Deepen with Pastor Joby Martin: "When God Won’t Explain Himself" (S23E2)

Date: September 22, 2025
Host: Pastor Joby Martin
Guest: Pastor Michael Olson
Theme: Wrestling with the mystery of God’s will, worship amid suffering, and developing resilient faith when God doesn’t provide answers.

Episode Overview

In this heartfelt episode of the "Deepen" podcast, Pastor Joby Martin and guest Pastor Michael Olson reflect on the intersection of worship and suffering, especially during times when God remains silent or circumstances make little sense. Centered around the classic hymn "It Is Well," Horatio Spafford’s tragic story, and Jesus’s testing of his disciples in John 6, the conversation explores the role of faith, church community, and worship in navigating pain and unanswered questions. The discussion is rooted in recent events and the current climate of cultural polarization, as well as personal experiences within their congregation at The Church of Eleven22.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Timeliness of the Sermon Series (00:18–03:58)

• Series Context: The current "Worship is War" series feels providential against the backdrop of global and local crises.
• God’s Preparation: Pastor Joby shares how, through prayerful planning, the sermons often align perfectly with what the church and world need at the moment.
  • Quote (Pastor Joby, 01:31):

    “I think the God of the universe talked to me.”

• Divisiveness in Culture: The world is experiencing not just hardship but also an increasing clarity between belief and disbelief, especially among the younger generation.
  • Quote (Pastor Joby, 05:17):

    “I think the chasm between the lost and the found is just getting bigger and bigger... today can be very costly even just to identify yourself on the Jesus side of the ledger.”

2. Revival and the Next Generation (02:26–07:08)

• Campus Revivals: Despite negative headlines, true revival is breaking out in unexpected places, with students gathering for spontaneous, simple, and sincere worship.
• Gospel Simplicity: Both Joby and Olson celebrate the unadorned, Spirit-led character of current movements, reminiscent of past revivals (e.g., Azusa Street).

3. Readiness of the Church & The Power of Gathering (07:09–14:20)

• Church’s Response to Influx: Following crises (like post-9/11), many flock to churches, but retention requires authentic gospel-centered community.
  • Quote (Pastor Joby, 08:14):

    “If you present anything other than the gospel... honestly you’re just going to waste people’s time.”

• Corporate Worship’s Power: The irreplaceable spiritual reality when believers gather and worship together, described as a foretaste of heaven (09:13–09:49).
  • Quote (Joby, 09:13):

    “It is one of the constant activities of heaven. The elders never stop singing...”

4. Navigating the COVID Era & Ministry Adaptation (10:12–15:27)

• Online and In-person Ministry: Eleven22’s strategic and Spirit-led response allowed them to disciple people worldwide, refusing to halt construction or ministry despite the pandemic.
• Church as Essential: Worship is as critical as eating; even in grief or crisis, gathering and praising God is vital for survival.
  • Quote (Joby, 14:44):

    “There is nothing more essential than worship... Even when your soul doesn’t feel like worshiping, you gotta worship your way through it or you’re not gonna survive.”

5. Becoming What We Worship (15:27–16:31)

• Scriptural Foundation: Worship is transformative; we become what we adore (Isaiah, Psalms, Romans 8).
• Necessity of Community: Personal and corporate worship sustains believers in all circumstances.

6. Worship Leadership and Personal Testimony (16:34–18:22)

• Michael Olson’s Experience: Olson reflects on his lifelong exposure to Spirit-filled worship and how the Eleven22 community mirrors his childhood memories of genuine, expressive faith.

7. The Story of "It Is Well" (18:22–22:43; 26:37–27:01)

• Horatio Spafford’s Tragedy: Bringing the distant past into present emotion, they discuss the depth of suffering Spafford endured and the radical faith embodied in writing “It Is Well.”
• Modern Echoes: Connecting Spafford’s loss to recent tragedies (e.g., Erica Kirk), they highlight faith under extreme grief.
  • Quote (Pastor Joby, 20:07):

    “Whatever my lot Thou hast taught me to say: it is well, it is well with my soul. That’s what you do.”

  • On Erica Kirk:
    “She stands up and says, God is good, guys. God is good... if you will repent of your sin and put your faith in Jesus, you will be saved regardless of who you are.” (21:20)

8. Faith in the Face of Suffering—Real Stories (22:43–29:34)

• Personal Stories from the Congregation: The power of lived faith as seen through families who’ve lost children or endured unimaginable pain.
• Authentic Pastoring: Joby and Olson share about maintaining close relationships with people, resisting celebrity-pastor isolation.
  • Quote (Joby, 29:07):

    “Cowboys are cool... but pastors are called to be shepherds, to know, to care for, to love, to be willing to lay down their life for their sheep.”

9. When God Won’t Explain Himself—John 6 (32:00–44:23)

• The Hardest Questions: What do believers do when God doesn’t answer or when his actions seem incomprehensible?
• Peter’s Response: “Lord, to whom would we go? You have the words of eternal life.”
• Faith Beyond Explanation: Faith is not about receiving all the answers; it’s about abiding and trusting.
  • Quote (Joby, 39:40):

    “You are saved by faith, not explanation, not excel spreadsheets. You gotta trust me... am I just useful to not go to hell, or am I beautiful? Do you love me?”

10. Living with Mystery, Managing Emotions (44:28–52:51)

• Honest Parenting Analogy: Even if God explained, as parents know with children, we likely would not understand anyway.
• Feelings as Gauges, Not Guides: Emotions are real and vital but cannot ultimately determine truth.
  • Quote (Joby, 48:50):

    “Your feelings have to be gauges, not guides. That’s it. There’s no bad feelings... but they don’t determine what is true.”

• The Balancing Act of Spirit and Truth: Worship “in Spirit and truth” is vital for navigating life (joby, 52:52).

11. Eternal Perspective in Suffering (46:23–48:39)

• Time Isn’t the Ultimate Measure: God’s kingdom reframes loss and pain not by earthly timelines but by eternal realities.
  • Quote (Olson, 47:15):

    “Time will not be the final measurement of the value of when you see things through the kingdom perspective, well, then the whole game changes, man.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On ministry in suffering:

  “We are freaking puppets up there... But the faith that it takes to, for Erica Kirk to get up and share the gospel... That’s some loving your enemies right there.”
  (Joby, 34:05)

• On abiding:

  “The answer is continually abiding... us just pulling into, not trying to do the thing with our own strength. I don’t want to work at the church with a bunch of people that have got it all figured out.”
  (Michael Olson, 40:21)

• Parental analogy:

  “None of my answers actually help her to understand because she can’t see the... bigger picture. That’s probably what would happen with us and God.”
  (Host B, 43:12)

• On the final redemption:

  “We’re going to heaven and there’s the end of the story. All the darkness is going to be undone. All of it.”
  (Joby, 46:23)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Planning & Providence: 00:18–05:31
• Generational Revival & Cultural Divide: 03:40–07:08
• Church Preparedness & Post-Crisis Ministry: 07:09–09:49
• COVID & Church Adaptation: 10:12–15:27
• Worship Transforms: 15:27–16:31
• Personal Stories in Worship: 16:34–18:22
• "It Is Well" & Suffering: 18:22–22:43, 26:37–27:01
• Shepherding vs. Celebrity Pastors: 28:05–29:34
• When God Doesn’t Explain (John 6): 32:00–44:23
• Living with Mystery & Hope: 44:28–54:14

Conclusion & Final Thoughts

• Emotional & Theological Maturity: The episode closes with a reminder that faith is grounded in both honest emotion and enduring conviction in God’s character—especially when answers aren’t forthcoming. Worship is a lifestyle and a lifeline through the storms of life.
• Bookmark for Hard Times: Pastor Joby encourages listeners to save this conversation for seasons when suffering feels overwhelming and questions go unanswered, as a source of encouragement and hope.
  • Quote (54:10):

    “This is the kind of podcast that you bookmark... and when the fallenness of man and the depravity of this world... hits you specifically, you come back through it again to be reminded.”

For prayer, further conversation, or to find resources mentioned, visit coe22.com.