The Weight of Dad’s Words + The Love of the Father - Matthew S1E2

Summary

Deepen with Pastor Joby Martin – The Weight of Dad’s Words + The Love of the Father

Episode: Matthew S1E2 | Date: January 19, 2026

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Main Theme

This episode of "Deepen with Pastor Joby Martin" takes a deep dive into the sermon on Matthew’s account of Jesus’ baptism, exploring the immense impact of a father’s words, the biblical meaning and purpose of baptism, and John the Baptist’s unique role in preparing the way for Jesus. With a roundtable of candid storytelling and theological clarity, Pastor Joby and guests examine how the blessing and presence of a father echo our longing for relationship with God, discuss the doctrinal landscape around baptism, and highlight what it means to publicly declare faith in Christ.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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The Weight of a Father's Words

• The Deep Need for a Father's Blessing

  • Pastor Joby reflects on God’s words at Jesus’ baptism: “My son, in whom I am well pleased.” (00:17)

  • He shares how foundational a father’s affirmation is to children, likening it to the archetypal relationship with God (00:38):

    “All of us are yearning for that [perfect relationship]. And so a shadow of that is dad's words over you.” — Pastor Joby Martin (00:51)

  • The deep longing for the father’s blessing is contrasted with the practical reality:

    “The way we treat our kids will be the most defining thing in our children's lives as adults as to how they see God the father.” — Pastor Joby Martin (05:19)

  • Notable Story:

    • Wild Bill, one guest’s father, showed up at the airport just to clap and walk his son home after a long, tired ministry trip.

    “The number one way to be a good dad — show up, man. Presence, dude, that's incredible.” — Joby Martin (03:58)

  • Parenting Wisdom:

    • Avoid phrases like “I'm disappointed in you” as it doesn’t reflect gospel reality (06:12–06:50).
    • Focus on effort and attitude, not just achievement.

    “God's for you and so am I. We say that a lot.” — Pastor Joby Martin (06:54)

• Theological Root:

  • The desire for our dad’s approval reflects our spiritual longing for the Heavenly Father.
  • Reference to John Eldredge’s writing that everyone’s relationship with their dad shapes their adult view of God.

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John the Baptist: Historical and Prophetic Significance

• Role & Identity

  • John fulfills Old Testament prophecy, coming “in the spirit of Elijah” (09:34).

  • Matthew’s Gospel links John to the Jewish audience via prophecy; Luke provides more backstory for a Gentile audience (09:34–10:28).

  • Distinctive Life:

    “There's a parenting lesson right there — don't try to dress up your kids in your clothes... They've got their own unique call on their life.” — Pastor Joby Martin (10:10)

• John’s Birth and Personhood in the Womb

  • Emphasizes that John was “full of the Spirit from birth,” using the example of John leaping in the womb as biblical evidence for life and personhood beginning at conception (12:10–13:35).

• Warning for the Church

  • Pastor Joby warns that the greatest threat to the Church comes from within:

    “The most dangerous thing to the American church right now? The American pulpit, period.” — Pastor Joby Martin (13:49)

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Baptism: Meaning, Practice, & Misconceptions

• John’s vs. Jesus’s Baptism

  • John’s baptism: about repentance and preparation for the Messiah (23:48)
  • Jesus’s baptism: initiation and identification, pointing to His redemptive mission, with the exclamation point at Pentecost (23:48–24:20)

• Baptismal Practices

  • Baptism is not a requirement for salvation but commanded as public declaration for disciples (24:44–25:52).

  • Child baptism and christening are framed as parental dedication; “get baptized” when your faith is personal (27:19, 34:05).

  • On Order & Intent:

    “Order matters…get baptized.” — Joby Martin on post-belief baptism (27:18)

• ‘Work’ vs. Obedient Response

  • Any act, including baptism, must be a response to grace, not trying to earn favor (29:16–33:46).

    “If we are trying to go first, we think we are the preeminent one, and then he has to respond to us...You’re trying to earn my grace. Which means you don't get it.” — Pastor Joby Martin (30:04)

  • The same action can be worship or offense, depending on intent (31:39).

• On Repeat Baptisms

  • If initial baptism was not from sincere faith, get baptized after you truly believe (34:05).
  • On secondary baptisms (like in the Jordan River): it’s an affirmation, not diminishing the first (40:38–41:00).

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Gifts and Filling of the Holy Spirit

• Spirit Baptism & Gifts

  • Immersion in the Holy Spirit happens at conversion (Ephesians 1:13–14), not in a separate “second baptism” (51:25–54:00).

  • Differentiates types of “tongues” in Scripture: actual languages (Acts), prayer language (Romans 8), and prophetic utterance (1 Corinthians).

    “What's actually evidence of the Spirit is evangelism, that you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, and you will be my witnesses.” — Pastor Joby Martin (54:08)

  • All spiritual gifts are for edification, not confusion or self-centered experience (56:06–56:53).

  • Encouragement to yearn for the Spirit’s fullness and experience more of God (57:24).

    “God does have more for you. There’s more of him to experience...not so we can get more Holy Spirit, but so he can have more of us.” — Pastor Joby Martin (57:24–58:25)

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Public Declaration & Commission

• Being a Disciple vs. Being a Fan

  • Attending church and appreciating sermons isn’t the same as discipleship and obedience:

    “There’s a lot of Christian adjacent people and they’re not doing the thing.” — Pastor Joby Martin (59:41)

  • Emphasizes living out the Great Commission and taking visible next steps of faith (e.g., baptism, making disciples) (60:52).

• Practical Q&A on Baptism

  • Timing: Sincerity of intent is key; public is the biblical norm, but large crowds aren’t necessary (61:12–62:01).
  • Baptism doesn’t always need to be at the church—it can happen wherever a believer professes faith (62:04–63:21).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Father’s Blessing:

  “The way we treat our kids will be the most defining thing in our children’s lives as adults as to how they see God the father.” — Pastor Joby Martin (05:19)

• On Presence over Perfection in Fatherhood:

  “The number one way to be a good dad — show up, man. Presence, dude, that's incredible.” — Pastor Joby Martin (03:58)

• On Baptism & Order:

  “Order matters…get baptized.” — Pastor Joby Martin (27:18)

• On Works vs. Worship:

  “If we are trying to go first, we think we are the preeminent one, and then he has to respond to us…You’re trying to earn my grace. Which means you don’t get it.” — Pastor Joby Martin (30:04)

• On the Role of John the Baptist:

  “There's great similarities between the life of the believer and the life of John the Baptist. John the Baptist is saying, prepare, he's coming. And we are saying, he has come and prepare, he's coming back.” — Pastor Joby Martin (19:55)

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Key Timestamps

• Impact of Father's Words / Blessing: 00:17–08:59
• John the Baptist's Role & Prophecy: 09:34–15:13
• Baptism: Meaning, Practice: 23:48–34:33
• On Works vs. Response to Grace: 29:16–33:46
• Holy Spirit, Gifts, & Misconceptions: 51:25–58:25
• Public Declaration, Living as Disciples: 58:51–63:21

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Episode Tone

Pastor Joby and guests maintain a conversational, honest, and sometimes humorous tone, mixing heartfelt storytelling, biblical teaching, and practical advice. The approach is direct yet pastoral, aiming to both challenge and encourage listeners in their faith and obedience.

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Summary Takeaway

This episode is a passionate appeal to embrace the biblical model of both parenthood and discipleship, challenging listeners to understand the gravity of their words and actions, especially as fathers, and to step into the fullness of faith—including obedience in baptism and openness to the Holy Spirit. John the Baptist serves as a model for both bold truth-telling and humility, reminding believers both to prepare the way for Christ and to live as public witnesses for Him. If you haven’t taken the step of believer’s baptism, or if you wrestle with the meaning of Spirit-filled living, you’ll find both clarity and a heartfelt call to action in this conversation.

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to Deepen with Pastor Joby Martin. The Church of 1122 is a movement for all people to discover and deepen a relationship with Jesus Christ. And we're praying this message helps you deepen your relationship with him. Now let's dive in.

[B]

Well, first of all, shout out to Jessup campus. How about that testimony from Pastor PJ and his son? This text, pastor, ends with my son, in whom I am well pleased. Why do you think the dad's blessing over a son is so weighty?

[C]

I think I talked about this last week, or I have been talking about this a lot. It. We. We align with the created order. I mean, that's first and foremost. Adam, the very first human being, opens his eyes, and he's face to face with his heavenly father in this just perfect, unadulterated relationship. And all of us are yearning for that. And so a shadow of that is dad's words over you, you know?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And it just is what it is. And so, I mean, think about it, man. When your dad, like, gives you an atta boy, it just means the most. And so from eternity past until 2000 years ago, Jesus, God the Son, is living in this perfect relationship with the Father. And God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are lavishing love upon one another, whatever that looks like in heaven. And then there is a bit of a separation. For 30 years, he lives in utter obscurity. I mean, you know, like, he. When he's 12, he's sitting down with the elders and he's chopping up Bible with them, and he knows it better than everybody else. And when Mary's like, dude, you're breaking my heart here. He's like, I gotta be in my dad's house. So there. There is a bit of a. You know, Jesus is fully God, and yet he willfully decides to condescend and from his earthly experience, limit himself. Like, he only be in one place at one time, those kind of things. And so now, to kick off his public ministry, God's like, really? That's my boy. I'm really proud of him. Does it again on the mountain of transfiguration. Yeah, it's only two times. In the New Testament, God speaks out loud, says the same thing.

[D]

Can I tell y' all a Wild Bill story real quick?

[C]

Oh, let's go.

[D]

Wild Bill's. That's what I call my dad. He was anything but. That's funny.

[B]

And.

[D]

She'S just like, 2000. I'm young man and 18 years old, and I get. I'm getting booked to preach at all these places, an 18 year old, I mean, it's super weird.

[C]

A lot of it had to do.

[D]

With who he was. And I over commit. I'm too young. I got no business doing the things that I was doing in the places that I was doing it. And I'm like 15 days into a straight run and I call my dad the day before I get home and I'm like, dad, I'm gonna, I'm flying back home tomorrow. I just. Man, we pray. I'm just tired and I was like, I think I'm just out over my skis. And he just prays for me on the phone and I get off the phone and I fly back home. Well, this is pre. A lot of the post 9, 11 TSA preach like you used to could just go to the gate. Yeah. And so my dad, I get off the plane from being tired and I walk out and my dad's standing there just clapping. How cool is that? He's just clapping and he's like, that's my boy, you know, and he just put his arm around with me, around me and just walked me back to the car. Took me to the Waffle House in Jesus name. That was that dude.

[B]

Britt loves him some Waffle House dude.

[C]

That don't run past that.

[D]

How about that?

[C]

The number one way to be a good dad. Show up man. You know, just show up. Presence, dude, that's incredible. Yeah, for sure.

[B]

You know, how would some, you know this is the wrong thing to say theologically, but people will say, oh, everybody's got that God shaped hole. And talking about like the need for your dad to say something and how it aligns with our, the right relationship we were made for, with our heavenly Father. Do you think maybe that's part of what that means when people say that? When they, when they say things like everybody's got a longing for God even though they're depraved in sin.

[C]

Well, it's wild. I mean, have you ever heard of a thing called a mommy? I've never heard of that. It's like not a phrase. I'm not saying people haven't been dragged about some evil mamas out there, but it's just different, man. That dad wound thing is a thing. I mean, Eldridge says in his book. I mean everybody makes a vow based on their relationship with their dad. Either he hurt me, I'm not going to be anything like him, or I want to be just like him. And again, it's just a part of created order because we have a Heavenly Father that we long to be in right relationship with. Dude, I'll tell you, I mean, you want something weighty. The way we treat our kids will be the most defining thing in our children's lives as adults as to how they see God the father. Yeah, I mean that's, that's a thing, dude, no question. That's why dad's words just weigh 10,000 pounds. And it's not fair. Moms do 10x the work. They actually made them. You know what I mean? And yet. And moms say all kind of stuff and dad's words, dude, they just weigh. I mean it's the weight of the world.

[D]

I think it's dad's words. This is just subjective to my experience, but I think it's dad's words and mom's temperature.

[C]

Yeah, that's true.

[D]

And if you can somehow find the right balance between the two of you in the house, like, it can be a pretty healthy. What are some of your like go to phrases that you go to in regards to speaking life into your kids and, or that were phrases that you just like, stay away from this.

[C]

One of the phrases that we early on tried to stay away from completely is I'm disappointed in you. Even though that was the actual reality. But it does not reflect the gospel at all. Now we can say you did this and that was wrong and we're going to punish you because we love you. But we tried to not say I'm disappointed in you because there's a gap between what you expect and what you experience. That's what disappointment is. And God doesn't have that gap. Cuz he never had an expectation like the expectations you would be perfect and you can't be. So he sent his son Jesus and he knew, he knew what he was getting when he purchased you. God's for you and so am I. We say that a lot. One of the things, especially around sports or academics, we try not to celebrate the product but attitude and effort because you actually have control over those things. Yeah, some of those things, you know. What about you?

[B]

I mean I've, I've learned to say things like I love watching you play.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I love being here to see you. Even though what I, what I would naturally say is, oh, you did so great doing this.

[C]

Right.

[B]

You know, because I wouldn't have thought about it. But the shadow of that is maybe if I don't do it that way he won't say it, you know. And so one of my daughters is.

[D]

A softballer and she's, she got Into a little bit of a hitting slump which everybody, everybody does and whatever the sport is you play. And she's really great with a bat. She gets into this, this hitting slump. And I was really trying to thread the needle between like rightly assessing the situation that she found herself in and not communicating anything but we'll get through it and we just got to keep swinging, you know what I mean? And it was like a, it was kind of a weird thing to nav navigate in 12 year old girls travel. Softball, you know what I mean? Cuz you want to give them, right? Feedback. But I don't want to give them. But I'm also not. Anyway, you know, you don't want to speak anything but life into them in the sense.

[C]

Well, very practically in softball start counting different things. Like just count hard hits, not like on base percentage for sure. That's huge. They actually do that in the mlb. That helps. And then distinguish between practice and a game and only celebrate the game and at practice. Practice is the time to be like if you keep stepping out, you're going to keep striking out these things. That's just what it is, you know. And so you work on the things in the time to work on it because I mean dude, softball, baseball, that's the thing you, I mean unlike almost every other sport, there's a team and you're on a team and it's just you standing at the plate and the pressure is real for sure.

[B]

It's like a free throw every, every play. Yeah, well, we're talking about John the Baptist and his importance in the gospel. And I wanted to. You mentioned a little bit, Pastor, the stuff that's in the Gospel of Luke. So I thought we could talk a little bit about that because you know, Matthew doesn't mention that he's Jesus's cousin or that there was a miraculous nature to his birth. It wasn't immaculate, but it was miraculous. So let's talk a little bit about their connections and how, how would he have been full of spirit from birth? Was that a Nazarite vow he was under? Talk a little bit more about that.

[C]

Yeah, well, the way the old covenant ends is this prophecy about this coming one that John the Baptist fulfills. He comes in the spirit of Elijah. And so again what Matthew is trying to do though is Matthew is trying to convince the Jewish people that Jesus is the Messiah. They're bought in on the prophecies of Malachi. You know, he quickly just connects the dots. All he's got to do is give one shout out to Elijah. And they're like, okay, that makes sense. Luke is writing to a different audience, so he's got to teach them things that they didn't even know they needed to know. He is hitching them through the Old Testament promises. Right. So that's why different audiences will lead to why one author decides to include some things and the other one doesn't, Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And so then John the Baptist shows up on the scene, man. In the spirit of Elijah. And so you could do a deep dive into Kings and find out the kind of spirit that he's walking in. So I think it's a really big deal. The camel hair and the leather belt, dude. His dad was a priest wearing priestly garments. He ain't wearing priestly garments. There's a parenting lesson right there that don't try to dress up your kids and your clothes. And I'm not just talking about, like, stylistically, but they've got their own unique call on their life, and a part of us as parents is to help them walk that out. And so, yeah, man, John the Baptist comes out of nowhere, lives out in the woods where it's dangerous. He's just going to sling the truth of the Scriptures regardless of its implications. All of these things are like Elijah. Now, I do think that I got. I got an email today. I don't read many emails. I'm reading more than ever right now because I'm waiting on my tax stamp for a new silencer to come, and it comes via email. So I got to check it all the time. So God sends me an email. I'll dig into it this week. And he's like, we need help. Our. Our pastor at our church believes in gay marriage and believes abortion is okay. That was pretty fresh on my mind is why I leaned into the baby in the womb stuff, right? So this. A clump of cells cannot be filled with the Holy Spirit. A person is. That means John the Baptist is a person in utero. Biblically, that's a person. The same word for baby that is to describe Jesus. Post birth is used to describe Jesus in the womb. John the Baptist in utero leaps at the presence of Jesus. These are not inhuman clumps of cells here. The Bible is very, very clear that life begins at conception. The Spirit is on him from the beginning because this man has been set apart for a long time, sent by Jesus to prepare the way for Jesus. It's not an accident that their teaching ministries the same thing. And Jesus wasn't ripping off John the Baptist. John the Baptist was given this message by God the Son, and it was testified to by multiple prophets hundreds of years before he ever shows up on the scene. All of these things are true. A great question, if you're talking to a Christian about abortion is in the womb, was Jesus fully God and fully man? And if they say he wasn't fully man, that is a heresy that has been dealt with over and over by the church. So they're stick. You know, theologically, they're like, oh, right. Because the hypostatic union was there from conception. So it is. This is. This is the evidence, whatever this pastor, this apostate church is doing. The question the person asked is, can you please give me information on how we can just become an 1122 church wherever we are? Does that happen? And I am going to say yes. Yes. There. There is a wolf, dude. I was. Yeah.

[D]

Text outpost to 441122.

[C]

We'll get back to you. We'll start there. Yeah. But somebody. Oh, I. Y' all know Woody and Carla. Yeah. And they host an 1825 Disciple group. And once a year, I just go to dinner with them. I go. They host at their house. He cooks the best bacon rat filet. And all these young people asked me questions. And somebody said, what's the most dangerous thing to the American church right now? I said, the American pulpit, period. The church handles persecution from the outside pretty good, dude. There's a revival in Iraq right now. The underground church in China is booming. Okay. Paul's biggest warning to the elders of the church of Ephesus is like, all right, when I got out of here, there's going to be some people that come up from among you, and they're wolves in sheep's clothing. And you start moving around, moving away from the word of God, you are moving away from Jesus. Dangerous. I mean, tonight was not a feel good sermon, dude. I'm yelling at people. If you are not a Christian, this is as close to heaven as you'll ever be. Please. You will be baptized either in the Holy Spirit or fire. Please be baptized in the Holy Spirit, which means surrender your life to Christ so that when the acts of judgment comes, you will not be separated from God forever and ever and ever and ever.

[D]

One of the things that always stands out to me about John the Baptist and this rings true of the Old Testament prophets as well, which we should probably talk about him being the last one saved Jesus.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Prophet, priest and king kind of situation. But one of the things that always stands out to me is how hard the path of the prophet is. And there that I'm aware of. There's no such thing as a self appointed one.

[C]

There is not.

[D]

And so anybody who would just self appoint themselves as a prophet. One is not. And two, anyone that God historically called and appointed like this is a tough life.

[C]

This is tough, terrible.

[D]

And I've heard it. I don't know if you've ever heard this, but I don't. This is all speculation, but I've heard the argument before. This interesting to me that when John the Baptist was young, some people would even go as far back as to when Herod was trying to kill the babies that in order to hide him they put him. I cannot remember the name of the people, but there was like a desert nomadic sect of Judaism that some would attribute like preservation of the Dead Sea.

[C]

Scrolls to the Essenes.

[D]

Maybe. The Essenes could be.

[C]

But good. Yeah.

[D]

I didn't have time to look it up, but I can't remember. And that he was raised.

[C]

It's a little bit of biblically informed speculation, but yeah, it could have some teeth.

[D]

Totally not saying it's right or wrong. I just think it's. He was. Spent a decent chunk of his life in the desert. And you don't just go out in the desert and put on camel hair and start eating animals and then all of a sudden become Jewish famous.

[C]

Correct.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Like you've learned how to live this life and there's some backstory there.

[C]

Let's make a distinction between big P profit and little P. You know, the prophecy. The gift of prophecy. Okay. A big P prophet is they would say this is the word of the Lord. A little P person with the gift of prophecy is you're pointing to the Bible to say let me teach the word of the Lord. I'm not speaking the word of the Lord straight from God. I'm speaking from the reveal word of God to you. That's very, very different. So the role of big P prophet does not currently exist in the New Testament Church there are people with the gift of prophecy. And prophecy doesn't mean telling the future. It means telling the truth. So what I just did would fall under the gifting of the prophetic spirit.

[B]

Of prophecy is a revelation of Jesus Christ. That's what it says in Revelation.

[C]

Correct? Yeah. All right. And. But it's, it's also. I'm not telling you what's going to happen. I'm telling you what always happens. If you deny Christ, you're going to hell. Is that a prophecy? Yeah, but I'm just telling you what it said, you, you do marriage this way, it's going to go bad. All we're doing is aligning ourselves with the truth of the word of God. One of the things Pastor Adam has just brought to my mind, something that he's talked about with us is very, very true. There is no new revelation. There is illumination of what has been revealed.

[D]

A great way to think about it.

[C]

That's a very, that's the way to, to think about it.

[B]

And I think as Peter writes in his epistle, he says they, they wrote under the inspiration of, of God carried along by the Holy Spirit. But now we have the prophetic word more fully confirmed.

[C]

Correct.

[B]

You know, in Jesus you made mention of, of these two, but if it's all right, I want to read the two things that came to mind when Jesus specifically talks about Elijah. So we're going to get to him later in the year. So in John, I mean, in Matthew 11, this is when the messengers come from John the Baptist asking him about him. And he says, truly, I say to you, among those born of women, there has arisen no one greater than John the Baptist. Yet the one who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence and the violent. Take it by force. For all the prophets in the law prophesied until John, and if you are willing to accept it, he is Elijah who is to come. He who has ears to hear, let him hear. That's what you were talking about, the last prophet.

[D]

Yep, that is what I'm talking about. And that will be preached at some point as we get into Matthew in a few months, and it's a doozy.

[C]

Matthew 11.

[B]

So if you think about what was Elijah's role in the Old Testament? Well, he was calling out the evil, but also calling to the faithful. So this is happening also with John the Baptist. Right. He, the people who are looking for John to come to prepare the way for the Messiah would have maybe recognized him, but then he would also serve to call out the injustice.

[C]

There's great similarities between the life of the believer and the life of John the Baptist. John the Baptist is saying, prepare, he's coming. And we are saying, he has come and prepare. He's coming back. It's the same message, this different part of the timeline. The reason that the least in the kingdom of heaven, us three are greater than John the Baptist in that we have experienced the resurrect, the relationship with God post resurrection and the indwelling Holy Spirit for every believer. He got his head cut off before Jesus comes out of the grave, dies on the cross and comes out of the grave. So we have a richer, fuller picture of God's redemptive plan for humanity than John the Baptist had. And it's better.

[D]

One of the things you see about John is that I don't love the word, that the truth that he would tell the truth and it would defend in, in the way that we understand the word. Like I got my feelings hurt or I got offended. But one of the things you see about John the Baptist is Herod, Herod's wife. They hate John because he's telling the truth about what they've done. And the Jewish people love that because they hate the Romans.

[C]

Yep.

[D]

But then he flips it and goes right after the Jewish leaders and the Jewish. And so it's like he's like a man on fire here, you know, I mean, literally all alone. And what I love about that is that he is so deeply committed to the truth and that the truth does it is a double edged sword. Grace and truth, you know, and you can't separate them from one another. And he was calling everybody to repentance, not just the people that it was convenient to do. So you see what I'm saying?

[C]

Yeah. And I'm not trying to take this like dumb progressive, there's a middle way thing that people do in politics these days because there's really not. What's the middle, what's the middle position on abortion? That's called murder. Like, so that's not where I'm going. But his ultimate allegiance was not to the conservatives or the liberals. The Sadducees were liberal because they're like, there's no heaven, so you might as well live it up now. And you don't have to pay attention to all the words, only the words of Moses in the first five books. Okay. And then the Pharisees would have been the Conservative party. They're like, actually there's not enough laws, we're going to add more. And his ultimate allegiance was to God, not to any sort of powerful position that man sat in. And it got him in trouble, it got him killed. But here's, here's something very interesting, man. Because, you know, occasionally I'll give you like, why you got to be so political? John the Baptist goes after what you're talking about with Herod. It's like, your immortality is not okay and it's going to affect our entire country. Repent. Jesus is not. He's not like that guy got too political, got out of his lane, said greatest of all time, you know, so that gives. I feel like that gives me some freedom. When politicians get out of their lane and get out of their spheres, three primary spheres that God creates is the family, it's the church and his government. And when they get out of what they're supposed to do and begin to try to redefine things that God has defined, then we're going John the Baptist. And if it gets our head cut off, okay, so be does. In some places, it literally does.

[D]

That's what I'm saying.

[C]

It literally does.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you mentioned that his. And it's. It's right there in verse two that his preaching message is the same that we read in Matthew 4. So talk a little bit more about what's the. What was the distinctive differences between the way that John was preaching it and then what Jesus was preaching?

[C]

So John was preparing. It's the same as the baptism. So John's baptism was a baptism of repentance for preparation. Jesus's baptism was initiating thy kingdom come. And it was initiating the entire narrative of God's redemptive plan by sending the lamb that would be slain for the forgiveness of all sin. And so the exclamation point on the end of it would be Pentecost, when he sends the spirit in fire. Does that make sense?

[B]

Yes.

[C]

So when, when we, according to like Romans 6, we get baptized in accordance with what Jesus did. Jesus didn't need to get baptized for salvation, nor do we need to get baptized for salvation. But if he's your Lord and he told us that you baptize disciples, then we do it because we are. We are joining with him and his dead, buried, risen again.

[B]

It's probably worth mentioning that the ritual of baptism would not be completely unfamiliar to this people at this time. The, the cleansing pre worship in the temple in a. A bath called a mikvah. Sometimes they were immersed.

[C]

There were three kinds of baptisms in the Old Testament. The, the first one was like a ceremonial washing, like for a special event. The second one was when somebody was proselytized and became. They were a Gentile and they became a Jew. There would be like this initiation, dunking, and then there's a third one. I can't remember what it was. And so what John was doing were more like the first two, you know, in alignment with that, but it was different. It was like this tradition that we have had is actually pointing to something greater than you realize.

[B]

And they, they did it for A cleansing purpose. Like, okay, this is a symbolizing of the cleansing to prepare to meet with God. And then when Jesus says, we let it be so for us as fitting to fulfill all righteousness, he's saying, let's redefine that. This is a declaration of a righteous position before God.

[C]

Because now you don't have to get baptized to be saved. See the thief on the cross. See the. There's a. There's like. There's only like two or three people in the gospels that believed and didn't get baptized. But the. The. The New Testament doesn't have a category for the unbaptized believer. Like, it doesn't even make sense. Like, what are you talking about? No, no, no. This is what we do, that we get saved and then we get baptized to tell the whole world.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Let me ask some questions just for clarity. You talked about some of this tonight, and you always talk about it when you talk about baptism. But let's just say I'm a person who got baptized as a kid and. But I didn't mean it. What am I supposed to do?

[C]

Get baptized. Okay. Acts 19. Because that's very similar to the. What kind of baptism did you have? And the next 19 guys are like, they say, did you. Were you filled with the Holy Spirit? And they're like, who's he?

[B]

Because, you know, there was one.

[C]

The timing was off.

[B]

Right.

[D]

So this would be folks that grew up in a Southern Baptist or some kind of tradition like that that baptized by immersion, and you were old enough to remember it and be a part of it and. But, you know, in your heart of hearts, you walked away from the Lord. You know. You know that you walk away from the Lord, that you were just doing a thing or whatever, but since then, you have actually become a follower of Jesus. Order matters.

[C]

Yep. Get baptized.

[D]

Get baptized. All right. You were baptized as a baby in a tradition that did that.

[C]

Yes. I. Technically, I don't think you were baptized because you were not professing Christ as your Lord and Savior. You couldn't even say words out loud. But you're not renouncing what your parents did. You're actually accomplishing what they were praying for in that moment. And so what they were actually doing was like, child and family dedication. We're going to dedicate ourselves and this child to the church in the teaching of the Gospel, in hoping that one day that they will know it themselves. Now, especially if it's a Protestant pedo baptism. Pedo just means, like, kid baptism. That's different from the Catholic understanding, even though functionally it looks the same. They actually believe that we are born in sin and that baptism puts you in a state of grace in order for you to then do the. The religious acts that you need to do to stay in that state of grace so that you can receive salvation. The problem with that is the Bible teaches imputed righteousness, not imparted righteousness and imparted. The simplest way to think of it is, if I do my part, then God will do his part. That is not what the Gospel teaches. Ephesians 2 says, you're saved by grace through faith and not by works, lest no man boast. And so there's no work that you can do to get saved. So what you should do is as a believer, get baptized.

[D]

Even the word fascinating question is, and.

[C]

Say to your parents, thank you. Thanks for loving me enough to do what was in your tradition to present me before the church and pray for me that one day I might know it myself. And now I know it myself for sure.

[D]

For sure. A fascinating question is what. What constitutes something as a work? We'll save that for another day.

[C]

Well, the. The real thing is what? Yeah, because the people that think this out baptism is required, we'll say, it's.

[D]

Not a work, it's a response, is an idea work.

[C]

If you think, here's what's crazy. All right, so it is the just.

[D]

Having your coffee over there, old buddy.

[C]

It's the intent behind it. So when the Bible says that even our righteous deeds are like filthy rags before the Lord, it's the intent behind it. Because the same deed could either bless God as an act of worship or be offensive because you think you're putting him in the corner. It actually comes back to the principle of preeminence. So if God is first and we are responding to his grace in obedience, praise God. If we are trying to go first, we think we are the preeminent one, and then he has to respond to us. So if I feed the poor in order that God owes me salvation, it is actually offensive to God. If I feed the poor because God fed me spiritually when I was starving, then According to Matthew 25, Whatever I've done, the least of these I've done unto him. But if you try to put God in your debt by your activity idea, prayer, tithing, it does not matter what the thing is thought life, then it's actually offensive. Like filthy rags like use menstrual cloths, because he's like, you're trying to earn my grace. Which means you don't get it. You think you bring merit. So the same activity, the person that went online and clicked the give button and filled it out, the activity is the same. God knows the heart. The cheerful giver blesses God. The one that is trying to put God in their debt is an offense towards God. Same activity. One is a work trying to earn righteousness, and one is a response to the imputed righteous of righteousness of Christ.

[D]

I think a lot miss that.

[B]

I think a lot of people miss that. Because when people say that they're focusing on. They focus a lot on the work. And they'll say, oh, but. But it's filthy rags. And I think the. The point is the intent, because it.

[C]

Doesn'T mean never work is singing. Does it bless God or not bless God? It depends.

[B]

Right?

[C]

So, like, dude, I get it. So a guy's like going in for a job interview. He's got a job interview tomorrow. So he just prays a little bit extra and he sings a little bit extra. Can he. Because he's trying to, like, figure out the combination to be in good graces so that maybe God will hook him up with a job that ain't good. That's very different than, you just missed the heart of God completely. Now, no problem if you pray a little extra because you feel this need. And he's a good dad, loves to give good gifts to his kids. And you're like, lord, I'm surrendering this thing to you. I've been worried about it. I don't want to worry about it, but by prayer and supplication, I want to bring all my requests with thanksgiving to you. That's what I'm trying to do right now. God, would you guard my heart and mind? I know you're sovereign. I really want it. I really want this job. But I'm going to lay it before you. Praise God for that. That's cast all your cares by me, because I care for you.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

But if you think you can figure out the combination. So the real heresy of the prosperity gospel is not the prosperity part. God does want to prosper you, but prosperity is him. And God wants to trust his trustworthy kids with money and stuff and. And notoriety and all the things so that we'll just lavish it back towards his kingdom. The heresy of the prosperity gospel is about preeminence. If I give you, if I sow my seed, then you owe me ten or a hundredfold. Then what I'm saying is I'm in charge. And God, you have to respond to me and I found out the code and God's like, I don't share my throne. If you bring your first and best because he first loved us by giving us his best and it's a response as an act of worship. Then God's like, I love that when you do that. I love the cheerful giver. So it could be anything, man. Like if you treat your wife right for a week, cuz you're. That's a good example, dude. Your wife can smell it in one second if you're actually loving her or you're actually just trying to like pull the right strings because you read love languages and you're trying to weaponize it to get what you want. That ain't love. Love does not demand its own way. Same thing with God. You don't get to demand your own way and like pull religious strings to try to get, get him to do what you, what you think he owes you.

[D]

That's a great definition between love and lust. Love is that I, I want your highest good. Lust is that I want my highest good. And I'm going to use. And I'll use you to get it.

[C]

Yeah. That's why when I define love, it's my joy in the Lord towards others at great expense of myself. Yeah, lust is at great expense to you. I'm going to get what I want.

[D]

That's right. So back to baptism. I'm a kid, got baptized in some tradition, but I really didn't stop following Jesus to later get baptized. I was sprinkled or whatever word you want to use as a baby. The fulfillment of what your parents were praying for you, you have of your own cognition responded to the prompting of the Holy Spirit and you are now a follower of Jesus. Get baptized.

[B]

Which by the way, the word that they use usually with, with infants is christening. And that actually is closer to anointing than it is to baptizo, to use your example from the Greek, but correct.

[D]

Yeah. If, if I think about it in terms of like child dedication, it's one of the things in, especially in Presbyterian theology of which most reformed conservative Presbyterian theology. I like, I see it and I'm, I get it and I'm thankful for a lot of the rich history of the Presbyterians. Christening babies is one of the things when we say christening and we say babies and we talk about it as though like what we talk about child dedication and how we parents want their kids to walk with the Lord. I can get there. When you start getting on your like the continue the continued covenant reality through the lineage of inheritance of bloodline. That's where I'm like, I feel like you're standing on your ears upside down. To try to make this thing theologically.

[C]

Work to the point what actually happened is, you know, King James is like, hey, we're gonna do English Bible. And they get to the word baptizo and they're like, we can't put what it means because it means the dip, dunk, submerge, wash. So we're going to transliterate it instead of translate it. That was to protect their necks because he was killing people. They didn't do the right thing. And they had, they already had the history for about 1200 years of baptizing babies. Right. So then what happens is the Reformation comes. Nobody ever reforms the whole thing. There's some things you hold on to and then based on your practice, you reverse engineer a theology around it. And so the Paedo Baptists, they, I think they have an over realized New Testament understanding of an Old Testament covenant, which was circumcision. And the whole thing only works for insiders. So like in the old covenant, it was a particular people and you got circumcision, at least for the males, as a symbol of God's covenant love towards those people. But the New Testament comes and because the Old Testament people missed it. And this is for all people in all places. So I think that outward symbol of God's covenant is, I think it falls apart real quick. And I've, you know, I've battled with my Presbyterian people. Right. But it only works for the insiders, for the people that grew up in the. What about me? I didn't grow up in the church, you know, and I, I mean, you got to make some. And there's the christening or baptizing children is an argument from silence. In the New Testament, there's zero evidence of a child, of a baby being baptized. And then they'll say, yeah, but the jailer, he and his whole house got saved. My whole house, my whole house has got baptized and none of them were babies. They all confess Jesus as their Lord. So to just assume that that included babies isn't. It's an argument from silence. It's just not there. In the New Testament, every person baptized is a believer.

[D]

So a different category. I was in college, we all go home on summer break or go work our jobs come back. A guy who was a friend of mine goes home, gets discipled by a local pastor in his town, spends every day with him.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Comes back and he has now become convinced that baptism is salvific and that's a part of the salvation process. And he's in a church that prescribes this occult, actually. And we argue and argue and argue in a healthy way for a little while, and then it just gets unhealthy. And the way that sometimes the theological arguments can end up being. And that said, I know for sure there are people who attend 1122 now that. And it's probably a small number of them. But it's worth asking that. I grew up in or around a tradition where baptism was taught as a part of salvation, but they've heard us teach about it, done, hopefully done their own study, realize that that is not the faithful witness of the New Testament.

[C]

Correct.

[D]

And do they get baptized again?

[C]

I think it goes back to the why if they were confessing Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior when they got baptized, not so that they would be saved, but they knew that they were saved by the grace of God. Like, here's the one thing I wouldn't do. My daughter. I baptized my daughter twice. So here's a good example. So I baptized her when she was 8 or something. And I was there and I ran her through the ringer of our kids ministry and I heard her admit, believe and confess. You know what I mean? And now she's 16 at student camp, and I preach a message on baptism and she texts me and she's like, I really want to get baptized. That is not the moment where I'm going to die on a hill. Keeping her from taking a significant step of what she feels like is obedience in the direction of Jesus. I just got in the water and we baptized her, you know, now she wanted to do it every summer, then that would definitely be something I would want to address. I'm like, no, baby, it worked okay, because now you're trying. You're kind of demeaning the grace of God. But I didn't want to. I didn't want to diminish what the spirit of God was doing in her life, in her growing relationship with Jesus. So if the person that believed the reason that I'm saved is because I got baptized, that's not believer's baptism. That's a workspace righteousness. So I would have to dig in with that person. But if they're like, no, that's not really what I believed afterwards, maybe I thought it because that's what I was taught. Now I don't think that then that would be more, I think a matter of the Conscience for that person.

[D]

Great answer.

[B]

I was baptized twice.

[D]

You don't even want to get me started. Okay, I will. I will confuse people if I start talking about my history.

[C]

I'll give you one more. I'll give you one more. When we go to Israel, we go to the Jordan and we baptize anybody that just wants to say they got dunked in the Jordan, like elders. I mean, these are Christians.

[D]

Yeah, for sure.

[C]

But it's cool, man. We're the Jordan, so we're not going to.

[B]

It's an affirmation of your baptismal.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Get to get in the waters where Jesus was.

[C]

Yeah, we do that. And that's what we say.

[B]

We're like, just like you would reenact maybe your marriage there.

[C]

I renew my vows at five years because my. My, the wedding was terrible. Like, remember Gretchen got sick and everything backwards, so.

[D]

Bro, that junk is so cold.

[C]

Oh, my God.

[D]

Anytime we're over there, it's cold.

[C]

It's the mountain runoff water from, like, where we are up in the Galilee. One of my. One of the funny things is Jonathan Christian was out there. And so it's usually like a couple pastors and a couple elders doing all the dunking. And then Jonathan Christian comes out, and I think one of us dunked him. And then he's going to dunk his wife. And, bro, once you get in, you just get numb. So you kind of. You can handle it. And I don't do cold water good. But he comes out and. And when his wife gets there, he just can't remember the words. And he's just like, dearly beloved. I was like, wrong ceremony, bro.

[D]

He said, I was. He was with me. He said, who is Jesus Christ? You said, Jesus Christ, my Lord and savior. He goes, I now pronounce you. Yeah, like, nope, that's the wrong one.

[B]

No portion of this broadcast to be reproduced without the express written consent of. It was you.

[D]

You're just so cold, man. Just get the words right. It's all you got.

[B]

You know, now when all these people are coming to John at the Jordan, you know, he becomes famous. Like, all the region were going out to him. So he's this. This almost like a freak show where he's this. Everybody's talking about it. Then the religious leaders come out, and he says these very strong words to them. How do you know that? How do you know why he said that? Like, where do you. So you said they had a critical. Where do you see that? What makes you think. I mean, I probably guess, but what do you think they were doing. What were they trying to do when they came out there?

[C]

Well, it's really. I don't have to. All I got to do is just look through the rest of the text and the heart behind it. Because Jesus knows the heart, so it doesn't take you very long. Over and over and over that they are critical of the miracles of God. Over and over and over. Who does he think he is to say he can forgive sin? Only God can forgive sin. They didn't say that out loud. They thought that and Jesus answered them. So that's how you know. Now there are some Pharisees that show up and they ask heartfelt questions. Like In John chapter 3, Pharisee Nicodemus is going to show up and be like, man, I got some questions. Can you help me understand this? And you'll notice like, Jesus doesn't beat him up. But dude, a critical. There's a key difference between a critical eye and mind. A critical eye is like, how can we make things better? That's cool. A critical mind is like the Bereans. They tested everything through the word of God. The Bible says test the spirits good. A critical heart is cancer to the church and cancer of any move of God. It robs you of all your joy. You think that you're the gatekeeper by which God can or cannot do what he wants to do. That's primarily what they were doing. Therefore they couldn't recognize Jesus.

[D]

I think part of the reason John the Baptist has says these things is because he knows them.

[C]

Very true.

[D]

He knows them. And he, he grew up in this very hyper religious culture. Even if he was raised in the desert, he, he was raised by highly educated people in the desert. If that was the story. If not, his dad worked at the temple. Worked at the temple. And so he is very clear on the system. He is very clear on the players. That's just in the natural. And then you add in the supernatural of that. He's just got eyes to see different than everybody else has got eyes to see because he's the forerunner to the Christ.

[C]

And you know, see, you can tell he's already had arguments with him because he's like, don't bring me this. I'm the son of Abraham.

[B]

Mm.

[C]

Well, they didn't even say anything yet.

[B]

Right.

[C]

And it's not like, like I, with great assurance I could say John the Baptist was well aware that they had kicked the Gentiles out of the Gentile court and they were fleecing God's people to line their own Pockets. And they have created a system using the name of God to abuse people. He knows this dude. You to call somebody a hypocrite and a brood of vipers who was a professional religious person, this is about as low as you can go. And then Jesus is going to double down on it and be like, yeah, your dad's the devil. And they're like, what are you talking about my dad? My dad is Abraham. He's like, nope, nope. Who?

[D]

I mean, it's one thing for John. Like, just think of it in context. It's like in my mind, it's like if John Piper calls somebody an apostate or a heretic, if, if John Piper goes after another preacher or professor or theologian, I got ears to hear. That's John Piper, okay? A first year Bible student in college putting up on his Twitter. So and so's an apostate or so. And so's a heretic or so. And so like that's what we're, we're talking about a pretty. John the Baptist is. Got all the moral, cultural, historical authority by which to be this person. You know what I mean? And so.

[C]

And Jesus is writing the forward to his book, right? He's like, this is the dude.

[D]

I mean, it's one thing. It is. It's actually a riot to think about. The greatest person ever born says you're the greatest person ever born, right? That's some inception stuff right there, man. That's like three layers of dream deep.

[C]

And, and John the Baptist mo is I must decrease and he must increase. Yeah.

[D]

We'll get to it when he's in prison. But that whole thing is like, it leaps in the womb and then he's in prison, about to get his head chopped off and he's like, are you, are you the one?

[C]

We'll get into it too.

[D]

Yeah, do it.

[C]

But my favorite part. So for those of you that will remember this. So Jesus is going to quote the scroll from Isaiah and he leaves one part out and the captives will be set free. So think about if you're John the Baptist, like, what did he say? He said the blind will receive sight.

[B]

He's like, yeah.

[C]

And the lame will walk. And the spirit of the Lord is Roman. He's like. And that's all he said. Wait, what? There's one more part? Yeah. And you're gonna die in prison.

[D]

One thing I was thinking about when you were talking about tonight. Baptized with holy Spirit and fire. And I thought you explained that as well as it could be explained, so great job. But the The When I was a kid, it's like story time with Brit tonight. But when I was a kid, I. We used to split a lot of wood on the farm where I grew up. My grandpa had this like, wood splitter that hooked up to the back of the tractor. And we'd spend hours out there just pulling the lever, splitting wood, picking it up, putting it back, splitting wood, putting up splitting wood. And when I remember when I was a little kid, my grandfather taught us how to make a fire. And there was all farmland. Some of it was our, some of it was others. And he's like, if you ever get lost, just start a fire. And I remember one time me and my cousin, we got lost and we were on somebody else's track of land and it's getting dark outside, and so we start a fire. And I'm like, I'm probably like 9 or 10 years old. I'm like, we're sleeping out here. Like, this ain't. This is not good. And you know how you just get panicked a little bit and so we start a fire and sure enough, I don't know, 30 minutes later, 45 minutes later, we see the headlights to my grandfather's truck because he can follow the smoke. And he said, this is why I always taught you boys, if you ever get lost, just start a fire. And I thought about that story tonight as you were talking about where the fire of the Holy Spirit is inside of someone, there's always going to be smoke. And the smoke is how you know that the fire is burning you tracking with the analogy. And I thought about that. I was just thinking a lot about that in regards of what it means to have been overthrown, indwelt with, overcome by the Holy Spirit. And it is no small thing that they use fire as the mental, the word picture to understand that your life is supposed to produce smoke. That if that's what it's going to do. So for what it's worth, that was. That's where I went while you were talking tonight.

[C]

Yeah, I as I, as I was studying it, I'm going to land in the both and not either or camp. That it is both about judgment and refinement. I do. He is talking about judgment like the wheat and chaff thing means some people going to heaven, some people going to hell. But as a believer in Jesus, I also know of the refiner's fire where he is so cool in those verses. He sits by the fire. That means he's holding you in it on purpose to burn away the things that don't look like him.

[B]

The way Paul talks about it, when he talks about everything will be tested with fire. It's almost like he's saying it's the same fire, but if you have Christ, you'll make it through it. You know what I mean? Like the works of your life, if they're made of hay, then you're gone.

[C]

Yep.

[B]

But if you're made of the precious metals, then you're going to come through the fire.

[D]

Doesn't Peter say. Did you say this tonight? Doesn't Peter say that the final judgment will be with fire?

[C]

Yeah, I think. Yeah, it. I didn't say that tonight. But yes, it is both. And I mean, it is. There is both a judgment aspect of this. But then again, you know, you go to the book of Revelation, there are multiple judgments.

[D]

Right.

[C]

So that, that's why I think it can be both. And like we, on the one hand, Jesus has paid it all, and on the other hand will be held account for every word. We say that there are rewards in heaven. You know, there's an accounting that we will have to give those kind of things. That's how it can be.

[B]

Both and mansion. How big is your mansion? Jewels in your crown's probably more appropriate. Pastor, I want to ask you about this because this. He'll baptize you with the Holy Spirit. There is a group of folks who would say, oh, the baptism of the Holy Spirit. It's this thing, you know, there's a whole theological belief system built around that. So what makes you. What. What do you see here that would maybe say that that's not really the way that it's written here?

[C]

Well, I think a part of it is the. Is the unfortunate transliteration of the Greek word baptizo. So immersed is what it means to dip, dunk, immerse, whether you're talking about in water or in the spirit. So Ephesians 1, it's either 13 and 14 or 14 and 15. It makes it very clear that when you surrender to Jesus, you get the Spirit, all right? In him. You also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel for your s. Of your salvation, and believed in him, you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit. So saved people get the Spirit. The problem is that second dose that people call the second baptism. You're not going to find what you do find in the. Especially in the book of Acts is saved people. And the phrases, they were filled with the Holy Spirit. So, dude, there. There are for sure times. Well, the way I said it tonight is you don't need more of the Holy Spirit. The question is, does he have all of you? And we are praying for a filling of that deposit in us that we could. That we could walk in his power, that we could hear his voice better, that we could be surrendered in areas that we didn't realize, you know. And I think the Pentecostal group that teaches a second baptism gets very confused. Honestly, I'm not trying to throw shade, but it's because they get too hung up on the English words instead of looking at what the Greek means. So once you are saved, once you put your faith in Jesus, you are sealed by the Holy Spirit, he is deposited in you, and that never goes away. The rest of your life, you're trying to declutter with the help of the Holy Spirit so that you are more surrendered to Him. And I think we should be praying for, yearning for the full expression of whatever spiritual gifts God has given us. Another thing, it gets really bad teaching when some of the. Some Pentecostal teaching and charismatic teaching is if you don't have the gift of tongues, like tongues is evidence of salvation. Nowhere do you see that in the Bible. What's actually evidence of the Spirit is evangelism, that you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, and you will be my witnesses. That's what you see at Pentecost, too. And then also in the script New Testament, there's three. What we just call tongues is. There's three different versions of that. There's what happened on the day of Pentecost called Glossolalia, where Peter is speaking in his own language and people are hearing it in another language. So that's one section. Then there's what Paul refers to as groaning of the Spirit. This is like Romans, chapter eight, right? You don't know what to pray. And there's the groaning of the Spirit. But then Paul talks specifically about that in First Corinthians, where the third kind of section of speaking in tongues is before the Scriptures are canonized, God would like download a word to people, and they would speak it in a language that was not understandable by man. And then other people would interpret it. And in public, particularly public worship gatherings, if there is not an interpretation that has been okayed by the elders, that is not supposed to happen. So the worship leader up there just haba yahba, yahba is not supposed to do that. Paul is 1 Corinthians 14. The whole chapter is dedicated to it. Be better to speak one word in a language. If you prophesy in one word than to say 10,000 words that only angels can understand. Now that is fine in your private prayer closet or with the kind of group where everybody there is a believer and you have an understanding that this private, this person is going to pray in that way. And so, but in English we just say tongues, right? Do you believe in speaking in tongues? What do you tell me what you mean, define what you mean. And I'm going to tell you what the Bible prescribes in regards to worship.

[B]

Yeah. He makes it prominent that it is for the upbuilding of the body. Like that's what should be your highest value is to build up the believers around you. And unfortunately, I think a lot of people, it's more like a cathartic experience that they're not thinking about what other people are going to experience. It's like, I know it has to just, you know, yeah.

[C]

And that is best, that's backwards either in a group of like minded believers that have a similar understanding where that is not going to be a distraction or privately between you and the Lord.

[D]

And you also said, well, anything beyond one person, even that, even the gift, any gift practiced that could be practiced individually in the prayer closet or anywhere else is meant to edify.

[C]

Correct.

[D]

And then every gift practiced in any version of corporate is meant to edify, never to confuse, never to draw away from. And so edification is the point of the gifts that are given. And then there's also the like. Call them gifts, call them what you want, offices, appointments, the shepherding, the apostle, the preacher, the, you know, you know what I'm saying? And those things are meant for the stewardship of the church as the church edifies and exhorts each other in the Gospel.

[C]

So yeah.

[B]

You said earlier, I want to just point it out that just because you have the Spirit when you're saved doesn't mean there's not more we should try to seek for. Because Paul says in Ephesians 3 as he's praying for the church, that they would be filled with all the fullness of God. Amen. And he wants us to keep in step with the Spirit. So, so it's not like, well, you have all the spirit when you're saved. So I just, you know, sort of sit back. No, no, you can lean in like you're saying, make yourself more available.

[C]

Paul even says in Corinthians, he's like, you should yearn to experience the gifts of the Spirit and especially tongues. He says, but prophecy is more important. So I, I, I do think especially like if you grew up with in a church tradition like Baptist, Presbyterian, some Methodists, all that stuff that did not lean into the gifts of the Spirit, then we are also missing something when we're trying to qualify. Why, oh no, I'm good. God does have more for you. There's more of him to experience in your own personal. As you live out your life, that is abundant life that you're hearing from the Good shepherd, you're more surrendered to him. And this is why repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. So where do we need to repent? Not just from sin, but from stupid. So that we can be more aligned with Christ. So that we can again, not so we can get more Holy Spirit, so that he can have more of us.

[B]

Right. Yeah. The joke is, right, that the. For many churches, it's the Father, Son and the Holy Scriptures.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, the forgotten God. We're almost out of time, but I want to close. Just asking you to talk a bit more about if Jesus didn't need to get baptized, why did he do it? You know, and then what does that mean for us? And then maybe encourage people to get baptized if they haven't.

[C]

I do believe that he is setting for us an example, just like he did when he dressed himself as a servant and it was for righteousness sake. Not so that he would be right for before God, but so that he would identify with the sinner in our place to declare this is what a right standing with God looks like. And then just a Christian, it's not just you should, you must not for salvation, but if he is your Lord. And the last thing he tells us is therefore go and make disciples baptizing them. Okay. When you became a disciple, did you get baptized? He said, that is the Great Commission. That's what we are to do. One of the. I didn't make the sermon. It's going to come up at some point. I actually heard Willie talking about this Willie Robertson. He may have talked about it here. If, if I were to ask somebody, are you a Christian? And they were to say, well, of course I am. I go to church, I listen to you preach every week. I read my Bible. Of course I'm a Christian. It'd be like if somebody said to me, are you a football player? Like, I love football. I watch all the games. I read the playbook, I'm a big fan. I'm not a football player. I'm not playing football. I'm just kind of football adjacent. There's a lot of like Christian adjacent people and they're not doing the thing. They're not actually running the plays. They're not making disciples. So you got to really look in the mirror and be like, I mean, there's a big difference between, you know, the fan in the stands and the player on the field. And a big point of this is we are supposed to be like John the Baptist. What part of your life intersects with the Great Commission? Honest goodness. If you're bringing your first and best, you are participating in the disciple making efforts of the Lord first year. If you know when you worship, you are participating. When you invite your one more. That's what I mean. Just to show up and observe other people play the game does not mean you're a gamer.

[B]

Right. Can I ask one more practical similar to his list? Because this comes up. Let's say somebody says, oh, I want to get baptized, but I'm waiting for my nana to be here in September. Or like, what. What would you say about the timing of baptism?

[C]

Or call that intent?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

There was a guy that led to Christ to the gym and. And I was like, dude, beach baptism's coming up or whatever. Saturated. I think we're saturated. Saturated is coming up. And then he comes back to me. He's like, I want all of my friends to see me profess Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. So can we do it at a later date? That is the actual intent, you know, so if he got hit by a bus between the end, he's going to heaven. He put his faith in Jesus. He's trying to do the thing. Like, if I'm going public with my faith, going public in front of strangers and going public in front of my friends that cannot believe I'm attending church right now are two. We're talking about two different things. So we actually redid our whole services to baptize this guy in front of his friends because that's when they could be here. I think that intent is right, but the. The soonest you can, generally speaking, is when you should get baptized.

[B]

Is it wrong if it's private?

[C]

What do you mean by private? There needs to be a public. I mean. Philip baptized Ethiopian eunuch. I don't know if there's more people there, but it needs to be public in nature. Yeah. Yes, but. But it does not have to be. I mean, nowhere in the Bible can I find I see disciples by baptizing disciples. Not, you know, like, it doesn't just have to be me. I actually try to baptize as few people as I can because people make a big deal. About me baptizing them, and I don't want to play that game. So our guy, Bo Bozard at Bozard Ford, he runs a Bible study there. It's incredible. He is living out the Great Commission. They got a couple dozen people that show up. They had. They were going to do baptism at Bozard Ford with the full support of 1122, and he had one person signed up, and they ended up baptizing a bunch more than that. And so let's go. Yeah, we like. So when the Ethiopian eunuch asked, here's water. What hinders me from being baptized, the implicit answer is nothing. Not you didn't go to a class. We think the class is helpful so that you can answer your questions and you know what you're doing. Not well. I want to get baptized in the ocean, not there. You should just check your intent. You just want to be obedient to what Christ has told you to do. Great.

[B]

Anything you want to add?

[D]

Amen.

[B]

All right, well, that's it. Let's pray that a lot of people get baptized in this season.

[C]

Yeah. Father in heaven. Lord, we just pray for an outpouring of obedience from people that have surrendered to you, God. We pray for an outpouring of the Holy Spirit that more people would come to know you. God, we thank you that we are saved by grace, through faith. It's not by works that we don't bring any merit to the equation, but we just need you to save us. And then God, may we boldly proclaim that we reject and renounce all allegiances to our flesh and this world or anything dark. And we proclaim Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. Amen. Thank you for listening to the podcast the End. You nailed it.

[A]

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