The Call of a Godly Husband - S24E5

Summary

Podcast Summary: Deepen with Pastor Joby Martin

Episode: The Call of a Godly Husband (S24E5)
Date: November 17, 2025
Theme: A Christ-centered exploration of what it means to be a godly husband—relevant for married men, singles, and women alike—unpacking Ephesians 5, real-life struggles, and practical wisdom for Christian marriage.

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Episode Overview

In this heartfelt and humorous conversation, Pastor Joby Martin and special guests embark on a deep and practical discussion about the biblical call of a godly husband, seen through the lens of Ephesians 5. They address why this message is crucial for everyone (not just husbands) and examine the challenges, failures, and joys inherent in striving to love one’s wife as Christ loves the church. The episode blends scriptural teaching, transparent personal stories, pastor-to-pastor wisdom, and actionable advice for men at every stage of life and relationships.

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1. Why This Matters for Everyone

[00:27-04:25]

• Godly husbands as a linchpin of society: Pastor Joby emphasizes the foundational role of husbands in God’s creation. Regardless of one’s marital status, understanding this blueprint either shapes what to seek in a spouse, how to raise sons/daughters, or how to encourage husbands around us.
  • “The Bible is applicable to us all, regardless of who we're talking about or talking to. So anytime you open the word of God, it's going to be helpful to you, regardless of the subject that you're reading.” — D [01:44]
• For singles:
  • Ladies: “With the exception of your relationship with Jesus, [who you marry] is the single most important decision.” — C [02:09]
  • Men: “You’re not gonna just snap your fingers the moment you say, ‘I do’ and become Ephesians 5. It’s probably a good idea to start working on it before you say, ‘I do.’” — E [03:25]

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2. Nobody’s Crushing It—Real Talk About Husbands’ Struggles

[04:29-12:18]

• All husbands fall short: The pastors candidly discuss their failures to meet the biblical standard, underscoring the ongoing need for God’s grace.
  • “Probably my number one failure consistently is not living up to the biblical standard of what Christ has called me to.” — D [04:43]
  • “You play like you practice. ... If you're nothing but a consumer in your dating life, do you think God's gonna be like, 'You're perfectly ready for me to let you have one of my girls?'” — D [03:53]
• Love is an Action, Not a Feeling:
  • “That word, love, is an action. It is not a feeling.” — C [09:25]
  • “A lot of us ... will assess ourselves as crushing it because of what we feel inside; but we’re not actually doing the things.” — D [09:00]
• Humorous truths & early marriage anecdotes: The pastors share stories of marital cluelessness, like prioritizing hobbies (deer season) over spouses, highlighting that self-awareness and growth require time and correction.

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3. What Does a Godly Husband Actually Do?

Biblical Foundations & Everyday Realities
[12:18-19:59]

a. Sacrificial Leadership

• Christ’s Example: Husbands are called to love “as Christ loved the church.”
  • “One of the primary ways that Christ loved the church was He loved the church first. ... Jesus didn’t sit back in heaven when we dropped the ball and sinned and failed. … He pursued us. He came to us.” — C [22:58]
• Chief Repenter:
  • “A husband is the chief repenter ... If we don’t lead in repentance, how do our kids know what it looks like?” — E [20:00]

b. Pursuing Her Heart

• Becoming a student of your wife:
  • “Your job is to become a student of her ... and love her the way she needs it—sometimes with not-great clues or misinformation coming at you.” — D [16:23]
• Pay attention to her needs: The panel stresses learning your wife’s “love language” and wiring (words of affirmation, acts of service, etc.), rather than loving her as you’d prefer to be loved.

c. Initiating Reconciliation

• Men must “lose every argument”:
  • “As the Christ figure, you’ve got to wade into that and go, man, I’m gonna take it on the chin, even though I might not be wrong here. ... Get rid of your pride—Jesus did.” — C [34:55]
  • “If you’re married and you get in an argument, you can be right or you can be married.” — D [28:21]

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4. Practical Wisdom: Loving Your Wife Like Christ Loved the Church

[35:32-54:31]

a. Spiritual Leadership & Prayer

• Pray aloud over your wife daily:
  • “Husbands, step one: pray out loud over your wife every day. ... When y’all open your eyes, she’s gonna be crying and you’re gonna be like, ‘Oh, God, what did I do wrong?’ You didn’t do anything wrong. You’re killing it, Hercules.” — D [39:37]
  • “There are very few things I experience the attack of the enemy in a greater degree than when it comes to praying with my wife.” — C [41:07]

b. Acts of Service & Love Languages

• Serve in her language:
  • “Husbands, find the way that your wife receives love and you love her that way.” — C [43:30]
  • “She really appreciates it when I do the little things like laundry is a thing. ... It took me a while to figure out.” — E [43:52]
• Negotiating for love, not leverage: Non-manipulative negotiation about needs and preferences fosters intimacy and mutual understanding.
  • “Negotiations are very, very central tasks of happily married people. And you’re not trying to negotiate so you get what you want; you’re trying to negotiate so that you can love your spouse well.” — D [45:05]

c. Continual Learning & Observation

• Be a lifelong student of your wife: Notice patterns, anticipate her needs, and ask, “What could I do that would make you feel loved?”—then actually act on the answer.
  • “If you don’t know what your wife’s love language is … ask her … and let her talk.” — C [53:19]

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5. Why Is This Core to Biblical Manhood?

[54:31-58:26]

• Spiritual vitality linked to marriage:
  • “Peter says if you don’t love your wife right, God’s not answering your prayers.” — D [54:31]
• Marriage as a gospel display:
  • “Your marriage … the primary purpose of our marriages is to display Christ’s love for the church and man. That ought to mean something to us.” — C [55:55]
• A bride’s daily act of trust: (Most memorable quote)
  • “Every day when she wakes up, she is saying, ‘I'm trusting all of me to all of you.’ … If I can stay in the place where my heart sees that … It's not a competition, it's not, what am I getting out of this? It's like, oh, my goodness. Really? ... All I want to do is love you back.” — E [57:46]

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6. Memorable Quotes & Notable Moments

• “God tells Adam ... you’ve gotta listen to her heart. ... Sometimes, even when she says everything’s fine, you need to care for her heart and really make sure everything’s okay.” — D [16:23]
• “At my root, Charles is just selfish. I don't want to be. But Romans 7, oh, wretched man that I am...” — E [21:05]
• “If you're nothing but a consumer in your dating life, do you think God’s gonna be like, 'Oh, yeah, you’re perfectly ready for me to let you have one of my girls?' There’s no chance, man.” — D [03:38]
• “Don't let the sun go down on your anger ... If we don’t lead in repentance, how do our kids know what it looks like?” — E [19:59]
• “Negotiations are a very central task of happily married people ... Not a hostage negotiation—but ‘Here's some things that are meaningful, you do with them what you want. But generally, when people love each other, they want to serve one another.’” — D [45:05]

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7. Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:27] - Why this episode applies to everyone, not just husbands
• [03:38] - The myth of instant marital transformation and the need to “practice”
• [04:43] - Pastoral vulnerability: “Nobody’s crushing it”
• [09:25] - Love as action, not just intention/affection
• [13:23] - Early marriage realities: When husbands think they’re doing great, but aren’t
• [20:00] - The critical spiritual discipline of repentance in marriage and family
• [22:58] - Christ’s pursuing love: the model for husbands
• [28:21] - “You can be right or you can be married” – choosing reconciliation over pride
• [35:51] - Concrete ways husbands can lead and love like Christ
• [39:37] - “Step one: pray out loud over your wife every day” – spiritual leadership
• [45:05] - Negotiation as servant-hearted communication in marriage
• [53:19] - The power of asking your wife sincere questions
• [54:31] - Why marriage is central to biblical manhood and Christian witness

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8. Closing Thoughts

This episode paints marriage as an ongoing, grace-fueled journey where husbands are called to Christ-like sacrifice, not just for personal fulfillment but as a witness to the gospel. The pastors urge men to step into repentance, study their wives, serve sacrificially, and make prayer their battleground for love. The rich, vulnerable stories and biblical wisdom woven through the episode offer hope and practical next steps for every listener—married, single, male, or female.

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For Husbands

• Pursue your wife’s heart.
• Sacrifice and lead spiritually.
• Be chief in repentance.
• Do the small, practical things.
• Pray over her every day.

For everyone:

• Let God’s transforming love flow through your relationships, making your home an outpost of the gospel to the world.

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“Can you imagine? I want people who don’t know the Lord to see Wes and I's marriage and say, ‘Wait, that's a taste of what it’s like to be in a relationship with Jesus.’” — B [58:26]

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to Deepen with Pastor Joby Martin. The Church of 1122 is a movement for all people to discover and deepen a relationship with Jesus Christ. And we're praying this message helps you deepen your relationship with him. Now let's dive in.

[B]

All right, welcome back to the Deepen podcast. We are in our Stand Firm and Act like men Series. Week 5 on Be A Godly Husband.

[C]

Let's go.

[B]

Let's go. And we're surrounded by perfect godly husbands. Okay, before we get into being godly husband, this podcast, there, we have all different types of listeners. We have single guys. We have women single moms. So this week on Be a Godly Husband, why does it matter for everyone and for that person that they don't fall in that category of being a husband? Why should they not check out, not skip this episode and be here for this conversation?

[D]

Well, really, like the linchpin of our entire society based on God's creative order is godly husbands. And so if you're a single woman, don't you want to know what to look for? If you're a single mom, don't you either want to raise one of these little guys or raise a daughter that does not lower her standards to look for this? We all know husbands, and we want to encourage them to be who God has called them to be. And honestly, one of the things that I'm so proud of the women of the church of Alexander 1122 about is we don't get a lot of the. Well, that's not fair. What about me? We just don't get that. We get a lot of go get them, Pastor. We know they need it, and we're. We're over here praying like crazy. And it's not like we neglect the women of the church. You know, we. I mean, you help lead the women's encounter and things like that, but you know that that comes out of a what's in it for me? Kind of attitude. And I just don't see that a lot in the women of 1122. I see a whole lot of the Bible is applicable to us all, regardless of who we're talking about or talking to. So anytime you open the word of God, it's going to be helpful to you, regardless of the subject that you're reading.

[C]

That's right. You know, and Pastor Joby just said it. I think for. For single women especially, I think this is crucial because it's like he just said, you've got to know what it is that you're looking for. In a husband. And this guy. I mean, the person that you marry with, with the exception of your relationship with Jesus, is the single most important decision you will ever make in your life. It impacts every day of your life. And. And so who you marry is. Is pretty important. And so, you know what we're going to unpack, you know, in this sermon and today is what kind of the blueprint for a godly husband looks like.

[E]

So, pretty important stuff with regards to single men. There's this idea amongst us idiots before we get married that we're going to be who we want to be prior to getting married. And then once we get married, we'll settle down and we'll be. We'll become the person that she. That's a lie. It's not. So for all of you guys out there listening that are not yet married, that are trying to figure out who. Who do I need to. Who. Who is the Lord calling me or commanding me or if I'm going to follow him, what does it look like to be? What's a father look like, a husband look like? This is this. Is that that training ground for. For those guys? Because you're not going to just snap your fingers the moment you say, I do and become Ephesians 5. You just don't. Now, marriage might work that out of you after 20, 30 years, but it's probably a good idea to start working on it before you say, I do.

[D]

Yeah, my football coach just used to say, you play like you practice. So if he fumbled in every practice, do you think in the game they'll be like, hey, we should get the guy that fumbles all the time? So if you're nothing but a consumer in your dating life, do you think God's gonna be like, oh, yeah, you're perfectly ready for me to let you have one of my girls? There's no chance, man. And so. And this doesn't mean you just practice in your dating life. It starts with your mama. So every dude has at least a woman to love. It's a mama, it's a sister, it's a Christian sister. And so that's where you practice. You begin by loving the single guys. You begin by loving the girls here at this church, as Christ loved the church, not what can I get from her, but how can I serve?

[C]

Amen.

[B]

And then for the husbands listening, either.

[D]

The ones buckle up, buckle up.

[B]

Are crushing it, or the ones who are like, man, I've really messed this up, but I'm ready to make a move. What's your encouragement for them to lean in over the next, I don't know, 45, 50 minutes.

[D]

Number one, nobody's crushing it. You were sitting with three men that care deeply about this. And I mean, I care a lot about this and try hard and know many Bible verses and have the spirit of God living in me. And probably my number one failure consistently is not living up to the biblical standard of what Christ has called me to in regards to my relationship with Gretchen, who, by the way, I love so much. It's not like I don't like her. I mean, like, she's so pretty and awesome and like, we just had this great date last night, and this is good because we're coming off of, like, the perfect day yesterday, so. And even with all that, it's not like I've gotta, like, love an unlovable person or I'm not even trying to be married to somebody that, like, when I married. Or she was one way. And now I've got this whole new thing that I've got to learn to love. That's. I don't. I mean, I've freaking won the lottery, bro. And yet I still just get so dumb and selfish all, all, all that you just said.

[E]

I am all of that and worse.

[D]

Yeah, I don't see that in you.

[C]

But yeah, and here's the good news is, you know, when you're growing up, especially if you grew up in church and you hear this statement made a lot of, lot of times you'll hear that as a husband, you're supposed to be the leader of your family and your marriage. And it says it right here that Christ is the standard, you know, and so we're going to fall short of that standard pretty regularly, Pastor. But here's the good news, is that Paul gets very specific about what it looks like to lead your wife, lead your family, and that's the good news. He says, man, do this, do this, do this. And so it does give us an outline for something we can aspire to. Yeah, but Pastor is right. You're not going to hit it, but at least you know what the target is, and that's a good thing.

[D]

Well, can I just say something? You know, it just makes me laugh if you just look at the text. It's like, wives, submit to your own husbands. Here's why. That's all I have to say to you because you guys are really smart and intuitive and discerning and you know what I mean? Now it's like, husbands, love your wives. I'm gonna need three paragraphs. You Idiots of what that actually means. Because most honestly, too, most wives immediate look in the mirror and be like, oh, man, I need help. And I got some serious work to do. And a bunch of dumb dudes are like, oh, I'm probably killing it. I mean, I'm telling you again what's crazy. If you walk with Christ for a long time, I'm stealing this from John MacArthur, who I don't quote very often. Two things simultaneously happen. If you, in your sanctification process, you sin less and you're more miserable about it, so the closer you get to Christ, you actually. I mean, I'm telling you, we first got married. We've been married about eight months or something, and I rush home from work and I run into the bedroom and I change clothes. I put on my gym clothes, and I'm about to rush out to the gym, and I walk out and I'm tying my shoes and Gretchen is bawling on the couch.

[C]

You ain't got no idea why?

[D]

I was like, what is wrong? And she goes, this just isn't working. And I was like, what are you saying?

[E]

This is.

[D]

It's great. I mean, I. I got, you know, I pay the bills, I do the weed eating. What else could you want?

[C]

I mean, feed my kids, you know.

[D]

So my standard was so low. And a bunch of dudes, I mean, they think, like, you know, I ain't hitting anybody.

[C]

And I go to work every morning.

[D]

I'm relatively faithful, at least with other, like, people you can touch. So I'm in the A category. So I think a part of it. So the spirit of God knows he's dealing with a bunch of idiots called men. And it takes a lot like. Like Carter saying is a lot of ink. Let's just go step by step. Give some. Grab onto these handles, boys. This is. This is what you do. Yeah. Not feel. Not just feel. Because a lot of us. I mean, I. I'm so guilty of this. I have such strong, loving feelings for Gretchen that I. If I'm not careful, I will assess myself as crushing it. That's because on the inside of my heart, I know what I feel for her. You know, that's good. But I'm not actually doing the things. I'm still even being selfish in some of that.

[C]

And that word love is an action.

[D]

Correct.

[C]

It is not a feeling.

[D]

Correct.

[C]

It's not feo. You know, feo is the. The Greek word for love, which means, like, you love deer hunting, right? That's not what that means. Love is like how you actually Sacrifice. You know, Pastor Joby just said something, I think, so important, you know, how stupid were we when we first got married, right? I mean, we knew the Bible verses. You're going to. I don't think I've ever told you this story before. You'll appreciate it, but. First real argument that my wife and I ever got into was first year marriage. And it was opening day of deer season. And for the first opening day of deer season of my life, I was going, instead of being in a deer stand, I was with her in a car driving to go see my mother and father in law. It just worked out that way. And. And, Pastor, I was depressed.

[D]

Hopefully they live on a ranch and. No, they don't.

[C]

No, that's another story for another day. They don't. And I was depressed because opening day of deer season, man, it's like Christmas morning.

[D]

It's better than Christmas.

[C]

It's better than Christmas. And I. I was depressed. And finally she looks at me, she goes, what's wrong with you? And. And I said, baby, look, it's open day of deer season. The first time in my life I'm not with my uncle, my dad, my cousins out, you know, sitting in a deer stand. And then she asked me this question. She goes, you're telling me.

[D]

You see where this is going, Fell for, oh.

[C]

No, that you'd rather be in a deer stand right now than in this car with me? And I said, that's right. And she started crying, and it was a bad drive to the mother and father in law's house. We're stupid, Pastor.

[B]

All right, so here's what I know about the three of you. That even when I said, I'm around these godly husbands, which I fully believe that all of you are godly husbands, you all kind of rolled your eyes, laugh like, you know, no one feels like they're crushing it. But the three of you, every time you talk about your wives in a story, when you're preaching, you get a little choked up. Like, it is the thing that you can evidently see how in love with your wives that you are. So I do believe, even though I know you'll be hard on yourselves, that you are three of the godliest husbands that I know personally. And so I do think there's a lot to share, both from your pastoral hearts and from the work you've put in. Let's go around. How many years have y' all been married?

[E]

This year's 32, 25.

[C]

30 this year?

[B]

Yeah. You've put in a lot of years. And I'm coming up on eight years.

[E]

Let's go.

[D]

You're doing it, and we are doing it.

[C]

And.

[B]

Yeah, so. And all those of us in our first decade, we want to get to the multi decades. And so I'm really excited to just hear what y' all have to share.

[D]

Yvonne, it actually gets better.

[E]

It does, it does.

[B]

You know, we do talk about that. I know. Again, we're not as far along, but we do feel like every year.

[D]

No, you're in the Hurt Locker right now, man.

[C]

Like seven, eight, nine, man. Well, they go fat land your kids.

[E]

Right, Right.

[D]

You, like, physiologically cannot be fully available to your husband because, sure, you have two little lives that if you don't do your job, mom, they're not gonna make it.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

And you know, and so it. I mean, it's a lot. It's a lot.

[B]

Well, we joked, even just last night we took our kids to the park and they're at the ages now, they're 2 and 4, where they were playing themselves in the park and we were sitting on the bench together. We were like. We kind of feel like we're on.

[D]

A date right now, which.

[B]

Yeah, our bar is, like, a little low for quality time.

[D]

No, that's it, right.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Right.

[B]

So I know again, you don't necessarily feel like you're the godliest husbands all the time, but is there a particular season in your life, maybe early on in marriage where you. You knew that you weren't living up or crushing being a godly husband to your wife?

[C]

You know, I. I tell a story in the. In the sermon, and I won't. I won't retell it here, but, you know, when I was in my early 30s, about year seven or eight in the marriage, if you'd have come up and talk to me and said, matt, how would you rate yourself as a husband? I would. I mean, I would have said, I'm the husband of the decade, you know, and I'm gonna tell you why. Because I'm married to one of these women that just. She's not a complainer. I know, I know some people are complainers. She's just not. She walks with Jesus. She. She like, she reads her Bible every single day of her entire life, rain or shine. She just loves Jesus. She loves Jesus a lot more than me. And. And so she's just not a complainer. And so she never complaining about the fact that I stunk. I wasn't pursuing her heart. I was not leading her. I was trying to change the world. And so. And you know, you heard in, in the sermon, she sat down with me one night and she said, look, I'm not okay? And that was the moment that I went on about a 20 year journey on what it looked like to love my wife. Like Christ loved the church. And so what about you? You. You're stud. I mean, you, you know.

[D]

No, I mean, the, the amount of times where Gretchen has felt like she's playing second to church is. I can't even count, you know, and it's. It's hard. You know, it's really hard. And I mean, part of the things that we're gonna. One of the things we're gonna get into here is when Paul's trying to explain to the men how to love his wife, right? He's like, so. So in the same way, husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife, loves himself. For no one has ever hated his own flesh. And, and the number of women that have said, I hate my own flesh. And I'm like, yeah, he's talking to dudes. You know, a dude can be like 50 and 50 pounds overweight, get out of the shower and catch a reflection. Be like, look at here. Still got it. Like, he loves him some him. And there is nothing more selfish than a single guy. And I don't even mean that negatively. All you, you have become an expert at taking care of you, and nobody's had to tell. Like, if you're driving in your truck and you get thirsty, nobody tells you you're thirsty. And what do you do? You do something about it and you pull over and you get you what you like to drink, and you're never wrong.

[E]

And nobody tells you that you're wrong.

[D]

And Paul's like, so learn to love her that way. Ooh, that's complicated. Like, I know, but you can tell when the deer walk and when the waves are rolling and when the fish bite. You know the statistics on Tim Tebow when he was in the eighth grade, okay? So you know what is important to you, and you got to begin to. Peter says, live with your wives as unto knowledge. Like, your job is to become a student of her.

[C]

That's right.

[D]

And then love her in the way that she needs it. With not only not great clues sometimes, but sometimes even some misinformation coming at you. I mean, think about this. God tells Adam. He's like, you know what your problem is, dude? You listen to the voice of your wife. He's like, what? She said everything was fine. Like, I know, but you gotta Listen to her heart. And so that's different. And so oftentimes what I will fall into the trap of because my wife is just a freaking baller, man. Yeah, dude, there's no 1122 without Gretchen on a number of levels. We were talking about this the other day because I was just telling her like how valuable she is to this and. And I was like, listen, man, if you were a nag and a complainer and didn't like help fuel what I do, I'm just telling you, we baptized 200 people that saturated, not 860. I'm just telling you that's how that math works out, 100%. And. And so since she's not a complainer, though, sometimes I will fall for the crap of just hearing, no, everything's fine. Instead of being the husband who is supposed to like, garden, intend, care for, not just fall for the initial evidence, you see, but do a deeper dive and care for her heart and really make sure everything's okay. When I'm not doing that, what's actually happening is I'm being selfish and I'm trying to use her for me to flourish instead of lay me down for her to flourish. And the number of times we've been there, it's just. It's a lot. It's a lot.

[B]

What about you, Charles?

[E]

Well, two come to mind. Early in our marriage. We had gotten married, gone to grad school, spent a couple years there, came home and my. My brother in law, Tommy, who I. I love dearly and I'm grateful for him, gave me a job working in the insurance business. Now I. I'm not good at.

[B]

That's hard to picture.

[E]

You don't want me doing that. I admit that. And to his great credit, he hired me anyway. And so I spent a couple years working with him. And it was hard for me. And I don't mean this in any ungrateful way. He did for me what nobody else was. He gave me a chance to take care of my family and to help him. And I loved it. But I was not, I was really conflicted internally because I had this thing I wanted to do and I wasn't doing it. And that thing was writing. And I had written a lot. I had a manuscript and a drawer. And anyway, I was continually frustrated and we traveled a lot and I was away from her and away from the kids. And when I got home, I think as I look back on those times, I can look back on the frustration I felt and the emotions I probably carried. And there was probably some Anger there, just like, lord, why, why, why, why? Why this? Why am I doing this? And I think I. I don't think I know. I. I took it out on her. Not. Not in an abusive way, but just in a way that I. I was probably just a crank and probably not a lot of fun. I think if she were sitting here, she would. And if she was honest, which to her credit, she is, she would say, yeah, you weren't a lot of fun. The second is a little more recent, and I've had to repent for it lately. So one of the things you've said before is that husband ought to be the chief repenter in the household.

[C]

That's right.

[E]

You're just totally spot on. And if we don't lead in repentance, how do our kids know what it looks like?

[D]

100%?

[E]

And here in the last couple of weeks, Christy and I were having a. What do you call it, Vigorous discussion, robust dialogue.

[D]

Robust dialogue.

[E]

And we were not. We were not agreeing on. On something. And I. Looking back on it, I wasn't. If you look at the whole context of it, I wasn't necessarily wrong in what I was saying, but I was certainly wrong in the bigger picture, which matters a whole heck of a lot more, which is this. I was not making her stuff more important than my stuff. I just wasn't. And somehow, as the husband, I've got to figure out how to take care of all of the details, finances, the whole thing, and figure out how to make her stuff more important than my stuff. And I want to. That's my heart's desire. I want to. So I hadn't done that, and I didn't. And it ended. The scripture says, don't let the sun go down your anger. And I did. So we had another vigorous discussion the next day, which is better. And we ended up still loving on one another and that whole thing. But my struggle, and this is just my selfishness. It just is. At my root, Charles is just selfish. I don't want to be. But Romans 7, oh, wretched man that I am, who will deliver me from this body of death? There's only one person who can do that, and it's not me. But in my root, I'm selfish. So I think the thing that I wrestle with continually as we are married more and more is, am I. Am I really pursuing her heart? Am I present with her in the moments that I'm with her? She told me this morning that I wasn't because I was on this thing and because I was taking Care of some details for work, you know, and. But it's. Am I making her stuff more important than my stuff? Because she doesn't ever demand that. She just doesn't. So that's my.

[B]

Pastor. Matt, you said in the sermon, husbands pursue the hearts of their wives even when there's conflict and disunity. So for the. The people listening who heard you all share, and I appreciate you all sharing so much, and they're just in a difficult marriage. So all of you said, you know, your wives, their bend isn't to complain or up conflict, but that's not necessarily true in a lot of marriages. And there are a lot of us women who do voice things. And. And so for the person who's in a difficult marriage trying to walk out pursuing the hearts of their wives, even when there's conflict and disunity, what does that look like?

[C]

Yeah, So I think the. The key phrase in this whole text is husbands love your wife like, or as Christ loved the church. And that is a pretty high standard that our calling as a husband, whoever's listening to this, if you're a husband, your calling is to love that woman in the way that Jesus Christ loved his bride, the church. I remember when I was studying for this, I began to ask myself the question, when I say studying for this, I've studied this a long time. What does that mean? How did Christ love the church? And one of the primary ways that Christ loved the church was he loved the church first. You know, the scripture says we love because Christ first loved us. And I think that's key in a marriage. You know, Jesus didn't sit back in heaven when we dropped the ball and sinned and failed. He did not fold his arms and look at us and say, hey, get your stuff together, repent, fix yourself, and then I'll come love you. The scripture says when we were dead in our trespasses and in our sins, we had no hope. He pursued us. He came to us. So it goes back to this thing that pastor just said, is that a husband is the chief repenter. And so one of the things that I'm constantly thinking about in my marriage is, especially in the days back in the day when. When we were in conflict and God got a hold of my heart, is I got up every morning. And as difficult as it was, I'm asking the question, how can I love my wife today, regardless of whether or not she was loving me in return? That was the key linchpin of the change of our marriage, is when God just wrecked me out And I made the decision. I'm going to live this out by the grace of God in my life. I'm going to pursue her heart. I'm going to repent first in arguments. I'm going to love her regardless of whether she's loving me in return. And when that happened and she saw that in my life, guess what? She's like, you know what? I'm going to start doing that to him. And then you fast forward 20 something years and, man, we are at a gorgeous, amazing, beautiful place in our marriage. It's because two people loving each other and loving each other first. And so it's good.

[D]

Yeah. And Jesus and his bride, who's the crazy one? Like, I'm not saying some of y' all didn't choose poorly. I mean, straight up, man, I get it, you married to crazy, but so is Jesus. And he just loves us relentlessly. It's never ending. It's not fair. All of the things, I mean, you could do, you could spend a year in Bible study just on how Christ loves us, you know, and the other thing is like. And it's not manipulative. The, the. There's many, many helpful, like marriage books about love, languages and communication and all of that stuff. And that's really helpful if, like two relatively healthy people that are married and a relatively healthy marriage. Some of those tips and tricks kind of things would be good for, like, you and Wes. You know, you're doing pretty dang good. You're not in the ditch. And so you could tune up and tighten up a little bit and you'd be like, you know, actually when you tell me you love me, it's fine. But if you do a little laundry, that'd be more fun, you know, that's cool for that. That ain't gonna help the group that's just honestly trying to manipulate each other to get what they want. Christ has to do, like a significant work in the hearts of those people where none of those love language, all that stuff is going to be worth. It's going to be a waste of time, man. You're just barking up the wrong tree if Christ is not in the middle. In fact, what I think is that in verse 21, the NIV says, Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. So before you ever get going, if Jesus is not just in the middle of your marriage.

[E]

Yeah.

[D]

I don't know how to tell you to be married at that point. It's a sociological crapshoot on how it's going to go, truly, like, just Based on your wirings and your birth order and your temperament, it might kind of work out, you know, if you got kind of an IQ equivalent and you've got some of the same desires and, you know, whatever, but it's a friggin. It's just, it's just roll the dice. And hopefully you got lucky and you are compatible. Well, apparently that's less than 50. 50. But for you to be married, you got to have Jesus in the middle of it, reconciling all things, period.

[C]

And, and the husband is the. I wrote this down. Should be the initiator of reconciliation. He's, He's. He is the Christ figure in the marriage. He's not Christ, but he's the Christ figure. It's what Christ is, who he represents. And so in the same way that Jesus was the initiator of reconciliation for us, just really practically, one of the things that I did is I made the decision. I'm going to be the initiator of reconciliation. Shouldn't always be the case, but primarily I'm the one that, in an argument that I am trying to lower the temperature of the argument.

[D]

Yeah, people think I'm juggling when I say this. If you're married and you get no argument, you can be right or you can be married.

[C]

That's right.

[D]

There's a bunch of dudes that are right and ain't mar no more. And they're. And people are like, where'd you get that? Well, bro, Jesus showed up not to be right. He was right.

[C]

That's right.

[D]

But he could have looked at us and like, I ain't dying for your sin. That ain't my fault.

[E]

You did the sin and you do the dying.

[D]

And he took responsibility for a thing that was not his fault. He was more interested in our righteousness than his rightness.

[E]

That's it.

[D]

And that's how we're supposed to love.

[B]

Yeah. No, honestly, WES is right 99 of the time.

[D]

There's no doubt.

[C]

Wait, wait, wait a minute. What did you just say?

[B]

I'm, I'm just, I am saying it's true.

[E]

This.

[B]

See, I'm a really good wife.

[C]

My wife has personally never said anything close to that, but.

[B]

Yeah, go ahead. She probably has. Not to you.

[C]

That's right.

[D]

That's right.

[B]

But I, we even talk about it because he's just able to get like A to B to C to D to E. It's like a more logical path. I'm kind of A to G to Z, back to B. And so. And I even Heard you say that, Charles, when you were sharing, like you knew that the words you were saying were right. But that doesn't mean that's properly loving your wife.

[E]

Correct. Thank you. Thank you for bringing that. Yeah.

[B]

One more time.

[E]

Thanks for bringing.

[B]

Okay, so.

[E]

Well, let me say. Let me say this, though. One thing that you talk about, being the. The chief or for the initiator of reconciliation, one of the things that. And I thank God for the spirit of God dwelling in me, because I felt this early in our marriage, which was this, whenever we've had a vigorous discussion, and we are at that place where we're just simply saying the same things back and forth, and we've said them now for four hours, and we're not getting. We've done nothing. We're in both ditches on either side of the road. There's not there. She's more entrenched, I'm more entrenched. I have been grateful for the fact that we are both mutually submitted and. And my wife is. Because there have been, I don't know, a hundred times in our married life where we've been at that place. And I've said, honey, I don't want to pray, but I know I cannot fix me and I cannot fix you, and I cannot fix us, but I do know who can, so can we please pray? And I just do this. And to her great credit, she's never refused my hand in that. And we have prayed as recently as a week ago, sitting in Colorado on a bench like, honey, I can't fix us, but I do know there's a hardness in me, and we need the Holy Spirit to do in us what we can't. And I just sit and I just pray, and I'm honest, and I'm like, lord, I don't want to pray, but I know we need to bring this to you because you know what is true. You know our hearts, you know the things that we're not able to communicate that we wish we could, you know where we're wrong. So we just bring all of that steaming mess to you, and I repent, and I do that before the Lord. I'm like, lord, I'm sorry, both to you and to her.

[C]

Have you always done that, or was it later on in your marriage that you were able to take that step of initiation of a reconciliation? It took me a while, I think.

[E]

I don't know. I don't want to pretend like I had it all together. I do believe we did it early. I know I've done it much More in the later years. But it's been the thing. It's been the thing. It's been the thing that has renewed my heart for my wife. It's been the thing that's softened my heart's wife for me. And it's also like us together, even with all of our frustration with one another, whatever we might be feeling in the moment, for us to lay that down and walk before the throne of grace and ask to receive grace and find mercy in that moment, the Lord has honored that.

[D]

That. Yeah.

[B]

Sticking with that, being the initiators of reconciliation. Why do you think it's so hard for men to take the first step in reconciliation, in love, in leadership, in their marriage?

[E]

That's easy.

[D]

Pride.

[E]

Pride.

[D]

If you go down to the end, you know, Paul just sums the whole thing up with, husbands love your wives. Wives respect your husband. And when we, when the man feels disrespected, man, it starts pushing all kind of buttons, like dad wounds. And when you got embarrassed in the eighth grade. And I mean, do I have what it takes? And now this woman who has seen me get out of the shower doesn't think I have what it takes. I mean, all of that junk. And oftentimes the reason we don't submit ourselves to one another, it's just pride. And a part of what we're screaming is, come on, babe, I need you to tell me I have what it takes. If anybody. I know I don't, actually, but can you at least go along with me on this one? And oftentimes when you're bumping heads, it's because you, the guy screwed something up and he's trying to salve his egos, like scrambling for air, man. And, and so we, we just do dumb stuff. We get selfish. We act like little boys. We pout. We have to have our own way. It's so dumb. We act like. You hear Nate Burgazzi talk about when you get in a spat with your wife and you give him the silent treatment. You're like, I'm not going to talk to her all day. He's like, it's not like we live in a mansion. We have one hallway and we pass each other like, I'm not even talking. It's so dumb. Right? That's what happens. We pouting out like little boys. I, I, I pout and act like, boy, that's because I'm selfish. And selfishness is rooted in pride.

[C]

I did for a long time. I remember, I can't remember the old guy's name, but he was probably 80 years old. I was in my 20s and he'd been married for a long time and, and he introduced, introduced me to his wife and he said, this is my, my wife, so and so she's best friend. He said, he said, I wouldn't, I wouldn't take a billion dollars for. And he said, I wouldn't give you a nickel for another one just like her. And I thought, I was like, that's brilliant, you know. But anyway, I sat down with him and I said, what's the secret to marriage? And he said something that I vehemently disagreed with at the time. He said, lose every argument. And I remember thinking, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my entire life. And now that I've been married for 30 years, men lose every argument. Because you can win an argument, then.

[D]

You'Re married to a loser, but you're.

[C]

Married to the person that lost the argument. So that would mean you don't gently and lovingly correct. Doesn't mean you don't point them to Christ if they're being, being crazy or whatever. But the point is, is when you're in a place of difficulty and conflict and doing what you said where you're both just button heads, man, as the Christ figure, you've got to wade into that and go, man, I'm going to, I'm on, I'm, I'm going to take it on the chin, even though I might not be wrong here. And so what keeps us from doing that? It's pride. Get rid of your pride. Jesus did.

[B]

So what does loving your wife like Christ loved the church. What does that look like real, practically speaking? And maybe it's different for every marriage, but for the, the husband listening, who he's like, I want to do this, but I need some, I need some homework.

[D]

Well, I mean, Pastor Matt did it go first sacrifice. And just like the way I would say lead spiritually for sure, fundamentally take responsibility for everything in your household, period. You are the responsible one. So I don't know who came up with the phrase, well, the husband's the spiritual leader. Somebody and some chick and a Beth Moore Bible study decided to make up a new word that's not in the Bible to kind of give a tip of the hat to what it says, but not with the full weight of it, you know. So there's a bunch of girls at our church and they know the Bible way better than a husband does because he's got to go to work 80 hours a week and she gets to Stay home. And she's in four Bible studies. Cool, that. But if he is. If he is provider, protector, prophet, priest and servant, king, he's killing it, you know? And so very, very practically one, I've already said it. Learn to take care of her physically, spiritually, emotionally, relationally, the way you've learned to take care of your own body. You got to study her, okay? Like you said, you got to go after her heart. I do think it's important. Important in the robust dialogue. Conversations, are we talking about facts or are we talking about feelings? And to communicate those things are very important. Because if you. If she's talking about feelings and you're talking about facts, it's not going to go good as a joke. I always use the example. If your wife says, I feel fat feeling, and you respond, well, don't eat so much fact. That is actually true. You have to live in a calorie deficit in order to not gain weight. All right? But that ain't what we're talking about right now. So if you can. And then Rebecca Maxwell will say, and sometimes you gotta set the table. Like, she wants to talk about what she feels about the future, and you're talking about the finances of can we do this or not? And so Rebecca, I've learned she will say, sometimes you gotta set the table and see what discussion are we having a budget discussion or like a hopes and dream? These aren't the same thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

So just the other day, Gretchen says something. I'm always careful. I don't want to, like, put all her stuff on blast out here. She had a feeling. That sounds like a whisper of the enemy to me. That from my vantage point, does not line up with reality.

[B]

Okay.

[D]

It would be as if she said. She didn't say this, but it would be as if she said I'm ugly. Well, act categorically, that's untrue. You know, unless we lived in some kind of tribe and society where hot people were ugly or. You know what I mean? But just. All right, but that's. Obviously, she was talking about another feeling about significance. And I. Everything in me wanted to give her the facts, you know, And I sat on it for a minute. And then last night I was like, hey, let's talk about this. Would it be helpful at all if I made an argument why. About why that's in actuality not true. And then I. I just. I just tried to ask heart questions, you know what I mean? And on one of the rare occasion occasions, I got it, you know, because I was just Digging in there, just chasing her heart. That's why. Another very, very, very practical way, if you. If you're. If you don't feel like you're being a good leader. Husbands, step one, pray out loud over your wife every day. It's not hard. You just say, and I know this sounds like a joke, and it's. It's comical, but it's just true. You just say, how can I pray for you? She's going to say words. Listen to those words, and then. And don't correct them, and don't tell her how she should feel. And just. Okay. And then you just say, hold her hand and say, dear God. And honestly, boys, if you just repeat it verbatim and then say amen with no commentary, when y' all open your eyes, she's gonna be crying, and then you're gonna be like, oh, God, what I do wrong? You didn't do anything wrong. You're killing it, Hercules. Just do it. And it's. It's actually one of the few ways we can slay the dragons these days. You know what I mean? We don't have to stand out there in the range and fight the bears to protect our homestead, you know, but there's some freaking demons trying to kill, steal, and destroy your wife and kids, so you better go to war on her behalf in prayer. That is one of the most practical ways. And I'm telling you, man, that's why, by the way, I would highly discourage anybody from praying with somebody of the opposite sex, because, dude, some stuff starts happening in the heavenlies and in the heart that is supernatural.

[C]

That's right.

[D]

There's connections that begin to be made there.

[E]

That's right.

[D]

And oftentimes, that's. Dr. Paul, one of our elders here, in one of the first questions he just asked me is, have you been praying out loud over Gretchen? You know, and what's crazy is I'm such an idiot, is sometimes I don't. Because I'm mad or, you know, it's the ninth inning and the Braves are at bat or whatever it is, and I think I'll do it in a minute. Yeah, so that. That's a very, very practical one that everybody can do.

[C]

And I want to disagree with. I never disagree with what you said. I'm going to disagree with one thing you said. It ain't hard. It actually is real hard. And what do I mean by that, man? I have found that there are very few things that I experience the attack of the enemy in. In. In a greater degree than when it Comes to praying with my wife, there is something about it spot on. I pray for anybody and I don't think twice about it. But there's something about me praying for my wife that I feel this incredible opposition. Would you, would you, I mean, experience the same thing? And so it's a battle to do it. And, and so, yeah, I would just say one, it's not easy. It's not been easy for me. And I think what that tells us is there's a lot of power there, you know, for us to do it. For me, it goes, it really did go back to the love languages thing. And I know we've heard that stuff a thousand times, but for me that was, that was paradigm shifting. And when I do, when I do marriage counseling, which I'm horrible at, but the, you know, once a year I do it kind of a thing. You know, one of the things I find more often than not is that the husband is loving his wife, but not in a way that she receives it.

[D]

Correct.

[C]

And you know, when I was first married, you know, I went and got my wife flowers, you know, and, and problem is my wife's not a gifts person. She appreciated the flowers, but, you know, that wasn't the way that she really felt loved. And so I learning how does your wife receive love? What can you do where it happens? You're like, wife really does feel loved and pursued by that and then do that thing. You know, for my wife, it's words of affirmation and quality time. Those are her two things. Well, I'm an introvert, first of all. And so when I, when I spend all day talking and, and spending time with people, last thing I want to do is go home and, and sit down and have a face to face conversation of depth and meaning.

[D]

Right?

[C]

But last time I checked, I'm supposed to love my wife like Christ love the church. And so that's what I started doing, you know, and I talk more about, in the, more about that in the, in the sermon. But man, just real practically, husbands find the way that your wife receives love and you love her that way and.

[E]

She'S wired to receive like God made her that way, right? Like she has a wiring that's either it's service or words of affirmation or gifts or whatever. It took me a long time to figure out. I'm not a very good student obviously, but it took me a while to figure out. Christy really does appreciate it when I do the little things like laundry is a thing.

[C]

Is she an act of service?

[E]

Yeah, she she loves that. Like, you know, I've heard it said, and it's a horrible. It's not. It's. It's so horrible because it's like you're doing something to get something. But they've said intimacy starts in the kitchen, you know, the dishes. And I'm. But Christie loves it when the kitchen is clean. Same took me a long time to figure out.

[C]

And I don't know why this is.

[E]

Stupid on my behalf, but I do tend to work out some. And because we're in Florida and the humidity is 187% here, I sweat a lot. And so I go in the bathroom and all that stuff is kind of just in a pile. Christy shouldn't have to pick that up and schlep it to. You know what I mean? It's, like, nasty. So I didn't realize that for a while. I just didn't. I just did not think about it. So those things, figuring out how she. How she's wired to receive it, that's would be like me going to Turkey and trying to speak English. Those people are not. I mean, if they are born and raised there and they don't speak English, they're not wired to receive the communication I'm giving them. So I think us really studying our wives, trying to figure out how are they wired to receive the love I want to give them would be. Would be helpful.

[C]

It moves in.

[E]

I wish I'd have known that earlier.

[D]

People don't talk about this very much, but negotiations are a very, very central task of happily married people. And you're not trying to negotiate so you get what you want. You're trying to negotiate so that you.

[C]

Can love your spouse well.

[D]

But, like, if you play games, man, there's winners and losers. But if you're just like, when thing you need to do this when. When you're having a good day, when things are relatively on the upswing and you could just honestly say, this is what would be awesome. And this isn't that awesome in regards to intimacy and the way you talk to each other. Like, for instance, one time I just was like, babe, I'm just gonna tell you I need you to greet me better when I get home. Like, the dogs run to me, and you. Sometimes you don't even look up, and it kind of jacks me up for the whole day. You know what I mean? And she's like, are you serious?

[E]

That's the thing.

[D]

I was like, that's a thing. All right. Take you a second. I don't, you know, and she's like, okay, well, while we're on it, why do you fold your socks before you put them in the laundry? And I was like, so they'll stay together. She's like, it's terrible, because now I gotta go. Okay, well, I'll stop. Honestly, as silly as it is, I wasn't even thinking about it. I get them. They're folded, and I just do. And she's like, now. Then I wash them, and there's a little ball of wet. You know, it's whatever. But those little negotiations are very, very important. And. And the difference is, this is not a hostage negotiations. It's not. If you. Then I'll. But it's just. You're. You're just saying, hey, listen, I love you no matter what. Here are some desires that I have. You do with them what you want. But gin. Generally, when people love each other, they want to love and serve one another.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

So, like, Gretchen's not a gifts person at all. She actually, like, if I. If. If she gets flowers, it's kind of a negative.

[C]

She starts thinking about how much money you spend on the flower.

[D]

She's like, they're just gonna die. And then I have to clean them up. And she's not a sentimental person. Like, she. As she's reading a love note, she's pulling the trash can open. Like, it's like, you know, all right, but an acts of service, the other day, she had a bunch of stuff going on, and she had made taco soup. And a part of the reason she did it is because we were in the middle of saturated, and I was like, baby, it'll be perfect because I can just eat it for, like, the next five meals in a row. And it's so easy. Anyway, so I get home from church, and there's a big pot of it, and I make it, and it's messy everywhere. And then I cleaned up, you know, and honestly, I'm not a good cleaner upper, and it sometimes doesn't even occur to me. And. But anyway, I just put the stuff away, cleaned up. She came over like I had written her a love song. And if I'd actually written her a love song, she would have thought it had been kind of cheesy. It just wouldn't have done it. But cleaning up the taco soup. And so one of the things I do. She's totally an acts of service girl. And what I try to do every day, I can't just. Because sometimes I leave before everybody wakes up, and. And I get home, and everybody's already asleep. But I try every week to just think in my mind, okay, what is some act that I can do for her? Like, can I just fold the laundry? Can I just. You know, what is a thing? Because. And that's that negotiation. But you should do that. You should just lay it and say, hey, here's some things that are meaningful, not meaningful, you know?

[C]

Yeah, man. Let's just get real for a second. I. I think guys that have a wife with acts of service as a love language. I think y' all got off easy, man.

[D]

Oh, Lord, I really do, because that's the thing. I wish it was words of affirmation, because I love it. That's what I like.

[C]

You actually are amazing. He gets teared up every time he starts talking about Gretchen. It's really sweet, but, you know, for me, it's not hard for me to get up and do the dishes. That. That's something I can do pretty naturally. I remember I had a buddy, and I talk about this in the. In the sermon, but his wife was a. Was a, you know, an acts of service girl. He said, man, all I got to do is get up after dinner and do the dishes, and it's guaranteed sex every time. And so I, like, I can do that. And so next. Next dinner, you know, she stands up to do this is. And I'm like, sit down, baby. I got this. And I do the dishes cleaned up. I even wiped down the, you know, like, the counters and everything. And she looked at me. She goes, hey, thank you so much for doing that. And then walks off. I'm like, what the crap?

[D]

And so thought I had the combination.

[C]

Not a formula, you know, Billy. I think it was Billy Graham. Maybe it's Charles Spurgeon. I can't remember. He said, marriage is the anvil that God puts a man on and beats the heck out of it.

[D]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

And what I have found, and it's not always true, but that God will often pair you with somebody in the area that their love is the area of your weakness in order to sanctify you so that you look more like Jesus. Amen.

[E]

Amen.

[D]

Yeah. And you got to prioritize it. One of the things I figured out, because we travel a lot, and Gretchen would always get stressed as we were coming home because the house wouldn't be as clean. We also have teenage children, and I could see her not enjoying where we are for the last two days because she can. She knows what she's coming home to. So I just paid a person every time she leaves there's somebody that comes to my house and cleans that junk. This girl, y' all know her, folds the toilet paper into a little thing. Like, we're at a hotel at my house. Okay.

[C]

Oh, man.

[D]

Bro, I would. I. I don't care what it cost. Like, that has been a wise investment just for my wife's heart.

[E]

And.

[D]

And here's where I was wrong. For years, I was. I was like, okay, you know, it's just. That's so superficial. Why should that matter? People should matter. And so instead of fighting against it, that's it. I was like, well, that's dumb. You know, I'm just gonna go with it and just. And just try to bless her that way.

[B]

And you probably end up getting reward out of it too, because then she's enjoying the last two days of the trip. Like, it's all.

[D]

Everything connected.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Just everything's better.

[B]

But I love you said I noticed she wasn't. So that's the first step is what you've been talking about being a student of your wife.

[D]

Right.

[B]

You don't just wake up one day and have this vision that I need to get the house cleaned because that's gonna make my wife enjoy vacation. You have to, over time, notice the things about her, the trends, and connect the dots. I mean, it takes a little bit of.

[D]

You know what? It dawned on me. I was sitting in a deer stand, and I run. I run cameras, I run food, I plant food plots, I check the weather, I look at the barometric pressure. I keep notes on last year to see what I saw when they were moving.

[C]

Sliding your gun, bro.

[D]

Like, I do some serious homework to shoot a deer that most people run over in a car. Okay, so, like, I'm into this and then just assume I'm going to get it right at home. And. And again, what really hit me is, is the way Peter says, live with your wives as unto knowledge. Like, you become a student of her and learn to meet her wants and needs like you did your own. Like you've learned to love your own body.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

And so, you know, I'm trying to put in the effort that way.

[C]

And that is the secret. You know, you said something earlier, one of us did, said, it gets better with time. And all. All three of us were said, yeah, that's right, it does. Why it get better with time? Because over a 30 year period, the more and more you do this and the more, the more she does that to you. You wake up one day and you're both doing dozens of things that over the years, you've learned to love the other person that way. You wake up one day, you got a great marriage. And so that's the hope for anybody out there that's listening to this that's got a difficult marriage. If you both have the Holy Spirit, there is hope for your future. Man, men, start loving your wife like Christ loved the church. You said something brilliant the other day. You or not the other day in this conversation that you just breezed past. It's like old man wisdom you just dropped. And I don't know if anybody paid attention to it, but you. You're asking your wife questions about her heart.

[D]

That's it.

[C]

And so instead of just speaking all the time, ask her questions. If you don't know what your wife's love language is, if you don't know what ministers are her, ask her, sit down and say, baby, what could I do that would make you feel loved? And then shut your mouth and let her talk. What am I doing that's making you not feel loved? Shut your mouth, let her talk, and don't.

[B]

Don't talk back. That's good advice for even men. Dating a single girl and friend that we all know, she's incredible. And she just went on a date with what we thought. We were like, this makes so much sense. And she wasn't into it. We're like, why aren't you into it? She said, we sat there for hours. He didn't ask me one question about my heart, my life, my dude.

[C]

Stupid.

[D]

Yeah. What a knuckle.

[B]

And on paper, it makes so much.

[D]

You know, he just hadn't been around an older guy. He needs to be around a dude.

[B]

All right, last question. So be a godly husband inside of our Stand Firm and Act Like Men series. In closing thoughts on why this topic of being a godly husband, why is it so critical to the overall vision of calling men to stand firm and act like men?

[D]

Peter says, if you don't love your wife. Right. God's not answering your prayers is. And I don't care how big and tough you are and how much money you make and how many people you preach to or whatever your measure of success is. Man, if God ain't answer your prayers, you're toast, bro.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

And so all of this Christian walk begins in the home. And marriage is the primary picture to this world.

[C]

That's it.

[D]

Of Christ's love and sacrifice for his bride. So if we ain't getting that right, then it's just a exercise in futility.

[C]

Yeah, that's Exactly. What I was going to say is. Is. Is the importance of this is found in what marriage represents. You know, Paul is going to drop a theological nuclear bomb on us at the end of this. And he said, this mystery is profound. I'm saying that this is a picture of Christ in the church. Why is marriage so important? Why is it so important that men love their wives like Christ loved the church, that wives follow their husbands as he follows Jesus? It's because it's a living, breathing picture of the gospel, your marriage. Matter of fact, the primary purpose of our marriages is to display Christ's love for the church and man. That ought to mean something to us.

[E]

One of the things the Lord has allowed me in the last decade or so is I've officiated a bunch of weddings, and I love doing it, and I've done it for family and friends and whatever, but it never ceases to amaze me. And you stand up there and the music starts, and you're standing there with the groom, and maybe his knees are a little shaky and he's a little nervous, and everybody processes in. And it's this, the beginning. And everybody is waiting for one thing. They're waiting for her to turn the corner with whoever's going to present her, usually her father. And she's this. This. I've never seen an ugly bride in my life. I've never seen an ugly bride. I don't know that they exist. I mean. And they turn the corner and it's this. You see her, and then you kind of catch the groom and he's starting to tear up or shake, and his lip quivers and. And the thing that's happening in that moment is she is coming from out there, and she's coming up to him, she's going to take his hand, and she's saying in her heart, the covenant that she's making is, I am bringing all that I have and I am giving all of me to all of you without reservation. Not because of what I get out of this, but because I want to give me to you before the Lord. And I'm reminded of that whenever I see her turn the corner. And the Lord has. On little moments in our lives, the Lord has shown me glimpses where she does that every day. It's not one and done. Christy trusts me with her heart every day.

[D]

And I.

[E]

Even in some. And it. And that's like a sledgehammer to my pride. Because my wife, who's the most precious human being on planet Earth, and my best friend every day when she wakes up, she is saying, I'm trusting all of me to all of you. And I think if I can stay in the place where my heart sees that man, I love her so much better. And it's not hard. It's not a. It's not a negotiation. It's not a competition. It's not, what am I getting out of this? It's like, oh, my goodness. Really? You're.

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

Okay. All I want to do is love you back.

[B]

So, so good. Well, thank you for this conversation. I know it's stirred my affections and appreciation for my own husband. And I know it's going to help a lot of husbands and wives and single people out there as we all continue to pursue what you're saying. This example to the rest of the world. Like, can you imagine? I want people who don't know the Lord to see Wes and I's marriage and say, wait, that's a taste of what it's like to be in a relationship with Jesus. And I mean, what a gift that we would get to walk in that. So thank you, Pastor Debbie. Will you pray for us?

[D]

I'd love to. Your father in heaven, may we love because you first love us in Jesus name.

[E]

Amen.

[B]

Amen.

[D]

Thank you for listening to the podcast. The end. You nailed it.

[A]

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