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Detox Nation with Sinclair Kennally
Cancer Is a Messenger Not a Death Sentence Heres EVERYTHING You Need To Know | Dr Nasha Winters
00:26:26
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- [00:00]
A
So let me just tell you one big bombshell. It is not a death sentence. Why would you want to wage war on yourself? The battle approach, the war and cancer approach has not served us well. So maybe it's time to have a different dialogue. It's a methodology I've created over 34 years from my own terminal diagnosis. You are far more powerful than you've been led to believe.
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B
Welcome, Naysha. I'm so thrilled to have you here with us.
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A
So awesome to be with you. You are a love. Thank you.
- [00:27]
B
So when we talk about things like we were just joking behind the scenes about our really heavy topics, and I love to talk about poison and mold and parasites and all these really upsetting things and heavy metals because it's all so fixable. I want people to know that and bring some light and some warmth into this journey. And I feel like that's what you do for cancer. And I wonder if you could just share really quickly your philosophy around cancer in 2025 right now.
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A
Wow. Well, gosh, it's really simple. My philosophy around CANC is that it is not a death sentence. That is simply a messenger and an opportunity. That's so beautiful and simple.
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B
So what are we still missing in this international conversation about cancer, since it's still the big C, Very scary word.
- [01:14]
A
The fact that one in two of us are going to experience it in our lifetime. That's the current statistic. The fact that it now overshadows cardiovascular disease as the number one cause of death in industrialized countries, you would think that people would be talking about it more. So a really good example is yesterday we had, like, a meet and greet table thing during lunch, and all the tables were full, like, tables on hormones, tables on thyroid dysfunction, tables on all the topics. I sat by myself at the cancer table.
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B
Whoa.
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A
No one wants to talk about the big C. Wow. And so that's part of what I'm trying to change, is change the narrative. Because our culture has created a cancerous culture of, like, fear. Right. And disconnect and disempowerment and war.
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B
All the war, all the stories, all the metaphors around cancer are war.
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A
It was declared a war on cancer by the Nixon administration in 1971. And we. And understandably so. We were coming out of World War I, Korean War, World War, World War II, Vietnam was still happening. So globally, we had an ethos around war. That was a good metaphor. But the waging of war on cancer hasn't changed outcomes, and things are even picking up. And what's really interesting is when we start to understand that cancer is us. We all have cancer cells all the time. Why would you want to wage war on yourself?
- [02:37]
B
That's a really good question. Yeah. The time that some. The most upset a colleague has ever gotten at me was when I was getting interviewed by a cancer expert on her platform. And I said, because, you know, cancer is the body's healing response, and we want to respect it and work with it. And she got so upset. So what is this disconnect we have in different factions of health professionals today about war on cancer versus, you know, the opportunity of cancer?
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A
I want to honor people's experience with anything.
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B
Right.
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A
We meet our biggest challenges differently. And, you know, I personally get upset or concerned when I see that. Can I throw f bombs here?
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B
Absolutely.
- [03:19]
A
So the. The fuck cancer campaigns. I mean, literally, that is a massive sort of brand. And there's that. People just get into this embattled place. But then at the same token, if somebody does die from cancer, then we're like, they lost their battle. Right? You know, like, all of these different things happen around this concept. And so people get very upset with me as well when I talk about, maybe we should reconsider this, because the battle approach, the war and cancer approach has not served us well. So maybe it's time to have a different dialogue, Especially given the rates of cancer and the outcomes of cancer that we have today compared to even 20 years ago, 30 years ago, 50 years ago, when folks are so triggered by that, There is this sort of perception that this is an enemy, that it's outside of you, and that it's waging war against you, that there's something very personal about it. Instead of recognizing that actually it's trying to tell you something. And so I really loved the language that you chose to use when you got in trouble, is that it really is something. I mean, cancer is the ultimate disconnect and the ultimate breakdown of communication. From organelle to organelle, from cell to cell, from tissue to tissue, organ to organ, meat suit to meat suit. You know, it's just, this is what's happened. And yet we can restore those cancer cells back into the fold of its original community. And we can change the cellular expression in so many ways today versus just killing off bad guys. You can actually remind them that they're part of the whole.
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B
So what is the process of doing that?
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A
Well, you gotta evaluate. You gotta start. You know, a lot of people go, oh, breast cancer. What do you do for breast cancer? What do you do for prostate cancer? What do you do for brain cancer, I get asked these questions. Questions all the time is if they're all distinct entities and as if there is a single target and a single treatment for each and every one of those. That's not the process. We need to scrape away the naming of cancer through its origin, you know, its tissue origin. That would be a really good starting point, is just to say cancer is a process, not an event. And it's. Just because it shows up in the breast cancer does not mean it has a unique personality compared to others. It's the individual that it shows up in that's unique, not the tissue that it shows up in that's unique. And so we start with this test, assess, address. It's a methodology I've created over 30 at this point, 34 years from my own terminal diagnosis, and have helped tens of thousands of other patients directly and hundreds of thousands indirectly to understand the why of the expression of their cancer process. And so we start by evaluating, so testing all the basics, right? Blood tests, tissue and blood biopsies, imaging questionnaires or tests as well, right? Evaluations, even looking at people's adverse childhood events scores, even looking at wearable data like hrv, heart rate variability, looking at continuous glucose monitor data, looking at the environment in, on and around them and testing for that, like functional medicine testing, looking for those poisons, because those are a lot of new things in our world. And then the second step is address, or, excuse me, assess. What does all that data mean? Like what patterns are being elucidated from all that information that we just gathered from testing. And then when we find that pattern, we find various tools to address that pattern. And that's the address part of the show. And at the end of the day, you don't guess. So test, assess, address, don't guess. When you follow that methodology, the tool means very little. At the end of the day, it's the why, right? There's a million hows, but the why is what's important. So I think standard of care fails because it's constantly trying to just say, oh, you have breast tumor, this is the treatment. And it skips the why did you have the breast tumor? And is that treatment specific for your why? And then guess what? That same disconnect happens in the functional and integrative oncology space too. Everyone's like, well, I'll just replace the chemo with high dose IBC or hyperbaric oxygen or something else sexy, whatever the soup du jour is. But they're not asking the why either, right? So we need to change that conversation. Because when it comes down to it, that why is so critical of the what and the how and how do we change the conversation? And that's what ultimately leads to what was this cancer trying to tell you? Like what message was it getting that it's trying to tell you now?
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B
Right.
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A
And what can we do about it?
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B
And for us, we spend so much time working people through, recovering from mold toxicity, right? And all those inflammatory illnesses that come up from being poisoned by heavy metals and those endocrine disruptors and microplastics and parasites. And so we often get people in the gut, you know, disturbance stage. But we also know all the data points to if you don't resolve those early signs, things will progress to cancer because that's those what, those, all those classes of toxins are carcinogens. So what are the early presentations that a body is experiencing root cause issues that you know, before we get to cancer, what are some of those earlier pathogenic stages?
- [08:42]
A
So what's really funny is the first sign of something happening in somebody is actually fatigue. And people are like, wait, what? I mean, if you're a practitioner on this planet today, 80% of your patients are gonna come in and their primary concern is fatigue. And I'm talking the fatigue that is not resolved with a nap. You know, like this is the fatigue that's like just this insidious deep exhaustion. And fatigue is a sign of just energy mismanagement or energy production issues. And that gets traced back to this very ancestral process in our bodies that we've co evolved with for millions and millions of years, which is down to these very little organelles, these little organs within our cells that started out as bacterium that now make up upwards of 20% of our body composition, which is pretty remarkable if you think about that. These little guys are the mitochondria. And what we are taught from like 6th grade biology is that they just simply make ATP energy. Yes, they do that, but they do so much more. And so here's what I think is really interesting about the poisons conversation. When you look at like the poisons, yes, they're a problem, but what are they doing to create a problem? Right? And so what is at the root of each of those poisons? Like this is where the mitochondria come in. So the mitochondria has bigger jobs than just making ATP. It has three major jobs. Its first job is it receives a lot of information. So it is constantly scanning and taking in food, water, light, nutrients, poisons, antibiotics, you know, stress, all the things, it's the collector of the information putting in on and around you of people, places and things. That's the very first shot of the mitochondria, right? It's surveillance, right. Its second job is translation. That part of the job is what does all that stuff mean?
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B
Right?
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A
So like, wow, there's a lot coming in at us today more than ever before, in just a matter of a couple generations. We have things exposed to our bodies today that never existed two generations ago and more on a daily basis coming at us, right? So that's a big piece. So the translation says, whoa, there's a lot of information in overwhelm. The third job is communication, signaling out to tell the surrounding organelles, the surrounding cytoplasm, the surrounding cells, tissues, organs, you know, construct what to do with that information. Does that sound familiar? To test, assess, address. All of the things that you talk about, all the things I talk about in my terrain 10, these are the things that impact and are information to the mitochondria. And our very longevity is mitochondrial dependent. Our cellular longevity, our tissue longevity, our organ longevity, and our entire chronological longevity is 100% dependent on our mitochondria and the information we feed those mitochondria and how we make sense of that and then what do we do with that information?
- [12:03]
B
I think that's beautifully said. So, okay, that's an early presentation. Is that fatigue and exhaustion, which makes so much sense in a world where we are having. The alarm bells are going up, we must surveil now we're under attack, the threats on the inside. So what are some other early signs that we are on the road towards cancer if we don't do some root cause resolution?
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A
The other symptoms that start early on are things like just you talked about it, digestive changes, the way we absorb or digest or metabolize our nutrients. So are you getting your nutrition appropriately? Maybe you're taking in the right foods, but is it, is it being processed properly inside? So if you start to see symptoms, when you start to get even these low grade symptoms, we often quickly dismiss them or suppress them.
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B
Absolutely.
- [12:51]
A
And so when we do that, the more you dismiss and the more you, you know, the more you suppress, the louder the messages are gonna get. And so we start out with kind of maybe a little bit of fatigue, maybe a little bit of aches and pain, maybe a little digestive, you know, unwellness or imbalance, maybe a little bit of hormonal mishap, until it gets bigger and louder. Suddenly we're taking something to deal with that symptom, it's this sort of trajectory, this natural trajectory that suddenly if you're starting to take like anti inflammatories, that's probably a good clue. If you're needing an antiarrhythmia, probably something that needs to be addressed or an antibiotic, something is not. Your immune system isn't working great.
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B
And it's surveillance and cancer. Yeah, I just need antibiotics once or twice a year. Yeah.
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A
Or this antiviral or this injection or infection or this injection of a particular nature that is going to save us all from a giant pandemic. We reach for these things thinking we're doing ourselves a favor, but we don't understand the price we pay. And the interesting fact that most of these medications we take for our fatigue, for cardiovascular health, for our diabetes, for treatment of, you know, pandemics, et cetera, are actually directly damaging the mitochondria even further. A great website. We could put in your link here of just over the counter, day to day exposures of things that absolutely kill your mitochondria.
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B
Great idea. Let's do it. Let's do it. The thing I'm thinking about is I lost my. I lost an anti cancer.
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A
Sorry.
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B
And she's a really beautiful human. Sorry. I'm gonna try to do this without crying. A really amazing woman who was very much like the grounding rod in the family. The most sensitive one in her generation. Always the one reaching out and helping and doing for others. But when you look at her health history when she was little, as the youngest, you know, being the most sensitive and with the least strategies to deal with the chaos in the home and the ups and downs of everybody else's emotions and then dealing with parasites. I grew up hearing stories about how pinworms would come out of my aunt's rear end at night and she would wake up with them coming out and she'd have to get put in the bath with the antiparasitic thingy. This was the 50s, so who knows what was in that thing.
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A
Yeah, I know.
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B
Wait, sure. You go see if that works. And then taking Accutane as a teenager, it was really hard on her. And then going back on it over and over again because you could not kick adult acne. And just the gentlest, sweetest person, but also never able to settle and feel safe in her own body and regulate her own anxiety. And I'm thinking about all these decades where the medical system was applying tools to her and were they helping or were they actually just adding to her load Big time.
- [15:48]
A
Adding to her load. And this concept of sensitivity. First of all, we are all canaries in the coal mine, right? All of us. So when someone says to me, well, I don't notice if I quit gluten and see a difference or if I lower sugar and don't feel a difference, what that tells me is they have literally normalized their own pathologies or left their bodies for whatever reason, or have justified, you know, their, their experiences to not recognize. You know, one of my patients says it's like putting a, a sticker over, you know, like a piece of tape over a check engine light on your dashboard of your car. This is what we do in our culture, in our world around us. And so like your aunt, like, my guess is her surviving, her upbringing was also to anticipate everybody else's needs, right? To get love and to take care of them first. It's a very common pattern of the type C personality. A lot of people go first, right? And you kind of get the, the crumbs, right? And then when your body starts to say signal, signal, signal, something's going on. The suppressive nature of the types of medications she took, including like, well known Accutane is a known, known carcinogen. Yeah, I see a lot of fallout from that. I still can't believe that's legal. Shouldn't be. But it's like that was again, suppressing the skin is the window to the soul, right? And so something was trying to tell the outside world something's wrong, something's amiss. And so masking that, you know, suppressing that, it's like these things layered up. So where else in her life did she do that? So that hypersensitivity, she was constantly trying to turn down the volume, but it was like it's actually trying to protect you. So those hypersensitive physical experiences, those hypersensitive emotional experiences are a strategy of survival, but we ignore them and suppress them because our culture doesn't allow them to be there. And so then we make judgments around hypersensitivity conditions and hypersensitivity expressions. And yet it's like it's really trying to whisper at you to get your attention before it has to be big enough and loud enough to really hit you over the head.
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B
I definitely resonate with the take care of everybody else and then experience symptoms later piece. And I think that happens for so many of us. You know, you're a gentle soul. You're aware of other people's stresses and your nervous system is trying to co regulate with Them. So, so what are you gonna do? You're gonna self abandon to create safety for them so that you can finally feel safe.
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A
Exactly.
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B
That's a great short term strategy. So you stay alive. It's a terrible way to live, though.
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A
It is. Imagine that happening down at that organelle level. The mitochondria, the concept, you know, mitochondria, there's. We call it mitochondrial cell respiration. That's the energy pathway that happens within those mitochondria. That's its literal name. So what I explain to people is when you suppress or ignore from, you are literally suffocating, not breathing, not inspiring life, which is at the fundamental level of these organelles.
- [19:04]
B
And then you take those signals from the body, which is exquisite in its intelligence, is trying to talk to you about what's needed next. And then you bring that to a medical system who wants to suppress and override and use poison to kick the can down the road. Like we have to talk about the reckoning that's happening right now with cancer. So Accutane. Yes, Known carcinogen. You know, Michael, my husband, took it like we're constantly vigilant about his health for that reason.
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A
Right. Dig deeper.
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B
Yeah, dig deeper. And, but there are so many medical interventions that are actually pushing you into cancerous zones. What are the top concerns you have from the medical industry today?
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A
So in the last, let's say, let's say the last 60, 70 years, we have three things that are big, more sugar than ever in our diets, right? From 5 pounds of sugar per person per year in the 1850s to 75 pounds pounds or 175 pounds per person per year today. New ways of agriculture and animal husbandry. How we raise our food, right, it's more factory than farm these days. And number three, chemicals, toxin chemicals. We have over 80,000 new chemicals in the environment that have not been properly tested and then not even started looking at their interactions. So those are three biggies that have all like insidiously come into play. The next big one, the big, big hit was glyphosate. Okay. Well known, it is now known as a carcinogen by iarc, which is a third party research consortium on cancer. And despite United States being one of the last countries still making it legal, here it is in everything. And it's, it's sequestering grains and legumes. So basically it's what everyone's pushing us to eat more of. And that's where we're getting the highest levels of it. But if you live on a Golf course or on a campus of any kind, and you're going to parks, you're being exposed to this and you're in the agriculture. And then the third big one. No one likes to talk about this elephant in the living room, but things have changed drastically in the last five years and that is this particular spike protein and its interplay on a receptor that both the infection and the injection play on. So we've talked about mitochondria a lot here and I know we're limited in time. So let me just tell you one big bombshell. What we've understood about spike protein today. And now you understand why I'm such a fan of the mitochondria. Spike protein sits directly on complex 1 of the mitochondria, the beginning of the energy production chain. You are suffocating the fountain of life. You are suffocating the very factories that make our energy. You are making our genetics vulnerable when you harm the mitochondria. So we have set a cascade. We have unleashed and opened a Pandora's box that we will likely see outcomes from for generations to come. And it starts at the level of the mitochondria.
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B
So when you say the infection and the injection and these long term interactions, can you elaborate on that a little bit more?
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A
Yeah, I mean, mitochondrial diseases now, cancer, cardiovascular disease, dementia, diabetes, autoimmune dysfunction, you know, mast cell, you know, basically all of the big concerns of western civilization, disease processes are at their fundamental base are mitochondrial, disrupted, driven. And now we've added this massive bomb into the equation that took an already accumulated. Remember I talked about the amount of information coming into the mitochondria. We've taken an already overwhelmed mitochondria on the planet that we're living in and we've added such a load that we may never recover from that.
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B
I think about my own long Covid experience. I accidentally moved into a new molder helm and lost several family members in very traumatic experiences in the span of a year. And got long Covid, you know, I got the delta variant, all the things and I gained 60 pounds after I had already made myself well and was healthy. And he's like, whoa, what's going on?
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A
Danger, danger, danger. It started giving beautiful signals. She was telling you everything. She was, what a gift that that was for you.
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B
Absolutely. Because I already knew what to do. So I was like, okay, I'm not going to override the body. I'm not going to force this off. The solution to pollution is dilution. Why do I have edema? Why I'm adding this adipose tissue. What's going on in the liver? Figured out the mold. Absolutely. Moved all the things, you know, and then trauma release, Trauma release, trauma release. You know, as I did all like the root cause resolution, detox work, but I took three years to take that weight off. You know, if I hadn't done that, I'm convinced that I would already be in pre cancerous stages just because of all the factors.
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A
Yeah. You probably were teetering on that all along.
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B
Yeah.
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A
When you gave yourself new information, you gave those cells new information to work with, and you took the overwhelm and the burden out of the equation. Yeah. And you made for better translation and communication.
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B
My favorite reason to amplify your voice in this world is the hope that you give people and just the complexity and the depth and care with which you approach this big, scary topic. What is the message you want to leave people who are actively in a cancer diagnosis right now? And then what do you most want to share with your colleagues who are tackling cancer?
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A
I'm just gonna look right at you there, folks. So, first of all, you are far more powerful than you've been led to believe. That's first and foremost. Number two, cancer is absolutely not a death sentence. It is here to help you unveil what has been unknown to you. Again, it could be energetic, it could be physical, it could be emotional. It could be all the things Number three, you need to do more than what standard of care is offering. It's not an either or. It's an and in my opinion. But you need to work with somebody who understands how to assess you properly to do the test and assess address model so that you're not guessing, you're not spending tons of money and resources. And number the final thing for my colleagues, I need you to learn this methodology, and I need you to check yourself and your own reaction to a diagnosis of cancer and how you can show up understanding it as a messenger and not as an enemy.
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B
Thank you so much for your advocacy work, sweetie.
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A
Thanks, love. Thank you for the opportunity.
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B
That's so good.
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A
Shoosh. Was that what you were hoping?
- [25:44]
C
Thanks for spending this time with us today. I know these conversations can bring up a lot, and I want you to have room to sit with what you learned and let it land in your own body. If you want more support or you're curious about the next step on your healing path, you can always connect with me. Find me on Instagram hedetoxnation and explore resources mentioned in this episode@detoxnation.com this conversation is shared for education and personal reflection and isn't medical advice. Please always work with your trusted healthcare providers for your care. I'm really glad you're here and I'll see you in the next episode.