, get back. That heart actually cares about those people. But the. What are y' all doing? Is. It's an accusation from a point of judgment, not a care for the sheep. These Are. These are very different things. And I'm. I'm happy to be like. I can tell you what we're doing. Here's the thing. Here's the thing. If you go to church for a long time, because, you know, one every. I don't know, less than once a year, I'll say, all right, today we're doing it different. Would everybody look? And I want you to stand up, bro. The number of people black. I love it when you do that, dude. I hear what you're saying. I love it when I do it. I wouldn't do it. But there's a thing in you that's like, you know what it takes to become a follower of Jesus? Everything. You know what I mean? That kind of, like, that sort of

Listener/Church Member 2 (37:18)

attitude of a mustard seed.

Pastor Joby Martin (37:20)

Like, do you know. I mean, we're going to get here in a few weeks, man. It's like the. The parable of the laborers in the vineyard.

Listener/Church Member 1 (37:28)

Oh, yeah.

Pastor Joby Martin (37:28)

And the people that get in last and get the full pay so good, everybody else is like, what? That's not fair. And, dude, I mean, I hate to admit it, but we're church people. And the longer you're in it, the more you start looking at the mirror and liking what you look back, what's looking back at you, and you're like, you know all that I did, and you're gonna throw a party for him. All he did is return, bro. It's the spirit of the older brother, dude, that.

Listener/Church Member 2 (37:56)

I can't wait. I think I preached that here years ago. I'll have to go back and look at the notes and send them to you so that you can ignore them and not use them. But the.

Pastor Joby Martin (38:06)

Oh, I love. I love the video this week. You were preaching about loss of your dad.

Listener/Church Member 2 (38:11)

That's cool, man.

Pastor Joby Martin (38:12)

And it.

Listener/Church Member 2 (38:13)

That blessed me to hear that for sure.

Pastor Joby Martin (38:15)

Yeah. Thank God I wasn't preaching.

Listener/Church Member 2 (38:17)

Yeah, she was not. Thank God that you weren't preaching. But that kind of caught me off guard. Like, I wasn't. I didn't. I didn't see that coming. So a wild bill, man.

Pastor Joby Martin (38:27)

Still discipline.

Listener/Church Member 2 (38:28)

Still doing his thing. Yeah. Praise God, dude. The parable of the Vineyard and the Workers or the laborers in the Vineyard, I think is the right title of it, bro. That's one of the, like, Pinnacle texts on God's sovereign.

Pastor Joby Martin (38:45)

That's right.

Listener/Church Member 2 (38:46)

The sovereignty of God can do whatever he wants. He don't owe you nothing. And everything he does is right and good. And. And it goes to the. It's like, if I could really believe this? Every day of my life, every hour of my life, really believe this. It changes everything about everything, about everything that God does not want anything from me. He only wants things for me. The legalist will pop up and I've done it. The legalist will pop up and be like, well, I mean, he does want obedience from me. Nope, incorrect. He wants obedience for you.

Pastor Joby Martin (39:22)

Right.

Listener/Church Member 2 (39:22)

Because that's where your joy is.

Pastor Joby Martin (39:23)

Right.

Listener/Church Member 1 (39:24)

Do you know what?

Listener/Church Member 2 (39:25)

That part was totally different.

Pastor Joby Martin (39:26)

Totally different.

Listener/Church Member 2 (39:27)

Sorry.

Listener/Church Member 1 (39:27)

Do you know that part? Partly is because I was thinking about this. Like, what is it about the legalistic person that. I mean, the Pharisees, in the name of honoring God, go try to commit murder, you know, and what is it that causes this to the legalist to run over? It's because you mentioned the word, I think, earlier, objectify. So it turns everybody else into objects. Because performance is objects perform tasks. And why is that? Because they view themselves as an object. I'm just a tool in God's hand, and he. He's going to use me for stuff. Therefore, my performance is all that matters. People's performance is all that matters. It's like antithetical to valuing.

Pastor Joby Martin (40:15)

It's means, an end.

Listener/Church Member 1 (40:17)

Yeah.

Pastor Joby Martin (40:18)

And they think, all right, if the end is the holiness of God, it doesn't matter what I do to protect that. Even break the law of God. Right? To protect the law of God.

Listener/Church Member 1 (40:27)

Yeah.

Listener/Church Member 2 (40:29)

Well, it's kind of like what I was talking about at our staff event this week in the Sistine Chapel. And I'm sorry to talk so much, so cut me off anytime. But when I was standing there looking at this, the Sistine Chapel, which is just breathtaking, by the way, it's like a 3D hologram jumping off the ceiling at you. I just. I did have that question, like, does God, like, does this bless God's heart at all? And it comes in this. Where I'm at on it is. I mean, just think about all the labor and all the energy and all the effort and all the, like, money and time and, you know, just what it took to build those cathedrals and to build those ceilings and to paint that thing and. Unbelievable. I mean, obviously wild talent, but just on a work level, unbelievable. It's like, could you do all of that and it not glorify God or bless him at all? And how do you know?

Pastor Joby Martin (41:34)

And your answer?

Listener/Church Member 2 (41:36)

It depends on the motivations of the people.

Pastor Joby Martin (41:38)

That's it.

Listener/Church Member 2 (41:40)

So God looks at the heart.

Pastor Joby Martin (41:41)

We're gonna get here, man. This girl walks in with an alabaster jar and a heart full of gratitude. And there are some people sitting around the table and they're like, does this honor God? And hey, for all the gotcha people out there, check yourself on this one. Literally word for word, what Judas says is, you know, how many poor people you could have fed with that? So when you're critical of a church and what they're doing under the Great Commission and the glory of God and people encountering God, and your primary question is, well, you know, they could have used that money. You know, how many poor people they could have fed that. You're literally quoting Judas. And then Jesus gives the answer. He's like, this is very. Honoring this. Yeah, worth it. Worth every bit of the money spent. But it all had to do with her heart posture of gratitude for what he had done. She was not trying to earn it. She was not trying to put on display for the rest of them. Look, all that I can do for the Lord. No, no, no, no, no, no.

Listener/Church Member 1 (42:50)

Yeah, dude, you said it. You said, like, are we going to do these great works? And you, you said, first we're going to preach the kingdom. Something's got to go first, you know, and so if a feet. If the feed in ministry comes first, then that means the other thing is not first.

Pastor Joby Martin (43:07)

There have been. They're part of the reason we continuously partnered with Compassion International. I was at their home base with West Stafford, this is probably 10 years ago when he was still the president. And they have buried this time capsule. And we were talking about this and you know, Compassion releases children from poverty in Jesus name. And I was like, dude, if it ain't in Jesus name, we're out. And he's like, I'm out too. There have been many feeding programs that in order to reach more people and be more palatable, to raise more money, they have walked away from the in Jesus name part. Then. Then so what? Yeah, well, fed people go to hell. Cool.

Listener/Church Member 1 (43:54)

That's actually kind of what Jesus says in that thing you just mentioned. Right? He's like, there's always going to be poor people to feed, but you're not always going to have me. And she's done. She's done the right thing.

Pastor Joby Martin (44:04)

Right. You know, and you should. The church should feed poor people.

Listener/Church Member 1 (44:07)

Yes.

Pastor Joby Martin (44:08)

And this church does. Yeah, here's, here's my favorite on this. All right, let's back all the way back 2012, we find this Walmart, and I think we spent somewhere around $5 million to renovate it to open the doors. And the criticism that said oh, you know what they could have done with that money? They could have fed the poor. Instead of primarily feeding the poor. What we did is we invested into glorifying God and worship and Word in order to make disciples. So now let's fast forward. If we would have done that, if I'd have taken the. I mean, I'd go to prison. Because if you raise money to plant a church and then you give it to poor people, you go to prison. Like, that's. That's embezzlement. All right? And so. But even if I did go to prison, okay, and we fed poor people one time with $5 million. Okay, cool. That's what we have done. Today. We sponsored 30,000 children with compassion International because we didn't make meals. We made disciples primary. And disciples feed poor people. See, Matthew 25. We'll get there by the end of the Matthew. And today, what's 30,000 times how much is it to sponsor a kid right now?

Listener/Church Member 2 (45:28)

I just did the Math.

Pastor Joby Martin (45:29)

I got $748.

Listener/Church Member 1 (45:32)

Yeah, something like that.

Listener/Church Member 2 (45:33)

Let's keep talking. I'm working on it.

Pastor Joby Martin (45:35)

So. So now what we've done is we've made disciples. We. I mean, last year alone, we sponsored over 4,000, okay? So every single year. Now, we could have given away 5 million once or 6 million, whatever it was, but instead we just obeyed Jesus.

Listener/Church Member 2 (45:53)

17.2 million a year, every year of

Pastor Joby Martin (45:58)

not just feeding poor people, but food, clothing, education, and more important, medical care. And the gospel. 17.2 every year after year for the last 13 years. Now, I haven't been 30,000 for 13 years, but you know what I'm saying? Every single year. So over a million dollars every month as a result, as a fruit. And so check yourself, man. If. If you think that, like, the church does not exist to feed poor people. Yeah, the church exists to the glory of God, But. And. And the best way to glorify God is make disciples. And that means to that lost people get saved, and saved people live sent, and then a fruit of saved people as they act like it. And they're generous with their resources. First and foremost, they bring their first and best to the Lord, and he is the head of the church. And then over and above that, they bring offerings and gifts to do all the other kind of things. Support ministries and sponsor kids. And tell me Jesus's way doesn't work better even if he wanted us to. Like, the best way for this to replicate itself over time and have a compound effect is to make disciples, because disciples obey as opposed to one time handing out what, $5 million worth of food. Yeah. Now we do that, what, every, every quarter regularly. Yeah, we do it every quarter.

Listener/Church Member 2 (47:40)

Can I ask the question?

Pastor Joby Martin (47:42)

And that doesn't even count. We give away 10 of our operating budget, at least to outside ministries. Yeah, if you count benevolence. And that's just like multiplying church effects, you know?

Listener/Church Member 2 (47:52)

Right.

Pastor Joby Martin (47:52)

So. Bro, it's. They just know. Honestly, the critics just don't know the Bible. That's the thing, they don't, they don't know the Bible. So they pick a verse here, there's.

Listener/Church Member 1 (48:04)

Yeah.

Pastor Joby Martin (48:04)

Where Jesus is Talking to the 12 by following him and he didn't have a place to live. Well, he does now. And guess what? It's pimp.

Listener/Church Member 2 (48:13)

Yeah, for sure.

Pastor Joby Martin (48:14)

Well, they, they use gold like pavement, right. Jesus is not poor. He came as a poor man, but now he's reigning in glory. I mean, there's crowns and diadems and lots of jewels. You ran all the jewels? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's blinging, man.

Listener/Church Member 2 (48:35)

On the back in the text, one of the things we see is that Jesus again quotes Isaiah. He goes to this pretty regularly.

Pastor Joby Martin (48:44)

It's his go to book.

Listener/Church Member 2 (48:45)

And I, you know, some people have called Isaiah the fifth gospel and especially certain parts of it. No question. Do you, do you think that's mostly because Jesus, because Isaiah was so messianic in it or was there a relevance to Isaiah's words among the Pharisees instruction and like, were they distorting Isaiah's words more than maybe say another prophet?

Pastor Joby Martin (49:15)

Well, the major and minor prophets are not just in length but like in influence. And so Isaiah would be top of the list and the major prophets. And so he's going to like the most, read the most well known, that sort of thing.

Listener/Church Member 2 (49:31)

Got it.

Pastor Joby Martin (49:32)

And a part of what he says here, by the way, is like, so when it, when, when he's quoting it, the part he's quoting here is he's giving the reason that he's not defending every critique that he is receiving. He's like, I'm doing exactly what God through Isaiah said I was going to do. I don't have to defend me. You ain't going to hear me out in the streets. Like clapping back or commenting on every single person's post is like, he's got bills above now. He'll address one on one the people that are blaspheming the Holy Spirit. But he does not have a counter PR campaign to try to make right the negative things because he just trusts

Listener/Church Member 2 (50:13)

the Lord, no doubt.

Pastor Joby Martin (50:16)

And dude, that's good advice for. Especially in this world of social media and all that stuff. Like, be like Jesus and just keep your mouth shut. People want to say stuff. Say stuff.

Listener/Church Member 2 (50:28)

Yeah, there's a lot of times Jesus said that I hadn't said anything that wasn't given to me by the Father.

Pastor Joby Martin (50:33)

Right.

Listener/Church Member 2 (50:34)

It's like nothing. But I mean, you know, and I don't know, I mean, I get there's some trinitarian like, thing going on there,

Pastor Joby Martin (50:41)

but there's a real good Trinitarian verse in the Isaiah passage. I, the Father, will put my spirit upon him, the Son. But see, then some people that aren't smart be like, trinity's not in the Bible. Neither is commode. But you believe in it, don't you?

Listener/Church Member 2 (50:58)

The word. Yeah, that's right.

Pastor Joby Martin (51:00)

You know.

Listener/Church Member 1 (51:00)

Oh, man, it makes me think of how, you know, you have Gentiles here repeated. You know, anytime you see repetition and you're reading your Bible, this is Matthew, like justice to the Gentiles, his name, the Gentiles will hope. And then you think about later in, in Acts and Peter and Paul and their argument, and it's like another, Another case of like, don't you see that this is meant to expand and, and grow beyond. It's like we've been saying with Matthew the whole time, you know?

Pastor Joby Martin (51:33)

Right.

Listener/Church Member 1 (51:33)

Fulfill what Israel is.

Pastor Joby Martin (51:35)

Yeah. And so what. Jesus is coming. He's. He's in regards to a covenant, he's bringing something new in regards to God's purposes. He's going back to the original statement. Yeah, that's. That's what he's doing.

Listener/Church Member 2 (51:48)

Right. One of the things you said tonight. Just skip ahead in the text a little bit. One of the things you said tonight that I thought was solid gold, when you were talking about your Mac here, you're kind of being like, hey, bro, you say, I've never cast out a demon, but maybe we're thinking about this thing a little too narrow. Like, I don't know exactly how the conversation went, but it was awesome.

Pastor Joby Martin (52:14)

You want to guess which Matt Carrier it was?

Listener/Church Member 2 (52:15)

Yeah, I can guess. His name starts with a Charles and ends with a Martin. But I think that, I think it's. It's such a. What are the words I'm looking for here? I leaned over and I said to Landon, I was listening to it back here and I leaned over and I was like, that is just so good because it's so true. Like, I even. I've seen some pretty whacked out manifestations of evil. I have seen it.

Pastor Joby Martin (52:41)

I know you have.

Listener/Church Member 2 (52:42)

And not exorcism type stuff like what you were talking about, but real dang close. And it's some hybrid of like what would be categorically known as mental illness and just people outside their normal capacities for sure. But I think we can, because of Hollywood or whatever, you get this really narrow view of demonic oppression, demonic activity, how demons are trying to grab on the handles of people's lives, how evil has man, the. The curse of the fall and the. How evil works in and through sickness and that. You know, I know for sure cancer ain't from God.

Pastor Joby Martin (53:30)

Right.

Listener/Church Member 2 (53:31)

So where is it from and what's at work here and what are we even talking about?

Pastor Joby Martin (53:37)

It's at least collateral damage.

Listener/Church Member 2 (53:38)

That's what I'm saying, at minimum is collateral damage. But I thought it was just such a really well timed, very helpful way to think practically about spiritual warfare and fighting back the demons of hell. It's like, like you are do casting out demonstration when God puts you in that position.

Pastor Joby Martin (53:58)

I've gone nose nose with people that were being dominated by suicidal ideation and pray over them. And today walking in the joy of the Lord. If that ain't casting out a demon, what is?

Listener/Church Member 1 (54:12)

Yeah.

Pastor Joby Martin (54:13)

You know.

Listener/Church Member 1 (54:14)

Yeah.

Pastor Joby Martin (54:15)

And I've got a couple of people that come to mind right this second that had single digigit months to live with cancer. And that was years ago when they're walking in no cancer. Well, if that ain't healing, what is? Yeah, you know, totally.

Listener/Church Member 1 (54:31)

It's. It's common for us to take things in the scripture that are I think meant to be exceptions and try to make them the norm. I read this book. There's this guy, David Palleson. Have you ever read any of his books? He's a Christian counselor kind of author, but he has one on spiritual warfare. And his point is most spiritual warfare is the ordinary Christian life, you know. And so you read the Book of Acts about the whatever exorcism to say that that happens. But the normal stuff is like read your Bible and get the word in you and watch it change you. That's actually spiritual warfare. And I think he's right.

Listener/Church Member 2 (55:09)

Super good. So good on Charles.

Pastor Joby Martin (55:11)

And

Listener/Church Member 2 (55:13)

I don't know, that was super meaningful to me because I think it's just where we live, you know.

Pastor Joby Martin (55:18)

And the only reason I brought up. So the reason I pointed out that I had dinner with two of my Mac carriers last night and that one of them pressed on me some because I could have just Left that part out and just been like, I just had an idea that I want to share, but where it comes from matters, dude. So if my Mac carrier sees what he perceives as a blunt, he didn't even perceive it so much as a blind spot in me. As much as I think it's having. I think it's putting a lid on our church. Because when they hear you say, I've never cast out a demon, they go, okay, well, we don't have to do that. And yet Matthew 10 says, we're gonna cast out demons. So. And I'm going for cute, because the joke is still. I got. I'm still gonna say it at some point because it's so funny. You know what I mean? I never cast a demon. Send a seventh grader home for camp. Okay?

Listener/Church Member 1 (56:09)

Right.

Pastor Joby Martin (56:11)

I did have somebody get mad because I thought I was talking about their seventh grader, but I don't. I didn't know what they were talking about. But that sort of like, bro, the wake of your words are not propelling us in obedience. I think it actually might be stifling some obedience. And I'm like, well, I don't want to do that. And, dude, he was so gracious and cautious, which also gave me an opportunity afterwards to be like, okay, I learned in the Enneagram, which might be demonic or it might be just not. I don't know, whatever. A lot of people like to fight about that. That's fine. But one of the things I Learned as an 8 on that thing is that confrontation is endearing to me. Like, I love to be coached. If somebody can make me better and I can kind of like, we. There'd be a little bit of. I didn't. I didn't fight back at all when you. He said this especially. And it's Charles Martin, dude. He's been my dude for so long now. And I mean, man, you want to talk about some deep dive Bible studies together, write four books with a guy, you wrestling with some stuff. You know what I mean? And so if I deputize him to do the very thing that he does, and then I push back on it, who's the there? And so, man, I like him. I didn't know I had another level of like, of Charles Martin in my life. And I like him better today than yesterday because he would love me enough and he would love our church enough to just have the guts to step in. And honestly, who wants to tell the pastor of 1122 got some teaching advice for you? But he did, and I Think our church is blessed by it.

Listener/Church Member 1 (57:56)

I really probably could end with this, but I loved very similar when you connected the return to the unclean spirit to self effort or even like, you know, Christless methods of cleaning yourself up. I thought that was incredible.

Pastor Joby Martin (58:15)

And, and there's some Christless, like deliverance ministry. You want to cast out a demon, but you don't want to share the gospel. What are you doing? You just opening this dude up for a different version of a demon? That's worse because. Because he doesn't manifest so grossly. I mean, bro, trade alcoholism for religious pride. You're worse.

Listener/Church Member 1 (58:33)

Yeah.

Pastor Joby Martin (58:34)

Because if you're an alcoholic, at least you know you're in need all the time. You're constantly reminded that you're not in control. You're closer to the kingdom there than if you think I'm good to go.

Listener/Church Member 1 (58:45)

So back to that Piper quote.

Pastor Joby Martin (58:47)

Yeah, yeah, dude, that's. It's, it's if. If you can turn yourself into a good citizen and a good churchman by sheer willpower, and some people can, you're in trouble because. Because self righteousness, religious pride begins to move in and take the spot of the things that used to rule you. And they don't show their wicked heads.

Listener/Church Member 1 (59:20)

Yeah.

Pastor Joby Martin (59:21)

Like an addiction does.

Listener/Church Member 1 (59:23)

Keller. I was listening to a sermon by Tim Keller and he was saying he was making the comparison of, let's just say Mormons. And he's like, we all know these Mormon people and they're so moral and good. And he was in a conversation where somebody said, oh, so you admit you can be moral without Christ? He's like, yeah, but the point's not to be moral. Right is to be holy. Right is to have union with God. You know, it's not just to live, follow the rules.

Listener/Church Member 2 (59:47)

He doesn't want anything from us, just for us.

Pastor Joby Martin (59:50)

And this will get me. But whatever, let me say it twice for the man in the back. So the religion of Islam and Hinduism and Buddhism and Jehovah's Witness and Mormonism and a Christless evangelicalism based on morality. This is the doctrine of demons. Demons that, that's, that's what happens. So you could bind up the strong man of the flesh and not invite Christ to rule and reign in your life. And you're worse because then the demon of the pride of life moves in and sits on the throne and you think you're good.

Listener/Church Member 2 (60:34)

That's why it starts with repent. For the kingdom of God is at hand.

Pastor Joby Martin (60:37)

Praise God.

Listener/Church Member 2 (60:38)

And that's Jesus's whole ministry. Yeah.

Pastor Joby Martin (60:42)

And I've even, I've even been challenged. There's some friends that I'm, I'm walking through some stuff with and after lots of serious prayer and I've given all kind of tactics I've given and, and I'm resolved that the only word to my friend in need right now is repent.

Listener/Church Member 2 (60:58)

Repent.

Pastor Joby Martin (61:00)

And if you don't man the hell that you're walking through, you're. You're trying to put out the fire of your life with gasoline and repent. And if you'll repent pro the kingdom of heaven, you can just grab right on to it.

Listener/Church Member 1 (61:20)

Well, thank you, Pastor Joby. And this has just been amazing, this text and this, this night. Why don't you close us with any final words in a prayer?

Pastor Joby Martin (61:32)

I loved it. We got the, the worst Mother's Day passage. But while he was still speaking to the people, behold, his mother and his brothers stood outside. And we know, we know Mary believed, but so she's out there with the, with the brothers and sisters who don't believe yet, asking to speak to him because they're going to tell him what to do. And he replied to the man who told him, who is my mother? Who are my brothers? And stretching out his hand toward his disciples, he said, here are my mother and brothers. For whoever does the will of my father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother. That. And the reason I did that post salvation invite was Jesus did not just clean you up. Jesus just invited you into the family as a brother. Yeah, that's the gospel.

Listener/Church Member 2 (62:23)

Amen.

Pastor Joby Martin (62:24)

Amen. Let's pray, Father. By the power of the spirit, in the name of Jesus, we thank you for this word that leads us to you. And in you and you alone is life.

Listener/Church Member 2 (62:45)

Thank you for listening to the podcast the End.

Pastor Joby Martin (62:47)

You nailed it.

Pastor Joby Martin (62:54)

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