Sip, Spill, Solve: with Madison McGhee

Summary

Detox Retox with Tom Schwartz

Episode: Sip, Spill, Solve: with Madison McGhee
Date: February 25, 2026
Podcast Network: PodcastOne

---

Episode Overview

This episode of Detox Retox centers around finding harmony and mindfulness in everyday indulgences, featuring a rich conversation between host Tom Schwartz and guest Madison McGhee. Madison is a writer, director, producer, and podcaster best known for her shows Ice Cold Case and Frozen Files, which tackle true crime stories, including personal tragedies. The episode unfolds over drinks at a kava bar in Santa Monica, as Tom and Madison explore the effects of kava, the complexities of true crime fascination, dealing with online criticism, behind-the-scenes of reality TV, and Madison’s advocacy in unsolved cases.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Kava 101—Mindful Detox Begins

Timestamps: 00:59–06:12

• Setting: Tom and Madison meet at Cavana, a kava bar in Santa Monica, and both try kava for the first time.
  • Kava explained: A traditional South Pacific root beverage with calming, mild euphoria-inducing effects (00:59–01:54).
  • Reverse tolerance: You need more kava your first time for noticeable effects; over time, less works (04:48–05:05).
  • First taste: "Oh, that's good." —Madison (06:01)
  • First impressions: Both quickly become fans and joke about becoming regulars.

Meet Madison McGhee—True Crime is Personal

Timestamps: 06:40–08:48

• Background: Madison, acclaimed for her podcasts Ice Cold Case and Frozen Files, started investigating her own father’s 2002 unsolved murder.
  • "It was just sitting in a case file, and then I started looking into it, so now it's, you know, getting some traction and movement. But it is still currently unsolved." —Madison (07:47)
• Tom highlights Madison’s role as both a creator and personal advocate for victims' families.

Why Are We Obsessed With True Crime?

Timestamps: 08:49–13:44

• Psychology of fascination: Tom and Madison dissect why true crime is both entertainment and education.
  • Simulation & escapism: "Some women will argue, 'Oh, I want to be prepared if something happens.'...But I really think...you've disassociated from the true part of true crime enough that it almost feels like a drama." —Madison (08:52–09:23)
  • Validation & comfort: "It's also comforting because...I've been there too, I don't feel so alone after...a divorce or...God forbid, a miscarriage...other people have gone through this too." —Tom (10:39)
• Discuss morbid curiosity and parallels with scary movies and reality TV.

Reality TV, Vanderpump Rules, and the "New Cast"

Timestamps: 14:06–21:24

• Madison and Tom swap favorite reality TV shows, observations on new cast members, and the emotional effect of seeing relationships unravel on screen.
  • Madison: “[Natalie’s] a great main character, and I like her because I can't tell if she's the Stassi or the Sheena...she's kind of both.” (15:14)
• Behind-the-scenes: Madison shares her entry into the Vanderpump sphere via chance meetings, making the show personally compelling.
  • "So I started watching from season one, and I made it through, like, seven seasons in, like, three weeks. I was like, this show is crazy. These people are insane." —Madison (19:57)

Parasocial Relationships & the Loss of Escapism

Timestamps: 20:38–21:31

• The fun of voyeurism fades when you befriend reality stars; watching becomes complicated and less escapist.
  • "It ruins the lore." —Madison (20:50)
  • "There's no escapism. I feel like a peeping Tom." —Tom (20:53)

Sheena Shea, Online Persona vs Reality, and Handling Criticism

Timestamps: 21:32–26:06

• Tom and Madison praise Sheena Shea’s real-life likability versus her polarizing online reputation.
• Online critics and trolling:
  • "It's so easy to see 100 amazing comments and then get that one and go, oh, I'm gonna think about this all day long." —Madison (22:57)
  • Madison shares how a harsh message inspired her to make a T-shirt and song, turning hate into creativity (24:18).
  • "This is a great metaphor and a reminder to never let the trolls win." —Tom (24:10)
• The "We not I" rhetoric in comment threads: "I'm always confused as to how, when, and why they anointed themselves to speak for the people." —Tom (25:07)

Frozen Files, True Crime Advocacy, and the Ethics of Storytelling

Timestamps: 26:48–37:32

• Madison explains the transition from Ice Cold Case to Frozen Files, amplifying lesser-known cases without sensationalism.
  • "There are so many other cases that deserve and need that kind of attention, and they're not getting it." —Madison (28:20)
• Collaboration with victims’ families:
  • "All of them have been in collaboration with the family...they read the script before I record. Like, they are fully involved." —Madison (29:41)
• Memorable quote from the show, read by Tom:
  • "One thing that stands out to me about this night is how unremarkable it was. No conflict, no tension, no warning signs. In investigations that kind of normality isn't inconsequential. It's evidence." —Madison (31:12)

The Randomness and Frustration of Unsolved Crimes

Timestamps: 31:41–36:29

• Random violence is especially terrifying; no preparation can thwart it.
• The emotional toll of police indifference:
  • "You can tell that this person's just like, clocking in for work...You can't even really describe how frustrating that can feel." —Madison (34:41)
  • Media attention as a modern tool to solve cases.

Madison’s Process and the Cold Case Backlog

Timestamps: 37:47–39:19

• Madison works with advocate Haley Gray, using pre-existing research and family submissions for choosing cases.
  • "My list...right now...is around 150." —Madison (39:05)
  • Over 250,000 cold cases in America; a daunting but critical mission.

Favorite True Crime Shows and Paranormal TV

Timestamps: 39:41–42:23

• Madison credits America's Most Wanted (childhood staple), loves Dateline, and the social experiment show What Would You Do?
• Tom shouts out Unsolved Mysteries and their shared curiosity about the supernatural.
• Alien banter: Both confidently believe extraterrestrials exist.

Life Update, Joshua Tree Retreat, and Plant Parenting

Timestamps: 43:08–46:38

• Madison plugs her newly renovated Joshua Tree Airbnb: two-bedroom, one-bath on five acres, full of amenities (43:26).
• Discussion of the eerie, isolating, and potentially haunted desert vibe.
  • "Probably [someone's been murdered there]...Joshua Tree is so scary...you don’t know what’s happened here...it's kind of fun." —Madison (43:55)
• Tom and Madison compare notes on plant parenting and pets.

Schwartz & Sandy’s, Friendships, and Community

Timestamps: 46:39–48:11

• Reminiscence and memorializing Schwartz & Sandy’s as more than just a bar.
  • "How beautiful it is to try something...risk everything...just go for it." —Tom (48:12)
  • The highs and lows of entrepreneurial life in LA’s volatile hospitality scene.

The Rise of Sober Socializing and LA Nightlife

Timestamps: 48:12–49:48

• Madison and Tom discuss how the rise in sobriety (Madison: “I haven't had alcohol in over a year.”) is impacting nightlife and business.
• The challenge of running restaurants and bars post-pandemic as social behavior changes.

Final Reflections: Kava Effects, Mindfulness, and Floating

Timestamps: 50:02–51:38

• The hosts share their physical and emotional response to kava:
  • “I feel a little similar to that [microdosing ketamine] now...I feel floaty.” —Madison (51:24–51:28)
  • “I feel like I could drive home. Totally. Yeah.” —Tom (51:36–51:38)
• Both endorse kava as a pleasant, mild, mindful alternative.

Madison’s Plugs and Where to Find Her

Timestamps: 51:45–52:29

• “Oh, I’m Madison McGhee on everything. Ice Cold Case, Frozen Files, wherever you get your podcasts.” —Madison (51:45)
• Spelling her name for listeners: “M C G H E E.” (52:29)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “We’re keeping it together so we can fall apart responsibly, mindfully, not toxically.” —Tom Schwartz (00:59)
• “That’s such a good [lesson]...if someone says something to you that ruins 10 seconds of your day, are you going to throw away the rest of your day? I will never do that again.” —Madison (23:36)
• “All of them [Frozen Files cases] have been in collaboration with the family...I don’t want to sensationalize the murder or disappearance of your loved one.” —Madison (29:41)
• “One thing that stands out to me about this night is how unremarkable it was. No conflict, no tension, no warning signs. In investigations that kind of normality isn't inconsequential. It's evidence.” —Madison (31:12)

---

Important Timestamps

• 00:59–06:12: Kava 101 and first sips
• 06:40–08:48: Madison’s true crime background; her father’s case
• 08:49–13:44: Why we love true crime and the psychology behind it
• 14:06–21:24: Reality TV deep dive
• 26:48–37:32: Ethics of true crime storytelling, advocacy, and Frozen Files
• 39:41–42:23: Favorite crime shows and supernatural banter
• 43:26: Madison’s Joshua Tree Airbnb plug
• 50:02–51:38: Kava aftereffects and self-assessment
• 51:45–52:29: Madison’s socials and projects

---

Closing Note

This rich, free-flowing conversation blends self-care, pop culture, digital life, and advocacy. Tom and Madison’s camaraderie delivers entertainment and depth, perfect for fans of mindfulness, true crime, and reality TV. They leave listeners with a mellow vibe, a thirst for kava, and a sense that mindful indulgence is, after all, part of the balance.

---

Find Madison:

• Instagram: @madison_mcgee
• Podcasts: Ice Cold Case and Frozen Files (available on all platforms)

Transcript

[KFC Narrator]

A KFC tale in the pursuit of flavor. The greatest insult the Colonel ever suffered was being served a wrap that was just a snack by a friend. So he took two crispy tenders, lettuce, tomatoes, and pepper mayo and wrapped them in a soft tortilla. It wasn't a snack, it was a meal. He called it a twister and never called that friend again. The Colonel lived so we could chicken the Twister. Now back at kfc. Classic or with bacon. Also try it spicy. It's finger licking good.

[Tom Schwartz]

Prices and participation may vary.

[Madison McGee]

Support is available 24. 7 with VRBoCare. We're here day or night, ready whenever you need help. Because a great trip starts with the right support. It's now time for your weekly detox with Tom Schwartz.

[Podcast Host]

Guys, what is up? Welcome to another episode Detox Retox. We're keeping it together so we can fall apart responsibly, mindfully, not toxically. How are you guys? Today's episode, Madison McGee. She's my friend, writer, director, producer, podcaster. She hosts Ice Cold Case and Frozen Files. And she's an awesome human being. She's got some great stories and we're gonna set some kava. You guys ever had kava? What you know about kava? Well, let's do a little Kava 101. Kava. Kava is a traditional beverage made from the root of the Piper methysticum plant native to South Pacific. It's a shrub. It has a sedative, anxiolytic, which is just like a fancy word for anti anxiety and muscle relaxing effects due to compounds called kavalactones. Yummy. Give me some cavalactones. So people dig kava because it provides a sense of relaxation, stress relief, a mild sense of euphoria. Yeah, let's get euphoric. It's often used as a social drink, kind of similar to alcohol, but, you know, without the hangovers, we're strong intoxication, so you probably won't end up rage texting your ex with tears running down your face in the back alley at sir. But also, I've never tried it, so I can't promise that. So, yeah, it's praised for some of its potential therapeutic benefits too, for anxiety, sleep disorders. But like with everything, moderation. Ideally, you want a single source root powder or extract that hasn't been steeped in grain alcohol, like a lot of tinctures you'll find grocery stores. But yeah, it chills you out. Moderation is key. Popular alternative for the sober minder. To sober curious. I'm Gonna stop rambling here. Let's get into it. Let's drink some kava with Madison McGee. Also, reminder here, guys. I'm not an expert. I'm learning here with you. I'm not your guru. We're all in this together. Consult a physician for taking a psychoactive substance, no matter how mild. So, yeah, although we may be catching the most mellow buzz today in this episode with Madison, I'm still considering it a detoxification session or a mindful retox. Whatever you guys. Think again. Okay, without further ado, kava with Madison. And also, also, if you know, you could use little help. So your first last month's rent or maybe alleviate a little financial stress to float you a couple months. Stay tuned. I'm going to tell you about RNPL Rent now, pay later. Okay, I'll stop yapping. Let's get into it with Madison.

[Tom Schwartz]

Wait. Oh, my God. Madison McGee. We're rolling.

[Madison McGee]

We're rolling.

[Tom Schwartz]

Wait, do you want to tell everyone where we are and what we're doing?

[Madison McGee]

Where are we?

[Tom Schwartz]

We're. We're at Cavana, which is a cava bar.

[Madison McGee]

Okay.

[Tom Schwartz]

In Santa Monica.

[Madison McGee]

We're at Cavana, everyone.

[Tom Schwartz]

We've. Neither of us have ever formally tried cava before. We're about to dive into the cava verse.

[Madison McGee]

Yeah.

[Tom Schwartz]

And we're about to get lit. But mindfully, mindfully, this is the detox episode.

[Madison McGee]

Oh, I was going to say which one is this? But it's fun that it could be kind of either.

[Tom Schwartz]

Listen, I mean, we'll see where it goes. We're going to sip, but we're not going to get lost in the sauce.

[Madison McGee]

Well, we got three shots.

[Podcast Host]

Should we.

[Tom Schwartz]

Should we do it right now? Because, well, the guy was telling us it has. You have a reverse tolerance for it, essentially meaning that you have to drink more for the first time until your body acclimates.

[Madison McGee]

Yeah.

[Tom Schwartz]

And then after that, you can have one shot and you'll feel the. The euphoric pleasant effects.

[Madison McGee]

So we have three.

[Tom Schwartz]

Should we. Should we. Should I read you what it says on the website?

[Madison McGee]

Yeah.

[Tom Schwartz]

Do you know what cava is?

[Madison McGee]

No, I. I'm coming in blind.

[Tom Schwartz]

Well, I kind of know what it is, but I'm just going to read from the website to show love to Cavana, Santa Monica. Okay. The cava beverage is made from the root of the cava plant, which is native to the Pacific Islands. The word cava refers to the plant itself, its roots, and the drink it's made from. Nachava. Tastes fresh, earthy, slightly peppery. From the peppercorn family, like he said.

[Madison McGee]

Yeah, our tongue is going to tingle. He said.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yes, it's from a. Yes, the tongue tingle. It's from a root plant. And, yeah, that tingly sensation is due to kavalactones and kava, which they support being chill, relaxation, mood, elevation, euphoria. So it's like a little conscious. A conscious detox.

[Madison McGee]

I need all of that.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yes.

[Madison McGee]

We're done.

[Tom Schwartz]

Let's take a sip.

[Madison McGee]

Okay.

[Tom Schwartz]

Okay, guys, join us on our first sip. Cheers, Madison.

[Madison McGee]

Oh, that's good.

[Tom Schwartz]

It's really good. Well, I love cava bars.

[Madison McGee]

Wait, I like this.

[Tom Schwartz]

You just made a fan for life. It's so good.

[Madison McGee]

Liv. Tingly is what the back of his shirt says.

[Tom Schwartz]

Does it? You guys, wait. Cava is delicious.

[Madison McGee]

Dude, I like that. I might go to the west side again for this.

[Tom Schwartz]

Oh, my God. Wait, you want to try mine?

[Madison McGee]

Yeah, yeah. Here.

[Tom Schwartz]

How are you, by the way? Thank you for coming to the west side.

[Madison McGee]

Yeah, of course.

[Tom Schwartz]

From Franklin Village, Rip Schwartz and Sandies.

[Madison McGee]

Rip. This one goes out to Shorts and Sandies.

[Tom Schwartz]

Cheers. We can do a little where we met. We can do memorial later. We really can. How are you?

[Madison McGee]

I'm good, I'm good. I'm busy and a little stressed.

[Tom Schwartz]

Do you want me to hype you up for a second?

[Madison McGee]

Yeah.

[Tom Schwartz]

Okay. Madison McGee, if you don't know, producer, writer, podcaster, beautiful human being, lover of Joshua Tree, now lover of Cava.

[Madison McGee]

Yes.

[Tom Schwartz]

And my friend Joseph, Ice Cold Case, now. The Frozen Files. Right?

[Madison McGee]

Yeah.

[Tom Schwartz]

You're doing the damn thing. She's an OG podcaster. Killing the game. She's my mentor and life coach. What else? What else?

[Madison McGee]

I think you nailed it.

[Tom Schwartz]

That was a pretty strong introduction.

[Madison McGee]

Really good.

[Tom Schwartz]

So she made waves in the podcast world, but.

[Madison McGee]

Yes.

[Tom Schwartz]

With your show, Ice Cold case, investigating the 2002 murder of your father, John Cornelius McGee. Rest in peace, by the way.

[Madison McGee]

Thank you.

[Tom Schwartz]

We don't have to go into it, cuz I don't want to spoil it for people, but we can as is. I don't know if this is a spoiler. As of now, it remains unsolved. It's an open case.

[Madison McGee]

It's an open case. Open investigation. Out of Ohio.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yes.

[Madison McGee]

And, yeah, it's.

[Podcast Host]

It's.

[Madison McGee]

I mean, it was just sitting in a case file, and then I started looking into it, so now it's, you know, getting some traction and movement. But it is still currently unsolved.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah. So this, like, true crime hits close to home for you. Yes.

[Madison McGee]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yes, I understand. Because I just Listened to your most recent episode, but we could talk about a little bit. I, I now I understand your advocacy, not just because you're a great person, but it's very near and dear to your heart.

[Madison McGee]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Tom Schwartz]

So it's cool to have you here with me.

[Madison McGee]

This is fun. I'm glad we're doing.

[Tom Schwartz]

I know. So wait. Okay.

[Podcast Host]

I have to.

[Tom Schwartz]

I'm fascinated with people's fascination with true crime. Yes, I'm sure you've been. And by the way, I know this is your real life, the Cold Case File with the murder of your father. And it's very real. Rest in peace. Again. But like, how, how do you explain people's fascination, obsession with true crime? Like, I like to fall asleep to Cold Case. I fell asleep to Cold Case Files last night. Yeah, I, I really did. Maybe it's the pacing, the narrator, but essentially, I'm falling asleep to murder stories.

[Madison McGee]

Yeah.

[Tom Schwartz]

How, how do we explain this? The psychology, Madison, tell us.

[Madison McGee]

You know, I wish I studied psychology in college, and I had no idea, you know, what I would end up doing in my life. But there is a weird fascination with crime, and I think part of it is some women will argue, oh, I want to be prepared if something happens.

[Podcast Host]

Yes.

[Tom Schwartz]

Like simulation for worst case scenarios.

[Madison McGee]

Yes. But I really think what it is, is like it all kind of goes back to this weird crossover of people who like true crime also like reality tv.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yes.

[Madison McGee]

And it's almost like you've disassociated from the true part of true crime enough that it almost feels like a drama. You're hearing some sort of drama story. And you know, the same girls that are, like, running background checks on their friends, boyfriends are the people who like true crime. So it almost feels like it's not real. And that's maybe why you're so obsessed with it, because it's like, well, this would never happen to me, or this couldn't happen to me. This wouldn't be my friend group. This wouldn't be my life. Meanwhile, it absolutely could. And it's more likely going to be than not going to be because of statistics. And so it's just a really. I think we're all just so fascinated.

[Tom Schwartz]

I'm getting the tongue.

[Madison McGee]

Me too.

[Tom Schwartz]

The tongue tingle. But it's like you, it's like a simulation trial from the safety, the comfort of your own bed, your own room.

[Madison McGee]

Yeah.

[Tom Schwartz]

You know what I mean?

[Madison McGee]

You know, you're safe, but you're listening to these, like, crazy stories. And, and I think that's why a lot of people, you know, navigate towards the, you know, the missing white women syndrome is because they put themselves in those stories. Because it's like, oh, that looks like me. That is me. That's closer to my life, but it's not my life and I'm just watching it or I'm listening to it in my car or whatever.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah. And, and I totally get it. I'm on board with it. I love reality TV and true crime. Not in a fetishized way.

[Madison McGee]

Right.

[Tom Schwartz]

But I, it's like, it's, it's, it's entertaining, but it's also educational. It's informative. You can watch and learn from others. Mistakes, betrayals, red flags, how dumb you look when you get sloppy drunk. But it's also comforting because then you're like, you know, I've been there too. I don't feel so alone after, like, a divorce or like, God forbid, a miscarriage or it's like high stakes moments. It's nice to feel like, oh, my God, other people have gone through this too. It can be comforting.

[Madison McGee]

Totally. I mean, that's how I feel about a lot of reality tv. For me, someone was asking me why I'm so into reality tv, and I'm like, it's almost like escapism, because it does feel like not real life in a way where it's like, it's so absurd and so wild that I'm like, oh, it's like, not real. But it is. But it's not my life. It's not real in my life. Like, I'm not doing any of these things. So it just feels kind of like escapism in that way. And I think true crime can be similar.

[Tom Schwartz]

Totally escapism.

[Madison McGee]

But it's your real life and I know you, so that is kind of weird.

[Tom Schwartz]

Listen, let's not turn this into a therapy session. But like, also from my friends tell me, like, when they watch it, it's also, it's nice to have your intuition and your suspicions validated.

[Madison McGee]

Yeah.

[Tom Schwartz]

About someone. Or like when you're listening to one of your podcasts, one of your episodes, or watching Vanderpump Rules. Like, I knew it. I knew it all along.

[Madison McGee]

Yes.

[Tom Schwartz]

It sort of reaffirms your, your instincts. Right?

[Madison McGee]

Yeah.

[Tom Schwartz]

And I think, yeah. So I, I, There are a lot of parallels. And it's like, yep, there is a voyeuristic aspect to it, or like a morbid curiosity. Like, almost everyone I know has seen two girls, One cup. They know it's going to be disgusting, but there's almost Like a camaraderie, a morbid curiosity, like, I got to see it. And you're like, oh, God, why did I watch that?

[Madison McGee]

Totally.

[Tom Schwartz]

Maybe. So maybe I lost the plot there.

[Madison McGee]

No, no.

[Tom Schwartz]

And I just.

[Madison McGee]

It's the same as, like, scary movies where it's like, you know. You know you're gonna be scared, but you watch it anyways. And it's just like, you wanna. You know, you're gonna have that feeling, but you wanna know you're gonna have that feeling. I equate it to. This is gonna sound crazy. I always say to people, I would like to go to space. I really want to go to space, because I believe that the earth is round. But I want to know that the earth is round. I've never seen it, and I'm not a Flat Earther. I know the earth is round, I think, but I want to know because I've seen it with my own eyes.

[Podcast Host]

Yes.

[Madison McGee]

And I feel like it's. Am I.

[Tom Schwartz]

No. You make so much sense. I love that you're not planting seeds of doubt about being a flat Earther, but you just want to see it and explain, experience it with your own eyes as opposed through the television.

[Madison McGee]

Right. I'm like, I want to know because I've seen it and I've experienced it, not because someone has told me. And I believe them, and I believe all these people. Yeah.

[Tom Schwartz]

No, I'm right there with you. And, like, listen, there is, like you were saying before, there's like. Like an emotional fear response or like the adrenaline thing. It's like kind of being on a roller coaster.

[Madison McGee]

Yeah.

[Tom Schwartz]

You're fearing for your life and you're. Get off. You're like, oh, my God, I survived. I kind of want more. Yeah, right.

[Madison McGee]

How close can you get?

[Tom Schwartz]

How close can you get? It also, like, real life, it's. It's chaotic and all over the place. It's not linear. And you don't get the structure of, like, okay, the scandal or the murder and then the investigation and then hopefully the resolution. Or in our case, the reunion, where there is no resolution. Yeah. Rarely, at least.

[Madison McGee]

Wow. A Vanderpump Rules reunion is like a cold case.

[Tom Schwartz]

Well, we don't have to. Yeah, we've had a few. Let's just say. Yeah, we've had a few scandals that those were resolved. Those cases are closed. Thank God. Thank God those cases are closed. What's your favorite show right now? What are you watching?

[Madison McGee]

So I am watching Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, which I love. I'm really liking it. I Think the new additions have been interesting. I am watching the new Vanderpump Rules.

[Tom Schwartz]

We talked about it before we got our triple shot and our tongues were tingling.

[Madison McGee]

Yeah.

[Tom Schwartz]

You're digging it.

[Madison McGee]

It's okay. I like it. It's okay.

[Tom Schwartz]

Who's your favorite cast member? I interviewed Venus in the back alley at Sir.

[Madison McGee]

Oh, Venus is fun.

[Tom Schwartz]

He's kind of this larger than life. I don't think he's cocky. He's just very confident. He's manifesting.

[Podcast Host]

He.

[Tom Schwartz]

You know what he wants. But I think he can be perceived as being a little over, like, not cocky, but extra to it.

[Madison McGee]

I like Venus. I like Natalie.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yes.

[Madison McGee]

I think she's a great main character, and I like her because I can't tell if she's the Stassi or the Sheena. Like, you can't tell which one she is. And I like that they didn't, like, replace the whole cast with, like, replicas. She's kind of a both.

[Tom Schwartz]

Beautifully stated. I'm only on episode three. Spoiler alert. Apparently, there's incest coming. I don't know anything about this.

[Madison McGee]

I mean, it's. The definition of incest is tbd, but we use that.

[Tom Schwartz]

I think it's a sensationalized version of that.

[Madison McGee]

Yes.

[Tom Schwartz]

But I'm digging it. I really like them. I hung out with them at Sir.

[Madison McGee]

Oh, nice.

[Tom Schwartz]

They were all so sweet. We were chatting before. Before we started sipping on our cava.

[Madison McGee]

I mean, you can relate to them. Like, it's probably nerve wracking to be on, like, you know, it's their first season. A lot of them have never done reality TV before. That's gotta be. I have empathy for that. You know, I watch these shows and I'm just judgmental from my couch because that's fun. But it's. I'm sure it's terrifying to be putting your life out there in that way,

[Tom Schwartz]

especially coming into a show that was kind of a sense. It was a sensation. Yeah. It was a pop culture sensation conversation, which it feels weird to say that, being on it.

[Madison McGee]

No, it's true.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah. But it's like, I like one of the last things I said when I interviewed, I was like, you guys, just give it a chance. Don't let comparison be the thief of joy.

[Madison McGee]

Yeah.

[Tom Schwartz]

We don't have to campaign for the new Vanderpump right now. I like it.

[Madison McGee]

I feel like I'm watching. Oh, I'm watching. You'll love this. Or hate it. I am watching Summer House.

[Tom Schwartz]

I love Summer House.

[Madison McGee]

I know, but you know.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah.

[Madison McGee]

There's a lot going on over there.

[Tom Schwartz]

There's a lot going on.

[Madison McGee]

Going on in the Hamptons.

[Tom Schwartz]

Really sad about Kyle and Amanda, but it's probably the right decision. But it still hurts like hell even though when you know it's the right decision.

[Madison McGee]

Yeah. So I'm watching that. I was curious not to get into it too deeply, but I. I'm watching and I'm like, I wonder, like, if this is bringing up a lot of feelings for you, watching what's going on.

[Tom Schwartz]

I'm pretty.

[Madison McGee]

It's not a one to one, but

[Tom Schwartz]

I think that's resolved. I'm in such a good place, and me and Katie are good friends. But, yes, it's stirring up some familiar, familiar feelings. Watching them navigate it online.

[Madison McGee]

Yeah.

[Tom Schwartz]

Through all of the criticism and hate and, like, just seeing their. The love. 10 years of their. Their life just kind of reduced to. I knew I was right.

[Madison McGee]

Yeah.

[Tom Schwartz]

But I told you so. Oh, I know.

[Madison McGee]

Brutal. But yeah. So I'm watching that, and it is good. It's, you know, for a 10th season, I think it's scary. And Vanderpump ran into this too, where you're like, what do you do? Season 10? It's got to be good. And I think they're knocking it out of the park. I think it's great.

[Tom Schwartz]

It feels so fresh. Same with Southern charm.

[Madison McGee]

I don't watch Southern Charm. But you know what's funny? I went to college in Charleston, South Carolina, and I was in college when they started that show. And so I remember, like, Craig going to, like, sorority formals with girls I knew. And I remember Thomas Ravenel showing up to the after parties and being like, this guy is so old. What is he doing here? Like, we're all, like, trolling 22. So. Yeah, I remember the beginnings of that show, but I wasn't into reality TV then, so I never have seen it. And now it's too hard for me to get into.

[Tom Schwartz]

Well, they're all great. The whole cast is great. I was in Vegas not long ago with Austin and Craig for opening football College Day. We were at the Wynn Sports book, and Craig gave me a master class in craps, and I had my most profitable session ever. Thank you, Craig.

[Madison McGee]

Thank you, Craig.

[Tom Schwartz]

We did an episode about it. Wait, what was your gateway show that got you into reality tv?

[Madison McGee]

Well, it's funny. It was Vanderpump rule.

[Tom Schwartz]

What?

[Madison McGee]

Yes.

[Tom Schwartz]

So it's so weird, the revelation.

[Madison McGee]

I was at a party in 20. You're part of the story. I was at a party in, like, 20, 22. And I met a girl named Sheena Shay, and I had no idea who she was, and she was with her husband, who's Australian, and I lived in Australia, and so we were talking about how he lived there. He lived in Brisbane. And then she was like, oh, you gotta meet my sister. And I met her sister, Courtney. And Courtney and I are closer in age, so Courtney and I hit it off. Then, like, a month later, Courtney's like, oh, hey, I'm going to this party at this bar that I think is down the street from you. Do you want to come? It was your very first holiday party

[Tom Schwartz]

at Schwartz and Sam's.

[Madison McGee]

You handed me a shot.

[Tom Schwartz]

Oh, my.

[Madison McGee]

But I didn't know you, and I didn't know who you were.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah.

[Madison McGee]

So I was like, thanks. And then that was it. Hung out with Courtney.

[Tom Schwartz]

Was the shot good?

[Madison McGee]

It was great.

[Tom Schwartz]

Thank you.

[Madison McGee]

It was fantastic. And then I go home. It's the holidays. So I'm like, I should probably watch this show since, like, now I know Sheena and it. I can't really get into shows unless I feel like I'm connected to people on it.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Madison McGee]

So I was like, oh, I feel like maybe now I will, like, get it. So I started watching from season one, and I made it through, like, seven seasons in, like, three weeks. I was like, this show is crazy. These people are insane.

[Tom Schwartz]

You went on a vander bender.

[Madison McGee]

I went on a bender. And then the new season was airing, and it was. Then it was March 1st.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Madison McGee]

So I caught up right when all that was going down, and then it was like, oh, now I can watch in real time as they're airing. But it was. Yeah, it was weird. And then by then, it was like, oh, I know these people. So it was very weird to watch everything unfold and be like, oh, I kind of know what's happening in real life, and now I'm watching what's airing on tv. It was just a very weird.

[Tom Schwartz]

It was weird when you. When you become close, like, with some of the other cast members in this world, it does take away from the fun of the voyeurism because I'm like, these are my friends. I have a deep podcast personal connection with some of these.

[Madison McGee]

It ruins the lore.

[Tom Schwartz]

It's not as fun anymore.

[Madison McGee]

No.

[Tom Schwartz]

I feel horrible, and I'm not able to lose myself. There's no escapism. Yeah. I'm just like, wait. I. I feel like I'm. I feel like a peeping Tom.

[Madison McGee]

Yeah. Yeah. It's weird. It's really Weird. And watching the older seasons was kind of fun because it was like, oh, this is them forever ago. Like, watching season one, it was like, oh, you were not the same person, so who cares? But the club closer, it got to, like, real life. Like, watching summer be born, I was like, oh, these are. This is the version of them I know now that's kind of weird, but, yeah, it was. Yeah.

[Tom Schwartz]

Wait, so you're. So your introduction to Vanderpump rules was Sheena Shea. Yeah. Oh, my God. Brock and Brocky, baby.

[Madison McGee]

Brock. Yeah.

[Tom Schwartz]

By the way, shout out to the most iconic song in the history of Bravo. Good as gold.

[Madison McGee]

Yes. It's fantastic.

[Tom Schwartz]

We're high fiving. I'm starting to feel a little euphoric. Off the cava. Is your tongue tingling yet? Off the triple shot?

[Madison McGee]

It is. I can feel it, but it's not tingling in the way I thought it would.

[Tom Schwartz]

You know, Sheena gets like. She is so beloved. Like, people love her, but they also love to hate her. They love you. Do you know the meme? How is this going to affect Sheena?

[Madison McGee]

Yes. Like.

[Tom Schwartz]

Like, she's. She's so well equipped now to deal

[Madison McGee]

with online criticism is she should write a how to on how. I mean, it's. I've never seen anyone handle it in such an incredible way. But what's so crazy to me is if you meet her in person, it's like, totally. Like, she. You couldn't love her more. But not everyone obviously gets the chance. So it's like, oh, I just wish she could, like, get on a bus and go on tour and just, like, shake hands with everyone. Like, she's running for president. I'm like, everyone would love Sheena if you just met Gina.

[Tom Schwartz]

Well, it's like, I don't have the best reputation online. You know, it's like a little sorted. But generally speaking, people love me in person. Just online, it's like, I have. You know, it's got to be tough.

[Madison McGee]

What do you do? What do you. How do you deal with that?

[Tom Schwartz]

Wait, I'm going to turn it around. Uno, reverse. How do you handle. Like, how do you handle criticism? Constructive criticism? Haters, how do you handle that? How do you navigate? Are you okay with constructive criticism or haters?

[Madison McGee]

I get a lot of weird messages sometimes, and I think I'm trying to get better about this because it is so easy and it's so cheesy, but it's so easy to see 100amazing comments and then get that one and go, oh, I'm gonna think about this. All day long. And that's so ridiculous. And you hear that all the time, like, don't focus on the one. But it's hard to not. But I still, like, am really trying to make an effort to be like, I'm not going to. To focus on that. I saw a thing. It's like a. Such a. Like Tumblr, whatever. But now that, like, I'm older and like, money is, like, more important because it's how my life runs, it was like, oh, if you have eight $83,600 in a day and someone takes $10 away, are you going to throw the rest of the money away? And it's like, no. So if someone says something to you that ruins 10 seconds of your day, are you going to throw away the rest of your day? And I'm like, no, that's such a good. Like, if someone cuts you off in traffic, if something happens or someone says something rude or you read a weird comment, you're going to throw your whole day away because of that one thing. I will never do that again.

[Tom Schwartz]

This is a great lesson. This is a great metaphor and a reminder to never let the trolls win. I like the trolls as long as they're funny.

[Madison McGee]

Oh, yeah, I love funny. I. Yeah, I've got like some. My. One of my favorites was. I don't know if we've had this conversation, but someone sent me a message. My cousin and called my dad a snitch ass daddy and said, oh, he deserved to die because he was a snitch ass daddy. And I put that on a T shirt and then I wrote a song.

[Tom Schwartz]

You know, you just reminded me because, like, Elvis used to be funny enough one of the most polarizing characters in the nation. At one point, shaking those hips. He's got the devil in those hips. But, like, his manager capitalized on that. He used to sell I hate Elvis buttons outside of his concerts and make a ton of money.

[Madison McGee]

It's genius.

[Tom Schwartz]

It's genius.

[Madison McGee]

It's so genius.

[Tom Schwartz]

You know what's been fascinating me lately is the people who start comments with we, we want X, Y, Z.

[Madison McGee]

It's.

[Tom Schwartz]

I'm always confused as to how, when, and why they anointed themselves to speak for the people.

[Madison McGee]

It's the same as guys who watch football and go, this is what we got to do next. It's like, you're not on the field. You're not on the team, brother. Like, no, we don't have to do anything. You're eating chicken wings on your couch. Like, you're. We What?

[Tom Schwartz]

It's armchair quarterback.

[Madison McGee]

You wouldn't run a mile if I gave you a million dollars.

[Tom Schwartz]

I just. I'm like, do you have no self identity? Or like, are you too scared to start? I. I feel like it's easier if you don't start your sentence with I hate you, Schwartz.

[Madison McGee]

Right.

[Tom Schwartz]

It's so personal and intimate. We don't want you.

[Madison McGee]

Yeah, we makes it feel like, oh, it's. It's a bunch of us. I'm not alone. I'm not an. But you are.

[Tom Schwartz]

Wait, I am the people.

[Madison McGee]

Oh, people saying it.

[Tom Schwartz]

I'm still sensitive.

[Madison McGee]

The one. The one typing.

[Tom Schwartz]

I still have trauma, Madison. Especially on the precipice of the new season, which I'm really excited. We don't have to get into.

[Madison McGee]

Oh, but I want.

[Tom Schwartz]

No, no, I want to talk about. Can we talk about you first?

[Madison McGee]

Yeah, because.

[Tom Schwartz]

Okay.

[Madison McGee]

Come on. Give the people what they want.

[Tom Schwartz]

They already got it. The premiere of the Valley season three just. Did you watch it?

[Madison McGee]

No, I haven't won.

[Tom Schwartz]

I'm going to show it to you afterwards. Oh, yes, it's pretty good.

[Madison McGee]

But are you going to recap the show?

[Tom Schwartz]

I don't think so.

[Madison McGee]

Okay.

[Tom Schwartz]

It's not my bag, but I will occasionally. I will dabble in recaps.

[Madison McGee]

Okay.

[Tom Schwartz]

But you got to give the people what they want.

[Madison McGee]

They want recaps.

[Tom Schwartz]

I'm a little self indulgent with this podcast. I'm like, I want to go talk to Madison and drink kava. I don't know if you guys want to hear. Hear that, but I love your podcast, by the way. Any update? No, we already. We already talked about that. Your. Your dad's case remains.

[Madison McGee]

Yeah, there's like, any updates? I stopped the podcast for now to sort of focus on other efforts and. And give myself a little bit of a mental break. But what was really interesting, and I had a feeling this was going to happen, was as soon as I stopped putting out episodes, I started hearing from people that were like, oh, now that you're done with the podcast, here's all the information I have. Or, now that you're done with the podcast, I didn't want to be on your podcast, but I'll give you a call now. And I'm like, of course. So now I have information that I'm kind of just going through on my own behind the scenes. And when there's a really major update, like, I'll. I'll give an update. But yeah, it's been interesting to hear a lot of new info now that the podcast has sort of quote, unquote, done.

[Tom Schwartz]

That's exciting. Will you incorporate the updates into Frozen Files?

[Madison McGee]

No, I'll leave it all on Ice Cold Case. Yeah, they're gonna live separately. And, yeah, Frozen Files is really going to be dedicated to, like, other people's stories and other people's cases and cases that don't get a ton of attention. And, you know, I mean, right now, a huge example of this is the Nancy Guthrie, you know, disappearance. And so, you know, there's been so much coverage of this, and even just today, TMZ announced that they're not going to be providing any more updates from the ransom notes, which is very interesting. And I've got a lot of different sort of thoughts on this case, but what I think is so fascinating about this is everyone has dropped everything to talk about this online. I know true crime podcasters that have put their content on hold to just cover this case. Her case doesn't really need any more coverage. It's getting coverage. There are so many other cases that. That deserve and need that kind of attention, and they're not getting it. For example, Lil John, his son on or right around the same day that Nancy Guthrie went missing, was killed, and his body was found in a Georgia pond. And nobody is really talking about it because everyone's talking about Nancy Guthrie. So it's just like, my show exists for the people who don't get the coverage that is capturing the entire world and getting every ounce of media attention. And so that's sort of why I started Frozen Files.

[Tom Schwartz]

You just answered my next question, so thank you. Yeah. Now, I don't know what's.

[Madison McGee]

We share a brain. No, we share a kava brain.

[Tom Schwartz]

I just. We do. I just listened to the first episode. By the way, I told you this before. You're a great fucking writer.

[Madison McGee]

Thank you.

[Tom Schwartz]

And producer and director. But you're a great writer. I was riveted. First, before I say his name, I want to say rest in peace to Toby Bow.

[Madison McGee]

Yes.

[Tom Schwartz]

Rest in peace to his friends and family. And I loved that you collaborated with his sister to raise awareness and. And.

[Podcast Host]

And.

[Tom Schwartz]

And put it out there.

[Podcast Host]

Just. Yeah.

[Tom Schwartz]

I don't know how else to phrase it.

[Madison McGee]

Yeah.

[Tom Schwartz]

Just raise away.

[Podcast Host]

So.

[Tom Schwartz]

So you're doing it as an activist in a sense, too. It's entertaining.

[Madison McGee]

Yeah. And that was that. That's funny that you mentioned that. It was a really strategic decision that I grappled with. I. Every episode so far that we've done, we've done about eight that we've recorded all of Them have been in collaboration with the family. And I'm. I'm hoping that that percentage stays at. About 90% of the episodes are like directly in collaboration with the family. They know about the episode, they read the script before I record. Like they are fully involved. However, when I reach out to them, I make it very clear that I don't want to sensationalize the murder or disappearance of your loved one. However, I'm going to tell this story in a compelling way where it feels entertaining so that the audience stays engaged and by the end of it they care and they're invested and they're involved because that's what really matters is that they feel the connection to this person so that they want to do something about it or share it with somebody. Someone or whatever. And so I really try to ride that line of like being very sensitive to the person but also making sure that like I do their case justice in making it as interesting and compelling as possible so that people are like hooked. So yeah, it's sort of this interesting line that I never thought I would be straddling so closely.

[Tom Schwartz]

I think you do a great job. It does. It ne. Listen, it doesn't feel exploitative.

[Madison McGee]

Yeah.

[Tom Schwartz]

Do you know what I mean? It's not clickbaity. Wait, can I read an expert? An ex. Her?

[Madison McGee]

Yeah.

[Tom Schwartz]

Oh my God. From your most recent episode. Cuz it stuck with me. Okay. Unless you want to, I'll read it.

[Madison McGee]

Yeah, you read it.

[Tom Schwartz]

One thing that stands out to me about this night is how unremarkable it was. No conflict, no tension, no warning signs. In investigations that kind of normaly isn't inconsequential.

[Podcast Host]

It's evidence.

[Tom Schwartz]

Because it tells us this tragedy didn't come from something brewing all night. It came out of nowhere. Later, Melissa would confirm to police that Toby did not have any kind of confrontation that night. So you guys can watch the episode. But he got some in 2002.

[Madison McGee]

It was 2006.

[Tom Schwartz]

2006, someone in. After he was. He was walking away from Marty Gr. Chilling with his girl and someone deliberately hit him with a car.

[Madison McGee]

Yeah. And then drove away.

[Tom Schwartz]

And to me that really stuck with me because like when there's a motive, it's still terrifying. But when there's no motive and it seems like it's just a random act of violence, it really fucking scares me to my core.

[Madison McGee]

Yeah, well, because it can happen to anyone. I mean, I was doing a show over the last year where I was talking with journalists about the stories they were covering in crime and there was One that was, you know, you were. They were driving on the highway in traffic and someone like got in their car and like, it was like a highway. Like they were just like carjacking on the highway. And when you put yourself in that, it's like, I drive on the highway every single day. It's just scary. It's like every time I talk about a story, I'm like, new fear unlocked. It's so crazy because you put yourself in that. You're like, that could be me. I could be walking on the sidewalk. I could be driving in my car. And if it's random, you are not. You can do all the right things in your life. You can get a security system, you can lock your door, you can call your friends when you're walking from the parking garage into your house. But if it's random, there's nothing you can do about it.

[Tom Schwartz]

It sort of negates what we talked about earlier. You know, going through practicing with your nervous system while watching reality TV or True Crime.

[Podcast Host]

Right.

[Tom Schwartz]

What would I do? Would I notice that?

[Podcast Host]

Would I fall?

[Madison McGee]

And what's. You won't. You. You could be the most. I mean, there are like. I mean, look at Savannah Guthrie is a journalist and her mom was abducted. Like, there's nothing you can do to like prevent or stop these things. It's sad and scary.

[Tom Schwartz]

By the way, with the Nancy situation, there's. There's no known motives right now. Right.

[Madison McGee]

Right now there's not just money. They've ruled out the family and everyone in the family. There was sort of speculation, revelation about the son in law or something like that, but they've ruled him out. But yeah, they. They don't know. It's really bizarre.

[Tom Schwartz]

It's, It's. You know, another thing that at the end of your most recent episode with Toby. Right? Yes, with Toby. I, like, this really resonated with me. I was blown away with like all the true crime cases I've watched. The disparity in competence and incompetence and them caring and like, like when I'm watching Cold Case Files, like, these guys are dedicated.

[Madison McGee]

Yeah.

[Tom Schwartz]

They really, like, they fight for these people. But sometimes you get, you know, someone who's kind of nonchalant and different, or maybe they're just going through their own life, harrowing issues. Their life's falling apart. It's hard for them to really, like, be committed or do their job well.

[Madison McGee]

Totally.

[Tom Schwartz]

Like when someone that means the world to you has died or been murdered and the person on your case is just sort of Phoning it in. I can't imagine how brutally frustrating that is.

[Madison McGee]

Yeah, it's really frustrating when you know that's your life, that's your person, your dad, your cousin, your sister, your son. And you can tell that this person's just like, clocking in for work and, like, clocking him for a shift. And you're like, oh, my God. You can't even really describe how frustrating that can feel. And then you sort of grapple with, okay, if I bring up my frustration or I display it at all, you sort of become like a nuisance. And it's like, oh, now you're annoying. You're that annoying family member. And you get sort of this bad rap with these people, like the police, the investigators, and they start to sort of keep you at an arm's length.

[Tom Schwartz]

They become numb and it might backfire and cause them to just sort of pull back from totally. It's happened to me in the hospital when my father was in there, when my brother was in there hounding the nurses, not, you know, not thinking it's fight orf flight. It's like when my dad's dying and, you know, he's on life support, it's like, please, like, he needs more. And they're just. They have 10 other people in the ward on that floor going through the same thing. And I try to empathize with them. So sometimes I try to empathize with the detectives, but I, I sure.

[Madison McGee]

Sometimes it is. It's not negligence, it's lack of resources. It's, you know, these. A lot of these cold cases are in these small towns. They just don't have the infrastructure. But sometimes that's a cop out, and that's sort of like an excuse for why, you know, things don't get done. But it's. It's brutal. So, you know, now media attention can solve cases as we're seeing every day. And so, yeah, I'm just trying to get people angry enough that they tweet about it and then maybe something will happen.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah, no, you made a compelling case for Toby. Like I said before, you're not just. You're not just doing this for entertainment. You're an advocate. It's very near and dear. You have. Have empathy for people going through similar things that you've gone through. Yeah. So I just wanted to shout out the advocacy and the way you promote at the end.

[Madison McGee]

Yeah, yeah, we'll give, like, a tip line. And. And it's nice because sometimes, like, in my case, the police are not helpful. So if a Random podcast is covering my dad's case. They're just going to leave the number for, like, the Belmont County Sheriff's Department, the most useless people on earth. So I would rather you give my email because I'll be able to take those tips. So when we work with the families, we kind of go, okay, who's been helpful? Are the police helpful? Great, we'll give that number. Do you have a private email that you've been accepting tips through? We'll do that. And so we kind of work with them to go, what's the correct way to get you information? If this were to drum up anything? And so that's nice. We leave, like, a call number or an email.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah, yeah. Um.

[Podcast Host]

Well, that's awesome.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah, that's freaking awesome. Can I ask you, how do you decide which cases to follow? Like, what's. You don't have to. You don't have to leak for sure processes. No, no, no, it's okay. But how do you decide which ones you want to, like, dive into?

[Madison McGee]

Yeah, in the beginning, it's tough because there's so much research that goes into these, and with cold cases and cold cases that aren't covered, it's actually very hard. A lot of your favorite true crime podcasts will watch a documentary, read a People magazine article, and write their episode. I don't have access to that because those don't exist for the cases I'm covering. So I work very closely with this girl. Her name is Haley Gray. She's amazing. She's also a huge advocate for families. She has done a ton of research already on a lot of these cases. So we've worked together to go through her backlog of research, and we've started with those because it takes a long time to research these cases. So I have her list that we've begun with, and those are sort of the first 20 that you'll hear. Now, behind the scenes, I have a list of cases that have been sent to me in my DMs, in my email, whatever, and we're actively looking into those cases, and those will come out once we have the research and those are written and properly investigated. So it's sort of a combination of, like, what was already available to me so that we could go ahead and get these cases out there and cases that I'm currently investigating. But my list right now of just names of victims that have either caught my attention or been sent to me or that I have access to is around 150.

[Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Madison McGee]

Yeah.

[Tom Schwartz]

Sadly, a deep well.

[Madison McGee]

Yeah.

[Tom Schwartz]

And it's going to keep growing. I imagine there's hundreds of thousands.

[Madison McGee]

Yeah, there's over 250,000 cold cases just in America. And, yeah, it's. It's sad. It's really sad.

[Tom Schwartz]

That's really sad. And it feels bleak. But one at a time. One at a time. It's good to know that people like you are out there raising awareness and wait. On a lighter note, can I ask you what. Well, first of all, what was your gateway true crime? Like, what's your favorite true crime show?

[Madison McGee]

That's a great question. I grew up watching America's Most Wanted, so I was like, 7, 8, 9 every Saturday with my mom watching, like, at the time, the scariest show ever. Because I'm a child and I grew up in West Virginia, and we didn't have a house key. Like, we never locked the door. So I remember, like, being really young, being, like, in bed, like, oh, my God, our door is unlocked. Is someone just gonna, like, walk in and, like, take me away? Like, what's gonna happen to me? So that's my earliest memory. So that, by default is kind of like my go to favorite show. I have to say I love Dateline because I'm friends with Josh Mankiewicz. So Shout out, NBC, Dateline. I love. I love Josh. He's the best. He's such a good friend and so supportive, so I love that. Cool. And it's not as true crimey, but did you ever watch the show? What would you do with John Quinones? Oh, my God, it's so good.

[Tom Schwartz]

What would you do?

[Madison McGee]

What would you do? He would, like, okay, so we would. He would be here right at this cavana, and they would set up a scenario where, like, someone would, like, steal something, and the other people in the restaurant wouldn't know that it was part of a TV show. So they'd watch as, like, someone. Someone, like, let them steal. Like, let's say someone took all the money out of the tip jar, and then they'd watch and see who does something about it.

[Tom Schwartz]

That's a social experiment.

[Madison McGee]

Yes. And then at the end, let's say someone says, hey, no, put that back. Then he comes out and he's like, what would you do? And it's like, it's really interesting. It was, like, a very fun show.

[Tom Schwartz]

That sounds, by the way, I grew up on Unsolved Mysteries.

[Madison McGee]

Okay. Yeah.

[Tom Schwartz]

Do you know about that?

[Madison McGee]

Yes, course.

[Podcast Host]

Of.

[Madison McGee]

Of course.

[Tom Schwartz]

That's the OG that's, like. That's the OG Favorite of all time.

[Madison McGee]

Yeah.

[Tom Schwartz]

Hooked for life. Do. Do you dabble in the supernatural, cryptids, stuff like that?

[Madison McGee]

Not as much, but I think I would like it.

[Tom Schwartz]

Was there a ghost in your childhood house?

[Madison McGee]

No, but I spend a lot of time at the Comedy Store, and they definitely have the ghost of several people floating around in that building. And I've seen them and I know them and they're there, and it's scary, really.

[Tom Schwartz]

I've been there and I know about the lore. I think Polly Shore's mom, Mitzi, has been known to haunt.

[Madison McGee]

Yes.

[Tom Schwartz]

The Comedy Store, amongst others. But you can feel it in there.

[Madison McGee]

You can feel it.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah.

[Madison McGee]

Yeah.

[Tom Schwartz]

I don't know if it's a. Like, I believe in the supernatural. I believe in that. I really do. But sometimes I'm like, is it just a byproduct of us psyching ourselves out?

[Madison McGee]

No, it's real.

[Podcast Host]

I think.

[Tom Schwartz]

I think it's real, too. There's just been too many stories.

[Madison McGee]

We. But, like, not a segue, but kind of aliens.

[Tom Schwartz]

Oh, I'm all in on it.

[Madison McGee]

I'm all in too.

[Tom Schwartz]

Unequivocally. Like, if I had to bet my

[Madison McGee]

life, my whole life.

[Tom Schwartz]

So it's like, either there are aliens or there aren't alien Schwartz. And if you're wrong, you're going to die. I would pick. There are aliens.

[Madison McGee]

Aliens. There are definitely aliens.

[Tom Schwartz]

Would you put your life on that?

[Madison McGee]

I would for sure. Would you put your life on that they're on Earth right now or just that they exist?

[Tom Schwartz]

I just took a deep, dramatic breath. The cob is kicking. My tongue is tingling. I think I would.

[Madison McGee]

Are they here? Are they in Santa Monica? Are they at Cavana?

[Tom Schwartz]

Are. Are you an alien? Am I an alien?

[Madison McGee]

That would be kind of fun, but if you didn't know. Oh, that's a good movie idea. Nobody take that. It's mine.

[Tom Schwartz]

That's yours. Delete that, Schwartz. By the way, side note, how's Joshua Tree life? So Madison has a beautiful house that she put her heart and soul into. Is it available to rent or is

[Podcast Host]

it just for you?

[Madison McGee]

It is available to rent.

[Tom Schwartz]

Do you want to plug it real quick?

[Madison McGee]

Yeah. The listing will be up probably by the time this is out. Yes, you can rent my house. It's so cool. I put everything into renovating it. It's amazing. It's a two bedroom, one bath on five acres in Joshua Tree. It's stunning. I have a putting green. I have a hot tub. I have a hammock. I have a fire pit. It's so fun. I, like, love it so much.

[Tom Schwartz]

Madison, that's all cool and exciting, but has anyone been murdered there?

[Madison McGee]

So probably. Probably. I mean, let's be real. Probably. It's. I mean, Joshua Tree is so scary. Like not in like a crime way, but in a. It's so desolate where it's like you. We don't know what's happened here. Like, we don't know who's been here like in like hundreds of years ago. Like what was going on on this land. Yes. And everyone's. So, you know, all these plots of the land are massive and you don't. My neighbors are so far away, so when you go out there, it feels so magical. But you know me, with my crime background, I'm like, I wonder what happened here like a hundred years ago.

[Tom Schwartz]

Does your mind run wild?

[Madison McGee]

Oh, yeah. I mean, I make up so much stuff, but it's kind of fun. I mean, I know it's not true. I mean, I had my whole house and property. I went around with like sage and like I did the whole thing. So.

[Tom Schwartz]

Palo Santo.

[Madison McGee]

Yeah, it's. We're clear.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah, I do that in every new place.

[Madison McGee]

Yeah, you gotta. Are you still a plant guy?

[Tom Schwartz]

Oh yeah.

[Madison McGee]

You were the plant guy.

[Tom Schwartz]

I've weaned myself off. I think I have like 20 now.

[Madison McGee]

Okay.

[Tom Schwartz]

And I love them.

[Madison McGee]

That's good. You. If I may say so, you. You just give too much love to everything. So I think 20 plants is safe and good.

[Tom Schwartz]

20 plants. I have Gordo Butters. I have a new fish named Hans. He's a Beta fish.

[Podcast Host]

Fish.

[Madison McGee]

Oh, I love that.

[Tom Schwartz]

And then I have like this sucker fish named Maximus and this one snail. And. And. And I'm good. That's it.

[Madison McGee]

Oh, that's a lot of. Yeah, that's a lot of things.

[Tom Schwartz]

That's my.

[Podcast Host]

Happy.

[Madison McGee]

For someone who goes out of town a lot, that's a lot of.

[Tom Schwartz]

I have my brother who actually is staying with me and the dogs love him and he's a great caretaker and also Katie watches the dogs a lot.

[Madison McGee]

Okay.

[Tom Schwartz]

But it's nice to know they're there cuz, like, I love them so much. I get sad when I leave every time.

[Madison McGee]

This. This might be too personal. Feel free to cut it out. Or not. Answer. Is Jack still your neighbor?

[Tom Schwartz]

Jack's actually just moved about a week ago. He got a new place.

[Madison McGee]

Good for him.

[Tom Schwartz]

Fresh start. I don't want to speak for him cuz I think he's been keeping a low profile. But I'll just say based on what I've seen, he's doing really well.

[Madison McGee]

Okay, good.

[Tom Schwartz]

He's very. He's dialed in on his sobriety and yeah, man, he's put a lot of work into himself.

[Madison McGee]

That's good.

[Tom Schwartz]

But I don't want to say too much cuz he, he's been purposely keeping a low profile, so I don't want to.

[Madison McGee]

But you're no longer neighbors.

[Tom Schwartz]

No, we're not neighbors anymore.

[Madison McGee]

Maybe that's good. Are you the only one in that? Because Max lived across the street.

[Tom Schwartz]

He did, yeah.

[Madison McGee]

But not anymore. So it's just you?

[Tom Schwartz]

Max actually just came back. Oh, he was in Dallas. He was helping open the Delilah there.

[Madison McGee]

Oh, that's cool.

[Tom Schwartz]

But he's back now. Jax has moved, but. Yeah, it doesn't, it doesn't feel as step bro brother E anymore. Do you know what I mean? The optics weren't great. Although Jax was a great neighbor. He was so peaceful. I never heard a peep out of him.

[Madison McGee]

Oh, that's good.

[Tom Schwartz]

He was such a good neighbor. Yeah, but let's just stop there. Yeah, we don't.

[Madison McGee]

That's great.

[Tom Schwartz]

We don't have to go any deeper. Wait, should we make a toast? That. Wait, should we do a little toast? A little immemorial for Schwartz and Sandy's? Because we have to you. So Madison hosted multiple events for her podcast. I want to see. You have one of the most eclectic, cool group of friends. It's like a model and then a doctor, a writer, an actor, a scientist, a marine biologist.

[Madison McGee]

I just collect cool people. I don't care what you do. You know, it's like I think that. And that's rare in LA to just sort of. I think I do this when I'm dating. Also, my friends are like, you don't really have a type. It's like I'm very personality based and I think I'm like that with my friends.

[Progressive Insurance Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Madison McGee]

Where it's like if we click and we connect, like, I don't care if you're from Vanderpump Rules or you, like, work at the hospital as a nurse. Like I'm. If you're cool and we're vibing, we're friends. Who cares? But yeah, I threw those parties that were fun.

[Podcast Host]

You did.

[Tom Schwartz]

Thank you for your support through all of our strange and twisted years.

[Madison McGee]

Yeah, it was fun. But I, I, I'm sad. I loved that place. I liked going there when I wasn't having parties. And we would sit and eat a lobster corn dog and good times. I would go there and write. I would bring my laptop.

[Tom Schwartz]

I remember it was the best of times. It was the worst of times.

[Madison McGee]

Worst of times for you.

[Tom Schwartz]

But as time goes on, I, I, I, I only remember the best.

[Madison McGee]

That's all you can do.

[Tom Schwartz]

The pain fades away.

[Madison McGee]

And how beautiful, beautiful it is to try something.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah. And. And go all in. Put your heart and soul into it. Risk everything.

[Madison McGee]

Yeah.

[Tom Schwartz]

And. And just go for it.

[Madison McGee]

Yeah.

[Tom Schwartz]

I gotta be honest. When it doesn't work out, your heart gets ripped out. And if you're thinking about opening a bar restaurant, to think long and hard.

[Madison McGee]

Yeah.

[Tom Schwartz]

Think long.

[Madison McGee]

But you have Tom. Tom still.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yes, we still have tomorrow.

[Madison McGee]

Tom.

[Tom Schwartz]

West Hollywood in general has been struggling a little bit. I just know because I go there a lot. And, yeah, people aren't going out and drinking as much, but anyways.

[Madison McGee]

Well, is okay. So there is a thing. I don't drink alcohol anymore. I haven't had alcohol in over a year. Do you think that's becoming a thing?

[Tom Schwartz]

It's a thing.

[Madison McGee]

It's a thing. And it's impacting, you know, people going out and doing stuff because it's like, oh, I don't want to go out if I'm not gonna, like, get hammered. And so then they just either stay home or they go to a movie or they go bowling or they do something else. And that's.

[Tom Schwartz]

You think that's impacting significantly? So many spots. I did an episode on it. Like, the Sunset Strip has been decimated. The den just closed. Rock and Rod. There's so many places that have closed post Covid. It just can't keep up with it. The high cost of rent, rent, labor, it's just, like, such thin margins as it was. And with rising costs and everything, it's really, really hard to be profitable and keep the doors open with a bar restaurant right now. But, yeah, we need to end on a high note.

[Madison McGee]

Okay.

[Tom Schwartz]

Something beautiful, something poetic, something. I believe in us prophetic. Something epic. Okay, you guys, thanks for tuning in for our little kava.

[Madison McGee]

Yeah, this was fun.

[Tom Schwartz]

How's your tongue?

[Madison McGee]

I'm still feeling tingly, so.

[Tom Schwartz]

Nice. Yeah, it's a really nice, subtle sensation.

[Madison McGee]

I don't hate it. And I like that it's kind of all, like, up here and not. I don't feel weird in my body.

[Podcast Host]

I feel.

[Madison McGee]

How.

[Tom Schwartz]

How do you feel?

[Madison McGee]

I feel it's the only thing I can really equate it to is, like, high, but I. It's not the same, but it's similar.

[Tom Schwartz]

It feels like it'd be great for anxiety.

[Madison McGee]

Yeah.

[Tom Schwartz]

And from what I understand how it works from a physiological standpoint it kind of works similar to how alcohol or like anti anxiety medicine calms you down.

[Madison McGee]

Yeah. I. We had this conversation very shortly after I did it for the very first time. I feel very similar to when I did ketamine.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah, but.

[Madison McGee]

But like, not a lot. Yeah, yeah.

[Tom Schwartz]

Like a micro dose.

[Madison McGee]

Yeah. You just do a teeny bit.

[Tom Schwartz]

Because we're mindful.

[Madison McGee]

Yeah.

[Tom Schwartz]

And it's. This is kind of ritualistic, but ketamine

[Madison McGee]

is, I think, an anti anxiety drug.

[Podcast Host]

It.

[Tom Schwartz]

I don't know much about ketamine.

[Madison McGee]

I think they are prescribing it now as like anti anxiety. No, I didn't do a lot when I did it, so I didn't feel like crazy. Like I was at a party and I basically did a little bit and then it removed my social anxiety. So I was able to sort of exist in the party and not feel like, oh, my God, did I say that? Why did I say that? And like replay conversations in my head. I just was able to kind of float through.

[Tom Schwartz]

I like that.

[Madison McGee]

And I feel a little similar to that now.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yeah, I'm feeling the float.

[Madison McGee]

I feel floaty.

[Tom Schwartz]

Very pleasant.

[Madison McGee]

Yeah.

[Tom Schwartz]

And mild.

[Madison McGee]

Yes.

[Tom Schwartz]

Like, I don't feel intoxicated. Not whatsoever.

[Madison McGee]

No.

[Tom Schwartz]

You know, I feel like.

[Madison McGee]

I feel chill. I could drive home.

[Tom Schwartz]

Totally. Yeah. So shout out to Cava.

[Madison McGee]

Shout out to Cava.

[Tom Schwartz]

Shout out to Madison. Where can we find you? You gotta plug yourself.

[Madison McGee]

Oh, I'm Madison McGee on everything. Ice Cold case, Frozen files, wherever you get your podcast.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yes.

[Madison McGee]

And yeah, I'm. I'm around. I'm like out and about. I'm.

[Tom Schwartz]

I'm around somewhere in Franklin Village. Not at Schwartz and Sand, but that's okay.

[Madison McGee]

But I wish I was sometimes.

[Tom Schwartz]

It's in a better place now.

[Madison McGee]

Heaven.

[Tom Schwartz]

Yes. Or maybe I'm not sure about that one.

[KFC Narrator]

No.

[Tom Schwartz]

But thank you for doing this. It was so fun.

[Madison McGee]

Awesome.

[Tom Schwartz]

I appreciate you.

[Madison McGee]

Thanks for having me.

[Tom Schwartz]

Thank you, Madison. Check out our podcast. And one more time, Madison. Underscore McGee.

[Madison McGee]

Yeah.

[Tom Schwartz]

Get a spell, McGee.

[Madison McGee]

Oh, M C G H E E. Cool.

[Tom Schwartz]

I'll tag. I'll tag her on my Instagram.

[Progressive Insurance Advertiser]

Instagram.

[Tom Schwartz]

When this airs, you guys try some kava. Listen to her podcasts and what else?

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Thank you, guys.

[Tom Schwartz]

Feel the tingle. Thank you. Bye.

[Podcast Host]

Thank you guys for tuning in to another episode of Detox. Retox heavier on the Detox. Thank you, Madison. Also, just real quick, while I'm with you guys, rnpl, listen, life comes at you quick. Rent prices are insane. Maybe you could use a helping hand a few months to float while you get your finances together, alleviate some of that financial pressure or maybe the upfront burden, the cost of moving into a new place. First, last month's rent. Check out rnpl.com that's rnplcredit.com okay? Rent prices are crazy. Life's expensive. Shit happens. I want you guys to go check it out. If you use a helping hand, they also have a new program that can lead to not only building your credit but becoming first time homeowner. So if you have any other questions, I want you guys to go check it out. And listen, full disclosure, I do have a little stake in this company, but only because I believe in it. And yeah, if you have any other questions, you can hit up support@rnpl credit.com or I like calling more 1-888-818 RNPL and check it out. RNPL credit.com thank you guys. Madison, thank you. This is a fun episode. I love Kava kava. You have made a fan for life. Okay, until next time. Love you guys.

[Madison McGee]

Detoxification complete. Pluto TV has thousands of free free movies and TV shows.

[Tom Schwartz]

I swear, if I'm lying, I'm dying.

[Madison McGee]

This is the mindset. Free. This is the mantra.

[KFC Narrator]

Free.

[Madison McGee]

This is the. With movies like Interstellar Dream Girls and Gladiator. Are you not entertained? And TV shows like Survivor, Spongebob Squarepants, the Fairly Odd Parents and Ghosts. Pluto TV is always free. Huzzah. Pluto tv. Stranger dream. Now pay. Never.

[Progressive Insurance Advertiser]

Every day as a small business owner feels like solving a puzzle. One moment you're cruising along and the next there's a shipping snack that has you scrambling. But here's a surprise you will like with Progressive. Small business owners save 13% on their commercial auto insurance when they pay in full. So go ahead, surprise yourself. Get a quote in as little as 8 [e-mail] progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates. Discounts not available in all states or situations.