Ghost Stories, Good Eats, and Cringe Tattoos In Canada!

Summary

Detox Retox with Tom Schwartz: Episode Summary

Episode Title: Ghost Stories, Good Eats, and Cringe Tattoos In Canada!
Release Date: July 8, 2025

In this vibrant episode of Detox Retox with Tom Schwartz, host Tom Schwartz embarks on an adventurous journey to Victoria, British Columbia, blending his love for self-improvement and wellness with indulgent experiences that define the "Retox" side of the show. This episode serves as a heartfelt ode to Canada, juxtaposed with Tom’s deep-seated affection for his homeland, the USA. Through engaging storytelling, interactive segments, and intriguing guest interviews, Tom delivers a rich and immersive narrative that captures the essence of finding harmony amidst contrasting experiences.

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1. Celebrating the Fourth of July from Canada

The episode opens with Tom reflecting on the irony of celebrating the American Independence Day while being miles away in Canada. His monologue is a blend of patriotic musings and humorous confessions, setting the tone for the episode’s exploration of cultural contrasts.

• Tom Schwartz [01:09]:
  “I feel guilty not being in our country on this day that commemorates our Independence Day... But I am in Canada. Yes, I know. Canada on the fourth.”

Tom humorously navigates his love for quintessential American traditions—like hot dogs, Bud Light, and Bruce Springsteen—while embracing his current Canadian locale, showcasing his ability to balance personal and professional commitments with genuine affection for both nations.

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2. Exploring Victoria’s Charm and Culinary Delights

Tom delves into the picturesque city of Victoria, British Columbia, highlighting its old-world charm, vibrant gardens, and serene coastal vibes. He shares his delight in discovering local specialties, from butter chicken pizza to unique gin offerings.

• Tom Schwartz [05:15]:
  “This gin is delicious. Complex, yet impeccably balanced. You may have just rekindled my love for gin, a love I never knew I had.”

His enthusiasm for local cuisine and beverages underscores the episode’s theme of indulgence, perfectly aligning with the "Retox" aspect by celebrating life’s pleasures.

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3. An Impromptu Tattoo Adventure in Chinatown

Embracing spontaneity, Tom ventures into Victoria’s historic Chinatown, where he decides to get a tattoo at the Red Lantern Tattoo Shop—a decision he records live, adding an element of real-time excitement and personal challenge.

• Tom Schwartz [13:29]:
  “Yeah, I'm here doing the damn thing. You're coming with me, if that's cool.”

This segment not only showcases Tom’s playful side but also his willingness to step out of his comfort zone, reinforcing the podcast’s commitment to genuine and relatable content.

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4. Delving into Victoria’s Haunted History with Ghostly Walks

A significant portion of the episode focuses on Victoria’s rich tapestry of ghost stories and supernatural lore. Tom interviews Chris Adams, a leader of the Ghostly Walks tours, who shares captivating tales and personal encounters with the paranormal.

• Chris Adams [26:42]:
  “My house growing up was haunted and my sister and I would pretty routinely know. We didn't necessarily see him, but we knew there was a ghost in the basement.”

Their conversation explores the historical and cultural factors that contribute to Victoria’s reputation as one of Canada’s most haunted cities. Chris recounts personal ghostly experiences and discusses the delicate balance between skepticism and belief.

• Chris Adams [35:56]:
  “Our walking tours are called Ghostly Walks, and we run here in Victoria year-round.”

Through these exchanges, listeners gain insight into the city’s haunted landmarks, the legacies of past inhabitants, and the enduring human fascination with the supernatural.

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5. Cultural Heritage and the Totem Pole of Beacon Hill Park

Tom highlights the significance of the totem pole in Beacon Hill Park, emphasizing its cultural and historical importance. He marvels at its craftsmanship and the stories it represents, linking it to the broader theme of heritage preservation.

• Tom Schwartz [28:12]:
  “It's a beautiful showcase of craftsmanship and culture. It literally took my breath away.”

This segment underscores the podcast’s commitment to exploring and appreciating diverse cultural narratives, adding depth to the listener’s understanding of Victoria’s rich heritage.

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6. Concluding Indulgence: The Nuclear Retox

Staying true to the "Retox" theme, Tom wraps up the episode with a humorous and indulgent culinary experience at Floyd's Diner. Despite his earlier promise of a detox, he gives in to temptation, symbolizing the balance between self-improvement and enjoying life's pleasures.

• Tom Schwartz [44:17]:
  “What just got presented to me is something truly heinous. Something diabolical. I wish you guys could smell this. This is a nuclear retox.”

Tom’s candid admission and playful commentary provide a relatable and entertaining conclusion, encapsulating the essence of the podcast's dual focus on wellness and indulgence.

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Key Takeaways and Insights

• Cultural Duality:
  Tom’s experience embodies the delicate balance between maintaining cultural identity and embracing new environments, offering listeners a nuanced perspective on living and working abroad.

• Embracing the Supernatural:
  The in-depth discussion with Chris Adams highlights the universal human curiosity about the unknown, reinforcing the podcast’s theme of exploring both the mindful and the mischievous aspects of life.

• Personal Growth through Adventure:
  Tom’s willingness to try new things—from getting a tattoo to embarking on ghost tours—underscores the importance of stepping out of one’s comfort zone for personal development and enriching experiences.

• Humor and Relatability:
  Throughout the episode, Tom’s humorous approach to his adventures and challenges makes the content engaging and relatable, fostering a connection with the audience.

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Notable Quotes:

• Tom Schwartz [29:02]:
  “Life, Liberty, the pursuit of happiness, even in its success and its failures.”

• Chris Adams [28:12]:
  “Our walking tours are called Ghostly Walks, and we run here in Victoria year-round.”

• Tom Schwartz [32:22]:
  “I love the idea of keeping an open mind.”

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Conclusion

In "Ghost Stories, Good Eats, and Cringe Tattoos In Canada!", Tom Schwartz masterfully intertwines his pursuit of wellness with moments of indulgence and cultural exploration. By navigating the haunted streets of Victoria, savoring local delicacies, and embracing spontaneous adventures, Tom delivers an episode that is as enlightening as it is entertaining. This journey not only celebrates the beauty and mystery of Canada but also reinforces the podcast’s mission of finding harmony amidst life's contrasts.

Transcript

[Narrator]

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[Tom Schwartz]

Foreign.

[Narrator]

It's now time for your weekly Retox with Tom Schwartz.

[Tom Schwartz]

Hey, welcome to another episode of Detox Retox with me, Tom Schwartz. Listen, everyone, how are you? Harmony, check. I don't want to brag, I definitely don't want to boast, but I'm kind of harmonized right now. I'm feeling very alive. I'm in a magical place. I'm not quite sure how to even say this. Guilt pangs. I have a confession to make. It's the 4th of July. As I record this and listen, you know me. Love me some Murica. Even with our shortcomings and challenges and there are a lot of them. I love a hot dog, a Bud, heavy light, some fireworks, some buffalo wings. Bye bye, Miss American Pie. Drove my Chevy to the levee but the levee was dry. I was born in the USA just like the boss himself. I tip 20% wherever I go. And I'll never know what it's like to have universal healthcare. There's barely any feet in our football, baseball, the blues. Costco runs. We have the best reality TV in the world, right? From Hollywood to nyc. So many beautiful places in America, you ain't first, you're last. Come on, you know you love our country. Even if at times it feels like things are falling apart. I feel guilty not being in our country on this day that commemorates our Independence Day. You know the speech. Bill Pullman, Will Smith, 1996. Yeah. Life, Liberty, the pursuit of happiness, even in its success and its failures. But I'm. I'm scared. I don't want to get denied re entry upon my return to the good old usa. All right, I'm just gonna say it. I am in Canada. Yes, I know. Canada on the fourth. That Canada, hockey, maple syrup, Tim Hortons poutine, which I'm sorry for hating on. I like poutine. Now? Yeah. Canada. Alanis Morissette Bieber fever. Canada on the 4th of July. I know. Can we talk about it a little bit? I can explain. It's for work, but for me, it's more than that. I can almost see Uncle Sam waving, wagging his pointer finger at me in a disapproving manner. Lady Liberty can smell the maple syrup on my breath. But I'm actually happy to be here. That's what you're not clocking. I'm standing on business. I love Canada. Yes, I said it. I love Canada. This episode is really a love letter to Canada. Unfortunately, it's on the 4th of July, but I love Canada. The outpouring of love I get every time I come to this beautiful country. These are my confessions. Illy Canada. Listen, of course I still love America. Relax. But Canada, you guys, you've been there. But with me for some of my lowest moments at the bar, always supporting at Sir TomTom Schwartz and Sandy's, rest in peace. But at some of my bleakest moments at Schwartz and Sandy's in particular, on nights where it was just like crickets, ghost town, morale sinking, like, is anyone gonna come in tonight in like, a group of six rowdy Canadians would come in, fire up the Schottsky and just sort of like reinstill hope in me. And of course, you know, you guys shout out to Australia, of course, America. But lot of love from Canada, man. But yeah, it's the fourth. Don't worry, I'm gonna eat the hot dog. I'm still gonna listen to some Bruce Springsteen if you want. I guess I could call Canada the 51st state today. Will that make you happy? America? Um, no. But I'm here and I'm happy. I'm feeling alive. Grateful. But why am I here? Where am I exactly? You guys, a little riddle, perhaps? Riddle me this. I'm gonna. Gorgeous city with old world charm. I just ate butter chicken pizza. There's apparently palm trees, but it's north of Minnesota. Boasts the tallest totem pole in the world, which I hope to visit on this trip. It's one of my top five early 2000 crushes. Birthplace, hint. She's like a bird. She'll only fly away. Yeah, Nelly Furtada was born here. The weather, much like Los Angeles, is gorge. You gotta pay a premium like that. Just like in la. It's. It's rich in history. Supernatural lore. Have you guessed it? Yes, I am Victoria, British Columbia. I'm here doing the damn thang. You're coming with me, if that's cool. Yeah, we're gonna go on a little audio adventure. I don't know exactly what we're gonna do in this episode, but I do know right now it's 68 degrees. The sun is dancing off the water like diamonds on a damn ring. I'm thinking, like, it feels. Everybody who grew up in the Midwest, I'm from Minnesota. It feels like that. That first day of spring where it's actually warm enough to rock a T shirt. Officially warm enough to rock a T shirt. You know, we're already rocking the shorts when it's like, 35 degrees. But, yeah, I'm feeling like anything is possible. The vibes are way up. I feel blessed right now. I'm sipping some local gin recommended me by the bartender here. It's called Sheringham Seaside. While seaside at the Ocean Point Hotel. Hell, yeah. Can I get a hell, yeah? Apparently, Sharing Hand Jim was inspired by the Vancouver island coast. It tastes like the air smells. Yeah. If that makes sense to you. How did you guys do this? Sheringham. Wild roses, evergreen forests, and, like, ocean air. This gin is delicious. Complex, yet impeccably balanced. Wow. You may have just rekindled my love for gin, A love I never knew I had. But I think more emphasis on detox today. Digital detox. Sightseeing. New people, new faces, new places. I'm gonna touch so much grass. Of course. Yeah. I'm gonna honor the USA by drinking a Coors Light. I'll find one. I'm gonna sing some Free Bird. Leonard Skynyrd. Restore a little patriotic karma here on the fourth. But thank you for joining me on this little adventure. I'll be honest, I don't know exactly what we're gonna do, but you can't wait for inspiration. You gotta go after it with a club, Right? Jack London, I see you. Oh, Canada, I'm here and I'm inspired. The air is crisp, fresh, and I feel alive, I suppose. Yeah. This is my little love letter, my little audio diary. Canada, I love you. First impressions of the city. It has a very. It has its own distinct feel. It's very charming. The architecture, full of old world charm, is very pleasant. I feel like I could be somewhere in Europe. My driver said you can get anywhere in 15 minutes. You can't get anywhere in LA in 15 minutes. But the air here is premium. There's no smog. I want to bottle it, and I want to sell it to people in la. I know it's kind of dystopian, but just walking around, I feel compelled here just to go on A nice walk. There's gardens everywhere. Native plant gardens, which is awesome. This place. Something's happening to me. It's got a hold of me. I. I just got here, but I'm already sad that I have to leave. But anyways, let's. I'm gonna stop yapping. I love you, Canada. Thank you again for being there for me, for us. So much love for the Vander Brunch. Vanderbunch. We're doing a Vander Brunch I'm hosting at the Canadian Brewhouse Saturday, Sunday. Although for legal reasons, I don't think I can call it that. But Canada, how can I show you that I love you? How can I prove my love something that shows commitment? Hmm. Okay, let's keep going. I'm gonna check out for a second, and then we'll pick right back up. But we're in Victoria, and we're doing the Damn, guys. I'm in Chinatown. Historic Chinatown, the second oldest Chinatown in North America. And I'm gonna wander. Not all who wander are lost. I'm gonna go to the first place that jumps out at me. Something new, something different, something exciting. Let's see what happens. Okay, I'm doing this live with you guys. I'm solo. So just me and you. Okay? Okay. Okay. We have a revelation. An epiphany. Guys, across the street, about 50ft away, is a tattoo shop. It's called the Red Lantern Tattoo Shop, Five five, one. I don't know what street this is, but I'm gonna get a tattoo. Yes. This is happening in real time. I'm gonna walk across the street right now, and I'm gonna get a tattoo. Okay. And you guys are coming with me. Guys, I'm at the Red Lantern Tattoo Shop in Chinatown, Victoria. I'm with Max. This is my ode to Canada. For all the love you guys have given me, I appreciate you. And I know it's downright unpatriotic to do on the 4th of July, but we're doing the damn thing. Max, you want to say hi?

[Max]

Yeah, my name is Max.

[Tom Schwartz]

So I say hi. I'm from Ukraine. Thank you very much for attention. We're going forward. Max is the man. He said my tattoo is not that cool, but he's gonna do it anyways, and I feel good about it. I love you guys. I love Canada. All right. I feel like I borderline might not get. I might not get allowed back through customs into the US when they find out I got a Canadian Maple leaf on the 4th of July, but here we are. We're doing it. All right, I'm gonna shut up, you guys. Bye. Just want you guys to hear that. Never heard a tattoo gun that doesn't make that Z noise, guys. Okay, I'm in heaven. I have chicken bao, a cucumber salad, the frostiest, iciest, cold High Life Miller High Life ever. The champagne of beers, and brace yourself, a Vanilla Thai Tea Shop Shaft. So that's vanilla vodka, Thai tea, a little bit of oat milk. She said, do you want whole milk? I said, no way, Kimo Sabe. I'm from la. Give me the oat Detox Retox. This place is called the Dumpling Drop. And I was going to interview Raven, but she said she has too much vocal fry and she was shy, so I'm going solo. By the way, I just walked through maybe one of the coolest places I've ever been in my life. The most narrow valley in North America. Fan Tan Alley at its thinnest point. It's only a meter. For you Americans, that's three feet. At its most narrow part, though, it's in Chinatown. Just got my tattoo. Definitely getting deported when I try to get back in America. But, yeah, again, this is the second oldest Chinatown in America, the oldest being in San Francisco, which I love, too. But, yeah, Fantan Alley, they named it after the Chinese gambling game. Apparently, the alley was originally known for opium factories, but brothels. Yeah. Yep. And it produced opium until it was made illegal in 1908. And then it was more famous for, yeah, gambling, brothels. So, yeah, it got its name Fantan, from the. The card game that they created back in the early 1900s. Also. Also, and this might be a reoccurring theme in this episode. It's rumored to be haunted. Yeah. Yep. Fan Tan Alley in Victoria's Chinatown is rumored to be haunted. I was talking to one of the bartenders earlier, and they more or less said it's associated with a few ghost stories. I was looking this one up. Most notably the tale of Ah Huang, who murdered Yao Kom in the alley in 1889. Apparently, he was down bad, fell madly in love, and she said, nope. Next. And he retaliated in the most morbid, horrible way that I won't recount right now. But apparently, yeah, his. His soul. His ghost haunts the alley, and some of the local vendors leave out little offerings to assuage his rage. Yeah, it's so cool. It's so charming. It kind of reminds me of Golden Guy in Japan. There's no bars or restaurants in the actual alley. It's mostly gift shops. Yeah, it's a little gentrified now, but it still has its charm, its mystique. It's feel. It's cool you guys ever get a chance. Fan Tan Alley, by the way, again. Dumpling drop. So good. Come say hi to Raven. Tell her Schwartz sent you. I'm gonna eat and I'm gonna shut up. Raven. Well, you don't want to hear. Can we hear the vocal fry? No. She said no. Anyways. Okay, guys, this is is fun. I'm gonna shut up, I'm gonna eat, and then we're gonna keep exploring. All right? I'll be back, you guys. Oh, my God. I'm on the shore right now. I just walked through Beacon Park. My God, it is utterly gorgeous. On the way here, I wanted to stop at every bar, every restaurant, every gift shop, which is the telltale sign of a great city. I mean, it's just bustling, teeming with life and good vibes. But it's also somehow still quiet, somehow like old school and new, steeped in history, but what's punctuated with a few contemporary twists here and there, you know, modern conveniences, somehow quaint, somehow cosmopolitan. One thing I love about coastal cities is that that breeze you get off the water. Wait, hold on a sec. You guys gotta feel this with me for a sec. Perfect timing, Mother Nature. But yeah, man, you just. You'll see people sitting on a bench, just soaking in the moment, being very present, reflecting on their lives, maybe contemplating the future. Hopefully not, regardless, regretting the past, but just lounging, soaking in the moment. The beauty. My God. Listen, you definitely don't see that in North Hollywood or Hollywood or most of la. I love la. I don't want to hate on it. Yes, in Venice, Santa Monica, Malibu. But here, it just feels so. Man, the air is. I'm just like taking these deep gulps. I want to store some and take it back home. Feels very sen. It's very Zen. I can't imagine. I can't possibly imagine someone honking at another person here unless it was like a life or death situation, you know, maybe to save a life, but it just. It feels. Yeah, the kindness is palpable. And of course, you guys, I get it. I've been here like six hours. Every city has its flaws, its underbelly. We're not going to get into that, though. Beacon park, it just feels like. It feels like the epitome of a Noah spot, if you know what I mean. I walked by the most majestic peacock I've ever seen in my life. Ever. Like, I just was blown away. I came here just to soak it in, but I also. I was supposed to have a tour guide. It fell through. So I guess you guys. I never use chat GPT, but I had to because I went to see the tallest story pole, totem pole in Beacon Hill Park. My God. It's insane. It's 127ft tall, carved from a single 133 foot tree from Souk. Created in 1956 by artists Chief Mungo Martin and his son David Martin and Henry Hunt. It was carved from world's tallest. Yeah. Oh. Oh, sorry. It was carved from a single 100. Yeah. Single 133 foot tree. I like to think that the tree was already dead, but, yeah, cultural significance. It portrays the ancestral figures of the Gi Eksum clan, especially their first man ancestor. And legendary animals like the cannibal bird, killer whale, sea lion, eagle, sea otter. More symbolizing clan identity and heritage. It's beautiful. Listen, you guys, you might have to Google this one. I'm going to take some pictures. But, yeah, apparently totem poles usually only last about, like, 50 years, but there was a campaign for conservation, and they restored it, repainted it, reinstalled in 2001. And yeah, man, it is just a beautiful showcase of craftsmanship and culture. It's beautiful. It literally took my breath away. I love the idea of when a totem pole is. When it. When it falls, it's buried back into earth to tell the stories to the earth. I think I botched that, but someone was telling me that back there. It was beautiful. Yeah, guys. So gorgeous. Do you guys want to go. Sorry, this is an abrupt pivot. Do you guys want to go on a ghost tour? I'm thinking. I'm thinking we should go on a ghost tour. Yeah. Okay. Let's go on a ghost tour. Next. Guys, we need to talk about why Victoria is referred to as one of the most haunted places in Canada. The most haunted place in B.C. its reputation comes from. Yeah, a rich, layered history. One of the oldest cities in Western Canada. Once a beacon, a hub for gold rush seekers, sailors, colonists, who all brought tales of. You know what? Actually, I'm gonna let somebody tell you who's lived it. Who's living it. Okay, I'm tired of yapping. But many of its historic buildings, like the Fairmont Express, Bastion Square, they have stories of death, suicides, all kinds of mysterious happenings attached to them. But yet the city was also built over burial grounds and First Nation sacred sites which hold deep spiritual, cultural, and historical Significance for indigenous peoples. Remember the tallest totem pole we talked about earlier? Yeah. All this stuff further fuels legends, apparently. Lots of, lots of unsettled spirits. Also, this was, this was ground zero for the satanic panic. Have you heard of it? Google it. Back in the 80s. Pre Internet Google ChatGPT. By the way, I highly recommend this documentary called Satan wants you. And shout out to the director, Steve J. Adams. I was going to interview him, but it didn't work out. But the, the satanic panic was like this moral hysteria. All hell broke loose back around my b day, early 80s into the 90s. But essentially it was just like false claims about widespread satanic ritual abuse. There was this book called Michelle Remembers, and it's, yeah, people thought it was real and it fueled all kinds of fear, media hype, hundreds of innocent people arrested, flawed investigations. Yeah, man, let's just do a whole episode about that. Yeah, but there's ghostly lore. It's a whole thing. It's an industry here. I'm fascinated by it. By the way, thanks for hanging with me. Like, it's just been mostly me this whole time, so I appreciate it. And yeah, let's go meet up with Chris. It's a family business, a generational business. Let's go soak up some lore and marinate in a little old world charm. All right, Chris, I'm here in Victoria. Can you introduce yourself?

[Chris Adams]

Yes, my name is Chris Adams. My family leads the ghostly walks tours here. And we've been taking people through the haunted streets and alleys of Victoria for 25 years now.

[Tom Schwartz]

My God, I, I, I've heard so much since I've been here, talking to servers, bartenders, people on the street. I'm just wondering what makes Victoria such. What, what, what makes it more haunted? The rest of Canada?

[Chris Adams]

Yes. And it is, it's, well, it's definitely the most haunted city in B.C. and there are a few other haunted places in Canada, but there's a lot of ghostly activity here. And it's got to do with the layered history of the place. Because although Victoria is known for its 19th century buildings, before anyone came to build these brick structures that were surrounded by like the old courthouse just in behind us. There have been people living here for thousands of years. And their stories, the stories of the Lekwungen people, are woven throughout everything country because thousands of years of living is thousands of years of dying too. But eventually it would become a gold rush town, which for some people is hard to believe because Victoria today seems very nice with trees and flowers and tea. But in the gold rush years, you have to think dirt streets, wooden buildings, murders, hangings. You're smiling, you like that stuff. All the kinds of things that give rise to ghost stories, but also too, the shape of the harbor, the, the particular rock the city has built on, all the strange characters that have come through. I mean that in the years we've been leading these tours, we've collected more than 500 ghost stories.

[Tom Schwartz]

What was the most convincing experience you've ever had of the supernatural on a personal level?

[Chris Adams]

Yeah. Well, growing up in Victoria, I think people take it for granted that eventually ghostly encounters will happen. And when people come on the tours and say they don't believe in ghosts, I just say they haven't had a chance to hang out with people, me and Victoria long enough because eventually everyone's going to have that shiver that runs down the spine or that sense of being watched or maybe even something reaches out and grabs at them in the dark. But my house growing up was haunted and my sister and I would pretty routinely know. We didn't necessarily see him, but we knew there was a ghost in the basement. And I think maybe kids imaginations are strong, but their perceptions are also very, very strong. And so kids are really, really able to encounter ghosts. And as young kids we did certainly.

[Tom Schwartz]

Did you interact, was it a one way street or did you, was it.

[Chris Adams]

A benign in our basement? Yeah, I'm quite grateful it was benign. But not all the ghosts are, you know, just like living humans. Most of the ghosts out there are pretty nice, but then there are the ones like the occasional person you might meet on the streets of the living human variety that is back for revenge or has some reason that they're nasty. And there's plenty of those in Victoria too.

[Tom Schwartz]

Your father told me that last night. Unfinished business?

[Chris Adams]

Yes.

[Tom Schwartz]

Some linger forever, some travel. And I'm so fascinated by this. Do you think your childhood sort of led to this where you are now?

[Chris Adams]

Well, I think so. And I couldn't, you know, I couldn't resist but enter into the family business. I was living away, I grew up in Victoria, but I lived in the UK for a long time, was living and visiting haunted places over there. And so when I came back to Victoria, it seemed like a natural fit, especially because I continue to have ghostly experiences. You know, when I was a little bit older, I encountered the ghost of a woman just across the water from where we're looking as the sun begins to set. And her name was Agnes Bings. And she was actually the victim of Victoria's most gruesome unsolved murder of all, all time. But as a kid, I had no idea who she was. I just knew there was a. A glowing white figure moving towards my friends and I as we were having a kind of little version of a seance on a point of land.

[Tom Schwartz]

Can I ask you, your first experience, were you scared or did you feel some sort of innate calmness?

[Chris Adams]

Well, I think the. The ghost in our house was a pretty benign one, and you could feel that. However, when I encountered Agnes Bings over there, even though my friends and I had gone to that place to encounter ghosts, as soon as we saw this white figure coming towards us, the first thing we did was screamed and ran. So even though we were there to encounter ghosts, we chickened out as soon as one actually came along.

[Tom Schwartz]

My God, that's.

[Chris Adams]

So.

[Tom Schwartz]

Have you. So I imagine some people come on the tours as skeptics or ironically or as like a goof. Have you ever had any experiences where someone who comes on as, you know, they're incredulous, and then all of a sudden at the end, they've been converted?

[Chris Adams]

Yeah. Yeah. And it's fair. I mean, I think it's a very valid thing to be skeptical until proven otherwise. Right. Until something comes along that convinces you that this aspect that you have a hard time believing in is true. And that's fine. People come on the tours who are skeptical all the time. And ultimately the history, the lovely walk in an evening is enjoyable enough. Sometimes people get dragged along by their spouses, too, and those are the really tricky ones because they really don't want to be there. Right. But certainly we've had, by the end of the tour, some people who say they're skeptical, like looking behind them or you can see the hair on the back of their neck standing up. And you know that maybe it's just they haven't been paying attention. Because in our lives, you know this, we walk around and we're. You know, a ghost could walk past and tap you on the shoulder and you'd say, hey, just let me send this text. Just go over there. Right? We don't pay attention. So one of the things we try to do is get people to slow down just enough so they're paying attention to all of those little magical things that happen around us. Because if you are moving a little bit more slowly, you're rushing a little bit less, and sometimes all of those synchronicities just begin to take shape around you, and then you realize, ah, there is something. There's something more than perhaps I was perceiving before.

[Tom Schwartz]

I love the idea of keeping an open mind. And I, I don't know, something, I've. I've only been on two ghost tours in my life, but I felt some sort of six sixth sense activated. I don't know, I don't know how to explain or articulate it, but I just, I like to keep an open mind and. Yeah, I don't know.

[Chris Adams]

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

[Tom Schwartz]

It's a sixth sense.

[Chris Adams]

Yeah. And. And we talk about that sixth sense as, as if it's some unusual thing. Right. That we're skeptical about. But truly, how would humans have survived for as long as we have unless we had this innate capacity to understand at a deep level our environment and whether we were there a long, long time ago in all of our ancestry, scooping water for ourselves, not being able to hear because the river's rushing past, not being able to see because we're looking forward and we know there's something behind us and we turn and we fend off a saber toothed cat or something. Right. And in our lives today, even though there may be no saber toothed cat around, those senses still sometimes swirl into being when needed. And you can call it a sixth sense, but really I think it's probably one of the senses that allowed us to survive as long as we did as creatures that aren't all that strong. You know, we don't have the sharpest teeth or the longest claws, but we do have this ability to sense our landscape and interact with it.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah, that's beautifully stated, by the way. Beautifully stated. I like to think that just like, I don't know, infrawave or a radio wave, some people are, have antennas that other people don't. Would you agree with that?

[Chris Adams]

Yeah, there are some people who are definitely more sensitive. And you know, on our tours we, we often meet people who are mediums or clairvoyants. And if someone announces themselves as a medium, I'm, you know, skeptical until I see them in action. And we've worked with a lot of people who can go into a space that they've never been to before and immediately start channeling the energy of what's happened there before. And it's, it's pretty amazing when you do see that. And again, I'm skeptical if someone just announces themselves as a medium. But when you see people in action and they don't know the history of the place they're talking about, and all of a sudden they begin to speak about experiences that people have had there, then it's. It's very real.

[Tom Schwartz]

It is. And I've experienced that. Do I've. Well, I've only been. I told you, I've only been on two tours, but some of my friends say they'll never go on a tour because they're afraid that the spirit will cling to them like a poltergeist. Is that a liability? It is.

[Chris Adams]

It certainly is. And you've got to be careful. You know, there are people in the ghost and paranormal world that perhaps are pushing the boundaries of what's appropriate. I would never want to denigrate anyone's work, but when you're working in this stuff, you actually have to be very careful. And there are reasons why every culture in the world has rituals or prayers or special things they do to stay on the good side of what some people call spirits or ancestors or souls or ghosts. You know, there are many words for what we're talking about. And so on our tours, we try to walk that line between being entertaining but also being safe, respectful and respectful because, I mean, I see it just as an interaction with any other human, whether they're living or dead. You want to be respectful? I'm going to be respectful with you, and they'll be respectful with me again. There are some ghosts for particular vengeful reasons that are hard to stay respectful with. But by and large, we try to keep on that side of things, the respectful side.

[Tom Schwartz]

Well, this has been so nice. Can I ask you before we go. I know you, I know you're busy. Can I ask you what your favorite thing about Victoria is?

[Chris Adams]

Yeah, my favorite thing about Victoria, I think that it's got this complicated history that people are really surprised. Surprised by. You know, we are able to dig into the layers, Talk about it being a gold rush town, a fur trading post. The old fur trading post used to be just feet away from where we're standing with big wooden walls. And how during the gold rush years especially, this was a place where people were coming to from all over the world into a place where there had already been people living. But people were coming from all over the world at a very particular point in the nation, 19th century, when life was changing for everyone around the globe very rapidly. So particular people, a particular time and a particular place, and that combination didn't happen anywhere else and nor could it ever happen again. It is what makes. What makes Victoria unique.

[Tom Schwartz]

And I feel that you articulated it. I'm just experiencing it for the first time, but I kind of feel that intuitively. But thank you.

[Chris Adams]

Yeah, my pleasure. My pleasure.

[Tom Schwartz]

So nice Sitting down with you, Chris.

[Chris Adams]

My pleasure.

[Tom Schwartz]

You guys, can I. Can you say your name one more time?

[Chris Adams]

Yeah, my name is. My name is Chris Adams. And our walking tours are called Ghostly Walks, and we run here in Victoria year round.

[Tom Schwartz]

You guys, trust me, you want to do this. Thank you, Chris.

[Chris Adams]

Thank you for the time.

[Tom Schwartz]

Thank you.

[Max]

And it is indeed the epicenter of hauntings in town, and that's saying a lot, because the whole city is haunted. But this building, the old Supreme Court building, has many ghosts. Probably the most famous is Sir Matthew Bailey Begley. I mentioned his name earlier. He was the Chief justice back in the 1800s. He was the one who founded the Union Club, and he was still the Chief justice when he died in 1894. But his ghost has been haunting this building ever since. It ceased being a courthouse in 1960 and shortly afterwards became a museum. The museum moved out 10 years ago. The building is now empty. But during the days of the museum, they restored a courtroom up on the top floor. And after that, people began to hear something. It was a pounding on the judge's bench. They'd never heard that before until they put the judge's bench back. What's going on? But they realized that it was the sound that Begbie used to make. He had a violent temper, and if he was angry with the president or a jury, he often pounded his fist, just like that. Still does. People going into the courtroom would get pushed out of it, pushed in the back, hard, as if somebody didn't want them there. And coming down the stairs, staff often saw the ghost of Begbie coming towards him, but then he would disappear. Other staff did not see him, but they felt something, possibly make me or somebody else grabbing them, trying to throw them down the stairs. Items floated through the air. The elevator stopped, and people got pushed up against the walls by something they couldn't see. Yeah, museums are haunted places. All the objects that come in often have the ghosts of former owners attached to them. Museum creators are familiar with this stuff. But courthouses are haunted places, too, because judges have very difficult decisions to find make. Especially in the days of Begbie when they were hanging people. Did he make the right decision every time? No, of course not. He probably was aware of that. And judges are only human. And they will think about some of their difficult cases, reliving the evidence, perhaps wondering whether they sent an innocent man to the gallows or perhaps a guilty man set free. But they have a chance to come at it again when they die, because ghosts, of course, will come back to finish unfinished business. So that's one of the reasons why courthouses are often haunted places. But there's another special reason why this one is particularly haunted. For this, I'm going to take you just down this way.

[Tom Schwartz]

Are you guys digging this?

[Max]

Bastion Square has many parts. This is Chancery Lane and the area just over here is Boomerang Court, once the site of a saloon known as the Boomerang, run by an Australian couple back in gold rush days. But some mornings in the late 1850s and early 1860s, Ben and Adelaide Griffin of the Boomerang knew they were going to have a lot of customers because they were the mornings of the public hangings. And everybody in town came to watch. The jail stood right here, the jail for the colony of Vancouver island. And they built the Boomerang so they would have a front row seat looking over this way into the courtyard, just right here where the hangings took place at dawn. And everybody in town came to watch someone clamber up to the roof of the Boomerang for a better look. And they waited until the sun came up. They could see the hangman coming out. He didn't want people to know who he was and so he disguised himself with a black hood. He led the procession with the prisoner in chains, with the sheriff and the warden, the priest and Dr. Halkin up the stairs in the gallows until they reached the platform and then onto the trap door. They tied the prisoner's feet, they bound his hands. They took off the chains. The sheriff stepped forward and read the death warrant signed by the judge. They asked the prisoner if he had any final words. And then they pulled a hood of oiled silk over the prisoner face so the public wouldn't see it when he died. It could be a horrible sight. His eyes might bulge, blood might forehead of his boundary nose, but also maybe there was somebody in the crowd that had come to watch the poor victim die, maybe the man who had provided the evidence against him. And if the prisoner saw him, he would give him the evil eye. The hood would prevent that sort of thing. And once it was on, the hangman put the noose around the prisoner's neck. It all happened very quickly. The priest stepped forward, the men took off their hats, a sign of respect. And the hangman put his hand on the lever that controlled the trap door and he waited for the priest to begin the Lord's Prayer and the line, forgive us our trespasses. The lever was pulled, the drop fell, the prisoner's neck snapped. Here they knew exactly what to do. There was nobody who was going to wait 45 minutes to die like Joe Noana in Port Townshend. You see, the last words the prisoner would have heard when he was alive were, forgive us our trespasses. When the victim was dead and Dr. Halkin was here to make sure that the victim was dead, they cut the rope and brought the body down. And then the sheriff stepped to the front of the platform and called out to everybody who claims this body, who claims this body. But matter how many times or how loudly he called out, a few people might come and volunteer to take the body to the cemetery. But the ones that were unclaimed were buried right there behind the courtyard, right beside the gallows where the victim was hanged and the bodies were never ever taken away. They did eventually tear down the jail and build the foundations of the Supreme Court right on top of those graves, embedding the bodies forever under the floor. So I think you'll understand there are plenty of reasons why this building in particular is considered, considered one of the most haunted in the city. But I think we have time for one more story. And for this we're going to go inside. Some of you might be a bit chilly, and we'll find a place where it's warm and where you can sit down. It's a little spooky. It's inside the old Burns House Hotel right here. But to get there, we've got to go through the back entrance, down this way.

[Tom Schwartz]

Not believe what just got presented to me. I'm at Floyd's Diner in Victoria. Someone at TomTom told me I need to come here and try the Le Bon. The Le Bon Johnson. You guys are diabolical, by the way, because what just got presented to me is something truly heinous. Something diabolical. I wish you guys could smell this. This is a nuclear retox. I'm doing this for science, for the love of the game. I know I promised a retox. Is it going to be toxic? But this is blurring the lines. I'm staring down at six pieces of thick cut bacon. I mean thick two Cs, a lucky beer in a shot of effing Jack Daniels. Staring down with an air of malaise. Surely, you guys, this is scarier. This is scarier than any ghost tour I'm gonna go on. Wish me luck. May the Schwartz be with me. I'm doing this for you guys.

[Narrator]

Retoxification complete.