Defenders Podcast: Doctrine of Man (Part 7)

Episode Theme:
Paul’s Use of the Anthropological Terms Sarx and Psyche
Host: Dr. William Lane Craig
Air Date: July 2, 2025

Main Theme and Purpose

This episode explores Paul's use of key anthropological terms—sarx (flesh) and psyche (soul)—in New Testament theology. Dr. Craig examines their nuanced meanings in Paul's writings, clarifies theological misunderstandings around these terms (especially "the flesh" in relation to sin and the resurrection), and discusses the biblical basis for body-soul dualism, as well as implications for Christian doctrine on the afterlife and the resurrection.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Understanding "Sarx" (Flesh) in Paul

(Timestamps: 00:17–08:27)

• Multiple Meanings of Sarx:

  • Sometimes used metaphorically for “the evil proclivity” or fallen human nature, not material bodies.
  • Paul and the Scriptures do not teach that our material bodies are inherently evil.

• Nuances in Resurrection Language:

  • The German Apostles’ Creed says, “I believe in the resurrection of the flesh (Fleisch),” which worries some theologians since “flesh” can imply sinful human nature.
  • Dr. Craig clarifies Paul often uses “sarx” in a morally neutral sense, meaning simply “biological tissue”—the organic matter of living things.

“Paul often uses the word sarx in a morally neutral sense to mean basically organic stuff, the material out of which an animal's body is made, the physical flesh, essentially meat, if you will.” — Dr. Craig (02:24)

• 1 Corinthians 15:35–41 Discussion:

  • Paul uses three analogies for the resurrection body:
    1. Seed & Plant Analogy: The sown seed dies and yields a different kind of life—so the resurrection body is transformed.
    2. Kinds of Flesh: “Not all flesh is alike”—men, animals, birds, fishes—all have different types of flesh. Here, sarx means “meat” or “organic tissue,” not sinful nature.
    3. Celestial and Terrestrial Bodies: Different types of “glory” (luminosity) illustrate the transformed, glorified resurrection body.

• Scholarly Insight:

  • Robert Jewett notes that here sarx is used interchangeably with soma (“body”), showing a non-moral sense.

“So in this passage, Paul is not using the word sarx in the theological sense of fallen human nature. Rather, he basically uses it as akin to the body…” — Dr. Craig (06:57)

• Key Takeaway:
  • The phrase “resurrection of the flesh” is not theologically problematic if “flesh” is understood as “physical body” rather than “sinful nature.”

2. Audience Discussion: New Testament Use of "Flesh"

(Timestamps: 08:27–09:04)

• John 1:14 as Example:
  • Audience notes that “the Word became flesh” in John 1:14 is another case where “flesh” simply means “physical body.”

“John's not saying that Jesus…became evil, corrupt human nature…” — Steve (08:44)

• Craig’s Affirmation:
  • Agrees: “The very Incarnation means literally in the flesh.” (08:53)

3. Pre-Fall Flesh vs. Theological Flesh

(Timestamps: 09:04–09:33)

• Question: Could different “estates” imply different “dominions,” and does the “flesh” change through the fall?
• Craig’s Clarity: Pre-fall, humans had a neutral, biological sarx. The “flesh” as sinful proclivity only arises after the fall.

“The flesh in the sense of this evil proclivity... comes into existence through the fall and through sin.” — Dr. Craig (09:33)

4. Paul’s View of "Psyche" (Soul) and Body-Soul Dualism

(Timestamp: 09:33–19:22)

• Definition:

  • Psyche means “soul”—the conscious self.
  • Paul teaches a dualism: body (soma) and soul (psyche).

• Scriptural Exegesis – 2 Corinthians 4:16–5:10:

  • “Outer nature” (body) is temporary (“tent”); “inner nature” (soul) is eternal.
  • After death but before resurrection, souls exist in an “intermediate state”—as disembodied souls “at home with the Lord.”
  • This “naked” state (without the body) is not preferable; believers “long to be further clothed”—to receive their resurrection bodies without passing through death.

“To be away from the body is to be present with the Lord. And that is better than this earthly existence.” — Dr. Craig (15:50)

• Implications for Christian Materialism:
  • Dr. Craig highlights problems with views that deny the existence of an immaterial soul (such as Christian physicalism/materialism).

“…such a view is very difficult to reconcile with the teaching of a passage like this, which…I think clearly contemplates the existence of the soul in…a disembodied state.” — Dr. Craig (16:32)

• Terminology Variations:
  • Paul sometimes uses metaphors instead of technical terms (“tent” vs. “body/soul”).
  • Sometimes compounds three terms: soma (body), psyche (soul), pneuma (spirit)—but “spirit” (pneuma) is best understood as an aspect of soul, not a third substance.

“It’s more plausible to take spirit as a function or aspect of the soul.” — Dr. Craig (18:56)

• Key Conclusion:
  • Humans have an immaterial component (soul/spirit) that survives death and awaits resurrection.

5. Intermediate State for Unbelievers (Hades/Sheol)

(Timestamp: 19:22–21:51)

• Audience Question: What happens to unbelievers’ souls after death?
• Craig’s Answer:
  • Makes distinctions: Hades/Sheol (intermediate state for the dead) vs. Gehenna/hell (final state).
  • Parable of Lazarus and the rich man (Luke 16) suggests both believers and unbelievers exist in a conscious intermediate state; however, cautions against over-interpreting parables.

6. Speculations on Spirit, Soul, and the Resurrection

(Timestamp: 21:51–25:51)

• Audience Attempts to Systematize:

  • One participant outlines a theory of “spiritual anchor,” “projection,” and “manifestation” (anchor = spirit, projection = soul, manifestation = body).

• Craig Pushes Back:

  • Finds no New Testament support for this elaborate scheme.
  • Firmly states: “The flesh” in its theological (sinful) sense is not resurrected but destroyed.

"Flesh in this sense…is not a thing. It just represents the fallenness…the God opposed nature of human beings…that I would say, thank God, will be completely done away with." — Dr. Craig (25:33)

7. Clarifying the Creation and Existence of Hell & Heaven

(Timestamp: 26:03–28:34)

• When is Hell Created?
  • Dr. Craig: In one sense, hell (“the final state”) does not yet exist; currently, only the “realm of the disembodied dead” (Sheol/Hades) exists.
  • Likewise, “heaven” in its final sense (the new creation) awaits resurrection.

"In a sense, heaven doesn’t exist yet either. That will be the final state for resurrected believers, the new heavens and the new earth.” — Dr. Craig (28:07)

8. On the Intermediate State and Scriptural Interpretation

(Timestamp: 28:34–29:17)

• Audience Asserts: Lazarus and the rich man may not be a parable due to the use of names. Also references Christ preaching to “spirits in prison” (1 Peter 3:19).
• Craig’s Response:
  • Acknowledges multiple passages regarding an intermediate state.
  • Admits difficulty in interpretation (esp. 1 Peter 3:19), whether this refers to fallen angels or human souls.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Sarx and Resurrection:
  • “It is in this physical sense then, that the resurrection of the flesh is…quite unobjectionable. Theologically.” — Dr. Craig (07:48)
• On Body-Soul Dualism:
  • “We know that while we are at home in the body, we are away from the Lord…We would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.” — Dr. Craig (reading Paul, 14:31)
• On Doctrine and Pastoral Implications:
  • “If the soul or mind is the self conscious self, the ‘I’, then it’s bewildering what a distinct spirit could be.” — Dr. Craig (18:51)
• On Intermediate States:
  • “What exists now is this intermediate state of disembodied existence prior to the return of Christ and the resurrection of the dead.” — Dr. Craig (28:10)

Important Timestamps

• 00:17–08:27: Paul’s use of sarx, especially in 1 Corinthians 15, and the “resurrection of the flesh”
• 08:27–09:04: Audience connects John 1:14 to the neutral meaning of “flesh”
• 09:33–19:22: Paul’s conception of soul, body, and the intermediate state
• 19:22–21:51: Fate of unbelievers in the intermediate state (Hades/Sheol)
• 21:51–25:51: Audience speculation on spirit/soul concepts and Craig's response
• 26:03–28:34: Clarifications about creation of hell and the afterlife
• 28:34–29:17: Luke 16 discussion (parable or real event); Christ preaching to spirits in prison

Conclusion

Dr. Craig artfully parses Paul’s dense theological vocabulary, distinguishing between physical and moral senses of “flesh” and defending body-soul dualism grounded in scripture. The class discussion surfaces common confusions and speculative ideas, which are gently but firmly clarified. The episode reinforces classical Christian teaching: humans are both body and soul; death entails an intermediate disembodied state; the resurrection will reunite soul and body in glory; and the fallen, sinful “flesh” has no place in the world to come.

For more resources, visit reasonablefaith.org.