The Power of the Resurrection Changes Everything - Matthew S3E3

Summary

Podcast Summary:

Deepen with Pastor Joby Martin
Episode: The Power of the Resurrection Changes Everything – Matthew S3E3
Air Date: April 6, 2026
Host: Pastor Joby Martin, with teaching pastors from The Church of Eleven22

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Episode Overview

This engaging Easter episode explores the transformative power of the resurrection, centering on Matthew’s gospel and the story of Jesus healing the paralyzed man. The pastors discuss how the reality of the resurrection reshapes all of Christian life, every sermon, and our everyday faith – making clear that the empty tomb changes everything. Through theological discussion, pastoral insight, and personal storytelling, the conversation delves into salvation, spiritual community, faith, the supernatural, and the foundation of grace alone.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Easter: The Lens of All Preaching

• Pastor Joby describes how every message, not just Easter, should be preached through the lens of the resurrected Christ:

  “As a good gospel preacher, everything we see is from the perspective of a resurrected Christ. There should never be a non-Easter sermon. Old Testament, New Testament, it doesn’t matter.” (01:34)

2. The Healing of the Paralytic and the Gospel

• The discussion focuses on Matthew’s account of the paralyzed man (and Mark’s expanded detail of friends breaking through the roof):
  • The “mat carriers” show how faith is demonstrated by determined action (carrying their friend to Jesus).
  • The question, “Is it easier to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven’ or ‘Get up and walk’?” opens the door to a deeper conversation about the purpose and sufficiency of Jesus’ forgiveness.

  “This guy gets salvation before he gets healing. What he needed was salvation. It was infinitely more important than his legs to work.” (06:29–06:50)

3. Spiritual Death and Desperation

• Parallel between physical and spiritual states:

  “Even though we’re breathing with air in our lungs… the Bible would say we’re still spiritually dead... Jesus certainly saves us to resurrected eternal life, but that resurrected life invades now.” (03:39–04:31)

• The conversation moves from the state of the paralytic to the universal human need for Jesus, likening spiritual lostness to physical helplessness.

  “If you don’t realize you’re paralyzed on a mat, you don’t need a healer… I can’t help you… everyone feels that desperate situation.” (04:31–06:29)

4. Conviction of Sin and the Work of the Spirit

• The pastors emphasize that conviction is the Spirit’s work, not something any preacher or person can force.

  “I cannot convict of sin – only the Spirit of God does.” (04:31–04:50)

5. God’s Sovereignty, Hardened Hearts, and Salvation

• The team addresses hard theological questions such as God hardening Pharaoh’s heart (Drawing from the Exodus and the Passion Week narratives).
• Teaching moment with Pastor’s children:

  “We had a really good conversation about how inherently everybody’s heart is hard… and by God’s grace, he has softened our hearts to receive the good news of the gospel.” (12:33–13:20)

• Emphasis: God is in control, and salvation is ultimately his work; our responsibility is to plead, pray, and share.

6. Supernatural vs. Metaphysical Explanations

• Frustration at attempts to “explain away” miracles; affirming that Jesus’ works (incarnation, resurrection, knowledge of thoughts) are all supernatural acts, not to be reduced to human reasoning:

  “To try to over-explain the supernatural… it can never be anything but supernatural.” (25:04–25:06)

7. Community and the Importance of ‘Mat Carriers’

• Cultivating meaningful spiritual relationships is essential:

  “Isolation is a primary tool of the enemy to take you out… If you haven’t had a spiritual conversation lately, you’re not doing it right.” (29:04–31:27)

• True spiritual friendships (“mat carriers”) form through active participation in a local church and service, not by accident or shallow encounters.
• Practical challenge: Get involved in small groups, serve, and nurture deep accountability among trusted confidants.

  “You have enough time to do whatever you want to do, period. It’s just not important to you… My life is better with Christ if I have more time with those guys, and they ask me questions that very few people do.” (31:41–33:19)

8. Family as the Only Lens for Understanding God

• Salvation is not just forgiveness; it’s adoption:

  “Family is not a way to understand God. It is the only way. He doesn’t only say your sins are forgiven… he adopts you into the family of God.” (39:04–39:59)

• Jesus’ words to the paralytic (“Take heart, my son. Your sins are forgiven.”) underline the centrality of familial identity in the gospel (36:14–41:43).

9. Grace Alone vs. Religious Earning

• Contrast between grace-fueled obedience and legalistic, obligatory behaviors.

  “The gospel is not anti-effort, it’s anti-earning. Obligatory behavior is earning, gospel-driven effort is that you are compelled by the love of Christ.” (41:57)

• Clear critique of any teaching (Catholic or otherwise) that adds works to the sufficiency of Christ for salvation:

  “It is not the Eucharist that saves you… All of these things are a false doctrine. It’s very, very scary. But according to the Scripture, salvation is by grace through faith in Christ alone.” (43:47–45:57)

10. The Resurrection: Not Just a Spiritual Renewal, But a New Creation

• Citing Tim Keller, the pastors remind that the Christian hope is not mere comfort beyond the grave but the full, physical renewal of all things.

  “If Jesus actually came out of the tomb… then no matter what you’re going through… it’s going to be okay because we don’t only believe in a resurrected soul. We believe in a resurrected heaven and earth. He’s going to make all things new.” (56:22–57:31)

11. Challenging the Easy Gospel

• Jesus’ miracles confirm his authority and identity beyond what people want or expect:

  “He is blatantly telling the scribes, I’m the one that Daniel was talking about…” (52:52–54:14)

12. The Together 22 Challenge

• 22 days of focused, intentional practices around loving God with heart, mind, soul, and strength.

  “This is not to earn your salvation. This is… But James 4:8 says, ‘Draw near to Me and I will draw near to you.’” (61:45–64:24)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Preaching with an Easter Perspective:

  “There should never be a non-Easter sermon.” – Pastor Joby (01:34)

• On Spiritual Community:

  “The devil prowls around like a roaring lion… and Christian married men are the worst because we settle for buddies. We have too many just surface level [relationships]... if you haven't had a spiritual conversation lately, you're not doing it right.” (30:29–31:27)

• On Salvation’s Dual Nature:

  “The full gospel doesn't merely forgive you of your sins… it also adopts you into the family of God.” (39:38–39:59)

• On Grace:

  “The gospel is not anti-effort, it's anti-earning.” (41:57)

• On the Resurrection's Cosmic Scope:

  “We don’t only believe in a resurrected soul. We believe in a resurrected heaven and earth. He’s going to make all things new.” – Citing Tim Keller (56:22–57:31)

• On God’s Sovereign Ways:

  “God’s ways are always better than our ways… If they got what they want, then the gospel doesn’t go like it goes.” (59:01–59:45)

• On the Identity God Gives:

  “God’s label on you is the one that matters. If you’re a Christian, the biggest thing in your life is Jesus looked at you and called you son or daughter and his blood tells a better story.” (40:38–41:43)

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Segment Timestamps

• Opening & Easter Call-and-Response: 00:17–01:08
• Preaching Every Sermon Through the Empty Tomb: 01:12–02:50
• Salvation vs. Healing, Lame Man’s Story: 02:55–07:27
• Holy Spirit’s Role in Conviction: 03:39–04:50
• Desperation Stories & Jesus’ Personal Work: 04:31–06:50
• Passion Service & Importance of Worship Arts: 07:27–11:13
• Kids’ Questions about Pharaoh’s Heart & God’s Sovereignty: 11:31–15:27
• Why People Betray Jesus & Crowd Dynamics: 17:39–21:08
• Family as Framework for Salvation: 39:04–41:43
• Mat Carrier Community Challenge: 28:29–33:47
• Supernatural Reality vs. Metaphysical Explanation: 25:04–27:24
• Grace Alone vs. Works-Based Religion: 43:45–45:57
• The Ultimate Hope in Jesus’ Resurrection: 56:22–57:31
• The "Together 22" Challenge: 61:45–64:24
• Closing Reflections & Prayer: 65:04–66:06

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Final Encouragement & Call to Action

• Join the Together 22 Challenge: Engage in 22 days of practical devotion focused on loving God in every aspect of life.
• Get involved in authentic community—find your “mat carriers” through serving and genuine church participation.
• Rest in grace: Let go of performance and rest in the identity Jesus gives: forgiven child, beloved son or daughter.
• Remember: Everything changes because of the resurrection—your life, your worship, your relationships, and your hope for the world.

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“God tore off the roof of time and space and gravity and you were born as a baby in a manger who came to die on a cross and be raised from the grave that you would earn the authority given to you by the Father to look at us in the face and say, son, your sins are forgiven. Amen.” – Pastor Joby (65:10)

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For further engagement:

• Watch or participate in the Passion service online.
• Sign up for Together 22 by texting TOGETHER to 441122.

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Episode tone: Warm, passionate, practical, biblically anchored, sometimes funny, always centered on grace and Jesus’ finished work.

Transcript

[Pastor Joby Martin]

Welcome to Deepen with Pastor Joby Martin. The Church of 1122 is a movement for all people to discover and deepen a relationship with Jesus Christ. And we're praying this message helps you deepen your relationship with him. Now let's dive in.

[Host or Moderator]

Happy Easter, gentlemen. Pastors.

[Pastor or Teaching Pastor]

He is risen indeed.

He is risen indeed.

[Host or Moderator]

Well, it's a celebration.

[Pastor or Teaching Pastor]

Where did that come from?

[Host or Moderator]

He has risen indeed. I don't know the answer to that.

[Pastor or Teaching Pastor]

All right.

[Host or Moderator]

It's a call and response. I just don't know how old it is. I think it's. Maybe it's in the prayer book. I could look it up.

[Pastor or Teaching Pastor]

But isn't it in the end of one of the gospels or close to it?

[Host or Moderator]

Yes.

[Pastor or Teaching Pastor]

You would bring the Bible into this

conversation, which four bigs.

[Host or Moderator]

But you're asking how did it become a. A thing people say?

[Pastor or Teaching Pastor]

Right, right.

[Host or Moderator]

Yeah, it must be. It must be in a liturgy somewhere. We're just all not liturgically educated.

[Pastor or Teaching Pastor]

Okay.

[Host or Moderator]

But he has risen, just as he said, I think is what the. One of the angels says.

[Pastor or Teaching Pastor]

Okay.

[Host or Moderator]

So Pastor Joby, we. You mentioned that this is a different kind of sermon because as it. As our journey through Matthew is progressing, we weren't at the section where Jesus the empty tomb happened. So talk about. Did you think about ever was you're planning this. Maybe I should skip ahead or. Or what. What was that? Preparation? Life.

[Pastor or Teaching Pastor]

No, as a good gospel post resurrection ascension of Jesus, every sermon you see is through the lens of the empty tomb. When Jesus. When Jes. When Brit is giving critique kind of of our staff in staff meetings, he talks about. We all look through a straw. He's talking about leadership and like if you're the expert of it, you look through the straw of it and you see it real good. But you. There's so many things you don't see around it, yada yada. But as a good gospel preacher, everything we see is from the perspective of a resurrected Christ. So there should not be ever be a non Easter sermon. Old Testament, New Testament, it doesn't matter. But we're walking through the Gospel of Matthew and I did think it lined up pretty good though with especially Mark's account of what Matthew's talking about with four people carrying their friend that doesn't know Jesus to Jesus to be healed, doing whatever it takes, full rooms. Full rooms at Easter, tearing off the roof. But it also, I mean the one question. I'm sure we'll get there because you ask good questions. The Is it easier to say get up and walk or forgiveness of Sins totally lended.

[Host or Moderator]

Yes.

[Pastor or Teaching Pastor]

An opportunity for me to completely lay out the gospel.

[Host or Moderator]

Yeah. Who is this? Who is this Jesus?

[Pastor or Teaching Pastor]

Right.

It's like which is my favorite, honestly, my favorite way to preach is when I can just from memory run huge chunks of texts and kind of the meta narrative and then just weave a couple of the things that I'm more familiar with. And you know, and because I can just do it without reading or and I can just explain it like I was explaining to you how a spread offense works. I could just say it, you know, kind of big picture and then give a couple of details. And so I sort of see people really connecting. When I like when I do that part. The what's easier to say? And I mean I start all the way from the incarnation to the resurrection and return.

I think the implication in it is certainly fitting in, in the sense of the resurrected life that even as though we're breathing with air in our lungs and with cognitive abilities and science would say you're alive right now. The Bible would say we're still spiritually dead.

Correct.

And the lame person that is being brought has been living in a cultural death. Has been. Is spiritually dead. Has his experience of biologically being alive has been filled with nothing but the consequences of death result of the cosmic fall. Right. And so Jesus certainly saves us to the resurrected eternal life. But as we talk about all the time that resurrected life invades now in our biological life.

You know what I'm more convinced of than ever in my evangelism, Whether it's on stage in front of a bunch of people or my one on one conversations which are mostly happening in the gym right now in some airplanes like this guy. Let's use this guy. Paralytic. Nobody had to convince him he was paralyzed. And I can't convince somebody they're a sinner. I think it's okay to, to say one of the things I'll say is forget the law of God for a second, bro. You can't keep your own promises, right? So surely you haven't lived up to God's law. You can't keep your own law. You have your own ten commandments and you can't keep those. Right? So I, I will say that. But I can't convince. I cannot convict of sin. I do not have the ability to convict of sin. Only the spirit of God does. And it's very much tied to our series in Matthew. Why I keep going back to blessed are the pure. And I mean blessed. Blessed are the poor in spirit. Cuz like if you're not there, you can't be. You can't get to the meek thing. You'll never mourn your sinful situation. You'll never get to the place where you realize you got to turn over the reigns of your life and you'll never be filled with his righteousness. So I almost feel like this great freedom like I don't know, it's the weirdest thing, my evangelism as I'm talking to somebody. If you don't realize you're paralyzed on a mat, you don't need a healer, bro. I can't help you. You don't know your loss. Why would I give you a map? It's not going to do you any good. I mean, I can plant seeds for the future, but so I did. I spent almost no time convincing people they were sinners. But I started with the there been a desperate situation and everybody got sucked in. And honestly all those were personal things. Every one of them. Not my marriage I was actually talking about. I was. I used to pray that God would keep my parents marriage together and I couldn't. You know what I mean? I've had friends bail on me. I've had nothing major but like, you know, a kid gets sick and you got to rush to the hospital do all your worst nightmares are coming true. You know what I mean? So it doesn't take long and everybody feels that desperate situation. And then I wanted to loop back around because this guy gets he. He gets salvation before he gets healing. But what he needed was salvation. It was infinitely more important than his legs to work.

[Host or Moderator]

Yeah.

[Pastor or Teaching Pastor]

And so because I actually I got some advice from Brit on It's so great to have so many good pastors here. If I ever get a little stuck because I've taught this so many times. I've got so many good desperation stories that are funny and stuff and like good openers, but I kind of run out of them. So anyway. But what if the desperate moment is you right now and you realize it like I'm being lowered through the roof. I'm coming eye to ball to eyeball with a resurrected Christ, not a set of teachings from 2000 years ago and you realize this is it. I need to hear son, your son's. Your sins are forgiven. So that's where we went.

My kids are in Can I are in various environments right now in this Passion week. Right. So they're hearing all different parts of it and speaking about.

Dude, the Passion service. Holy moly. You spearhead that thing. I know you're Going to give credit to everybody else because you're a good leader and that's what good leaders do. But, dude, way to go.

Yeah. Praise God.

Thank you, bro. That thing. There's this Hollywood actor that I'm. That I talk to that is an 1120 tour. I need to, I need. I haven't shown you the text yet, dude. He was like, can I just give you my point of view as a. He's. He's filming a movie in la. He's gonna listen to this. And, and he was like, can I. Let me just use Hollywood language real quick about the performances, about the people on stage doing the thing. From the mirror people to 1A to you, bro. He is like, I am blown away. Like, we can't get. Sometimes we can't get people out here to do that thing. And he was like, you could tell there were lines, but they owned them. They believed them, they were honest. They let it go. He was talking specifically about you at the end. They were just screaming at the cross. You know, dude, it was, it was when I used to dream about doxological excellence because I have this. I'm not an artsy person at all, so I'm the worst person to like, try to spearhead this stuff. But I used to think the person that should run our, our worship services, probably it'd be better if they were like, if they worked at Broadway for a while or something and knew that the audience we're shooting for is the Lord. And in, in part of the heyday of the church, we were talking about this because he's a guy from Italy. The best art used to come out of the church. And now Christian art is kind of. I mean, it's kind of making a comeback now, you know, because people are investing some real talent and money into it. But for the longest time it. Christian art just meant cheesy, like not as good as. But it used to be the pinnacle of. Of excellence, for God's glory sake. And I felt like that thing was that it, it took me to places as, as soon as you could try to get out of your head, like, how are we doing that? You know, Because I can't not think that because I work here. And, and, and then the thing that, the thing that really overwhelmed me was the, the amount I came to the 7:22 service at, at San Pablo. Me and Gretchen and Reagan came and bro, at the end, there's no invitation. There's just words on a screen says altars are open. And bro, we had to get up so. Because People were, like, using our front row as the altar, too. I mean, I'm talking however many people fit down there. Hundreds of people just come to get on their face before the crucified Christ. That's a thing, dude. So way to go.

Yeah, thank you.

Way to go.

Well, thanks for making the room for us to be able to put energy

into it that way, you know, it's incredible. I also think it will raise the lid on our regular weekend services because of how much our creative team got to flex and push and do things that are hard, you know what I mean? Like technically hard in that matter. So way to go, man. Way to lead that thing. And it's also really nice on a Tuesday. I had preached that morning at Providence. I preached the day before at one of our outposts, Shout out to Bell Oaks. So it was really nice on a Tuesday to just attend a worship experience and then cry all the way home. But way to go. So I interrupted you. I'm sorry. Your daughters have been in lots of environments. Passion.

[Host or Moderator]

Yeah.

[Pastor or Teaching Pastor]

And you were talking specifically about the. You can't convict people of sin.

Right.

The Holy Spirit's the only one that can do that. And my daughters asked me an interesting question last night on the way home from Students Shout out to our student ministry team for doing a good job discipling big students. Praise God.

Forever indebted.

My daughter's asked me an interest question. They said, all right, dad, God. It clearly says that God hardened Pharaoh's heart.

[Host or Moderator]

Oh, here we go.

[Pastor or Teaching Pastor]

Right?

Great question.

And my daughters are 15 and 12. Right. So this praise for all the people who are involved in discipling them. These are really good questions for 15, 12 year olds to ask. And so the Bible clearly says God hardened Pharaoh's heart. And their question was two part. But my youngest was like, okay, in the Triumphal entry, is that what happened from the tribal entry to the crucifixion in order to accomplish the redemptive purposes of God? She may not have used all those words, but that was her question. Because Jesus had to die in order to fulfill God's plan. From the Triumphal Institute and for entry to the crucify him to Barabbas.

Correct.

Is that what happened? And we had a really good conversation about how inherently everybody's heart is hard and that all of us were born with a hard heart toward God. And by God's grace, he has softened our hearts to receive the good news of the gospel. And that is his work and his work alone. We praise God for that and that even Though everybody's heart is hardened specific to Pharaoh's example, because I don't want to get outside of Scripture because that's the place where Scripture says it, that God uniquely hardened Pharaoh's heart specifically to Moses's warning and Moses's call in that specific situation in order to bring about the Exodus over time. What, what you were saying made me think about it is that there are two ways to look at that. There's one way to look at it in the sense of, and my opinion is on the personal level, to look at that and to struggle. The struggle is I actually believe delusionally that I'm in control of anything. And this idea that I'm not in control of the condition of my heart really or anybody else's heart really bothers me and therefore it nags on my conscience in a funny way, and it really was nagging on, is my sense of control. Okay, there's another way that I think is the really good gospel way to look at it, which is what you just said, which is when I realize that it is salvation completely belongs to the Lord, that it's a breath of fresh air, and that I don't know exactly how it works from the triumphal entry to Barabbas. Like I can speculate as to what was happening there, but on the cosmic, like supernatural level, I don't know exactly how it works. However, I do know God is in control. And while part of it is heartbreaking, part of it is also liberating because God is going to always do what he has to do to bring about his redemptive plan, which is ultimately going to be the highest good that could possibly ever be done. You know what I mean? Now I'm trying to explain that to a 15 and 12 year old in, in the truck.

Those are the best people to explain it to.

It was awesome.

Because then you can't just borrow theological terminology that we stole from Piper and MacArthur and you know, all the smart people, that means we don't, because then we just use those terms and you don't have to actually understand it. So the, the best thing, if you can explain this to a 12 year old, then you really got to have your head around it. One of the things that if I could talk to your kids I would want to point them to is the reality, though multiple times before the Bible says that Pharaoh's heart was hardened by God. It says that Pharaoh hardened his own heart.

That's right, multiple.

I want to say seven, but that might just be guessing. So God's Desire is that all would be saved. And there are multiple times where God presents himself and all that we need for salvation, and we say no, and we say no, and we say no. And for everybody, at some point, there are no more opportunities. When you die, it's over, man. Your heart is hard. Forever and ever and ever. It's over because you hardened your heart. And then God. God gives you exactly from our perspective. Because there's anytime you talk about Salv. So you're going to end up in Romans 8, 9 and 10, the moment you talk about God's role in salvation. I don't care where you start. The bottom of the barrel where all of this live. Every trail leads to Romans chapter nine. And it says, who is the clay to say to the potter, hey, you didn't make me right? And so anytime somebody ask me this question, my mind goes, what's that clay? So that's where it goes. And then Paul has the same struggle in Romans 10. He's praying for his Jewish brothers and sisters that have, with hardened hearts have not submitted and surrendered to God. And he doesn't feel better than them. He's. His heart's breaking for them. And he's like, God, can I change places? Like, I'll go to hell. And you, you give my brother salvation, please. But. And that's rooted. The foundation has to be God or the scaffolding, the building, the skyscraper of God's grace has nothing to stand on. But those are the right questions because probably what's. What's typically at behind that question in the, in the 12 and 15 y Old Believer is they're wondering why their friends won't surrender to Christ and they can't make them. And they're real frustrated. And they should be like, Paul is. Paul felt the same way, man. And so that's a really good place. The heart of an evangelist is I want everybody to know. So I'm going to beg, I'm going to plead, I'm going to be an ambassador. I'm going to entreat, you know.

Yeah. What she was pointing at was, why would anybody act like they love Jesus only to betray him?

Because. Well, when I. Especially when I would teach this to students, the days of the week work out real good too. Because on Sunday you get together and wave palms and say, blessed is he, comes in the name of the Lord. And then Friday betray him. And then the life of the average high school kid is sitting in youth group on Sunday or my own life was that at the party on Friday night, I completely Betrayed him and my sin. Crucified him. And yet on Sunday, I was right there with the crowd, singing with my hands up. So I think the crowd. I. I don't think they were. They thought Jesus was going to come and give them what they wanted. It's actually what James says in James 4:1, what causes fights and quarrels among you, but your. Your quarrel is actually against God. So the attitude of the triumphal entry is they thought Jesus was come to serve them politically and powerfully. And then when he didn't, they were like, well, if you ain't giving us what we want, crucify him. Kill him. Dude, the most damning thing. I mean, pilot. I mean, Pilate does the same thing, bro. How about this? There's nobody there to testify on Jesus's behalf. And so God Almighty gives Pilate's wife a dream. And God's like, somebody's going to stick up for my boy. Somebody's going to say out loud, this man is innocent. This man is righteous. So she talks to her husband. I don't have anything to do with this righteous man I've been having. He's been terrorizing me in my dreams. And then what Pilate does is what so many people do. He doesn't. It looks like if I give him the benefit of the doubt, he doesn't really. He wants to be like, hey, man, let's let this guy go. Like, I got a trick back here. How about Barabbas? Take Barabbas. These people are so blinded because God didn't do what they wanted him to do, they're like, give us the guy that might kill us. That guy. It's the same attitude as the bad thief on the cross. If you are who you say you are, save yourself and us with you. The amount of people that have turned away from God because God did not give them what they wanted. That's who they are. The other thief on the cross makes no deal. He just says, can I get a favor? Like, he admits, hey, man, who are you talking to, bro? We are here because we deserve it. This man has done no thing wrong. Jesus, will you remember me this day when you go before your Father in heaven? Not if I do a few things right. Can I, like, can I earn this thing? It is. It is a total favor. And he gets in. And I'm telling you, I don't. Ain't a church person alive that thinks they're the bad thief on the cross. And almost every person. It's fine to get mad at God if you don't get what you want, that's fine. The Psalms are full of prayers where the psalmist, and David especially is like, what the heck? So bring it all to him. But to try to put him on trial for being God, that's what Job tries to do. And he says, gird up in your loins and take this like a man. And then for four chapters, he's just like, hey, man, I forgot when I was. Where were you? Where were you? Hey, where's the last lightning gonna strike? Because, oh, you don't know that. I mean, it's just like, the number of rhetorical questions there are. Are unbelievable.

So the amount of gospel in Job is just unbelievable. It really is. And you know, I didn't see it until much older in my life.

Right.

More time in the Word. But it's so rich.

Yeah, I got an Charles, and I've been working on an idea for the next. Next book, and I think it's going to be about. It's going to be. Start with last, the sermon on storms. It's going to be wrapped around the life of Jonah and how God used storms in his life. But then we're going to end with, you got two options. You can be like, Matthew 24, when it's all going to hell. People are going to curse one another, curse God, they're going to be loveless, they're going to be lovers of self. That's Matthew 24. That's one option. The other option, when it doesn't go your way, is Job. God gives and takes away. Blessed be the name of the Lord. So that's maybe in like three years.

Every Easter, I think about this, the like, time machine question. If you could, like, go back to any point in time. And of course I would want to go and see the angel sitting there by the tomb or, you know, the stone rolled away. I would actually want to, like, I. I've always wondered what was. What it actually was like in the tomb, like, as the spirit of God was bringing the body of Jesus back to life. I just, like, I would, like, I would want to be in there to see that happen. Be kind of awesome.

Well, There is a PhD guy. I want to say his name's Jeremiah Johnson. I think that's it. He was just on my friend Josh Howton's Live Free.

What a name, by the way.

I think that's his name. I could be wrong. Vinny, you can check that and put it in the show notes.

Show notes.

He thinks he knows how the Shroud of Torn was created based on physics of how much light and energy it would take to leave an image on a linen cloth like that. And he believes at the resurrection that that burial cloth was also a resurrection cloth and that Jesus passed through it just like he passed through walls and doors and all that stuff. And they. They've created some like 3D animation of that power would also roll that stone away and leave that mark. There is. There's something to it.

No doubt.

I don't personally need. One of my frustrations right now with all the commentaries that I read is all of the. Everybody tries to explain everything metaphysically instead of supernaturally. Like, almost every commentary I got a hold of was like, well, when Jesus says he knew what they were thinking, it was probably because he could see their facial expressions. And I'm like, or he's the God of the universe and he knows every thought. Like, why are we doing this about everything? Does that make sense?

Totally. So there's a guy you need to get to know.

I want.

I don't even know him. I want to get to know him. He's the theologian at Proverbs 31 with Lisa Turkhart.

Okay.

Joel Mutamali. Are you familiar with this guy?

[Host or Moderator]

I've heard the name.

[Pastor or Teaching Pastor]

Holy cow.

[Host or Moderator]

Rebecca Maxwell's talked about him. Said he's brilliant.

[Pastor or Teaching Pastor]

Wicked, wicked smart.

Yeah, We.

We got to get him in the.

Okay.

In the like tribe here.

Lisa, as you're listening to this, made the connection. Man text. Lisa.

He was. He's a Michael Heiser disciple.

Yeah.

Anyway, which. He was a Jacksonville guy before he died.

He was coming here before he died.

And he's wicked smart, too.

Wicked.

And he wrote a book, Mutamali. Joel wrote a book called the Unseen Battle. And I'm reading it. And that's how he starts the book. He goes, let me just recap for you what we believe, okay? And he goes through virgin birth, sinless life, right hand, son of God, outside of time. He just goes through. Just. And then he goes, which part? And it's like five sentences. He's like, which part of what you just read is not supernatural?

Right.

It's all supernatural.

Right.

And to try to over explain the supernatural right inside of time, light and gravity as we understand it. I'm not saying it's futile. It's not futile. It just can't. It can never be anything but supernatural. It's just always going to be that.

And a good scientist does not, cannot explain why, but they just explain what.

Yeah.

So I got no problem with the archaeologists that go and find the Place in the Red Sea that is more shallow and there's a shelf and it can make a lot of sense if wind blew from this direction and got, you know. Okay, cool, man, cool. I got no problem with all of the archaeologists that find the place where they think, hey man, this might be where. This might be Noah's Ark from this, you know, okay, neat. All right. But the why behind it is because God said it. Period, period. And if there's a fault line. Neat. You know, right now there's also, there's a bunch of geologists, non believing geologists that are saying there's a 7.3 on the Richter scale earthquake in about 33 AD in Israel. Well, oh, I know because I read about it in my Bible. So that's okay. If they're.

Did you know some dead people got up out of the graves and started walking around?

That's one me and you talk about sometimes. Like, what happened to those jokers that just got up?

Where'd they go?

They were a little bit too early, like, no, not yet. Oh, we thought this was it.

But I think that is even a, that even goes to a bigger point of like, where did they go? And what happened is you could chase that for a lifetime and have completely missed the point.

Correct, correct.

Which is why I think some of those things go unanswered so that you don't miss the point.

Yeah.

Does that make sense?

Yeah.

So anyway, they're not unanswered. We just don't know the answers yet.

[Host or Moderator]

We will. To go back to something you said, another thing that I really love about talking to a lot of people who might not know where we're coming from here is that you really do make it like, let me just, let me just tell you everything that you need to know to understand this. You know, you did that several times tonight, which I really thought was great, like explaining the four gospels and what makes them different. And here's what you know, because it sets up your point, but also it's like it really orients people to hear, to hear the message.

[Pastor or Teaching Pastor]

Well, the amount of church people that don't realize.

[Host or Moderator]

Yeah.

[Pastor or Teaching Pastor]

Who Matthew, Martin Luther, John were, who their audiences were, where their source material came from. And then one of the things as I was studying this, I never really paid attention to this. I just think this is the humanity of the scripture right here. In Matthew's account of the healing of the paralytic, there's no mention of the roof because Matthew was there. He's going to get called in the next chapter okay, so. But when Mark writes it, Mark's primary source is Peter. This happens at Peter's house. So wouldn't it be just like you, like, if I was telling the story about this, but it was at your house and your roof got torn open. You would lead with the. Let me tell you what happened to my roof. I mean, this is such. Of course Peter is going to make a big deal about how much it costs them for sure.

[Host or Moderator]

This is a huge story for our church. Like so much so that we have like a cultural, culturally embedded phrase that comes from this. This count. Matt Carriers.

[Pastor or Teaching Pastor]

Yeah.

[Host or Moderator]

So I loved the illustration of the shields because it helped paint that picture of how other people's faith impacts us. Because these friends come and it says Jesus sees their faith. You know, so how does that work? And you know. Well, answer that. Answer that one first.

[Pastor or Teaching Pastor]

Well, you can't overread what it says. So your faith, Vicky, I don't care how much you love me and pray for me and let me borrow your faith. Your faith won't save me. So the guy on the mat trusts Jesus. There's some exchange there that words.

[Host or Moderator]

He could have been included in the there 100%.

[Pastor or Teaching Pastor]

But it is clear that he sees the faith. And faith is acting as if you actually believe that Jesus is who he says he is and he keeps his promises. My favorite of this is in, in Acts 3, when, when Peter and John are going to the temple and the guy asks for alms and they say, silver and gold, have we known what we give, what we have, we give unto you. In the name of Jesus, rise up and walk. But breathe what happens? He doesn't walk until they reach down their hand and pick him up. The only reason you're going to reach down your hand is because Jesus told the apostles you can heal. And they believe it. They don't just think it, that it's true. They act like they think it's true. These guys are acting as if, if we can get you in the presence of the miracle worker, you might get healed. All right, so the failings thing, I actually learned this from Kyle. They would like in 300, they would line you up as families, man. They put family groups together, friends together, lifelong friends. So you weren't just fighting next to a guy that you just met in boot camp. And. And hopefully you've got enough character to not turn and run. That was your son, brother, Uncle, Granddad, dad. This. This is your blood. And the crazy thing is that the, the blood of Jesus that binds us is actually closer than Your family and the shield of faith mean this was a. This is a group thing. This is the guy next to me. One of these flaming darts just hit him in the foot and he took a knee because he can't stand up. So what we have to do, the Mac carriers have to then cover that man in the attacks of the enemy so that we can, well, Galatians bear one another's burdens that people might get restored. And I know I sound like a broken record on this thing, but isolation is a primary tool of the enemy to take you out. The devil prowls around like a roaring lion seeking someone to devour. And Christian married men are the worst because we settle for buddies. We have too many. Just surface level. Listen, you can't have these deep spiritual conversations with everybody. You, you know, it'd be exhausting. But if you haven't had a spiritual conversation lately, you better. Then you're not doing it right.

[Host or Moderator]

What do you think of the top excuses people have for. Let's just say they couldn't write the names down when you said it. And here's their. Oh, I just, you know, what's the top reasons people give?

[Pastor or Teaching Pastor]

I'm too busy. Here's the thing, man. You have enough time to do whatever you want to do, period. It's just not important to you that nobody will say that. And I get it. Dude, I'm bit. Listen, three of my mat carriers, Ben Williams, Charles Martin, Jeff Cop, and even Lars. Now, I had. Up till about two weeks ago, I had not been spending enough time with them. And I was talking to Denny on Built for More. So I just said it. Part of the reason I said it is because I know Jeff listens. And I hadn't been hanging. Cop lives two doors down, bro, and he got a new job. And I've been traveling like crazy. And I had not had a real conversation with him in a long time. And so I just set it on there for accountability sake. Because if you say it out loud, man, and people, you know, tens of thousands of people are going to hear this. And I know Cop was going to be one of them. My life is better with Christ if I'm. If I have more time with those guys and they ask me questions that very few people do because it's not a casual question to ask. And I have. I haven't just invited them to ask. I've deputized them. Asked me questions about my marriage, about my kids, about my pride. And they do. And I'm just telling you, I walk closer with Jesus the more time I spend with those men. And so, dude, it's so easy to be like, I'm fine. That's the. That's probably one of the biggest people. Like, I'm fine. But. But what happens when you ain't fine? Yeah. And you've never developed those conversations.

The short answer is, I don't know how to tell somebody how to get involved in those kind of relationships outside of the context of being very involved in a local church.

Well, that's it.

I just don't have any way to help you. So if you're moderately involved or marginally involved in the local church, I think you're going to have a hard time finding these relationships until you go all in on the local faith community. You're just. It's going to be impossible because chemistry can't be microwaved.

Correct.

And you're not going to have the same kind of chemistry with everybody who says, I'm a Christian. So you can't randomly just go pick four Christians and be like, these are my Mac carriers. You know what I mean? It takes, it takes time. It takes chemistry.

Correct. You know, and most dudes need to do some shoulder to shoulder stuff.

For sure.

The way we designed this whole thing, the, the reason we want you to get in disciple groups to serve and go on a mission trip, a major output of that is you develop mat carriers. Those things are actually a means to that end. Like, you start serving with somebody, man, there's some great people out there right now. They're cleaning up the worship center together to get ready. Right. And you get enough people rubbing shoulders, serving together to begin conversations. They begin a friendship. They meet beyond just the serving time. Or you're in a disciple group and there's 12 people in your disciple group, but there's three of them that you say, hey, can the three of us kind of go a little deeper on the personal stuff? We'll, we'll still do the Bible study and do the material in here, and we'll talk to talk about this at a certain level. But we're gonna go, we're gonna go refrigerator rights. And the reason I use that is just like, Petey will just walk in my house and help himself. I need him to be able to just open the door of my life and just rummage around and just ask me about, hey, man, this looks like. This looks outdated. This is nasty. What's going on in here? Does that make sense? But Brett, you were 100% right. So the amount of people, quite honestly, that are marginally Involved in a church and then gripe that nobody knows who they are. Well, you dummy. You're like the out of shape guy that never goes to the gym and says it's the gym's fault.

I don't know why you got to pick on me right here.

Whatever you get. Look at you from about. Look at pictures from eight years ago. Look at you now. You're doing good, man. You're training in the right direction, friend.

[Host or Moderator]

You probably heard me. I laughed out loud when you said that the scribes, the Pharisees, were the

[Pastor or Teaching Pastor]

hoa of the law, bro. Yeah, I don't do well with Rhoas.

[Host or Moderator]

That's a good one.

[Pastor or Teaching Pastor]

I think some of them go here because they used to never mess with me. I started picking on it bad, and the letters increased dramatically.

You left your. Your trash can out one hour too long, bro.

[Host or Moderator]

Oh, dude.

[Pastor or Teaching Pastor]

That's fun, isn't it?

[Host or Moderator]

Jesus's words to the man on the mat in Matthew's account, He calls him. Well, he first says, take heart. Then he calls him son, my son. And then he says, your sins are forgiven. So when I was reading it recently, it was like, it. It hit me. I mean, maybe they just didn't include it, but they don't ever ask Jesus for anything. They just, here we are. And then he just says something to me.

[Pastor or Teaching Pastor]

He knows.

[Host or Moderator]

He knows.

[Pastor or Teaching Pastor]

So theologically, let's talk about this. So 70 something people raised their hand tonight. They got saved way before their hand went in the air. Jesus saw their heart. As I'm walking through the ABCs. Admit, believe, confess. And in their heart, they're like, literally, oh, my God, that's me, dude. They're. They're. They're putting their faith in Jesus. God gives them the gift of faith. He is saving them by grace, through faith. It's already happening. Whether you. The words I use when Coach Lee led me to Christ was I asked Jesus into my heart. We don't even love that language. But let me tell you what will happen if you ask him. He will come in. You know, so what I love about that, like, what you can't find in the scriptures, is like a formulaic sinner's prayer and be like, here's the three steps, or here's the. Because we're not witches. This is not an incantation. You know, we're not Harry Potter. And if you get it right, zoo, whatever it is, then it works. That's not how it is. Jesus already sees through the intention of your heart. He sees that you're poor in Spirit, and you're broken that you're mourning your sinfulness and you're like whatever words you want to use, I'm turning over the reins. I surrender. I, I believe they all work. He doesn't even say anything but, but his actions, their actions said everything. He is coming as a broken man to the healer. And I love that Jesus gives him what he needs. Cuz if, I mean there, there are paralyzed people in our congregation tonight and their salvation is infinitely, and I use that word on purpose, more important than their healing. And the ones I was talking to know it.

He says, take heart, my son. And you know, what do you do with your heart? You love. That's what you do. That's what your heart does, is it loves. And then he says, my son. And I am more convinced than ever in this probably is not a revelation to most, but it's become very meaningful to me is that family is not a way to understand God. It is the only way.

[Host or Moderator]

Amen.

[Pastor or Teaching Pastor]

There is no way to understand this book or the God who gave it to us that this book is all about outside of the context of family. Whether in scripture, you see it as the household of God or, or even the names of God, whatever it is,

it is Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Family is the only way to understand this. And so for him to say take heart and go right at love and then immediately go to a family statement, sonship is how we would understand it. You know that it's almost like that is the gospel.

So the record of the Father, the Ray Cortes thing, where he really taught us the reminded us of the whole gospel. And most Christians only believe in half the gospel. He doesn't only say your sins are forgiven because the, the, the full gospel doesn't merely forgive you of your sins, it does forgive you of your sins, but it also adopts you into the family of God.

[Host or Moderator]

That's right.

[Pastor or Teaching Pastor]

So it's not just God wipes your slate clean, but he fills up your slate as a son. He doesn't simply welcome you back as a servant. He wraps the robe of righteousness, the ring, the signet ring, and gives you shoes and throws a party and you're fully a son. I mean, you can go on and on and on.

Yeah.

This is all about identity preceding activity.

[Host or Moderator]

Yeah, yeah. He's seen like he, he gives him comfort, he shows him love and gives him sonship and gives him what he really needs, which is salvation. And I want to get into a

[Pastor or Teaching Pastor]

little bit and hold on. The fact that he called him son in that Context, I spent a lot of time on it, but it matters, especially in the first century. It matters today too. One of the things that hit me like crazy. Pull of Bethesda and John 9. In pull of Bethesda, they call the people invalids because they, in that culture, they were invalid. They were not valid. In John 9 they're trying to, they're trying to tell. They're like, whose fault is this? And Jesus calls the woman caught in the act of adultery daughter. This matters, dude. God's what? God's label on you is the one that matters, so. And again, Jim Berg is the first person I ever really heard do a deep dive in this. And I've learned so much from him. I love him so much. But like, you are not. Whatever the biggest thing in your life you think is, is not the biggest thing in your life. If you're a Christian, the biggest thing in your life is Jesus looked at you and called you a son or a daughter and, and his blood tells a better story.

What, what's the difference, you think in between or how would you define the difference between obligatory behavior and biblically faithful obedience motive?

Yeah, there's, you know, God. I mean, the gospel is not anti effort, it's anti earning. Right. And obligatory behavior is earning and gospel driven effort is fueled. It's that you are compelled by the love of Christ. Those. That's the difference.

The reason I ask is this family idea has been really heavy on me because my wife and I, we got to travel and we were, I was, we were in Rome, Italy for our 20th anniversary.

Congratulations.

Thank you. Yeah, it was really great. I love my wife. I love you, babe.

[Host or Moderator]

The,

[Pastor or Teaching Pastor]

this family thing. You're in one of the most religious places in the history of ever. I mean, you're like in Vatican City and like this is seriously religious. Seriously serious. And I'm pretty well informed in church history. And so it's a unique experience in that way when you've got some education of what's happened.

Yeah.

And that was the question that I just continually ran into around every corner, was that you can get into obligatory behavior for God and completely miss out on the joy of obedience because you love God. And, and it's a very. I don't want to say it's a thin line. It's not necessarily a thin line, but it's not something that's necessarily easily discernible from the outside.

You can't tell.

You can't tell.

You can't tell if we'll get to it.

And I don't think I'm the one to judge.

We're not.

It was a serious observation for me.

Correct. And I'm not trying to bag on Catholics any more than I'm trying to bag on any other denomination that teaches the workspace righteousness. What's crazy is the amount of similarity between a good Catholic and a good Baptist is the same because different prescribed behaviors. That's just it. But they think if I do these things and don't do those things, then I'm good with God. The difference is the actual core doctrine of the Baptist church doesn't teach that. It teaches you're saved by grace through faith, period, in Christ and not by works. The reason that I bring up the Catholic thing, and I do believe there's a lot of people that grew up in Catholic churches that have surrendered their life to the lordship of Jesus Christ and they're living that out even though it's in a broken system, but the system actually teaches that salvation by faith alone is. Is anathema, is damnable. It is not the way it works. The core doctrine of that church is a false gospel. Amen, I imagine. Well, this will make a popular. Right, but I don't care about being popular. I want to be faithful to the text. And so it is not the Eucharist that saves you. It is not your first. It is not your baptism. It is not praying the rosary. It's not penance. Actually, penance is anti gospel. Because what you're saying is Jesus did not pay it all. It wasn't to tell us. That was to tell a almost. And then you got to do some stuff, too. All of these things are. They're actually. It's a false doctrine. It's very, very scary. I know some people like candles in Latin better than they like guitars and, you know, like redneck jokes. Okay, that's fine. But the core doctrine, according to the Scripture, is that salvation is by grace, through faith in Christ alone. And you can't add. And it's not Jesus plus anything. And so if you were to talk at Vatican City with the people in charge, they would not give you the same gospel that the New Testament gives you.

[Host or Moderator]

I think for a lot of people, it's. You mentioned control earlier. That's the appeal of it, is that it feels so safe.

[Pastor or Teaching Pastor]

I can. I can somehow balance the scales.

[Host or Moderator]

Whether you're the Baptist or the Catholic. It feels so predictable to say, no, no, you can't question me. Check, check, check, check, check. And it's like it's control.

[Pastor or Teaching Pastor]

Well, I. I just Left with a renewed sense of gratitude. It was almost like I was 20 again in. In learning the. The men who looked at the empty tomb and the person of Jesus Christ as revealed through the testimony of the New Testament and went sold out completely on him as solely authoritative because of his resurrection from the dead and what that birthed in what we now know to be Protestantism.

The.

I left with a renewed sense of just absolute gratitude for the revelation of grace. It's just grace that God would raise up people to bring that kind of renewal in the church. And then you fast forward 600 years to where we are now. And I'm not saying the Protestant church has got it dialed in on every corner.

Don't.

Don't get me wrong. I could go all day. That said, the beauty of the message of grace alone, you know, it's just. There's just. It's so liberating and it's so God, you know, it's just so God.

Grace alone in regards to your salvation. But grace is never alone because a grace by faith that saves you produces all kind of good works.

Well, that's Romans 1.

The order matters.

The Ray Corte sermon you're talking about, what he preached on, is that the righteous shall live by faith for faith. So there's a faith that produces faith.

Hey, I had a thought. I was talking to jd so we're doing right now an Israel trip again, God willing, because we want to take people to see where Jesus walked, the empty tomb, all the stuff, man. We're starting to lead more Footsteps of Paul trips. So we're going to start like in basically Turkey, al Patmos, that kind of stuff. End up in Rome, chase after Paul. I think I haven't told you about this, but here we are. I think we should do some trips to Germany and do a Reformation tour.

John Behringer just lost his mind. He's been asking to do this for like eight years.

There you go, Barringer. So let's just. We'll let you know when, but let's do that. All right, let's do it. And we'll. We'll go to the. To the door of Edinburgh and we'll, you know, we'll do the things.

Behringer, my commitment to you is that you get to be on the first one.

Yeah. With me. I've been. And I've done some of this stuff, but it'd be really cool to talk about because the thing is, the danger when as 21st century Protestants looking at the Reformation, is to not think that we don't continuously need to reform the junk that works its way into the church.

No question.

And continuously just go back to the scripture and just say we just got to be about what this says, you know, Totally. I mean, like us, we got to make sure our processes of baptism isn't so organizationally and technically right that we get, we get biblically wrong about it. You know what I mean? Or whatever the thing is.

Well, it's one of the things that Osborne taught you, that you taught us was when you're talking about the empty tomb and the, the tomb actually belonged to a man named Joseph of Arimathea. And room for the secret disciple. One of the. That's right. One of the things that the, the. My experience in evangelicalism is that you can quickly create some systems and processes that may not explicitly say that the church leaders authority is the same as the Scriptures, but you can create processes that leave no room for guys like Joseph of Ara.

Correct.

And would disqualify them from the part that they played in the scriptures.

And Nicodemus, right. He was like barely a Christian. Like, you don't even get the account of his salvation. The only, like the only interview you get, he gets an F. Like he didn't say, okay, I want to be born again. He's like, how can this be? Like, he never like gets there, but by the time he's ready to bury the Savior. And a part of the way, you know, here's a part of what I think his testimony is as a Pharisee at the Passover, he's about to touch a dead body and do everything wrong. So somehow he realizes this is different. This might be the Lamb that was slain for the forgiveness of my sin. Because I don't get to do any of my Pharisee work on the day of Passover if I put him in that grave. Makes sense.

Yeah.

So like, yeah, we believe according to the scriptures in the priesthood of the believer. Totally. So yeah, that's the kind of thing I mean, like, may we cut. Like the life of the believer is that of daily repentance. That doesn't just mean about your own personal walk with Jesus. That means the church leaders that are in charge of the church have to constantly rewire our mind to the way the scriptures say life ought to be in the church.

Yeah. There's no difference in the priesthood of the believer between Nicodemus and Peter.

Correct. Correct.

Think about that.

Yeah. That gets crucified. Wrong.

I'm just saying. I mean that it's just true though. Either the, either the appreciation of the believer is what it is. And we all have equal access and have all been equally indwelt with unique parts to play. We or it's not like there's no in between.

That's why. Why, by the way, if you watch even baptism, do you see a lot of like non clergy baptizing people? Because this, that's how they did it here. That's why we do it. We're just trying to do to the best of our ability, man. Where we see it, we try to do what it says, and where we don't, we try to be. We ask the spirit of God to show us our blind spots.

Yeah. What would hinder us from doing baptism?

The answer is nothing.

Right? Right.

[Host or Moderator]

Let's talk just for a minute about this. This is like one of the most Jesus things Jesus ever said, right? Because he's so good at this answer that it's like a judo. You know, when he asks them this question, which is easier to say. And you explained that so well, but I don't remember if you said it or I wrote it down as like a summary. Why would Jesus. Why would they want Jesus to do the easier thing? Like, what would the easier thing prove? You know, kind of hit one of. That's one of the answers to the question he gives. But what is he. What are they really asking? Or what is Jesus really asking? When. When he says which is easier to say rise and walk.

[Pastor or Teaching Pastor]

I think the key is he doesn't just say rise and walk. He says he. He claims himself as the Son of man. So he is blatantly telling the scribes. I'm the one that Daniel was talking about. The part of the reason I went to Psalm 103.

[Host or Moderator]

Yeah.

[Pastor or Teaching Pastor]

Is because in Psalm 103, bless the Lord, all my soul and all that is in me. Bless his holy name, Bless the Lord, all my soul. So we're talking about the Lord, the Lord, the Lord. So who is the Lord and then Jesus. Here's what Jesus wants him to get. Here's two ways you can recognize the Lord, the Lord forgives all iniquity. He just said, I forgive your sin and heals your diseases. So just so you know, get up and walk. I am him is what he's saying. He calls himself the Son of man who comes on the clouds, who goes to the ancient of days, who the ancient of days gives him all dominion, all authority over every tribe, tongue and nation. This is, I mean, dude, in Matthew, this is what Jesus says he came to do. Jesus over and over and over in the language that the first century Jewish scribes would speak, he's screaming, I am God. That's what he is. Connecting.

[Host or Moderator]

And I love the thing you pointed out about the God doesn't bless a liar or listen to a liar.

[Pastor or Teaching Pastor]

That was in the Talmud at that point. Yeah.

[Host or Moderator]

Because it is an interesting thing that he said so that you will know. The Son of man has authority to forgive sins, and then he does the healing.

[Pastor or Teaching Pastor]

Correct.

[Host or Moderator]

So one proves the other.

[Pastor or Teaching Pastor]

Exactly, yeah. He's like, okay, because if I make this man walk, you would think I'm God. Well, he wouldn't let me heal this man if I had just made it up and said, I also have the authority to forgive sin. So if my authority to forgive sin is because I am the Son of man, the Son of God. So what I used to think when the Bible would say son of man or shame on me, I just thought, sometimes it's Son of God and sometimes it's Son of man because of the hypostatic union. He's fully God. Fully. That is not what it has to do with at all. It is a messianic claim from Daniel, chapter seven. This is one of the many places where he is saying, the one that Daniel prophesied about that y' all all agreed is going to show up in the clouds. That's me. And if they were like, yeah, but how come you didn't show up in the clouds? He's like, I haven't gotten to that point yet. In Revelation 1:7, when I come back, I'm coming on the clouds.

[Host or Moderator]

Yeah.

[Pastor or Teaching Pastor]

And that. That was their big. It's actually the answer to your kid's question. So Jesus.

I'll just have him call you next time.

The religious leaders. I mean, look, I highlighted that verse. They highlighted all the prophecies about how Israel, the people of God, were going to be blessed and when Jesus didn't fulfill the ones that he's going to fulfill in his second coming. And the first coming, they said, you must not be him because you didn't give us what we wanted. But what he's talking about in fulfilling those now, we know comes in his second coming. So, like, the deserts aren't blooming yet, but they will in the new heavens and new Earth. Hey, here's something I heard from Tim Keller. I kind of said it a little

bit here, may he rest in peace,

But I couldn't quote it good. So I didn't give him credit. He was being interviewed on some zoom kind of thing. It's really casually sitting Back all weird in his turtleneck in his massive library. And he says, if Jesus actually came out of the tomb and literally physically walked out of the grave and appeared to all of those people for six weeks, then no matter what you're going through, and he was battling cancer at this point, it's going to be okay because we don't only believe in a resurrected soul. We believe in a resurrected heaven and earth. He's going to make all things new. Lots of religions believe you go to a better place as like a kind of a secondary prize because we lost this place. Jesus taught it's all going to be made new. So in the new heavens and the new earth, man, everybody walks like this man walks. And everybody's got plenty to eat and all the things, because he is the fullness of life and we get him. And we don't discard this place because it was broken, but he puts it back together the way it was intended and every. It's going to be okay.

Yeah. I don't want to get out theologically out of bounds here, but the. The thing that they were looking for. Right. Was for Jesus to establish the kingdom of Israel as though it were under David or Solomon.

Correct.

In his heyday.

Yep.

And overthrow the Roman Empire or at least evacuate the Roman Empire from the. The land that they had claim on.

Correct.

Right. That's what they wanted. And if you. There's a little bit of like, if you look back from the empty tomb over the last 2,000 years, in a way, I'm not saying this specifically to the nation of Israel, but I'm saying this to the people of God,

all

those who have believed and been grafted into the promises. This is what I'm saying, that a new kingdom that has stood much longer than the Roman Empire ever did.

Yeah.

Was created, initiated by Jesus in the empty tomb. And it has been the most remarkable movement in the history of the world to date. And the entire world is different.

Correct.

Completely different.

Because greater things than even Jesus did. And so he did it greater in breadth. He.

[Host or Moderator]

He did.

[Pastor or Teaching Pastor]

That's what I'm saying. He did establish a greater kingdom.

So if he did.

Completely operating system in the world.

Think about what would happen if Jesus did come in, kick the Romans out, and Israel was a superpower 2000 years ago. Okay. And then what would the fastest growing church in the world right now be in Iran? Probably not, if this whole thing was centered around a government of Jerusalem. See what I'm saying? So, like, God's ways are always better than our ways. The. The people with the palms going, hosanna. Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord. Hosanna means lord, save us. And I think us was the biggest part of that sentence. So if they got what they want, then the gospel doesn't go like it goes. Because if that happens, then there's not persecution, there's not the diasporia. There's not the. There's not. Acts 8 doesn't happen, that Stephen isn't martyred, and all the Christians start fleeing and scatter. Yeah, yeah. Timothy doesn't. You know, the Ethiopian doesn't go there. Timothy doesn't. You. All these people don't go scattering everywhere. And the gospel doesn't go. Because, in fact, I mean, that was part of the problem in Acts 15 is everybody's just hunkering down in Jerusalem fighting over circumcision. And Paul's like, what are y' all talking about? Are y' all crazy? So this is another, like, sometimes. Sometimes God sends the storm, sometimes the storm comes as punishment. See, Jonah? And sometimes God's trying to develop a thing and make a thing happen because we won't get off our blessed assurance. And I mean, one of the God's great, greatest gifts to the world today was Christian persecution in Paul's day. Mm. That's a good. That's a good way to look at it. Like when he said, my kingdom's not of this world. Dude, the largest organization on the planet's the Christian church. Yeah.

His kingdom's not of this world, but he brought it to this world.

Yeah.

[Host or Moderator]

That kind of makes me think for some reason, you know, the way that seeds travel, like tree seeds.

[Pastor or Teaching Pastor]

Yeah.

[Host or Moderator]

Is oftentimes storms. You know, I mean, think about, like, we have palm trees here and they have palm trees in Hawaii.

[Pastor or Teaching Pastor]

Yeah.

[Host or Moderator]

You know what I mean? So some at one point, through a storm and through the current, it landed on another beach. You know, I mean, this is. It's cool. Well, we're running out of time, so I want to close with. We asked people, you know, so many new people came over the weekend and, you know, checking out church again or whatever it is. And we said. We talked about a 22 day challenge called Together 22. And if you're listening to this right now, you can still get involved by texting TOGETHER to 441122. You'll get reminders to love the Lord your God with your heart, soul, mind and strength. So what encouragements would you offer? Would you gentlemen offer?

[Pastor or Teaching Pastor]

So the idea behind this thing is there's A lot of like resets and challenges, like 75 hard. You know, a lot of people are doing these things and a lot of them are great. And you know, physical training is of some value, but training in godliness is what matters the most. And so this is that idea. I dare you, I challenge you to take this together. 22. And it's just one step of obedience. Every day it kind of oscillates between heart, soul, mind and strength. So there'll be a relational thing, there'll be a mental thing, there'll be a physical thing, there'll be a spiritual thing. Because that's how Jesus quotes the Shema saying, it's the greatest law of all. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength. And you basically just. And it's like a checklist. This is a checklist. Not so that God will love you, but because you know that he does. And when you see God for who he rightly is, you love him with all. And what, what's good about these things? See, there's some of these things, I haven't looked at the list yet, but there's some of these things that are normative, natural parts. Well, they wrote it for 16 year olds too, so I'm, I'm looking at it now, but I can't hardly see it. But some of these things are normal rhythms of my life that I do all the time. Well, cool. That day is going to be easy. A great thing about something like this is it's going to stretch you in places that you normally wouldn't do. And that's, that's where the challenge is. You know that God and pretty much all of them are, I mean, pretty normal spiritual disciplines, but they're just over the breadth of all kinds of different people. And maybe when the 22 days are up, maybe there'll be some of these things. And you didn't realize that spending 10 minutes thanking God for specific people in your life and praying for them, that might be a thing that you want to add into your life all the time. So I think it's great. I would do it. I wouldn't be a. There's no HOA with a clipboard behind you checking to see if you did it right either. And again, I think it's Dallas Willard that said go. The gospel is not anti effort, is anti earning. This is not to earn your salvation. This is. But James 4, 8 also says, draw near to me and I will draw near to you. Sometimes that can be kind of vague. This is a great Way to draw near to God. Just lay this for the Lord. Be like, lord, I'm going to move in your direction and you promise. Faith is acting as if I actually believe you. Keep your promises and you promised if I lean in your direction, you're going to meet me all the way. That's what this is. Do it. Amen.

[Host or Moderator]

Well, praise God for all the salvation and baptism and he is doing a work. We've never seen anything like this. Like you pointed out who they glorified. God, who gives such authority to men.

[Pastor or Teaching Pastor]

Here's what's crazy. I've worked here from the beginning here at this place, and I've never seen anything like what God is doing right here and right now through this, what God wants to do. Here. We are in a. We are in a. Something's going on and we're just. Bro. Just going through Matthew, just trusting him at his word.

[Host or Moderator]

Yeah.

[Pastor or Teaching Pastor]

Amen.

[Host or Moderator]

Amen. Pastor Job, any. Any closing thoughts?

[Pastor or Teaching Pastor]

Yeah. Sign up for Together 22. Do it. If you missed the Passion service, it's going to be out of order because you've already done Easter and you're even listening to the Deepen podcast about Easter. Go watch. Watch the passion service. Do together 22. Not. This is not some. This is not a prescription for to make you better. This is grace driven effort because of what Christ has done for you. Let's pray. Jesus, we love you. God, we thank you that ultimately you tore off the roof of time and space and gravity and you were born as a baby in a manger who came to die on a cross and be raised from the grave that you would earn the authority given to you by the Father to look at us in the face and say, son, your sins are forgiven. Amen.

Thank you for listening to the podcast.

The end. You nailed it.

[Pastor Joby Martin]

The reality is everything already belongs to God and when we give financially, we're acknowledging that we trust Him. If you just watch this and feel led to make a donation, text the word donate to 441122 or visit coe22.com donate your generosity is not only an act of worship, but an investment so all people can discover and deepen a relationship with Jesus Christ.