← Dial In with Jonny Ardavanis
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- [00:00]
A
If you believe that Jesus Christ is the only way to God, you're not what our country is all about. The next generation, the rest of our life, we are going to experience a different world than maybe our grandparents experienced. It's easy for people to gather and holy huddle, shake their fingers, shake their heads, talk about how dark the world is without going, all right, this is my mission field, you know, these are the people God has called me to reach. And unless you're doing that, I think inevitably you're just going to start to view people with a chip on your shoulder that don't know Jesus, and you'll confuse the mission field with your enemy.
- [00:35]
B
Yeah, it's that we did nothing to separate ourselves from the ungodly. Apart from the work that Christ began
- [00:43]
A
in us, you have to remember that apart from the grace of God, you'd be exactly like them. You have to remember what Christ has done, that his love and his grace and his mercy transformed you. And then you have to do something else. In verse eight, Paul's saying, hey, this is one of the antidotes to growing callous towards the unbelieving world. Hank, how we doing?
- [01:08]
B
Doing well, Johnny. I actually, I want to clarify something from last episode. So for those who might be picking up in a asynchronous order, last week, Johnny asked me what my last meal would be before I died. And I answered honestly, and I answered off the cuff, and I rattled off a fairly lengthy Portillo's order, Don't interrupt. When I got home, I thought, honey, I made a mistake today on the podcast. She asked me what she was worried it was some theological, you know, thing I totally flummoxed. But in reality, no, you were subduing creation. I told her that Johnny asked what my last order was, and she said, what'd you say? And I told her, and she responded the order, I'm not doing it again. Go find the episode. She said, oh, no. And that is the moment I knew I was just sitting in trepidation the last several days waiting for this episode to drop. So, anyway, Johnny, it's starting to get hot.
- [02:02]
A
I don't know what episode this is of our show of dial in. I should probably find out. But for the 500th episode, we're driving to Chicago, and I'm gonna get you that dying meal.
- [02:13]
B
It would be $16.42. Yeah, come on.
- [02:16]
A
Not anymore.
- [02:16]
B
Not anymore.
- [02:17]
A
Well, hey, this episode is brought to you by the Master's University. If you or someone you know is interested in pursuing higher education would highly Encourage you to check out Masters Edu. That's where I went to college and studied accounting and finance. But grateful for their commitment, regardless of the field of study that you may pursue, to both Christ and Scripture. If you go to apply, you can use our unique code. Dial in to waive the application fee. All right, Hank, what I want to talk to you about in this episode is I want you to look at Titus 3 with me, and I want to talk about living for Jesus, living for Christ in a world that is often, you know, it seems like becoming much more hostile towards the truth of Christianity. You know, not long ago, America was a land of Christian values. You know, my grandpa was a car salesman his entire life. It was good for business, it was good for applications. If you said, hey, this guy's a Christian, it would be like, oh, you can trust him. It was advantageous. You could say that the winds were at the backs of Christians. It was something that was good for, you know, if you didn't go to church, it was almost frowned upon. But now those winds that were once blowing at our backs are now blowing steadily in our faces as kind of the world in which we live that used to maybe be indifferent over the claims of Christianity regarding God and morality and authority in scripture have become indignant over the prospect that an invisible God gets to shape my choices, you know, determine my sexuality. And I think as we turn on the news and jump in here, it's becoming more and more of a thing where you're going, man, my kids, the next generation, you know, the rest of our life, we are going to experience a different world than maybe our grandparents experienced.
- [03:51]
B
Absolutely. And I would say even if you jumped into, like, where we are in 2026, there's actually a lot of places in the country where it feels like, oh, actually, it's kind of coming cultural, culturally, it's coming back towards us in many ways. But your point more broadly is whether or not culture is coming towards us or away from us from a doctrinal or biblical truth that's actually not too dissimilar from the context in which Paul is writing a bunch of the New Testament to these churches, is that right?
- [04:16]
A
Yeah, for sure. And I think that as much as the culture might be coming back a certain way and there might be, like, a little bit of resurgence, I mean, statistically, once the baby boomer generation, you know, graduates into eternity, you have a largely unchurched post Christian world in the United States. And I want to give you just a flavor for this in our country to Read you kind of this cross examination by Rus Vaught. Rus Vaught, he was applying for the position of Deputy Director of Management and Budget and he's being cross examined by a senator. This is just, you know, 10 years ago. And he says, I understand. The senator says to Rus Vaught, he says, I understand that you're a Christian, but the United States is not composed of people that are just that. He says, I understand it's a majority religion, but there are others of different religions here and around the world. Do you think that those who are not Christians are really to be condemned? First of all, this is an appointment for a hearing for a guy, you know, getting elected to government offices. And he's asking the senator a theological question. And Rust responds and says, thank you for probing on that question. As a Christian, I believe that all individuals are made in the image of God and are worthy of dignity and respect regardless of their religious beliefs. I believe that as a Christian, that's how I should treat all individuals. And the senator responds and says, well, do you think your statement that you put into that publication that they do not know God because they rejected Jesus Christ, his son and stand condemned, do you really think that's respectful of other religions? And Russ just responded and said, okay, let me just explain. He says, I was writing a post and this is what Russ did. I wrote a post based on being a Christian for a Christian school, on the centrality of Jesus Christ and salvation. That's a real story. They had taken this paper that Russ had written article for this Christian school and he says, that's what they've taken out and now they're kind of waving it in his face. Do you really think that's respectful of other religions? And then the senator looks left, looks right during this cross examination and says, ladies and gentlemen, I would just say that this man is not what our country is all about. That senator's name was Bernie Sanders. He was votes away from becoming the most powerful man in the world. And he's saying that if you believe that Jesus Christ is the only way to God, you're not what our country is all about. I mean, we have multiple examples like this Walter Tutka, who was dismissed as a substitute teacher for reading a Bible verse in class over and over again. And I understand there's been kind of like a little bit of a reprieve from this, but, but our country operates sometimes in four year windows and so you don't know what's coming. But then depending on what city you live in, I mean, it could be totally post Christian. If you're in Portland or LA or in the Northeast. It's like I live in almost a European environment. There are churches of 30 to 50 people, not 300 to 500. I feel as if I'm the only Christian I know. And the world, the culture around me, is continuing to try to press me into its mold.
- [07:07]
B
Yeah, absolutely. I honestly don't have much to add other than to your point that even when you find yourself in these pockets and moments of reprieve, we're often only weeks, months, years away from it going completely the opposite direction. As quickly as it comes in, it can go out. And yet the long term effect of moving away from Scripture, moving away from Jesus is clear. Yeah.
- [07:28]
A
And I think too, like, even in our own environment, which is very. There's a lot of disparity and polarity sometimes as we look at the environment around us that is ungodly, wicked, drenched in sin, it's not just possible, but probable at times that Christians almost begin to look at the loss with a level of contempt. And there's like a level of bitterness of like, man, I'm growing and living in this hostile world. And you begin to look at unbelievers kind of through this furrowed brow and think, what are they doing? What are they? What's wrong with them? And. And I think in Titus 3, Paul writes to Christians living in times such as these. And he's going to tell Titus, you know, Titus was a Greek man on the Greek island of Crete, and he's living in an environment much like ours that's just kind of soaked in sexual immorality, perversity. It says that Cretans were liars, they're drunkards. No coincidence why Paul introduces God as the God who cannot lie because it's just the sea of paganism. And yet providentially, God had, in this environment of total depravity, had, you know, churches that were growing, and Titus is going there to elect and appoint elders in this environment. But I think right here in this passage, I just want to look at three truths that Paul kind of outlines for Titus of how we can live faithfully for Christ in a hostile world. Hey folks, when I was looking at various methods for digital transparency, one of the questions that I had was how. How much it would affect my Internet speed or if it would be super complicated to set up. One of the things I love about Accountable 2 you is that it was both very easy to set up for me personally and for my accountability partner and hasn't slowed down my Internet speed whatsoever. You know, if you want to walk in transparency, if you're a man or a woman and you want to have no secrets and want to live holy before the Lord, I would highly encourage you to get some form of digital transparency. And for me, I've been using accountable to you for over a year and I highly recommend it. If you want to join thousands of others wanting to walk in light and walk in freedom, I would encourage you to go to accountabletoyou.com dialin and you can use our unique code dial in to get 25% off your first year for both you and your family plan. I think Let me just read the first few verses because I think the first thing that Paul tells us is to remember who we were before Christ. You want to read just verses one through three of Titus, chapter three.
- [09:49]
B
Absolutely. So it begins. Remind them to be subject to rulers, to authorities, to be obedient and to be ready for every good work. To slander no one, to be peaceable, considerate, demonstrating all gentleness to all men. For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, enslaved to various lusts and pleasures, spending our life in malice and envy, despicable, hating one another.
- [10:10]
A
Yeah, Paul's just saying, hey, listen, if you're living in an environment of gross sexual sin, perversity, you feel like the environment's just kind of closing in on you. You first of all need to remember who you were. Paul says, for we also once. And then he gives these seven manners of sin that provide just this comprehensive and crushing analysis of our condition before Christ. This is super important. He gives seven words. He says, you once were foolish. That just means that the lights weren't on in your own mind. You were disobedient, you were a rebel, you disobeyed God, you didn't do what you ought to do, and you did what you wanted to do instead. You were deceived, he says here, which just is kind of the same idea is used in Plato's writing. For a star with no fixed anchor, just meaning. Like you are susceptible to anything that came your way, you were easy prey for deception. And even though you had no fixed anchor to truth, you were enslaved here for to all types of passions and desires. And he's just giving us again analysis of who we were before Christ. Foolish, disobedient, deceived, enslaved. Sin is not a side relationship, is always a master. He says you are malicious, meaning that you had a selfish disposition, you used hurtful and harmful words. He said you were Envious, which means that you wanted what other people had or you hated when they had what you had, because you wanted to be the only one that had what you had. And then he says, you are also hateful towards one another and just this vicious cycle of hatred. And Paul says, listen, if you're in an environment that is ungodly and you're tempted to look at them through the lens of bitterness and contempt and what are they thinking? He says, first of all, you need to remember who you were, because it's possible to sing Amazing Grace and yet never believe the ensuing line that saved a wretch like me. And if you don't believe you are a wretch, if you don't remember who you once were, you're going to look down on the world around you rather than viewing them with compassion that they don't know Christ. And I think this is really important. And Scripturally, Paul's saying, hey, this is one of the antidotes to growing callous towards the unbelieving world.
- [12:08]
B
Yeah, well, it's, it's a helpful reframe. And it just strikes me like the, the way we relate to the unbeliever is. I'm thinking about, we're studying First John Community group and walking through the. The blind and that they're just kind of stumbling around. They don't. There's no. The lights haven't been turned on to your point. But it's not a matter first of like morality or ethics. It's actually primarily like a matter of amnesia. Like we need to be reminded that. That that was our current state.
- [12:34]
A
Yeah, we were blind.
- [12:35]
B
Prior state.
- [12:36]
A
Yeah, we were blind. Spiritually speaking. Ephesians 4:18 says that we are. Were the Gentiles. Unbelievers are darkened in their understanding, excluded from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardness of their hearts. Meaning that unbelievers don't think clearly. And you know what? Neither did you or I before God saved us. Sometimes we look at the world and we observe the insanity of it all. And we just think, oh, if only they really knew that a baby was a baby within a womb, or that it's only right for a man and a woman to be together, then, you know, then they would understand. And while, yes, God's law is written upon the hearts of believers, one of the things that we see throughout scripture and throughout history is that the most educated sinners do the most damage. For example, who pushes the gay agenda? Who pushes abortion rights? Answer the brightest minds at Ivy League schools. Because the scholars of this world are oblivious to what is obvious to the person that has their life governed by a worldview that is drenched in Scripture. Increased education apart from Christ only fuels increased ignorance. And this is why Paul says, listen, no matter what they know, they can always be learning and never come to the knowledge of the truth. Their hearts and their minds are darkened. And what the world needs is to have their minds illuminated by the Spirit of God. And before God did a work in your life, that's exactly what you were.
- [14:00]
B
Well, and Paul's reminding us here, that should lead us to a state of humility, compassion, which then would be fueling kind of evangelistic urgency, if you have
- [14:10]
A
that right, and a tenderness of heart and tenderness of disposition, you know, like. And even the foolishness here doesn't just describe our bad works, you know, it just the foolishness could be our religious good works that we think we're doing to earn God's favor. It could be Luke 15, prodigal, or it could be Luke 18, Pharisee, God, I thank you. I'm not like other people. So maybe not all of these traits, the foolish, deceived, enslaved, were yours in actuality, but I think it was big that said, in potentiality they are yours. That describes you apart from the intervening grace of God. And I think we have to see yourself in light of the first few verses, that we were foolish and slave, disobedient, malicious, envious. Because if we don't see ourselves that way, as sinners apart from the intervening grace of God, then we're going to view God's grace as kind of like a birthright rather than something that's amazing. You know, Hell is full of people that affirmed Romans 3:23. Like all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God that were never gripped by the reality of their condition apart from Christ. And this is really important so that we don't grow. Don't grow callous. And I think as we remember who we were then. Secondly here in this passage, in order to not grow in contempt towards a hostile world, we have to remember now what God has done. We. Would you read verse four for us?
- [15:24]
B
Yeah. So it goes on and says, but when the kindness and affection of God our Savior appeared, he saved us not by works which we did in righteousness, but according to his mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit.
- [15:37]
A
Pause there for just a second. I think I love this. You know, Greg Gilbert talks about this in his book what is the Gospel But Paul says, you know, you were foolish, you are disobedient, enslaved. And then we get to this, this word in verse four, but. And Greg Gilbert says, the word but is small, but it has the power to sweep away everything that preceded it. Just like in Ephesians 2, you are dead in sins, children of wrath, but God, but God being rich in mercy. And so this is just, but the intervening and initiating grace of God. So you are all of these things. But when the kindness of God, our Savior and his love for mankind appeared, appeared being a big word there, meaning that God's love and his kindness are not things, they were revealed in the person of Jesus. And he saved us. And it says, not on the basis of deeds which we've done in righteousness, but according to his mercy. You know, one of the things that Paul, Paul's talking about here is one of the. One of the truths that keeps us tender is preaching to ourselves the reality that before we met Christ, it's not like we were in opposite end zones and we saw our profound and mutual need for each other and we ran to the middle. And maybe Jesus got there slightly faster than we did. No, one of the truths that keeps us just tender towards the lost is realizing that apart from the intervening and initiating grace of God, we are just like the world. Even like the way we think is a gift of God because we were hardened in our understanding apart from the grace of God. And so he's saying here, he saved us. You didn't do anything to deserve it. It says, he's done it. He watches us regeneration pouring out of the Holy Spirit. And it says this grace, His Holy Spirit, he poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior.
- [17:23]
B
And just to maybe punctuate, it's such an important point, but it just strikes me it is not that, you know, Jesus was in one end zone, we were in the other. Because if we were running to the 50 yard line and Jesus was running towards us, that implicitly makes like we would look to unbelievers and be like, come on, why didn't you run to the 50 yard line like we did totally. But realizing rightly that no, no, no, J rescued totally categorically changes the way we view others. And again, we're just compounding on the prior point, but that we did nothing to separate ourselves from the ungodly, apart from the work that Christ began in us.
- [17:59]
A
Yeah. And that's why I think the big idea here is it says he saved us not on the basis of deeds which we have done in Righteousness, but according to his mercy. And then it says, verse 5, by the washing of regeneration and renewing, that's new birth. That's when God transforms your heart of stone into a heart of flesh. That's a miracle. God doesn't do spring cleaning. He doesn't give you a new start. He gives you a new heart. You've heard me say that before. And he has to remake us, so it's not even.
- [18:23]
B
We're not going to the 50 yard line. We're not going from the one into the yard line. We're dead.
- [18:27]
A
We're dead in our sin.
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B
We're brought to life.
- [18:29]
A
And that's where all of the different spiritual analogies need to be used. I've shared the story with you before, but one time I was in an Uber with a guy and I asked him if he went to church anywhere and he said, hey, I'm Mormon. And. And I asked him the question, okay, what's the difference between what you believe as a Mormon and what I believe as a Protestant? And he responded. He said, let me tell you a story. He said, pretend I want to buy an iPad, or my daughter wants to buy an iPad, and I got an iPad here. He says, what you believe is that the Father would go up and pay it all $599, that the father secures it. He says, what I would say is, my daughter needs to go and work and work and work and work and save and save and save and save. And after she's done that and she slams $34 up on the counter at Apple, what I go and do is I pay the difference, meaning that you get as far as you can and then God will carry you the rest of the way. But the scripture doesn't just say that we're spiritually poor, but that we're spiritually bankrupt. We're spiritually dead. But the Mormon Church teaches that grace is an enabling power that allows men and women. This is the Bible dictionary, to take hold of eternal life and exaltation. Watch this. After they have expended their own best efforts. 2 Nephi 2523 says, we know that it is by grace we are saved after all we can do. But that's not what the scripture says. The scripture says you have to be reborn because you can't do anything to earn God's favor. You're darkened in your understanding. You're foolish, deceived, disobedient, enslaved. We are not saved by our works plus God's grace. But exclusively, the Bible says, by the grace and mercy of God. This is a miracle.
- [20:06]
B
I have nothing to add. Keep going.
- [20:08]
A
No, and then just in verse seven, it says so that being justified by his grace, we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. This is just kind of God's lavish kindness over and over again in the gospel of God, not just he doesn't only give us a new heart, he gives us a new home, a new family, he adopts us. But just moving on and we'll land the plane here. Again, how do we not grow in contempt? And even I would say in the. If you look at the digital space, you know, with Christians kind of just posting things of what's going on, you see riots, you see everything going on. Man, the world is so broken. What are they doing? You have to remember who you were. You have to remember that apart from the grace of God, you'd be exactly like them. You have to remember what Christ has done, that his love and his grace and his mercy transformed you. And other than the grace of God, you know you'd be lost. And then you have to do something else. In verse 8, you have to remember your calling. In verse 8, Paul says, this is a trustworthy statement. And concerning these things, I want you to speak confidently so that those who have believed God will be careful to engage in good deeds. These things are good and profitable for men, meaning that he wants you to engage in good deeds. And you just have to think that could be a number of different things, but at the top of the list would be the commission that our Lord Jesus Christ has given us. So I think a big idea here is it's going to be very hard for you not to grow in bitterness and frustration and contempt over the lost if you are not actively trying to engage them in love with the truth of the gospel. And I think it's often for people, it's easy for people to gather in a holy huddle, shake their fingers, shake their heads, talk about how dark the world is without going, all right, this is my mission field. You know, these are the people God has called me to reach. And unless you're doing that, I think inevitably you're just going to start to view people with a chip on your shoulder that don't know Jesus, and you'll confuse the mission field with your enemy.
- [22:09]
B
Yeah, well, it's a personally convicting point. I would just say, like, we're blessed. We go to a church that is not perfect but has many of the hallmarks of a healthy place. And we're grateful for the teaching we're grateful to be under God's word for spiritual shepherds. And then by the grace of God, much of my family saved. Amazing positive influences. And then I work in kind of a unique. I work in a Christian financial environment. It's kind of a unique place. And just recently, I was thinking that a couple weeks ago, I found myself at a dinner with a bunch of guys in, you know, secular private equity. And it was such.
- [22:42]
A
What do you mean by secular?
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B
As opposed to next episode, Faith Aligned Private equity. If you want to come work for me, let me know. We are hiring. But practically, I was sitting around this table and just thinking, like, man, it's been. It was personally convicting how long it had been since I sat around a table with guys who would not have had any profession of faith. And they were looking at me like I had three eyes when I was telling them what I do. And it was like, you're married, you have kids, what are you doing? And it's just such a catalyzing force for me to think. Like, the same grace that saved me is the grace that needs to send me into the places that need to hear it.
- [23:22]
A
Yeah. Yeah. Every unbeliever you interact with is an opportunity for you to love someone with the truth of Jesus Christ, to share of what God has done. And by nature, I think as the world grows darker, people start kind of putting up their hedges around their family. You know, I gotta protect my family. We gotta. And there's a right place for that, right? You wanna protect yourself. There's wisdom protecting your child's innocence. One of the things I tell, you know, I wanna tell my kids more and more as they grow is just, hey, we are here on a mission. And if you don't view that with excitement, then you're just gonna be constantly despairing that the world seems like it's getting worse. But again, these are the days God has put us in so that we would be able to shine bright in a world of darkness and we would be salty in a world that's decaying.
- [24:15]
B
Well, thanks for unpacking that, Johnny.
- [24:16]
A
Yeah, thanks so much, Hank.