← Design Better
Design Better
Josh Clark and Veronika Kindred: Sentient Design and the future of interfaces
00:36:51
We talk to Veronika and Josh about why chat interfaces might be holding us back, explore new experience patterns that go way beyond conversation, and discuss what it means to design systems where users can essentially draw their own interfaces into existence. We also tackle the thorny questions around trust, transparency, and what happens when we cede control back to users in ways that could make traditional designers uncomfortable.
Loading summary
Transcript45 lines
- [00:02]
Veronica Kindred
Right now, they're such people pleasers. It's really their nature. They really want you to like them. They really want to say nice things to you, but it's not exactly helpful. Like, that's not always a helpful stance for them to take. It's a nice stance for them to take. It makes a lot of sense why that would be their default tone. But in terms of actual helpfulness, it seems about time that we at least have an option where it's a bit more more rigorous.
- [00:30]
Aaron Walter
As designers, we're entering a new era, one where AI isn't just a tool that we use behind the scenes, it's also a collaborator we're designing with and for. It's a shift that challenges our assumptions, pushes us beyond static interfaces that we're used to, and calls on us to rethink what it means to create experiences in an intelligent, adaptive world. In this episode of Design Better, we talk with Josh Clark and Veronica Kindred, co authors of the upcoming book Sentient Design, about what it takes to design for this new frontier. Josh brings three decades of UX wisdom, while Veronica, a rising voice in the field and as it turns out, is Josh's daughter, brings fresh perspective as part of the first generation of AI native designers. Together they offer a framework for designing interfaces that respond to context, intent, and user agency without falling into the trap of chatbots as default, we dig into.
- [01:32]
Eli Wooler
Why chat interfaces might be holding us back. We explore new experience patterns that go way beyond conversation and discuss what it means to design systems where users can essentially draw their own interfaces into existence. We also tackle the thorny questions around trust, transparency, and what happens when we cede control back to users in ways that could make traditional designers a little uncomfortable. This is DesignBetter, where we explore creativity at the intersection of design and technology. I'm Eli Wooler.
- [01:59]
Aaron Walter
And I'm Aaron Walter. If you're hearing this, you're not currently on our Premium subscriber feed. DesignBetter Premium subscribers enjoy weekly episodes. You get four episodes per month rather than just two. All are ad free, and you get invited to our monthly AMAs with the smartest folks in design and tech. You'll hear a preview of this episode, but if you'd like to hear the full conversation, please consider becoming a premium subscriber@designbetterpodcast.com subscribe. That's designbetterpodcast.com subscribe. It's just seven bucks a month and it supports not only your personal growth, it also supports your design community. The podcast is available to Everyone through our scholarship program. If you can't afford a subscription right now, just shoot us an email@subscriptions.com and we'll help you out. We'll return to the conversation after this quick break.
- [03:06]
Josh Clark
Design Better is brought to you by WIX Studio, the platform built for all web creators to design, develop and manage exceptional web projects at scale. Learn more@wix.com studio.
- [03:23]
Aaron Walter
And now back to the show. Josh Clark and Veronica Kendred, welcome to Design Better.
- [03:33]
Veronica Kindred
Hello.
- [03:34]
Josh Clark
Thanks so much for having us.
- [03:35]
Aaron Walter
You have a very timely book coming out very soon called Sentient Design. It's going to be published with Rosenfeld Media. Publication date still TBD, but it is imminent. We'll say it's summer of 2025. It's coming out very soon. Tell us a little bit about the book and the philosophy within it.
- [03:56]
Josh Clark
Sentient Design is what we call the form and framework and philosophy for creating intelligent interfaces. Sentient. I want to sort of get out in front of this right away. Sounds like a pretty big deal. It's sort of like we're not talking about Terminator type stuff. We're not talking about Sentient, about the singularity here. We simply mean interfaces that are aware of context and intent in ways that allow them to be radically adaptive. And so these are AI mediated experiences that are conceived and compiled the moment. It's a new kind of experience of what happens when you weave intelligence into the interface itself. And it's pretty exciting and weird and hairy. And that's what the book is about, is how to give designers literacy in machine learning and AI. And to think of it as a material for creating dramatically valuable new experiences.
- [04:58]
Veronica Kindred
That's right. And I would just add to that. I think as designers we've kind of seen a lot of experiences of AI being added to a product or an experience. And it's kind of just a chatbot slapped onto whatever was already there in the first place, which is not the best we can do. We can definitely do better than chat. Of course, chat is great and it kind of invites this whole new type of experience, but it's really only one corner of what's possible. So in addition to everything that Josh said, in addition to providing this framework and this philosophy, also just about teaching people how to design better with AI.
- [05:34]
Josh Clark
I'm glad you mentioned that, because chat has such a huge gravity. It's like sort of a black hole of attention when it comes to what intelligent interfaces are supposed to be. It's like for 75 years we've been told that the Turing Test is how we know if a system is intelligent is if it can pretend to be a human, if it can have a convincing conversation. And somehow that thought experiment of the imitation game from 75 years ago became a design brief that that's, like, the goal. And it turns out that there's a whole bunch of other really valuable experiences that you can create, aside from conversational dialogue with a system that's pretending to be human.
- [06:19]
Eli Wooler
As designers, we're entering this era where we're both using these tools to create things, but also designing experiences that have AI at their core. So maybe we could talk about some of the skills that we should cultivate or think about as we work our way through this new era.
- [06:36]
Josh Clark
One of the skills is just frankly learning the grain of this material. You know, I think we've all experienced that this stuff is weird. It's great at stuff that we wouldn't expect it to be good at and terrible at stuff that we would. It's obviously unpredictable in that context. And so a lot of the work, you know, I mentioned literacy before, is just finding out what the stuff is good and bad at and embracing the possibility that the weirdness of it can be an asset instead of a liability. And sometimes it's a little bit of stepping back and trying not to force it to be like computer systems that we've known from our past, where it's like, the goal is for it to have predictability and to give grounded answers. Especially when we look at large language models, it demonstrably is bad at that. Although some other kinds of machine learning, and let's not forget AI is a lot more than large language models. There's a long tradition of machine learning that can be really valuable material, too, and more reliable. So I think the biggest skill is to work with this material, learn its grain, its strengths and its weaknesses, and how it wants to be used. And, Veronica, you talk about that a lot in terms of just sort of starting to use it for everything, to have that kind of intuition for it.
- [08:08]
Veronica Kindred
Yeah, I definitely joke about, like, oh, I use AI to, like, go grocery shopping now. But it's true. I do. And just like, being able to use it outside of work, even just for, like, small tasks like that, it makes it easier to grocery shop for a specific recipe or something like that. Like a very basic application that makes my life a little bit easier. I'd like to pick apart something else you said when we're talking about designers integrating AI into their processes. I do think that's a lot of what has Been quite emotional for people in getting into how AI is going to impact them in their lives, because there's a lot of talk about replacement. It's going to take our jobs or it's going to take the fun parts of our jobs. The part that I like, the creative part. And I really think that's why it's important to focus on how it can make the experience actually better. This whole perspective that we've kind of been seeing everywhere is really focused on efficiency. It's very corporate driven. It's conversations like, how can we get the best roi? How can we drive value and cut down costs? And all of that is important for a business. But, you know, it's not a human centered way to look at AI. And for designers, you know, that is the brief right to be human centered. I'd like to think about how this can make a better experience for people and that includes us as well. How can we use it to make our lives, our jobs, better and more fun? And that is not necessarily going to come from the top down. Like that might be something that we need to figure out for ourselves.
- [09:38]
Josh Clark
I mean, I think one of the interesting things, you know, is Veronica is speaking as a different generation of designer than me. Veronica, you are two years into your career, you are AI native as a professional designer, and you grew up with TikTok as a norm, not static websites. And so, I mean, I think one thing that I've found really helpful working with Veronica on this book and at Big Medium is the perspective that she brings to this, that I, I have 30 years of history in UX and product design. And while I think I've got a pretty good handle on the best practices of this stuff, the more that I've worked with these things with AI, with machine learning, the more that I've realized that a lot of my assumptions need to be revisited. So old heads like mine need new heads like Veronica's. And so as we look at the next generation of experience design, it's really helpful to be working with literally the next generation. And in our case, literally so. Because Veronica is not just my colleague, but my daughter, which has been like a really special relationship to me, I think, in doing this. And I've just like learned so much as a designer in the last couple of years, as she said, wait, why do we do it that way when we have these tools available? So, you know, she gives her old man a kick in the seat of the pants here. I'm sort of like, let's think about this differently, right?
- [11:12]
Veronica Kindred
Maybe A bit quicker to try out new tools. Although let's not give Josh no credit. He's definitely out there.
- [11:19]
Josh Clark
Thank you, Veronica.
- [11:20]
Eli Wooler
Yes. Yeah, I think in some ways we kind of buried the lead because I think it's so great that you guys are working on this project together. I have a 14 year old daughter and a 9 year old son, so a little younger. But I do see that behavior where a, they're very much like voice first in a lot of ways. They interact with tech products and you know, we touched on chatbots a little bit. That's certainly not the only way to go. But they kind of get it in a way that I don't or think of ways of using it that I wouldn't. So I think it's wonderful that you two are able to collaborate in this way.
- [11:48]
Josh Clark
Thanks. Me too.
- [11:49]
Aaron Walter
Eli, I want to dig deeper into some of the things that you've alluded to here. You're talking about understanding AI, understanding the grain of IT or its behaviors, sort of a personification of what does IT want. I often find myself as I'm using ChatGPT, Claude, whatever, thinking of it as an entity and I can't help but think like when I say, can you do this? Or like I'm talking to it not as a computer that's doing my bidding, but as a collaborator, like I would talk to another human being because it is such a nascent space that is emerging and we are constantly learning and constantly exploring new things we can do and how it enhances our lives, also how it will change our lives. Like Claude, the Anthropic CEO co founder recently came out last week. I think it was predicting maybe up to 10, 15% unemployment in the next three to five years, which is frightening, devastating. We've never seen anything like that in our lifetimes. So there's a lot that can happen with this. But what you're describing is not taking the current state as this is what it is, what can it be and what can AI do for the things that we're making? Can you paint a picture for us two years, three years, five years out of what software could look like, the human interaction our relationship with technology could look like if designers are smart about what's emerging?
- [13:20]
Josh Clark
I think there's like two things to mention there. One is what is our relationship to the technology as designers? And then what is it for our users or for us as users sort of outside of our design process? I think one thing is, and you've touched on this, Veronica is touched on this, is that Right now there's this big focus on how do we use AI to do design work. In other words, how do we use it for efficiency to replace tasks that we've already been doing, which has a little bit of a nervous, anxious making feeling of wait, this is replacing design, maybe diminishing design. Where is my role in this? And those are important things to figure out. And there will be utility in that as well. As we sort of find parts of our design process collapsing, shortening, being taken over by sort of automated systems. There's another way to create value other than grinding out efficiencies, and that is to create valuable new experiences. And when we talk about weaving intelligence into the interface, we're talking about how do we take that machine intelligence as a material to create really new kinds of experiences. You've talked about it yourself. It's like, wow, I've got a different relationship to this interface than I've had to computing before. In some ways that adds ease and gives you more value. So one of the things that we've done in the book is identified 14 new experience patterns that AI can take in addition to dialogue and chat, where you can have these kind of intelligent new experiences. And at the far end of that is a pattern that we call the intelligent canvas, which is maybe the most radically adaptive, which is essentially have a blank canvas that can become whatever you need in the moment. So it's the kind of thing of, oh, let me sketch an interface, let me describe a thing that I need and an application spins up. It's similar to what designers are using right now with things like lovable or other things like that to create applications for the users down the road to speed production. But what if it's just like I'm creating it for me, software on demand that is essentially disposable. I need a thing for 10 minutes, let me describe it, it appears, and then I put it aside and move on. There is this idea from some that something like a ChatGPT platform or a single AI platform can eat all of computing. I doubt that's going to be the case. Like, I don't see that, at least in the near future. I think it's much more likely that AI becomes a capability that any application can bring into it and that things will remain somewhat domain focused. It's just a little bit easier for us to use, frankly. I think in that way.
- [16:15]
Aaron Walter
Can we push on this, please? Because this I find really interesting. And for those of us who have been on the web, designing and building for the web for Decades. I can't help but think that we might be a little shortsighted in not seeing what could happen here. So we just had a conversation, an episode that will come out very soon, a conversation with Google. And Google I o had some fascinating announcements. It's sort of like headless search. So it's AI, like this open mode AI mode where you can query the web for things. But that query is not just like, here are some links. It's all of the knowledge of the web and the conversation happening right there. So we no longer need to go to websites to do that thing because there are agents to do that stuff for us. It's not just bringing us information, it's also doing the tasks for us. And I can't help but think, those of us who have been making websites for decades, do we need to make websites anymore? Or do we just, like, fill in squares on a spreadsheet that are part of the LLM?
- [17:24]
Josh Clark
I think that content and informational sites, especially around somewhat commodity content, is really at risk with that kind of model. And I think we'll see what happens. Veronica and I have been working closely with one of the biggest publishers in the world as they sort of work their way through it and try to understand what is my value. When information is being atomized and commoditized like that. And a lot of it is around storytelling. You know, it's like, oh, I'm coming to you because I trust you. I trust the storytelling that you're doing. In the same way that I'm going to continue listening to this podcast, even though Jim and I could probably create an audio podcast on any topic that I want, I want to listen to you too. And so I think that there is this idea of sort of relationship and human relationship, even as we have some notion of content being commoditized. But I don't know, Veronica. It's like we've also been looking at a bunch of different models for experiences that we can create that sort of dismantle complex information architecture with, like, interfaces that are conceived and delivered in real time for the specific thing that you want. You know, it's like I'm thinking about bespoke UI and some of the dashboard things that we're seeing.
- [18:40]
Veronica Kindred
Right. And also in our work, we've kind of come to make this distinction between search and discovery. So search being like a traditional, like Google query, and discovery being a more curated experience, like a social media algorithm, as you're saying. Aaron definitely feels like we're moving towards more of a discovery Way using the Internet. And yeah, like as Josh was saying, what does that do for websites who get their revenue from clicks when you don't have to click on them anymore? I think Josh is absolutely right. It really becomes not only about the storytelling and the relationship that you have with the user, but also about the experience. Like I could go to people.com or I could go to TikTok to talk about like the latest celebrity gossip, but where do I think I'm gonna have the better experience? What kind of experience do I want? Do I wanna read or do I want someone my age to like tell me about it in slang that I would use type of thing? I mean it's kind of good news for designers, right? Like we're practice and making experiences. That's what we are really best at. So it's like yes, some websites and some types of information where it's really just about content might change, might not have the same models that they're used to, but websites that are really about the experience and dare I say, even the joy of being on the website, like maybe that will matter all the more.
- [19:57]
Aaron Walter
Yeah, this is interesting, Veronica, this idea of discovery. So the information architecture days early 2000s, we often talked about known and unknown search and known search in the age of AI is on lock. Like if you want to know any esoteric, bizarre, whatever, that can be answered very quickly, very efficiently and you can go deeper into that quite well. The unknown search, the discovery part of not really knowing what your interests are or where you will go. Like the world is a rich multifaceted place and there's so much that can be discovered. Do the two of you have thoughts about what that could look like in the future? This unknown search part.
- [20:45]
Josh Clark
One of the things that's intriguing is as we've gone from search to curation in social media, that what seems to be happening now is manifesting. Like I just want to manifest the thing that I'm looking for. So I think that there is this thing not only of I'm looking for information or to complete a task, but I want something right now that takes this form. This sounds very abstract, but kind of to come back to this intelligent canvas pattern. We see it in consumer products like iPad already where we have the calculator for iPad, calculator app. I'm going to talk about something that's just like make it anything you want is that there's this math notes feature that essentially lets you scribble your own interface of a math based function and you've got an Instant interface. It's like, great. I'm going to draw an interface for calculating how much soil I need for my garden and how much that's going to cost and can sort of play with the variables. And it's like put it aside. Or an application to do recipe conversion. There's a platform of possibility, but I'm drawing my own interface.
- [21:54]
Aaron Walter
Magic crayon.
- [21:55]
Josh Clark
Yeah, it is totally the magic crayon. Exactly. I love the Harold and the Purple crayon example. Or it's also like Wile E. Coyote drawing, you know, a fake road and you know, fake tunnel onto the cliff. So. And then it turns into a real thing or at least when the Roadrunner is running through. So it is this thing of changing and manifesting what you want in the moment. Again, sort of at the extreme of this. And then what that means is that we are designing systems that these can work within. So sometimes that's sort of saying, here is a tidy design system that we're giving AI the ability to use and it can present the right component or interaction for the task at hand. So we're seeing things like that. Salesforce has this thing called Generative Canvas, which is basically like build dashboards on the fly. What are you trying to do? Oh, great. Here's the components from the Salesforce design system. Here's the content from trusted sources in the CRM. Fill it in. And this is like you got something else. Rearrange and reassemble. So it's this kind of thing where for complex applications, as designers, we've had to design all of the possible paths and make users clamber through that information architecture. And right now we have the possibility to actually bring that interaction forward. So content and interaction comes to you. What's the one tiny thing you're trying to do in this complex system? Ask for it.
- [23:23]
Eli Wooler
And it appears to me one potential feature too is almost a reversion to the era where we had GeoCities or MySpace, where anybody can make anything essentially now in a more high fidelity manner. But it might just open up creativity in a lot of ways, where you can make something custom in a few minutes, you can share it. And I think there's kind of this negative future where creativity is taken over by AI, but there's a more positive one where it just opens it up for more people too, which is an interesting way to go.
- [23:51]
Josh Clark
Those are the two things, right? It's like, here's what I can use AI as a tool and as an automator. That's one. And it Tends to replace people. And then there's, here's something that I can use that as a material and make entirely new things, which we're only beginning to explore. And that's exciting. One of the things that we do is we make a fair amount of kind of playful experiments, again as part of the practice of getting used to what the material can do, what's possible, what's newly possible. So we do a lot of things with play. So this is something that we made called Sentient Scenes. And the whole idea of it is that you can go in and describe a scene and it will act it out. We've got a few suggestions here. So if you tell it the submarine descends, it's going to change its color and tone and behavior to actually act out this scene. So it goes through and now it's like, all right, I'm going to be a submarine now, and it changes the vibe. Or I can be like, HAL 9000 can be the thing, and it's going to tell a little story and a little scene and change its behavior. The thing that's fun about this is it's doing a few things. One is, what is an intelligent interface beyond chat, where it's sort of like changing tone, style, content, behavior in response to user intent, either expressly stated or implicit. And it's sort of something that, how do we have personality and presence without necessarily pretending to be human? Right. What are we able to do and able to sort of discern meaning beyond just the expressed words? Like here, it's sort of getting. Oh, it's getting some emotional context and mood into what I'm doing here. And it's taking a seed of an idea and turning it into a story. This is obviously a little toy, but I think that it has big implications as we think about, oh, how can we take little cues and actually really change the spirit of the interaction where it could be content or structure or the actual behavior of the system itself. What. What happens when you bring this to an enterprise dashboard environment of changing the nature of the experience based on these cues? And in this case, this was something that we're telling it to come up with four or five different things and then insert it into the page. And Veronica, how long did it take us to make this?
- [26:16]
Veronica Kindred
Like a day? Not too long at all.
- [26:18]
Josh Clark
Yeah, I mean, just sort of really kind of easy experiments that are like, oh, what becomes possible texturally with this? So this is the kind of thing that we make often and bring back into our sort of serious product experiences as sort of Ideas and material. But I think a big part of what we try to do is just play a lot and just develop an intuition for what this stuff can be and the new kinds of things that you can make with it. Because that, what I showed there, that's not the old website and it has some interesting ideas of like, how does that change interaction on demand or content or structure?
- [26:58]
Aaron Walter
You know, in many ways, what the two of you have been describing is a different way of designing that is non native to many designers, which is letting the user shape the interaction that makes sense for her, for him, in that moment. And designers, we really like to have control. We like to design the space. You know, there's lots of famous stories of architects who not only designed the home, but they design all the furniture and they tell you how you're supposed to live in that house. And that transfers over to a lot of software designers too. They want you to work in a certain way. It's just sort of the nature of our medium is that there's a lot of control. And now this is an era where control needs to be seeded back to the user. And we have to think maybe a little differently. How should we be thinking about our work differently? And I can't help but wonder, how do design systems fit into this picture?
- [27:56]
Veronica Kindred
Right? You got to give the design systems a shout out right about now. I think one of the interesting things to think about is there's no more happy path, right? Like, there's no correct flow for a user to go through in a website. One of like, the metaphors that I use is if we can build Legos now, we can design a LEGO set, but like, who knows how someone will put together that LEGO set or how they'll use the pieces afterwards. So you can have these intentions and you can have these building blocks, but ultimately once it's out into the world, you kind of have to respect that it can get used however a user wants for it to be used.
- [28:32]
Josh Clark
This has been like the focus of the last 10 years of the industry, I think is like, we've been through this period of kind of design consolidation, identifying best practices, figuring out consistency and coherence, and how to communicate that among large groups of designers. That's been necessary as companies have brought design in house and now there's like a ton of designers happening, right? That's like why we needed design systems. What I think that's meant though, is that the innovation in design has happened at the process and asset level in a lot of ways for the last 10 years and not at the product level. And so I think that that was necessary as sort of where design lives moved from agencies to in house of how do we sort of create some reliable process around this stuff in design? The exciting thing is like that now we've got this material that's like moving innovation into product with all the kinds of stuff that we're talking about. And now these systems can use the design systems that we've created. You know, we've put a lot of effort into structuring and having common vocabulary for this and we can teach AI to use this stuff. One of the things about large language models that they're really, really good at is they're really good at parsing intent. And that used to be so hard. I mean just like looking at Alexa, great Alexa could understand the words but then didn't know what to do with them unless you had the exact right incantation. Right. That's all totally sorted now with LLMs. They're like, oh, I know what you're talking about. They're not so great at necessarily giving reliable answers, but they are really good at parsing the request and saying, I know now I can go over here and ask this system for it through RAG or through MCP servers. So what it actually becomes that I think is we've been trying to force large language models to be answer machines, to be reliable, to fight their propensity for hallucination. Maybe they'll get better at that, maybe not. What we do know is that they weren't designed to be answer machines. They were designed to understand and continue conversation. So let's use that as the front end of these things to understand what we're doing and then deliver the right design system components. And so as designers, the role then is like not to design the specific path, but design the rules of the system for the system and the user to interact together in ways that are safe and feel cohesive. So just looking at that sentient scenes example, anything is possible. You can ask for anything and it will act it out. So really wide variety of possibility, but it's all cohesive. It's like they all feel similar. It's the same stage and the same actor. The choreography changes on demand, the set dressing changes. But it's still, I understand, it's grounded in that experience and that's exciting. Two things are exciting about it can create a system, a meta system for how user and system interact. But then it's also super fun. It's a challenge and the opportunity to take open ended inquiries and move them into deterministic systems. And so that's an example also of what Sentient Scenes was doing. It's like, ask me anything and I will interpret it and put it into this rendering engine to display what you're asking for. And so with simple design systems, we can do the same.
- [32:02]
Eli Wooler
Do you find that the tools sort of adhere to the design systems or do they deviate? And one thing that just comes to mind based on our experience today is I was using Claude to just help me work through some writing and then all of a sudden it started spouting out this code for something that I had previously worked on. A Rick Rubin site was exploring with it. I was like, why did you render this? It's like, oh, you asked me to in a separate chat thread. So it was like sort of diverting into its own behavior. One point like, okay, that is interesting, but it's not exactly what I was asking for. So yeah, I'm wondering how you kind of adapt to that with these systems.
- [32:34]
Veronica Kindred
If you run it 100 times and like 10 times, it goes off and veers into this kind of wild direction that you weren't expecting. Even though maybe with our Sentient Scenes example, we have it set up so that it should only send back JSON, right? It should only send back a structured object. What happens when it doesn't? You know, like you kind of just have to run it again. And like that's fine when it's something like fun and kind of low stakes. But what happens? What do you expect when you're in a higher stakes situation, like if you're doing financial regulation or air traffic control or something like that, where like you really can't afford that opportunity. And I think that's when it's important to bring in those really, really grounded systems and to keep context windows pretty short so that they're not really able to amalgamate context and information over time and they can kind of just like creating the most direct line possible between the query, the prompt and the output.
- [33:30]
Josh Clark
Yeah, I mean, I think one of the things that we're seeing these systems wrestle with is memory.
- [33:36]
Veronica Kindred
Right?
- [33:37]
Josh Clark
I mean, Eli, your specific example kind of brought that up as we're sort of trying to be like, oh, I know you. So I'm actually smushing together previous conversations into this one.
- [33:48]
Aaron Walter
If you'd like to continue listening to this conversation, you'll need to subscribe@designbetterpodcast.com Once you do, you'll get access to every full length episode, all ad free monthly AMAs with inspiring people in design and tech and recordings of all our past AMAs. The podcast is available to everyone through our scholarship program. If you can't afford a subscription, just email us@subscriptionsecuriositydepartment.com and we'll help you out. Your support makes design better possible. Invest in yourself and the design community.
- [34:23]
Josh Clark
By subscribing@designbetterpodcast.com DesignBetter is supported by MasterClass. I'm a lifelong learner. Though it's been decades since I've been in school, I remain in life's classroom curious about design and tech science, history, filmmaking, architecture, cooking, AI, and lots of other things too. Masterclass is an essential part of my learning. I've gone deeper into each of these subjects by taking masterclasses with people like Herbie Hancock, Frank Gehry, David Lynch, Anna Wintour, Shonda Rhimes, Martin Scorsese, and Jane Goodall, to name just a few. The brightest minds are making my mind brighter and I love it. Whether you want to learn to write better, improve your public speaking, develop a mindfulness practice, enhance your creativity, or become a better cook, masterclass has in depth expertise you can tap into anytime and any place. You can access Masterclass on your phone, computer, smart TV, or even in audio mode. Right now, DesignBetter listeners get an additional 15% off any annual membership@masterclass.com DesignBetter save 15% off@masterclass.com DesignBetter that's masterclass.com DesignBetter DesignBetter is supported by Air Doctor. It's summer and for many of us that means more time indoors trying to escape this heat. But did you know that indoor air can be up to 100 times more polluted than outdoor air?
- [36:05]
Aaron Walter
It's true.
- [36:06]
Josh Clark
See, air quality is a really important thing to my family as we have a kid with asthma and dust and allergens just aggravate his symptoms. We got our son an Air Doctor air filter for his room and we've seen a huge difference in his symptoms. Plus, his room just smells better. You know, like kids can be stinky. Unlike other purifiers, Air Doctor captures invisible particles 100 times smaller than standard HEPA air filters. Air Doctor was voted best air Purifier by Newsweek, so it's no surprise that 98% of Air Doctor customers agree their home's air feels cleaner, safer and healthier. Head to airdoctorpro.com and use promo code Design better to get up to $300 off today. Air Doctor comes with a 30 day money back guarantee plus you get a 3 year warranty and $84 value for free. Get this exclusive podcast only offer now@airdoctorpro.com that's Air D O C T O R P R O COM and use the promo code designbetter.