Design Matters with Debbie Millman

Guest: Ada Limón

Date: March 23, 2026
Episode Theme: The Power of Poetry – Writing, Identity, and Belonging

Episode Overview

This deeply personal episode features Debbie Millman in conversation with Ada Limón, celebrated U.S. Poet Laureate (2022–2025), MacArthur Fellow, and author of seven poetry collections. Millman and Limón discuss Limón’s journey as a poet, her multicultural family heritage, the life-shaping effects of divorce, her writing process, and poetry’s role as truth and connection in a fractured world. Limón reads pivotal poems from her work and reflects on how vulnerability, risk, and joy are the engines of her art.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Ada Limón’s Early Life & Identity

• Growing up between worlds (03:25–11:19):

  • Limón grew up in Glen Ellyn and Sonoma Valley, surrounded by open landscapes and a creative family.
  • Her parents’ divorce at age eight divided her time between two very different households, shaping her sense of self and belonging.
  • Each home had its own culture, rules, and routines: her father's was organized and structured, her mother's was more flowing and artistic.
  • Quote: “I learned...to navigate those two worlds and figure out the ways in which I could feel at ease in both of them.” (09:11, Ada Limón)

• Attachment to the natural world (15:31–18:41):

  • Limón describes herself as sensitive and deeply attuned, finding comfort in nature and small discoveries.
  • The family’s support of her intensity and emotional openness allowed her to channel her feelings into art rather than hide them.

• Heritage & cultural legacy (04:14–05:22):

  • Limón’s grandfather emigrated from Mexico during the revolution, bringing both pride and struggle.
  • Limón reflects on the complexity of assimilation and pride in heritage, and the “holding in” of emotions she sees as a family legacy.

Family, Belonging, and Poems on Childhood

• Duality of family after divorce:

  • Limón recalls carrying her pet mouse Fred between houses, symbolizing her need for consistency amid change.
  • Shares how she learned to hold different parts of herself in each home, and the emotional coping strategies she developed.

• Poems about family:

  • "Before" (08:07–08:58): A wistful look back at the innocence and unity before her parents’ divorce.
  • "Joint Custody" (12:16–14:55): Reframes her dual-family upbringing as “abundance” rather than “brokenness.”
    • “Why did I never see it for what it was? Abundance. Two families, two different kitchen tables...I was loved each place. And so I have two brains now.” (12:37, Ada Limón)

• Longing and loneliness (06:14–07:27):

  • Limón distinguishes between loneliness and separation/longing—she sought connection with the “strangeness” of existence.
  • Quote: “At any moment I was going to break out and start shouting, 'Isn't it so strange to be alive?'” (06:16, Ada Limón)

Mortality, Love, and the Power of Poetry

• Early sense of mortality (18:41–21:21):

  • At 15, Limón confronted the reality of death, which became a main driver in her life and work.
  • Quote: “If that’s it, then I have to love so deeply and tell everyone how much I love them.” (19:47, Ada Limón)

• Embracing vulnerability and risk in writing (25:32–27:26):

  • For Limón, risk is writing what is personally true or emotionally raw—sometimes even expressing love or joy is a risk.
  • Quote: “The riskiest thing I could think of was to write a love poem...what happens if the love fails?” (26:51, Ada Limón)

• On writing and creative imitation (Lucille Clifton, Elizabeth Bishop) (21:42–31:41):

  • Limón was frustrated by the gap between what she could imagine and what she could write as a child.
  • She fell in love with poetry at 15 after reading Bishop’s “One Art,” identifying its dual nature as both a love and loss poem.
    • [Ada reads “One Art”] (27:49–29:46)
  • Discussion of poetic form (Villanelle) and the value of craft, risk, and “writing it” even when it’s hard. (31:47–35:02)

Artistic Journey: From Performance to Poetry

• Theater roots (38:36–41:27):

  • Limón originally saw her future in theater, which appealed to her love of language and performance.
  • Her initial dissatisfaction with her writing skill led her to express creativity through inhabiting other writers’ words on stage.

• Transition to poetry (41:09–45:13):

  • A required elective in college brought Limón back to poetry, where she realized her passion for writing.
  • Encouragement from poet Colleen McElroy led her to pursue an MFA in poetry, despite never having been to New York.

• Geography and creative influence (45:13–46:06):

  • Moving to New York changed her poetic focus—from Californian landscapes to the noise and variety of urban life.

Writing Process and Creative Approach

• Finding poems in different ways (64:33–65:46):

  • Varied process: some poems begin with sound, others with misheard phrases, or stories; some arrive nearly complete, others take years.

• Private vs. public poems (60:17–62:40):

  • Initially wrote for friends and family, but success brought a new sense of visibility and pressure.
  • Limón sometimes “tricks” herself into writing for herself only, later deciding whether to share the poem.

• On healing, infertility, and acceptance (62:40–64:10):

  • Poems about infertility in "The Carrying" began as private poems for healing.
  • Acceptance came in a moment of swimming: “What if my body was just my body? ...These are my edges and I’m whole just as I am.” (63:10, Ada Limón)

Major Milestones & Cultural Impact

• Leaving the day job (54:59–57:08):

  • The death of her stepmother Cynthia was a catalyst for Limón to quit corporate jobs and pursue writing full time.
  • “If I were to pass away at 51, what will my life look like?” “I took a big risk. ...It was like freedom. That’s when I started writing Bright Dead Things.” (54:59, Ada Limón)

• On being U.S. Poet Laureate (65:46–68:50):

  • Limón saw the position as a service, a chance to support all who write poetry, and to bring poetry to the broader public.
  • “As soon as I thought, ‘Oh, this is my chance to learn and be of service,’ then I really enjoyed it.” (67:20, Ada Limón)

• Language, poetry, and public discourse (68:50–71:18):

  • In a time of distorted language, poetry is where clarity, truth, and unity can be restored.
  • “Poetry is meant to belong to everyone.” (70:01, Ada Limón)

• Enduring humanity through poetry (71:18–72:06):

  • Millman and Limón reflect on poetry’s survival through time as evidence of its power to restore meaning and community.

Honoring Family: “The Raincoat” and Artistic Legacy

• The Raincoat (57:29–59:25): Limón reads her poem dedicated to her mother, expressing gratitude for unconditional, often unseen, parental love and protection.

  • “My God, I thought, my whole life I’ve been under her raincoat, thinking it was somehow a marvel that I never got wet.” (59:16, Ada Limón)

• Artistic collaborations (54:26–54:32):

  • Limón’s mother painted the covers for all seven of her books, highlighting a generational creative thread.

“In Praise of Mystery”—Poetry in Space

• Europa Clipper poem (73:04–74:28):
  • Commissioned by NASA, Limón reads her poem "In Praise of Mystery," engraved on the Europa Clipper spacecraft, celebrating our shared wonder and water as connection.
  • “It is not darkness that unites us, not the cold distance of space, but the offering of water...We too are made of wonders, of great and ordinary loves, of small invisible worlds, of a need to call out through the dark.” (73:30–74:28, Ada Limón)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On feeling like an outsider but discovering kinship:
  “I remember finding poems and music and thinking, oh, there are other people that feel this way and they sing about it and they write about it and they make paintings.” (15:31, Ada Limón)
• On loss and love:
  “You can’t really have love without loss.” (30:22, Debbie Millman)
• On risk in poetry:
  “Sometimes the risk is vulnerability. Sometimes the risk is plummeting into a place that feels scary. Or maybe the risk is simply admitting to a type of joy or contentedness.” (25:53, Ada Limón)
• On the breakthrough to making poetry her life’s work:
  “I thought, what if I only have, you know, this many years left? ... I took a big risk.” (54:59, Ada Limón)
• Defining the poet’s role in a destabilized society:
  “We need to have a secular, sacred language that galvanizes us... and that’s poetry. That’s always been poetry.” (69:33, Ada Limón)
• On writing’s universality:
  “Poetry is meant to belong to everyone... It just made me feel like I could get through the day, and that’s pretty powerful.” (70:01, Ada Limón)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Family History & Early Childhood: 03:25–11:19
• Identity, Loneliness, and Nature: 05:22–15:31
• Early Encounter with Mortality: 18:41–21:21
• Writing Process and Early Inspirations: 21:42–27:26
• Reading and Analyzing “One Art” by Bishop: 27:49–35:02
• Theater, Transition to Poetry: 38:36–45:13
• Becoming a Poet: MFA and New York: 45:13–46:06
• Writing about Joy, Not Just Hard Things: 46:27–47:37
• Copywriting and Balancing Day Jobs with Art: 48:21–54:59
• Death of Her Stepmother and Embracing Poetry Fully: 54:59–57:08
• Reading “The Raincoat”: 57:29–59:25
• Navigating Public Acclaim and Private Writing: 60:17–62:40
• Body, Acceptance, and Healing: 62:40–64:10
• Creative Process: 64:33–65:46
• Poet Laureateship as Public Service: 65:46–68:50
• Poetry in Times of Unstable Reality: 69:33–71:18
• “In Praise of Mystery” for NASA Europa Clipper: 73:04–74:28

Closing Reflection

Through personal storytelling, poetry readings, and astute conversation, Ada Limón illuminates how art, risk, and honesty shape not only the individual soul but also foster connection across communities and generations. This episode is a profound meditation on the centrality of poetry to healing, truth, public discourse, and our shared capacity for wonder.

For more:

• Ada Limón’s new book: Against Breaking: On the Power of Poetry
• Website: adalimón.com