← Deepen with Pastor Joby Martin
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- [00:01]
A
Welcome to Deepen with Pastor Joby Martin. The Church of 1122 is a movement for all people to discover and deepen a relationship with Jesus Christ. And we're praying this message helps you deepen your relationship with him. Now let's dive in.
- [00:18]
B
Binky, I got a funny story to start. Yeah, a funny story. So guy comes up to me with this beautiful family after church, and he's like, we're from Dillon, South Carolina. I was like, it sounds like it, right? So I've heard the accent before. And so, like, they have a motocross ministry.
- [00:31]
C
Y.
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B
And so what I did not know is that motocross is, like a Sunday thing. Like, people do motocross on Sundays, but you're supposed to be spending the time with the Lord. So this family decides, you know, we're going to start doing stuff. And so the reason why I got this hat that says Jesus family Moto right there is because this family's like, we know you like black shirts. We brought you a shirt shirt from our ministry. I'm like, oh, that's great. So I tuck it under my sleeve, and we take a picture and all that. And so I run into your office, and I'm like, well, this. I've already sweat through two shirts today because this is our fifth podcast. I'll just throw this shirt on and I undo it. It is a large. A youth large. And it's, like, comically small. And I'm like, oh, no. I told the people I would wear this on the podcast.
- [01:11]
D
You should.
- [01:12]
B
I took off.
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C
Run.
- [01:13]
B
Okay. Be like, up, up here or something like that. We don't want to scare the children.
- [01:16]
D
When in Rome.
- [01:17]
B
Well, I could take off running. Luckily, they're still hanging out next to you. And I come over there, and the wife's like, oh, good, I gotta have another shirt in my purse. Pulls that out. Youth large, baby. And I was like, all right. It's just not meant to be. But I was just like, man, I want to, like, give them a shout out. I noticed the guy was wearing this hat. I just go, give me your hat. And he's just like, oh, okay. I'm like, yeah, I'll wear it on. I wear it on the podcast. I'm not giving it back, though. He's like, yeah, yeah. I just started wearing it today. So shout out to those guys from Dylan South.
- [01:40]
D
Yeah, they're awesome.
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B
Check them out.
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E
We said just before we started that there's just. There's. There was too many good things that we. We would have to go about Three and a half hours.
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B
Yeah.
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E
To cover it all. But thank you, Pastor Phil. That was incredible. Tell me, Pastor, how did you guys meet? Where'd you find this guy?
- [01:58]
D
I got asked to speak at a men's event at his church in. In Kansas City, Missouri. Abundant Life. And I went. I didn't know him at all. And then we met for lunch or breakfast or something. And honestly, they were stuck. They were just at a place of kind of plateau. And. And. And I don't know. I don't always just volunteer my opinions upon people. I just felt one of those spirit guided, like, can I tell you what I think? And just said, this is what I think you should do. And we. And then the other thing is, dude, Phil didn't know anybody. He didn't have any friends. I mean, he had local friends. He didn't have any pastor friends. You know, like, pretty much everybody I bring on here are my friends that I've got all over the country that run, you know, God has their hand on. I'm like, dude, you got to get around some of my guys. And so Larry Osborne and I have a cohort of pastors that. That run some. Some churches that God's doing big things in. And I just invited him around and started inviting all my buddies, and then we hunted together a bunch. And that's it.
- [03:02]
C
Yeah. Yeah, I. I literally went to be a cop. Woke up a pastor in March of 2000. So I really didn't know anybody. Yeah, you know, I'd never been to seminary, had no network historically. So I just put my hand on the plow and started working. So my best friends today, honestly, in ministry, this man right here introduced me to. I'm so grateful. And it was 2019. He did a men's event for us, and I was kind of lamenting because we hit a lid, and I don't. I don't deal good with that. I mean, I just, you know. Yeah, you go through seasons in ministry. You stay at something long enough, 25 years, you got to revitalize something. You revitalize. We were kind of in that moment. I remember Joby says something. Well, he says, well, don't panic till you launch a campus. Right? And we did. Launched our first campus. Launched a campus every year for the last five years. And everything's been up and to the right. And Joby, 11:22, we've learned so much. When I say leaders are lifetime leaders, guys, we're learning so much from 1122. I'm so grateful, Joby. Thank you.
- [04:08]
D
Well, I need to learn more Bible verses. Is that from your independent fundamentalist background?
- [04:14]
C
Probably all those sword drills when I was little.
- [04:17]
E
Oh yeah, I've done a sword drill. There's one of the favorite saturated messages over the years is a guy named Ray Cortes. We talk about it a lot and his message is, you only believe half the gospel and there's a whole thing with it. But when you started talking about unbelieving believers and you said enough faith to get out of Egypt but not enough faith to get in the promised land, I was like, boy, you better start preaching. So what, what's that look like? I mean, and that's kind. Doesn't that blow your mind a little bit? I mean, like, what's that look like to live halfway there?
- [04:53]
D
It's like most southerners, quite honestly, like they believe Jesus for heaven, but not life. They think an eternal life happens when you die, but he doesn't rule and reign in your life right this second. I mean, that picture of them, they're freed slaves, but not walking in the promised land. I mean, I never really thought about that as just a picture of the life not surrendered, that the life committed but not consecrated. I mean, dude.
- [05:24]
C
Yeah, I, I think that is probably a picture of most Christians sitting in churches across America today than they do Joby. They think, well, you know, I, I accept Jesus. Now I get to go to heaven. And you know, I'm just waiting to go to heaven. Right, right. Might be 40 years till I die, but now I know Jesus, I get to go to heaven. And they miss everything in the middle, everything that could be because they, they literally. And I think it's, it's a true though oxymore, unbelieving believer. You believe Jesus can get you into heaven. You don't think he can set you free from that addiction? You don't think he can help you walk away from that temptation. You know, you, you, you, you live in the wilderness of mediocrity, if not complete captivity. That's the irony. These guys had been liberated, but they live for like they were still slaves.
- [06:15]
E
Yeah, you said, you said they, they tried to preserve their life and lost it.
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C
They did.
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E
You know, it sounds like something Jesus said.
- [06:23]
C
Yes.
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E
Now it kind of bra. Brings me, it brings up a theological question to me, like, is there such thing as the fire? Is there such thing as the fire insurance Christian? Like, because doesn't a Christian have to bear fruit and grow?
- [06:40]
D
Yeah, I mean a lot of that's just timing. I mean, sanctification is a progressive time taking thing, you know, and it's not how you start, how you end. And. And you know, the thing with the fruit, there's also seasons of fruitfulness, too.
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E
That's right.
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D
But I think there's a lot of people that are living dormant lives and they need to lean in for the. For them to bear fruit. That makes sense.
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C
Yeah, Agreed, Kyle.
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E
That's maybe another way to say what you do, which is try to help the unbelieving believer become more of a believing believer.
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B
Well, that's where I like. One of my least favorite words in the English lexicon is nuance. Oh, this is a nuanced thing. There's a lot of gray area here. It's like. Well, I feel like there's a lot of black and white. There's a lot of yes, no, and there's a lot of binary. And you have a lot of people that love the squishy middle. And the thing is, is the squishy middle is where you go to die. Like, that's not a place of action. That's not a place of movement. And gosh, you talked about it, because commitment, that's what we need. We need commitment out of our soldiers. We need commitment out of our employees. We need commitment, commitment, commitment. And then when you're like, the problem with the modern church is there, it's full of committed Christians. I was like, I kept thinking that you were misspeaking tonight. But it's just that I'm stupid and slow. And I was like, all, okay, I get what he's saying.
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C
I hope you got it eventually.
- [07:57]
B
No, I did get it eventually. I got there eventually. You know, public school. So it's one of those things that whenever you were talking about consecration, it's just like, oh, that is a completely different thing. And so it's kind of a derivative when I talk about pre decision. And so people that struggle to exercise, it's because they, they decide the next morning when their alarm goes off whether or not they're going to do it, right? And so they're warming their bed, they're chilling out. They're. They. They're under. Recovered. You know, they're. They think they need to take care of themselves this day, and so they just hit the snooze button, right? But the decision to work out tomorrow isn't made tomorrow. It's made like 10 years ago, right? This is just what I do. And so you've. You're killing parts of yourself that will kill you. Right? And so it's easy to look at it from a exercise perspective or maybe A mental development perspective. But for Christians, you're right. It's what I talk about all the time. Country music theology. Right. So I grew up in Oklahoma. You know, my parents went to church when they were kids. I was baptized as a kid. When my parents vote, they vote Republican. We listen to 90s country music. God's pro all those things. So you get to go to heaven. And it's just like that's. I mean, that's just not in here though.
- [09:05]
C
Right. You think about the difference between commitment and consecration. Think about all the things that people are committed to, plus Jesus. The problem is they're committed to a lot of things. And Jesus doesn't want to be just another commitment and an already over committed life.
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B
Yeah.
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C
And that's why there's so much consistent inconsistency in people's Christianity, because it's a commitment. It comes and goes, it ebbs and flows. We're consecration. You think about. I heard an interview years ago with one of the men of Normandy. That's how long ago it was. And the question they asked him, how. How is it that some men, when they go into combat, they fight with such tenacity, ferocity, like just fearless. And other men in combat, they freeze up. And his. What he said was this. You literally die ahead of time. You resign your life ahead of time. You just come to terms with the fact that you're dead already.
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B
Yeah.
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C
So once you've died, you got nothing left to hang on to. Right. And that's the. I think that that is how the Christian life is meant to be lived. Once you've given it all away, you've got nothing left to lose.
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B
Yeah. You said dead men. What'd you say? He said dead men aren't scared of anything.
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C
Dead men aren't scared of anything because you're already dead. Right.
- [10:20]
B
Right. I've talked to a lot of spec ops guys that they were like, they knew they were going to die. They're going out every night on capture kill missions. Right. Way behind enemy lines. Like it's just, it might be their day where they go across an ied, where they breach the wrong door and there's a charge on the other side or, you know, they, there's a bullet with their name on it. And it's just like. That's when you talk about putting your yes on the table. These men put their yes on their table to defend this country and they just don't know what the question is yet. Right. And so they just don't know what's going to be required of them today. But gosh, if we approached our Christian walk in that way, if we approached ourselves as dead people, right? Like, I mean, it would just change everything. I feel like.
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E
Yeah, you said, I love to ask more about this. You said the crucifixion happened one time in history, but to make it happen daily, it's how you live that out. Talk a little bit about those differences.
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C
So we all have a positional reality and a practical reality. Positionally in Christ, we have victory already, practically. It doesn't feel like it sometimes. So the positional reality is we were crucified in Christ, we were crucified with him. And now Paul says, I die daily. So as you do it daily over and over again, it's not a one and done positionally, you're dead already practically. You have to do it daily. That's how your practical reality, your positional reality becomes one and the same experientially. Now you're living the resurrected life, right? You're living in the power of the resurrection on a daily basis because you have chosen to die again. It's the same thing. Getting out of bed at five in the morning to go torture yourself and work out. You have to die to self in that moment. You have to decide, I'm living for something greater than the moment I'm in right now, that there's something worth it on the other side.
- [12:14]
D
Yeah, I'm just think when Martin Luther nailed the 95 thesis on the wall of Edinburgh and the first one, the life of the Christian is out of daily repentance is another way of saying every single day of your life, you've got to turn from flesh, turn from the world, turn from the devil, turn towards Christ. That's what repentance is. The way Jesus would say, take up your cross, die to yourself. Follow me. I mean, I think he was saying the same thing exactly, that repentance was not a. It had been turned in this, like religious activity with loopholes that you could buy your way in and out of.
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B
Right.
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D
You could buy indulgences, you could stack up and then go on spring break and be like, oh, these don't count because I prepaid for these sins. And he's like, time out. You guys are just making up stuff now that the life of the Christian is out of daily repentance.
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C
Yeah. And we're talking about now justification, the first stage of salvation, really, we're talking about sanctification. Right, right, right, yeah, justification. Jesus died to deliver you from sin's penalty, sanctification you die to be delivered from sin's power. That's where that daily repentance comes in. You don't repent of your sin one time. Now you get to go to heaven. It's not. That's how a lot of people approach their salvation. This is a one and done. Now I just wait to die and go to heaven. This is something you do over and over again.
- [13:33]
B
Yeah. And when you were talking about, you can't manage your flesh has to be crucified, I was just like, whoa, yo. Like. Because that was one of those things to where it's just, we think, you know, when you say, like, the worst thing, what's. What did cops say? Where it's like the guy says, I got this.
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D
Yeah. The worst a man can say is, I got this.
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B
Yeah. And so it's like you've got that flesh that you think that you can keep. Keep under wraps. Right. Chandler said this at the Acts 29 conference last year where he was talking about the person that has a pet lion.
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C
Yeah.
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B
And then one day the lion remembers I'm an apex predator. Right. That's your sin.
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C
Yes.
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B
And the problem with that lion is you think it's a pet, so you keep feeding it.
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C
Yes.
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B
Right. And then you don't realize that one of this days it's going to just completely consume you. It just hasn't done it yet. And so it's just, you know, gosh, I mean, it's because people think about, okay, I need to stop cussing so much and I need to stop, you know, checking out the waitress as much as I do. And it's. It's all just about like, oh, I'm just going to manage this.
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C
I'm going to manage the power of self. Like, I, I can. I can white knuckle this self determination, I mean, it really was my life in the early days, man. I was determined to do better, try harder. And there's no amount of self determination. It's like the flesh fighting the flesh.
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D
And you can succeed in the world.
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C
Your will will cave in.
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B
Yeah.
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D
Yeah. But in this world where you can climb the corporate ladder, you can be the captain of the team. I mean, for a season, you can beat your body and like, hunker down and white knuckle some things. And the problem is, it's so counterintuitive to the Christian life, you know, because everything else, every sport you've ever played is you want to get better, try harder.
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C
Yeah.
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D
And this thing is, you want to get better, die to yourself.
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C
Yeah.
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D
What I loved about. Because, you know, I can't help it when I. I can't just listen to preaching. I gotta listen at it. You know what I mean?
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C
I'm sure. I understand.
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D
And you're killing it. All the. I want. You wrote it all down. I. All the self talk. I want to. I want to, like, go over a couple of those. Like, fear dies when self dies. Pride dies when self dies. You know, those things. All right. But the. Then what I thought was brilliant. And this is what most preachers don't do. Okay. It's one thing to talk about that. And theologically or even philosophically, people like, okay, I see what you're doing. That makes sense. But what the heck does that have to do with my life? Like, how do I do that? And then you went, example 101, my marriage, year 14. Let me sh. Now let me give you a physical, practical, tangible, and also vulnerable example.
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B
Yeah, Joby, I. I was talking to Phil right before we. We walked back here. And, like, I'm not super poetic in my language, and I don't really have a pentecostal background, so I don't think there's one or two demons behind every bush. It's just kind of one of those things. But the. The room is completely silent. And then you stopped. Then you started talking about marriage, and it got quieter. I don't know how that's possible, but.
- [16:36]
C
It was like, I sense the same thing.
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B
Like, I could hear buzzing in the. Of the oxygen in the room.
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C
The same thing from up there.
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B
Yeah.
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C
And I. I think what happened is, man, it was hitting close to home. Now, you know, it's one thing to get real theological.
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B
Yeah.
- [16:52]
C
And theoretical. Okay. About dying to self. But all of a sudden, man, I really sense, man, there's a lot of marriages that are going through the same thing we did. We. We go through the same stuff because we're all made of the same stuff. Well, a lot of people don't realize, you know, your pastors are just made of the same stuff you are. And here I am at this time. I'm a pastor by now, and our marriage was dying a death by a thousand cuts. And the devil doesn't care if he takes you out by a hatchet in a day. A single blow. More marriages die slowly over time. Death by a thousand cuts. That's what I've been doing in my marriage, man. There's so much more, too, the backstory to all of that, because it was after that night that I really became very introspective. I Never went and saw a LPC counselor, but I went and saw the wonderful counselor, and I started to connect some dots that I'd never connected before. Like, why, you know, I, I, you know, I, I'm so confident in all these areas of life when it comes to my wife. I felt weak. And it wasn't, it wasn't Christa, I promise you. It was something in me, right? And, and you. I started connecting some dots I hadn't thought about, I had not thought about what happened on the back of that bus for many years yet. What happened on the back of that bus sent me down in my adolescence. I put in motion, man. I started pursuing girls before I had hair on my legs, literally, right? And all the things that would come with that. One relationship after another. These tiny bopta relationships, you know, that we think are just part of growing up, they deeply embed something on our soul we take into marriage. I tell, you know, if people should get the book and read the first part of the Song of Solomon devotion that I did. I tell people, listen, disobedience while dating is what leads to dysfunction in your marriage. I lived it. I know what I'm talking about. And so a lot of that was what was going on for 14 years that I didn't understand.
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B
Well, the thing that was so impactful when you were talking about that, Phil, is you said, I got the wife that I wanted when God got the man that he wanted. And I was just like, oh, my gosh, can you stop punching everyone in the face? Give me a chance to breathe here. Because, like, there, there's so many men that were quiet lamenters, right? So we'll, we'll resent our wives in our heads, or we'll resent one of our co workers in our heads, or we want to resent these people. And it just grows and grows and grows inside of us. But we also got some of that Western American machismo thing. I can do my own thing. I can pull myself up by my bootstraps and. And then in your marriage, like, again, I thought you had, you misspoke. But it's like your, your marriage only dies when two people choose to live. And the, the context of that, guys, if you haven't heard the message yet, go back and listen to it. But it's literally like you have to die to self together in order to live as a.
- [19:48]
C
To give life to your marriage, to give life to each other. Two people have to die to self. And the moment you choose to live now you're living for Self. And now you're taking life from your spouse instead of giving life to your spouse. And that's what I had done over and over again.
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D
That's Ephesians 5:21. Submit to one another, reverence for Christ.
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C
Yes.
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E
And how many Christian marriages are. Are there? And the man's thinking, well, I'm not out. I'm not cheating. I'm not looking at porn. I'm not out partying. I'm not doing. And. And yet still giving the same.
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C
I would have said all along, I'm an Ephesians 5:25 kind of husband. I'm a great husband. I'm a godly husband. I would die for my wife. I'd take a bullet for my wife. Well, that's easy. Yeah.
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B
You just don't die for.
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C
Yeah, taking a bullet for your wife. Who wouldn't do that? But. But dying for your life means living.
- [20:34]
D
For her every day.
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C
Every day instead of living for Sure.
- [20:38]
B
I mean, you see people online. It's kind of like a meme now, but it's like, oh, you would die for your family? Would you work out for your family? Would you read the Bible for your family? Would you get rid of that addiction for your family? Oh, you're not willing to do that. Okay. You're just full of it, right? Because it's very poetic and it's very war movie to be like, I would sacrifice myself. Like, you know, the boy goes down so the girl can go free. All that. This isn't a Tim McGraw song, okay? It's like, you have to live this out every single day.
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C
Yeah. Well, will you do the dishes for your wife?
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B
Yeah.
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C
Will you go to the mall with your wife? Will you give up a day on playing golf? Better stop right there, guys. Okay?
- [21:14]
B
It could. It could get worse from there, but for you, like, the. The practicality of living that out, I want to even tease that out even further. Because, you know, it's one thing to kind of stay in the world of the philosophical, and I think all of us can kind of enjoy that, and you can bandy ideas about or something like that. But for the men and women listening to this and my. My audience. Your audience is split, joby, but mine's 95% male, 5% gangster female. Like, how do you practically live that out? If someone's like, okay, I'm done managing sin. Okay, I'm done being a committed Christian. It's time to conson, consecrate, and there. But then you got highly conscientious people. They need some boxes to check. And so it's like there are some boxes that need to be checked. So how would you advise that somebody, if you were discipling them, this is what you could, what you should do. Here are some next steps.
- [21:57]
C
Most people like in the heat of temptation, you have a besetting sin. You want to be free so bad you white knuckle it, you're going to grit your teeth. Self determination. And if you're really a disciplined person, that works for a while, but eventually the will will always cave in. So for me, this was like a major epiphany many, many years ago. Most of us try to suppress our sin. Like I mentioned the dandelion. You cannot suppress your sin. It's not a life of suppression. It's a life of submission. In the heat of temptation, what is to make your body a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable. You literally present your body to Jesus. You cannot present your body to sin while you're presenting it to him. In that moment of temptation, you'll either submit to sin or you will submit to him. But you can't submit to both at the same time. So the question is, to what will you submit in that moment? And that for me, man, in that moment, like, you choose for what you will either die to sin and live for him. And that's where the power of the resurrection takes place. You have the power to walk away where before you would have stayed.
- [23:10]
D
Yeah, the puritans called it mortification and vivification. That you got to kill sin or it'll be killing you. This is Hebrews 12. This is, you gotta put to death sin. Cast off anything that entangles and fix your eyes on Jesus, the author and perfect of our faith. So simultaneously, there's some stuff in your life. If you want to live the abundant life, you better go put a bullet in its head. Like there's pornography. You can't play with it, man. No, you gotta kill it now. Again, you can't just like white knuckle it forever or it'll get you. And so then the way after you say, these are some things I am cutting out, one of the quickest ways to do it is confess it out loud to other people. Look at somebody and go, bro, here's my problem. I drink too much. Let's say this out loud. Shine light on whatever the thing is, it'll never be enough. Then the way, the best way to keep dandelions from growing in your yard is feed the grass. Feed the grass. You got to uproot them. But if you only Uproot them, they'll come back. So you got to feed the grass. Healthy grass will choke out the weeds.
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C
Yeah.
- [24:12]
D
So then that Jesus says, so John 15, so abide in me, and I'll abide in you. Read that whole chapter on how to abide. And they're like, well, how do we do that? He goes, abide in my word and I'll abide in you. That's it. So stir vivification. Do the things that stir your affections for the Lord. These are pre decisions, Kyle. Your. What are. You've got the something over something. You got six of them. One of them is standards over.
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B
Yeah, standards over goals.
- [24:38]
D
Okay? This is it. So goals are. I'm going to read my Bible this many times a day. A standard is, I'm going to be a godly man, and I'm not. This is what godly men do. They read their Bible, they're in biblical fellowship, they confess sin, they repent. And if you get those things backwards, you have goals. And then what do you do when you achieve your goals? You're like, so what do I do next? Okay, but standards are. This is who God called me to be redeemed me. Called me anointed, appointed me. Therefore, this is why I do these things. And I don't do those things.
- [25:09]
B
So, Phil, imagine going to your wife, your lovely bride, who is fantastic, by the way, and. And saying, you know what, baby? I have a goal. My goal is to love you as Christ loved the church today. It's my goal. She would be like, oh, okay, like, that's weird. And then you go to someone else. You know what? My goal is to not murder someone. That's my goal today. My goal is to not get angry and murder someone, pull them out of their car and beat them to death on the highway. Like that. That doesn't make any sense. It's like, what standard are we going to hold ourselves to as godly men, as godly women? It changes everything because your brain will change around something. A goal is temporary. You talked about, hey, commitments, they're cheap. I'm committed to this. Oh, the jack suck again. All right. I'm not committed to the. To watching the team anymore. It's just so cheap. But if you have a biblical standard, like, it changes everything. But I feel like, Phil, that. That men aren't diving in. I mean, when you said, get in the water so deep that you can't save yourself. Whoa. Like, okay. Because a lot of people love dipping their toe in. Because if you dip your toe in you get to point to the toe, right? Be like, look, my toe's wet, right? Like something's wet in here. But it's like if you haven't dove in so far. Like I had this thought, like my brain's kind of messed up. I thought like I was, you know, playing in the ocean with my son. Like if I got to a dark place, I wonder how far I could swim before I gave up. Yeah, but I would swim far enough to where I couldn't get back. A lot of guys think like that and they're just waiting for the day when they actually follow through with it. But it's like, man, that, that's how we should. We should go to the point to where it's. There's no choice but to look up at Jesus and for him to steady.
- [26:42]
C
There's another oxymoron. I said, unbelieving believer. Here's another one. Safe faith. There's no such thing as a safe faith. Faith can't be safe. Faith. Faith has to have a sense of. This doesn't come with a guarantee. I can't fully see the outcome. It's going to feel risky. It demanded a risk. When I turned into my wife that night for the first time, man, I didn't know it was going to happen. Risk. It was risky, man. It felt vulnerable. Men don't like to feel vulnerable. We don't like to feel weak, to admit. Look, we say all the time, I've heard it said this week, you want to be free, you got to get honest. The strength of sin is in its secrecy. You want to disarm the enemy. Transparency. It's 1 John 1:7. If we walk in the light, a sea is in the light. We have fellowship one with another. And the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us of all sin. I'd never done it with my wife. And for the first time I turn in and start to get honest about some things. Like, honey, I don't feel like I'm good enough for you. That's really part of what was going on all along. I don't feel like I can measure up. And so what happens is Satan creates a counterfeit reality that then becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. It was becoming a self fulfilling prophecy in my marriage. Until we disarm the enemy through truth, transparency, repentance, and man. I literally said, I don't care if she hurts me. I'm going to love her unconditionally with everything I have in me.
- [28:16]
E
You talked a lot about faith and I just thought when you were saying That I just thought, what does Hebrews say? That faith is the assurance. And so often we look for an outside assurance for the faith, but the scripture says no. The faith is the assurance, it is the guarantee. Yeah.
- [28:41]
D
Faith is the evidence of things unseen. Yeah. And you're saying we're looking for evidence outside of faith.
- [28:48]
E
Correct.
- [28:49]
D
That's good.
- [28:52]
E
It's contained inside of itself.
- [28:53]
C
All the promises of God are appropriated by faith in the word of God. So a lot of them, I say enough faith to get into heaven. We believe what the Bible says about our sin, our need for salvation, that Jesus died and rose again. But do we believe what he says about every other area of our life?
- [29:11]
D
One time, Dan Buckles, he's one of our elders. At one of our elder led prayers, he said, I know you believe in God, but do you believe God? And he was talking about some of the promises in the Word and I thought, bro, what a distinction.
- [29:26]
C
No doubt.
- [29:26]
D
No, you believe in God like Jesus died on the cross for your sins, like you did that.
- [29:30]
C
Yeah.
- [29:31]
D
But do you believe God like that he is more than enough that, that his sheep hear his voice and follow him and do what he says, and the voice of a stranger, they will not follow. Do you believe that? Do you? Do you believe that He's a good dad and he only wants to give good gifts to his kids? So if he's not giving you something, it might be a scorpion. And you, you think you're asking for a fish and you're actually asking for something terrible that would kill you.
- [29:59]
C
Yeah.
- [30:00]
D
Do I know you believe God? Believe in God, but do you believe.
- [30:03]
C
Do you believe he can resurrect your marriage?
- [30:04]
D
Right.
- [30:05]
C
And restore what's left?
- [30:06]
D
So that's actually that exact circumstance is where the phrase, in my life, if the tomb is empty, anything is possible.
- [30:13]
C
Yeah.
- [30:13]
D
I'm talking to a couple guys like, dude, I'm in an impossible marriage. I was like, what do you mean impossible? You're a Christian. Y' all have heard this before. I was like, you believe Jesus came out of the grave? And he's like, well, yeah, of course. That's the whole thing. I'm like, well, if the tomb is empty, anything is possible, right?
- [30:31]
C
Yeah, man.
- [30:32]
B
I literally wrote down your quote, phil, God can resurrect whatever in your life that has died. And then right next to it, I said, do we actually believe that?
- [30:40]
D
Right, right.
- [30:41]
B
Because it, it seems like a fundamental thing. Yeah. Middle Eastern Jewish construction worker, dead, raised back to life. Awesome. Ascended, Cool. All that stuff. Yeah. But my wife's Never going to change. Yeah, but my kids are never going to come back. Like, the, the prodigal will not return. Like I'm, I'm not going to be able to kick this addiction.
- [30:58]
C
Yeah.
- [30:58]
B
And it's just like, man, you're fighting with, you know, sword of fire on one side and the other side you're throwing pencils at people.
- [31:04]
C
And here's. I didn't even share this tonight. I was going to, but man, he, he gave me like 55 minutes, which was awesome.
- [31:10]
D
Let's go.
- [31:11]
C
But even then, some things I just didn't have time to say. So Kadesh bar means wilderness sanctuary. And I think I shared that. I didn't come back to it though. So the, the devil will allow you a wilderness sanctuary. He knows you're out of Egypt, that you're forgiven of your sin, that your home is heaven. He just wants to keep you from the promised land. Sanctification. He doesn't want you to live in victory daily practically. So he'll give you a wilderness sanctuary. He will give you a chance to make kind of a peaceful coalition with your sin or just mediocrity, quiet resignation. And that's what the children of Israel did for 40 years.
- [31:51]
D
Yeah, that's the back half of screw tape letters, by the way. Because at one point he writes the screw tape. He's like, oh no, we lost our guy. He joined the other team. And he's like, okay, all right, well, everything's not lost. We're going to lose him one day. But bog him down in politics and, and convince him that his faith is a means to a political end. That'll bog him down that that was a whole chapter. Then it's like, okay, well, no, no, no. Bog him down in his own self righteousness. Get him so concerned about the things that he is he's doing and not doing that he forgets about the enemy. And in that the enemy means God. Then he's like, have him join a committee in the church and get really bogged down in the color of the carpet and that kind of thing. That's exactly it. Because if you are saved, the enemy can't do anything about your eternity. And so the last thing he wants you to do is like, be on fire for the Lord so the enemy himself might actually give you what we would think are blessings to pacify you to sleep so you are not awake to the eternal realities. This is what you were talking about. You were, you got a guy coming on your show at some point that used to be in the church of Satan. And he taught that guy. I mean, you'll be able to say it better than me. That guy's testimony is, Satan gave me influence over people that I had never had before.
- [33:07]
B
Yeah. So this is a guy named Michael Lehan, by the way. Don't do what he did. And when I met him, like, 15 years ago, we're in this meeting. I don't even know what the meeting is for. We're all around this conference table. So go around. This guy's like, oh, yeah, here. This is my job. So I do. I'm like, oh, I'm like a 22 years old or something like that. Yeah, I just graduated this, that. And the other thing, this guy's like, hey, you know, I'm a pastor and all that, but I used to be practicing Satanist, and I was arrested for being in Craig Rochelle's church with a gun, and I was sent to kill him. I'm like, dude, you got to go first. You got to raise your hand first. You can't do that to all of us. We look like fools now.
- [33:38]
C
But.
- [33:39]
B
But his story, he wrote in a book called Ascent from Darkness. And he talked about. And he's coming back on the show because, you know, he. His wife noticed my tattoos at church on Sunday. And then he walked up. I'm like, michael Lean. He's like, yeah. And anyway, he said, like, he describes the moment when Satan entered him, like, on a soul level. And they started talking about the influence he was able to have on people, the influence he was able to have on women to bed them, the influence he was able to have on men to redirect their violent anger away from him and towards other people, all these things, right? And he would. He was doing spiritual warfare. He would go into churches and put, like, the. The Satanic Bible in the pews, right? He would. He would just do these different things. And I was talking to the pastor that went to his house the night he got saved, right? And this is not a sensational guy. He doesn't really, you know, do these big tales or whatever. And this is Craig Rochelle's number two. His name's Chris Beal. He said, Kyle, when I walked into the house, he wasn't telling me this on the show. He's just, you know, this is just a thing. He's like, when I walked into the house, I. I didn't understand oppression until the moment I walked in the house. He's like, I could barely move. I walked in the house. It was like there was a wet. An anvil on my chest when I walked in here, the, the, the demonic oppression was so thick, you could grab a fistful of it out of the air. And because there were like four or five pastors there and they're talking to the sky. And imagine the war going on for this man's soul, for Michael Lee Hand's soul when he turned his life to Christ. They literally, to a man, were like, like when you forget to breathe for a little bit, or when you're underwater a little bit too long and you come up and it's just like, I mean, what is that? And it's, it's again, you know, we're in this moment where this week you want to talk about principalities and powers. There's a war going on and all of us are in. But like Eric Metaxa says, a lot of in the church, committed Christians in the church feel they're leaving powder for tomorrow's battle. But there may not be a battle tomorrow. Today might be the last.
- [35:40]
C
Right?
- [35:41]
B
Just crazy.
- [35:42]
C
Yeah.
- [35:44]
E
Well, we're out of time, but I want to ask one more question. You, you know, so many illustrations, so many metaphors, and, and one was on the other side of death, a big one. On the other side of death is a resurrection. The most, the most. The biggest example you gave was in your marriage. What are some other deaths that need to die, that on the other side there could be a resurrection beyond what you can imagine that we could maybe leave some people with.
- [36:12]
C
You know, I mentioned specifically, like in my case one time, it was just a captivity to alcohol. Like I, I couldn't drink without getting drunk. That's, that's in my idea at the time. That's the only reason existed. Right. So, and I, you know, that, that merry go round of constantly, you know, I'm sorry, God, I'll never do it again. I really meant it. But again, your will will cave in. If you're trying to do it through self determination, willpower, you're fighting the flesh with the flesh. You know, for a lot of people though, that's not it. It's negative emotion. They are completely captive to their emotions. So, you know, we're really talking about now not submitting your body, living sacrifice, Romans 12:2, but rather the battle is in the mind. I mean, it's where the battleground happens. So, you know, it's guarding your heart and your mind, your thoughts and emotions. In Second Corinthians 10, 3, 5, though we walk in the flesh, we don't war according to the flesh. But the weapons of our warfare Are not carnal or physical mighty in God for the pulling down of strongholds, casting down arguments. Satan is always bringing arguments into our mind to argue against God. Casting down those arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Jesus Christ. This is where the warfare happens. Now watch this. Nowhere does Paul ever command us with our emotions. We can't command our emotions. You can't help all your feelings. What he says is command your thoughts. Because eventually what happens right thinking leads to right feeling. When you're feeling what is wrong, you think what is right. And this is how you overcome worry, anxiety, a lot of depression, a lot of bitterness, unforgiveness. If you lead with your emotions, you will forever be in captivity to your feelings. On the other hand, when you realize I'm feeling what is wrong, you think what is right. And again, it's not one and done. This is the warfare. But eventually when you put your faith in motion as opposed to living through the emotion, the feelings will follow. I guarantee. D you told this amazing story tonight, dude. How did she get there? How do you forgive the man that killed your brother in a dui? Because he's dui. I guarantee this is the process she had to choose. First. I'm going to live the crucified life. I will not allow my mind to live with that thought. I will crucify it. I will cast it out. She didn't maybe know what she was doing, but she was applying the cross to her thoughts. And then what happens? Eventually right thoughts lead to right feelings. She actually was able to forgive him. Love, loved it.
- [39:07]
E
Love him on top.
- [39:08]
C
Yeah.
- [39:08]
D
I mean you could tell I got one. You have to die to trying to control the outcomes of your children in order for the resurrection of their own. Walk with Jesus. Now it's not quite as applicable. Like you got littles.
- [39:28]
B
Yeah.
- [39:28]
D
You actually control them or they'll to the ocean. You got grown kids, you have no control. You have zero.
- [39:36]
C
You. Yep.
- [39:37]
D
@ best you got influence right. You kind of got them in the middle. Mine are a little bit more. Mine are a little closer to you.
- [39:43]
C
Yeah.
- [39:44]
D
I was on a some dude I'm the worst have been the worst at trying to control the outcomes for my children from a. From a pure hearted place because I just want them to have the abundant life.
- [39:55]
C
Right.
- [39:57]
D
And I was on a podcast with Charles Martin and he's just kind of. He's not even talking to me. He's talking to whoever we're talking To. And he says something to the effect of, my job is not to control my kids. My job is just to try to help them hear the voice of Jesus and do the next thing that he says. And I repented. Confessed to the Lord. Repented. Talked to Gretchen about it. I laid that thing down. And in that season, I have watched my son, the Lord, do a work in my son that I have been trying to manufacture and manipulate for 20 years of his whole life. So he comes and he's like, I think I'm gonna drop out of college, bro. I'm just telling you, a couple of years ago, I'd be like, you can't do that, man. We have degrees. We're smart. This is what we do. And then I was like, that's not my job. My job is not to tell him what God told him to do. My job is to help him hear from God.
- [40:53]
E
That's amazing.
- [40:54]
D
So today we could not be more pleased because the brother is walking with the Lord.
- [40:58]
C
And he is.
- [41:00]
D
And he's enrolled for fire school. Well, praise God for that. Then when he told me, I think God might be calling me my fireman, then my mind jumped to the. The story I tell more than any other story is about him getting the nurses out of the car in the car wreck. Yeah, I thought, you idiot. You with your manipulation dad, are trying to steer him in a direction different than where God's calling him to go.
- [41:20]
E
The kindness of God to. To allow you to make this connection. I've never heard you say this before, but the thing you're seeing now to the.
- [41:28]
D
There's no doubt in my mind, dude.
- [41:29]
C
And you don't know the truth. That's been one of the hardest thing in my life, personally, is as the seasons have come and gone, like, to really. I can surrender every part of my life to Jesus. I've learned to trust him with every part of my life. But when it comes to my kids, I got this, man. It's still hard for me to surrender. Watch this. Because there's nothing you love in this world more than you love your kids. Oh, and to trust God with your kids, that he has those outcomes in his hands. Joey, man. Oh, man.
- [41:57]
D
So, yeah, so how about this, man? So my kids on Wednesday, before saturated start, he calls me. He's like, dad, you have to say something about Charlie Kirk. Like, you. You can't be one of the worship leaders. You lead. This is what he's telling me on the phone. He worked. It's so funny. On the org chart, we could not Be further apart. You know, he's on staff right now here in. Working in operations. And he's. He gave me the best. Some of the best advice. He's like, dad, the Church needs to hear from you on this. I was like, all right, all right. I'm just telling you, if I was continuously trying to pull the strings in his life and manipulate his life for outcomes that I want, that's selfish. That is not death to self. That is me being more. This is me being more concerned about his last name than his first name. You know what I mean?
- [42:49]
C
Yeah. And that's when you lose what you need more than anything that you mentioned already. Influence. Yeah.
- [42:53]
D
So that's one. That's a practical application. You grow again when they're little, man. I'm not saying you're just like, let every kid, like, you got little guys, bro. You are. You got very tight guard rails right now. But what you've got to think of and what you're in the middle of, based on the age of your kids, is planned emancipation. And they're trained up and ready to. To launch and leave and still lean on you for influence because they know you love them. That is a death to self.
- [43:23]
C
You let go of control while you grow in influence.
- [43:26]
D
Yeah. Yeah. And that is a death and a resurrection. Because I know your little boys love you, but they honestly, they don't know anything else. You know what I mean? Like, I watched them walk in my office and hug dad. And by the way, well done on training them to introduce themselves, their names and shake hand or fist bump. I mean, I know they've been trained by you on that. All right. When they're 20 and choose to come walk in the office and give you a hug and say, pray, that's it. Now that's a death. Because you had to lay down control. And then there's a resurrection of an actual relationship with these people that you love so much.
- [44:02]
C
Yeah. And if you don't lay it down, not only do you lose control, but you also lose influence.
- [44:06]
D
Yeah.
- [44:07]
C
By trying to hang on. Yeah.
- [44:09]
D
Yeah. That's. So there's a practical application that I thought of.
- [44:12]
C
Yeah.
- [44:13]
E
We're very biblical because we said we're ending and we're, you know, doing like Paul. But I think. I think secular people talk about, like, the flow or things that are unleashed. I think that's what you're talking about. The power that's unleashed in surrender and in submission and in, like, that's seeing the power on the other side of it. It's just. It's incredible. So, Pastor, you want to say anything else or close us in prayer before.
- [44:36]
D
Thank you, my friend. Like I said before, I didn't. I don't just invite you just because you're my friend. I got a bunch of friends. They ain't never been invited to preach because they don't preach good enough, quite honestly. But that's great. But, dude, you. I told John Tyson this last night. The way I think about this is I love these people that I get to serve in shepherd, and I bring you here as a gift to them. And so way to bring it. This will be a sermon that I'll listen to on repeat.
- [45:05]
C
Well, Joby, look, it's a. It's an honor to preach on any platform, anytime. What a privilege God gives us. But I got to tell you, I'm so, so grateful for the opportunity to preach at 11:22. Grateful, grateful, grateful. Thank you.
- [45:18]
E
Yeah.
- [45:19]
D
Father in heaven, may we live the crucified life, that we may walk in resurrection power. We pray in Jesus name.
- [45:30]
C
Amen. Amen.
- [45:31]
B
Thank you for listening to the podcast.
- [45:34]
D
The end. You nailed it.
- [45:40]
A
The reality is everything already belongs to God. And when we give financially, we're acknowledging that we trust him. If you just watch this and feel led. To make a donation, text the word donate to 441-122 or visit coe22.com donate. Your generosity is not only an act of worship, but an investment so all people can discover and deepen a relationship with Jesus Christ.