Why Religion Can’t Save You: What Does ‘Born Again’ actually mean? Pt. II

Summary

Episode Summary: "Why Religion Can’t Save You: What Does ‘Born Again’ Actually Mean? Pt. II"

Podcast: Dial In with Jonny Ardavanis
Host: Jonny Ardavanis
Date: March 31, 2026
Guest/Co-host: Hank

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Overview

In this episode, Jonny Ardavanis and co-host Hank continue their in-depth exploration of John 3, focusing on Jesus’s encounter with Nicodemus and the central doctrine of being “born again.” The discussion centers on why religion and external acts cannot save, the necessity of inner transformation, and what it means to be born of "water and the Spirit." The conversation weaves biblical exegesis, personal anecdotes, and analogies to illuminate the heart of the Gospel and underscore the absolute need for a miraculous work of God in salvation.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Human Heart and the Need for Rebirth

• Opening Theme (00:00)
  Jonny sets the stage: "The person next to you is not your greatest problem... Your own sinful heart is your greatest problem. Truly, Truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."
• Our core issue is not external circumstances but internal depravity, echoing Jeremiah 17:9 and the holistic biblical teaching on sin.

The Gospel as Mystery and Investigation (03:00–04:50)

• Jonny draws parallels between popular detective series and the Gospels:
  • The Gospels aren’t disjointed stories but form a captivating, investigative narrative about Jesus’ identity.
  • “Who exactly is this person Jesus Christ?” is the driving question, both then and now.

Jesus and Nicodemus: The Death of Legalism (07:13–08:30)

• Nicodemus, though the epitome of religious achievement, lacks assurance and genuine spiritual life.
• Jesus’s message is “a shattering of all religiosity,” stressing that no degree of external religious observance can secure a place in God’s kingdom.

“Nicodemus is a walking Bible, but he is a spiritual corpse.” (Johnny, 07:37)

What Does It Mean to Be 'Born Again'? (10:12–12:01)

• Jesus's statements about being born of “water and the Spirit” refer to:
  • Water: Cleansing from sin (linked to Ezekiel 36:24–27, read by Hank at 11:32)
  • Spirit: Heart transformation and the gift of new life

“There’s only one type of person in heaven: someone who has been born of water and the Spirit.” (Johnny, 10:12)

The Doctrine of Sin and Inability (12:01–18:34)

• Sin is not merely bad behavior but a deep-seated condition—a heart problem.
• Even the best human efforts fall short; “those who are in the flesh cannot please God” (Romans 8:8).
• Key point: We “sin because we are sinners.” Rebirth is not a matter of moral improvement but a miracle of transformation.

“It’s not just our worst works and motives that need to be cleansed; it’s our best works and best motives outside of Christ.” (Johnny, 13:40)

The Powerlessness of Human Effort (18:34–20:45)

• “You’re not a sickly animal… You’re dead.” (Hank, 19:05)
• Rebirth is 100% God’s initiative—just as none of us contributed to our physical birth, so in spiritual birth.

“You contribute as much to your spiritual resurrection as Lazarus contributed to his physical resurrection.” (Johnny, 20:02)

The Miracle of Salvation—Not a Self-Help System (20:45–25:44)

• Salvation cannot be systematized into steps; it is fundamentally a miracle, not a merit-based process.
• Catechisms and classic theology affirm: “Are we so corrupt that we are totally unable to do any good...?” “Yes, unless we are regenerated by the Spirit of God.” (Heidelberg Catechism, cited at 24:08)
• Jesus wants to discourage Nicodemus (and listeners) from any pretense of self-salvation.

The Wind Analogy—God’s Sovereign Work (25:44–28:42)

• The wind’s invisibility and sovereign power illustrate the mysterious, unstoppable work of the Holy Spirit in new birth (John 3:7–8).

“You don’t see God go in and change your heart of stone into a heart of flesh... but you see the effects of it.” (Johnny, 26:41)

• Only God can effect true heart change.

Addressing the Self-Justifying Heart (28:42–29:21)

• For those who protest, “I’m not that bad”—Jesus’s point to Nicodemus: even the best of us need total transformation, not incremental improvement.

How the Miracle Happens (29:21–32:58)

• God uses the Word (“the seed of the word of God implanted in our hearts”) and human messengers, but even so, all true transformation is God’s doing.
• Personal response: The question is not “have you prayed a prayer?” but “Have you truly been born again?”
• Assurance: Those who come to Christ can rest in Philippians 1:6—that “he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Nicodemus is a walking Bible, but he is a spiritual corpse.” (Johnny, 07:37)
• “We aren’t sinners because we sin; we sin because we are sinners.” (Johnny, 16:24)
• “A dead person doesn’t need medicine. They need a miracle. They need a resurrection.” (Johnny & Hank, 19:54)
• “You contribute as much to your spiritual resurrection as Lazarus contributed to his physical resurrection.” (Johnny, 20:02)
• “Are we so corrupt that we are totally unable to do any good…? Yes, unless we are regenerated by the spirit of God.” (Heidelberg Catechism via Johnny, 24:08)
• “If you think that you contribute something to your salvation…you’re like Nicodemus still in verse four. I don’t understand.” (Johnny, 28:08)
• “The wind blows where it wishes… so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.” (Jesus via Johnny, 25:44)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00–01:17: Opening thesis—heart as the root problem, not environment
• 03:00–04:50: Gospels as mystery/investigation stories; human quest for truth
• 07:13–08:30: Introduction to Nicodemus; the anxiety of religious yet empty living
• 10:12–12:01: What does “born of water and the Spirit” mean? OT background in Ezekiel
• 12:01–16:38: The nature of sin and need for cleansing; Old Testament terms for sin
• 18:34–20:45: We are spiritually dead, not merely sick; can’t save ourselves
• 24:08: Theological reinforcement from the Heidelberg Catechism
• 25:44–28:42: Wind as analogy for the sovereign work of the Spirit
• 29:21–30:56: Addressing the "I'm basically good" response; clarifying regeneration
• 32:11–32:35: Encouragement for assurance in God’s sustaining work

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Tone and Style

• Earnest, pastoral, and deeply theological, with moments of lightness and camaraderie between Jonny and Hank.
• Frequent use of analogies and rhetorical questions to translate doctrine into daily life.
• Passion for biblical precision and for making life-transforming theological truths accessible.

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Takeaway

Being “born again” is not a call to greater religious performance but a humble recognition that we need a new heart only God can provide—a miracle of cleansing and renewal in the deepest part of who we are. No amount of religious activity or moral striving can substitute for the supernatural work of the Spirit in salvation.

Reflective Question from Jonny (32:56):
“Have you been born again? Not just prayed a prayer, not just belonged to a religious family—has God transformed your heart? The evidence: new affections, new longings, a miracle of God’s grace.”

Coming Next:
How do faith and God’s initiative intersect? Is faith passive? Jonny and Hank promise to address these tensions in the following episode.

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Transcript

[Johnny]

The person next to you is not your greatest problem. Your bad upbringing is not your greatest problem. Your bad father is not your greatest problem. Your own sinful heart is your greatest problem. Truly. Truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. Now, sometimes we come to verses in the Bible and we're like, I don't really know what that means. Well, Jesus just said, unless you're born of the water and the spirit, you cannot see the kingdom of God. Which means it's pretty important for us to understand because there's only one type of person in heaven, someone who has been born of water and the spirit. So we need to understand. And in order to understand, we need to look back to the Old Testament, to the prophet Ezekiel. If you don't understand this, you've missed the gospel. Hank, how we doing?

[Hank]

I'm doing great, Johnny, how are you?

[Johnny]

Good. Hey, a couple things. We're going to do a restock of the Theology fuels doxology shirt soon.

[Hank]

Actually huge because mine got dried and it shrunk.

[Johnny]

Stop. If you are interested in that, we send it out first through the people subscribed to the newsletter. So you can subscribe to the newsletter on dialandministries.org those are the devotionals that go out multiple times a week and we'll give first access to people that are signed up there. Question for you though. Well, before I ask you my question,

[Hank]

it actually doesn't matter what you're going to ask me because I have a separate question for you.

[Johnny]

Okay. Well, this episode is brought to you by the Master's University. If you or someone you know is interested in pursuing higher higher education. Masters University. That's where I went. Committed to Christ in scripture. You can go check out more information at masters. Edu and use our code dial in to waive the application fee. If you are interested. Highly recommend. Hank, question for you. Favorite movie of all time.

[Hank]

Remember the Titans. Separate. Question for you. I'm curious to know your favorite movie.

[Johnny]

Probably the Count of Monte Cristo.

[Hank]

Okay, we're going to circle back to that in this episode. But what did you do last night?

[Johnny]

I can't tell. I went to a concert.

[Hank]

Okay, so.

[Johnny]

Well, I went to Stephen Curtis Chapman to see he did a speechless 25 year like reunion tour album. And that was my song. Dude. I used to just be there like as 11 year old just worshiping front

[Hank]

row, just hands up. Wow. Yeah.

[Johnny]

Okay, well, no, I gotta move on now. We're already two minutes in and people Are like, chop, chop, chop.

[Hank]

Fire away.

[Johnny]

Well, first of all, along the theme of movies, there are eight different series in the Law and Order universe. This is a lot. Law and Order, Trial by Jury, Law and Order, Los Angeles, lot needed there. True Crime, Criminal Intent, Organized Crime, Law and Order, just blank. Law and Order, Law and Order, Special Victims, Law and Order, United Kingdom. In total. Well, when I wrote this, there were 1349 episodes across 65 seasons of television. Seen them all, Seen Katie, maybe. There are five different series that make up the NCIS franchise, which is a totally different show, I've discovered, than Law and Order.

[Hank]

Depends.

[Johnny]

The different NCIS regular, NCIS Los Angeles, NCIS New Orleans. Turns out it's not New Orleans. NCIS Hawaii, NCIS Sydney, which accounts for 1,007 episodes across 46 different seasons. I can go on and on, but the most successful genre of television show in history contain cases, crimes that needed to be solved, clues that need to be kind of put together, mysteries and so forth. Even as I mentioned, my favorite movie is Count of Monte Cristo. You know, my other. My favorite book would be Crime and Punishment. Something that needs to kind of be figured out. There's a case that needs to be solved, and I think there's something about it that is revelatory of the human heart. We kind of want to get to the bottom of things. And one thing that I want to just. I mentioned that because as we turn to the gospels, these gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, they're not just a bunch of doctrinal facts given to us in some sort of like a, you know, memorize these verses. It's a story. And even Luke's Gospel is written. And he writes, he's a Greek doctor. And he's saying, I want to give you an exact account regarding this person, Jesus Christ. And it's written almost in this investigative clue, mystery type of way that I think captivates the human imagination. And sometimes when we turn to the Bible, we're just going like, hey, we're going to be told, boop, boop, bop, boop, boop. But this is. You like that?

[Hank]

Really nice.

[Johnny]

But this is a story that is captivating. And John's gospel that we're looking at in this episode is polemical, meaning he's making an argument, it's apologetical, he's providing reasoning, and it's evangelistic. But it's all centered around this main question. Who exactly is this person? Jesus Christ? And I just start there because I think sometimes when we're looking at the Bible, we don't really view it in the way that maybe people would have in the first century. The people engaging Jesus, who exactly is this man?

[Hank]

Yeah. And your point is, it's not only that way. Throughout the Gospels, it's easy for us to almost read them as like a disjointed set of stories. If you've grown up in the church, like the felt board and it's like, oh, yeah, I know this one.

[Johnny]

But it was actually your kids grow up thinking that way because you got like, this is my favorite story, and this is my favorite story, and this is my favorite story. But they're all kind of combined, revealing that main question you're getting at.

[Hank]

And that's true in the book context. It's also true sometimes in the individual accounts. And I think we're diving back into something we began previously.

[Johnny]

Yeah. So last week, last episode, the people around Jesus are beginning to kind of question who Jesus is. He's obviously no ordinary man. And it says at the end of John chapter 2 that many people believed in Jesus. And then it says right after that. But Jesus did not believe in them because he knows what is within the heart of every single man. This is really interesting. They saw his signs, but they did not trust in him as Savior. And Jesus himself knows what is within the heart and mind of every single individual. And his omniscience, which means that he knows everything, is put on display for us in the following chapter in John chapter three. And he's having this conversation. We started this last week in our last episode. And you can go back and listen to it, but he is talking with the poster boy of religion. His name is Nicodemus. He is a Pharisee. And he comes up and he recognizes that Jesus is a teacher and a preacher and a prophet and a miracle worker, and yet he doesn't know God. Nicodemus, as we examined, is the most powerful, prestigious, respected man in Israel. He was someone that would have memorized the Bible. He was generous with his wealth. He is as influential as you can get. And yet there's one big problem. He has no assurance regarding his standing before God. And when you are dripping in religion and yet you recognize that your soul is a drought as it relates to a real relationship with God. There is no angst like that. I mean, that is the peak of anxiety is knowing every single answer, but not knowing whether or not you actually know God. And Interestingly, there are 6,000 Pharisees in the land of Israel at this time. And there's only one that comes to Jesus and he doesn't come at day, you know, during the day, but he comes, it says in John 3, at night. And his main question, as we've kind of been alley ooping is, who exactly is this man?

[Hank]

And so Nicodemus again, to separate ourselves from the Sunday school answer. A real man approaching Jesus with a real question. And yet, as we started to look at last week, Jesus dives right to the heart of the matter.

[Johnny]

Yeah, Nicodemus comes and he's kind of. His opening salutation is like, hey, good teacher, we know that you must come from God, for no one can do the signs that you do unless God is with him. How was that?

[Hank]

That was boopity beep bop.

[Johnny]

And Jesus responds, and he doesn't even really respond to what Nicodemus says. He responds in verse three, as we looked at last episode. Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Now this is a shock to Nicodemus system Jesus main point here is to shatter all religiosity as it relates to earning your way to God. And Jesus is wanting Nicodemus to know with absolute certainty that being religious never got a single person into the kingdom of God. Nicodemus has a lot of religion, but he has no spiritual life. Nicodemus is a walking Bible, but he is a spiritual corpse. And Jesus is relaying this to him. And Nicodemus at this point is confused because he has a rich pedigree of religiosity. He has the scripture memorized backwards and forwards. And Jesus says that doesn't matter as it relates to your standing before God. And what does this tell you? Well, it tells me that you cannot discern spiritual truths apart from supernatural power. And we're going to kind of continue on in this conversation and we're kind of immersing ourselves. And I say this often when I preach that R.C. sproul said to find the drama. And here's a lot of drama, because if you ask the average person today what is a Christian? Well, first of all, 64% of people in America say that they are Christian. And if you said, what does it mean to be a Christian or how do you become a Christian? They would say, well, you pray a prayer and you acknowledge certain things about God, believe in Jesus, you believe in Jesus. But James says that even the demons believe and shudder. Satan believes. Satan knows that he is a sinner. So, so again, what does it mean to be saved? Jesus is crystal clear here. It means that you must be born again and no one is Saved by knowing certain facts or praying certain prayers. He's going to explain in this section here that the Holy Spirit has to do something to you in order for you to be to inherit the kingdom of God.

[Hank]

And I don't mean to, I don't want to be redundant, but just from the outset. Again, we can't emphasize enough if we're reading this text correctly. Nicodemus isn't someone who's unfamiliar with the truths of the gospel in today's context. This would be someone who's listening to all the right faith podcasts, who has a marked up Bible, who might be able to provide all the answers.

[Johnny]

Nine highlighters.

[Hank]

The fastest one in the sword drill. Shout out to Sunday schools that still do sword drills. But it's that type of person I still practice with. Katie can still know the objective kind of statements of fact, but their heart is still far from the Lord.

[Johnny]

Yeah, or just yeah. And it's not regenerate. And we're going to talk about what that even means. But I want to pick up in the text in John, chapter three, verse five, Nicodemus is unsure of what Jesus is talking about in verse four. And then Jesus says in verse five, truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. Now he just said in verse three, unless someone is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. And now he's doubling down, but he's using different terminology here. In verse five, he says, truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. Now sometimes we come to verses in the Bible and we're like, I don't really know what that means. Well, Jesus just said, unless you're born of the water and the spirit, you cannot see the kingdom of God. Which means it's pretty important for us to understand because there's only one type of person in heaven, someone who has been born of water and the spirit. So we need to understand. And in order to understand, we need to look back to the Old Testament, to the prophet Ezekiel. And Ezekiel is ministering during the Israelite Babylonian captivity. It's a dark time in Israel's history. They had played the harlot as it relates to their purity and devotion to God. But the book of Ezekiel contains new covenant promises and prophecies. What God is going to do, and the main thing that God says that he is going to do in the new covenant is he is going to change people from the inside out. Now Would you read Ezekiel 36:24, 27?

[Hank]

Yeah, absolutely. So beginning in verse 24, it says, and I will take you from the nations, gather you from all the lands, and bring you into your own land. Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean. I will cleanse you from all your uncleanliness and from all your idols. Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you and cause you to walk in my statutes. And you will be careful to do my judgments.

[Johnny]

So two primary things here. Jesus says, you have to be born of the water, and then we'll talk about the spirit. But two things here. First of all, it brings us to the reality that Jesus is telling Nicodemus, you need to be cleansed. God says in Ezekiel 36:25, I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean. I will cleanse you from all of your filthiness and from all of your idols. Water in the Old Testament is a picture of cleansing. And this is what we need. Jeremiah 33. 8 says, God says, I will cleanse them from all the guilt of their sin against me, and I will forgive all the guilt of their sin and rebellion. Now, why do we need to be cleansed? And again, no one gets to heaven without being cleansed. Why do we need to be cleansed? Because we are sinful. Now, the word sin, what does that even mean? Well, there are 15 or more words in Hebrew that are used in the Bible for sin. Seven of those are used quite prominently. It means to miss the mark. There's this idea of unrighteousness in the Old Testament, which means that is an absence of God's righteousness. There's this word transgress or transgression, which means to violate God's word. There's the word iniquity, which means that we fall short of God's holiness, rebellion. We resist God's goodness, perversion, that we participate in things that God detests. And then there's this idea. We read it in Proverbs, often abomination. We do the things that God hates. Often we think of sin, though so much in the realm of things that we do, stealing or lying or lusting. But God says, and Jesus says often in the New Testament, these things, the real problems. The real problem is the human heart. And this is why Jeremiah 17:9 says, the heart is deceitful and Desperately wicked. We sin because we are internally corrupted, not externally corrupted. The world thinks people sin because they had rough upbringings or because of their, you know, their environment. Yeah, but the Bible says that we sin because of who we are. We aren't sinners because we sin, we sin because we are sinners. This is not to say, and this is important just to back up for a moment. This is not to say that everybody sins to the degree, you know, to the max degree, but that by nature we are born in sin. Psalm 51, verse 5, in sin did my mother conceive me? And when Jesus is telling the most righteous man in Israel that you need to be born of water, he's saying, nicodemus, even you, even you and all of your religious pedigree and devotion and achievement and recognition, you have a massive sin problem. And you need to be cleansed. And there's something that we really need to understand. It's not only our worst works and worst motives that need to be cleansed. It's our best works and best motives outside of Christ. Why? Well, because Romans 8:8 says, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. This is very important to understand because, you know, I think about that, you know, people outside of Christ that try to earn their way to God or try to do a good deed. You know, at Christmas, you hear people that don't know the Lord that say, hey, it's time to give back. Romans 8, 8 says, those who are outside of Jesus Christ, they cannot please God. And more on this in a moment. But not only do we need to be cleansed, but when Jesus says, you have to be born of water and the spirit, this idea of spirit means that we need to be renewed, transformed, even. What you mention, it says in Ezekiel 36:26, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you, and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put my spirit, there's the main idea there, within you and cause you to walk in my statutes. We see the same thing in Ezekiel 11:19. I will give them one heart and put a new spirit within them. Why do you think that it says that we have to be born of the Spirit? What does that bring to your mind?

[Hank]

Biblically, I start thinking back on cases where the Spirit kind of enters the scene. I'm curious what you're driving at, but even before you go there, just an observation of hearing you articulate that really clearly just drives a stake in the heart of all semblance. Of legalism, of just this idea. I mean, it's just. It's an obvious point, but it's one that, hearing you articulate so clearly, we're not sinners because we sin.

[Johnny]

We're sin because we're sinners.

[Hank]

Exactly. I mean, I don't want to derail us, but it's just. It's a helpful recalibrating point that needs to almost be slowed down and digested. But your point is there's a water cleansing, and then also you need to

[Johnny]

be cleansed by spirit. And I say this often, you know, and you've heard me say this a bunch, but if all we had in the Gospels was the removal of our sin, would we ever be able to stand before a holy God? The answer is no.

[Hank]

Then we're in absence of something.

[Johnny]

Yeah. It's not just that we need forgiven. We need something else. And we need to be renewed. Now, when Jesus says, you have to be born of the Spirit, in the Old Testament, the first time we're introduced to the Spirit is that he's hovering over the surface of the waters and he brings life into something. And Jesus says here that you have to be born of the Spirit. And that takes us back to Ezekiel. That God says, I'm gonna give you a new heart. I'm gonna take your heart of stone and I'm gonna give you a heart of flesh. Which means he is going to. Same idea that we talked about in our last episode, that palingenesia, where Jesus says, I'm going to remake the heavens and the earth. This is that same power that one day God is going to remake all things. He's going to have to remake our hearts. And this is the doctrine of rebirth. Now, understanding something fundamental is really important. Ephesians 2 says that we are born dead in our sins. All we do is sin. All we can do is sin because we are depraved. And again, depraved doesn't mean that we sin as much as we possibly could. It just means at our core, we are born with the sin nature. Now, apart from rebirth, meaning that the Spirit of God takes our heart of stone and replaces it with the heart of flesh. The person next to you is not your greatest problem. Your bad upbringing is not your greatest problem. Your bad father is not your greatest problem. Your own sinful heart is your greatest problem. Because we were born in sin. And those who are born in sin will remain in sin unless God comes and transforms them. Now, interestingly, in Ezekiel and some of this prophetic language is really important to understand. God is going to tell Ezekiel in the following chapter in Ezekiel 37 to go to a valley. And he gives him this vision of dry, dead bones. Just carcass, you know, like. Well, not even a carcass, just skeletons. Right. When I think of that, I always go back to the elephant graveyard.

[Hank]

And lion literally was there.

[Johnny]

Yeah, Come on. And you just think about all these bones. And God shows Ezekiel this picture and he says, this is the human heart. It's as dead as the valley of dry bones. And I'm going to have my spirit come in and bring these bones to life. Now, I want to back up, and I know this is a little bit theological, but biblically speaking, outside of Christ, you're not like the Bible says, you're bones.

[Hank]

You're not a sickly animal kind of falling behind the herd. You're dead.

[Johnny]

You're dead. You're not most. You're not like sick. You're not like, I need a breather. You're dead. Ephesians 4:18 says that our hearts are hardened. Romans 8:7. The mind, governed by the flesh is hostile towards God. First Corinthians 2:14 says, the natural man cannot accept the things of the Lord. They are foolishness to him. Romans 6:17 says, we're slaves of sin. Ephesians 2 says, we're dead in sin, that we're servants of Satan. This is our natural position. And what do now? Just big idea here. And this is part of the reason why God is. And Jesus Christ is making this clear to Nicodemus. If you don't understand this, you've missed the gospel. What do the dead need? New life. Yeah. A dead person doesn't need medicine.

[Hank]

They need a miracle.

[Johnny]

They need a miracle. They need a resurrection. Question for you. How much did you contribute to your physical birth?

[Hank]

Nothing.

[Johnny]

Nothing. And this is the idea of our spiritual rebirth. This is the main point. Watch the emphasis in Ezekiel 36. God says over and over again, I will give you a new heart. I will sprinkle clean water on you. I will cleanse you. I will put my spirit on you. I will, I will, I will, I will. Five times. You read that. This is a work of God. Jeremiah 24:7. I will give them a new heart to know me. You contribute as much to your spiritual resurrection as Lazarus contributed to his physical resurrection. This is the need to be washed and then to be regenerated, to be born again. So now back to John 3. And this is any thoughts before we move on to the next verse?

[Hank]

Well, it's just striking me. I don't mean to disrupt us, but even we read Ephesians. Who's that written by? Paul. Paul is in some ways like the greatest example. He's actively opposing Jesus from the position of a Pharisee. He knows all the answers. He's totally interrupted by Jesus on the road to Damascus and just thinking through of like, we need. We think of that. I think of that as a vision, like, wow, what a miracle. And it's. It's striking me in a new way. No, that miracle is the intervention.

[Johnny]

Yeah.

[Hank]

Of the same order of magnitude of the miracle that Jesus worked in my own heart.

[Johnny]

That's what's necessary. And this is part of the reason why, you know, growing up in the church, you know, we used to do baptisms, like, almost every Sunday night, and you watch certain stories and you're like, you know, you remember being there, like 11 years old, going like, I wish my testimony was this.

[Hank]

That guy's got an MVP testimony.

[Johnny]

I'll never have a convict, and I'm a pastor's kid. Biblically speaking, what is necessary for Nicodemus is the same thing that is necessary for the thief on the cross, and that is to be born again, to have a miracle of God, for the spirit of God to take a heart of stone and transform it into a heart of flesh. And we minimize the miracle that is necessary when we depreciate our condition outside of Christ, we're not mostly alive. We're spiritually dead. And Jesus continues in John 3. 6 by saying, that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the spirit is spirit. What does he mean when he says, that which is born of the flesh is flesh? Well, he's just meaning that there is no automatic Christians. You mean if you're born in the flesh, who's born in the flesh? Every single person ever. And he says they're in the flesh. That's who they are. This is why Jeremiah 13 says, can an Ethiopian change his skin? Can a leopard change his spots? What's the answer? No, no, they are who they are. And Jesus is telling Nicodemus, listen, by nature, you are born in the flesh. You cannot change. You cannot change. Like your skin. A leper can't change his spots. This is. This is so critical for you to understand because he's wanting Nicodemus to understand that you don't need some sort of reformation. You need regeneration. You don't need to turn over a new leaf of your life. You need new life. You don't need a new start, you need a new heart. And I think sometimes people even have this idea that I wish I could go back. If I could go back outside of Christ, you could have 1,000 restarts to life. And apart from the intervening grace of God by which he gives you a new heart, none of those lives would earn you your way to God because it's a miracle. It's not a merit based system. Now, one thing regarding this, all that is flesh is flesh and all that the flesh produces is more flesh. You know, one thing I want to say, and I want you to jump in here because I think it's important for us to understand sometimes we acknowledge that we are saved by grace and we're not saved by works because we kind of think that God does not accept the works that we do outside of Christ. But it's not because God doesn't accept our works. It's because we have actually no good works outside of Christ. Meaning all of our charitable deeds or whatever they may be, are not actually honoring to God unless we are in Christ. And we kind of make it like, oh, God doesn't accept this currency.

[Hank]

Yeah, we're not trading like, oh, God denominated in pesos and we have dollars. Your point would be? We're completely bankrupt.

[Johnny]

We're bankrupt. And this is what God, Jesus, you know, who is God, wants Nicodemus to understand. You have nothing to offer here. You have nothing to offer here. I like the Heidelberg Catechism. That's a series of questions and answers that were initially published to help families and young children understand theology. And it was initially published in 1563. And there's this question and it's, but are we so corrupt that we are totally unable to do any good and inclined to do all evil? And the answer comes, children would respond, yes, unless we are regenerated by the spirit of God. Now hold on for a second. We've been talking about, you know, Jesus is talking to the most religious person in the world, the teacher of Israel, most prominent guy there is. And Jesus is just lambasted to the guy. You do nothing.

[Hank]

If I'm Nicodemus at this point, I'm incredibly discouraged by the conversation. Or if I'm reading this in absence of knowing Nicodemus story, if I'm just listening to you talk through it, I'm feeling smaller and smaller in my chair.

[Johnny]

And the goal of the scripture is bingo. I hope you're discouraged. And Jesus is trying to discourage Nicodemus, right? From what? Well, he's encouraging him to abandon the idea altogether that any ounce of our religiosity merits us a single drop of the grace of God, that this is nothing short of a miracle. And then he continues, in verse seven, he says, do not be amazed that I said to you, you must be born again. Nicodemus. I just imagined him sitting there going like this. Like what do you mean?

[Hank]

Yeah.

[Johnny]

And he says, do not be amazed at this. You must be born again. Verse 8. The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from or where it is going. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit. Jesus often draws these parallels with nature. And he says, do not be amazed. He says, the wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know where it comes from or where it is going. Now, what's he talking about? Well, two things. Here, the wind is invisible, and secondly, the wind is sovereign. Now, have you ever seen the wind uproot trees? You can see a hurricane or tornado, all these.

[Hank]

A tornado, like every other wind?

[Johnny]

Yeah. It would take 20 men to push over one of those trees more. Yeah, but you have these massive winds that come through. They bend over trees. It destroys everything in its path. Can you see the wind? No, you can't see the wind, but you see the effects of it. You see the dust, you see the debris, you see the branches swaying in the wind.

[Hank]

It's indisputable.

[Johnny]

Yeah, and it makes the that which seems so powerful bow down. And the same thing is true of the sovereignty of God, the spirit of God. You cannot see it, but it makes that which is proud bow down. You don't see. Now, do I see God go in and change your heart of stone into a heart of flesh? No, no, but I see the effects of it. Secondly, regarding the wind, the wind is so sovereign, you can't harness it. No one can harness the wind. You cannot grasp it, so to speak. And this is something that only God can do. Who else can change a heart? Only God. This is why even when the disciples, they see Jesus says, hush, be still. They respond and say, who then is this, that even the. What, winds obey him and the seas obey him? Who else can harness this? Well, only God. Who else can change a heart of stone into a heart of flesh? Only God. And this is the whole point. Now, we're going to continue and probably wrap up the conversation in the next episode, but I want to talk about the intersection of our response to the gospel. And there is a confluence here. And you know that's my favorite word. That in the same book, in the same chapter, in the same conversation, Jesus is going to talk about two realities. First of all, you bring nothing to the table. And what is necessary for you to inherit the kingdom of God and is a miracle has to happen to you. You must be born again. Now, there were books written, you know, 30 years ago, 10 steps to being born again. But all of those steps, that book idea and the title itself present to you kind of an idea that is unbiblical in the sense. Well, that'd be like telling a baby that doesn't yet exist tends to be born. No, no, no. Well, I contribute nothing to this. This is all a miracle of God. And if you think that you contribute something to your salvation, if you think you contribute something to your birth, you're like Nicodemus still in verse four. I don't understand.

[Hank]

You're confused to jump in here. I just. It strikes me there's probably a group of listeners that would be listening to this that would maybe think, like, but I'm actually not that bad, like, there. I've had conversations with people in the church who would identify as Christians, who would almost say, like, well, yeah, but, Johnny, like, be real. We do sin to various extents. And I don't know if I'm actually, like, when I look myself in the mirror, I actually see a bunch of good things. What would you. How would you. I don't want to detract us too much, but briefly, how would you answer that person?

[Johnny]

I would say, so did Nicodemus. Right. And what Jesus is telling Nicodemus here, and I'm not saying anybody that asked that is an unbeliever. But he's telling Nicodemus, you're not yet in the kingdom, and unless you acknowledge that salvation is a miracle of God, biblically speaking, you don't understand the Gospel. And this is why I think Titus 3:5 is so important. And I mentioned this last week when we were kind of talking about that idea of regeneration, that he saved us. Titus 3:5. Not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness. That's a big idea. But according to his mercy. So we understand that we affirm his mercy. It says, by the washing, there's that water. Of regeneration. Of regeneration. And then the renewing by the Holy Spirit. That's a miracle. God took your heart of stone. You were born with a heart of stone, and he transformed it into a heart of flesh. Now, just a couple caveats. We cannot separate the spirit of God from The word of God. How does this happen? Well, it's something that we have to be born from above anoth. And in the Greek. But James 1:18 says that he brought us forth by the word of truth. It is the seed of the word of God that is implanted into our hearts that God uses to produce new birth. Secondly, God also does use human instruments to produce this new birth. But as a pastor, one of the things that I'm so thankful for is that all of the transformation that takes place is reliant upon a miracle of God. It's not reliant upon my gifting. But the question would be, well, aren't we called to place our faith in Jesus Christ? Aren't we called to share Christ with people? If it's all a miracle of God,

[Hank]

then I don't have to do anything.

[Johnny]

And I don't have to do anything because I'm just kind of waiting on God. Let go, let God. And we're going to answer that next week. But until then, I want to just ask the question. And you know, I want this to become a normal part of my just vernacular. Have you listening watching been born again? I'm not asking if you've prayed a prayer. I'm not asking if your family is religious. I'm not asking even if you serve. You know, Jesus is asking the most religious man in Israel, unless someone is born again, unless someone is born of the water, but in the spirit, you will not see the kingdom of God. Has the spirit of God cleansed you and has he transformed you so that you can say yes and amen to 2 Corinthians 5:17. If anyone is in Christ, he is a new what creation? I didn't just turn over a new page. God transformed my heart. And as an evidence of that, it says in Ezekiel 36, I have new affections, new longings, new desires. It doesn't mean we don't battle sin, doesn't mean the flesh isn't real, but it means that we've been the recipients of a miracle of God.

[Hank]

Well, and that's such an important addendum to add to encourage folks in the same way that you didn't bring anything to your salvation. When you place your faith in Jesus, you can have total confidence, trust and peace, and that he who began the good work in you is going to bring it to completion. And it's actually you can rest assured in his love and care on that reality.

[Johnny]

Yeah. And just I think finally, if you're struggling, how do I know if I've been born again. How do I know if I'm one of those who will be born again? It's really easy. And this is what we'll look at next week. If you come to Jesus Christ in faith. Right. So how do I know if I'm born again? If you receive Jesus Christ and come to him as you said, so thanks, Hank. We'll pick it up here.

[Hank]

Absolutely. Looking forward to it. Joanny.

[Johnny]

Sam.