
‘Jane’ is questioned by Diddy’s defence lawyer about explicit texts
Loading summary
Rylan
This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the uk.
Ishleen Kaur
He was a huge music star with millions of fans around the globe.
Unnamed Music Commentator
He was like a household name, an international icon.
Ishleen Kaur
But his fame came at a cost.
Unnamed News Reporter
The Indian singer and rapper Sidhu Musevala has been shot dead near his home in the north Indian state of Punjab.
Ishleen Kaur
I'm Ishleen Kaur and I spent the last two years since searching for answers. Who wanted Sidhu Musiala dead and why?
Unnamed Music Commentator
Sidhu Musiala's murder can't be just an open and shut case.
Ishleen Kaur
World of Secrets the Killing Khor from the BBC World Service. Listen now, wherever you get your BBC podcasts.
Zing Singh
I'm Zing Singh.
Simon Jack
And I'm Simon Jack.
Zing Singh
And together we host Good Bad Billionaire.
Simon Jack
The podcast exploring the lives of some of the world's richest people.
Zing Singh
In the new season, we're setting our sights on some big names.
Simon Jack
Yep, LeBron James and Martha Stewart to name just a few.
Zing Singh
And as always, Simon and I are trying to decide whether we think they're good, bad or just another billionaire.
Simon Jack
That's good Bad Billionaire from the BBC World Service.
Zing Singh
Listen now, wherever you get your BBC podcasts.
Anoushka Mutandadawati
BBC Sounds Music Radio podcasts. Hello and welcome to Diddy on Trial from BBC Sounds with me, Anoushka Mutandadawati. A reminder, Diddy is on trial for charges of sex trafficking, racketeering with conspiracy and transportation for prostitution. All of these charges he's consistently denied. Today has been the start of the cross examination of Diddy's former partner, who is using the pseudonym Jane to protect her identity. It's just after 3pm Courts finished earlier than we were expecting, and it ended on a bit of a tense moment. Isabela Gomez Sarmiento, music reporter for National Public Radio, is here with Isabella. How did today start with Jane?
Isabela Gomez Sarmiento
So today really started with defense attorney Tanya Garagoz talking Jane through some of the things she testified about over the last few days. A lot of it was Ms. Garrigos asking Jane to read explicit text messages between herself and Combs, which seemed to imply that Jane was enthusiastic or at least helping to plan some of these, quote, hotel nights with entertainers.
Unnamed Legal Analyst
So the narrative we got from the prosecution was that Jane didn't particularly want to participate, but she did so out of love and wanting to make her lover. She called him her lover a lot and her partner happy. So in these text messages, is she directly instigating these hotel nights?
Isabela Gomez Sarmiento
So there are text messages of Combs asking, what do you want to do? What are we doing tonight? Things along those Lines. And Jane suggesting meeting up with entertainers or just sending, you know, quote, unquote fantasy talk that she's fantasizing about being with other men while Combs is in the room. She told the court that she sent these messages in the context of knowing that that's what Combs wanted to hear from her and that she felt there was an undertone or expectation for her to express those desires. But she did say repeatedly that she only really wanted to be with Combs and she didn't want to be with other men, despite what the text messages showed.
Unnamed Legal Analyst
And when she was reading these out on the stand, how explicit did they get?
Isabela Gomez Sarmiento
They got extremely explicit. Garagos asked Jane repeatedly to even explain some of the suggestive emojis and what their sexual connotations were. Reading out lots of sex acts and things that Jane wanted to do to other men or have done to her while Combs watched. I mean, it was a little tense in the courtroom as she was going through these very explicit messages over and over. A lot of them from November, December 2021.
Unnamed Legal Analyst
And another thing that we heard from Jane when she was giving her direct testimony is that she would have sex with these other men. Because in a similar way, we heard this from Cassie as well, because it was the prelude to her getting to spend one on one intimate time, she'd say, with her, quote, partner, quote, lover. Did she pick up on that today when she was answering these questions about why she was instigating hotel nights?
Isabela Gomez Sarmiento
Yeah. So the defense asked a lot about what kind of quality time Jane was spending with Combs, and especially because the prosecution made a big point of saying that Combs promised quality time in exchange for these hotel nights. Jane did repeatedly say that she would get about 30 to 60 minutes alone with Combs before any of the entertainers arrived. And that similarly, she loved after the hotel nights, going home with Combs, bathing him, massaging him, taking care of him, putting him to sleep, watching Dateline. So she said that those moments alone with him before and after the hotel nights were. Were really the only part that she enjoyed and why she went through with these encounters in the first place.
Unnamed Legal Analyst
And that is really critical to one of the elements of the sex trafficking charge, because we understand force, but something that's a bit vaguer and a bit looser that people might not immediately get is fraud.
Isabela Gomez Sarmiento
Right? Yeah. And we know for a fact that the prosecution is trying very hard to establish that this was sex trafficking by fraud, that Combs would promise Jane romantic trips, promise her date nights. And when she was already traveling to see him. Or when she would arrive, he would sort of spring the idea of entertainers on her. Today the defense made a lot of effort to point out text messages in which Jane was, like, recounting good quality time that she had spent with Combs or saying she had fun, she missed him, she wanted to spend time with him together again. So they are really trying to drive home this point of the fact that they were getting quality time together throughout the relationship.
Unnamed Legal Analyst
Another thing that Jane spoke about a lot in great detail in her direct testimony was being forced to participate throughout the full duration of these hotel nights and being told things like, quote, finish strong or keep going by Diddy.
Anoushka Mutandadawati
Am I right?
Unnamed Legal Analyst
And there were text messages where he seems to indicate that she has an option, whether she participates, which she can finish early.
Isabela Gomez Sarmiento
So, yeah, that testimony did come up again today, and Jane did repeat that often when she would try to give Combs subtle cues during the hotel nights that she wasn't feeling it or she wanted to end early, he would say things like, let's finish on a high note, meaning she should continue until he was ready for them to stop. However, there were text messages today of Combs saying that he wanted to have, quote, freak sex with Jane. And then he followed up with, or do you need a break? So Garagos made a point of having Jane read these messages and ask, was he offering you a break? And Jane said that although that's what was in writing, that she saw this more of a taunt or a tease, and that she felt like he wasn't genuinely offering her if she needed a beat, but more so it was sort of the back and forth, flirtatious banter and that she needed to say that she didn't need a break and that, of course she could keep going.
Unnamed Legal Analyst
We heard at the end of Jane's direct testimony about how she feels about Diddy now, and she says she prays for his healing and prays for his peace. Did they ask her, as they're walking through the timeline of their relationship, how she felt about him?
Isabela Gomez Sarmiento
She said she really loved him, that he was her favorite person in the world. There were moments where she said that she got a lot of trauma from the relationship, but when it came to talking about Combs directly, she said that, you know, he was larger than life. She said he wasn't the most affectionate person, but that during these hotel nights and the time directly before and after was when he was the most affectionate and that she was just head over heels in love with him and seeking out any chance she could get to spend time with him.
Unnamed Legal Analyst
And another element of the sex trafficking that the prosecution were working hard to establish is coercion, financial coercion. So Jane testifying that, yes, she lives still in a residence, as she terms it, that is being paid for by Diddy. Now, they asked her about other forms of income that she had.
Anoushka Mutandadawati
What did she have to say about that?
Isabela Gomez Sarmiento
So she did say that during the time she was dating Combs, she had a swimsuit line and a dress line, and she was still generating some income from social media posts, brands would pay her to promote their products, necklaces, et cetera. She said that in 2022, Combs gave her $20,000 to invest into her dress line. And she said that she has seen a profit from that since then, and he's never asked her for anything in return. But she did repeatedly say that she felt like she wasted those three years of her life that she was with Combs, that she felt like financially she could have been much more successful if she wasn't devoting so much of this time to the relationship. But the defense did make a point of signaling out that she had several streams of income during this time and that she was also receiving child support from the father of her child.
Unnamed Legal Analyst
And another element that has come up with Cassie, and we heard this a lot in opening statements, is the jealousy angle of this. Now, a lot of the witnesses, the defense, have said they were romantic partners of his who were jealous when he got into other relationships. Was Diddy, in Jane's recollection, upfront with her about non monogamy?
Isabela Gomez Sarmiento
Yeah. So Jane said that very early on, as soon as they started dating, that Combs told her that he is polyamorous. And she said she was okay with that, that she understood that she didn't want to see anybody else, but that she was okay with him seeing other people. Shortly after, they took a very romantic trip to Trix and Caicos and the Bahamas in 2021. She said that she was a little bit taken aback when she left, and Combs immediately flew other girls out. But she said this didn't significantly become a problem until later in the relationship when Combs began a very public relationship with the rapper known as Young Miami. Her real name's Carisha Brownlee. And Jane said, quote, I didn't sign up to date a man who was in a public relationship. So I think the idea there is that Jane was okay with polyamory as long as it wasn't like a public narrative that Combs had one girlfriend who wasn't her.
Unnamed Legal Analyst
Yeah. And anyone who was following young Miami or on Instagram at the time and engaged in that world, you'd see her and Diddy and very, very extravagant display, I suppose, of their relationship and his commitment to her. And she did speak about coming home. Jane, in her direct testimony and checking Instagram and seeing some sort of these things. How open was she talking about her jealousy in the cross examination?
Isabela Gomez Sarmiento
Yeah, that came up a lot again today. They referred to posts that Jane had seen of gifts or trips or gestures Combs had had with other women. There were some text messages of Jane saying that she was upset that Combs only used her for the hotel nights and she felt like she wasn't getting her end of the bargain when it came to a romantic relationship, not just a sexual relationship. And in particular, she was upset about a Chanel bag that Combs allegedly gifted Young Miami. And then Garagos responded with, well, didn't he gift you a Bottega bag? Things got a little bit tense because Jane said that she did. Then Garagos asked, what is a Bottega bag? And Jane responded, I'm sure you have one. There was a little bit of a gasp heard around the overflow room. Then Garagos asked, how much does the Bottega bag cost? And Jane responded, how much does my body cost? Then the judge interfered and sort of asked Jane to directly answer the questions without sarcasm. And Jane said, you know, the cost is a couple of thousand dollars.
Unnamed Legal Analyst
I just want to pick up on that little bit of a tense interaction that she had with Tenny Gerrigos, because Jane is extremely soft spoken, even when she's talking about, in some instances, violence or her own anger. So hearing that from you feels a little bit at odds with how she is in the courtroom.
Isabela Gomez Sarmiento
Even when she was being asked to read all of these text messages, she would ask Tenny Garrigos to pause and she would provide additional context, like saying, well, I was saying these things because that's what he wanted to hear, or I'm picking up on all these undertones that you can't read in the text messages. She was sort of pushing back at this idea that she was willingly participating in all of these things. And in that moment when Tenegiragos was really sort of asking her about the gifts, the value of the gifts, what the gifts were. She asked for a break. Shortly after, you know, they tried to continue with questioning. And then Jane said, you, Honor, can we please take a 10 minute break? And, you know, the courtroom adjourned for a few minutes.
Unnamed Legal Analyst
And as is the way with both the direct testimony and the cross examination, they do tend to follow a timeline of the relationship. This is just day one. What point did they bring us up to today?
Isabela Gomez Sarmiento
At the beginning, they did some jumping around, sort of establishing some of the big moments in the relationship. But towards the end of the day, we were still looking at very granular text exchanges up to December 2021. So we're still within the very first year of the relationship. That means, you know, there's like two and a half, three more years to get through tomorrow and Thursday when Ms. Garagos continues cross examining.
Unnamed Legal Analyst
Jan Isabela, thank you so much for filling us in.
Isabela Gomez Sarmiento
Thank you for having me.
Anoushka Mutandadawati
That was Isabela Gomez Sarmiento, music reporter for NPR here in the US and that's it for this episode of Diddy on Trial from BBC Sounds with me, Anoushka Mutandadawati. Make sure you subscribe and turn on your push notifications so you never miss a thing. And please keep sending us your questions for our resident criminal defence attorney, Sean Kent for our Thursday roundup episode. Finally, if you're in the UK and you need any support on the issues we've spoken about today, you can go to BBC.co.uk actionline.
Rylan
Hi guys, this is Rylan and I'm here to tell you about how to Be in Love from BBC Sounds. Now, as a single divorcee, I feel ready to find love again. But I want to see if there's a better way of going about it. In this series, I'm going to sit down with 12 incredible guests who are really going to help me rediscover what love truly means and how I can find it again. People like Stephen Fry, Louis Theroux, Matt and Emma Willis and many more. So join me on this journey as I explore how to be in love. Listen on BBC Sounds.
Ishleen Kaur
He was a huge music star with millions of fans around the globe.
Unnamed Music Commentator
He was like a housew, an international icon.
Ishleen Kaur
But his fame came at a cost.
Unnamed News Reporter
The Indian singer and rapper Sidhu Musevala has been shot dead near his home in the north Indian state of Punjab.
Ishleen Kaur
I'm Ishleen Kaur and I spent the last two years searching for answers. Who wanted Sidhu Musiala dead and why?
Unnamed Music Commentator
Siddhu Musiala's murder can't be just an open and shut case.
Ishleen Kaur
World of secrets that killing Kaur from the BBC World Service. Listen now, wherever you get your BBC podcasts.
Zing Singh
I'm Zing Singh and I'm Simon, Jack. And together we host Good Bad Billionaire.
Simon Jack
The podcast exploring the lives of some of the world's richest people.
Zing Singh
In the new season, we're setting our sights on some big names.
Simon Jack
Yep, LeBron James and Martha Stewart, to name just a few.
Zing Singh
And as always, Simon and I are trying to decide whether we think they're good, bad or just another billionaire that's.
Simon Jack
Good Bad Billionaire from the BBC World Service.
Zing Singh
Listen now, wherever you get your BBC podcasts.
Podcast Information:
In this pivotal episode, the cross-examination of Diddy’s former partner, referred to as Jane to protect her identity, marks a significant development in the trial. Hosted by Anoushka Mutandadawati, the episode provides a detailed breakdown of the courtroom proceedings, highlighting key testimonies, legal strategies, and emotional undertones that shape the case.
The prosecution presented a series of explicit text messages between Jane and Diddy, aiming to establish a narrative that Jane participated in illicit activities out of love and loyalty.
Defense Attorney Tanya Garagoz directed Jane to read messages suggesting her enthusiasm for orchestrating hotel nights with entertainers:
"What do you want to do? What are we doing tonight?" (02:43)
Legal Analyst highlighted the prosecution's stance:
"Jane didn't particularly want to participate, but she did so out of love and wanting to make her lover happy." (02:24)
Jane responded by contextualizing her messages:
"I sent these messages knowing that's what Combs wanted to hear... I only really wanted to be with Combs and I didn't want to be with other men." (02:27)
Jane detailed the coercive environment during the hotel nights, emphasizing her lack of genuine consent despite the veneer of choice.
Jane elaborated on feeling compelled to continue:
"He would say things like, 'let's finish on a high note,' meaning I should continue until he was ready to stop." (05:22)
Text messages revealed Diddy's contradictory offers, which Jane interpreted as taunting rather than genuine options:
"He wanted to have freak sex with Jane... Do you need a break?" (05:35)
Jane explained her reluctance to take breaks:
"I felt like he wasn't genuinely offering me if I needed a break... I had to say that I didn't need a break and that, of course, I could keep going." (05:42)
Jane conveyed her deep emotional attachment to Diddy, juxtaposed with the trauma experienced during their relationship.
Jane expressed her enduring feelings:
"I really loved him, he was my favorite person in the world." (06:24)
She reflected on the personal costs:
"I felt like I wasted three years of my life with Combs... I could have been much more successful financially if I wasn't devoting so much time to the relationship." (07:17)
The prosecution aimed to illustrate financial manipulation as a form of coercion in the sex trafficking charges.
Jane detailed her financial independence:
"I had a swimsuit line and a dress line... In 2022, Combs gave me $20,000 to invest into my dress line." (07:17)
Defense pointed out her multiple income streams:
"She had several streams of income and was receiving child support." (07:17)
Jane's testimony explored the complexities of Diddy's polyamorous lifestyle and its impact on their relationship.
Jane recounted Diddy's polyamorous disclosure:
"As soon as we started dating, Combs told me that he is polyamorous. I was okay with that as long as it wasn't a public narrative that he had one girlfriend who wasn't me." (08:22)
She addressed her jealousy over public relationships:
"I didn't sign up to date a man who was in a public relationship." (08:22)
A notable moment of tension arose during the examination of Diddy's gifting habits, highlighting the strain in Jane's testimony.
Discussion about gifts:
"He allegedly gifted Young Miami a Chanel bag." (09:05)
Defense challenged Jane on her receipt of a Bottega bag:
"He gifted you a Bottega bag?" (09:05)
Jane responded with frustration:
"How much does my body cost?" (09:05)
Judge intervened to restore order:
"Please answer the questions without sarcasm." (09:05)
Jane clarified the value of the bag:
"The cost is a couple of thousand dollars." (09:05)
This exchange underscored the emotional toll of the proceedings on Jane, who is typically soft-spoken.
Throughout the episode, legal experts dissect the strategies employed by both prosecution and defense:
Prosecution's Focus: Establishing sex trafficking through elements of fraud and financial coercion, using explicit communication and manipulative tactics to demonstrate lack of consent.
Defense's Approach: Highlighting Jane's financial independence and multiple income sources to counter claims of coercion, while questioning the authenticity of the prosecution's narrative of forced participation.
Emotional Weight: Jane's genuine affection for Diddy juxtaposed against the coercive circumstances aims to complicate the portrayal of consent and willingness in their interactions.
As the episode concludes, it’s clear that this was just the beginning of a multifaceted legal battle. The cross-examination covered the initial year of Jane and Diddy's relationship, with subsequent sessions slated to delve deeper into the complexities of their interactions and the broader implications of the case.
Listeners are left anticipating forthcoming episodes, which promise to continue unraveling the intricate dynamics of Diddy's trial, featuring more testimonies, legal arguments, and expert insights.
Notable Quotes:
Legal Analyst: "So the narrative we got from the prosecution was that Jane didn't particularly want to participate, but she did so out of love and wanting to make her lover happy." (02:24)
Jane: "I really loved him, he was my favorite person in the world." (06:36)
Jane: "I felt like I wasted three years of my life with Combs... I could have been much more successful financially if I wasn't devoting so much time to the relationship." (07:17)
Jane: "How much does my body cost?" (09:05)
This episode provides a comprehensive look into the emotional and legal complexities surrounding Diddy's trial, offering listeners a nuanced perspective on the allegations and the personal dimensions of those involved.