Love Is LITERALLY Blind with Madison Maidenberg

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Detox Retox with Tom Schwartz

Episode Title: Love Is LITERALLY Blind with Madison Maidenberg
Date: October 28, 2025
Host: Tom Schwartz
Guest: Madison Maidenberg (Love is Blind Season 9 cast member)

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Episode Overview

Tom Schwartz welcomes Madison Maidenberg from the latest "Love is Blind" season for a candid, heartfelt, and often humorous conversation. The episode dives into the realities of finding love on TV, the nuances of self-growth under public scrutiny, and Madison’s unique journey as the show’s first visually impaired cast member. Expect deep insights into vulnerability, body image, friendship, healing, and the lessons reality TV can teach us—all seasoned with Tom and Madison’s irreverent, warm, and relatable banter.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Life After "Love is Blind" — Madison’s Current State

• Timestamp: 08:43
  • Madison shares that she’s "doing really well" despite some online negativity:

    “Of course there’s a few trolls here and there, but in general, I’ve had so much love and support and really just taking the good with the bad and riding the wave right now.”
    — Madison (08:43)

  • Tom commends Madison for her resilience and humor.

2. Madison’s Career & Advocacy

• Timestamp: 09:07
  • Madison works as a UX/UI designer with a focus on marketing, and is President of the Foundation for Fighting Blindness.

3. On-Camera Vulnerability & Karaoke Bonding

• Their spirited 7-Eleven and karaoke hypotheticals lead to discussion about comfort foods, favorite karaoke songs (Fergalicious, ABBA), and must-have drinks (tequila shots):

  “You’re speaking my love language. How’d you know, Tom?”
  — Madison (10:02)

4. Representation: Love IS Literally Blind

• Timestamp: 13:07
  • Madison addresses her journey as a visually impaired contestant:

    “It’s kind of funny...I might be blind and Love is Blind, so let’s marry the two and see what we get.”
    — Madison (13:38)

  • She discusses why her participation is both fitting and overdue for the series.

5. Casting Process & True Motivations

• Timestamp: 14:23
  • Madison reveals the intense, months-long casting process and her introspective journey before joining:

    “You really are kind of getting in the mindset for a good amount of time of, like, what do I really want in a partner? What do I bring to the table?...A lot of mental preparation and kind of having to answer questions...I hadn’t thought about.”
    — Madison (14:23)

  • Tom applauds her authenticity and "pure soul" for participating for the right reasons.

6. Watching Herself on Screen

• Timestamp: 16:59
  • Madison describes watching herself back as “fully dissociating,” but says she’s grown to give herself grace.

    “I’ve really learned to...give myself grace. And, you know, I’ve had a year and a half to kind of heal and mentally prepare for this.”
    — Madison (16:59)

7. Friendships & Support System

• Timestamp: 18:49
  • Madison treasures friendships formed during the show, staying close to several cast members:

    “Some of my best friends have come from the show...some of the girls that you don’t get to see on the show, I’m also pretty good friends with.”
    — Madison (18:49)

8. Mexico Episode & Body Image Scrutiny

• Timestamp: 21:16
  • Tom and Madison discuss the difficult Mexico episode where her ex, Joe, made comments on Madison’s body.
  • Madison on public scrutiny of her body and relationship:

    “Add on top of that, somebody that you’re in a relationship with blowing the door wide open on the conversation about your body. It’s been difficult...humbling in some ways...really ground in myself and not let certain words carry the weight they used to.”
    — Madison (21:16)

  • She describes the pain and confusion of Joe’s comments about preferring “petite women.”

9. Reflecting on Heartbreak & Moving Forward

• Timestamp: 25:17
  • Madison explains she wasn’t truly blindsided by the breakup but felt let down after agreeing to “see the experiment through.”

    “I was still going through moments of like, oh, I don’t know, maybe I’m gonna say yes, maybe I’m not...So I think ultimately she followed her heart and I think that speaks well for her.”
    — Madison (33:26)

  • She discusses the desire for closure and why "when someone doesn't want to be with you, that's all you need to hear—even if it hurts."

    “I really dive in and stay in the deep end until I can’t anymore...I just didn’t [see the signs].”
    — Madison (26:47)

10. Lessons Learned & Intuition

• Timestamp: 34:32
  • Madison says the biggest lesson is trusting her intuition:

    “I’ve really learned that when the alarm bells go off, like, lean into that...I idealized him and our relationship far more than I should have, and that made me numb to what the reality was.”
    — Madison (34:32)

11. Post-Show Life & Reality TV Takeaways

• Favorite Reality Shows:

  • Traitors, Dancing with the Stars, Love is Blind (her own), waiting for new seasons.

• Advice for Future Contestants:

  “Get so grounded in yourself before you go on. Seriously, lean into who you know yourself to be and be immovable. Become a mountain and stand tall in that and you’ll be fine.”
  — Madison (37:06)

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Notable Quotes

• On being the most “qualified” for Love is Blind:

  “I might be blind and Love is Blind, so let’s marry the two and see what we get.”
  — Madison (13:38)

• On heartbreak and not getting clear answers:

  “It freaking hurts when someone doesn’t choose you...can you give me some reason so I can help rationalize this and take inventory so I can be better next time?”
  — Tom Schwartz (26:12)

• On moving forward without closure:

  “Ultimately, when someone doesn’t want to be with you, that’s all you need to hear, right?...it doesn’t mean it doesn’t hurt.”
  — Tom Schwartz (26:47)

• On trusting her intuition:

  “When the alarm bells go off, like, lean into that. Don’t silence them.”
  — Madison (34:32)

• On advice for future "Love is Blind" hopefuls:

  “Get so grounded in yourself before you go on. Become a mountain and stand tall.”
  — Madison (37:06)

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Memorable Moments & Fun Exchanges

• Tom and Madison bond over late-night snacks and ridiculous convenience store orders (10:17).
• Discussion of karaoke bravado and go-to songs (“Fergalicious,” “Dancing Queen”) (11:15).
• Tom admits nostalgia for frosted tips and 98 Degrees, while Madison references her sister’s 90s pop obsession (12:20).
• Madison’s dry retelling of a “paint color” joke with Joe exemplifies unscripted reality TV gold (29:30).
• Tom’s empathetic take on reality TV fatigue: “Watching yourself back...can be one of the most masochistic things. You can learn a lot, but it’s also torture.” (16:27)
• Both give grace to fellow cast members including Joe and Anton, emphasizing empathy and the distortions of reality TV editing (32:53, 34:07).
• Tom asks, “Would you say you were kind of blinded by love?” to which Madison responds, “I would say so, yeah.” (27:17)

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Timestamps of Important Segments

• 08:43 – Madison on coping with fame and trolls
• 13:38 – Madison reflects on her blindness and unique role on the show
• 14:23 – Love is Blind casting process and motivations
• 16:59 – The challenge of watching yourself on TV
• 18:49 – Real friendships and support from the cast
• 21:16 – Body image, Joe’s comments, and public scrutiny
• 25:17 – 26:47 – Heartbreak, closure, and learning from the breakup
• 34:32 – Lessons learned: intuition and self-worth
• 37:06 – Madison’s advice to future reality TV participants

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Tone and Language

The episode is conversational, candid, and lightly self-deprecating—mixing vulnerability with dry humor, empathy, and positive energy. Both Tom and Madison keep things real while reflecting on deep emotional experiences, but never linger too long in heaviness—opting instead for connection, wit, and forward-looking insights.

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If you’re looking for a thoughtful examination of love, loss, and growth filtered through the lens of reality TV—and some prime reality show gossip with no bitterness—this episode is a must-listen. Madison’s honesty and perspective offer hope, humor, and hard-won wisdom for anyone navigating tough transitions, public scrutiny, or their own search for harmony.

Transcript

[Tom Schwartz]

Foreign.

It's now time for your weekly retox with Tom Schwartz. What's up, everybody? How are you? Harmony. Check.

Hello.

How are you keeping it together? You falling apart? Maybe a bit of both, I hope. Emphasis on keeping it together so you can fall apart. Just searching for harmony, you guys. Today on the show, we have a very special guest. I'm hyped for this one. Madison Madenberg. You guys watching the new season of Love is Blind? It's so good. I just finished it and I loved it. She's an absolute vibe. I caught her while she was in Mexico. By the way, the Mexico episode was by far my favorite. Hilarious, tragic, everything in between. Yeah, man. You guys digging the new season? I thought it was so good. Her love story with Jo. Tough, tough.

Watch.

Not gonna lie. But listen, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with her mindset and attitude about this whole journey. And in honor of her, I think we should all go to the closest karaoke bar and take a shot of tequila. She's very cool. The reunion airs tomorrow. By the way, you guys dig this season. I mean, I loved it. I'm hyped for this one. I'm not usually a reunion guy, but I'm hyped. On another note, more somber note, I'm borderline depressed. No, I'm straight up depressed because October went by so freaking fast. Fast? No, the fastest October in history. Like, I'm not ready to let go. Happy Halloween. But, like, what happened, man? Aaron Samuels didn't even ask me what day it was on October 3rd.

[Madison Madenberg]

On October 3rd, he asked me what day it was. It's October 3rd.

[Tom Schwartz]

Spooky season. My favorite season, the fall. I want to slow it down before we chat with Madison. I want to share something with you guys. I want to share something truly disturbing, okay? Something that will haunt you while you sleep every day, every week, every month. And it does not stop unless you move out. You can run, but you can't hide. I guess you could say there's safety in numbers. But still, a lot of pain, terror. I'm not talking about a haunting or poltergeist. Nothing like that. This is far scarier. I'm talking about rent. Yeah, rent prices are fucking insane. Okay, Can I do it on a mini rant before we talk with Madison? Real quick, Just. You guys, I know you feel me on this. Rent places are out of control. Like, I'm paying almost as much for my current place in rent as I was on my mortgage on a large home with four bedrooms, five bathrooms, and a Pool like, it's, it's, it's gotten out of control. Okay, I just read a report. The average U.S. rent payment in 2024, 31% higher than five years earlier. Between 2019 and 2023, apartments rose about 30%. That's insane. Single family rentals over like 41%. Like, I don't know if you guys care, but historically the average annual rent increases around like 3 to 5%. But my God, since the pandemic, it's been insane. Even if you're buying interest rates. Interest rate prices have like doubled prices, Home prices up like 50%. Man, adulting is kind of hard.

And you can have a great job.

Making six figures in big cities like la, living paycheck to paycheck. And it's not about, you know, not living a reasonable lifestyle. It's just the cost of living is insane today. That's why I wanted to introduce you guys to something that can help alleviate some of that pain. Rent now, pay later. Yeah, rent now, pay later. So let me introduce you to this service, okay? It addresses one of the biggest pain points in America right now. Renters living paycheck to paycheck. What about access to flexible, fair financing? All right, hear me out. Maybe you just landed your first gig out of college. Let's just say, let's say you're a nurse. Shout out to all the nurses out there. You make a really nice, comfortable living. Well, let's just say you don't have a lot of cash savings in your new job location. Okay? So you move to West Hollywood. Average one bedroom's 3k a month. So first in last month, plus the security deposit, that's over 6k before you even unpack a box. Like, wouldn't it be kind of nice to keep a little cash for an emergency peace of mind? That's why I love this service. RNPL helps to rental financing. They help you move in, stay in, and build up a little credit along the way. Yes. So it's like you get like a little loan. You get a little move in loan that covers the first month, last month, and security deposit so you can move in without the usual shock, the upfront burden. Also, like, maybe, maybe you're an existing tenant and you've hit a temporary financial roadblock. Okay? They can provide some cash for up to two months while you get your feet back on the ground. You feel me on this? Are you with me? Okay, maybe you had a slow month or you just got laid off. Can use some cash to float you a couple months. You're probably Schwartz. Alright, why the are you telling us this? Okay, there's been plenty of times in my life when this service would have saved my ass. Would have been a godsend. Okay? And yeah, full disclosure, I do have a small stake in the company, but it's only because I believe in it. It's a smart, fair tool for people who just need like a little breathing room. Not another payday trap, you know, Listen, life, I found out the hard way, it comes at you fast. Bills, just burnout, I don't know, bad luck, bad choices. That's me. Been there. But yeah, RNPL gives you space to catch your breath, to rebuild, to move forward. So check it out if you or someone you know could use a little relief. Check it out, you guys. Rnplcredit.com rent now, pay letter. That's rnpl.com right now. Pay later. Like check it out, you guys. Help me spread the word on this. Okay? So clutch and yeah. Let's get into it with Madison. Love is Blind season nine. She was one of my favorite cast members. Okay. I had a great chat with her. Let's get into it.

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All right. Madison Maidenberg. Hi, how are you?

[Madison Madenberg]

I am doing so well, Tom.

[Tom Schwartz]

If you guys haven't watched these on the new season of Love is Blind, I just finished the finale this morning. It's such a good season. I loved it in the beginning. It was like a slow burn for me. Now I've fallen in love with the entire cast and I'm so invested in you guys. I need a spin off or something. How you feeling? I'm just checking in. I'm doing a wellness check. How's your mental?

[Madison Madenberg]

You know, honestly, I'm doing really well. It's like, of course there's a few trolls here and there, but in general, like, I've had so much love and support and really just taking the good with the bad and riding the wave right now.

[Tom Schwartz]

I love that, riding the wave. And it is a strange and wonderful wave and I'm Glad you're enjoying the surf.

[Madison Madenberg]

Yes, yes, exactly. It's not too bad in the water out here.

[Tom Schwartz]

Can I give you a shout out? Outside of Love is Blind, you're a.

UX and UI designer. For people who don't know, that means.

Like user experience and user interface, which is so cool, by the way, for digital products, right?

[Madison Madenberg]

Yeah. So ux, UI user experience, user interface. And I work a little bit more on the marketing side, which is unique because it is typically more digital products or like app design, but I work more on the marketing and website.

[Tom Schwartz]

Very cool, by the way. Also president, foundation for Fighting Blindness and just all around fabulous human being. Madison, can I just say, at the top, I really, really enjoyed watching you. You were so fun to watch on the show. I appreciate your humor and your vulnerability and I was like, you know what? I want to be friends with her. I gotta be friends with Madison.

[Madison Madenberg]

Consider us besties now, Tom. I'm so here for that.

[Tom Schwartz]

I'm thinking me and you, we hit 7 11, then maybe some karaoke, Maybe a little Fergalicious.

[Madison Madenberg]

You're speaking my love language. How'd you know, Tom?

[Tom Schwartz]

Well, no, let's listen. Okay. I love 7 11. I love karaoke, I love dive bars. I. I gotta ask you, your last meal is at 7:11. What are you getting?

[Madison Madenberg]

Oh, gosh. Well, you know, I have to give a shout out to the Flamin Hot Cheetos. Of course. Getting some Flamin Hots. I'm also a big beef jerky fan. Probably getting like the Jack Links Teriyaki strip and then we'll go for like a Coca Cola Slurpee.

[Tom Schwartz]

Such strong choices, by the way. I respect the hol of it. I'd probably go like some mountain spring bubbly water, maybe some cherry, Coca Cola, Cool Ranch, Doritos, Haribo Peach gummies, and maybe those taquitos that don't look great if you're sober, but if you've had a few, they look enticing.

[Madison Madenberg]

No, they're so good. And then you get their, like, ranch. Been sitting there for like three months and it just hits so different. I don't know how to explain it.

[Tom Schwartz]

Maybe like in a little emergency to sort of hydrate afterwards. And yeah, this is Detox Retox, so I'm trying to break even at least. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. By the way, I love that you love karaoke. In the spirit of retoxing, what do you. What's your go to drink or shot? Before you do, you need to muster up liquid courage. Or do you just go?

[Madison Madenberg]

You know, honestly, at this point, I kind of just go for it. I can't sing at all, so it's. It's really a spectacle. That's why I go for Fergalicious, because I can wrap that little part and that gives me all the flowers I need for it. I'm also a big ABBA fan, so sometimes I'll go for like a little dancing queen or something like that. But if we're talking drinks beforehand. Ooh, my go to drink. Oh, maybe just honestly, let's just go for a straight up tequila shot. Let's like really just go ham.

[Tom Schwartz]

I'm Madison. I'm right there with you. Before I hit that Fergalicious definition, make them boys go loco, I'm gonna need at least one shot of tequila.

[Madison Madenberg]

Yeah, Exact same.

[Tom Schwartz]

Also, this is just. Sorry, this is selfish, but did you get to the hang out with Nick Lachey at all, the host and Vanessa?

[Madison Madenberg]

I. We see them pretty. So, like, you see when they first come in, you know, they kind of get to know all of us girls or guys. So like, I saw them then and then I definitely saw Vanessa more because then she comes in for our dress fitting and kind of got to talk with us. But I got a really cute picture with both of the laches at the reunion, so I'm so jealous.

[Tom Schwartz]

A little bit of, you know, I. Listen, I was. I had my hair. I'm not proud to say this. I had frosted tips. And I was watching TRL in the late 90s singing because of you. I love 98 Degrees. Are you familiar with the band?

[Madison Madenberg]

So I'm semi familiar. My sister is 12 years older than me, so that was like the peak pop culture area era. So she was all about 98 degrees. Backstreet Boys, you know, all in the TMZ People Mag era.

[Tom Schwartz]

Honestly, I think we peaked pre Y2K, but that's just me. Also one of my go to karaoke songs. Yes, because of you, but also Silk Freak Me. And the reason I bring that up, it might seem random. Whoever played Silk Freak Me during that toe sucking scene with Edmund deserves an Emmy, by the way. Did you. Are you watching it back?

[Madison Madenberg]

I am watching it back. And I would actually have to say I think the best needle drop was when my ex fiance left and they played Sabrina Carpenter Manchild shout out to.

[Tom Schwartz]

To the audio supervisors. That was honestly so poignant and beautifully, beautifully executed. Oh, my God. Love is blind. Madison, you have retinitis pigmentosa. Is that. Did I pronounce that I feel like you might just be the most qualified Love is Blind cast member ever, right?

[Madison Madenberg]

I mean, I would say so, yeah. It's kind of funny, you know, I've had a lot of people being like, wow, I can't believe it took this long for them to finally get somebody that's, like, semi visually impaired or, you know, part of the low vision community. And that's really why I went on the show. You know, it's like, hello, I might be blind and love is blind, so let's marry the two and see what we get.

[Tom Schwartz]

Your love. Suffice it to say, your love is extra blind.

[Madison Madenberg]

Yeah, exactly. My love is literally blind.

[Tom Schwartz]

It's a little on the nose, but I love it. Your love is pure, and you have, like, just. You have a beautiful soul. Can I ask you just, like, if we can go back in time for a second? I like to do time travel. Like, the moments leading up to before you signed up to be casted on the show. Like, what was going through your head? Can you talk us through it real quick?

[Madison Madenberg]

You know, it's. It was a six. I want to say it was about a six month process of actually, like, getting on the show. You know, there's a ton of different steps. There's background check, psych eval. You do, like, a whole compatibility questionnaire that took. I mean, that was like seven or eight pages. And so that takes a really long time. So, you know, you really are kind of getting in the mindset for a good amount of time of, like, what do I really want in a partner? What do I bring to the table? You know, how can I show up as my best self? So I think, you know, my mindset was really just thinking, like, how do I show somebody the essence of Madison through a wall and through the. In the pods, right? And then really thinking and grounding in. What is my ideal partner? What qualities do I really want? You know, what are going to be red flags for me? So I think it was just a lot of mental preparation and kind of having to answer questions, questions of myself that I hadn't thought about just in dating in general.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah.

You did a little soul searching before you said yes. Yeah, Y.

[Madison Madenberg]

Absolutely.

[Tom Schwartz]

I like. I like what you said. It's so pure because I'm like, I think some of the more skeptical people will be like, well, they're coming on the show to maximize their following, you know, get brand deals, and that's all great, by the way.

Yes, go for it.

But I feel like you had a pure soul coming onto the show. Is that okay to say?

[Madison Madenberg]

I appreciate that. Yeah. You know, it's like, I definitely don't want to sit here and tell people, like, oh, you know, we all only went on there for the experiment. It's like, of course there's a level. Like, we know we're going on a show. Right. So, like, none of us are naive to that. But I absolutely agree. You know, I. In casting, they were like, you have the most compelling story we've heard in this casting process because you have a true why. You know, a lot of people is like, well, I had a failed engagement or, you know, I had a failed relationship. It's like, you know, a lot of us can relate to that and have kind of been through that. But my why feels a little bit more pressing and a little bit more compelling. And that's kind of why a lot of fans have really connected with me on. On why I went on the show.

[Tom Schwartz]

Eloquently stated you.

Yeah.

Your why was so powerful, and it really irradiated while I was watching it. Like, I felt that I was. I was with you for the journey.

[Madison Madenberg]

I thank you.

[Tom Schwartz]

I really was. But it's like, I was. I don't know if you've ever watched vent. Did you ever watch Vanderpump Rules?

[Madison Madenberg]

I watched bits and pieces, so I do know a little bit.

[Tom Schwartz]

Well, I'm just bonding with you this. I'm having an empathy moment with you because it's like watching yourself back. I can tend it to be one of the most masochistic things. I mean, you can learn a lot, but it's also torture for people who have never done it. The uninitiated, I describe it so, you know, when you hear yourself on, like, a voice message, you're like, my God, I hate my voice. Multiply that times. Thank you. Literally, how did you do watching yourself back for the first time on national television? Did you become neurotic where you. Did you give yourself grace?

[Madison Madenberg]

You know, I would say I fully dissociated in part, like, watching it, it's kind of like you kind of have to. Right. Like, it's kind of like this painful. If I accepted that was me. You know, there's definitely moments that are cringy because we're human beings. And so you watch things back of yourself. Oh, I really said that. Or, you know, wow, the way they edited that really showcased this part of me, you know, So I think there were definitely moments that I felt a little bit like, oh, this is uncomfortable. But it's also like this whole Process is uncomfortable. So I've really learned to, like you said, give myself grace. And, you know, I've had a year and a half to kind of heal and mentally prepare for this. So it's been for sure, but not in a way that's insufferable.

[Tom Schwartz]

You have such a healthy mindset.

Yes.

If you're comfortable, you're not growing, generally speaking, but also, you see this on. You'll see different versions of this meme everywhere, but fear of embarrassment is holding so many people back from new opportunities. You know what I mean? And I'm glad you said yes to the great unknown.

[Madison Madenberg]

Thank you. I am, too. And I totally agree with that. It's like, I think that fear is the biggest stopper in life. And while there's moments that it's definitely scary, like, this is so unknown. Right. There's no guidebook in how to come off of a reality TV show. And in some ways, it's very isolating. Right. Like, talking to friends and family, they're like, well, you seem like you're doing great. Yeah, today I am. You know, yesterday I may have had a full crash out, but in general, I feel like I'm navigating it as best as I can, you know, without really knowing how to do this.

[Tom Schwartz]

You're doing dandy, I would say. There's no guidebook, but you could just watch Vanderpump Rules and do the opposite of everything I ever did. And I think you would be pretty good, I think. Are you still tight with anyone from the cast, or who are you tightest with, if you're okay talking about that?

[Madison Madenberg]

Yeah, I am, actually. Honestly, I always say, like, I really did find love in the pods, like, in my friendships and then especially in myself, but some of my best friends have come from the show. I'm really close with Anna, Kate, Annie. Actually, some of the girls that you don't get to see on the show, I'm also pretty. Pretty good friends with, and then, as far as the guys go, pretty good friends with. Anton Blake is incredible. You know, really, I think we all are great in our own ways, and. And it's so cool to kind of see these friendships come out of this.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah, no, I. I love that. I love that you guys keep in contact because it is a special bond. You kind of commiserate. It's a unique experience that not many people have gone through. Love is blind in particular. Is there any point in which you, like, wanted to go home and you're like, I'm just over it. I don't know if you're allowed to talk about that, but.

[Madison Madenberg]

No, I can talk about that. No, honestly, there was never a point like that for me. Like, I was nervous on it first because it's like, you know, we've heard of the. The legal stuff that's happening, or, you know, other people that have gone on the show and said things about it, and it's like, honestly, I can't say enough good things about production in general. Like, just the way that I was treated. Every team is incredible and really aligned. And then just the experiment as a whole. Like, I've really learned about myself through this. I thrive in the uncomfortable, and I never thought that that was going to be me, but I do very, very well when I'm deeply, deeply uncomfortable and having to just kind of, like, trudge ahead and, like, do rapid growth. So there was really never a moment that I was like, I'm done. I want to go home. It was more just like, okay, how do I keep adapting and keep changing and keep growing so that this is a positive thing for me and not something that, like, haunts me in the long run?

[Tom Schwartz]

I think you just pretty much summarized stoicism right there. Beautifully stated. By the way. I love your. I love your mindset.

[Madison Madenberg]

Thank you. I appreciate that.

[Tom Schwartz]

Okay, this might be a little painful, but if we can go back to Mexico. That was my favorite episode by far, if you're cool with talking about it. It was probably. It's the most entertaining as a viewer, but, like, the hardest to watch and probably the most cringe for me. But, yeah, far and away my favorite episode. It was so raw and real and funny and honest. And you're in Joe's dynamic was fascinating to me. Like, obviously, you're gorgeous, by no means overweight, but just hearing Joe say he prefers skinnier women, stuff like that was. Was it hard, like, watching that back and also getting, like, feedback from the public and having people just, like, scrutinize you, your essence, your body. What a weird, freakish experience.

[Madison Madenberg]

Yeah, it totally is. You know, it's like just going on a show in general. I mean, you can speak to it, too, right? Like, just the scrutiny that you already are going to have from being in this kind of public space is already intense. And then add on top of that, somebody that you're in a relationship with blowing the door wide open on the conversation about your body. It's been difficult, you know, it's definitely been humbling in some ways. It so made me really ground in myself and really, like, know exactly who I Am. And not let certain words carry the weight that they used to for me anymore. But, yeah, you know, hearing. Hearing some of his confessionals and just some of his interviews directly were pretty disturbing, to say the least. I mean, this day and age, where it's like, it's 20, 25, like, at least have the. The wherewithal to understand, like, maybe not commenting on a woman's body or anyone's body. Right?

[Tom Schwartz]

Totally. I was. I was right there with you. Like, and when he. It kind of broke my heart when he said attraction can grow, because that's kind of like a backhanded compliment. And I'm not trying. I'm not trying to pile on him right now. I feel like he has a good heart, but, like, it's got to be one of the least sexy things or uplifting things you can say to a person that you're sort of getting to know or falling in love with.

Right?

I mean. Oh, I was with you.

[Madison Madenberg]

Yeah. Well, it's really bizarre watching it back because, you know, you see a lot. You see me talking about sex a lot, which is funny. And I've started to realize the reason they did that was to show, like, no, no, they were intimate. Like, no, no, this actually wasn't necessarily an attraction thing. And that's. You know, what was so confusing for me is that it's like, okay, so behind the scenes, you're saying. Essentially saying you're not attracted to me, yet you're having sex with me every night. And it kind of has put in perspective for me, like, wow, that's. That's a pretty deep betrayal for somebody. And, you know, especially as a woman when sex can feel so emotionally weighted, to hear it in that way was. Was hard. You know, it was hard to have to reprocess and deal with that because it's like, I don't think that he was unattracted to me. I really. I don't believe that because of the conversations and things that were happening kind of behind the scenes. But, you know, it's. It's definitely weird. It's a weird concept right now.

[Tom Schwartz]

So weird. And I again, applaud and admire your. Just your. Your brutal honesty. I remember, I think it was like, on the boat, and there was like, at one point, you're like, I always.

Have to say I love you first.

And he didn't really. He's like, okay, touche. And you're like, the only time you really tell me you love me is during sexy time. And I thought that was so. I thought that first of all, was so funny and vulnerable, but also, I could tell there was a little undercurrent of pain. Not trying to psychoanalyze you here, but I kind of felt an undercurrent of pain there. And I was like, oh, my God.

[Madison Madenberg]

Yeah, absolutely. You know, because it's like he had told me at that point that you see on the boat, like, three days prior to the more petite women comment. And so it was kind of like I'm sitting here processing. Okay, but we're intimate, and you telling me you love me, and we're doing all these things that feel very connective. And all the while, those comments are in the back of my mind and ultimately making me operate from a very insecure space that I don't usually operate from.

[Tom Schwartz]

Wait, that's so interesting. I appreciate your honesty. Like, really. I just. I think. I think, for the most part, Joe has a good heart, but he really puts his foot in his mouth. Probably needs to work on his words. Sorry, I don't mean to pile on Joe. Also, like, watching him during that one scene, I was like, I used to love getting wasted. I still. I'm a drinker. I love drinking. But, like, I know when someone's blacked out. Joe was literally blacked out. I mean, yeah, he was. He was ham boned. And it. Madison, it freaking hurts when someone doesn't choose you. You know what I mean? You're really putting yourself out there, and then they just. They deny you or they, you know, like, getting broken up with.

On.

In the moment, it looked like it kind of felt. Did you feel like it was leading up to that moment, or were you kind of. Did you feel blindsided when he told you on the couch?

[Madison Madenberg]

That's what's really hard is, like, watching it back. Of course, hindsight's 20 20.

[Tom Schwartz]

Like, 20 20. Yeah.

[Madison Madenberg]

Like, you're seeing a month of my story condensed into, like, cumulatively an hour. And so, of course, watching it, I'm like, damn, Madison. Like, all the signs were there. Like, hello, why didn't you see that? And Run for the Hills. But you know, when you're in it and there's so many other things happening than what you see on camera, it wasn't as clear to me. So I don't know that I felt blindsided. But, you know, we'd had conversations about wanting to really see the experiment through and really do the experiment in its entirety, and it was important to me to honor what that stood for and the effort that we were both putting in. So I don't know that it was so much that I was blindsided by the breakup, but more so of we had kind of agreed to see this experiment through together, and obviously that changed.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah, totally. And it's like, man, like, when you're crying, it's like, you know, it's like when your heart is full and you're really invested in someone and they. And they leave you. It's like, can you give me some reason so I can help rationalize this and take inventory so I can be better next time? It's like, it's so easy to spiral when you don't have a specific reason. But, like, you know, now that you've had some time to process this and reflect, I mean, ultimately, when someone doesn't want to be with you, I mean, that's all you need to hear, right? In 2020, like, hindsight. Right. It's just. That's all you needed to hear. It doesn't mean it doesn't hurt.

[Madison Madenberg]

Yeah, no, and it does hurt. Like, and that's the thing. I think that he said it to me a number of times in different ways that I just didn't hear, you know, and it was like, I. I'm the kind of person that when I commit, I commit wholeheartedly, whether that's in a relationship, my friendships, you know, my goals, and I really dive in and stay in the deep end until I can't anymore. And I think that there were as many opportunities for me to have heard the nuance of this isn't going to work out, and I just didn't.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah. I mean, would you say. I mean, would you say you were kind of blinded by love? I mean.

[Madison Madenberg]

I mean, so I would say so. Yeah. Well. And, you know, I think the other thing to. To your point earlier about, you know, you kind of want to have a bow on it. You kind of want to have a reason of, like, why didn't this work out? Take that inventory. And I think what was also going through my mind is like, we are forever tethered in this, Joe. Like, it is always going to be Madison and I. Madison and Jo, Season nine, like, that going away anytime soon. And so I wanted to kind of start to a place where we could be, you know, amicable and just kind of exist together in a way that didn't feel hurtful to me anymore.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah. Beautifully stated. And, like, it's so easy as a viewer to watch and be like, madison, know your self work. No, know your self worth. Walk away. But it's so much easier said than done, especially when you're in the moment and your heart is invested in another person. So I just wanted to give you a shout out for that. It's also such a unique, strange setting. You know what I mean? It's so. It's being on a reality television show, cameras in your face, you know, being vulnerable on national TV for the first time. At least I think it's for the first time. Have you been on TV before?

[Madison Madenberg]

Yeah. Yep. For the first time. 100%. Yeah. And it's like I was right there with the rest of the viewers. Like, I'm watching. I'm like, God damn, I'm an idiot.

[Tom Schwartz]

He's just not that into me. No, but I get it.

[Madison Madenberg]

I know. I get it. I see the same thing now.

[Tom Schwartz]

I mean, it's like, such a relatable thing. We've all been in that position. I've been in both, so I've been Joe before, but maybe not.

Okay.

I don't want to say that I don't empathize, but we. I think we've been in both positions. You know what I mean? But I just was empathizing you. I was riding hard with you. I was. It broke my heart to see you crying on the couch. It really did. We should lighten things up. It's getting too serious. Let's lighten things up. I don't. I don't want to keep you.

[Madison Madenberg]

I love it.

[Tom Schwartz]

Okay.

[Madison Madenberg]

No, you're good.

[Tom Schwartz]

I love, like, cute little moments that are like. Like little, like, sweet nothings or, like, idiosyncrasies. Is there just, like, off the top of your head, is there any other, like, cute little moments that you remember that, like, that you're very fond of? Cute little sentimental moments? Maybe the cameras didn't pick up. Or when you think back, that you just, like, kind of are fond of.

[Madison Madenberg]

You know, it's hard. It's Right. Cause it's been, like, a year and a half, and I feel like my brain has blocked out a lot of that because it's emotionally taxing to think about the good in a relationship ending, you know? But little cute moments. I mean, we had very similar senses of humor, and I wish that the audience got to see. See that more, honestly, because we're both, like, pretty witty and, like, kind of silly. But one of my favorite moments was we were in my apartment and we were walking around, and I was telling him about how, like, I had painted the walls, and, like, I think I'm an electrician. Like, I did all of my own light installs and you know, we're talking about just kind of, like, life in general. And he's like, yeah, you know, I really like the walls. Like, what do you use? And I was like, paint. And, like, the whole crew, like, just starts cracking up. And it's just little moments like that that you're like, oh, yeah, we're, like, on a show right now. You know, you completely forget because you just are being a human, right, and talking with somebody, and that was kind of just a cute moment. He's like, no, I meant, like, what color? I'm like, oh, I don't know. Like, Chantilly Lace.

[Tom Schwartz]

Like, I know Joe's. Yeah, Joe said some despicable things, but I also found him endearing on some level. Are you allowed to talk about whether you guys are still friends?

[Madison Madenberg]

I can talk about it. Yeah.

[Tom Schwartz]

I don't know if I don't want to get you in trouble, but, yeah.

[Madison Madenberg]

No, no, no, you won't get me in trouble. No, we. We are not friends. There's just. Honestly, like, when we see each other, it's just like, hey, how are you? Okay. Like, we just. We do not understand one another. And, you know, he may be the best guy, but he's not my fucking guy.

[Tom Schwartz]

Totally. Totally. I love that. I love your attitude right now. You seem so healthy and happy, and I love your positive mindset. It's. It's. It's infectious. I'm inspired. No one got married if you didn't watch yourself. Sorry, Wait.

Oh, spoiler alert.

No one got married. What did you think about the finale? Were you surprised that none of the couples got married?

[Madison Madenberg]

So. Okay, this is hilarious. I haven't watched the whole finale. I've only watched through. I know. It's so funny. I've only watched through Ally. But, like, I know what happens, obviously, because, like, I, you know, talk to the cast. I'm not. I'm not surprised. I. You know, I think that we're all very different individuals, and I think, unfortunately, we just did not find our pairings this season. I don't know if something's just in the water in Denver or what, but, yeah, it's not that I'm surprised. It's just kind of like, damn. Like, I would have loved to have, like, one gem couple from this.

[Tom Schwartz]

I'm more surprised when there is. When the success stories do happen, and they have happened throughout the history of the show. I'm so impressed with the fact that you can meet someone and prove that love actually is blind. If you had to pick a couple who could have Maybe went the distance. Who do you think the top contender was?

[Madison Madenberg]

That's a really hard one. Honestly. Like, I don't even think I could pick because I know them all just as individuals that, like, I can't even decide, like, which ones would go because I wasn't in their relationships. You know what I mean? Like, Anton's a great guy. I love him. I think Ali is super sweet. Edmund is hilarious. You know, he's genuinely a great hearted guy. Like, KB is so grounded and down to earth. So that's what's so hard is that it's like, quality wise, like, incredible people just didn't mesh. I don't know.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah, I was, man. Anton and Ali's wedding. Listen, for sure she made the right choice. As hard as that is in the moment, it's, you know, obviously the latter. Saying yes when you really don't mean it in your heart's not, and it is a bigger disaster. Any comments on that? Are you. Are you tight with them still?

[Madison Madenberg]

I am. You know, I love both of them, honestly. I think they're both such great people. And I think, you know, honestly, there were moments even when I was in it, where people say, like, oh, come on, like, you definitely knew before you went to the altar. And I'm like, honestly, I don't know that she did. I don't know that anybody truly does because I was still going through moments of like, oh, I don't know, maybe I'm gonna say yes, maybe I'm not. Like, you know. So I think that it really, truly is kind of the thing that you don't know until you get to the altar. So, you know, I think ultimately she followed her heart and I think that speaks well for her.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah, totally.

By the way, I thought such a.

Funny moment was in the. When, like the editors, she was sort of riffing and reminiscing on why he just wasn't the one. And she's like, I found out through his friends that he has some poor drinking and eating habits. And then they. They had a cutscene to him eating tortilla chips. It was so funny. The editors did him so dirty. I thought, I know.

[Madison Madenberg]

Like, truly, for the record, like, Anton does not have a drinking problem at all. So it's like, it's. It's sad, you know, when you see your friends get portrayed in a certain way. But, you know, we, we all have our, our detox retox moments. Right? So I think, I think that I don't fault him at all for, for, you know, his behavior on the show.

[Tom Schwartz]

No, I give people so much grace when they're drinking on camera. Listen, I've been called the lush many times. I'm not. I'm not an alcoholic. I'm not a drunk. But I do love drinking. Maybe sometimes too much, but, like, yeah, I have a lot of grace for people because it's a coping mechanism. Sometimes you're doing something uncomfortable, like filming a show like Love is Blind anyways. Yeah. By the way, is it still too fresh to ask if you've learned anything about yourself watching this season back?

[Madison Madenberg]

Oh, my gosh, absolutely. I have really learned to trust my intuition. Like, I've really learned that when the alarm bells go off, like, lean into that. Don't. Don't silence them. Like, pay attention to them, you know, I think throughout this experience, there was definitely moments, like I said, where I knew intuitively was going on. I idealized him and I idealized our relationship far more than I should have have. And that made me a little bit numb to, you know, what the reality actually was. So I think I really learned, you know, to lean into my intuition. Definitely learn to have a little bit more patience. I mean, you know, when you're on a show, it's like, it's bizarre. You. You aren't acting totally normal. You try your best, but, you know, there's definitely moments that I think I hit my breaking point faster than I normally would because it's such a high intensity situation to begin with.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah.

And you're not around your usual friends and family, your home, your bed, you're not sleeping your regular hours. So, yeah, it does distort your reality a little bit, right?

[Madison Madenberg]

Totally. It totally does.

[Tom Schwartz]

By the way, I saw an article today. I don't think we can talk about it. It said Megan is pregnant. And I was like, whoa. You don't have to comment. I just, I. That's the first thing I saw when I opened Instagram today, but.

[Madison Madenberg]

Oh, my gosh.

[Tom Schwartz]

Listen. No, no, no. I know. Anyways, I could talk to you for hours and we can pick up via karaoke next time you're in town, but I just wanted to say thank you for doing this.

[Madison Madenberg]

Oh, my gosh, thank you so much for having me, Tom. Seriously, it's like, so much fun to.

[Tom Schwartz]

Talk with you, Madison. You have. You have such a good fudgeing attitude about the whole process. I love that you're not jaded or bitter. I feel like you've grown from it, and I just love your. Your fresh perspective on it. I love that you enjoyed the ride. You're enjoying the wave.

[Madison Madenberg]

Thank you. Yeah, I mean, you know, there's high highs and low lows, but it's like, in general, I'm just really leaning into my support system, leaning into who I know might be, and it's been fun. It's definitely a wave, but it's a lot of fun.

[Tom Schwartz]

Wait, last thing. Current favorite reality shows.

[Madison Madenberg]

Ooh, God, I haven't even had time to watch any other reality shows except my own right now. Favorite reality shows. Traitors. Absolute. Big fan of traitors. Been really into Dancing with the Stars lately. Like, shout out Robert Irwin, like such a cutie. What else have I been? I think that's. Honestly, it's. It's been Love is Blind and Dancing with the Stars and then waiting for the new traders. That's where I'm at right now.

[Tom Schwartz]

Such strong choices. Okay, wait, one last hypothetical. One of your bff, someone you love and care about comes to you and they're like, madison, I just signed up for Love is Blind. What are you telling them?

[Madison Madenberg]

Oh, I would tell them, get so grounded in yourself before you go on. Like, seriously, lean into who you know yourself to be and be immovable. Become. Become a mountain and stand tall in that and you'll be fine.

[Tom Schwartz]

Beautifully stated.

We'll end on that note. On a high note. Madison, thank you so much. I appreciate you.

[Madison Madenberg]

Yes, thank you so much, Tom. This is so fun.

[Tom Schwartz]

So freaking fun.

Retoxification complete.

[Adam Rippon]

Hi, I'm Adam Rippon, and this is Intrusive Thoughts, the podcast where I finally say the stuff out loud that's been living rent free in my head for years. From dumb decisions to awkward moments I probably should have kept to myself. Nothing's off limits. Yes, I'm talking about the time I lost my phone mid flight and still haven't truly emotionally recovered from that. There might be too many sound effects. I've been told to chill. Will I? Unclear. But if you've ever laid awake at night cringing at something you said five years ago, congratulations, you found your people. Intrusive Thoughts with Adam Rippon is available now. Wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Madison Madenberg]

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