Anoushka Mutanda Doughty (3:28)

Then there was some commentary about what it was like to work with Diddy. And that kind of picked up off where David left yesterday, talking about, you know, seven day weeks and three weeks back to back with no breaks. He spoke about a time where he ran a red light so he. He drove when he shouldn't have driven. And what security told him a rhyme that could maybe define how it is to work as his personal assistant.

Sakshi Vengatraman (3:50)

Yeah. So the rhyme was what rhymes with tired? And the implication there is fired. Like, if you're. If you're tired on the job, if you complain about working these long hours, then. Then you're fired. And yeah, he said he did run that red light with Diddy in the backseat of the car, and Diddy screamed at him and asked him why he's running red lights, that he can't be running red lights. And he turned around and, you know, using an expletive, said, I'm tired, you know, and he didn't get fired. So that was interesting.

Anoushka Mutanda Doughty (4:19)

And with David James, they also spoke about a couple of different instances that presented the narrative that maybe Diddy wasn't even aware of the many things that were going on in his orb. I mean, it's a big business. Lots of people, big houses, et cetera. They spoke about an incident where David and one other member of staff pick up two women from a hotel who he refers to, you know, later finding out are commercial sex workers. He says he brings them back to Diddy's house. And that is really picked up on by Mark Agnifolo.

Sakshi Vengatraman (4:47)

Yeah, so the defense is trying to paint this picture that, you know, Diddy didn't know about everything that was going on under his nose, even illegal activities. And so James kind of reflects on this incident where he brings these women back to Diddy's home. And Agnivolo really hammers home on if Diddy knew about the fact that they were doing this. He said this was something that happened frequently. People brought women back to Diddy's home without asking him. But ultimately, no, Diddy didn't know.

Anoushka Mutanda Doughty (5:13)

The next person who took the the stand was Cassie's mom. I thought this was going to be a really, really big moment. I thought this was going to be. She was going to be extremely emotional on the stand, but she was really quick.

Anoushka Mutanda Doughty (5:24)

She was kind of on and then she was off.

Sakshi Vengatraman (5:26)

The testimony itself lasted just about half an hour, maybe even less. The defense actually had no cross examination for Cassie's mom. It was all direct questioning from prosecutors, and it stayed pretty factual. It was a recounting of exactly what Cassie's mom, Regina Ventura, saw happening in her daughter's life. She says that, you know, Cassie would come home and have bruising on her body. And one time, Christmas 2011, Cassie told her what had been going on, that he had been beating her. And there was another incident that Diddy actually demanded $20,000 from Cassie's family when he found out that she was seeing someone else.

Anoushka Mutanda Doughty (6:02)

We heard this before about the relationship with Kid Cudi, who's another artist. We hadn't heard that he demanded 20 grand because he wanting to be recompensed for all the money that he'd spent on Cassie. And Cassie has told us, you know, he paid for the phone, the car, the flats, the apartments, et cetera. She spoke about Cassie's mom, spoke about how they actually got their hands on that amount of money.

Sakshi Vengatraman (6:22)

Yeah. So Cassie's parents come from a fairly normal middle class backgr, and Regina Ventura said that they had to take out a home equity loan on their house in order to come up with that kind of money. Another important aspect of this story was that it was all facilitated by Diddy's bookkeeper. So that speaks to the prosecution's argument and whether it was a crime or not. There were people facilitating, you know, trying to get money out of folks for Diddy on his behalf. So Regina spoke to taking out this loan on her home, sending Diddy the $20,000. And then she says four or five days later, he actually sent it back, or it ended up back in her account.

Anoushka Mutanda Doughty (7:00)

She also spoke about some stuff we'd heard before about Diddy taking Cassie's phone and her being present for that and having an argument with him outside of Cassie's flat. And she said he gives back the phone eventually, and then he gets in her car, which is a Jaguar, which he'd bought her and drives off. So we've heard that from Cassie before, that her items would get confiscated if he believed she slighted him in some way. And then we had no cross examination of Cassie's mum. We had time for two more witnesses to take the stand. And the next one's name is. Was being referred to as the Punisher. His real name is Charade Deshaun Hayes and they are a commercial sex worker. I just want to say, because it was my immediate question, how on earth did he earn that name? It's actually from playing basketball when he was a kid. He told a story that was kind of very similar to the. The last commercial sex worker we heard from.

Sakshi Vengatraman (7:50)

So the Punisher said that he was initially contacted by a woman who he later found out was Cassie Ventura. And she told him exactly what the other escort said, that she told him that she wanted to create an erotic sexy scene for her husband and wanted to hire him to be a part of that scene. So he arrived at the hotel and described a very similar setting. Cassie opened the door in a bathrobe. He was expect a crowd of women, which is what he's used to performing for at bachelorette parties and birthdays and things like that. And there was no one there. It was just Cassie. And she took him through the room. Everything was covered. The couches, the furniture were all covered in linens. There were candles lit. So right off the bat, very similar to what the other escort told us in court say.

Anoushka Mutanda Doughty (8:36)

One notable difference is the other escort told us that at some point he turned up at a hotel and Diddy opens the door, that he's suited and booted and he hasn't got his face covered. Etc. Whereas this commercial sex worker kind of happened upon finding out it was Diddy because he was left to wait in a room in one of the hotels and he turned on the TV and the TV had the name of the hotel and says, we're delighted to welcome Sean Diddy Combs. And that's how he figured out that it was Cassie Ventura. He says they have about 8 to 12. He's not using the term freak off. It's definitely consistent with previous descriptions. So he has eight to 12 of them. But then it comes to an end. Why?

Sakshi Vengatraman (9:11)

He said that he was performing oral sex on Cassie. Diddy came over and threw down some condoms and instructed him in an explicit way that he wanted them to start having penetrative sex. But he said that he couldn't perform and therefore he left eventually and they never contacted him again.

Anoushka Mutanda Doughty (9:31)

Yeah. And then when cross examination starts, they speak about the erectile dysfunction and you kind of end up going on a tangent in a completely different direction. But I think that is important because the mood of the room switched. The mood of every room switched within the court, in the overflow rooms. And Charay, he was a very direct guy, quite likable and open and spoke openly about, you know, his feelings, his emotions, etc. He spoke about the erectile dysfunction and he also said he was writing a book about it and that. Well, that conversation led to a lot of giggling. Laughing Teehees in the back of the room.

Sakshi Vengatraman (10:04)

Yeah. So the name of the book is called In Search of Freezer Meat. And when asked about why it was titled that, Charay said, what's harder than freezer Meat? Referring to his erectile dysfunction and, you know, problems in the bedroom. So it definitely did switch the mood of the testimony. Him and the attorney questioning him were quipping back and forth, making little jokes. And the defense's cross examination actually ended with the attorney saying, congratulations on your book and I hope it's successful.

Anoushka Mutanda Doughty (10:34)

Yeah, and I think that's really important. Just to quote our. Obviously our legal sensei, Sean Kent, a happy jury don't convict. And if you can take the jury out of the proceedings and actually be quite light hearted and make people laugh, which was what was happening, that works in the favor of the defense. But while they were going through that cross examination, there was another similarity with the previous escort. And it was kind of another narrative that the defence were trying to introduce about him potentially having feelings for Cassie. But it didn't really go anywhere.

Sakshi Vengatraman (11:04)

Just for more context, Shere, or the Punisher says that he met with Diddy and Cassie about eight to 12 times between the years 2012 and 2015. He says, you know, during that time, like the first escort, he was exclusively contacted by Cassie. He mostly interacted with Cassie. He was paid by Cassie, like with the first escort. The defense capitalized on this and kind of used it to question if he had feelings for Cassie or if he was in love with Cassie. And he was pretty clear and said, no, he wasn't.

Anoushka Mutanda Doughty (11:36)

He did say he felt special because he didn't know that she was doing this with other men. So he thought he was the only one. The attorney Donaldson went really hard on this because he was like, you've got 25 years experience in the exotic dancing arena. Actually, the Punisher terms it professional dry humping is how he referred to what he did in his day job. He said in that 25 years of experience you've got. You can kind of pick up on when somebody wants something and when they don't. And in his impression of Cassie, it was that she was consenting to this.

Sakshi Vengatraman (12:05)

So Hayes, or the Punisher's overarching message was that Combs was really the one orchestrating all of these encounters, that he was giving directions, and oftentimes Cassie was uncomfortable or wincing or sighing at the directions. He did reference one time where he seemed to think Cassie was enjoying herself based on the fact that after oral sex, she moved her body closer, seemingly inviting penetrative sex. He did think that his sex acts with Cassie were consensual, but he did also emphasize that she would look to Diddy for consent. And he used those words specifically, that she would look to him and he inferred that she was getting his consent to have unprotected sex. For example.

Anoushka Mutanda Doughty (12:45)

We did have another person on the stand, one of the agents who was in the Homeland Security raids on Diddy's properties in March 2024. He showed some pictures, but we're going to pick up on more of that tomorrow because we've got the rest of that. But they did reveal, basically, when you leave the court, everybody kind of packs up and goes. But if you stand, stay behind at the end, you can hear who's coming next. We've got Dawn Hughes, who's a forensic psychologist, coming up. So that's expert testimony. And then they referenced a name. They used Kid Cudi's government name. So Kid Cudi is coming and we'll see you next episode.

Sakshi Vengatraman (13:15)

Thank you so much, Anoushka. Talk to you soon.

Anoushka Mutanda Doughty (13:25)

That was Sakshi Venkataraman, the BBC's New York digital reporter, speaking to me. Anushka Matandadowati for Diddy on Trial from BBC Sounds. And if you're listening in the UK and would like information or support on some of the issues raised in this episode, go to BBC.co.uk and please keep sending in your WhatsApp questions. You can find us at 033-01-23551. That's 033-01-235551. We'll do our best to answer them. And of course, on Thursdays, we have our weekly roundup with criminal defence attorney Sean Kent. So make sure you subscribe and turn on your push notifications so you.

Carol Cadwalader (14:08)

In today's digital world, it's easier than ever to invade someone's life and far harder to escape. Anyone determined enough to do harm can find a way to do harm. I'm Carol Cadwalader, an investigative journalist. In this podcast, I follow the story of Hannah, whose life was turned upside down by an anonymous stalker.

Anoushka Mutanda Doughty (14:28)

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