Are Relationships a Trap? Simone Milasas Explains “Creationships”

Summary

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Podcast Summary: “Are Relationships a Trap? Simone Milasas Explains ‘Creationships’”

Podcast: Detox Retox with Tom Schwartz
Guest: Simone Milasas – Author, Entrepreneur, Podcaster
Release Date: June 17, 2026
Host: Tom Schwartz (PodcastOne)

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Episode Overview

In this lively and honest episode, Tom Schwartz sits down with Simone Milasas, co-author of “Relationships: Are You Sure You Want One?” to dissect why relationships can feel so difficult, what it means to be in a true partnership, and why Simone believes we should think less about “relationships” and more about “creationships.” Together, they unravel myths about romance, challenge fairy-tale notions, and offer brutally honest, pragmatic tools for cultivating connections that are free, fulfilling, and built on choice—not necessity.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining “Creationship” over Relationship

• Main Idea: Simone introduces the idea of “creationship”—a partnership designed for mutual growth and creation, not just for filling a void or checking a societal box.
  • “The definition of the word relationship actually means the distance between two things. So what if instead of relationship, we ask for a creationship? And with that creationship, you and your partner create at least 20 times more together than what you would alone.” — Simone (21:30)
• Insight: People often enter relationships by default, not by choice, and end up trying to control, fix, or change their partner instead of enjoying mutual growth.

2. Relationships: Choice, Not Necessity

• Question Everything:
  • “The whole idea of the book is being questioned. Like, what if relationship wasn't a necessity, it was a choice?” — Simone (12:20)
• Honesty and Courage: It takes bravery to choose what's really right for you—even if that means ending things or living unconventionally.

3. The “Work” of Relationships—What Kind of Work?

• Love alone isn’t enough; effort, communication, and conscious participation are essential.
  • “I think the Beatles, I love what they said when they said, all you need is love. But unfortunately, there should be a little asterisk, right? It’s love plus effort. Good communication.” — Tom (11:06)
  • “There’s only one thing you want hard in life... Relationships take work.” — Simone (10:30)
• Vulnerability, gratitude, and intentionality set great partnerships apart from ones that merely coast.

4. The Five Elements of Intimacy

Simone’s practical approach centers on these five elements:

1. Trust
2. Honor
3. Allowance
4. Gratitude
5. Vulnerability

• She suggests post-it reminders and daily reflection to cultivate these qualities with oneself first and partners second:
  • “If you’re not grateful for you, but you expect somebody else to be grateful for you, that’s a lot of pressure on somebody else.” — Simone (21:11)

5. Breaking Up, Making Up, and Dating App Fatigue

• On Breakups: Even with compatible partners, it's healthy to ask, “Have we done what we were meant to do together? Is it time to leave?” (40:01)
• On Dating Apps:
  • “I went on all the dating apps, which is such hard work—like terrifying, a full time job.” — Simone (19:14)

6. Practical Tools & Personal Stories

• Give First, Receive Later: Simone shares a story about resolving resentment by intentionally focusing on her partner’s needs—a move that led him to reciprocate and reignited warmth. (17:07)
• Individuality in Partnership: Allowing your partner (and yourself) to maintain passions, hobbies, and friendships outside the relationship is key:
  • “You don’t have to do everything together. Let your partner go do and be whatever it is he wants… so he can be more of him.” — Simone (30:46)

7. Modern Trends: Situationships, Open Relationships, and Custom Love

• Freedom vs. Honesty:
  • “We’re in a time, Tom, where we can choose what works for us… But you gotta be honest with yourself about what that is.” — Simone (35:00)
• Many embrace situationships or open relationships, but Simone urges honesty—don’t settle or bend just to fit current trends or partner expectations.

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

On Relationship Ruts:

• “A lot of people enter relationships because they think they're supposed to. Then they spend years trying to change control each other instead of just actually enjoying each other.” — Tom (01:49)

On Self-Knowledge Before Partnership:

• “So I looked at business, money, relationships, sex, my body... What would I like to create with all of these? I think you need to get really brutally honest with yourself and ask yourself, what is it you desire?” — Simone (19:05)

On Allowance and Processing Differences:

• “Men do process different, and they need the space. Man cave is a real thing. Women want to talk it out, men maybe have to process. It's about being in allowance, not changing who you are.” — Simone (24:12)

On Waves of Gratitude:

• “You only get waves of gratitude, like you’re grateful, but then there’s something that shows up...this tsunami of gratitude. When I have that for someone... I tell them.” — Simone (36:34)

On Rom Coms, Vulnerability, and Real Life:

• “What if we also didn’t have to find that [vulnerability] in a film and we were willing to be it?” — Simone (39:45)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Relationship Detox Introduction and Core Episode Theme – [01:49]
• Simone’s Background and Writing the Book – [08:06–12:07]
• Why Relationships Are Hard & The Marathon Metaphor – [10:10]
• Manipulation as an Inevitable Dynamic – [12:07]
• Moving Beyond Relationship: The Creationship Concept – [21:04]
• The Five Elements of Intimacy – [21:04–22:41]
• Men vs. Women Emotional Processing – [23:18–25:32]
• Giving Partners Space, Avoiding Codependency – [30:06–30:46]
• Breakups, Honesty, and Ending Well – [40:01]
• Modern Love: Situationships and Open Relationships – [33:52–36:11]
• On Gratitude and Celebrating Partners – [36:11–37:56]
• On Rom Coms, Vulnerability, and "Waves of Gratitude" – [38:30–39:45]
• Concluding Remarks on Love’s Labor – [41:07–42:17]

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Conclusion: Takeaways & Next Steps

• Creationships are about creation, co-elevation, and multiplying joy—not just filling gaps.
• Self-awareness and honest reflection are non-negotiable before and during partnership.
• Relationships take work, but this “work” is really about communication, gratitude, vulnerability, and giving your partner the freedom to be their full self.
• Modern relationships are customizable—but only succeed if both partners are radically honest about their needs.
• Celebrate gratitude in real time, embrace the waves as they come, and remember: vulnerability is the actual secret sauce.

Find Simone:

• Choice, Change & Action Podcast
• Instagram/Facebook/Web: @simonemilasas

Host Sign-off:
Tom thanks Simone for her candor, energy, and insight, wishing listeners more “summers in Europe”—and in life, more moments of play, gratitude, and conscious choice.

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Transcript

[Tom Schwartz]

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[Simone Molasses]

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[Tom Schwartz]

Relationships. Why do they have to be so hard? Are they hard today? Why don't we do a little relationship detox? A refresher that feels fresher. A little relationship refresher. That sounds fresh. I'm just checking in with you. How's your relationship, guys? Are you happy or are you just comfortable? Are you in love or are you just kind of coasting? Am I trying to plant seeds of doubt? A lot of people enter relationships because they think they're supposed to. Then they spend years trying to change control each other instead of just actually enjoying each other. Easier said than done, right? Relationships take work. But I'm asking you. Yes, you. How are you? Are you growing together? Are you just simply avoiding being alone? Listen, I still definitely have room to grow. I don't know. When it comes to feelings, I kind of subscribe to the School of Joey. You know what I'm talking about? Yeah. These are just feelings. They're going to go away. I got to work on my communication skills. Yes, but, yeah, we're checking in today with author, entrepreneur, podcaster, creator, all around champion for living your best life, Simone Molasses. She co authored the book Relationships. Are you sure you want one with Brendan Watt? And trust me, it's gonna make you ask some uncomfortable questions, but, like, in a constructive way. Yeah. I had such a good time chatting with Simone. It's been a hell of a week. A whirlwind of a week. Zesty, bountiful, beautiful. A week of love and laughter. My God. Fresh off Puerto Rican Day parade in New York City. Vibes are immaculate here. Fresh off the grand opening of the Vanderpump Hotel in Las Vegas. Oh, my God, it is a vision. This is your sign to book that room. Viva Las Vegas. Dtmf Debitar Mas. Photos. Yes. I should have taken more photos. I say that every time. Damn it. I'll post some from you guys, but it's just been such a gorgeous weekend. The Vanderpump Hotel is just absolutely stunning. Industrial, romantic vibes, super sexy, nostalgic. Felt like I was in Villa Rosa chilling up Lisa's room. But yeah, huge shout out to the whole team. Lisa, Ken, Pandora, Nicolain, everyone at Caesars. Jason, you guys crushed it. By the way, the ride from the airport, it was weird because it was me, Kiana, Sandoval, James Kennedy, his pregnant girlfriend, and Lala all in the same car. And Lala was like, oh, I never thought we'd all be in this car together again. Yeah, man, it was a flashback. It was a trip. But we had such a good time and it was really nice catching up with everyone, man. Life has a funny way of bringing people back together when you least expect it. But, yeah, man, we got Jiggy at Bar Gigolo, which is named after the legendary Jiggy. I missed that little guy. And then it went to Jasmine and Melissa's wedding in Jersey. It was fucking fabulous. 10 out of 10, no notes. It was just perfection. Everyone cried during the vows. It was utterly gorgeous. Out. Food. Forget about it. Band, Forget about it. Love was in the air. I love love. I love you. I've always loved love. But you know what? I was reminded watching Jasmine, Melissa's wedding, Love isn't just like the finish line, okay? It requires upkeep. You gotta tend to the garden of love, right? Gratitude, respect takes maintenance, right? Communication, when you'd rather just shut down and be avoidant calling myself out. Yeah, man, it's effort. When shit gets crazy, life gets busy. I wish love was all you needed. But, yeah, man, we're gonna get into it. We're gonna have a little chat, a little relationship refresher. They say relationships require participation. Simone likes to call them creationships. I love that I stole that term. I'm in a beautiful creation ship right now, and I hope you are, too. But without further ado, let's get into it with Simone,

[Simone Molasses]

Deal with winter that well, but I'm off to Europe next week, so.

[Tom Schwartz]

That sounds fabulous. Gallivanting in Europe. Wait, what part of Australia do you live in?

[Simone Molasses]

Queensland, in the Sunshine Coast.

[Tom Schwartz]

Very nice. I've been to Coober Pedy. Sydney. Where else? Adelaide pd. Yeah. Cooper Pedy. I filmed a TV show out there. It was called Stars on Mars. They essentially created an analog for Mars, and they brought celebrities from all walks of life, and we had to compete and try and save the world, essentially.

[Simone Molasses]

Okay. Cooper Pedy would be a good place for a Mars setting.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah, exactly. Well, this is so cool. I won't take up too much of your time, Simone. Do you want to introduce yourself?

[Simone Molasses]

Yeah. Well, I'm Samoa Melises, and I'm from Australia. Although I think that the world is my home. I travel, like, eight, nine months of the year, and I've done so many things in my life. I would say I've lived a very colorful life is the way I like to describe it, because I really have no place to judge anyone. Been there, done that. And my main priority would be to empower people to know that they know that there's. There's so much more possible on this planet than what most people are choosing. And I'd like to. You know, I travel the world doing seminars, and I've written a bunch of books. And I would really like people to have the freedom that they can have by just choosing to be them.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yes. You do so many different things. You're an entrepreneur, an author, podcaster. I have your book right here, if you're cool with it. I have a book right here. It's called Relationships. Are you sure you want one? Oh, yeah. I got your book. And I got the intimate playing cards, too.

[Simone Molasses]

I got the funny, too. But have you played yet?

[Tom Schwartz]

No, I have not played yet. I just cracked the case and I took a look at a few of them. I was cackling. But they're great, right? It's fun. I love to introduce something fun like that into a relationship. Although it's been a long time. Long time since I've done anything like that. But they're fun, right? They're cheeky.

[Simone Molasses]

Well, they are cheeky, but can I tell you how we started them because they're soft play and hard play, and because I. With my lover, we were playing this deck of cards that we brought somewhere, and it was so, like, the card that we pulled was like, you know, like, let's go sort of thing. And he looked at me and he was like, but I'm not even hard yet, you know? So then we. We sat down and we started talking about, like, me being me. I was like, you know what? We should create something. And so we created. So if you look at the cards, there's a whole lot of soft play. So the whole idea is, it's the foreplay, you know, and then you can move to the hard play. So, yeah, we've had a lot of good response from it. It's very cool. It makes me smile.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yes, it made me smile, too. I was laughing before we started this interview. And I gotta be honest, your book, it's got me thinking about A Midsummer's Night Dream. The course of true love never did run smooth. Why the heck, Simone, are relationships so hard? Why are they so hard? Do they have to be hard?

[Simone Molasses]

You know what? I don't think they have to be hard. I mean, as the friend of mine says, there's only one thing you want hard in life. So I think they work. And I think that's the piece that people don't get. You know, you've got to put the work in. Like, even Warren Buffett, like, financially. I remember listening to this interview one day with him, and this guy was saying, why do you think people don't listen to you? And he said, because people want to make money overnight, and it's a marathon, not a sprint. And I think the same thing with relationships. It's like, you know, to get close to someone, to be vulnerable, to be trusting with someone. You've got to put the work in.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah, you got to put the work in. Listen, I. I think the Beatles, I love what they said when they said, all you need is love. But unfortunately, there should be a little asterisk, right? A little asterisk, because it's love. Plus effort. Good communication. It does take work. Although that word has a negative connotation in the confines of a relationship sometimes. But, like, I don't know, maybe today I thought it'd be fun just to chat. Maybe we can redefine the perfect relationship, if there even is such a thing. A little, like, relationship 101 refresher course. Maybe my goal for this chat would just to be help anyone listening who's maybe not in a Toxic relationship, but just not in the best place and not communicating clearly and it's causing, you know, resentment or avoidance. And I don't know if I can just affect one couple today with you, I would be very, very happy. So. Yeah. So wait, what was the inspiration for this book? Relationships. Are you sure you want one? And if you're listening.

[Simone Molasses]

Okay, yeah. So I wrote this with my ex, which was very funny because we were in America and we broke up as we were launching this book. And we. All these TV shows and everything that were planned, and my PR agent nearly had a heart attack. And I was like, don't worry about it. It's fine. Because the whole idea of the book is being questioned. Like, what if relationship wasn't a necessity, it was a choice. And we're still really good friends, so it's fine. But we were using, like, access. Consciousness is the tools that I use, and I travel around the world doing seminars with that. And so we were living together for eight years. We used the tools of access. And can I tell you, like, once you read it, because I know that I think you only just got it. The only reason why our relationship continued for that long is because we were willing to be vulnerable because we were willing to use these tools. And I mean, one of the tools in the book is about manipulation. And most people go, I don't want to manipulate my partner, but you actually are. Every time you flirt, every time you ask them for something, every time you, you know, you're. You're trying to convince them of something, you're manipulating them. So it's like, you know, grab hold of that and use that as one of the tools. Like, there's so many different things. So the inspiration was to inspire people to know that there is a choice with relationship, that it's not a necessity.

[Tom Schwartz]

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[Simone Molasses]

Hi friends, it's Michelle Maros, co host of Life Happens with Barb and Michelle. If you're navigating change, growth, relationships, stress, or simply trying to figure life out one day at a time, this podcast is for you. My mom, Barb and I are a mother daughter duo who talk honestly about real life experiences, the messy moments, the ups and downs, and everything in between. Each week we share heartfelt conversations, laughs and practical tools to help people feel a little more grounded and and a lot less alone as they navigate life's twists and turns. Because life happens to all of us and we truly believe we're all in it together. Be sure to follow, rate and review Life Happens wherever you get your podcasts and come ride the wave of life with us. Wow, you're still drinking soda?

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah, it's Zevia Creamy Root Beer.

[Simone Molasses]

Isn't soda full of sugar and bad?

[Tom Schwartz]

Nah, Zevia doesn't have sugar or fake like other sodas.

[Simone Molasses]

Okay, but does it taste like.

[Tom Schwartz]

Here, try one.

[Simone Molasses]

Oh this is delicious.

[Tom Schwartz]

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[Simone Molasses]

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[Tom Schwartz]

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[Simone Molasses]

Yeah, I'd say it's pretty pragmatic. Yeah. Well, there's just one tool that I remember. At one point I was really cranky with my partner and I didn't, I can't even remember why, you know, and you just like. And I just wanted him to make everything about me. And we live across the road from the beach and I thought, I'm just going to go for a walk on the beach. And I did. And my friend Gary Douglas, who's the founder of Access Consciousness, called me and he goes, hey, what's up? And I was like, rah, rah, rah, you know, and he said, I tell you what, go home and make everything about him. And I said, but I don't want everything to be about him. And he said, I'm telling you, go home and do this. And I walked in the house and Tom, I'm not kidding you. I was like, hey. And you know, making everything about him, how is he? What's going on for him, blah, blah, blah. Within 10 minutes he was like, hey, can I make you a drink? What can I cook you for dinner tonight? And then he started making everything about me. And I was like, holy shit, this stuff actually works. Yeah, it was like, but it's pragmatic.

[Tom Schwartz]

It's pragmatic. And yes, just like, just a little bit of condensed distilled attention, you know, just like, like you said 10 minutes. Just reminding your partner that you're interested in them asking him questions about their day. How are they just being fully invested and committed in that moment can go such a long way. Like did with you and that example you just provided. Really? I just, I don't know, I've, I've, I'm. I feel like I've, I've been surrounded by a lot of people who are in relationships and I think they're just in one because they feel like that's the thing to do. Maybe they're not super compatible and I don't even know if they love each other. But they're scared to let go. They're slightly codependent. Maybe they're insecure about, or they're having self worth issues about finding another partner. The sunken cost fallacy. They've been together 5, 10, 15 years and are like, it's, you know, we've invested too much, I can't let go of this relationship. But sometimes, I don't know, I've just been, I've been. I feel like I've beared witness to this a lot in my life.

[Simone Molasses]

Me too. And it's, you know what, Tom? It's a choice. And I think there's a level of bravery and courage for you to choose what is actually working for you. I mean one of the things when we, when I broke up, when we broke this relationship up and I think it was in like 2020 when you know, I was in Hungary, Budapest, Hungary, and I had to fly home and I was at home and I was sort of like, okay, what do I do now? Like what, what's up now? You know? And I went on all the dating apps, which is such hard work that is like a full time job, like terrifying doing a dating. It's, it's so full on. And I was like, wow, this is this my life now, you know. But I actually sat down, Tom, and I went, what would I like everything to be like? Because you tend to create when you're in a relationship too. You know, money, business, like everything sort of rolls into one. So I looked at business, money, relationships, sex, you know, my body, geographical. What would I like to create with all of these? And I started asking myself questions and just writing things down because a lot of the times too, people galump like they put relationships and sex together, but it doesn't have to be together. We all know you can have sex without being in a relationship, but a lot of people will choose relationship to have sex rather than go, hey, you know what, what if I found a lover? What if I found this? Like, what are you actually asking for? And I think you need to get really brutally honest with yourself and ask yourself, what is it you desire?

[Tom Schwartz]

Yes, yes. I think sometimes, you know, two half empty people. Wait, that sounds too harsh. Not half empty, but maybe not fulfilled or sure of who they want or what they want out of life. They find each other. They, they, they, they, they try to fill that void and it can t turn into like a, a, like a toxic stew of, I don't know, resentment and animosity long term. So I don't know, would you say like you like it's, it's very important to, to find yourself, put the work into yourself, fall in love with yourself before falling in love before you fall in love with someone else. Right. Is that trite or.

[Simone Molasses]

Yeah, no, I think, I think it's true. And there's a tool that we have in the book that we talk about in access consciousness as well. It's called the five elements of intimacy. And we've all spoken about gratitude and it's being thrown around a lot. And yet the five elements are trust, honor, allowance, gratitude, and vulnerability. Now what I started doing was I wrote these on post it notes and I had them on my bathroom mirror. So every time I was brushing my teeth, you know, at least twice a day I looked at them and I read them out and I was like, okay, so where am I not being trusting of myself? Honoring of myself in allowance of myself? Because we tend to judge ourselves so quickly. Having gratitude for myself and being vulnerable. And then I also would like do the same thing with my body because I think if we have that with ourselves, Tom, then we can have that with someone else. But if you're not grateful for you, but you expect somebody else to be grateful for you, it's like, that's a lot of pressure on somebody else. So what if you came in relationship and you're like, like you said, you are in love with yourself. You're, you're whole. You're not missing a piece of you. Maybe a few pieces are missing piece, maybe. But for me it's like also like, if you look at the. The definition of the word relationship actually means the distance between two things. So what if instead of relationship, we ask for a creationship? And with that creationship, you know, you with your partner, you create at least 20 times more together than what you would alone. That's what I'd be asking. Are you creating more with this person or are you creating less? Like, why would you settle for less? There's so much possible on this planet.

[Tom Schwartz]

Wait, I love that word. Did you just coin that in real time right now? Creationship, or is that an established thing? I love that.

[Simone Molasses]

We did it in a friend's lounge room in Texas, actually. We were talking about it one day and we were like, you know what? It's more like a creation ship. So. Yeah. And we started talking about it and people love it because they get it tomorrow. Because you know, when you hear the truth, you, you, you, you go towards that, right? And it's like. And when someone's lying or saying something, you sort of had this energy of this like. And you go back. Same thing with creation shit. I think when people hear it, they go, yeah, that's actually what I'm looking for. That's what I'm asking for. I'll have that.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah, I think, you know, not to make it about me and not men in general. I know Men aren't. Men aren't a monolith. I know, but, like, I feel like I. Obviously, men and women have different emotional languages. I think one of my biggest problems is just communication. I'm a talker. I'm a great listener. I've matured so much. Like, I think it's. It's like women have this gift. Again, I don't want to make generalizations of, like, emotional processing in real time, which. It takes me, like, a day or two. I hope that's not pathetic to, like, process it, find my words, and articulate exactly how I feel while my girlfriend can do it in a moment. And it sounds so eloquent. It's almost Shakespearean, you know, it's so beautiful and poignant. I don't. Is that a tool that I can foster? I think it is.

[Simone Molasses]

I think. Okay, so the five elements of intimacy. One of them is allowance. For me, that would be being an allowance, because, I mean. And same thing. I don't want to generalize, because there's some. Some women function more like men, and some men function more like women. Right. And it's. You know. But men do process different, and they need the space. Like I always say, man cave is a real thing. You know, it's like, quite often, I know a lot of men who just go play video games. Like, that's how they process. But then the woman's thinking, oh, they're off playing video games. They don't care about me. No, they. They actually require that space to process in a different way. Whereas a woman just wants to talk about things out. And then, of course, as soon as a woman starts talking about something, most of the time, the man goes, oh, I need to fix this. Like, I know what I say to some of my partners. I've gone, hey, I just want to talk about this, but I don't need you to do anything about it. Just listen. And as soon as you do, they like, oh, okay, good. I don't have to fix anything. I don't have to make sure everything's okay. So I think it's just more. Tom is not trying to change how you. How you be or who you be. It's more being an allowance of it. And also, that could be the thing. Hey, you know what? I just need the data. Process this. Are you okay with that? Like, I would go more that angle than you trying to change how you are. Because how you are should be amazing.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah. And I think in the moment sometimes. And I totally don't blame the other person. It can Be misinterpreted as avoidance or like a cold, you know, just like. Yeah. Like just reeling back or it might seem. Yeah. Cold or detached. But for me, personally, I just. I need a moment to process it, think about it, usually sleep on it. And I like what you said a moment ago. You're like, sometimes this is like the secret sauce I've discovered so far in life. I'm in my 40s now, but just shut up and listen. I know that's a little crude or just some. I think. Right.

[Simone Molasses]

Yeah. I look. Just to add to it, though, I think a lot of women, like, including myself, when my partner used to go off and there was a certain place in the house when he sat there, I knew he wanted to be on his own. But of course, I did that thing, you know, going, oh, my God, have I done something wrong? You know? And that's what I think. That's the piece that. Where people screw it up is because then they make it personal when it's not personal. And so then what I learned to do was I just check in with him and just say, hey, are you good? Is there anything I can get you? Do you need anything? And he'd be like, no, I'm good. And then I would let him come to me, whether that was the next day after he slept on it or was it an hour later or a day later or whatever. But don't make it personal. It's like we all go through stuff and we all process things differently. So I think it's. That's the piece that you really need to get, is being allowance of yourself and your partner of how they be.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah, I like that. I like that. I heard about this term called decentering. I don't know if you know this term, but it's. It's essentially where you can step outside yourself, put yourself in the other person's shoes without getting defensive or making excuses. And I think I'm getting. I think I'm evolving, Simone. I'm getting better at that. But it's like, I always like to add context and nuance, but it can come across as, you know, being defensive or making excuses. And, yeah, I'm just. I think I'm getting better at that. Just shutting up, listening, putting myself in the other person's shoes and being empathetic, compassionate, and nodding my head yes. And I know this is probably so simple for some people, but it took me 40 years.

[Simone Molasses]

You get it when you get it and you choose it when you choose it and you hear it when you hear it, look, I'm 56 and I wouldn't want to be in my 20s again for anything. Definitely. I mean, that old saying of I wish I knew then what I knew now, but it's like the way I approach relationships or creationships now is completely different to the way I did in my 20s. For sure.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah, Yeah. I used to be guilty of. I used to be the most conflict avoidant person ever. Like, if, if I felt tension rising, I would evacuate emergency, you know, pull the rip cord. I would have to step away. Like, I just, I, I, I, I, I would see not red. My brain would just shut down. But I'm getting to a point where I can actually communicate and talk it out. And I'm just, I'm proud to report that to you and to the world right now. I think I'm finally evolving at the late age of 40 something now.

[Simone Molasses]

My God, that's amazing. It's brilliant. And say, and that's, that's what I would say is the being vulnerable.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah.

[Simone Molasses]

It's like you've got to be vulnerable to actually say where you're at and what's going on. And no matter what, no matter what it is. That's actually. But that's the work. You know, we mentioned right at the beginning that relationships actually take work. That's the work. Like, what if it was easy? What if it was more of a play? It's like, okay, I'm not gonna have any barriers up. I'm not gonna shut myself down. I'm actually gonna be really present here and maybe say what's going on for me? But also ask yourself a question, like, if you're not looking at it, what are you avoiding by not having the conversation? Or what are you avoiding by not listening and shutting up? I love that that you said that. Cause that's really important.

[Tom Schwartz]

I'm obsessed with creationships. But a healthy relationship should create more freedom, not less, right?

[Simone Molasses]

Yeah, but with everyone, Tom. Like the person that you're, you know, in a relationship with, that you're copulating with, et cetera. But what about the people you work with? What about your friends? Like, when they walk into your house, does it put a smile on your face and you're like, yeah. And the conversations you have, I mean, yes, we all go through stuff. So then you should, for me, it's like being there when someone is going through some stuff.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah.

[Simone Molasses]

So it might not be this joyful occasion, but what if you surrounded yourself by people who had your back, trusted the universe, and you were creating more Every day because of the people that you had around you.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yes. It's a beautiful thought. And a lot of people don't have that. A good support system. Someone who allows someone. A partner who allows you just to have your individuality, your other friends outside of them ambitions, Weird Hobb without judgment and stuff like that. Yeah, because they can. Well, you know, in an insecure relationship, it can be interpreted as, you know, checking out or being detached or not loving the other person, but also like

[Simone Molasses]

letting the other person, you know, do what they want to do. Like, I remember when my ex. It was probably about 18 months into our relationship and we live across the road from the beach and he loves surfing and he went out surfing and he came back and was surfing for like about three hours and he walked in the house and he looked at me and I went, what's up? And he went, are you angry at me? And I said, why would I be angry at you? And he went, because I've been surfing for three hours. And I went, but you love surfing. And he went, yeah, but. And his ex would have yelled and screamed at him because he was doing something that she wasn't involved in. And I was like, hey, I love when you go surfing. I get to spend time on my own, which I really like too. Like, I like my own space. And you come back and every molecule, you molecule in your body is just clanging. And you're so happy and joyful. Why would I not want that for you? And I think that's also a like a grown up conversation with couples too. You don't have to do everything together. Like let your partner go do and be whatever it is he wants to go and do and be so he can be more of him. That's also part of creationship.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah. Relationship that's lacking good communication and maybe there's some insecurity, you know, when you go surfing for three hours and the other person oftentimes it's interpreted. It can be interpreted as escapism from the relationship or, you know, avoiding hard conversations and. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I'm thinking about it in real time.

[Simone Molasses]

But it could. You're having fun in the ocean. Yeah.

[Tom Schwartz]

Can it just be as easy as that? Simone, are you good at taking your own advice?

[Simone Molasses]

Yeah, now I am. Now I am, Tom.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah.

[Simone Molasses]

In my 50s. Yes. Yeah. But. But the only reason why I'm good at taking my own advice, Tom, is because I've chosen some really shitty things, you know, like I think for a long time And I'd say in my 20s and my 30s, I definitely chose men who judged me and my body. But I chose them because I had so many judgments of myself and judgments of my body. And I noticed when I chose them, you know, it was like this, like, see, that must be real. Like I'm not as, I'm not that great. And so I was surrounding myself by people who, who were judging me and, and I, it's taken me a long time to realize, hey, that's not actually working for me, that's not what I would like. And people say they'd like to be surrounded by people who are, you know, are kind, et cetera. But kindness is a very vulnerable thing to receive too. Like, are you truly willing to receive someone in your life who's actually kind? And I have, I've had this, I call him my lover because I'm not looking to live with someone again at the moment. I don't know if I ever will. And I travel so much, et cetera. And I have, I enjoy him so much, but he's incredibly kind and I'm so grateful to pull that in and choose that rather than what I've chosen before. So yeah, I do take my own advice, but only because I've been there, done that. I've chosen some really shitty things and some great stuff, you know.

[Tom Schwartz]

Well, I can see it in your eyes when you're talking about it. It seems like a beautiful thing, Whatever. However you want to define the relationship that you have right now. What, what's your, what's your thoughts on the rise of situationship culture? Does it worry you? Does it, does it concern you?

[Simone Molasses]

Look, I have a 22 year old niece, so, which is really interesting and she's so hilarious. She's in a camper van traveling around Australia at the moment in fire twirling and you know, with her boyfriend with long dreadlocks and like she's living that life and I, I'm like, I, I was there. But she's told me so many different stories and about different situations and I think there's, there's something really open in all of them. You know, like they can, you know, one week they might be with a girl, then the next week they're with a guy or you know, they, they change it up all the time. And then the one thing I've seen though is if any of them actually wanted to get married and have kids, that becomes a little problematic because that's not a common occurrence. So finding somebody else, I think there's A freedom in it. But I think you again, you have to have that like brutal honesty with yourself of what it is that you would like to have and choose. Because if it's not what you want to choose, don't choose it. Just because other people are choosing situationships and having it be like that, it doesn't mean it works for you. It's like, you know when people say, oh, we're in an open relationship. 99% of the time if I hear someone say that one of them wants the open relationship and the other one doesn't, but they're putting up with it, that should like if you're going to have an open relationship, have two people that desire that, not one. And again, I think this, I think we're in a time Tom, where we can choose what works for us. Like a woman no longer needs to be married or be in a relationship so the man can look after her. Which if you look at the history of relationships, you know, we used to get married, et cetera, for to create more wealth, you know, join lands together. Like it wasn't for love, it was for to create something together financially. So. And it's evolved so much. Religion has also, you know, changed a lot as well over the years. So I do think we're in a situation where we can choose whatever the hell we want. But you've got to be honest with yourself of what that is.

[Tom Schwartz]

I like that. Choose whatever you want for yourself to find that in your relationship. A big indicator for me, I've witnessed throughout my life whether or not a couple is going to be happy and successful is just showing gratitude consistently for your partner. Showing love and gratitude. I know it sounds so stock, but just reminding them, sweet little reminders that you're grateful for them in your life.

[Simone Molasses]

Yeah, but it's true. I mean I always have this like we call it, like you only get waves of gratitude, like you're grateful, but then there's something that shows up. Maybe you're in the shower, you're going for a walk or you're at the gym or something. You just have this like wave, like this tsunami of gratitude. When I have that for someone and or for my lover, I tell them because like receiving that wave of gratitude is, it always creates more.

[Tom Schwartz]

I was surfing the wave of gratitude this morning. You just said it so eloquently. It's just like I felt like a tsunami of gratitude when I woke up next to my girlfriend today and I was grateful for it. And I told her, I don't know how Beautifully I expressed it, but I just was like. I think it was, like, glimmering in my eyes. I was feeling it. Yeah, I had that. And it's nice. It's nice.

[Simone Molasses]

You know what? Don't disavow that because you're saying you don't have the words for it. And I had a message the other day from, you know, from my lover. And I could tell the energy behind it was something entirely different to the words. And he kept pausing and leaving this message. And I went. I said to him, hey, I heard everything, even beyond the words. And I was like, thank you. So I bet your girlfriend, she notices the glimmer in the eye. She notices the way you are. Like, it doesn't always have to be about words. Like, really,

[Tom Schwartz]

I love words. I love reading. I have a pretty good vocabulary. But in the moment, the heat of the moment, I do have a hard time finding them. I'm going to be honest with you. Can I ask you, being in this world, do you have. Do you have any, like, favorite books or movies or rom coms that you watch? Like, Guilty Pleasures? Maybe. Maybe they don't portray the healthiest relationships, but, like, you know, once you like to go watch the Notebook, how to Lose a guy in 10 days, like, little guilty Pleasures, you like to watch.

[Simone Molasses]

I do. Like, I would. I'm definitely up for a rom com. My. You know, when you. Your algorithm. My algorithm is so weird sometimes. It gets to be absolute, like, thrillers and detectives and stuff like that. But, yeah, I do like a rom com. I mean, even those ones that you mentioned. Now I will do a Guilty Pleasure that I just finished, and I was like, I can't believe I just watched this whole show. And I did it in two days. Was off campus.

[Tom Schwartz]

Oh, I don't know. Is this reality tv fiction or nonfiction?

[Simone Molasses]

No, it's not reality tv. It's a show on now. It's. I think it's on prime or something like that. But it's like, you know, college. Like, what happens off campus? You know, there's this whole hockey team and stuff. It's a big thing right now, Tom. You're going to see it. And go, really? And I was like. Started watching. And I went, am I really going to watch this? And I was like, damn, there's good eye candy on here. Which you start to go, how old are these guys that I'm the eye candy with on here? But, yeah, I know. I love all those. That stuff. I think it's. If it's well done and it's I mean, you know, like, what's that one with Julia Roberts and Hugh Grant, like, Notting Hill Gate? I think it was. Yeah. Yeah. You think when they're well done and at that moment when, I mean, you know, everyone knows it. When she said, I'm just a girl standing in front of a guy, you know, saying how she feels, like all of that vulnerability, what if we also didn't have to find that in a film and we were willing to be it tomorrow?

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah.

[Simone Molasses]

You know, you mentioned about all these relationships that you know of where they're like, well, we're five years in, we're 10 years in. You wouldn't quit now. What if the choice is in? Okay, if I'm going to stay, let's make this good. And if we're going to break this up also, like a conversation I've had twice in my life was, hey, have we. Have we done what we were meant to do together? Like, is it time to leave? You know? And I've had that twice. One, we were like, yeah, I think it is. And the second one, my God, Tom, the gratitude. After we sat down on this couch outside, we were in Sardinia, in Italy, and we just had this conversation, it was like, well, we could, we could leave, right? And then we started talking about all the things of what was up in our world. But what, what was loud was the gratitude. And that just made everything just bigger and greater. But people aren't, most people are not willing to have those conversations. And I think that's why we like rom coms is because those conversations are hard. And the willingness to hear a no, you know, the willingness for someone to say, hey, this is not working, you're going to be okay with that?

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah. And. Yeah. Is it safe to say love without effort is pretty much an illusion? At least long term?

[Simone Molasses]

Yeah.

[Tom Schwartz]

Right.

[Simone Molasses]

I would say non existent. Yeah, absolutely.

[Tom Schwartz]

But like, love it. Love at first sight. I'm still a firm believer in love at first sight. Twin flame, soul mates. Like, do you. Do you still believe in love at first sight?

[Simone Molasses]

You've experienced, you know, this friend of mine said to me one day and I thought it was great, he said, if you go, you know, and you're in a party or something like that, and you see someone at the other side of the room and you think, I must have them run. He said, you've usually been married to them in another lifetime or something. And there was a guy when I was in Brisbane years ago, and he was working in the same building and we met and we were Just like, wow. You know? And he actually said to me, simone, this is going to sound really weird, but I feel like I've been married to you in another lifetime or something. And I was like, aha. So I was like, wow, how many people do we know in this lifetime that we feel so connected to? Because we were connected to them in another lifetime? So I think you need. Yes. And I think you need to ask a question. Do you need to be with them in this lifetime just because you're with them in another one?

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah. I've experienced this, and it's both scary and beautiful. I was told I'm on my fourth life now. We don't have to go into that because I was asked not to. But, yes, I think I'm on my fourth life, but I still feel youthful, excited, optimistic, hopeful, and I still love, love Simone. And, yeah, I just. Thank you for just chatting with me. I honestly just wanted to riff with you. Where else can we find you? Obviously. So you have a PODC podcast, Choice, Change Action, Right?

[Simone Molasses]

Correct. Yeah. Choice, Change in Action. And my name. There's no other Simone Millise's that I found, so if you Google that, that's my Instagram, Facebook, website, all of it and more. So, yeah.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah. You're everywhere. And I'm just happy to see you happy. I'm excited for your trip to Europe and thank you for your time, your insight, your gratitude, and just for sharing your good energy with us. I appreciate the love.

[Simone Molasses]

Thank you, Tom. I appreciate it, too. Thanks for having me on here. It's been a pleasure.

[Tom Schwartz]

Oh, my God. Absolute pleasure. And, yeah, bon voyage. Have fun in Europe, Simone.

[Simone Molasses]

Oh, I will. I'm so looking forward to summer in Europe. Yes.

[Tom Schwartz]

That sounds fabulous. We could all use a little more summers in Europe. Thank you, Simone. I appreciate you. Thank you, guys.

[Simone Molasses]

Detoxification complete.

[Tom Schwartz]

Hello, and welcome to Pluto Phone. If you know the name of the movie you'd like to see, just stream it for free on Pluto tv, where all your blockbuster favorites are landing all summer long. Catch. Anchorman. The Legend of Ron Burgundy. Fantastic. Men in Black. Wonder through three. That's what I'm talking about. Mean Girls.

[Simone Molasses]

Shut up.

[Tom Schwartz]

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[Simone Molasses]

That is so effective on Pluto TV.

[Tom Schwartz]

Stream now. Pay Never.

[Simone Molasses]

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