What Jesus’ Miracles Are Really Pointing To - Matthew S3E1

Summary

Podcast Summary: Deepen with Pastor Joby Martin

Episode: What Jesus’ Miracles Are Really Pointing To (Matthew S3E1)

Date: March 23, 2026
Host: Pastor Joby Martin
Special Guest: Pastor Oni (originally from Botswana, on staff at Church of Eleven22)

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Overview

This episode dives deep into the miracles of Jesus as recorded in Matthew’s Gospel, specifically focusing on what they reveal about the kingdom of God and Jesus’ purpose. Through thoughtful exposition and lively discussion, Pastor Joby Martin, Pastor Oni, and their team explore the link between Jesus’ teachings and actions, the theological underpinnings of healing and restoration, and the ever-present call for believers to embrace a deeper relationship with God. The conversation traverses biblical history, the fulfillment of Old Testament law, practical faith today, and personal experiences with the miraculous.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. From Teaching to Action in Matthew

• Transition in Matthew’s Gospel (04:27–06:46)
  • Matthew’s structure moves from Jesus’ teaching with authority (the Sermon on the Mount) into action—His miracles.
  • Quote [05:45, Pastor Joby]:
    “Miracles always have a message. They're never random. He's not just flexing… So part of the thing you should try to look through in the miracles is what does this say about the kingdom of heaven?”
• The miracles demonstrate the authority of Jesus and are the fulfillment of Old Testament messianic prophecy.

2. Jesus’ Miracles: Compassion and Restoration

• Healing the Leper: More Than Physical (07:15–10:16)

  • Context on the social and spiritual isolation of lepers paralleled with today’s brokenness and loneliness.
  • Quote [09:43, Pastor Oni]:
    “When Jesus touches him, it's not just a healing of body... the touching also communicates a healing of identity, a human dignity if you will.”

• The act of touching affirms the leper’s worth and foreshadows a wider restoration.

• Restoration to Community and Theology from Leviticus (10:35–13:38)

  • Old Testament rituals in Leviticus (two birds, scarlet thread, blood, and oil) are seen as a blueprint pointing to Christ’s finished work.
  • Quote [12:23, Pastor Joby]:
    “Leviticus 14 is another picture of the verdict comes before the performance... gospel lights flashing all over the place.”

• Inclusiveness of God’s Grace (13:58–15:16)

  • God’s atonement is accessible to all, regardless of status or ability to pay—a foreshadowing of the gospel.

3. Authority, Obedience, and Lordship

• Jesus’ Authority and Submission (16:16–18:19)
  • Jesus upholds the temple system until the new covenant is fulfilled.
  • The importance of obedience to God’s ways, even in things we don’t understand.
  • Quote [19:04, Pastor Joby]: “If you have to understand why before you do, you are not obeying. You are asking God to convince you… If you don't trust God, you're not saved.”

4. Faith of the Outsider: The Roman Centurion

• A Model of Faith and Authority (21:10–23:35)

  • The centurion’s perspective as a man under authority resonates with Jesus.
  • Quote [22:16, Pastor Joby]:
    “In fact, I know who you are, and I know who I am in light of who you are... I need you.”

• Jesus marvels at the faith that humbly recognizes his authority, regardless of religious background.

  • Quote [23:34, Pastor Oni]:
    “But you will bow… The question is, Lord of what? He’ll either be Lord of your salvation… or the Lord of your judgment.”

• The Global Scope of Salvation (24:31–32:36)

  • Jesus’ miracles and teachings affirm God’s heart for all nations.
  • Firm rejection of “replacement theology”; emphasizing “grafted-in” biblical language.

5. Miracles, Demonic Oppression, and the Realities of the Fall

• Spiritual and Physical Realms Intertwined (33:12–35:27)

  • The Gospels frequently pair physical sickness and demonic oppression.
  • All suffering and sickness, at minimum, are collateral damage of the fall.

• Bitterness, Responsibility, and Spiritual Warfare (35:31–41:10)

  • Bitterness and unforgiveness ferment and manifest physically and spiritually.
  • Quote [36:27, Pastor Oni]:
    “You're drinking your own poison, hoping other people are going to die.”
  • God calls for personal responsibility and repentance, regardless of circumstances.

• The Slipperiness of Sin: What You Get Into, Gets Into You (39:30–41:10)

  • Sin entangles—examples include addiction, unforgiveness, and idolatry.
  • Quote [41:10, Pastor Joby]:
    “The moment you bet more than you thought you should… there's something in you. You got into it, it got into you.”

6. The Supernatural and the Authority of Jesus Recognized by Demons

• Demons Know Who Jesus Is (42:18–43:59)

  • Demons recognize and fear Jesus’s authority before religious leaders do.
  • Quote [42:42, Pastor Joby]:
    “They're playing in a different realm... There's no pretense here. They know who he is and they've known who he was since they got cast out like lightning, bro.”

• Miracles Disrupt the Status Quo (47:38–49:43)

  • Some prefer comfort over true change, even in the face of miracles.

7. The Awe of Miracles and Expectation

• Experiencing God’s Power: “Trembling Joy” (53:21–54:50)

  • The unmistakable awe that comes when God intervenes miraculously.
  • Quote [53:21, Pastor Oni]:
    “I think of it as trembling joy... there is this reverence of the supernatural, the God of the universe, and this joy that He. He does this. He enters into humanity…”

• Guarding Against Familiarity (54:50–56:03)

  • The challenge not to become numb to God’s constant work and testimony in the community.
  • Quote [54:50, Pastor Joby]: “We can get so close to it here and what God’s decided to do here that we can grow accustomed to what we should be in awe of.”

8. Encouragement in Waiting/Unanswered Prayers

• Healing May Not Always Look Like We Expect (56:52–60:58)

  • Not all prayers are answered as desired; some healing is immediate, some a process, some not until eternity.
  • Quote [59:51, Pastor Joby]:
    “All the healings and miracles are temporary besides salvation... If the motivation of your prayer for healing is comfort, you really want to check that.”
  • The ultimate healing and restoration is found in Christ’s presence, not just physical answers.

• The Power of Faithful Presence and Testimony (61:34–63:42)

  • Testimonies from those enduring hardship—such as a wheelchair-bound congregant—can be more impactful than dramatic healing.
  • Quote [63:42, Pastor Joby]:
    “Even if your only ministry is to encourage the pastor, not a lot of people get to do that ministry around here… God is marveling at you tonight and your ministry of faithfulness to just show up and want to be here.”

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Memorable Quotes & Highlights (with Timestamps)

• “Miracles always have a message. They're never random... So part of the thing you should try to look through in the miracles is what does this say about the kingdom of heaven?”
  — Pastor Joby [05:45]

• “When Jesus touches him, it's not just a healing of body... but the touching also communicates a healing of identity, a human dignity if you will.”
  — Pastor Oni [09:43]

• “Leviticus 14 is another picture of the verdict comes before the performance… gospel lights flashing all over the place.”
  — Pastor Joby [12:23]

• “If you have to understand why before you do, you are not obeying.”
  — Pastor Joby [19:04]

• “You will not bend your knee to Jesus until the need outpaces the ego. But when it does, you will.”
  — Pastor Joby [22:16]

• “But you will bow… The question is, Lord of what? He’ll either be Lord of your salvation… or the Lord of your judgment.”
  — Pastor Oni [23:34]

• “You're drinking your own poison, hoping other people are going to die.”
  — Pastor Oni [36:27]

• “What you started to get into began to get into you.”
  — Pastor Joby [41:10]

• “Demons were always the first to recognize Jesus for who he is, and the religious leaders are the last…”
  — Pastor Joby [43:59]

• “I think of it as trembling joy. There is this reverence of the supernatural, the God of the universe, and this joy that He does this.”
  — Pastor Oni [53:21]

• “We can get so close to it here… that we can grow accustomed to what we should be in awe of.”
  — Pastor Joby [54:50]

• “All the healings and miracles are temporary besides salvation.”
  — Pastor Joby [59:51]

• “Even if your only ministry is to encourage the pastor… God is marveling at you tonight and your ministry of faithfulness to just show up and want to be here.”
  — Pastor Joby [63:42]

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Notable Timed Segments

• Matthew’s Teaching/Action Structure: 04:27
• Healing the Leper & Identity: 06:46–09:43
• Leviticus and Ceremony Fulfilled in Christ: 10:35–13:38
• The Roman Centurion’s Faith and Authority: 21:10–23:35
• Bitterness and Responsibility: 35:31–38:41
• Supernatural Testimonies: 50:09–53:21
• Encouragement for Unanswered Prayer: 56:52–63:42

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Tone and Language

The conversation is candid, scripture-saturated, and pastoral—full of honesty, humility, and encouragement. The speakers mix biblical exposition with everyday language and humor, making profound truths accessible and relevant.

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Conclusion / Final Encouragement

• Healing is ultimately about knowing the Healer; miracles are meant to restore us to God and to community, not just provide comfort or spectacle.
• Faith is demonstrated in humble, obedient trust, even when we don’t understand or see immediate results.
• God’s kingdom is radically inclusive, and Jesus’s miracles prophetically point to the redemption of individuals and all nations—fulfilling the heart of God as revealed throughout scripture.
• Believers are exhorted not to grow numb to God’s work but to foster continual “trembling joy” at His presence and power.

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“Miracles always have a message. They're never random… look through in the miracles: what does this say about the kingdom of heaven?”
— Pastor Joby Martin [05:45]

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Transcript

[A]

Welcome to Deepen with Pastor Joby Martin. The Church of 1122 is a movement for all people to discover and deepen a relationship with Jesus Christ. And we're praying this message helps you deepen your relationship with him. Now let's dive in.

[B]

Well, Pastor Joby, we have the gospel mouth from way down south joining us.

[C]

I've never heard that one.

[D]

Me either. You just made it up, but I like it.

[B]

Welcome. Pastor on.

[D]

Hey. So there's a lot of people that listen to Deepen that don't listen to the sermons. Really? Oh, gosh. A lot.

[C]

Oh, wow.

[D]

Which is great. No problem. They just like the discussion around the scriptures and they are. They belong to a church and you know what I mean?

[B]

So great.

[D]

The reason we do this is to take the sermon and go deeper. You don't necessarily have to have it, but whatever.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

So there may not be people. I know oni's been on here before, but on. Tell us a little bit of who you are, how you got here.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Etc. I mean, you're a big deal around 11:22 now.

[C]

You're too kind. I don't. Yeah. My name is on. And originally from Botswana, so most people don't know where that is. So I start by saying, you know where South Africa is? It's on the southern tip of the African continent. The country directly north of South Africa is Botswana. That's where I was born. Then my parents sent me to boarding school. That's how I ended up in South Africa and wasn't a Christian. Didn't grow up in the church, but got radically saved. I believe everybody who comes to Christ gets radically saved.

[B]

Amen.

[C]

In my second year of college, we call it university, got plugged into a campus ministry, graduated, and then decided to work for the campus ministry for four years. Then went into corporate, then got called to plant a church. We planted a church 11 years ago, my wife and I and a few others. And God did some incredible things, but in that planting, entered into a partnership with the church of 1122 because that's what we do and built some relationships. And then about five years ago, started a conversation of what it looked like to come here and be a part of the team. And as God leads us into the next initiative, I'm excited about that and how I can contribute to that.

[D]

And so a part. Big reason I invited you to be a part of Deepin on a more regular basis is one is, you know the Bible really well. I mean, look at your Bible. That does not happen by accident. Or maybe your kids got crayons stored up, but I'm thinking the latter, not the former. Also, you have preached here and will be preaching more.

[C]

Yes, sir.

[D]

And so for our 1122ers, I just want them to get to know you more and more and more and more.

[C]

Thank you. And it's. It's a privilege. I just want to say that. I want to say thank you to you, the elders leadership team here. It's. It's one I don't take for granted. To teach God's word, firstly is. Is man. It's a big. It's a big deal, and I want to honor God. And then to serve our incredible community is.

[D]

Well, it's selfish. I mean, I'm not doing you any favors, bro. I. I didn't. This isn't charity at all. I'm. I am selfish for this church, you know, and. And I'd heard you. I've heard you preach conferences and stuff, and it's great, or I would never have invited you to come to Saturated when you weren't able to, because Covid sucks. But even the first time you preached here, I leaned over to my team, and I was like, all right, give me the preaching calendar. Somebody's getting less. Seriously, because you're that good. And then even, like, if you haven't seen the bumper video of the recap, bro, the bumper. Your videos are better than the whole sermons. It's incredible. Just receive it. And then also, man, yada. Like Tanya annis, who runs 1825. I saw that you preach there, and so that was fun. I just want our folks not to just be mesmerized by the gift you have, But I want them to know you a little bit, because we don't have preachers. We have pastors and pastors, shepherd people. And so this would be a great way for people to get to know you, hear from you.

[C]

Thank you.

[D]

So you'll be back on here?

[C]

Yes, sir.

[D]

Sorry you have to stay up so late, but.

[C]

No, no, it's good. Love it. Love it.

[B]

Pretty good preacher. Good preacher, better guy, a better dad, and great friend.

[C]

Thank you.

[B]

So get to know Pastor on, because it's well worth your time.

[D]

No doubt.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

Pastor Joby. We moved from a huge teaching section in Matthew to now a lot of action. And so I want to talk about why you think Matthew structured it that way. You know, it made me think when. When Tim Tebow was here, he said a phrase that stuck with me. He said, the gospel is declared and demonstrated. And so I thought maybe it had something to do with that.

[D]

But that is exactly it. The coming Messiah, as promised in the all throughout the Old Testament, from Genesis 3 on, that he was going to come in power. And a part of what Matthew is now saying is Jesus began to teach, repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. So miracles always have a message. They're never random. He's not just flexing. He's not just doing stuff. Never is he sitting with his disciples. He's like, look what I can do. And he levitates everybody or, you know, like spells their name and their Cheerios or anything like that. So every. So part of the thing you should try to look through in the miracles is what does this say about the kingdom of heaven?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Luke, another gospel writer, when he's writing Acts, the very first line of it is in the first book, O Theophilus, act. I have dealt with all that Jesus began to do and teach. And that has. That has stuck with me as well, you know, that Jesus was not just one of these gurus who said, I have these nice ideas. You know, it was. It was backed by a lot of action.

[C]

Yeah, well, I mean, it's. It's coming out of Matthew 7. We see that the people are astonished because he speaks with authority, but now we see that he also acts with authority. And that tells us a lot about Jesus, is that he's his words and his deeds, you cannot separate them. And it says a lot about then how we are to respond to that, you know? So I. I love the flow of how Matthew puts it. He's like, okay, you've heard him speak with this authority. Now watch him work.

[B]

It seems like we talk about the chosen a lot on here, but the leper, the scene with the leper is one of the first episodes of season one of the Chosen. And what got me is that when Jesus walks up to the guy, the people with him are like, yep. Yeah, like, he's gotta go over there, talk to him, you know, crazy.

[D]

So.

[B]

So we don't really have a category for the taboo that it would have been.

[D]

Yeah. But as I was writing this, the thing that I think there's a lot of people that feel like the leper.

[C]

That's good.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Like, they're divorced and they're. They're lonely and hurting and isolated, or they're single and lonely, you know, and like, Lord, I mean, marriage is your idea, and I just want a companion. And they're lonely and they feel like they're disconnected or people have had some church hurt. You Know, and so they're. They've distanced themselves from the corporate worship of God and they.

[C]

And.

[D]

And just give them the benefit of the doubt, and maybe somebody did some very terrible things to them, you know, and so there are a lot of people that feel unclean and separated and distant from God and from people. And Jesus is coming after you.

[B]

Yeah, Well, I mean, just the way that it's written, you know, we were, we were talking about this a few minutes ago that the phrasing in the ESP is a little bit weird, like, lord, if you will. You know, like nobody says, if you will open the door for me or whatever. But when Jesus says, I will. Another way, another way to read it if I'm right, it's just like, are you willing? And he says, I am willing.

[D]

Yeah. I think it's more like, if you will, not like, would you please? He's not saying, would you please. Yeah, he's saying, if this is in alignment with your purposes, you can heal me. It's a declaration. It's a statement of faith even more than it is like a request.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And I love it that when Jesus touches him, it's not just a healing of body. It's not just a physical healing, but the touching also communicates a healing of identity, a human dignity, if you will. We're going to get to it in a couple weeks. But very similar to when Jesus heals, the woman who is bleeding has the issue of bleeding, you know, for 12 years. And it's. It's that Jesus is going, I'm not just here for the physical. There's something that I want to shift in you that I want to heal. And it's an identity thing, you know, so it's, it's, it's powerful. Like, we've just prayed for people and looking into people's eyes, like, as they tell you what's going on and. And praying for them. There is. There is a humanness there. There is a man. You are made in the image of God, and God loves you.

[D]

And nobody came into my line proud. Everybody came broken. And when your need exceeds your ego, you will kneel before him and say, if you will, you can help. Yeah. But if your ego is too big, then your pride will keep you from that.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And I think it speaks so much that he. He touched him, right. And it wasn't like, hey, go to the priest and then come back and I'll give you a little. A hug.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, he touched him first. He entered into it.

[D]

There's so Much there.

[B]

So much. I really loved. We could spend a lot of time on this. I really loved that. You know, we kind of knock on Leviticus, but what you. What you unpacked from Leviticus 14 is incredible. And to talk. Let's talk more about the restoration to community that Jesus is pointing at.

[D]

Yeah, like, when God heals you, man, he immediately connects you to. To the faith, family, to the church in the New Testament.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Like to God's people. Here's the thing, dude. The Levitical priest, I don't. They. I mean, I know. I don't know that they knew all that they were doing. Like, when you see this through the lens of the empty tomb, you're like, you gotta give me a break. So you're gonna sacrifice. There's two birds, and you're gonna sacrifice a bird. And then you're gonna take this scarlet thread, literally a scarlet thread, and then you're gonna wrap it around the good bird and you're gonna dip it in the blood. And the blood of the sacrifice via the scarlet thread covers the other one. And then this is to declare this man is cleansed of leprosy. Now go take a bath. That sure does sound like the blood of Jesus has covered my sin. I'm going to get baptized. Then you get to participate in the day of atonement. Not on the day of atonement. How about that?

[C]

Wow.

[D]

They make a sacrifice of atonement. Normally it was reserved just on the day of atonement, but for you, because you are restored back unto the Lord, we're going to give you your own special day of atonement. And the priest makes an atoning sacrifice, sheds the blood of the lamb and then takes the blood. And I had to dig in on this right earlobe, right thumb, right toe. And you're like, all right, that's got to me. It can't be random. God's not a random God. Then you wash it off with the oil that represents the spirit of God. And then you anoint them with oil and you declare clean. And so what you're saying, dude, honestly, Leviticus 14 to run over by the grace train.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

When you run over by the grace train changes everything about everything about everything. It's going to change the way you hear and heed the word of God. Now you get, so what makes the temple the temple and the synagogue? The synagogue is the word. Like, you go to the synagogue because they do the word. And you didn't get to go to the synagogue because you were declared unclean. And they didn't want everybody to get leprosy. And so now every time you go to synagogue and they open up that scroll and they read, you have ears to hear and do and heed and you get to put your hands to work now, but you're not going to work for you. You're going to work for the kingdom. And then your feet, may you walk the path that God has laid out that you should walk. So this redemption is going to change everything about everything, about everything. Now what they didn't do is say, okay, you're on a 90 day trial. And if you hear and if you work and if you walk, then come back and we're going to insert you into the community. This, Leviticus 14 is another picture of the verdict comes before the performance. This is, this is. You can't read this without just gospel lights flashing all over the place.

[B]

Yeah, man, you said several things in the sermon. When you're healed, you serve. When you're healed, you're restored to the community. You know, one of the things that is kind of the, a hidden gem in a lot of these Old Testament instructions is there's usually a place that says, and if you can't afford that.

[D]

Yep.

[B]

Here's a cheaper version, 100% because nothing should, should be able to hold you back.

[C]

Correct.

[B]

From being able to.

[D]

So if you can't afford the lamb for your atonement, you can do pigeons, right?

[C]

Yeah, I love that. And I love how it's, I mean, it's atonement and then anointed. So which speaks to what you're saying. It's like you, you don't come and perform first and then, but then just the. I love it when you, you know, do the biblical theology thing and show us that like, hey, Jesus is everywhere. So I can imagine them seeing Jesus and, and as it begins to click, like slowly as he's doing all the things, it's like, oh, that's what that means. That. So Leviticus 14, I wrote it down when you mentioned it. And then you go to, I mean, that's the cleansing and then being restored to community. Then if you jump over to Leviticus, Leviticus 16, well, that's the cleansing of the people. And then we kind of being restored to God. So now he's going individual, then the people of God, the nation. And so when Jesus shows up, he's going, well, I'm doing a cleansing for the whole world. And if you read Hebrews 10:10, then it's like, oh, and, and this one is forever because they would have done it every year. But he, Jesus comes and goes, no, no. When, When I'm done. It's done.

[D]

Yeah. When John the Baptist declares, behold the Lamb of God who comes to take away the sin of the entire world. Bro. As a. So what a Jewish person would have heard is like, hold on. Not another lamb of God that covers the sin of the Jewish people until next year. They're like, sort of. But just up all of those to infinity. Not another lamb, the Lamb of God who comes to take away, not cover the sin of everyone who believes, not just the Jewish person. And that happens forever. Not cover. Not until this time next year.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

That declaration is incredible.

[C]

Oh, it's amazing. It should change the way that we, as we continue through the book of Matthew, how we see especially the, the miracles, that it's not just Jesus being compassionate. And he is. But these are prophetic signs.

[D]

Correct.

[C]

That are constantly pointing to the fulfillment of what he had come to do.

[D]

Also, they are still under the temple system.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

That mountain has not been moved yet because it is not finished yet. And so not only is Jesus a man under authority, as you get into the Roman guard, not only is he under God's authority, but he's still choosing to operate under the authority that God has put in place, which is the priestly system. And even though this man, he's not going to be any more healed when he goes, since he's the priest, that's good. He's healed, but he's like, this is how God is working this until I come out of this grave. And that when that curtain tears, the new covenant is in full effect, but it is not in full effect yet. So go and show yourself. And then I also think, though, I think Jesus is poking the bear a little bit.

[B]

Yeah, right.

[D]

The praise. Like, the priests are going to have to deal with this. Not just, gosh, a lot of people are going to the Jesus show because he's such a good teacher, but what are we going to do about this healed man? Because we can't deny this. And he was like, go. Because now the priest is going to have to participate in the miracle of Jesus. Got to sacrifice animals, got to do the earlobe, right thumb, right toe thing. He's got to wash it off. He's got to proclaim this man that was healed by Jesus cleansed. And then when that guy, every time that guy shows back up to the temple, the priest is like, oh, it's you again.

[C]

Yeah, I remember you.

[D]

Right.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And it makes me think of another parallel because it's talking about. You were talking about being restored to community. You know, he didn't. He was already healed. So still go through all these things. The people, for the people who say, oh, I'm saved. Why do I need to go to church? Why do I need to be in the disciple group? You know, well, you're not going to get more saved by being the disciple group, but do it, you know, it's the way that God has ordained and designed for you to engage with the family of God.

[D]

The reason is because God said so.

[B]

Right.

[D]

And if you're saved, you want to do what God says.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Now, as you're doing it, if you want to understand, I'm happy to give you all the verses. I'm happy to take you to one body, many parts in first Corinthians. And a disconnected body part is going to shrivel up and die. I'm happy to take you to first Peter 5. And the devil prowls around like roaring lion. And Ryan's always take out the isolated one. I'm happy to take you to the, to Jesus's high priestly prayer in John 17 where he says, May, may they be one. Like, we're one. Well, you can't be a disconnected one. Jesus isn't disconnected. He. He, he is. There's one God in three persons. Like, in essence, they are one. So I'm happy to explain all the theology as you walk into in obedience. But if you have to understand why before you do, you are not obeying.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

You were asking God to convince you and, and you were putting the onus on him. Like, you better explain yourself. Like, I know that people say it's not good parenting to tell your kids because I said so, but that is a valid answer.

[C]

100.

[D]

Right. And if you feel like you always have to explain to your now, it is a good idea to connect for you, correct all that stuff. Okay. But sometimes you just say, what? What if you don't trust me, this ain't gonna work. Yeah. And if you don't trust God, you're not saved.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Pistuo means trust.

[B]

Yeah. At some point, the pushback and the questions indicate something about lordship.

[D]

Listen, it's not submission until you don't like it.

[B]

Right.

[D]

It's not. It's submission when you're like, I'd rather not, but I trust that your ways are better than my ways. So I'm going to do what you say. So, like, take the money thing. This is why people. I mean, dude, I don't know how you can be the Lord of your money and say that Jesus is the Lord of your life. You can't. And if you need it all explained to you in order to do it, then you're saying that you're in charge, that you are preeminent.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. It's one of the reasons when I, you know, if I stand up and preach or teach, I always. My prayers are relatively the same. Um, it's not because I lack creativity, but it's. I need to be reminded that God sits on his throne and that he is fully in control and that he is good, like, and those, those exist in him, like, that is who he is. And, and so it boils down to a lack of trust. It's like, I don't. I don't trust that he's really gonna do this or come through or, you know, and it's. That's a massive issue. That being aware of that is a big deal.

[B]

So you have a bunch of taboo groups that Jesus is interacting with here. First a leper, then we have a Roman centurion, and then later we're going to have demon possessed crazy guys. But with, with the Roman centurion.

[D]

Sounds like 1122.

[B]

With the Roman centurion. Here's. Here's the thing that it's always stuck out to me as I read this. When he says, I too, am a man under authority, I'm like, don't you mean with authority?

[D]

But he says, people in authority never talk that way.

[B]

Right.

[D]

I'm a man. Not humble. Not humble people.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

He's saying, I know how it works.

[D]

Right? Yeah. Because he's not the Caesar. He has a boss too, right?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So this is one of those occasions where Jesus is amazed. So why was Jesus so amazed with this guy?

[D]

He marveled at his faith. I honestly think tonight, for the people that overcame all the whispers in the seats, and we're like, dang it, I'm gonna go forward. What's my wife gonna think? What are my friends gonna think? How. I mean, I'm gonna have to go up there and say, hey, I got this. I think Jesus is marveling at that kind of humility, because ultimately this centurion comes to Jesus, submits and says, lord, here's what he's not saying. Do you know who I am? He's saying, in fact, I know who you are, and I know who I am in light of who you are, and I've got money. He would have been rich, dude. And I got power, and it can do nothing to help this Person that I love, I need you. And so you will not bend your knee to Jesus until the need outpaces the ego. But when it does, you will. And if you wait until it's all said and done, then you will, because it's going to show up in power and you're going to hit your face. And you can bow, or you could bow. Here's the thing. Every knee will bow. Everyone on earth and under the earth will declare that Jesus is Lord. The question is, lord of what? He'll either be Lord of your salvation, and if you bow now, when you bow, then he'll lift you up to a new heavens and a new earth. If you refuse to bow now, you will bow then, and he will be the Lord of your judgment. I mean, that's it. You're either going to be a testimony of the grace of God or the justice of God.

[C]

Wow.

[D]

But you will bow.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah. Me, the centurion. Also, it's a recognition of, you know, the centurion looking at Jesus and saying, you are coming with the full weight and power of the one that commissioned you. Like, I. I think you're looking at the centurion, this Gentile who. He didn't grow up in the temple. He. He doesn't. Didn't grow up reading the Torah. He didn't. But he. He looks at Jesus and he goes, lord, and the one who comes with the full weight and power. So the Father sends the Son, the Son sends the Spirit. Like, it's just the. The order of how all of this works. And so when we, as. I mean, we go all the way to Matthew 28 is like, all authority has been given to me. And then go. So we're going with that authority. It's. We are under authority. But then do we understand the. The one who has commissioned us?

[D]

We rarely walk in it. We're going to get in this. This fall. But like, and Pastor Brit and I have talked about this a lot before. He just talked about it on the neighbors podcast with Ally. But, like, when Peter declares that Jesus is the Christ, the son of the living God, it's the first real time you see Peter submit to the authority of Jesus. Truly, you know the response to that, Then Jesus is like, cool, here's the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. I am handing you the authority that I have in the Great Commission. Jesus says, all authority in heaven and earth has been given unto me. Now I'm going to give it to you. So you go be about what I have come here to be about, which is make disciples of all peoples, teaching them to obey everything I've commanded you. Baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit. And I got good news. I'm going to be with you. So, you know when. When the US Sends a representative, they are America. Like, they're coming under the authority of the government of America. And what they say goes as if all three branches of government were sitting in that office with them. It's that kind of thing. And they're an ambassador. We are called in Corinthians, ambassadors, or viceroy is a old school term of Christ. And we make an appeal on his behalf.

[B]

This is true of many ancient cultures. But to my understanding, the Romans would have had a pretty. It would have come. It would have been. I get it. The image bearer thing.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Because wherever a Caesar would conquer, there would be a statue put up. And this, it indicates this is ruled by Caesar. Because my image is there.

[D]

Correct.

[B]

And he, that centurion would have had certain images on his armor or his shield or his helmet. And it was like, no, I'm coming with the authority. The weight behind it. It's kind of like when you're in a position of leadership, like as a pastor, you're in an office, and it means that you have the weight of that. That same kind of authority. So maybe that's why I computed for him. I don't know. Something that's confused me a little bit, and I'm not sure. They probably don't conflict, but whenever Jesus in the Gospels marvels at a person's faith, it makes my brain go a little bit like. But he gives us the faith. Like, if faith is a gift from him, why would he then marvel at it? You know what I mean? Like, I'm not sure if that. Do you think that. Does that sound. Does that sound a little bit.

[D]

Well, he's not. We think marvel. We think surprised. We think like, wow, I didn't know you could do that. So I think it's different. The lights in. Relishes the moment. I mean, the. The initial thing comes to mind. Man, I watched JP play baseball when he was 10 or something. He'd smack one to the fence and I would marvel at him. Well, physically, he is a product of me and Gretchen. We gave him all that he has. Right. And then I coached him his whole life. But I am delighting in that moment where he is exercising the skills that he has and the work that he has put in, you know what I mean? And he's my son. It's kind of like that, like, wow. And then he's also, dude, this is straight back to what I said at the very beginning. The whole point of Matthew is that Jesus came to do what Israel dropped the ball on.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

And so Jesus is like, look, he's got it. If you all had the faith of this guy, you'd have it too. And then Jesus doubles down. He's like, there's people coming from the east and west. Dude, that west is us. We are almost direct. Jacksonville is almost directly west of where this thing happened. I mean I got out like the Latin latitude longitude map and was traced it over. It's a little bit north of us, but it is dang close, you know. And Jesus is saying there's all kind of people. So everybody east of Capernaum and everybody west. All the peoples are going to be gathered at table with Abraham and Isaac, Jacob, Jesus including and especially the Gentiles that put their faith in Jesus. And then the warning, bro, I mean this would help. Like, I've never, honestly I've never really studied Matthew this way because I've always, I've never taught the whole thing. So I didn't put the lenses on of like. Well, the whole point is Jesus is the greater Moses and Jesus is the greater Israel. Repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Dude, the warning here is like the sons of the kingdom. And it's a lowercase K right there. Like y' all think you're in because your birth certificate and you're going to hell if you don't humble yourself like the centurion does and call me Lord, you're out. The, the modern day application is to the church. Church people don't go to heaven. People then submitted their lives to Christ do. There's no, It's a single file line. Like he saves first names, not last names.

[C]

It's good.

[B]

And doesn't he later. I think this is Matthew. He even says this was even true of the Old Testament that you brag about like, yeah, other nations came and gave all this, you know, credit and attributes to Solomon and David and all the splendor there. And he's like, they saw it, but you don't see it. And something greater is here.

[D]

It's actually the point. The whole, you know, back to Genesis 12, right. I'm going to bless you and through you the whole, every family will be blessed. And by the time Jesus shows up and we're going to get there, you know, in the fall. And he. I mean, man. In Mark 11, he rolls into the tribal entry, and first thing he does is go check out the temple. And they have kicked the Gentiles out of the Gentile court. And that's where they're fleecing God's people in the name of God to line their own pockets. And he is ticked. He curses the fig tree. This is where he says, by the way, he says, jesus answered, have faith in God. You say to this mountain, move. So he's not talking about random mountains. He's talking about Mount Zion. He's like, look, after this weekend, this whole mountain, you don't even need it anymore. I'm about to move this whole mountain. Have faith in me and you'll be made right with God. You don't have to kill lambs anymore. Like, they've missed the whole point. So what if you can move a mountain? I mean, neat. Yeah, but so what if you can make a mountain move? Literally, and then what. But what Jesus is about to do on that mountain is to fulfill the law and the scriptures. He's going to satisfy the justice of God on our behalf, and it's going to change your entire eternity. That's the faith that moves.

[B]

Mountain.

[D]

It's not like I got a mountain of problems. I need you to. That's not what it is. You're missing the point. Yeah, it's like Jesus moved the mountain.

[B]

What's your mountain?

[D]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

This has always been at the heart of God. Like, that's the thing is sometimes people will read the New Testament and they'll go, oh, this is a new idea that, you know, that's why God wants everyone. And it's like, no, this is this. He's. He's always wanted to be the Father of all the nations. To all the nations and.

[D]

Right.

[C]

And it starts with the Israelites. Yes. But they completely missed it.

[D]

Correct.

[C]

And the sad thing is, many of us today, many churches today still miss it. So it's. Yeah, I don't. It's just continually showing them. They're like, this is not a new thing. This has always been there. Jesus is about this. Father is about this.

[D]

That's why, by the way, I reject the terminology that people have created. They're like, oh, you just believe in replacement theology. Like, no, no, no, I'm not trying to replace Israel because I don't want to just be round two of missing the point. We are grafted in to the promises. So call me a Grafted theology. I'm into that. Let's use Bible words.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

You know.

[B]

Yeah. Because replacement theology implies the previous is gone, but of the previous, there are many that are still.

[D]

There's a remnant, you know.

[B]

Okay. So the. The gospels often put demonic oppression and physical sickness together. And even some of the phrasing you read, it's hard to know, were they healed because he rebuked the demons or is that separate? You know, it's an issue that people today, sometimes, you know, there's the people on this side that say, oh, your snivel, your sniffle is a demon. And then there's people over here. It's just like. I don't know, it's just the seasonal allergies. You know, it's like an either or. So how do we know why?

[D]

It's at least collateral damage of the fall.

[B]

Yes. So share with us some.

[D]

Did you have a cold? Was there a cold in Eden? Anybody have. Was anybody allergic to pollen in Eden? No. So look at the curses. And he cursed the very ground. Like, nobody had mosquito bites. Nobody. Right. Bears didn't eat people. There were no tsunamis. There were no hurricanes. It all was broken. So I don't think that you can, you know, like, every good and perfect gift is from above. So you should, you know, take you some allergy medication. That is a gift from God. No problem there. That's not a lack of faith. That's just actually an answer to prayer that some really smart people came up with. And that idea came from God. But I don't think you need to be in either extreme camp. Does that make sense?

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

But one of the reasons bad things happen is because we live in a fallen world.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

It's at least collateral damage.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[D]

There were no divorces pre fall. There was no sickness pre fall. There were no prodigal children. Prefall. Now, could you give. Could you also look at physical reasons where you walk down a road and you were at the destination you were heading towards? For sure. But that happened pre fall because not only was the world and our work curse, but our will to obey was also cursed. And we inherited a sin nature from our federal head, Adam. And so we were born with this rebellious or religious nature to reject God.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You mentioned bitterness tonight. And I think that one in particular, I can see it on people like you can. You can see physical manifestations and probably a lot of sickness. I mean, just look at stress and hypertension and all those things that people are in the medical community are starting to describe. And, yeah, you know, and catching up with. But I think that most people probably downplay too much the spiritual dimension of physical ailments.

[C]

I mean, I love the way you explained it. Is that unforgiveness? If you let it sit there for too long, it ferments. That was brilliant. And things that ferment, they stink. And you get drunk on it. And there's so many people who live in a narrative that they have created in their own mind, but it's so real for them.

[D]

And they're drunk on their emotions and

[C]

you're drinking your own poison, hoping other people are going to die. And it's like, hey, do you see what's happening to you? You need to surrender. You need to repent. You need to surrender this to Jesus and let him do a work in you. And bitterness is a real one. You know, they did this, they said this, and half the time those people don't even care.

[D]

Yeah. And our culture talks too much about fault and not enough about responsibility. Okay? I mean, I do care. But you're right, it may not have been your fault. You were abused, you were molested, but your life is your responsibility. And what I have seen is a lot of people will not let the other person off the hook because it is their excuse for their bad behavior. And they're drunk on their own bad behavior. Like, hey, well, you know, I'm sorry I lash out, but I don't think you understand what I've been through. You know, you could be free of that. You could actually, if you could cancel the debt, we'll get there in Matthew 18. If you could cancel the debt, you could be free of that and then take responsibility to follow after Jesus in your ways instead of blaming either like whatever the system is that you blame everything on. You know what I mean? The woke left is like, well, it's not my fault because the patriarchy and everything's racist and so it's not my fault. And the woke right is like, no, there's this cabal of Jews that are running everything. And so it's not my fault. You know, like, bro, you. That is so anti biblical way to look at this world. Regardless of what. I mean, if you live in North Korea, you still have the responsibility to live your life regardless of what the people in power over you choose to do. At no point is Paul, is Paul ever like, man, if we could just get the right Caesar, we could really get this church thing off the ground. No, dude, he just takes respons, like extreme ownership of, of the call that God has given him in his life.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Regardless of. He's not like, well, G didn't teach me. Right. He doesn't do any of that. He never blames up. He just is responsible for everything that God has given him to steward.

[B]

Shout out Jocko.

[C]

Is that Jocko's name? That's the. I mean, sin is so. It's.

[D]

It.

[C]

It'll have you sit in the darkness for so long. What ends up happening? I mean, if you go to the bush, this happens, Right. Like, you. If you sit in the dark long enough, your eyes just adjust to the darkness. So you actually. You're like, oh, it's not that bad, but I can see it's like, hold on, you're in the darkness.

[D]

Correct.

[C]

This is a bad situation. And, and, and, and when we justify, like, well, it's because of this. It's because you're just sitting there longer and longer and longer in the darkness. And it's not, hey, the power of the gospel can still. It still works. The blood still works. But it's, it's. It's. You got to recognize that that's what sin wants to do. Just wants to have you there and be like, yeah, you know, that's, that's.

[D]

The demoniacs, man. What they got into, got into them. They lived in the darkness, they lived in the tombs, they lived in death, they lived in the caves, and it got into them. And then they were. They terrorized other people.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Because they lived in terror.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

I mean, that is one of the clearest illustrations of the slipperiness of sin. Because what you started to get into began to get into you. Like, you got into drinking because you thought it was social and you'd make friends. And now drinking has gotten into you and it's ruling and reigning in your life and it controls you. Or you got into looking at some pictures online because, hey, what's it going to hurt? Now it got into you, and it is killing your emotional ability to actually connect with your wife.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[D]

Part of the reason I picked on weed is because it is a trick of the enemy. All these people have justified why it's okay, and it's not as okay. You're not addicted. Then stop. Well, I don't have to. You're addicted. You are, bro.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

It's telling you, like, you can't tell it what to do. It's telling you what to do. So pick. Whatever the thing is, online gambling, sports betting. Now you just got into it because it's fun. It makes the random games more Fun. Now it's into you and you can't watch a game without being drawn to it. I mean, the moment you bet more than you thought you should. The moment where you're trying to make up for the last one. The moment, bro, there's something in you. You got into it, it got into you. And the devil is just pumped.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I would just commend to anybody who wants a very wise and balanced kind of teaching on the whole thing of like, how do you pray? Through what might be generational or demonic influence in my life. Charles's first book, his first non fiction book. What if it's true? There's a chapter in there where he'll say, hey, let me just explain and have you explore. And there's a sample prayer in there. You know, I have just many, many prayer of deliverance. Many, many, many testimonies of people who have said, I'm not sure I buy it, but okay, they'll try it. And it's just like they have seen. Incredible breakthrough. It's, it's pretty wild.

[D]

Yeah. We copied and pasted it and put it in. Either if the tomb is empty or anything is possible. Also remember what chapter I think it's. I think it's if the tomb is empty. The mountain of Transfiguration, I believe, helped me overcome my own belief. I think that might be where it is. So it's so weird. Charles had to give himself permission to put it in another in, you know, so weird.

[B]

Sign his own form.

[D]

He did.

[B]

That's funny.

[C]

That's what happens when you're a big deal.

[D]

He is a big deal.

[B]

I was struck tonight when the demon possessed men say, what have you to do with us, O Son of God? What is the significance of them calling him by that name? Because that was not a small thing. Right?

[D]

Well, they're playing in a different realm.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

There's no pretense here. They know who he is and they've known who he was since they got cast out like lightning, bro. So when Lucifer gets cast out like lightning for trying to sit on God's throne seven times, he says, I will ascend and I will sit. I, I, I, I, I. Boom, he's gone. Jesus gives testimony to this. He's like, I saw it and a third of the angels with him. And so they know the deal, they know their future. What they're basically saying is, what you doing here? It's not the fourth quarter yet. Yeah, like you just jacking with us at the beginning of the game. Don't we have Time left. That's what they're saying. They know their future and since. And so part of the reason the demons terrorize the believer is because they know they can't keep you out of heaven. So they just want you to not be able to walk in the abundant life Christ has for you until you get there. And they definitely don't want you to take anybody with you. They don't want to lose another one to their enemy, which is the God of the universe. But the demons were always the first to recognize Jesus for who he is, and the religious leaders are the last because he did not fit their prescribed, prescribed description of what they were looking for.

[C]

It's wild.

[B]

And so when they, I just, I

[C]

just hope we never get to, like, I'm, I'm thinking about that and I'm thinking about my own life is like, where are the places that I've put Jesus in a box and gone? Well, he can't, he doesn't do that, or he doesn't do that with those people, or he does. It's like he, he's seated on his throne and he's fully in control. I, I, he does whatever I tell you.

[D]

One where I have to give, like, a willing suspension of disbelief. You know, you hear what, what God is doing in Iran and the number of Muslims who have had dreams of a man in white. And, you know, you first hear that and you're like, okay. I mean, you know, I mean, faith comes by hearing, hearing the word of God. So, but I'm, I'm putting aside the way, my own personal experience of how people have come to Christ. And I'm like, lord, you saved through Christ however you want to. And then, you know, the testimony starts stacking up to the point where, okay, this may be indescribable, but it's undeniable.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Now there's still somebody that has to connect the dots for them on who this man in white is. And somebody's like, yeah, that's Jesus. But God is saving people that way.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Because salvation is the Lord's, not our strategies.

[C]

Nope. Nope.

[D]

I want to partner with churches in Iran. I'm working on it right now.

[C]

Let's do it.

[D]

Y' all know David Nasser?

[C]

Yep.

[D]

Yeah, he's coming in next week.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[C]

Yep.

[D]

And I mean, this is your world, bro. This is what you came here to do. So get ready. We're going to partner up. We're going to adopt some churches and we're going to, you know, I mean, that might be the, the epicenter of what God really wants to do. And again, dude, we can fight all you want to about your political views on it. Neat. God can use either wise leadership or corrupt leadership. However you view our leadership right now, I don't care. But God is on the move, man.

[B]

Yeah, that's right.

[D]

You know, see these videos of these Iranians at this, what used to be an underground church, and they're singing Waymaker.

[C]

Yeah, I saw that.

[D]

Let's go.

[C]

So that. Wow.

[D]

So why not, why don't we get on the front end of that? We've been playing praying for revival. We thought it was going to happen here and it is. Yeah, but why not? Why not support what's happening there in the local church, which has been underground. Right.

[C]

When Jesus does. That's what he.

[D]

It would not be the first time God used geopolitical events where people had a lot of opinions on it to bring about a real move of God. I mean, I don't know if you read to the end of Matthew, but Rome is going to crucify Jesus.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

God was in control of the whole thing.

[B]

And then a few years later, the whole city is going to be destroyed. You know what else always strikes me as funny is that you have this crazy juxtaposition of crowds. Okay. Jesus is doing amazing things, you know, teaching. And these crowds are coming and they're like, yeah, heal us, deliver. And then he goes to this area with these two demon possessed men and they're delivered. And these huge, this huge herd of pigs, is they a thousand? They jump off a cliff or something and then this crowd comes out and they say, please leave. Isn't. Isn't that wild?

[C]

Not really.

[B]

Please leave.

[D]

Have you not worked at church?

[B]

I have, I do.

[D]

Jesus is very disruptive to the status quo. And lots of people are really comfortable just herding pigs. And they're just, they got really comfortable with the two demon possessed guys down there. And when Jesus starts changing lives, it starts turning things upside down. And you're like, wait a minute.

[B]

It's just so wild. I mean, it's a miracle. And they're like, please don't kill our pigs anymore. You know what I mean?

[D]

Or us.

[B]

But I guess it reminds me of, you know, why carrying that mat around. It's the Sabbath day, you know, But

[D]

I mean, the people were afraid of the two demoniacs, right? Like chains couldn't bind them. And, and they're, they're aggressive, bro. They're like, you can't come by this path anymore. Right. And the people grew comfortable with These two image bearers of God being possessed by demons, as long as it didn't bother their life and they were afraid of them. But you know what you're more afraid of? The one that can cast the demon out of those two guys and clothe them and put them in the right mind. We're going to see it next week when he calms the storm. Like, the disciples had the fear of the Lord come upon them in the boat. Because you know what is scarier than waves that can kill you? A person that can tell the waves to stop. And we've gotten way too comfortable with God in our evangelical. I get it. I get the personal relationship with Jesus. Abide to me. I'll abide in you. You know, you call me Lord, as you should, but I call you friends. Yes, but may we never, ever, ever just be comfortable with the creator and sustainer of the universe who decides where the lightning strikes and is in control of everything. We cannot lose our. All of him in our relationship with him.

[B]

And it's not just because. It's not just because they don't know him. I mean, have you been in a situation where you saw something extremely powerful, only God could do it? And they. Isn't the emotion kind of like, terrifying? Like, have you ever prayed for somebody and actually, like, they just got healed right. Right next to you? You're like. And you kind of, like, amazed, but also terrified or God does a supernatural. Like.

[D]

I was talking to my team today. I haven't told the story very much, but it's true. I was, I think, a sophomore in college. This would have been like 93 or something like that. So there's no cell phones and we had answering machines. Remember those? So like a. This for all you millennials and younger, this separate device that was connected to a landline and it had an actual tape in it.

[B]

And fancy ones had a tiny tape.

[D]

You know, we didn't. You were in that hot cotton. We had. We had like a. It was a thing. And I get home from class one day and my mom is leaving a message. My mom's here tonight and she's crying and she's like, your grandmother was having what was supposed to be a routine heart thing, and they've nicked her aorta, and they're life flagging her out of Marion Memorial, which I don't know why you call any hospital a memorial. Such a bad idea. Yeah, but they're flying around out of there because they don't have the ability to stop it. She's bleeding internally. And they told us. We were not sure she'll make the flight, the helicopter life flight to Florence, which is only like 20 minutes away. And she's just like, will you pray? And I went into my room and got my Bible out to, like, John 13, 14, 15, 16, over and over and over. He says, if you ask in my name, it will be done. And I just started praying his words back to him. Lord, I'm asking you that we call her Mimi. I'm asking you that you heal Mimi in your name, God, whatever that means. Again, I don't know the theology like I know today. And I had a sense of the presence of God like I've never sensed before in my life. I did not see him, but I swear, I feel like if I would have just peeked over, I could have seen him standing in my room. That's what it. That's the sense I had. Okay, Now I get updates, and they're positive. But two days later, I drive to go see my grandmother, and I opened the door, front door of her house, and she's vacuuming. When she landed, they could not find the injury. They clipped her aorta. They couldn't find the injury. The blood had stopped. They did not open her up. Everything was better. Everything was better. Wow. That's what I know. She lived another 30 years.

[C]

Wow.

[D]

Never had a problem. And honestly, if. If I heard it from anybody other than my own mouth, there was still this little bit of skepticism in me. You know what I mean? But I'm just telling you, that was the diagnosis. People prayed. When she landed, she was healed, completely healed. And vacuuming two days later, life flight on a Thursday, Saturday, she's vacuuming at her house.

[C]

Wow.

[D]

So, yeah, you're in awe. You're like, what is happening here?

[C]

Yeah. I think of it as trembling joy. I like, I call it that. That there is this reverence of the supernatural, the God of the universe, and this joy that He. He does this. He. He enters into humanity, into creation. And he. He goes from. I mean, it's. It's. We shouldn't see this as, like, separate things happening. It's like he's just finished preaching the sermon. Greatest sermon ever. And then now he goes, okay, now I'm going to go do the thing that I was talking about. And he's just. I love that he does it walking, that he never. He's never running. He's always at the pace of the Father. But it's just. I get this picture of, like, you know, wherever, and it is that right where darkness is. And he's the light. It's just the darkness flees. And I think that's what's happening with these, with these demons because there's this recognition of who he is and what he does. And I don't know how we become like that just becomes so familiar to us. Whether it's a lack of testimony, maybe we don't hear enough of the testimonies of what God is doing. Maybe it's a lack of just doing what the Bible says we should do. So like tonight, just praying and anointing people, we've normalized this. The gospel has become just so normal. Like, oh yeah, I guess that's what happens. That's what happens. And it's like you've, you've. Where is your trembling joy?

[D]

One time we were, we were doing a creative off site, which you guys are a part of. And we get to the point. So we've done the Bible study. I lead us through. This is the direction of the teaching. This is where we're going. And then we're like creating the service. You know, how do we get, you know, and we get to like the. Who knows some testimonies, who knows some stories of people of life change of. You know, and bro, the room is just popcorn. Like, I know a marriage that was saved. I know prodigals come home. I know somebody's healed. I know one more that got saved. And we're just going, going. And we had these, these two guys that were visiting from another church and they're like, hold on, how, how do you have all these stories of. I mean, this is incredible. And Brit, in the way Brit will do it, he goes, it's called ministry, bro. Just like that. But even for us, yeah, we weren't following our faces. After every story, we're like, oh yeah, I've heard of that one, you know, and bro, some. I mean, we can get so close to it here and what God's decided to do here that we can grow accustomed to what we should be in awe of.

[B]

So we got the privilege to pray with and for hundreds, maybe even thousands of people tonight. And I, I would guess there's probably some that experienced a miracle like that. They, they walked out. They're like, I know for sure that I'm healed. And then there's probably a percentage that walked out. And they're like, well, I don't feel any different. Things seem like they're still the same. And I mean, you talked about it when you talked about healing, you know, there's all of it's from God, and sometimes it's a process. But maybe as we end, what. What encouragement would you give to those people who feel like, did that do anything? You know, like they're. They're questioning because it definitely did something.

[D]

Yeah, but if you think God is a vending machine, then you might be looking for the wrong something, because some. I mean, Paul prayed three times, and I don't think that means, like, one to who that God would remove this thorn from his flesh. And God's like, I'm teaching you something here that's so much more important. You know, you could have a pride problem. And I'm going to leave this thorn in your flesh as a constant reminder of your dependence on me so that you know that my grace is sufficient now. We will be healed, period, end dot by his stripes, we are healed. Some of us will experience that on this side of eternity, and some people on the other. And so that is a part of it. This is the leper's prayer, is if you will not if you will, like, would you please? But if it be thy will, you can cleanse me. That's a really humble prayer. And so listen, my favorite pastor on and I were talking about this before you got in here. The number of babies that have been prayed into existence in this place. And my favorite is when these couples come up and they'll be like, I don't know if you remember. And I'll go, I remember. For whatever reason, Gresa and I have never had. We've never walked through the infertility thing whatsoever. So I can't. I've never walked in those shoes. But my heart hurts so bad for those at this point. They're like kids, you know, because they're in their 20s or 30s, and. And they're just begging God, the creator of life, would you just do the thing? You know? And they want to just raise little disciples. It seems like the purest intentions. You think God would answer every one of them, And I don't. I can't. I mean, we live in a broken world, right? But the number of them that have come and they bring their kid, dude, I cannot keep it together. Every time these couples come up and they're like, they're saying, and how good is God that he would get that we would get to see our prayers answered that way, you know? And then for those of you that are walking through fertility and he didn't answer your prayer, and you don't understand why. Me either. But he can be trusted. He's a good dad. And all he does is good and. But it's. It is miraculous. You know, it's just absolutely miraculous.

[B]

Whose is the quote? He brings us sorrows or joys, anything that would attach us to him.

[D]

J.I. packer.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

And still he seeks to fellowship with his people. And he will bring both sorrow and joy to detach our hands from the things of this world that we might grab onto him. Mm. Backer.

[B]

Yeah. That's his. That's his goal. It's not the temp. Because all the, all the healings and miracles are temporary besides salvation.

[D]

You know, part of the. I mean, I talked about this a little bit with the, with the leper. If the motivation of your prayer for healing is comfort, you really want to check that. So like Peter's mother in law immediately begins to serve Jesus. And sometimes God's like, he's. Why? Like I'm trying to do a thing in you. And you are going to always run to the comfortable. And if I remove this, your dependence on me is going to just dry up. And I need you to be like Psalm 42. As the deer pants for streams of running water, so my soul pants for you. And so I would highly encourage you to yearn for Jesus like a drowning man yearns for oxygen. Bro. And, and pray. You don't have to walk through the valley of the shadow of death to realize that he's with you.

[C]

The healing is not the destination.

[D]

No.

[C]

You know, I think if you realize that it's a beautiful thing, but, you know, it's. It's coming to the realization that he's there. His presence is there. You know, and so even praying for people, it's. It's. I'm praying that you would ex. You would experience the presence of the Father and then through that, the power and I don't know, like, we'll pray for the things. But then there's something he might go. I'm going to choose to use my power in a different way in real life. And then lastly is to know that the. The promises that are scattered throughout all of this are yes and amen in Jesus Christ.

[D]

Amen.

[C]

Like I. If I can leave you with that. We're off to a good start.

[D]

Yeah. That he is more than enough.

[C]

Yeah, man.

[D]

I was talking to the sweet part of the reason I was. Took me so long to get in here. There's a sweet girl. She sits stage right in a wheelchair. Do you know her? And she's got all kind of health complications and all kind of things going on. And, and even after the lobbyist. I was running back to my office to change, she was still sitting there. And I was just like, it's so good to see you, especially at a service like this. And she said, I'm just, you know, I'm having a really hard time because I just don't have any energy. And I want to serve because I serve. I serve on the welcome team, you know, which I think is really cool that she welcomes people at the front door, this beautiful girl. And I. And I told her, I said, listen, you might just have to let yourself off the mat. I think you got a lot of self guilt on what you're not doing. And God is pumped that you're here. You know how many people didn't come tonight because it got a little bit inconvenient? You know how hard it is for her to show up. You know what she has to go through just to be here. And I thought I told her, if the only. If your ministry is preaching sermons by worshiping God from this wheelchair, do you realize what a ministry you have? And if God healed you, you'd be just like the rest of us. You just be a normal. You would not have the testimony of worship that you have. And then I said, you have no idea how encouraging you put courage in me when I'm preaching. When I look over there and I see you taking notes. Her hand didn't used to work. She couldn't write. Then she had a surgery. Now she's got use of her hands. She can take notes. And I look over and she's got her Bible open, she's got notes. And I was like, even if your only ministry is to encourage the pastor, not a lot of people get to do that ministry around here. Most people are very discouraging. And so God is marveling at you tonight and your ministry of faithfulness to just show up and want to be here. And your biggest frustration right now is you're not getting to serve as what, as much as you want. I think Jesus is marveling at that kind of faith.

[C]

That's beautiful.

[B]

Isn't our friend Josh Turner his daughter with her health issues? I think at one point said, stop praying for me to be healed.

[D]

Right.

[B]

Because I need this. This is my testimony. God's gonna work. It's like, that's so powerful. Well, what an amazing night. An amazing blessing to be a part of this place. Thank you, Pastor Joby.

[C]

Thank you.

[B]

Thank you, Pastor Oni. Any closing comments or just want to pray?

[D]

Yeah, let's pray.

[B]

Let's pray.

[D]

Jesus I thank you that you are the Great Physician. Lord, I thank you that there is not an expiration date on your power and that you still do what you've always done. And God, I pray that we would not, we would never seek healing at the expense of knowing the Healer. Pray in Jesus name. Amen. Thank you for listening to the podcast.

[A]

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