Joseph and the Courage to Obey - S25E1

Summary

Podcast Summary: Deepen with Pastor Joby Martin

Episode: Joseph and the Courage to Obey (S25E1)
Date: December 8, 2025
Host: Pastor Joby Martin
Guests: Pastor Britt, other Church of Eleven22 staff

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Episode Theme & Purpose

This episode dives deep into the biblical character of Joseph, focusing on his courage and obedience within the Christmas narrative. The conversation connects Joseph’s story to themes of godly manhood and leadership, particularly in the context of family and faith. The hosts apply Joseph’s example to modern life, challenging listeners—especially men—to stand firm, act with integrity, and center their lives around Jesus.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Vision Behind "Real Men of Christmas"

[02:11-03:41]

• The series spotlights significant male figures in the Christmas story, tying in with the church’s annual theme: “stand firm and act like men.”
• Pastor Joby Martin: “So the men that we’re looking at, what are some godly things that they did... that we could step into those kind of same spaces and places?” (03:19)

2. Joseph's Role and Importance

[03:41-04:09]

• Joseph is acknowledged as Jesus’ legal (adoptive) father, trusted by God to raise Jesus during his childhood.
• Though not Jesus’ biological father, he’s given significant responsibility and honor.

3. Explanation of Betrothal and Jewish Marriage Customs

[04:19-06:41]

• Betrothal in Jewish culture was a binding legal agreement—stronger than modern engagement.
• The groom prepared a place for his bride while the bride waited in purity.
• Clear parallels are drawn between this process and how Christ is “preparing a place” for believers.
• Pastor Britt: “It is now our job...to be ready.” (06:25)

4. Arranged Marriages – Then and Now

[08:41-11:09]

• Hosts discuss pros/cons of arranged marriages versus Western romance-driven models, noting higher statistical success of some arranged marriage cultures—though acknowledging abuses too.
• Pastor Joby: “We have this non biblical definition of love…as opposed to a biblical definition—love is patient, kindness…” (09:53)
• Emphasis on the value of parental involvement and community in forming healthy unions.

5. Parental Responsibility and Dating

[11:10-15:09]

• Pastor Joby shares a vivid metaphor with his daughter’s boyfriend and his prized Harley Davidson to communicate the seriousness of trusting one’s child to another.
• “All I’m trying to do is give him a picture of value and responsibility…” (13:28)
• Discussion of examining potential son-in-law’s calendar, bank statements, and phone to gauge integrity and responsibility.

6. Joseph’s Response to Mary’s Pregnancy

[16:14-19:06]

• Context is given: Mary learns of her pregnancy first; Joseph finds out later and faces a crisis.
• Legally, he could have shamed or divorced her, or even had her executed; instead, he resolves to spare her.
• Pastor Britt: “One of the things that jumped out at me is just how surprised the message of Jesus would have been to Joseph…” (17:54)
• Emphasized: The virgin birth is not only miraculous but essential for the sacrifice of Jesus to be valid.

7. Miracle and Necessity of the Virgin Birth

[18:32-19:53]

• Deep dive into the theological necessity of the virgin birth for the atonement.
• Pastor Joby: “You really have two options. You can either believe in a virgin birth, or you think the universe was birthed by a virgin. Everybody believes in a virgin birth…” (19:07)

8. Divine Revelation and Personal Application

[19:53-21:43]

• Discussion moves to the surprising, personally impacting nature of the gospel.
• Pastor Britt: “It still lands on me fresh over and over again...that God, for his own purposes…chooses to love me…” (21:43)

9. Catholic and Protestant Views on Mary

[22:20-25:17]

• The hosts clarify biblical teaching on Mary, addressing misunderstandings such as her perpetual virginity and the Catholic doctrine of immaculate conception.
• Scripture confirms that Mary had other children and that “knew her not until she had given birth,” implying normal marital relations after Jesus’ birth.
• Pastor Joby: “It’s just not true that Mary went on to have more children, which means she had sex post the birth of Jesus.” (24:19)

10. Mercy, Law, and Divine Instruction: Joseph’s Moral Dilemma

[25:18-27:59]

• Just because the law allowed Joseph to divorce Mary doesn’t mean it was the right choice—God’s instruction surpasses the law.
• Pastor Britt: “What God could and should do legally to me is to leave me…But...he did not. What he did was pay full price for me…” (27:01)

11. Joseph as a Protector and Provider

[30:04-31:58]

• Joseph’s role in protecting his family—fleeing to Egypt, providing in the face of danger—is highlighted.
• The discussion includes reflection on Joseph’s practical skills, faithfulness, and courage—contrasting godly masculinity with worldly posturing.
• Joseph is noted as a man of action, not words; no recorded speech from him in the Bible, only godly deeds.

12. Joseph’s Legacy and Godly Manhood

[32:41-36:53]

• Joseph models diligent provision, obedience, and spiritual leadership in his home.
• He embodies faithfulness to both family and God’s commands—doing what’s right, consistently and sacrificially.

13. Obedience, Faith, and the Cost of Following God

[37:16-40:06]

• Faith means taking hard, uncomfortable, even risky action in response to God’s leading.
• Pastor Joby: “Can you think of one thing in the Bible where God called somebody to something that was fun and comfortable and easier?...I can't think of one. Okay, so follow me. Make you fishers of men. You're gonna die and upside down on a cross.” (39:14)
• Obedience is consistently portrayed as requiring difficult, courageous choices.

14. Personal Stories: Fatherhood and Righteous Influence

[42:35-48:25]

• Hosts share personal stories about their fathers modeling righteousness, faithfulness, and responsibility—tying back to Joseph’s example.
• Pastor Joby: “You just do what’s right, no matter the cost, no matter the consequences…” (45:19)
• Suffering, sacrifice, and consistent presence mark godly fathers.

15. Joseph’s Place in Redemption and Genealogy

[49:13-50:45]

• Joseph comes from a lineage filled with brokenness—demonstrating that God redeems and uses imperfect people.

16. Lessons from Joseph: What Should We Imitate?

[51:16-54:42]

• The true lesson isn’t mere copying of character traits—rather, filled with the Spirit, aim at Christlikeness.
• Pastor Britt: “If you were to say, what did Joseph do that I could learn from? He put Jesus at the middle of all of it…” (52:03)
• Joseph said “yes” to God, reorienting his entire life around Christ—often at personal cost and uncertainty.

17. Obedience as the Path of Abundant Life

[54:42-55:40]

• Pastor Joby: “We think that abundant life is a reward for obedience. But Jesus is saying, abundant life is obedience. Because what you get is not his blessing. You get him, that's it. You get him. And apart from him, you can do nothing.” (55:04)

18. Honorable Manhood in Action

[56:07-57:31]

• Joseph’s refusal to consummate the marriage prematurely is seen as evidence of his desire to honor God’s purposes above his own.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “All I’m trying to do is give him a picture of value and responsibility…” - Pastor Joby, speaking of the Harley Davidson analogy (13:28)
• “It's not hard for me to believe that I'm a sinner. That is not surprising to me.” - Pastor Britt (21:19)
• “Everybody believes in a virgin birth. You either believe there was a creator and Jesus was born of a virgin, or there was...a virgin universe that gave birth to the cosmos.” – Pastor Joby (19:07)
• “He doesn’t say. There’s not one word recorded from him [Joseph] in all of scripture. No words. But he did a lot to protect and provide for his family.” – Pastor Britt (31:58; 32:28)
• “What does it mean to put God first? Jesus is at the center. And that's what Joseph did...He put Jesus at the middle of all of it.” – Pastor Britt (52:03)
• “We think that abundant life is a reward for obedience. But Jesus is saying, abundant life is obedience. Because what you get is not his blessing. You get him, that's it.” – Pastor Joby (55:04)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Series Vision / “Real Men of Christmas” Introduction: [02:11-03:41]
• Betrothal Explained & Parallels to Christ: [04:19-06:41]
• Parental Involvement in Marriage/Dating: [11:10-15:09]
• Joseph’s Response to Mary’s Pregnancy: [16:14-19:06]
• Virgin Birth Discussion: [18:32-19:53]
• Mary in Protestant vs. Catholic Doctrine: [22:20-25:17]
• Joseph’s Merciful Decisions: [25:18-27:59]
• Joseph as Protector & Provider: [30:04-31:58]
• Personal Stories of Fatherhood: [42:35-48:25]
• Lessons from Joseph / Application: [51:16-54:42]

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Takeaways

• Joseph’s story challenges men (and all listeners) to ground their actions and decisions in obedience to God, regardless of risk, cost, or cultural expectations.
• Obedience, not mere outward religiosity or comfort, is the path to an abundant life in Christ.
• True manhood, as modeled by Joseph, involves presence, faithfulness, courage, and humility—while centering one's life around Jesus.
• God can redeem any background or lineage, as demonstrated by Joseph’s place in Jesus’s story.
• Pursuing godliness often means making hard, countercultural choices and trusting God’s purposes above personal desires.

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Summary Prepared For:
Listeners seeking to understand Joseph’s character, his role in the story of Jesus’s birth, and how faithful, courageous obedience applies to their own walk with Christ—especially during the Christmas season.

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to Deepen with Pastor Joby Martin. The Church of 1122 is a movement for all people to discover and deepen a relationship with Jesus Christ. And we're praying this message helps you deepen your relationship with him. Now let's dive in.

[B]

Well, in a year of stand firm and act like men, I can't think of a better series than one inspired by Budweiser.

[C]

Oh, yeah, the real men of Christmas. That's old school, though, bro. There's not a lot of people that remember that.

[B]

Is that from the 90s?

[C]

It had to be the 90s. It had to be 90s.

[B]

I still remember when those came on, like during the super bowl and stuff. That was pretty funny. Pastor Britt, you love Christmas.

[C]

I do love it.

[B]

How long has the Christmas stuff been up at your house?

[C]

Since the day after Halloween.

[B]

All right.

[C]

Yep. Trees up. We do a little, like, hybrid thing for a minute. We got pumpkins and folly stuff and Christmas stuff out. So we're just full hearts, man. We're celebrating the whole thing on.

[B]

Do you have a favorite Christmas song?

[C]

Well, my favorite fun Christmas song is the Elf Song by David Crowder. He put a record out a couple years ago called Milk and Cookies. The Elf song is my favorite. I have never heard that song.

[D]

Me either.

[C]

Are you kidding me?

[B]

The elf song?

[C]

The elf song, bro, is so great.

[B]

Better be an instant classic.

[C]

His record, Milk and Cookies, is the funnest Christmas album ever made.

[B]

I love that.

[C]

Probably, you know, you get Josh Groban or somebody who can really pipe doing oh, Holy Night, you know, that's a tough one to beat, you know?

[B]

Right on. Pastor Joby, do you like Christmas songs?

[D]

I do, but just confined to Christmas.

[B]

Merry Christmas from the family Montgomery.

[D]

That's probably my favorite.

[B]

I love that.

[C]

I've been writing some AI Christmas songs.

[B]

Have you?

[C]

Let me send them to you.

[D]

Yeah, please. But like, the Home Alone soundtrack would be like the kind of the track I run like, you know, it's, it's going to beginning to look a lot like Christmas and all that fun stuff and then, and then. But they're going to hit it with a little Boyd's choir of oh, Holy Night for sure.

[C]

Rocking around the Christmas tree.

[D]

Yeah, all that. I, I. It's one of my favorite movies. Christmas time movies.

[C]

The best.

[B]

Have you ever been to the symphony where they play the music while the movie is going?

[D]

No. Sounds awesome.

[B]

They do that around Christmas time. Well, we're, we're in the series and it's Christmas season now, so here we go. Pastor Joby, why. Why this series in this year? And is it like we're looking at the characters or is it directed at men?

[C]

Both.

[B]

What. What's the vision for a real Men of Christmas in the year of Stanford?

[D]

People don't think about this, but if you're a pastor, dude, Christmas is hard because name but two texts, basically, you know, and, like, how many different angles can you come at it?

[C]

And so Revelation 1 year.

[D]

Yeah, that's it. Revelation 12. Let's go.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

13 is crazy. So, I mean, that's part of it. We're in this year of Stanford men, and there's some significant men that play significant roles in the story of Christmas, including Jesus. And so that was it. I mean, this is kind of how the theme of the year impacts what we study. That's it.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

And you can't go wrong if you just have some text to read and learn from. But I just think it's a good idea to take different angles at some familiar texts. Yeah. Because, I mean, the connection I want to make is like, all right, dude, so don't you want to be a real man of Christmas this year in your home, in your family, in your office? So what does that look like? What are some of the. I mean, this is a bit character study ish, you know? So the men that we're looking at, what are some godly things that they did with the help of the Holy Spirit and in our effort to stand up and act like men in this season of Christmas that we could step into those kind of same spaces and places.

[B]

Yeah. And this week, we're talking about one of the men, Joseph. Pastor Brit, bringing the word about the. Would you call Joseph the father of Jesus?

[C]

Most would say adopted father because he is legally bound as the earthly father. So I can get there. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

The sort of father the man trusted to raise Jesus in his child years.

[D]

I think the Bible calls him, like, when people say, is this not the son of Joseph the carpenter? That's fine.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[D]

But, yeah, theologically speaking, he was not begotten of Joseph.

[B]

Right, right, right.

[D]

Correct.

[B]

And we're going to talk a little bit about his life because he's. He's this figure that, you know, doesn't get a lot of real estate in the scripture, but in this text, in Matthew, talk about this word betrothal, because it's not a word that we're familiar with. If we're going to get ready to get married, we get engaged. So how is that different from betrothal?

[C]

Yeah, we talk about The Jewish wedding process is two part. There's the betrothal and then there's the consecration or the ceremonial marriage. The betrothal is a year long process that starts normally arranged by the parents. Generally the male would be a bit older than the female. The female would be around 13 to 14 years old. That's why you hear people say all the time that Mary was a teenage girl. It's because of Jewish history. She would have been around 13 or 14 years old. And the betrothal process starts with a. It's a legal certification, there's a legal process, there's a gift exchange, kind of like a dowry. But it's actually where we get our practice of wedding rings is that the, the Jewish custom at some point turned into rings to like an engagement ring. But they were legally married, not just intending to be married, but they lived apart for a year and they didn't have sex for a year. They didn't consummate the marriage even, even though they were betrothed together. And so we're in that one year process here in the, in Matthew 1 and in Luke 1, that's where Joseph's at. So the point of it is that the man accepts responsibility and then he, he goes and prepares a place that is fit for his bride. That's his commitment. And then the bride keeps herself pure and ready for that year. That's her commitment. And so in that we see all kinds of Christological pointing. You know, Jesus has legally bound himself to us through the cross and through the resurrection, in the process of salvation and justification. But we are very much in a waiting period as he has gone to prepare a place for us, that we'll spend eternity with him in a house that he prepared. And he has accepted full responsibility for us. And it is now our job to Parable of the ten virgins, be ready.

[D]

Yeah. And the consummation would happen before the celebration. So when you get married, technically it's not like, I mean legally in our country it is when you say I do. But biblically speaking is when the two become one. The only time God speaks out loud in Song of Solomon is at the consummation of the wedding. And that is where he says, eat and drink, have your fill. And then if he'll remember like the parable of the virgins waiting on the wedding party, they don't know exactly when it's going to start. They know about when it's going to be because it's the year of betrothal. And what they're waiting is for the, for the groom to take the bride and the two become one. And what God is doing together, no one can tear apart. And then they announce it to everybody. They're like, all right, it's on. We just con. We just joined together after a year of waiting, and now everybody parties. Like, even our, even our Amer. The way we do it in the Western world, we don't. It's not really the same way they did it in the Bible. And I'm not saying we should change all of that, but it's just very different. You know, I mean, imagine if you're like, all right, we're getting married, save the date. Somewhere between February 14th and 28th. We're, you know, and so you're just kind of hanging out. And then if you go back to like the wedding at Canaan, this what Pastor Brit is saying, this guy's got a year to get his affairs in order. This is very Genesis 3, 2 and 3. Like Adam named everything. He got his world in order before God would allow a woman to enter into his world. Okay, so you got a year to get your affairs in order, yada yada. And then the thing to put on display for the world and especially the father of the bride is based on what I'm. This party I'm going to throw. I'm going to prove to you I have what it takes to keep my household under control. And then in this wedding, the guy runs out, they run out of wine, and the, the, the groom would be shamed, bro. Like, wait, what? Bro, you don't have what it takes to be a husband. And so Jesus has compassion and does a miracle to help him out.

[B]

Right?

[D]

Yeah, it's pretty cool.

[C]

Question for pontification. Is pontification a right word?

[B]

Here?

[C]

I used it. Arranged marriages, huh? Let's talk about the lights and the shadows here.

[D]

Okay.

[C]

Straight up. As a, as a dad to a teenage daughter.

[D]

I like it.

[C]

It doesn't sound like the worst idea I ever heard.

[D]

No doubt. Statistically runs about the same, if not a little better.

[C]

Yeah. Hard. I did a little research on this divorce rate right now. It's hard to know in arranged marriages cultures.

[D]

Yeah. Because you might get shot in the face if you try to leave.

[C]

Yeah, that's right. Yeah.

[D]

There's a lot of other cultural influences. Yeah.

[C]

There's a lot of abuses and on all sides, 100, you know. But I do think there's something to the parents being heavily involved in the decision making process, especially on first marriages, especially sometime between mid to late teens. Well, now, in Our culture, It's certainly like 20s.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

You mean you make, make other than following Jesus, you make the most important decision you're ever going to make and what our pretty much the dumbest years of your life.

[D]

Yeah. Physiologically, the frontal cortex is not full fully developed until you're 24 or 25 years old.

[C]

Yeah. So there's some pros to it. Sitting here, sitting here today, you know, a lot.

[D]

I'm, I'm. I mean, yeah, we have this non biblical definition of love that has a lot to do with just kind of like Latin romance poetry, the idea of Cupid and things. As opposed to a biblical definition of what love is, patient kindness, you know, those kind of things. Right. Doesn't keep a record of wrong. Always hope, always trusts, always perseveres. And so in this communal society, you would not fathom marrying somebody without the full support of your family and understanding those those two families in some ways are going to be joined together. Your own family is your new nuclear family. But you are heavily connected. And I mean, listen man, I'm really, I try to be careful about putting my children's dating life out there for the world. Okay. However.

Reagan is dating a boy right now, very new. And we know the family very well and we are getting together together as parents to talk about let's all stack hands and be on the same team as this 16 and 17 year old are going to do what Americans call dating. Does that make sense? This isn't betrothing anything, but it makes a. You know how good it is when the person your kid likes is goes to your church and their family goes to the church and their family loves Jesus and we're all willfully stacking hands together and then we've pre decided, strictest parent wins. That's what we've decided. So if three of the four of us are like, yeah, we think that's a good idea and one goes, I don't like it, then we don't like it and it's just great. I think that's way better than like, I can't get my mind around the people that let their daughter go out with somebody and they just don't even know the people, not just the person, you know what I mean? So I just hope that God would.

[C]

Give me the favor with my girls. I prayed that this morning that I got you would give me the favor with my kids, that they want me involved, I'm going to be involved. I just want them to want me to be involved.

[D]

So this boy is supposed to Come to our house tomorrow for me to have a little talk with him. What I'm not gonna do. I'm not. I'm not doing the. I think it's a mistake to do the. Like, I'm cleaning my shotgun because I don't want to be an adversary. I want to be a support.

But I will have had this conversation before this comes out, so I'll tell you what I'm going to do. I'm gonna say I'm gonna take him in my garage, and I have a 2023.

Harley Davidson street glide that is pimped out to the max. This thing is ba. You've seen me ride it. I love it very much. It's all polished, it's ready to roll. I got a special light I'm shining on it right now, and I'm gonna tell this. I'm gonna hand him the keys. I'm like, hey, man, you want to drive my Harley? And he's probably gonna say, no, I'm gonna walk because I don't know how to ride one. Right? Yeah, you don't have the experience or the ability to take care of this. And I'm about to let something that is infinitely more important than this motorcycle get in your car and drive off. And honestly, you don't have the experience as a 17 year old to take care of her, you know, and so I'm here to help. If you ever find yourself in a place where you need to help, you call us because we're here to help. I'm gonna brag on him. He's a good godly kid. Praise God for all that. All I'm trying to do is give him a picture of value and responsibility, and he knows there's no chance in the world I wouldn't. I might let him sit on my motorcycle. And I'm gonna let him take my girl.

Unsupervised for hours.

Places. Yeah, we're gonna. We're gonna. I just want him to feel the weight of the responsibility that both sets of mamas and daddies are trusting each other with. That's all. And we're here to help. Not beat you up, not threaten you, but just feel the weight of it. That's the plan.

[C]

Yeah. I've kind of pieced this together from a few different folks. And who's to say what I'll do when I get there?

[D]

I don't know.

[C]

But the thought, the current thought I have right now is that whenever the day comes, not for a date, not for a boyfriend, girlfriend, but somebody wants to Marry my girls. Yeah. There's three pieces of information that I think I'm gonna ask for. One is your calendar, second is your bank statements, and third is your phone.

[D]

Yeah, I look at giving record too. That's.

[C]

That's the bank statement.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

And I don't care how much money you have, I care who's first in your money. That's right, I don't care.

[D]

Yeah. Because I don't want my daughter to marry a thief.

[C]

That's exactly right.

[D]

And you rob God. Ain't no chance you getting married to my girl.

[C]

So no thieves, no perverts. That's the phone thing. And then the calendar thing is. Do you know how to manage your time?

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

If you can't make it bad, it make you busy.

[C]

That's right. So if you don't know how to manage your time, I'm not sure you're going to know how to manage the household. You know what I mean? And. And so those are kind of the. At least three categories of things that we're going to have discussions around to better understand. And the. And the point of it, one is informational. Two is I would love to be a part of the disciple making process of whomever God brings into my family.

[D]

What you hope and pray is not an adversarial relationship.

[C]

Totally.

[D]

So, for instance, when my brother Russ met Shanna and they. They didn't date very long and we got to know her, we were like, all right, dude, if you don't marry her, we might keep her and get rid of you. You know what I mean?

[C]

Right.

[D]

Because he was the best version of himself that we had ever known him. And I've known him obviously his entire life. And so in the ideal, that's what you're hoping. You know, when Maggie married Justin, man, we're just like, of course you say yes to this. This is the best thing that's ever happened to you. That's. That's the ideal when you got family members just cheering, cheering this thing on. That's what happens here. People are, listen, man, Romeo and Juliet is a tragedy. It is a tr. And that's literally in the category of literature. It's called tragedy because a boy and a girl step outside, like, everything goes bad. And I get it, maybe. And their parents are the worst because they all hate each other. All right? They die tragically. It doesn't go good.

[C]

So one of the things that stands out about Joseph in Matthew 1 and Luke 1, and we talk a bit about this, is I'm piecing this together so if I'm wrong, God have grace on me. But.

Luke 1 is the account of John the Baptist. And then it goes to Jesus. Elizabeth gets pregnant. It's this huge thing. And then Mary goes to. It says, Mary goes to Elizabeth's house for three months. And then somewhere in there, it seems that we pick up in Matthew 1, okay? And Joseph finds out that Mary is pregnant. And we're a couple of months in. Is there a baby bump? Where are we in the process? Are we sure that the baby survived based on medical of the time and just re. You know what I mean? Like Mary. Not. Not. She knows God said. But other than that, she don't know what. She don't know. You know what I mean? And Joseph finds out, and so he's very surprised. And so it seems that Mary had some time to process this, and the information came pretty fast at Joseph, and he had to make a decision, shame her, which he totally could have legally divorce her quietly or not. Or the third option is marrier. He resolves to divorce her quietly. One of the things that jumped out at me is just how surprised the message of Jesus would have been to Joseph. I think he probably knew that there was a promise through the line of David that the Messiah would one day come. He just never thought it would be him.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

And so he gets this information and he's, like, a bit surprised about it. I don't know. One of the things I love about it and one of the things I love about you, Pastor Joby, is there's a reality to the message of Jesus that's just surprising. It's just a surprising message. One. It's a miracle. It's an absolute miracle. We're talking about a virgin birth. You cannot separate the virgin birth from the atoning sacrifice, from the perfect life, from. It's all one thing. There's no. It's an absolute miracle. There is no way Jesus can be the perfect sacrifice for sins if he's not born of a virgin.

[D]

Correct. See Romans 5.

[C]

It's the only way.

[D]

Correct.

[C]

And so it's that Rob Bell, right.

[D]

When he writes in velvet Elvis, is your faith really balanced on this thing that may or may have not have happened called a virgin birth? What if it isn't? Does your whole faith fall apart? You'd be like, bro, what? And then you see where he ends up. He ends up erasing hell. You know what I mean?

[C]

The only way you can get there is to not believe in inherent sin. The sin is not transferred. That's the only way to get there like that we're not. That we're born with. Another option other than that is with a sinful nature.

[D]

You really have two.

[C]

There's no other way to get there.

[D]

You really have two options. You can either believe in a virgin birth or you think the universe was birthed by a virgin. Those are your two options.

Everybody believes in a virgin birth. You either believe there was a creator and Jesus was born of a virgin, or there was not a creator and there was this virgin universe that gave birth to the cosmos. That we see one seems way more doable than the other. That nothing created something and that from non conscious conscious came nothing made matter and matter made conscience. Or there's a creator and a creator created his son in the womb of a willing participant. I. I mean to quote Joe Rogan, I think I'm gonna stick to Jesus on this one. That one makes more sense.

[C]

I think there's. Yeah, I think there's a. There's a bunch of surprising things. I think sometimes it lands on people. They're surprised. I'm sorry, let me go back. One of the things that I was saying about you, Pastor Joby, that has always struck me as a friend and pastor and brother is I've seen you, I can't count how many times, just start crying over your own salvation. There still surprises you a little bit, you know, or a lot of bit very much so that God gave you divine revelation, which is what we see here. Why does Joseph choose to marry Mary? Because an angel showed up and he was given the divine revelation of the good news of Jesus and his part in is divinely revealed. So that's surprising to some people, is that you don't wake up in the morning and just be like, you know what? Today's the day. Yep, I'm going to follow Jesus and love God with all my heart, soul, mind and strength of my own fruition. N man, you didn't like, you didn't even want to have anything to do with it. The Bible goes as far as to say we were hostile, we were enemies is how the Bible categorizes us. And then God loves us so much that he divinely wakes us up in our stumber in our. In our. In our sleep and gives us the good news of Jesus. Man, what a gift. So some people are surprised that they're sinners. Some people are surprised by divine revelation. The people I was thinking a lot about as I'm writing this is the people that are surprised by the message and have a hard time believing the message that God loves you because I've been there. I've been there. It's not hard for me to believe that I'm a sinner. That is not surprising to me.

[D]

Yeah. But you, you could fall into the more like, I'm useful, not lovable.

[C]

Totally.

[D]

I'm. I'm used to not wanted for sure. Like I'm. I'm a frontline soldier in the army of God as opposed to I'm a beloved son at the table of God.

[C]

Yeah. It still lands on me fresh over and over again. That God, for his own purposes and sake, chooses to love me and wants you. Right.

[D]

He gets a kick out of like, honestly, you preaching the Lord of Hosts is like, look at my dude. Seriously. You know what I mean?

[C]

It's crazy.

[D]

Crazy like delighted in your sermon and you ain't gonna say one thing. He don't know for sure, you know, he's not like taking notes, but he is delighting in you preaching.

[B]

Before we move on from, from Mary, Pastor, would you, would you talk a little bit to the Catholics or former Catholics that are part of our church? And you know, we talked about immaculate conception. And the liberal point of view would say that because that word virgin can also mean young woman. It didn't necessarily mean virgin like we're.

[D]

Saying, but just got to look at.

[B]

The text we dealt that. What about somebody.

[D]

Hold on, but don't pass by that one. So correct. In Isaiah, the Hebrew virgin, the assumption was she has not had sex yet because she is not yet married. Okay, but so, but the word would be interchangeable. They call every 14 year old girl that word.

[B]

Right, Right.

[D]

But the text Mary says is. But I have you not yet been with a man.

[B]

Right.

[D]

So what it just says what it says. So what what people are doing is they're standing in authority over the word. In their ninth grade biology class, they see a supreme as opposed to the word of God.

[B]

And then.

Somebody else on staff sending their, one of their kids to a Catholic school here in town and came home and asked about, asking them a lot of questions now about the stuff that they're learning. And one of the things that is in Catholic doctrine is something called like Mary being sinless or her being perpetually a virgin. Why is that too far?

[D]

Because it's not what the Bible says. It's called the deification of Mary. Okay. So they take the blessing of Mary like in the Mary in the magnificent, and then she will be blessed above all. That's. Okay, good. You just got to stick with the words. So essentially I mean, one of the fundamental differences between Catholicism and Protestantism is that we believe that the Bible is authoritative and the Catholic Church believes that the Pope, that that church history and the Bible are three legs of the same stool of authority. And so some people, I'm just telling you, I mean, we were there, I was in Rome, and they have these statues of the deification of Mary sitting at the right hand of God the Father today with Jesus. None of these things are in the Bible.

[B]

Right.

[D]

People, smart guys with pointy hats and you know, the authenticating, pontificating.

With, with the power of the Roman Catholic Church through. They made it up. They made it up. They just added things to it. The Bible makes it clear that Jesus had brothers and sisters. And so you got to do some serious hermeneutical gymnastics to try to make that mean. Well, that just meant, like his disciples. No, that's not what the words say, you know, and so it's just not true that Mary went on to have more children, which means she had sex post the birth of Jesus.

[C]

What does. Verse 25. But Joseph knew her not until.

[D]

Right.

[C]

She had given birth to a son and called his name Jesus.

[D]

And then he knew her.

[C]

Yeah, he got her like Social Security number. Is that we're asking. I mean, come on, man, what are we talking about?

[D]

Well, we're. And it's very obvious. In Genesis chapter three, it says. Or in chapter four, and Adam knew Eve and she bore a son. So that, that means to consummate the relationship. So they made some stuff up and then built a theology around it that is not biblical. Yeah. And so honestly, you, you have to repent of things that people make up that are not biblical. One other thing on Pastor Brits, you know, what, what is, what is Joseph going to do when he finds out she's pregnant? And.

Just because the Bible allows a thing does not necessarily mean that's the thing you should do.

John 2. Five still rules. Just because legally he could write a certificate of divorce, and that was an allowance, that does not mean that's God's will for the life of Joseph in this particular situation. And let me fast forward to today. If there's infidelity in the marriage, even though there is the allowance, because infidelity breaks the covenant and you could walk away and not fall under the sin of adultery or the sin of that kind of divorce, that does not mean that's what God is telling you to do. Just because Paul says, as far as it is up to you, live peaceably with all men. That does not mean that reconciliation is off the board. Because you're like, well, I tried twice, Even though it's allowed. Does that make sense?

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

And so just because the Bible allows things does not mean that that is a command, that that is what you need to do in a particular situation.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And you see the Father heart of God there.

[D]

Right.

[C]

What God could and should do legally to me.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Is to leave me to my own devices, turn me over to my own sin, and let me live in the consequences of it by my own choices forever and ever and ever. That's what he should do and could do.

[D]

Right.

[C]

And be totally justified. Right. Holy, pure and perfect. Having done that, that is not what he did. What he did was pay full price for me to reconcile himself to me because he loves me.

[D]

Yep.

[C]

So because he's trying to be right according to the law, you see Joseph.

[D]

Submitting and surrendering his will to the will of God. You know, he's a good man because he's not going to shame her.

[B]

Right.

[D]

You know, but he's still a man. He's like, all right, that ain't. That didn't work out. And then God sends a messenger. He's like, no, no, this is part of my plan. And so he submits his will because his will was to divorce her quietly. And now his will is, we're gonna do what you say tell me to do, not what I want to do.

[B]

Yeah. It would have been. It would have been a merciful thing to divorce her quietly because legally, he could have had her. I mean, he could have had her killed.

[D]

Correct?

[B]

Right.

[D]

Right.

[B]

In Deuteronomy 22, it's like, if she's not a virgin, she. She can be stoned to death.

[C]

Right.

[B]

And it's. I think it's hard for people to wrap their minds around the, like, the consequences of what would happen. Like, she would be terrified, probably, to hear this news. Terrified about her, about what she was going to go through because of what people would think.

[D]

And if she doesn't have a husband that leads and loves, well, nobody flourishes.

But honestly, the kind of guy that lead foot is going to be. Mercy is also going to be the kind of guy that is going to receive God's instructions in a dream and do what he says.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Because what he's seeing is, wow, God's actually being merciful to me.

[B]

That may have been the reason she went to visit Elizabeth.

[C]

You know, for sure. It's at least part of it. Get out of Dodge for a minute.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Go to a trusted place. A safe place. Somebody who loves you who also is undergoing her own miracle. Yeah. You know, so.

[D]

All right, so while we're just trying to hit the nail on the head on all these things, did you see that dumb Democrat.

Seminary grad who's a House Representatives or something was on Rogan and he was pro abortion and says he's a Christian and he says, and the reason is. Cuz it's. Life doesn't begin till breath. You see this guy?

[B]

What?

[D]

Yeah, because. Because they say because God breathed into Adam and that's when he became a living creature. Okay. So Mary could abort Jesus while he's at Elizabeth's house and we're good. Because Jesus is not yet fully God and fully man. It breaks down there every single time.

[C]

Every time.

[D]

Ask that person, anybody that claims Jesus is Lord, then could Mary decide to take the life of the baby in the womb who was recognizable as the King by John the Baptist because he leapt, not a clump of cells.

[B]

Okay. Yeah, So I like that.

[C]

Well, that's one of the things we see. You see it all throughout the scripture. You see here with Herod why they have to flee to Egypt. Part of Joseph being a good man as he's protecting his family from evil tyrannical rulers. He is fleeing.

An evil leader who is advocating and has ordered, legally ordered. There are legal orders to kill children.

[D]

And I'm telling you, there was a section of the people that if Romans 13 was written at that point they would be quoting it and they would actually be like memorize teaching on Elijah. They would be like Obadiah, just go along to get along.

[C]

Yeah, same demons, bro.

[D]

Same demons. And instead of fighting, listen, that's why you should be a good citizen until doing so means you can't be a good Christian and then your allegiance is to his kingdom. So if, if the government tells you to do something that the Bible says, don't you disobey the government or the, if the government says don't do a thing that the Bible says do, then you disobey the government. See Jesus, Jesus actively participated in a rebellious act against his government because they're trying to kill him, they flee to Egypt. That's a good, that's a good call on.

Joseph wasn't just meek and mild and loved his family and did read the Jesus story Bible to him at night by the trough. No, no. He had the resources and the wherewithal to do what the angels told him to do and then flee to Egypt and they got to eat and they got to travel and they got to. He figured it out.

[C]

Yeah. Being chest beating, narcissistic edge. Trying to get noticed in this world.

[D]

Oh yeah.

[C]

Is different than being a godly man.

[D]

You know, you said something right before we started recording that. I've never noticed that there's no quotations of Joseph.

[C]

He doesn't say. There's not one word recorded from him in all of scripture. No words.

[D]

Because it, it talks about what he does. So in my mind I think, well, no, he said that, didn't he? And you're like, he actually did it.

[B]

Wouldn't that be an interesting study? All the people in the Bible who are, who have no recorded words. There's more than just Joseph.

[C]

For sure. He'd be up there to the top.

[D]

Though of most influential, significant players in this narrative.

[C]

I mean there's things about Joseph we just don't like. He didn't say anything.

But he did a lot to protect and provide for his family. Egypt is certainly an example of that. He was a, a, a, a good man in, in a lot of different ways we see it here. But he showed up for the Passover feast every year.

[D]

Right.

[C]

You know that he was doing the like religious practices and I think happy to do so. He went to Bethlehem for the census because he's from David and the whole, the whole thing. And, and so he's trying to do his best to do right in the system that he's living in. Like he's not just a rebellious spirit, but he's also going to draw a line and say, nah man, you don't get to kill my kid.

[D]

He's also a hard worker man. I mean, you know, when you read the word carpenter, it's more like stone mason today. You know, there's a lot more stone than wood, but same kind of thing. But he's got like a, I mean this is a skilled laborer. This is a guy that go, goes to work and works hard and then raises his boy in the family business for a long time and raises his boy in such a way at some point nobody knows. But after 12 pre 30 of Jesus's life, Joseph is gone. He's dead. He's not mentioned anymore except for the one time they're in this the son of Joseph. But you know, he doesn't show up on the scene, so. But yet he also raised his son to be able to take care of his family in his absence. Like there's a long list of the qualities of a godly man from a guy that never.

Has no Instagram post about his hot take on what's happening in Jerusalem. Yeah.

[C]

I mean, do you think he rolled into Bethlehem and negotiated with the innkeeper? There's no room. In the end, you think the innkeeper was like, I don't have any room, but by all means, just take the stable. I don't know if you've ever been to Israel, but doing business deals, let's just say it's a pretty shrewd. They're pretty shrewd.

[B]

Yep.

[C]

Not unkind, but they're. They're. Some of them are unkind. Like the guy that tried to fight you at the Wailing Wall. But that's a whole nother. That's a whole nother story.

But they're very shrewd. So Joseph had to have some. Some wit to him, some wits about him to. To get all these things done. For sure. One of the things that you. I think it's worth. While we're on the history of Joseph, why wasn't he at the cross? Most historically believe that sometime between when Jesus was at the temple around like 10, 12 years old. He was 12. He's in the teachings temple on. And they all leave to go back home and Jesus still in the temple, and they get down the road and they're like, where's Jesus and his mom? And it says, and his parents went to look for him.

[D]

Correct.

[C]

So the implication is that Jesus is still alive or that Joseph is still alive there.

[D]

Y.

[C]

He doesn't show up at the cross. And at the cross, John takes responsibility for Mary, which would have been a very cultural thing to do for a widow.

[D]

Correct.

[C]

So sometime between 12 and 33, Joseph.

[D]

Passed away or even the beginning of his ministry.

[C]

The beginning, yeah. We don't see him there either.

[D]

He's never in. Jesus isn't introduced as the son of Joseph, all these kind of things. Yeah.

[B]

Will you talk for a second, Pastor Joby, about him being a just or a righteous man? Because the same thing is said about Zechariah and Elizabeth. So what does that mean? Because we talk a lot about what it means to be righteous before God. Like, what is the New Testament saying about those people?

[D]

It's the similar kind of word as to, like, when Paul says he was blameless, it doesn't say he was perfect. Perfect would mean not break the law. Blameless would mean that he was an adherent to the law of God. Which means even when I did break the law, then I participated in the sacrificial system that you set up so that I would be justified in the sight of God because blood was shed for the forgiveness of sin.

[B]

Yeah, that's.

[D]

That's different.

[B]

It's like saying faithful or devoted. Right.

[D]

Like, correct. It's like by his own actions, he was actually putting his faith in his. Whatever you want to call it, stepson, even before he knew it, by participating in things like the day of atonement and the burnt sacrifice and all of these things. What he's saying is, God, I need for you to do for me what I can't do for me. I can't blot out my own sins. So I am believing in this sacrificial system by faith, that this is how sin is covering. And I'm also believing, based on what your word says is there will come a day when the lamb will come for the forgiveness of all sin.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

And in that way, he had a right standing before God not because of his right activity, but because of his faithfulness to the system of salvation that God had established.

[B]

And Pastor Britt, you talked in. In the message about, like, the difficulty of their requests, you know, and how that's a. You could say that that's a pattern of steps of face, of faith. Faith wins over fear. And so it's not just these adjustments. Good man. He's shrewd. He's. He's providing for his family. He walks in faith because he's able to do. This is a very hard thing he's asked to do.

[C]

It's very hard. An angel shows up to him in a dream and speaks to him. Now.

My general study of the scriptures, angels. Pretty scary, man.

[D]

Yeah, no doubt.

[C]

They big, they tall, they shiny, they got swords, especially this, these angels. And so there's a lot going on there. Speaks to him in a dream, and he does what God commands him to do. And so there's a. There's a massive step of faith in there that Joseph just has to do the hard thing. And I think once he flips the switch, or once the switch is flipped is probably a better way to say it, he goes all in on it. I mean, he just accepts the responsibility, steps into it, and come hell or high water, it's now been trusted to him, and he's going for it, and he does, and so good on him. Bottom line is, for all of us, or for a lot of us, fear is knocking. Either knocking at the door or fear. Fear is renting a room.

And we all just have to right size where and how that is. You know, I don't think fear is when it's knocking at the door. We decide if we're going to open it or not. But when you have big decisions to make, when you have things that feel like big steps of faith. And I'm not just talking about, like, American, what, are you going to refinance your mortgage? Like, should you pray about that? Yeah, of course. But I'm talking about. Clearly God is asking you to do something that, like, feels radical to you. It's a radical. Not go to med school, tell my dad, go on the mission trip this Christmas season goes, and do whatever you can do to reconcile that relationship. Don't go another Christmas with that relationship broken. Fear's knocking at the door.

[D]

I can't.

[C]

God's asking you to take a radical step of generosity.

[B]

I don't know.

[C]

But what about. But what about fear's knocking at the door, you know, and so the question is, do you let him come in and start renting a room? Can I.

[D]

Can you think of one thing in the Bible where God called somebody to something that was fun and comfortable and easier? Because think about how often.

We conflate our desires with. God told me, and God called me for sure. I can't think of one. Okay, so follow me. Make you fishers of men. You're gonna die and upside down on a cross.

Paul, I'm gonna take away your fame and fortune, Saul of Tarsus, and you're gonna. You're gonna get beheaded in a jail in Rome. I mean, honestly, think of one thing. I can't think of one where he didn't call into hard for sure. And we live in a world that pursues comfort at the expense of everything else.

You know, Totally.

[B]

And I almost. I almost sent you a text this week, Pastor Joby, but one of the things that I have learned a lot about from you is how faith takes action. You know, I'm a, you know, reflective thinking type person, and I'm always challenged in a really good way, like to take a step of action with faith. And when. When that line and Joseph went and did what the Lord said, just do us just do a study of all these leaders in the Bible. I'm reading through, through Joshua right now. And it says, God gives these instructions about this city or this tactic or whatever, and Joshua did everything according to what the Lord had said. They would have success. And as soon as they didn't do that, guess what?

[D]

Well, you know, where the problems came is, I mean, you know what eventually turned into the Philistines? It was just that one couple little areas where Joshua decided, I mean, come on, 11 out of 12 tribes is pretty good. We wiped out most of these pagan nations, but I mean, who cares about that? Just one little spot up there. Let's just leave them alone. And then he began to make excuses because he did mostly right. He just didn't do what God told him to do. Yeah. You know, it's fascinating a few generations later, bro, you're exiled in those places because that, man, you ignore that little lizard, it turns into a dragon one day, it tries to kill you.

[C]

Yeah, I'm doing some hops here. Big ones do it. But Joshua, 6, 7, son of Aiken. Do you know what the tribe was called that they were supposed to defeat? The little tribe that they were supposed to defeat, they didn't a.

Get you some of that.

[D]

Boom.

[C]

I was like, is it.

[B]

Do you say AI? Do you say I?

[D]

I AI.

[B]

AI Star Small weird dude. Tell you what's also weird about that. This is Rabbit Trail, the one little tribe that tricks them, that puts on all the worn out stuff and gets the stale bread and stuff and they come and they make a covenant with them and then they find out right afterwards that they lied. But they still kept. They're like, man, why did you make us promise? Now we have to keep our promise. Even though they didn't seek God. I mean talking about the adherence to their words and their like just the honor just it's like when is it, was it Isaac or when he gives the blessing and he can't take it back?

[D]

Like yeah, Isaac blesses Jacob instead of Esau.

[B]

Yeah. So this is kind of like, so I mean obviously Joseph's main contribution is as a dad and a husband. Okay. And so what personally comes to mind? You both will have something, I'm sure. But what personally comes to mind of a just action or a, or a courageous action that you saw your own dad take, your own earthly dad take that impacted you in a big way.

[D]

My dad, even though he just got saved.

He'S that kind of old school. All you've got is your word and so you're honest. If you're going to do things, you do it right. There's no place for half way doing this. That how he would say it.

And.

It, it just, he just instilled that in us. Also Coach Lee, there's two, two events that I can think know. He's like my spiritual dad, right? Two events. I think about one time I was running around doing errands with Coach Lee and we went to Walmart and he bought something maybe with a twenty dollar bill and they Give him back change. And we go out of the parking lot and we get in the truck and he's just like transferring the change to his wallet or whatever. And there was an extra five dollar bill in that. And I would be like, God has blessed me. And we get out of the truck, go all the way back into Walmart and he's like, this isn't mine, this is yours. And that's just he, he didn't have a category that he would hold on to that. Another thing, my dad was the Lance man in Dylan. And a part of his job was to like put crackers in the machines like at the high school and stuff, you know, and my dad had gotten all the change out of the machine and put it on top and you know, it was probably, I don't know, $40 in chain quarters and stuff where people are getting snacks. And then my dad, being in a hurry, just leaves the box of money up there and he drives away and he's like, oh no, I left that money. And so he hustles back and it's gone. Somebody got it. Coach Lee finds out it's the starting running back for the football team that took the money. And my dad is like, it's not his fault, it's my fault, I left it. And Coach Lee kicks the kid off the team because you don't steal and that was not your money. At great expense to himself. He's the head football coach at Dylan High. And we live in a world that will make an excuse for any five star because you're really serving you. Coach Lee did not do those kinds of things. Now he loved him for, you know, but that, I mean those moments, those stories around my house, you just do what's right no matter the cost, no matter the consequences, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

That's what my dad taught me.

[B]

That's good.

[D]

You just do what's right.

[C]

Yeah, my brain immediately. I've talked a lot about my dad.

[B]

I love him.

[C]

Not perfect, great godly man. Look forward to seeing him again one day.

My memory's weird, man. I don't remember much before 12. Very little. I have just like sparse memories and then it just is like a deep black hole. That's just me being honest. And I don't really start picking up until I'm like 16 or 17 again. But what I do remember is that my dad suffered well. He suffered well. His high school sweetheart, my mom was very sick. She got very sick. She died very terribly in our house. And he was a very broken man. And he just sat Next to her bed, holding her hand, and with one hand and the Bible in the other, begging God for months and months and months and months and months, did everything he could within his means. We didn't have any money. We didn't have any money. And he's flying her down to Mexico for, like, alternate treatments and things that aren't approved by our fda, doing anything he can. When our medicine, our medicinal system gave up on her, he didn't. He goes down. He's. They're down in this. This. This treatment center down in Mexico for like a month. And my dad starts a Bible, that study down there, and it's leading people to Jesus in the. I remember I talked to him, like, two weeks on the phone, and I'm like, how's it going? And the first thing he says is, I got to lead. And he said their name, Harold and the other lady. I got to lead him to Jesus this morning. So he's. I mean, his wife's dying right in front of me. He's just down there doing Bible studies, you know what I mean? And so, yeah, that's. That. That stands out in my memory. I remember walking by his office, and he'd be laid face down on the floor, just begging God.

So he was just consistent. He was a very consistent, faithful man. But my dad was not a loud man. He was a very smart man. He was a great preacher, good leader.

Both faithful to God. But he wasn't loud, and he wasn't trying to be out front. He wasn't any of those things. You know, he just stayed at it, stayed consistent, suffered. Well, his suffering broke him. His suffering broke him for sure. He never really recovered after that. But in my mind, he's just, you know, from a. From a godliness perspective, man to be half the man he was, I take it.

[D]

I think my dad's superpower was.

One, is he showed up, and two, he took responsibility.

So even as, like, a teenager, after I got saved and I'm reading all these verses in the Bible about how God is a heavenly father.

We never went to church. He never prayed over me. We do any of that stuff. It made all the sense in the world, because think about it. God shows up. That's what Emmanuel is, and he takes responsibility. He went to the cross, and it was not his fault. So it made all the sense in the world that because of the example of my dad, of what a heavenly father was, even to the point where.

Yeah, he and my mom, you know, they went through a nasty divorce and they couldn't get along. But he just, he just did what he had to do to take care of me and Russ. And he just showed up. Like, when we opened the church in 2012, I'm 38 years old. He's sitting on the front row. I swear, if I played in a travel softball league today, I think he'd come to the games. Like, it's, that's the kind of dad he is. And that's the thing, man. I, I, I learned it to show up. Like, I, I try to, I just show up for my kids, you know, and I have a very different relationship. I mean, I, you know, we pray over each other in my house, and we read the Bible and we study the Bible. My wife, devotion. So it's a very different environment than I grew up in. But there's a bunch of dads that they take their kids to church, but they ain't showing up in their lives. They're not taking responsibility. They're not teaching them. We do what's right.

[B]

You can pretend to care, but you can't pretend to be there.

[D]

Oh, look at you.

[C]

I think it's, it's an, it's an interesting point and an interesting question. You know, in the sermon, we spend a little bit of time looking at Joseph's genealogy.

[D]

Uhhuh.

[C]

And the good news of Jesus is that he redeems broken things. And the entire landed invasion, this rescue mission, was about redeeming broken things. And I know for sure there's people in our campuses that listen online that look at the amount of carnage and brokenness that they've experienced in their life. They can go back 10, 12, 15 generations and see a lot of what Joseph can see. Adulterers and abusers and liars and cheaters and stealers and prostitutes and I mean, it's just like the history is just wild. And yeah, murderers, many of them. Witchcraft. They're practicing witchcraft. I mean, what are you inviting into your generational system, Manasseh? Doing some witchcraft? You know what I mean? And God and you just land on this guy. Joseph, who wasn't perfect by any means, still needs a savior, but God trusts him with this, with this thing. And, and that God redeems. God redeems broken things. And so we can be confident in God's plan that was demonstrated for us in and through Jesus Christ, that Jesus's genealogy and his blood that redeems all bloodlines by faith and grace is stronger than anything that has a hold over me in my past.

[D]

Amen.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

You know what I mean?

[B]

One of the Things that's interesting about doing kind of a character study is that you're looking for trick. Like you'd be looking for traits to kind of like, so what can I. What can I model my life after? You know? Now, obviously we don't want to just do that because there's a lot of gospel implications like you pointed out. But as we get ready to sort of wrap up here, is there anything, anything else you'd say about, like you're a man or a dad or a husband or just anybody listening to this, what are you supposed to walk away with learning?

[D]

Well, let me. Before you answer that, and I want you to answer that, Pastor Britt, the best way to think about it is you're not just copying and pasting character traits, but what you got to think of is parallel tracks. So one of the tracks is the power of the gospel to change your life. And when you believe in Jesus, then the spirit of God fills you up to be more like Jesus. Okay, well then how does this character that we're looking at, what are some of his characteristics that are like Jesus that you can't do on your own? This is not copy and paste. These are not good morals. But filled with the spirit, here are some things you should aim at. And then you've got the parallel tracks of the grace of Jesus to be saved and then the truth of the word to walk in the way. So I think that's a good way to think about this.

[C]

The way I'd answer it is the kind of how I close it down is that Jesus to put God first is to say Jesus is at the center. And that's what Joseph did. So if you were to say, what. What did Joseph do that I could learn from? He put Jesus at the middle of all of it. Like their entire life changed immediately and pivoted completely around this firstborn son, Jesus, and they put him at the center of everything. They didn't. Why did they take off to Egypt? Why did they do that? Why did they. All these things is all about Jesus.

[B]

It's like you said, once he was in, he was all in.

[C]

He was all in.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And so by saying yes to Jesus, you have to say no to three things. You have to say no to the world. The. The temptations of this world, to your point earlier about how we can just justify worldly things and call it God's will.

[D]

Yep.

[C]

It's just more for me, more of me. And we. And we say it's God wants it. You know what I mean? That's A super razor thin line. I'm not saying God doesn't want to bless you. I'm just saying don't bless yourself and then give God the credit. That's a different thing.

[D]

Or chase the blessing.

[C]

That's right, don't chase the blessing.

[D]

Oh, so God play well with idols, the devil, that's it.

[C]

To follow Jesus is to say that he is trustworthy. And what's the antithesis of that?

You're either trusting the lie or you're trusting the truth.

[B]

Amen.

[C]

And so you have to say no to the devil and then say no to the flesh. Joseph had to say no to his flesh. He had to abstain from having sex with his wife. You know, he, he had to. His reputation was on. The risk was on, the was risked. His location was risked. Everything that he thought was going to be his life changed in a minute, in a dream, according to God's sovereign and redemptive plan. And so just to say no to the flesh is to say Jesus is Lord. What I love about Joseph is that it says that. And he went and did what the Lord commanded him to do. And if Jesus is at the center, ultimately I'm saying you're the Lord. Regardless of how I feel about it, regardless of the result for me, regardless of whatever the cost, Jesus, you're the Lord. And I'm going to do what you say and because I want to. And this is an important thing. It's not some obligatory dutiful. There's no question in my mind that in glory Joseph is now saying, I have all the proof that Jesus is better than all those things, that this was the better path.

[D]

Yeah, you think about John 10, which we spent over two years on, right? My sheep hear my voice.

The voice of the stranger. They will not follow. The thief comes only to steal, kill and destroy. I've come that you may have life and have it abundantly.

We think that abundant life is a reward for obedience. But Jesus is saying, abundant life is obedience.

[C]

Amen.

[D]

Because what you get is not his blessing. You get him, that's it. You get him. And apart from him, you can do nothing. So.

You know, First Corinthians 13. Man, if I could prophesy and do miracles. But I don't have love. And Jesus is love, right? This is love. Not that we love God, but God loved us and sent his Son as the propitiation for our sins. So he is. He is love. You don't have him, you have nothing. You are nothing. That's that. That is it. That the abundant Life is obedience in him because you get him.

And that's what Joseph does.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

And we are blessed by it.

[C]

Amen.

[B]

You just mentioned the thing about him. He says he knew her not until she had given birth to a son. The angel didn't specifically say, here's how you should live that the rest of this time. You know, I wonder. I wonder how he. He arrived at that conclusion. You know, he just chose it.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. I don't.

[C]

I can't begin to speculate.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, but good on it.

[D]

Well, it's kind of. It's kind of back to. Just because the Bible allows it does not mean that's what God has for you, you know?

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

It sort of reminds me of.

[C]

I just don't think he. He wanted to have anything to do. I didn't. I just don't think he wanted to interfere at all with either the betrothal process.

[D]

Uhhuh.

[C]

I. I think he was honorable in that way. He had made a commitment, and he didn't want to interfere with the betrothal process. More importantly, he didn't want to interfere with anything God was doing. This is not my business to put myself in the middle of. Interrupt. Trying to interrupt what God's doing here. I want to be about God's business.

[B]

We need more honorable men.

[C]

He's honorable man.

[D]

There it is.

[B]

That's great.

[C]

What Foxworthy say at the men's conference. He said, grown man, just do what needs doing.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Sometimes what needs doing is you got to tell yourself no in order to say yes to the better thing.

[D]

Dude, Foxworthy is. He is like the. The senior sage. I've been with him several times now, especially in a room full of hunters and a bunch of, you know, people goofing off. And he's the funniest guy. So he has the ability to make everybody laugh more than anybody else can. And yet he steps into the wise sage role. You know, it's a real. Honestly, it's a super. He's a. It's a real act of humility because he's not saying, look at me. Sometimes he'll say the hard thing about. Let me help you see this a little clearer. What a dude, man. Amen.

[C]

Well, I appreciate you boys being honorable men, godly fathers, good husbands and pastor. Thanks for trusting me with this text.

[D]

It's easy to trust the trustworthy.

[B]

You want to pray?

[C]

I do. Lord, we love you. Well, we just pray as we are in the Christmas season that our hearts would be just filled with gratitude and thanksgiving and that our. That we would be surprised again, or maybe for the first time by the good news of the message of Jesus, by the promise, the hope, the gift, the future, the plan. Jesus, we know that you told us you have gone to prepare a place for us. And so we wait. We wait and we trust you. We wait saying we need you and we love you and we thank you for giving us all you got and giving us all of yourself. I pray for our families. I pray for the families of those who are listening God. I just pray that you'd bless them with your presence. And Lord, that this Christmas season would be one where our hearts are full and our homes are filled with peace. And Lord, we just pray that many, many would come to salvation through this series, the Real Men of Christmas. That they would hear and see and believe the good news of the gospel in Jesus name.

[D]

Thank you for listening to the podcast the End. You nailed it.

[A]

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