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Dial In with Jonny Ardavanis
Song of Solomon's 10 Keys to Love, Sex & Marriage | Christian Relationship Principles
00:38:15
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- [00:00]
Host
There's a section in the Bible reading plan that when I was younger, I skipped. And not because I didn't think it was the word of God, but because I felt almost like. I don't know, like even we talk about wisdom literature. We say, you know, Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Solomon. But you've looked at the life of King Solomon. This is a guy. I mean, tell me if my numbers are wrong. 300 wives, 700 concubines. He had a lot of women in his life. And yet, ironically, the one book in the Bible that is dedicated to romance is penned by the guy that maybe abused the subject the most.
- [00:37]
Todd Fletcher
Exactly. In Christian circles, oftentimes we don't talk about sex or intimacy because, you know, it's just inappropriate. Christians, sometimes.
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Host
It's not noble or something.
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Todd Fletcher
Yeah, it's not noble. It's kind of. Some people see it as inherently dirty. It's just a thing that. That's what the world does. But who created sex? You know, God created sex. It's a gift that the Lord has given within the confines of marriage.
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Host
You've written extensively on it. You did your dissertation on it. You've condensed that into basically 10 keys.
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Todd Fletcher
Yes. Yeah.
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Host
To life, sex, romance, that are a derivative of King Solomon's wisdom. Talk to me a little bit about it and then let's dive into those ten keys. Todd, thanks for sitting down. Todd, before we get going, briefly introduce yourself. You're a pastor. Give me the name of your church and where you're located.
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Todd Fletcher
So my name's Todd Fletcher and I've been pastoring at Chapel in the hills church for 12 years. I'm in Golden, Colorado, and our church is about 8,500 foot in the mountains and so really cool place to be.
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Host
Is it really? Can you breathe when you're preaching?
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Todd Fletcher
Yes, I've gotten used to it. But it is funny for an oxygen mask. We actually have people that visit and they get alt sickness.
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Host
Yeah, I bet.
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Todd Fletcher
So that's an interesting part of our church.
- [01:56]
Host
Okay, so I wanted to talk to you, Todd, because of some work you did on your dissertation. I'll get to the substance of that in a moment. I've been doing a Bible reading plan since I was maybe high school or junior high, you know, and there's a section in the Bible reading plan that when I was younger, I skipped. And not because I didn't think it was the word of God, but because I felt almost like, I don't know, like even we talk about wisdom literature, we Say, you know, Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Solomon. Yeah. And Song of Solomon is, is what I want to talk to you today. Solomon in particular, you know, it's a book about romance. Sometimes that whole book, Song of Solomon gets, you know, said. It's an allegory of the relationship between Jesus and his church. And you would actually go in a different direction saying, no, we're going to employ the literal, grammatical, plain sense. Yeah, plain sense kind of interpretation to it. But you've looked at the life of King Solomon. This is a guy. I mean, tell me if my numbers are wrong. 300 wives, 700 concubines. He had a lot of women in his life. And yet, ironically, the one book in the Bible that is dedicated to romance is penned by the guy that maybe abused the subject the most.
- [03:11]
Todd Fletcher
Exactly.
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Host
And in our environment, I haven't really ever heard anybody teach through it. It's kind of like if you go to a marriage conference, you're gonna bring in a guy that does it. You know, it's like that, he does it. It's just, you know, you've written extensively on it. You did your dissertation on it. You've condensed that into basically 10 keys to life, sex, romance, that are a derivative of King Solomon's wisdom. Talk to me a little bit about it and then let's dive into those 10 keys.
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Todd Fletcher
Absolutely. So I was just like you. The reason that I wanted to do Song of Solomon is because it was a kind of a no go book. And as I was thinking about it, I was thinking about Solomon as well as just a man who has always intrigued me because Solomon, like you just said, he's someone who had a thousand kind of wives, concubines, he married a ton of princesses, which was forbidden in the Old Testament law. He did things that God did not say, but to say, to do. But also he wrote more on the subject of sex and romance than anyone else. And so when I talked to Nathan Buzenitz about this, that was his big thing, was when he had thought about marriage. What was the biggest sections on marriage? It was Ephesians, Ephesians 5.
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Host
Dean of the seminary for those who don't know Nathan Buzenitz, the man.
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Todd Fletcher
Yeah. So when I started to do this, he said, you know, Song of Solomon is one of those books that's neglected and it has been off limits for a while.
- [04:37]
Host
Yeah. So interesting. Okay, so I want to dive into these keys and I want to move through them and I'll put the link in the notes. If you want to consume each of these are their own sermon, basically. Right. And you can consume these in greater detail. I just kind of want to touch on them. Hit me with that first key of kind of what Solomon writes about regarding love, sex, romance, marriage.
- [04:57]
Todd Fletcher
Absolutely. So the first key is really rejecting the sins of your parents. And the reason this is obviously important is when you think about Solomon's childhood, think about what he grew up with, you know, his mother being Bathsheba. And so his mother being Bathsheba, he lost his oldest brother, obviously, as a consequence from what God did with David's oldest son, with Bathsheba. And so you look at David's harem, which was again, forbidden by the law, but David had many wives. And then also you see him following in that, where he has a large harem and harems is how you got. That's how you gained power. Right. Because those were various kind of treaties that you would sign with other kings or different peace agreements. And so he continues in those same sins, but he continues to actually build upon his father's issues. And so when we think about our parents, when we think about the things that we adopt into our lives, oftentimes we just assume the mistakes of our parents without being critical. Right. We just kind of, this is how I was raised. This is how I do things. But in reality, the Scripture should inform how we should establish our marriages and our lives. So rather than just repeating what you saw from your parents, going to the word of God, looking for wisdom, and thinking about what we can learn from what Solomon has written on wisdom. So that's really the first focus, is evaluating the things that you received that were good, but also thinking through the things that were not good, that were not wise, that were not biblical, and then making those decisions based on what the scriptures say.
- [06:27]
Host
Yeah. And you mentioned that you're just not doomed to repeat the failures of your parents. And so kind of like people feel like maybe this shackle to, you know, this is who we are. You know, my dad did this. I'm doomed to do this. And with Solomon, you're going, hey, he learned this lesson in the furnace of difficulty. Right. Okay, so secondly, here, hit us with that second key. Learn from the life of Solomon.
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Todd Fletcher
Yeah, so when you think about choosing a godly spouse, a fascinating part of Solomon's story is when you think about the first wife that we're introduced to. It's actually in First Kings, chapter three, before he prays for wisdom, he marries Pharaoh's daughter, which again, would be a pagan wife, a Wife that was forbidden. So he marries Pharaoh's daughter, and then he asks for wisdom. But there's an interesting woman even before this, which is the Shunammite in First Kings and the Shulamite in Song of Solomon. Only one letter difference in the Hebrew, and that was a territorial change in how they would spell that phrase. And so when you think about the Shunammite, this was this most beautiful virgin in the land. And this is the woman that came to warm David as he was dying. And then Solomon's brother wanted to marry that woman. And then you hear Solomon tell his mom, Bathsheba, because he asks Bathsheba to go to Solomon to ask for this lady's hand in marriage. And he says, why don't you just give him the entire kingdom? Because this is a claim on the throne. It's a part of his harem. So this woman, the Shunammite, again, was the most beautiful virgin in the land that would give Solomon power and a claim to the throne or his brother. And then when you go into Song of Solomon, it talks about the Shulamite and this being either one of his first brides or maybe his first bride, and it talks about on their wedding day, he receives his crown. So when you're thinking about this woman, again, this was a thing that I worked through and I processed through, and there's actually others who have come to this conclusion. But in thinking about that woman and then the immediate forbidden woman that comes in First Kings, chapter three, this question of godly spouse marrying someone that God has allowed you to marry where you're not sinning against what his word has said. So we're commanded to marry someone who is a believer, that we should not be yoked with someone who is dead in their trespasses and sins if we're a believer. And so this idea of choosing a godly spouse, I always tell people it's the second most important decision you'll make. The first is obviously following Christ, but the second is who you're going to marry and following the wisdom principles that God has laid out.
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Sponsor Representative
This episode is brought to you by one of our ministry partners, the Master's University. One of the things I love about TMU is their commitment to Christ and scripture. And not only that, they offer 150 different fields of study, all that are established upon a biblical worldview.
- [09:17]
Host
This is so important, regardless of the
- [09:18]
Sponsor Representative
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- [09:34]
Host
I would encourage you to check out
- [09:35]
Sponsor Representative
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- [09:38]
Host
And when you do, you can even
- [09:39]
Sponsor Representative
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- [09:54]
Host
You mention here and you have it first, Kings 11, 4. When Solomon was old, his wives turned away his heart after other gods.
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Todd Fletcher
Yes.
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Host
Meaning that the person you marry, and this is your second key. First was, you don't have to repeat the sins of your past. Secondly is choose a godly spouse. The person you marry shapes the direction and trajectory of your life. And Solomon was fascinated with attraction, with beauty, with power. And in the end, he paid the price for kind of for marrying women. That the scripture's very clear. Turned his heart away.
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Todd Fletcher
Exactly.
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Host
And so this is obviously so important. I mean, I tell people that, and I heard that growing up, this is the most important decision you make outside of the decision to follow Christ.
- [10:38]
Todd Fletcher
Exactly.
- [10:39]
Host
Okay. Third, give us kind of that third key that Solomon either exhibits from maybe mistake, or in written scripture about thinking about life, sex, romance, marriage.
- [10:55]
Todd Fletcher
So we looked. The first two keys deals with his life, which is contradictory to his teaching.
- [11:01]
Host
Yeah.
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Todd Fletcher
And then in the part two of this, you think about the next key is 3, 4, and 5. This is taken from what I've called his other writings, which is Ecclesiastes and Proverbs. And so when you think about Proverbs, Proverbs actually has a lot to say about sex and romance.
- [11:16]
Host
Yeah.
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Todd Fletcher
And in that first area, when you think, when you start going through Proverbs, I remember in my reading plan, one of my reading plans, I read Proverbs continually, over and over again. And the thing you notice about Proverbs is there's a lot about sexual immorality. There's a lot about sexual deviance. And when you think about Solomon's life, obviously there was a lot of sexual deviance in his life. And so this idea of beware the forbidden woman, that's in Ecclesiastes over and over again, as well as Proverbs, Proverbs 5, 3, 4, for the lips of the forbidden woman drip honey. But in the end, she is bitter as wormwood. So he recognizes that when you reject God's will, God's law, it only leads to destruction. And in fact, even in Proverbs he says, enjoy the wife of your youth. Youth, right. Be satisfied with her, not with other women. Don't go out and cast your seed in public in the sense in the streets. Stay at home where God has called you to be. So this avoid sexual sin. And obviously we're in a culture where sexual deviance, immorality is championed and you think about pornography and all these types of things and men have justified in their own mindsets that if I keep this in my room and I keep it in darkness and no one ever sees that I'll be fine. And but again, that's foolishness. That's the way of destruction. And so God would call us to keep that within the bedroom, to keep the wedding bed unstained, right? To keep it untainted, unblemished. And this idea of how are you preserving yourself, protecting yourself when it comes to sex. And again, the beautiful thing about the gospel is even if you've made mistakes in that area, obviously God can restore and redeem that. But a commitment as a follower of Jesus Christ that I'm going to pursue wisdom because wisdom is better than jewels, it's better than gold.
- [13:04]
Host
Yeah. And that's a big thrust of Proverbs 5, 6, 7. You know, he says, you're going to come to the end of your life and say how I have hated instruction. And yes, God redeems, he forgives. But then there's a legitimate cost, right, of both David and Solomon living in the sexual immorality. And so very important you have rejecting your parents sins. Choose a godly spouse. Big three here is avoid sexual sin. It never, you know, it over promises and never, you know, fulfills what it's promising. Okay, number four.
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Todd Fletcher
So this kind of goes on the heels of that, right. Be faithful to your spouse. And I do a lot of premarital counseling. We have a lot of college students at our church. And I tell people it starts now. Being faithful to your spouse starts now. Even before your marriage. You're married because you want to make sure that you're thinking about one day I could be married and how can I demonstrate faithfulness? And now. So being faithful to your spouse. Proverbs 5, 18. Rejoice in the wife of your youth. Always be satisfied, intoxicated with her. And so this idea of, in some Christian circles, you know, sex is. We don't talk about it. We want to avoid this. This is not appropriate conversation. But I tell those people, well, where, where are your Children, where are people going to hear about sex? They're going to hear about sex in the world, that they're going to be educated by tv, they're going to be educated by the programs they watch, by the social media, by various content that they're consuming. And so sex is a beautiful thing, but this happens within the confines of marriage. And this idea of being faithful to your spouse is that you are committed to one person. This is the two flesh becoming one. And faithfulness builds trust. It builds deeper relationship. I've been married 16 years, I've got four children. And one of the things that my wife and I are amazed at is the longer we're married, the more enjoyment we find in intimacy, the more enjoyment we find together the life that we're building. And there's trust that continues to grow through the years. And then you get to. You learn about each other. You're continually exploring each other's joys and each other's passions and even weaknesses and insecurities. And so all of these things are what make life incredibly valuable. And so, yeah, this commitment, but that's built on trust. And trust is earned. Trust is something that comes with time. But the more you trust each other, the more vulnerable you can be towards each other.
- [15:31]
Host
I love that you said the number five here that you have is to pursue excellence together. This was interesting. If I'm thinking about keys to romance and marriage, I don't think I would have put off the top of my head, pursue excellence together. But what do you mean by that? And where in Scripture are you deriving that idea?
- [15:50]
Todd Fletcher
So the chief end of man is to glorify God and enjoy him forever. From the Westminster Confession, the Shorter Catechism. Whatever you do, do to the glory of God in marriage, marriage can be an amazing worshipful event. Right? This idea of we're living sacrifices, we're sacrifices that our lives are producing a pleasing aroma to God, or according to Romans 12. And so a marriage can be an amazing act of worship because you're following God's design. God has given me a man, a helpmate, and my wife, who is supportive, she's submissive in a godly way, like Ephesians 5. And so Proverbs 31. We know the Proverbs 31, woman. And it's fascinating because as you look at the Proverbs 31, woman. This woman really is the ideal of excellence. Proverbs 31, 10. An excellent wife who can find she is far more precious than jewels. So when you find an excellent wife, as a man Especially as a husband, your goal is to continue to sanctify her in the Word, to continue to push her towards excellence. And this Proverbs 31. Woman is obviously an amazing picture of when a woman is walking in wisdom and walking according to God's Word, she is more precious than anything else that you can get in this world. Besides, obviously, our relationship with Christ. But that's the beauty of marriage, is that marriage points to our relationship with Christ. And so when we're thinking about our walk, we want to pursue excellence in our relationship with Christ. And so in our marriage, that's where this point has come out. So great relationships are partnerships towards excellence. They're moving in the same direction to glorify God.
- [17:27]
Host
That's good. You say here that the best couples grow together. They don't just live together, meaning there's an objective in your marriage which fuels this commitment because there's something that God has put in front of you that you're both wanting to move towards together. Okay, you have part three. We got six through 10 left keys from Song of Solomon. You're kind of transitioning here from his general writings to the book of Song of Solomon. Hit us with that sixth key that Solomon provides. Yeah.
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Todd Fletcher
So again, Song of Solomon is the Song of Songs. It is a poetic song. It's a song of emotion. It's a song of feeling. And so when we think about emotion and feeling, we talk about Agape love, which is, of course, a committed love. But Eros is also a type of love. And when you think about affection, passion, kind of this overwhelming joy of being with your spouse, we want to celebrate that type of relationship. That's a unique relationship when it's within the confines of marriage. And so when we think about our wedding day, oftentimes when I'm talking, especially to Christians, especially those who have taken Dave Ramsey's course on Financial Peace University, that are very kind of money oriented, money conscious, they don't want to spend a lot of money on their wedding day. They want to go as cheap as possible. I tell people the wedding is an amazing event that should be kept special, not only when it comes to saving yourself from marriage, if that's possible. And again, some people haven't saved themselves, and God can restore that. God can redeem that. But I tell people, you can commit to that now, at whatever point you are, if you want to get married and you're pursuing excellence, you're pursuing a worshipful relationship you can commit to. We will stay celibate until we're married. We Will not have sex outside of marriage, but also on the wedding day size. On the celebration. You see in Song of Solomon, they make a huge deal of their wedding.
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Host
This is your sixth key.
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Todd Fletcher
Yeah, this is my sixth.
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Host
Make your wedding day special.
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Todd Fletcher
Yeah, make your wedding day special. It's an amazing event. And so I encourage people spend money on your wedding, not where you go into debt and you're now violating other wisdom principles. But this is a celebration. This is one of the biggest days of your lives. And especially for young girls, they dream about this day. And I think it's very sad when men rob their wives of that day to save money or they violate the purity that they should be pursuing because they can't wait until their wedding day. And so that is the sixth key, is when you think about Song of Solomon, the book begins with this celebration of the wedding.
- [20:02]
Host
Yeah. And you said something here, that marriage is more than paperwork. It's more than a legally binding contract. It is a celebration that's something sacred and wonderful. There's a reverence to it, like a sobriety to it, a seriousness, you know, but it should be joyful. And. Yeah, I thought that was a great observation. Okay, keep going. Number seven.
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Todd Fletcher
So this one, I need to define courtship, but take courtship seriously. I have nothing against dating, but whether it's dating or courtship, whatever word you use, the biggest thing is that you date in order to make a decision of whether this type of person or if this person could be my spouse, in my opinion, because the common refrain in Song of Solomon is Song of Solomon. You see this many times, but just for example, in 2, 7, do not stir up or awaken love until it's time when you open that Pandora's box of love before you're ready to be married or you're in a state that you could actually be married, I think oftentimes that leads to broken hearts. One of my mentors, his name's Monte Stevenson, he has three daughters, and he used to use a visual aid where he would take a red paper and a green paper, and he would take superglue, and he would put them together and then have them rip them apart. And he would show that a little bit of the green was still on the red and a little bit of the red was still on the green. And every time we give our heart away to someone and we go all in with someone who's not our spouse, there's a risk there, because you're uniting hearts, you're awakening love. And so, again, whether you date before you're 18 or whatever that is. My biggest caution in this area is to make sure that you take dating seriously or courtship seriously because you are giving your heart away. Your heart is being attached to another person. And so strong foundations create strong relationships. So if, you know, we're serious about trying to uncover, trying to determine whether this is someone that I could spend the rest of my life with, it's not just fun. You're actually trying to make a decision. Yes.
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Host
Yeah. And so there's a balance there. Yes. You don't want to be like, you know, like, am I going to marry you?
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Todd Fletcher
Yeah.
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Host
Every day. And we've. I talk about that because sometimes in a Christian environment, it's all serious.
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Todd Fletcher
Yes.
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Host
No joy.
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Todd Fletcher
Yes.
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Host
And then at other times, and you've been a part of those environments, it's just, it's flippant and cavalier and we kind of, we are physically unwise and intimate before we should be. And so.
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Todd Fletcher
Exactly.
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Host
I think there's this, there's biblical principles on both parts. But you say, don't stir up. Solomon says this, don't stir up or awaken love until it's time. Meaning be wise. Right. Like be wise.
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Todd Fletcher
And I grew up in a non Christian household and my parents are both on their third marriages. And one of the things that I was encouraged to as a non believer in a non believing home is have fun.
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Host
Yeah.
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Todd Fletcher
Go out and live life and sleep with as many people as you want so you can learn who you like. And obviously that's not what the Bible says. And so I think this is kind of the idea is again, like, you brought up a good point. It's not about not having fun. Dating should be fun. It should be enjoyable. But guarding our heart to where if this goes somewhere, I'm in a place that I could allow it to go somewhere versus I'm just giving my heart away and allowing it to be broken over and over again. So yeah, I think they're definitely very debated issue on, on.
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Host
No, I think it's really important to, to be wise there. And it's. I always ask people just candidly, like, how often do you think you're going to be content kissing your girlfriend? Like you start, you know, if you do that for. Because you could go, well, it's kissing wrong. And it's a different episode, different time.
- [23:48]
Todd Fletcher
Yes. Yeah.
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Host
But I don't know anybody that's kissed for four years, you know, and that, that hasn't cross the line or. And so to your point, it's like, hey, once you open that door.
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Todd Fletcher
Yes.
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Host
It is hard. And no one. It's hard to go backwards or stay the same.
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Todd Fletcher
Right.
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Host
Because there's an on. God created on ramps physically for the marriage union. Which kind of leads us to number eight, which you've called enjoy marital intimacy as a key. Talk to me about that one.
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Todd Fletcher
Yeah, so I mentioned this a little bit earlier with Proverbs 5, but in Christian circles, oftentimes we don't talk about sex or intimacy because it's just inappropriate. Christians don't talk about it.
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Host
It's not noble or something.
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Todd Fletcher
Yeah, it's not noble. It's kind of. Some people see it as inherently dirty. It's just a thing that. That's what the world does. But who created sex? You know, God created sex. It's a gift that the Lord has given within the confines of marriage. And as you know, it's. As you're a pastor, I'm a pastor. When we're doing marriage counseling, when we're talking to people whose marriages have kind of hit the ro, a really easy question we can ask is, how is your intimate life? How is your sex life? And oftentimes, if not every time, when they're ready to get divorced or things are so bad that they just need counseling help, usually, if not always, there is no intimacy, because that's kind of a thermometer of the health of a marriage. Not always. But obviously, if that's not present in a marriage, you're actually violating 1 Corinthians 7, which it says, you shouldn't go for a time, a long time, without being intimate because you give a foothold to the devil. And so I actually tell couples, if they're not being intimate for a very long period of time, they're violating Scripture, which is actually sin, and they're actually causing their spouse to fall into deeper and deeper temptation and lust. And so in this gift that God has given us, song of Solomon 4:10 says, how beautiful is your love? How much better is your love than wine? And every married couple loves quoting Song of Solomon to each other. You know, the picture of the woman, you know, your teeth are like flocks of go. You know, ewes, and your hair is like goats, and your nose is like the Tower of Babel. All these different things. Right? So schnauz. Yeah, exactly.
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Host
Right.
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Todd Fletcher
So we love quoting that. But you think about that intimate scene. I mean, they're just beholding and enjoying each other's bodies, and it's recorded in Scripture.
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Host
It's just not at all what you'd expect from the Bible. In the context that, you know, I come from. Grow up and. For sure, yeah. But there's this. There's a joy. You should enjoy it. It's a gift. And obviously, when you're talking about physical intimacy, there's seasons of time where maybe something physical limits someone from being able to have it.
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Todd Fletcher
Exactly, yes.
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Host
Sickness, inability. That's a good point. But that. Yeah, that's a gift from God. I think Paul Tripp says it in his book that we were sexual before we were sinful. Like, God made this. It's a good thing. When God said, everything is tov.
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Todd Fletcher
Ma.
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Host
Ov.
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Todd Fletcher
Yes.
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Host
You know, it included the sexual intimacy between. Big idea here, a man and a woman. In the. In the context of marriage.
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Todd Fletcher
Yes.
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Host
Okay. Number nine, Work through marital problems is what you have written here. Talk. Talk to me about that.
- [27:12]
Todd Fletcher
So in song of Solomon, 5, 6. I opened to my beloved, but my beloved had turned and gone. This is one of the dream sequences where her beloved has come a long way. He's come from a journey, and he's ready to be intimate with his wife. But she says, I've already gotten ready for bed. I've already taken a shower. I've already brushed my teeth. I'm not ready for this. And basically the door is locked and he can't get in. And then she realizes that she missed an opportunity. So she goes out, opens the door, but he's gone. And this is just. This picture of here is a marital problem where these little foxes that spoil the vine. That's another huge key to Song of Solomon, which is catch the foxes that spoil the vine. These little foxes that don't seem like big issues in marriage. It's just, you know. Yeah, I've denied intimacy for a couple weeks, a couple months. It's no big deal. Or it's other things. It's not maybe not just intimacy. It could be many things that happen in marriage where just little issues that we allow to continue to cause problems, we don't address it. And I tell young couples, or even couples that have been together for a long time, it could be things like taking out the trash, you know, an expectation that you're gonna take out the trash, and that's not my responsibility. Or I'll do the dishes and that's not your responsibility. Or even taking the kids to school or the hospital. In our house, we have a dog that. My wife's not a big dog person, but I got the dog, but I'm busier than her. It's a form of rebellion. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But I'll have to take the dog to the vet. And she's frustrated that. So there's so many things that come up in marriage that if you've been married, you know, these things happen all the time. But catching those foxes by the tail and dealing with them. And so here you have an intimacy issue, and she seeks to go resolve it, and eventually it is resolved. But arguments happen and conflict happens. And in marriage, we know that conflict is a way to be sanctified. It's a way to grow, because we're continually learning how to communicate better with each other. And so being married 16 years with my wife Glorie, now, we know each other so well that we know when there's conflict and when issues arise. And as we know from scripture, from James, that we have to deal with these things before the sun goes down. Be angry, do not sin, but don't let the sun go down on your anger. And so there's a time limit. And my wife and I, 16 years ago, committed to this. We will never go to sleep angry. We'll always talk to each other. Even if we can't resolve it. We're gonna do our best to resolve it, and we're gonna put a timeline and a game plan on how to deal with this issue. And by God's grace alone, we have done that through our entire marriage.
- [30:10]
Host
When I got married, I thought that that verse meant we had to handle the conflict before we went to bed. It's one thing to not be angry, but it's another thing to hash out every detail. So Katie and I are like our first year of marriage. We're like 2am, you know, can't go to bed until you know exactly what I meant. And I know exactly what you meant and when was said. What was said, when was said. But, yeah, just that spirit of love, not going to bed, angry at each other, bitterness. And you said here that conflict, well, strengthens love. Like, this is something that's normal in every relationship.
- [30:42]
Todd Fletcher
I say this to my elders. I don't trust you until we've been in a fight. And I don't mean a physical fight, but I mean.
- [30:47]
Host
But that too, yes.
- [30:48]
Todd Fletcher
Like, I don't really know someone until yet. There's a fight club in elder rooms. But anyways. But, you know, it's like you don't really know someone until you've gone through conflict.
- [30:56]
Host
Conflict, yeah.
- [30:57]
Todd Fletcher
And so with my wife Glorie, it's amazing because now conflict is an opportunity for growth.
- [31:04]
Host
Your last one here that you have is number 10 to create a new life together. Solomon, 8:7 says many waters cannot quench love. Just talk about that big idea of Solomon gives this instruction that there should be a vibrancy and an excitement about building a life together. Touch on that.
- [31:24]
Todd Fletcher
Yeah. So my good friend Harry Walls, I think you've heard of him.
- [31:28]
Host
Yeah, I know Harry.
- [31:30]
Todd Fletcher
Harry has had an impact on me when talking about his wife and how they have continued to build this amazing life together. Monty, my mentor, he's been married for almost 50 years with his wife Rita. And they've been an example to me of how beautiful life can be when you're enjoying it together as a journey together. And so, yeah, many waters cannot quench love. Think about all the waters that a married couple goes through over five decades. One of the men in my church, his name is Gene Rouse, he's been married 60 years and his wife just died. And he was a charter member of our church. And I walked with him through his wife's death, and as I was looking at him say goodbye to her, her name was Joanne. It's amazing all that they have gone through. And how can we live. How can Jean live without Joanne? And this is where, through many older couples that have been married for decades, oftentimes you see one dies and then the next one dies pretty quickly thereafter because it's almost like their heart. Yeah.
- [32:38]
Host
Literally a broken heart.
- [32:39]
Todd Fletcher
Literally a broken heart. And so we look at that and we think about how sad that is. And it is sad, but it's also so amazing as well to see those types of marriages where they have created a new life together. So thinking about the future and enjoying the future together, dreaming together. And as you go through each of these stages of life. So I have four kids, 12, 10, 7 and 3. And we've been in diapers for 13 years, and we're now out of diapers after 13 years.
- [33:16]
Host
Wow.
- [33:16]
Todd Fletcher
And you think about. It's kind of sad, actually.
- [33:19]
Host
It's budget relieving.
- [33:20]
Todd Fletcher
It's budget relieving, but it's kind of. And who likes it?
- [33:23]
Host
100% sad.
- [33:24]
Todd Fletcher
Yeah. But it's like, yeah, you're not doing diapers anymore. And now we're sending my youngest son, Owen to school and realizing this is just a taste of what's coming, of being empty nesters and so enjoying where God has you. And as you know, we're so future oriented. We're always thinking about the next goal, but godliness with contentment is great gain. And so finding contentment in every stage of marriage, every stage of life, enjoying where God has you dreaming about the future but recognizing none of us are promised tomorrow.
- [33:58]
Host
Yeah, it's so good. You know, I think about that with Katie just wanting to and Solomon talks about this in Ecclesiastes, right? Like, hey, enjoy life. You know, and there's this element where we're stewards of the time that we, you know, we have to redeem the time and we live a life of urgency to a degree because people need the Lord. But then we're also given the gift of life to enjoy with our spouse and to create a life together. So I think that's so important. You just kind of couple final thoughts here. And if you're interested in looking more at this content, I'll include the links for all the sermons in greater detail. And we're just kind of going high level here, but you say something here that I want you just to touch on as we close that, you know, Solomon had all of the wisdom, right? We say he was the wisest man in the Old Testament, and yet he spurned, you know, much of his own wisdom and that eventually led his life to disaster. But this final takeaway you've written is romance without wisdom becomes chaos, and romance with wisdom becomes joy. Talk about that. Just that final line. Romance without wisdom becomes chaos, and romance with wisdom becomes joy.
- [35:06]
Todd Fletcher
So I argued that Ecclesiastes 7:25 is really the key to Solomon. It says, I turned my heart to know and to search out and to seek wisdom and the scheme of things, to know wickedness, of folly and the foolishness that is madness. It's kind of an interesting statement. I sought to know wisdom, folly and wickedness and the resulting madness that comes from a life that is outside of wisdom, outside of God's will, outside of God's will, outside of what Solomon himself wrote. So I think Solomon as he's written Ecclesiastes and Song of Solomon, he's looking back on his life saying, I knew wisdom, I knew what I should have done, but I also wanted to test wisdom with wickedness, folly, and that resulting madness. And so his life is one giant test of wickedness, folly. And these women in 1 Kings 11 turn his heart from Yahweh. So his heart is not fully, it says, not fully devoted to Yahweh. And so this man did everything that we in our flesh wish we could do, have all the wealth, all the power, all the women, all these types of things for men. And obviously in debased, fleshy minds, he does all those things, he practices all those things. And as he's looking back as the preacher of Ecclesiastes, he's saying there's only one thing that's necessary at the end of Ecclesiastes is to fear God and keep his commandments. So what I mean by that is when you're thinking about romance with wisdom, that is a picture of Christ and his church. This is a picture of walking as God has created us to walk. And Christ and his church, the marriage, the eternal marriage between his bride and the king of kings is truly really the substance. That is the substance of life. But marriage is a shadow. Marriage is a shadow pointing to that. And so when you break the picture, when you go outside of God's word and you start pursuing your own passions, your own pleasures, especially in sex and sexual immorality, and breaking all of these principles for wisdom, what will happen is you will have resulting madness. Your life will be mad. It will be a broken life. And I come from a family of brokenness. And as far back as I can go in the Fletcher line, there's divorce and disownment, divorce and disownment. And so by God's grace, he saved me. And I was able to see what the Bible says about marriage. And for 16 years, I've been walking in that path of my wife. Not perfectly, but persistently. At least we're trying. And I can tell you it brings so much more joy to walk in God's ways and be committed to his path.
- [37:58]
Host
Well, that's so helpful, Todd. Thanks for the work you've put into the subject and appreciate the insights you've brought today from the life of Solomon. So thank you.
- [38:06]
Todd Fletcher
Well, thank you for having me. It's a blessing.