Plant Therapy: Turning Nature Into Your Personal Playlist

Summary

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Detox Retox with Tom Schwartz

Episode: "Plant Therapy: Turning Nature Into Your Personal Playlist"

Date: April 1, 2026

Guest: Joe Patitucci (Founder of Plant Wave and CEO of Data Garden)

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the intersection of plant consciousness, sound, and mindfulness. Host Tom Schwartz explores the powerful, often overlooked relationships we have with our houseplants—emotionally, energetically, and now musically. Joined by Joe Patitucci of Plant Wave, the two embark on a digital detox, talking to Tom’s plants and listening to their bio-generated music in real time. The result is an experiential journey into plant "communication," the science behind plant music, and how tuning into nature can harmonize our busy, tech-drowned lives.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Setting the Intention: Why Talk to Plants?

• Tom opens with musings on the internet drama of the week (Valley season 3, canceled shows) and advocates for a "drama detox" by connecting to nature—specifically, houseplants.
• He wonders if plants are aware when we talk to them and references science indicating they respond to sound vibrations, not language, reinforcing the value of positive vibes for both people and plants.
• Tom Schwartz:

  “Can you imagine if all the houseplants from all of our favorite Bravo shows got together and started a podcast? My God, that shit would be juicy.” (02:18)

• He segues into “interviewing” his plants with the help of Joe and tech from Plant Wave.
• [03:34-04:33] Tom frames plants as "chlorophyll confidants," essential yet often neglected members of our lives, and hints at deeper awareness and vitality than we commonly recognize.

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The Science Behind Plant Music (with Joe Patitucci)

• Introduction to Joe, Plant Wave, and Data Garden.
• What is Plant Wave?
  • Joe Patitucci:

    “Plantwave is this little device… it reads these slight electrical changes that are happening in plants and it translates that into sound. So it’s a way of monitoring real living data in plants and giving us the ability to have an experience of it.” (06:41-07:11)

  • Two sensors are attached to a plant’s leaves, measuring electrical conductivity influenced by water movement during photosynthesis. These readings are converted to musical notes, which play through digital instruments.
  • The tech is derived from polygraph circuits originally used to measure changes in moisture—the same principle behind lie detectors. (09:10-10:48)
• Joe shares his background as a musician and fascination with the creative force of nature, ultimately leading him to Plant Wave.
• Tom Schwartz:

  “It’s a measurable sound frequency you can hear from the plant.” (08:45)

• [11:05-13:11] Discussion of the “Wood Wide Web” (mycorrhizal network) and plant communication, with a nod to researcher Suzanne Simard.

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Plant Energy, Mindfulness, and “Woo”

• Delving into “plant consciousness” and energy work:
  • Joe admits he doesn't "talk" to plants, but rather "vibes" with them—communicating through feelings, not words.
  • There’s discussion of forest bathing (shinrin yoku), phytoncides, and the calming effect of nature’s chemistry.
  • Joe Patitucci:

    “Woo is just real experiences that people can have that aren’t understood by science yet… I’m just exploring it and thinking, what if I live my life like that?” (14:09-14:53)

• The pair laugh about consulting crystals and plants for guidance, but Joe notes that Plant Wave originated partly from such experimental, open-minded approaches to nature.
• Plant "responses" to energy, presence, and mood are discussed, with anecdotal and some scientific backing.

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Live Plant Wave Session: Listening to Tom’s Plants

[18:04–47:57]

Mr. Monstera

• Connecting sensors leads to real-time music from Tom's Monstera plant.
• The music shifts after Tom and the group do a deep breathing exercise together.
• Joe Patitucci:

  “Notice how the music changed a little bit after we breathed… it was a little more active in the beginning. Now it’s a little bit…” (19:46–19:56)

• Discusses how plants feed off exhaled CO₂, completing a cycle of mutual benefit.

Mrs. Aloe Vera

• The Aloe plant's sound is “juicy” and soothing, transporting Tom imaginatively to forests or Bora Bora.
• Tom Schwartz:

  “I feel like I’m astral projecting to, like, a beautiful forest in Japan, maybe. Bora Bora.” (24:59)

The Corn Plant

• Corn plant is “shy” and less musically active, likely due to dryness.
• Joe:

  “Way less active. I mean, you can see this guy wants a little water, right?” (30:04–30:08)

• Tom playfully apologizes and reflects on the need to care for his plants more attentively.

The Orchid

• The orchid’s music is described as “kind of Stranger Things esque, Cynthia.”
• Joe recalls his "eureka" moment with Plant Wave when he first heard a plant’s unique musical expression.
• Joe Patitucci:

  “It was like my whole body lit up… the plant just completely changed the signal it was giving and just like, shot up in activity.” (30:51–31:40)

• Emphasizes the purist approach: Plant Wave music is always real-time, never pre-recorded or looped.

The ZZ Plant

• Highly melodic and active, evoking nostalgia and childhood wonder for Tom.
• Tom Schwartz:

  “It reminds me of being a kid in the 90s.” (37:49–38:09)

• The plant's music notably changes in response to Tom’s voice, as if “pausing” to listen—creating a playful conversational dynamic.

The Pothos

• The Pothos plant’s music is flowing, mellow, and aligns with Tom’s emotional expectations for the plant.
• Joe discusses how Plant Wave users can select from many "sound sets" to match different plants, moods, or personal preferences.
• Tom Schwartz:

  “I just like the way it gently kind of washes over you. It kind of feels exactly how I thought my pothos would sound.” (46:55–47:10)

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Reflection, Philosophy, and Consciousness

• [41:32–44:18] Deep dive into whether plants are conscious:
  • Joe posits that consciousness could be “all pervasive,” with every being as a unique “node” or antenna for that field. Plants have a distinct type of intelligence suited to their needs.
  • Joe Patitucci:

    “Every being is intelligent to the extent that it needs to be for its own survival and thrival…they’re conscious, but…in their own dimension.” (41:32–43:51)

• Tom laments his digital screen time and underscores the importance of real connection—with people, with plants, and with the present moment.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Go touch grass. Go hug a tree. Right. Go smell the roses.” – Tom Schwartz (12:41)
• “Maybe it works like intermittent fasting, you know, like, you’re just, like, getting the growth hormone going or something.” – Joe Patitucci (32:57–33:03)
• “Woo is just real experiences that people can have that aren’t understood by science yet.” – Joe Patitucci (14:09)
• “We’re jazzing. This is cool. …This has never before heard music.” – Tom Schwartz (38:29–38:41)
• “Connecting to the unknown, right… It’s important for humans to experience wonder.” – Joe Patitucci (34:30–34:38)
• “For me, like, plants are here to teach us to listen.” – Joe Patitucci (48:56)
• “I feel closer… I feel like I’m in, like, couples therapy with my plants. We’re bonding and I hear you guys. I see you guys.” – Tom Schwartz (48:15)
• “Like, what’s this world like right now?…This is like being in a fort as a kid…Your houseplant all of a sudden becomes this imaginary world.” – Joe Patitucci (37:08–37:37)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:34–04:33] – Tom’s intro, digital detox set-up, musings on plant awareness
• [06:41–10:48] – Joe explains Plant Wave's technology and history
• [11:05–13:11] – Discussion of forest “internet” (Wood Wide Web) and plant chemistry
• [14:09–16:19] – Energy work, “woo,” and using plants for divination
• [18:04–47:57] – Live sessions with Monstera, Aloe, Corn Plant, Orchid, ZZ Plant, and Pothos (musical performances and commentary)
• [41:32–44:18] – Philosophical exploration of plant intelligence/consciousness
• [47:57–49:11] – Final reflections, where to find Joe and Plant Wave online, closing gratitude

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Tone & Takeaways

Tom maintains a laid-back, humorous, and slightly irreverent but earnest approach. He’s curious, self-deprecating, and genuinely enchanted by the live plant music and Joe’s insights. Joe brings grounded expertise, poetic reflections, and enthusiasm for intersecting art, science, and spirituality.

Key Lessons:

• Plants are remarkably dynamic, interactive beings whose biological signals can be translated into real-time music.
• Science and “woo” are not always at odds; openness to wonder can enrich our lives.
• There is value in slowing down, connecting deeply with the world around us, and tuning into subtle forms of communication—whether with plants or with ourselves.

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Further Info

• Find Joe/Plant Wave: plantwave.com + @natureofnow on Instagram
• Episode message:
  “Show yourself a little love. Hug that tree. Smell that rose. Touch that grass…Don’t forget to breathe. And listen.” (48:43–49:11, closing thoughts)

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Transcript

[A]

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[B]

It's now time for your weekly detox with Tom Schwartz.

[A]

Guys, what is up? Harmony check. Feeling good in the neighborhood? Valley season three starts today. How you feeling? You look good. You feel good? My God, the Internet's been crazy lately. Socials are going off. The Internet is ablaze. A lot of drama, man. They say if these walls could talk. Lately, at least today, I've been wondering. What if our houseplants could talk. Do they listen? Do they understand us on some level when we talk to them? Like we talk to our cats, our dogs, our friends, family, loved ones. Maybe to the voices inside of our heads. Maybe to yourself in the mirror. Careful with that mirror work. We'll do a whole episode on that. But I'm asking you guys, do you talk to your plants? Maybe you should do. You can find your juiciest secrets in them. Would you be stressing out if you found out your plants are listening all the time? Probably a little bit. Can you imagine if all the houseplants from all of our favorite Bravo shows got together and started a podcast? My God, that shit would be juicy. But today's episode, we're gonna open up a portal to another world. Yeah, we're gonna interview my house plants. Okay. Stick with me, okay? I don't want to lose you. I know what you think. It's schwartzy. You gotta lay off the shroomies. Or is this an April Fool's joke? No, you guys, there's research that supports our plants being able to detect and respond to the things we say. Not the words, per se, but, like, the vibrations, the vibes. Right. Maybe they don't understand exactly what I mean when I'm crying because they forgot my Diablo sauce, my delivery order. But maybe they feel me. You feel certain frequencies. Such as? Like, gentle music, soft voices, nature. Sounds good. Vibes can have a positive effect on plant growth. There's science to support this. Also, bad vibes, harsh vibrations can cause stress, slow growth. I was thinking today we check in with my plants, do a little drama. Detox. A digital detox. You guys in? You heard right? Yeah. Stick with me. We're gonna hopefully here my houseplants make music for us with Joe Patitucci, the founder of Plant Wave and CEO of Data Garden. It's a company that pioneers technology for translating plant electrical signals into music. Can you dig it? Yes. Sweet. Big day Valley season three premiere. Internet's crazy right now. We could all use a little digital detox. My God. Summer House, Amanda, Wes, the Bachelor canceled. All right, I'm gonna mind my business because, well, people on that show are my friends. Also, I don't want to give Bravo PR Any gray hairs. Stress anybody out. You know, I'm not really a culture vulture. Gossip hound. Although I do enjoy it. I do partake, but I just felt like we'd use a little. A little detox today.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. I was feeling kind of sad about the whole thing. You know what? Thing kind of made me sad? Yeah, man. But, yeah, I thought it'd be nice to cut through the noise, take a little break, take a nice deep breath. Take a deep breath of that sweet, sweet oxygen that our plants give us. Thank you, plants. Without you, we'd be dead. Our little chlorophyll confidants. Thank you for purifying our air and allowing us to live. Yeah, man. You give us life, and you guys can't even remember to water them. Can't even get a little fertilizer. You need to remember this next time you forget to water your plants. They're very much alive. We don't always acknowledge that. And they're moving. They're dynamic. They react to external stimuli. Are they conscious? It's a whole philosophical debate. A great YouTube rabbit hole if you want to go down there. But, yeah, let's go check in the studio with Joe, and hopefully we're gonna hear a little symphony from my plants. Yeah. With Joe, he needs to explain to us how it works. This is gonna be cool. It's gonna be groovy. All right, next stop, studio with Joe. Let's go. Let's get into it. Okay, you guys, very special guest in the house today. Joe is in the house. Founder of Plant Wave. We got Johanna in the house. Aaron's here. We got all my plants, most of my plants, as many as I could fit in the studio. And we had to rerecord the intro because I'm an idiot and I forgot to hit record. Joe, thank you for your patience.

[B]

Love being here. Just feel very at home. I'm amongst plants. I'm amongst great people. And, yeah, let's. Let's do it.

[A]

So for people who are not familiar with Plant Wave, can you describe what it is?

[B]

Yeah. Plantwave is this little device here and what it does is it reads these slight electrical changes that are happening in plants, and it translates that into sound. So it's a way of monitoring real living data in plants and giving us the ability to have an experience of it.

[A]

Yeah. So it's nice. Today we're gonna have a conversation with my plants. Yes. Are you a plant person?

[B]

Obviously, I became a plant person through music and the plants. I mean, the plants brought me here, so. Yeah, sure.

[A]

Yeah, the plants brought us together.

[B]

Mm. For sure.

[A]

This is a beautiful moment. I'm very grateful you came all the way from Venice. And do you want to describe how plant wave works? We don't have to get too techy, but in layman's terms, if you want. Or we can get techy. We can go as deep as you want to go, but yeah. How does plant wave work?

[B]

So plant wave works by. We attach two sensors to a plant's leaves, and we're measuring these very slight changes in electrical connection between two points. So why does that happen? Well, plants are, as they're photosynthesizing, they're moving chloroplasts around, and so they're using water to do that. So as we're measuring these changes in conductivity, we're measuring changes in the amount of water between the two points as the plant is moving water around to photosynthesize. So we just take that change over time. What's that look like, a graph? Yeah, it's like a wave. Right? So, yeah, that change over time is a wave. All waves have frequency. We just translate that frequency into a note and then run that to an instrument. So every single note that you hear from plant wave is a real time expression of a biological process that's happening in the plant.

[A]

That is so cool. So, yes, it's backed in science. Yes. It's a measurable sound frequency you can hear from the plant.

[B]

It's a measurable frequency that can be derived from the plant and turned into sound.

[A]

That is so cool. You guys. We're geeking out today, so we're going to listen to some of my plants. Can I. Do you have a background in music? How did you get into this? Such a niche world here?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So inspiration for plant wave.

[B]

Yeah. You know, I was in bands forever, like in the 90s and early 2000s and things, and then I started to make solo electronic music.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I noticed that I was most inspired by. By kind of going out into the woods and connecting to the feeling of a place and recording the sounds of nature and then going into the studio and Listening to that, but not necessarily using it in the music, but listening to the nature sounds and feeling that. And then like, music would kind of channel through me. And what I started to think about is like, wow, it's almost like these natural places have this, like, this energy in them. This like, creative force of the universe is expressing itself through me, through nature. And I thought, what would happen if I connected directly to nature and had that express itself as music? And yeah, my buddy at the time who was super into plant consciousness studies and all these things that were being done in the 70s where people were trying to feel, figure out if plants were conscious or how they might be responding to different forms of like, psychic energy and things like that. And we saw that one of the ways they were doing that was they were hooking up lie detectors to plants, because a lie detector is measuring this change in moisture over time. So actually, the circuitry that we use within Plant Wave, the main sensor circuit, is actually the same thing that was used in polygraph.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's so neat. That is so neat.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't know a lot about plant neurobiology, but I think we all know that plants are far more intelligent than most people realize. The way they communicate with each other, which I've just learned about, you know about the Wood Wide Web.

[B]

Wood Wide Web, yeah. Suzanne Simard.

[A]

Yes, that's right. Wait, can you. Can we talk. Can we talk about that for a second? Do you know a little bit about that?

[B]

A little bit. I mean, yeah, there's this. Basically, Suzanne Simard figured out that the trees communicate through this mycelial network.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so if one tree is maybe not as healthy as it would be best for that, other trees might send some nutrients their way because they want to have a healthy forest. They don't want to have one tree get some disease, then ends up killing all the other trees. So they kind of work together and communicate through this mycelium network, which is so cool.

[A]

Yeah. So for the uninitiated, it's pretty much the forest Internet. Yeah, yeah, it's the forest Internet. And I love going on walks. I hike Fryman all the time. And I recently learned about. Have you ever. To fight insides fight inside. It's like. So it's like. It's what? It's the chemicals the plants release when they are threatened by maybe a pest or something.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

But it's nice. It's very calming for us to breathe in. It smells like fresh cut grass.

[B]

I was just going to say that we love fresh cut Grass. And it's like grass screaming. Yes, Screaming with chemicals.

[A]

For me, it's like, I've only used this a few times. I'm really. You guys, we're going to get into it. I'll stop yapping. But, like, it's. It's very meditative. It's very calming, and it's a nice moment just to take and be still and be present and just more mindful of the world around you.

[B]

Right, for sure.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's like, you know, I don't mean this in a snarky way, but you guys go touch grass. Go hug a tree. Right. Go smell the roses.

[B]

Yeah. We're electrical beings. And there's, you know, grounding exists for a reason. You wire your house and you ground your electricity. There's a lot of evidence that, you know, walking barefoot or hugging a tree and things like that can help to reduce inflammation in the body. So go do it.

[A]

Yes. Yeah. Feel the rain on your skin. That is the moral of today's episode. You've heard of the Japanese term for forest bathing?

[B]

Oh, yes. Shinrin yoku.

[A]

Yes. Yeah, this is a new one for me. Anyways, I love the concept of that forest bathing. You just kind of go out and you soak up.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The fighting sides and just the fresh air and it's like. I do. Do you talk to your plants?

[B]

I. I don't really talk to them. I kind of just vibe with them. I like to say I speak in their language, which is just feeling. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Not necessarily. Not through words per se, but yeah, through a feeling.

[B]

And you can kind of like feel the energy between your hands and the plant. Yeah, you can kind of do that. I know you had like a Reiki healer on the podcast recently.

[A]

Yeah, recently we did a. We did a sound bath, which is a form of healing frequency. And then we also did a mini Reiki session at Fred Parker Wellness on Ventura Boulevard. But, yeah, I like woo. Woo's not a bad word in this world.

[B]

Yeah. And it's also like, a lot of times woo is just real experiences that people can have that aren't understood by science yet, and so it can get demonized sometimes. They could be experiences that people are projecting meaning on. And. And that's where it gets, I guess, dangerous or where it gets just to be. Maybe not reality based, but a lot of times I like to think of it as if there's something that's. That I'm experiencing. That's woo. I'm just exploring it and I'm just thinking, oh, wow, that's interesting. It's almost like this is happening. Is that what's happening? I'm not sure. But what if it is? What if I live my life like that, to experiment? Does that have benefit for me or. Or not?

[A]

There's no downside, that's for sure.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, yeah, exactly. It's like, I'm not going to make, like, financial decisions based on asking my

[A]

plant or my crystal, which I have many. I'm like, why not? Why not? You know, I'm rocking the rose quartz for Schwartz. Why not? I see no downside, as long as you're not basing major life decisions off what your crystal's telling you.

[B]

Or maybe you are. At the same time, I can honestly say that Plant Wave wouldn't exist without me using my plants as a divination tool in some way. So sometimes I'll just, like, have a conversation about different ideas. Hey, what if we did this? What if we did that? And then when I have a good idea, the plant, sometimes I'll hear, like, the music completely change. I'm like, hey, maybe that's a good idea. Like, maybe the plants agree, and maybe it's because the. Maybe it's just, you know, plants are eating light that we can't see. Right. And so that's. That includes, like, heat or just the feeling of you get when somebody walks in a room and it feels like they're a bright light.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So, like, it could be that plants are responding to that. Yeah. And so just as a thought experiment, it's like, oh, well, if I had a great idea and the plants changed at that moment, like, maybe the plants are responding to something that's in me. That is an illumination that, like, oh, my body loves that idea and I should do it.

[A]

That's so beautifully stated, by the way. That was downright poetic. But, yeah, plants respond to their environment. Light, touch, vibrations. I do feel like they can sense my energy when I come in. I don't have, like, long form conversations with them, but, like, they're not my de facto therapist. Sometimes they are, actually. I like to think that they enjoy watching reruns of Friends with me at night.

[B]

Right, sure, sure.

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

Like, better them than me.

[A]

Well, our voice. Well, our voice creates tiny vibrations. Right. And, yeah, they can. Apparently. Like, there's studies that show that they can influence their growth patterns. I don't know if you have. Is there any validity to this?

[B]

Yeah, I've seen studies about plants responding differently, whether their caretakers are there or not. And Plants not only are responding to kind of light and things. I just saw this, this, this video recently where Formula one teams actually have these laser cameras that they shine into their opponents like trailers to read people's voices by reading the way people's voices interact with a leaf. So you can actually like point a laser and a camera at a leaf to be able to see how it's moving and pick up what the sound is. So somebody could be. You could probably just have us. It's like lip reading, but leaf reading.

[A]

That is so fucking cool. That's some James Bond stuff there.

[B]

For sure.

[A]

Really impressive. But yes, I love my plants. I'm excited to hear what they have to say today. Should we. Should we do a little session?

[B]

Let's do it.

[A]

Let's do a little session.

[B]

All right, cool. So.

[A]

All right, let's do it. I'm excited. Where should we start with? Should we start with Mr. Monstera? Yeah, this is my Monstera plant right here. I have a few of these.

[B]

Absolutely. So, yeah, so I'm gonna connect.

[A]

Do you want to talk us through this? Yeah. So we just hook up the little nodes.

[B]

I'll connect one here and then when I connect the second one, you'll start to hear some sound. And every single note that you hear is a real time expression of the connection between these two points. Actually, I'll connect it here. These two points and the change that's happening. Talk to me so we can tune in.

[A]

There it is. That's nice.

[B]

And you can use this moment. Yeah, maybe take a. Let's just take a big deep breath feeling.

[A]

Take a deep breath, guys.

[B]

Everybody.

[A]

In through the nose. In through the nose, guys.

[B]

One more really big inhale and then with a sigh, you can exhale.

[A]

That was nice. I've always. I probably talk to my Monstera more than any plant, but it's always been a one way conversation. So it's nice to hear you, Mr. Monstera.

[B]

Notice how the music changed a little bit after we breathed. Yeah, like it was a little more active in the beginning. Now it's a little bit.

[A]

Yeah, that was nice, right?

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And they do feed off our energy. They also like when we exhale.

[B]

We.

[A]

We exhale CO2. Right. And that's what they use to promote photosynthesis.

[B]

Right? I love it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm feeling it. Are you guys vibing with us? This is cool. It's kind of trippy. You kind of feel like I'm shrooming without shrooms.

[B]

Yeah. There's a lot of science behind that. As well there. I actually did a talk for Psychedelic Talk around this for Big Think and a little performance. And we were talking about some of the phenomenon. One of them is called stochastic resonance.

[A]

Can we say that again?

[B]

Stochastic resonance.

[A]

Oh, that has a nice ring to it.

[B]

Yeah. And so you know when you lay under a tree and the wind's blowing and you're just looking at the filtered sunlight through the leaves. Yeah. So that's relaxing. Or we're staring out at. At the ocean as the ripples are reflecting sunlight. What is happening there is that there's a perfect amount of randomness and noise that obliterates your predictive capacity as a human for. To say, like, what's going to happen next? And because you can't predict what's going to happen next, it actually forces you into a relaxed state.

[A]

So it's kind of surrendering to the moment. That's an oversimplification of what you just said.

[B]

No, that's a. That's a great way of saying.

[A]

Oh, it is.

[B]

Yeah. For sure.

[A]

Um, by the way, didn't mean I wasn't going on my phone, but when you. One of my favorite things in life. What up, Aaron? One of my favorite things in life is. Yeah, this is. This is also kind of like sunbathing, but when the. The way lights shine through the trees, there's a term for it, a Japanese term. We talked about another episode. It's called comorebi. It's like a light shining through the trees. One of my favorite things and always just makes me feel grateful just to be alive, to get to experience things like that. That was beautiful, Mr. Monstera.

[B]

How about.

[A]

Should we. Should we try.

[B]

Let's try the corn. It actually, like, it chilled out after it, like hard chilled. It's. I didn't change anything. It's like, chill now.

[A]

It feels safe. This is a safe place, Mr. Place.

[B]

It's like I don't have to perform anymore, man. I'm like, just being with you guys.

[A]

This is nice. I feel like we're really bonding. Should we talk to Mr. Or. This is Mrs. Aloe. Aloe Vera.

[B]

Yeah. We're going to want to use some different sensors for that, but I got those right here.

[A]

Are you guys with us? Are you. Are you. Are you digging this? This is cool. I've always wanted to do this.

[B]

Okay, cool.

[A]

Oh, sorry about that.

[B]

Oh, sorry.

[A]

Did I get you?

[B]

No, it's all good. At least it's not a agave or. Yeah, it's not a cactus.

[A]

Yeah, they're Kind of sharp, but just a little prickly.

[B]

A little sharp, but like. Yeah, that's all right. I. I've been assaulted by plants before.

[A]

You guys be mindful of what you say around your plants and also what you say to yourself.

[B]

All right.

[A]

No negative self talk. Right. How's it. How's your inner critic? You at peace with yourself?

[B]

Yeah, I'm pretty. I'm pretty. All right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What you're. Oh, I should probably.

[A]

I got you. You got me.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Sorry, guys.

[B]

So, yeah, I think what you said there is a big thing of what got me to keep making plant music. After I started. I just started as an experiment. And then what I noticed was that there were certain people sometimes that plants would seem to respond to. And then when I would bring that up to them, they'd say, oh, yeah, that makes sense. I'm a Reiki master. I'm an energy healer. And it got me to start to think that, oh, okay, so plants are responding to light that we can't see. They're responding to different kinds of energy that we don't really perceive. So what kind of energy am I bringing right now?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, and then. So it just changed how I started to think about myself.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that. Yeah, I think that was a big part of helping with inner critic. Just the plants witnessing me and reflecting what's happening.

[A]

Yeah, I can be sporadically hard on myself, but, like, I've read these studies and, like, it can have real measurable consequences on the brain and body because. Yeah, you interpret those as, like, genuine threats. Your body doesn't know the difference. Even if you're just venting to yourself. Not to get too deep about that, but. Yeah, I've been. Just be kind to yourself. Starting to feel like Mr. Rogers now.

[B]

Mr. Rogers is great.

[A]

It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood. All right, let's hear the aloe vera plant.

[B]

All right, one there, one here. Wow, juicy.

[A]

It's so trippy. Whoa, that's nice.

[B]

Soothing.

[A]

I feel like I'm astral projecting to, like, a beautiful forest in Japan, maybe. Bora Bora. Ooh, I miss Bora Bora. Ever been there?

[B]

I have not, no.

[A]

It's the bluest blues I've ever seen in my life. Very serene. It feels like paradise. Heaven on earth. Thanks for sharing a little slice of heaven on earth with us today.

[B]

Of course, yes. So cool. That's what it's about. It's about, you know, bringing that feeling of walking through the forest or bringing that feeling of being out in nature, into the home. Just through. Just connecting to a house plant, you kind of get that feeling. Just like it's a transmission.

[A]

I just. I don't want to lose you guys. I feel closer to my plants than. I feel like we're really, really bonding here. It's us. Us too.

[B]

Joe, have you. Have you interacted with. You want to, like, touch these two leaves together, like, with.

[A]

That was awesome. I'm having a kid feeling right now.

[B]

Wow,

[A]

that is so cool. Can you guys. Can you guys hear that at all?

[B]

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Big time. Yeah. Yes. Huge, Huge, huge.

[A]

Have you put together albums? Do you have a Spotify?

[B]

I do. I've done a couple albums. So I have a recording of the first ever plant installation I did from 2012.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then I released a cannabis music album in 2022. I mostly don't release albums because in a way, like, Plantwave itself is the alb. Yeah. I want people to have this experience in real life at home. And we have. This is one of the presets of sounds that you can use, but there's, like, about 40 different presets now, so each one is infinitely. You know, it's an infinite album. So instead of releasing albums, I release Plantwave, and people can have this experience just in perpetuity.

[A]

And it has a little headphone. It has a little headphone jack. Jack in there, too.

[B]

It's actually not a headphone jack.

[A]

Oh, it's not.

[B]

If you're, like, a midi person. If you're, like a producer. It's actually a midi jack. Yeah. So you don't want to stick headphones in there, but this pairs to our free app for iPhone and Android. And then you just. You just listen via headphones, or you can even record or send it to your friends. You can even broadcast or listen to other people's plants from around the world.

[A]

That is so cool. Should we try another one? Should we try the corn plan that.

[B]

Yeah, let's try the corn plant. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Easy.

[A]

Okay. Should we. Should we use these ones?

[B]

I'm gonna use. I'm gonna use the other ones. Yeah, yeah. Do you want to try, like, a different. I have a dip. I have different sound sets here.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So these are. These different. Yeah, there. These different ways of representing the data. So I have one. Yeah, this one. Fern moss.

[A]

Let's see.

[B]

I like this one.

[A]

Gonna move this?

[B]

Oh, sure.

[A]

Oh, let's see.

[B]

So this is the corn plant.

[A]

Yeah, that's the corn plant.

[B]

Okay, cool.

[A]

Is it okay if I just peel these off?

[B]

Yeah, Just be really gentle. Yeah. And peel them from that direction from the base. Okay. Yeah, it's kind of sticky. Yeah, that's okay. Yeah, that's okay. Yeah, it's. It's. It's a water soluble gel. Oh, okay. Here. We can stick them on the.

[A]

Very cool. Okay.

[B]

And then you can put the other one on the other side of that.

[A]

Oh, there we go. Okay.

[B]

All right. All right.

[A]

We're gonna listen to my corn plant now, you guys. Are you as riveted as I am?

[B]

Thank you for that.

[A]

Okay, here we. Go.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Without further ado, ladies and gentlemen, my corn plant.

[B]

I'll plug it into the plant wave.

[A]

I thought I was just being shy. A little stage fright from the corn plant. Needs a beta blocker. Whoa.

[B]

We got a one note Charlie in the mix.

[A]

Shy guy.

[B]

Yeah, this guy is made to play bass.

[A]

It's okay.

[B]

Usually he just plays like the kick drum in the high school band or something like that.

[A]

Corn plant gets stage fright.

[B]

See what we got here?

[A]

Anything? Ooh, there it is. I'm soaking it in.

[B]

That's so cool. Way less active. I mean, you can see this guy wants a little water, right?

[A]

Yeah, it's a little dry. Yeah, I watered them all this morning.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

We're happy. But it's been. Yeah.

[B]

I bet if you try this in like, five hours.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's gonna be a completely different scenario.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Should we try the orchid?

[B]

Yeah, let's try the orchid.

[A]

Let's try the orchid.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

This is probably one of the newer members of the family, you guys. Let's see the orchid. Aaron. My baby. Should we do. Should we do the actual flowers or

[B]

should we do just the.

[A]

The green part?

[B]

Just the green part.

[A]

We.

[B]

We like to let the flowers. Let the flowers be. They're. The flowers are so delicate. Yeah, that. Yeah. So I'm just gonna.

[A]

Did you kind of have like a eureka moment for this? For plant wave?

[B]

Oh, for sure. When I first. When I first connected sensors to a plant, I. And I hurt. I heard what it did. It was like my whole body lit up and I was so excited. And in that moment, the plant just completely changed the signal it was giving and just like, shot up in activity. And then that completely changed music. I looked at my engineer. I was like, whoa, dude. Did the plant just respond to me? And he looks at me, he's like, it's in the data. And it was just like a huge spike, like in that moment. And I was like, okay, this is cool. And it's basically the music I had Wanted to hear my whole life or make my whole life, and it was just happening then.

[A]

That's so cool.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, okay, we're gonna do. Yeah, I'm gonna do my orchid here, guys.

[B]

All right, so put one here.

[A]

Ready?

[B]

And then put one over here. A lot more going on that. Whoa.

[A]

Kind of Stranger Things esque, Cynthia.

[B]

Mm. This is just one stream of data from the plant controlling all those instruments.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

There's nothing. There are no loops. There's no samples or anything like that. It's actually just the wave from the plant being sent to multiple different instruments in real time.

[A]

It's dynamic. No looping.

[B]

No looping.

[A]

That's so cool.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. I'm a purist, Sometimes to a fault, because sometimes a plant, if it's. If it's not watered as well, right? Or it's not doing as well, it'll just play one note, this drone on

[A]

one note for one sad, monotonous note. Okay. Corn plant needs more water. Sorry. I'm sorry. I don't neglect my plants.

[B]

All right.

[A]

I feel like I've been under watering you, Mr. Corn Plant, and I've. I'm sorry.

[B]

Maybe it works like intermittent fasting, you know, like, you're just, like, getting the growth hormone going or something.

[A]

I feel like I owe you an apology, corn plant. I'll do better. You deserve better. You've always been good to me. You're hearty, and. Yeah. I love you, orchid. I love you too. You sound so sweet. This is your love language.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Should we try the ZZ Plant?

[B]

ZZ Plant.

[A]

Okay, cool. Thank you. Thank you for humoring us. This is so effing cool. Joe, make.

[B]

I should make a. I should make a sound set that sounds like ZZ Top. Yeah. For these, but I don't have one like that. Well, maybe I have something that's a little different. Let's see. I have many, many of these. Oh, I like this.

[A]

Here we go, guys. This is a ZZ Plant. I don't know. I don't know the scientific name, but these are really easy to take care of. They're hardy. They don't need a lot of tlc. So highly recommend this one for your first pet plant. Okay.

[B]

Sponsored by ZZ Plant. All right, so. Oh, these look like nice new, new leaves here. There should be a lot of action happening here.

[A]

One thing is very moving. It's almost. It's very spiritual. I feel very one with nature. Genuinely, as you're doing this, I honestly. We've never met before, but I feel like I don't know. This is a nice moment. Thank you, Joe.

[B]

Of course. My pleasure. I mean, connecting to the unknown, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, it's important for humans to experience wonder.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's like, when you expand your experience to be outside of what you're used to experiencing. Like, these are all things that are important for human brains and for feeling great.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, go have some experiences you never had.

[A]

That's the whole reason I started this podcast, Detox Retox. It's just to sort of nourish the mind, body, soul. But also on. On the show, we don't feel bad about feeling good.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We rock and roll once in a while.

[B]

No apologies.

[A]

But this is a Detox week.

[B]

Yeah, totally.

[A]

We're relaxing. Unless you want a beer.

[B]

I'm good, but I appreciate it. I had a beer last night. Okay, cool. It's like my. I had my one beer with my amazing Banh Mi.

[A]

Okay, let's see. Let's see how Mr. Z, Mrs. Plant.

[B]

Mrs. ZZ, the new album.

[A]

Yeah. Here we go.

[B]

Very active, very melodic.

[A]

Beautiful.

[B]

You throw a beat to this?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Maybe for the intro.

[A]

It's very. I feel hypnotized. How would you describe the sound?

[B]

It's staccato.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. So. And that's a function of the specific instruments we're using to listen to this. This plant. But it's. It's a little bit more staccato and it's. It's. It's melodic, staccato. It's very active. Active. I mean, you know, some of the plants would have played this sound set as just like a single note, and it wouldn't be weaving and having all this expression.

[A]

Yeah. It has layers. It's got soul.

[B]

Yeah, for sure.

[A]

I feel like I'm floating kind of.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. And you know, it's just like another thing about this. Like, we're having a. This isn't pre recorded. This isn't like we're listening to an album that was somebody else's experience at some other time. We're listening to this right now. We're having this experience. We're like, up in here, right? Just like looking at these plants breathing

[A]

in the fighting sides. Although they're not threatened right now. So.

[B]

Yeah, we're not gonna break any leaves today.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But, yeah, you know, you're just kind of in here. This is a world, right? Like, imagine yourself as like a small pollinator or something. And like, what's. What's this world like right now? You know, this is the. This is the Invitation of this experience. You just all of a sudden, this is a world. This is like being in a fort or something as a kid. Right? You're just hanging out with a. Your houseplant all of a sudden becomes this, like, imaginary world and fort that you're living in.

[A]

That is so beautifully stated. Yeah, man. That's like a. I feel nostalgic listening to the ZZ plant.

[B]

What memories does it bring back for you?

[A]

Just, like, vague memories of my childhood where days seem like they would last forever. One day felt like what a year feels like now as I'm in my 40s. Everything was just a little slower, a little more colorful. It reminds me of being a kid in the 90s.

[B]

Yeah. Dude, what just happened to the plan? It was like. It was like holding space for your moment, man. I mean, maybe, you know, but like, that just happened.

[A]

That was.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

We are vibing.

[B]

There's vibes.

[A]

Are we riffing right now?

[B]

This is happening.

[A]

We're jazzing. This is cool. It's because I love. I love that. That we're sharing this with, like, we're. This has never before heard music.

[B]

Yeah. It's always new.

[A]

This is new. This has never been heard before.

[B]

But wait, have you ever heard this? No, probably not.

[A]

But wait, have you ever heard this?

[B]

Just heard that for the first time.

[A]

I heard it too. That's so cool. I don't want to be self indulgent, but I could just drift off right now into the most pleasant daydream. But I won't do that because we're making a show. Wait, why can we.

[B]

Dude, this, like, vibes with your voice so hard, it, like, stops every time you speak. And then I'm like, hey, man. And then it starts again.

[A]

So we're having a conversation.

[B]

That is ridiculous. I'm like, that is ridiculous. ZZ plan is so polite that it's, like, pretty consistent. I've not experienced that. Like, that.

[A]

Well, zz, I just wanted to take a moment to say I appreciate you. You bring me a lot of joy and peace and serenity, and I'm just happy that you're in my. Yeah.

[B]

Received.

[A]

Received.

[B]

Like, hello. Yeah, you're going. You're. He's like, yes. This is so crazy, man. This is awesome. So what's your deal? Like, what do you do in terms of your energetic practices that are getting you tuned in and tapped. Tapped into the universal energy of the cosmos?

[A]

Well, I. I. Well, I work out every morning. That's like my meditation. It's my therapy. Yeah, it's it's nice to accompany therapy. I don't go to therapy on a regular basis, but like, I also do meditation and that's honestly pretty much it. I. I listen to a lot of music, watch a lot of film and. Yeah, I don't know, I just try to be more mindful and less neurotic lately especially. I think he knows last few years have been very strange and wonderful and I'm a better person because of them. But yeah, I couldn't have done it without you guys. My plants, who I love very much. Yeah.

[B]

What got you into having houseplants?

[A]

I just, they, I. I find them very therapeutic. That sounds kind of vague and stalk, but I just feel more calm when they're around and I feel like the air is extra purified. Rarefied. Yeah. We have a good symbiotic relationship. Right, guys, Girls? Seems like it's happening to plants. Just based on your experiences and everything you've learned. Do you think plants are conscious?

[B]

Well, yeah. So it's a great question. And it comes down to like, what is consciousness? Right.

[A]

We still don't even know.

[B]

Yeah. I think that a lot of times people's ideas of what consciousness is are maybe human centric and maybe they're like very much based around the brain. And people think that consciousness almost exists at the level of the brain. And I feel like consciousness is more all pervasive. Right. So consciousness could be just the field of energy that is expressing itself as matter in all these different forms. Like there's could be this implicate order, this, this almost like a wireframe under the data that controls the wireframe under this, all of this physical reality. So in that sense, I almost take a position that consciousness is all pervasive. It's everywhere. And then we're all just nodes for that.

[A]

Antennas, essentially.

[B]

Yeah, we're like. Yeah, we're antennae for energy, but we're also nodes of expression of consciousness. And so each, each plant is an expression of consciousness in the form of a plant which has its own set of limited filters for how it can express itself and for how it can take in and process information. Right. And so it can take in a certain kind of information, process information in a certain kind of way. And that results in a certain expression, like growing a leaf. And a human can take an information in another way and express itself as something else, like maybe writing a song. So it's. I just, I just think that every being is intelligent to the extent that it needs to be for its own survival and thrival and that's about it. So they're. They're conscious, but they're like, in their own. In their own way. Not. Not in a human consciousness way, but kind of like, for lack of a better term, kind of in their own dimension.

[A]

Mmm, I like that. Yeah, it's a beautiful thought. And again, just a nice reminder just to slow down a little bit and appreciate the natural world around us, especially in an ever increasing digital age. My average screen time is eight hours, man, eight hours a day. I'm not proud of that. And I feel like I'm not really on my phone that much, but the stats don't lie.

[B]

Yeah, I know, right?

[A]

And it's like, I feel like it's having a negative impact on my posture, but I've been more mindful

[B]

what's going on in, like, a place that is, like, completely all the way on the other side of the world that I have. I can't. I have no agency in. And then it's like, hey, what's happening here? How are you? Hey. Hi. We're here. Yeah, good to see you.

[A]

You don't have to be aware of everything all at once. It's just like, you go online, it's so easy just to doom. Scroll into oblivion. But, yeah, you guys, this is your gentle reminder just to chill out, listen to your plants. Joe, this has been awesome. Maybe can we listen to one more? Can we listen to my pothos? Johanna, can we listen to my pothos? I'm gonna grab it.

[B]

Yes, let's do it.

[A]

Then we can wrap it up. This has been awesome.

[B]

Yes. Honestly, thanks for having me here, man. And like, yeah, love that you have so many plants. And, like. Yeah, this is great. I mean, just chilling.

[A]

Thank you, Johanna. You guys just feel like we're doing a studio session.

[B]

I've never got that.

[A]

I've always been envious of musicians. I'm not a musician. I'm not musically inclined. So this is as close as I'm ever gonna get to having, like, a studio session with you, Joe.

[B]

Yeah, man, this is groovy. This is what's up. This is what's happening, you guys.

[A]

This is my pothos. Also pretty easy to take care of. One of my favorite plants. I got a couple of these upstairs, too. Okay.

[B]

You can put it on, like. You can rest it on my. Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah, you can rest it on my leg. Yeah, that's cool.

[A]

You're bonding.

[B]

Yeah. All right, so we're gonna connect that one there. Oh, we got a new leaf here. Yeah, a newer leaf. I Think, think. Let's check it out.

[A]

You guys still with us? Can you dig it? Oh.

[B]

So this one has a few different instruments. There's a. This kind of pulsing keyboard thing that can happen, and then there's vocals and the synthesizer that can happen. And it's all based on how active the plant is. And so you'll either hear the this or you'll hear, like, the vocals with the synthesizer, just depending on how active it is. So now it's in, like, a lower to medium activity level, and now it's in a higher activity level.

[A]

Is. Is the plant wave. Is it recording the music?

[B]

Yeah, I'm actually recording it in the app. Oh, in the app.

[A]

Thank you. So you guys are going to be. This is so cool. Yeah, I just like the way it gently kind of washes over you, I guess it kind of feels exactly how I thought my pothos would sound. I don't know.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, that's. I mean, this. I designed all the sounds in the app kind of for the. For the feeling I get from the different. Different plants. And so as we're just checking out all these different plants, I'm kind of just selecting different sound sets based on that feeling. And, you know, we have, like, 40 sound sets, so people that have plant waves, they can just select whatever sounds that they want and kind of vibe with it in that way. They all have kind of, like different use cases, too. Some for meditation, some for just having on while you're working.

[A]

It feels. Yeah, I like that. Very meditative, very calming, very chill. Joe, this has been awesome. Johanna, thank you. Thank you for taking time out of your day.

[B]

My pleasure.

[A]

This is so effing cool, you guys. Plant, where can we find you?

[B]

Joe, you find [e-mail]. find, you know, Plantwave on all the socials. Antwave.

[A]

Cool.

[B]

You can find me at Nature of Now. That's my. That's my Instagram Nature of Now. So you can find me there, too.

[A]

Nature of now, very groovy. This has been awesome. Informative and transformative. And, man, I. This is cool. I feel closer. I feel like I'm in, like, couples therapy with my plants. We're bonding and I hear you guys. I see you guys. Thank you for being such a great part of my life. We forgot about you, Mr. Paradise, but, yeah, thank you. Thank you so much. This is awesome.

[B]

Yeah, my pleasure. Thanks. So, you guys.

[A]

Thank you. Okay, go check out plantwave. Get one and just groove out. Show yourself a little love. Hug that tree. Smell that rose. Touch that grass.

[B]

What else breathe.

[A]

Don't forget to breathe.

[B]

And listen. Like, for me, like, plants are here to teach us to listen. That's what. That's what this is about. So just allowing yourself to be and receive in this experience of plants.

[A]

Yeah, I like that. I think that's a beautiful way to. To end. On that note, thank you.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Thank you so much, you guys. Thank you.

[B]

All right, peace. Yeah. Detoxification complete.

[A]

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