Kid Cudi: ‘Porsche destroyed by Molotov cocktail’

Summary

Podcast Summary: Diddy On Trial Episode: *Kid Cudi: ‘Porsche destroyed by Molotov cocktail’
Release Date: May 23, 2025
Host: Anushka Mutandadouati
Produced by: BBC Sounds

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Introduction and Overview

In this gripping episode of Diddy On Trial, hosted by Anushka Mutandadouati and presented by BBC Sounds, listeners are taken deep into the tumultuous courtroom saga surrounding hip-hop mogul Sean "Diddy" Combs. The trial, marked by sensational allegations ranging from sex trafficking to racketeering, continues to captivate the public's attention. This episode, released on May 23, 2025, focuses particularly on the explosive testimony of rapper Kid Cudi and the subsequent legal analyses provided by criminal defense attorney Sean Kent.

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Key Developments in the Trial

Courtroom Chaos and Emerging Evidence
At the heart of this episode is the latest week’s developments in Lower Manhattan’s Federal Courthouse. Anushka sets the stage amid heavy rain, emphasizing the intensity of the ongoing trial against Diddy, who faces severe charges including sex trafficking, transportation for prostitution, and racketeering with conspiracy. Diddy maintains his innocence, having entered a not guilty plea in September.

Notable Exhibits and Testimonies
The week saw the prosecution introduce a slew of incriminating evidence:

• Personal Items: Boxes of 7-inch heels and baby oil astroglide were uncovered during raids on Diddy’s Miami residence.
• Weapon Components: Parts of an AR15 were presented to the jury, signaling potential ties to violent activities.
• Witness Testimonies: Noteworthy witnesses included:
  • George Kaplan (Timestamp: [01:40]): A former executive assistant who painted Diddy as a "larger than life" figure and detailed volatile relationships with Cassie and Gina, hinting at underlying violence within Diddy’s personal dynamics.
  • Kid Cudi (Scott Mascudi) (Timestamp: [03:38]): Offered dramatic accounts of alleged confrontations with Diddy, including an incident where a Molotov cocktail was reportedly thrown onto his Porsche, resulting in extensive damage. Cudi described meeting Diddy at Soho House in Hollywood, portraying Diddy as eerily calm and almost supervillain-like (Timestamp: [05:37]).
  • Cassie’s Mother (Timestamp: [10:08]): Provided brief yet impactful testimony about Diddy's coercive financial demands and subsequent return of funds, underscoring the alleged blackmail tactics.
  • The Punisher (Timestamp: [12:12]): A male exotic dancer whose testimony aimed to establish the logistics of the alleged sex trafficking operations.

Defense’s Strategy and Counterarguments
Sean Kent, Diddy’s defense attorney, critiqued the prosecution’s portrayal of the alleged racketeering activities, suggesting that the defense aims to present the situation as a toxic relationship devoid of the purported power dynamics. He noted the defense's focus on Cassie’s purported deceit and Diddy's jealousy as factors contributing to the alleged violence and chaos.

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In-Depth Analysis of Kid Cudi’s Testimony

Kid Cudi’s testimony emerged as a pivotal moment in the trial. Described as unfiltered and fervent, Cudi recounted two harrowing incidents:

1. Home Invasion: Cudi alleged that Diddy broke into his home, leading to a confrontation where he was met with unsettling calmness from Diddy.
2. Molotov Cocktail Attack: He vividly described discovering his Porsche damaged by a Molotov cocktail, reacting with disbelief: "I said, what the f." (Timestamp: [03:38])

These allegations are central to the prosecution’s case, aiming to depict a pattern of violent coercion by Diddy. However, defense attorney Sean Kent expressed skepticism about the prosecution’s ability to substantiate these claims, particularly highlighting the lack of concrete evidence linking Diddy directly to the arson.

Quote Highlight:
Cudi stated, “Diddy was looking like a Marvel supervillain” (Timestamp: [05:37]), painting a chilling image meant to sway the jury’s perception of Diddy’s character.

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Character Testimonies and Their Impact

Cassie’s Best Friend – Carey Morgan (Timestamp: [08:17]):
Morgan provided a nuanced view of Cassie's life under Diddy's influence, describing her as "completely lost her spark" and often hiding out due to fear of Diddy’s aggression. Her testimony balanced the portrayal of a loving dynamic with instances of abuse, aiming to demonstrate the psychological manipulation at play.

Defense's Challenge to Credibility:
Sean Kent criticized the prosecution for inadvertently undermining Cassie’s credibility through witnesses like Kid Cudi, who, in Kent’s view, detracts from Cassie’s victimhood by presenting conflicting narratives.

Quote Highlight:
Morgan detailed a specific assault: “He put his hands around her throat and threw a wooden hanger at the back of her head” (Timestamp: [09:53]).

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Expert Testimony and Psychological Insights

Dr. Dawn Hughes, an expert witness, outlined the psychological mechanisms of abuse, including isolation, devaluing, discarding, and love bombing. This framework was used to contextualize Cassie’s relationship with Diddy, illustrating the cyclical nature of their interactions and the challenges victims face in escaping such toxic dynamics.

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Legal Strategies and Jury Considerations

Defense Tactics:
Sean Kent emphasized the defense’s approach to maintain a favorable jury perception by avoiding aggressive attacks on witnesses, instead allowing Diddy’s team to present their narrative without appearing combative.

Prosecution’s Approach:
The prosecution continues to build a case centered on Diddy’s control over his organization, likening it to a corrupt, racketeering entity designed to facilitate illicit activities. They aim to establish a "cult-like" influence exerted by Diddy over his associates and operations.

Vote of Confidence:
As the trial enters a four-day weekend, the judge commended the court's progress and cautioned the jury against external influences, underscoring the trial’s significance and the need for impartial deliberation.

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Listener Engagement and Legal Insights

Throughout the episode, host Anushka engages with Sean Kent, who responds to listener questions with insightful legal perspectives. Key topics include:

• Consent: Kent clarified that consent can be withdrawn at any time, a critical point in evaluating the interactions between Cassie and Diddy.
• Character Witnesses: He explained the legal limitations on presenting good character evidence, dismissing the likelihood of high-profile individuals like Jennifer Lopez testifying on Diddy’s behalf.
• Future Testimonies: Kent anticipates continued focus on Cassie and related witnesses, suggesting a methodical prosecution strategy aimed at reinforcing their narrative.

Notable Quote:
Kent highlighted the complexity of courtroom dynamics, stating, “Diddy is presumed innocent until the government proves their case” (Timestamp: [18:11]).

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Conclusion and Forward Look

The episode concludes with a reflection on the trial’s second week, encapsulating the intense testimonies and strategic legal maneuvers. The narrative remains tightly focused on building a comprehensive understanding of Diddy’s alleged criminal activities, while the defense counters with attempts to humanize their client and challenge the prosecution’s evidence. As the trial pauses for the Memorial Day weekend, anticipation builds for the subsequent weeks, where further revelations and legal battles are expected to unfold.

Listeners are encouraged to subscribe and engage with the podcast, providing their questions and insights as the trial progresses.

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Additional Content: Related Stories and Future Episodes

While the primary focus remains on Diddy’s trial, the episode briefly touches on other high-profile cases, such as the Luigi Mangione murder trial, illustrating the broader context of legal battles that captivate public interest. These segments serve to parallel the complexities of high-stakes courtroom dramas and the media’s role in shaping public perception.

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Key Takeaways

• Diddy’s Trial: Centered on severe charges with extensive evidence presented, including personal items and violent testimonies.
• Kid Cudi’s Testimony: A turning point with dramatic allegations against Diddy, aiming to establish a pattern of violent coercion.
• Legal Strategies: The prosecution aims to depict Diddy as a controlling, racketeering figure, while the defense focuses on dismantling witness credibility and presenting Diddy’s side of the story.
• Psychological Insights: Expert testimony underscores the cyclical abuse and manipulation within Diddy’s organization.
• Jury Perception: Both sides are acutely aware of the importance of jury sympathies, striving to present their narratives without alienating listeners.

This episode of Diddy On Trial delivers a compelling and detailed exploration of one of hip-hop’s most controversial figures, offering listeners an in-depth understanding of the ongoing legal battle through firsthand testimonies and expert analyses.

Transcript

[Anushka Mutandadouati]

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the uk. BBC Sounds Music Radio podcasts.

[Neda Taufik]

Hello and welcome to Diddy on Trial from BBC Sounds with me, Anushka Mutandadouati here at the Federal courthouse in Lower Manhattan where it's absolutely chucking it down. So, as you know, Sean, Diddy Combs trial is ongoing, but this is our episode where we round up all the big developments from court during the week, starting with the testimony of rapper Kid Cudi who was in the court today. Later, we're going to be hearing from criminal defence attorney Sean Kent with his stellar analysis of what's been going on and he's going to be answering some of your questions. So what have we seen this week in court? We've had pictures of baby oil astroglide, boxes of 7 inch heels that were found in the raids on Diddy's Miami home. We've seen components of an AR15 held up the jury to see. We've heard from a male exotic dancer called the Punisher. We've also heard from Cassie's mum, and that was before the week was even over. A reminder, Diddy is charged with sex trafficking, transportation for prostitution and racketeering with conspiracy. He denies all the charges consistently and he entered a not guilty plea in September. And just a warning before we begin, this program contains descriptions of violence and sexual violence. I'm here with the BBC's New York correspondent, Neda Taufik. Neda, everybody wants to know about Kid Cudi, a former romantic partner of Cassie. What went down today in court?

[Sean Kent]

Well, before Kid Cudi took the stand, we actually heard more from George Kaplan, who was an executive assistant of Diddy's for a while. And I think George Kaplan really gave us again this picture of Diddy as a larger than life figure. Right. He even used the word icon. He said the size of his business was the size of the earth. Essentially. When the defense asked him if he had fun with him, he's like, I wouldn't call it that. But he said just like other relationships, theirs was complicated and that ultimately he decided to leave his dream job because he just couldn't tolerate and put up with how he described his two girlfriends, Cassie and Gina. He said those kind of tense and angry moments where he said that he didn't see the women injured, but he could hear and tell there was kind of violence in that relationship. So really interesting to hear him say he has respect for Diddy, he stayed in touch with Diddy, but that he just couldn't tolerate some of his behavior.

[Neda Taufik]

The bit that really stuck out for me with George was when he was talking about being a young man working for him, and he was like, this God amongst men is talking to me. And it reminded me of David James. And there was that. What was that quote that they had in the office?

[Sean Kent]

Yeah. Actually, the person interviewing him pointed to a picture of Diddy on the wall and said, this is Diddy's kingdom, and we're just all here to serve. And we also heard from the prosecution in opening statements. Right. That Diddy referred to himself as a king. So they're building up this picture consistently throughout testimony. And this is really to show the jury, look, this is numerous people now saying the same thing, that they witnessed the violence, that Diddy was volatile, that he wanted everyone to essentially serv. Without question.

[Neda Taufik]

Yeah. And I think George described Diddy as infectious, and that kind of spoke a little bit to Cassie's situation. And when she went back and then she'd leave and then she'd go back again, which brought us onto the testimony of Kid Cudi.

[Sean Kent]

Yeah. The thing that really struck me about Kid Cudi, who was referred to, obviously, by his real name, Scott Mascudi, was he really was himself on the stand. He didn't come in soft spoken or, you know, timid or somber at all. He was there kind of stretching in between questions when needed and breaks and answering questions in a very unfiltered way. So when he describes two instances that were kind of the most graphic, obviously, one where he alleges Diddy broke into his home, and then another where he alleges that Diddy or one of his associates threw a Molotov cocktail into his Porsche. He said he called Diddy when he heard he was in his house, saying, are you in my house? Like, that's what he recalled saying to Diddy. And apparently Diddy told him, I'm over here waiting for you. When he got there, Diddy wasn't there. But then also later, because the court was shown these pictures of his car with a hole in the soft rooftop, the doors open, all of it kind of soot everywhere, car burnt out. He was asked, what was your reaction when you saw the car? And he said, I said, what the f. So, you know, just a regular person's reaction to finding yourself in the situation where you thought, you know, the girl you're seeing is no longer with someone that you work with in the music industry. And the defense played on that, saying, you know, Cassie played you the way she played him. You thought they were apart. And he acknowledged that. Yeah, I Thought they were broken up. And so he talks about how the relationship ended because it just got out of control. He said the drama got out of control. He thought also he needed give Cassie space because things were just getting so heated and they both needed space for their safety.

[Neda Taufik]

And one of the most interesting things in Kid Cudi's recollection of events was when he spoke about what happened after the fact. Like him and Cassie had broken up, but they had this kind of three way meeting, I guess, hashing out issues with him, Diddy and Cassie.

[Sean Kent]

Yeah. So just to set the scene, Kid Cudi says, you know, after my car was blown up, I thought I should probably talk to Diddy. He says they agreed to meet at Soho House in Hollywood. When he gets there, Diddy's security guard escorts him to a room that on one side is filled with windows. And he describes Diddy looking like a Marvel supervillain. He used that exact phrase. Diddy was looking out the window. His hands were kind of clasped behind his back. And so Kid Cudi just approaches him and he said, Diddy was eerily calm to the point where it was almost unsettling for Cudi. He said it was weird. He kept offering me water. He was very calm. But he said they talked through the scenario. Eventually Cassie joined, which he didn't expect, and it made him a little sad. And then at the end of the meeting, he says they left it where they just got up and shook hands. And he said, I took that opportunity looking him in the eye, shaking his hand to say, what about my car? And he said, Diddy responded, I don't know what you're talking about. Eventually he sees Diddy. A few years later, Diddy was there with his daughter. And he said Diddy came to him and just apologized. And he said, at that point, I just made peace with it. I wasn't expecting anything more from him.

[Neda Taufik]

The defense made a point of saying a few times, like, Cassie played both you and Diddy because Diddy didn't know that she was with you and you didn't know that she was still with Diddy. And they emphasized that a few times.

[Sean Kent]

Yeah, look, I mean, this goes back to their opening statement. The defense, they keep trying to paint Cassie as somebody who cheated on Diddy. And Diddy is somebody who was just insanely jealous as well. And that jealousy made him vomit, volatile. It's this effort to show that actually there wasn't a power dynamic, that Diddy didn't hold the power the way the prosecution say he did, that this was just A toxic relationship, both parties at fault.

[Neda Taufik]

And that was today. And now we're going into four day.

[Sean Kent]

Weekend, Memorial Day weekend. Yeah. So here in the US Monday is a federal holiday. People are off, but also here in court, they get Friday off. And so the judge actually told everyone, good job. You know, you've been making great progress this week. It's a well deserved break. He told the lawyers, I'm sure you're gonna go sleep now, and reminded the jury that, you know, it's a long break. So just to make sure not to talk to anybody about this case, not to look up anything and just thanking them for their service.

[Neda Taufik]

And that wraps up the second week of the trial of Sean Diddy Combs. But for people who haven't been following along every single day, if we could just round up the week, Monday, I felt was all about Carey Morgan, which was Cassie's best friend. I thought the stuff that she had to say was really interesting in painting a pict of what Cassie's life was like at the time.

[Sean Kent]

Yeah. And look, she actually hasn't been in touch with Cassie for years. They've had a falling out. So unlike the defense's attempt to paint other characters as like, overly sympathetic to Cassie, Carey Morgan is seen as somebody who is neutral. Right. She was her best friend for 17 years. They met in high school. But her testimony went into two different instances where she said Diddy was overly aggressive with Cassie. The picture she paints is of Cassie, someone who she said had completely lost her spark after years with Diddy kind of cowering and being very afraid of Diddy and actually hiding out at times for hours, as was in the case in Jamaica, when she kind of ran after Diddy, apparently grabbed her by her hair because she was taking too long in the bathroom and dragged her out the house and threw her down, her head hitting a brick. But she also talked about on cross examination how they all had fun together, that this was very much a loving dynamic. These weren't just Diddy's employees. They considered them friends. And when she stopped talking to Cassie, it was a big loss in her life to lose the rest of those people. So again, it was the defense trying to show this isn't racketeering. These aren't employees that are helping Diddy be a criminal mastermind. But Carey Morgan, under the direct examination, made it very clear that oftentimes, you know, she would look to the security guards or others to see if they were going to do anything about Diddy hitting Cassie and nobody would step up.

[Neda Taufik]

And the breakdown of Their relationship was interesting because Kerry alleges that she was assaulted by Diddy in 2018, that he put his hands around her throat and threw a wooden hanger at the back of her head. She said that the way that Cassie dealt with that was ultimately what caused the breakdown of a 17 year friendship.

[Sean Kent]

Like you said, she said that she hired a lawyer after that, but that Cassie asked her to meet at a pizza joint and told her she was milking it and she was over exaggerating what had happened to her. And then she handed her a non disclosure agreement and $30,000 and Carrie at that point took it. But she said she was really hurt that Cassie wasn't taking her side and she didn't speak to her since. And she, you know, noted, you know, even though Cassie's moved on with her life, Cassie hasn't reached out to her either. So Cassie, you know, prosecutors set that up a bit early on talking to Cassie about why she's testifying in this case. And Cassie spoke about how she knows she hurt a lot of people and didn't treat them the way they should have been treated at the time. And she's carried that guilt. And so part of this for her is part of that healing enclosure.

[Neda Taufik]

And then on Tuesday, we actually got a chance to hear from Cassie's mom. It wasn't the longest testimony and to be honest, I expected her to get quite emotional on the stand, but that wasn't really what happened.

[Sean Kent]

You would figure Cassie's mom, they'd want to go into many details, but you know, Cassie testified how she really kept a lot from her mother. But we know that there was that email she wrote again going back to Kid Cudi. When Diddy found out about the relationship, you know, Cassie on the stand talked about the threats he made and threatening to release one of the freak off videos on Christmas Day and another after and threats to her life and cuddies. And so her mother saying when she got the email, you know, she was just essentially devastated to receive that. And then she detailed an instance where Diddy demanded $20,000 from the family. And Cassie's mom said they paid that, but that a few days later, I think four days later, Diddy gave the money back. So her testimony was quite brief, but again trying, I think for prosecutors to show that this was blackmail, coercion, all part of their case.

[Neda Taufik]

After that we had some testimony from somebody called the Punisher. Now I look, I get, I get it, I get why that is number one in the headlines. The name itself is pretty stops you in your tracks. It was similar stuff to what we'd heard from the previous male commercial sex worker. And also Nedda, just tell us where he actually got that name from.

[Sean Kent]

So he carried it from his youth, apparently playing basketball with his friends. That's what they used to call him, the Punisher. So maybe not the backstory people were expecting for an escort with that name, but he carried it on. And look, I think we have to remind people that, you know, there are salacious details that come out in these types of cases, but there is a very practical reason why they're having these escorts testify. One of the char is transport to engage in prostitution. And so the government just really does need to show that somebody was transported across state lines and paid for sex. So you get that in this testimony. And yeah, just like the other escort, he kind of detailed what was expected in those freak offs and how it all went down.

[Neda Taufik]

And he said a lot of it. He never got the signals from Cassie that she wasn't enjoying herself and detailed one instance where he felt like she was initiating going further on like performing different sexual acts. So that was kind of speaking to the defense's argument that she was a willing participant in the freak offs. We also had testimony from a Homeland Security officer who was part of the Miami raids on Diddy's, one of Diddy's homes. And he kind of, he testified about finding the ingredients that other witnesses have told us are the essentials for a freak off.

[Sean Kent]

This is the Miami home. I'm sure we're going to get to the LA home. But the agent spoke about how, you know, they get a list of items to look for when they conduct these searches. And there were photos shown of everything from the baby oil that we've heard plenty about to lingerie and high heels and drugs and Gucci bags and other places. But we also saw, for example, the different gun parts and guns that were found in the home. Some were wrapped in towels, some were in suitcases, in clothes. And the government made the point to address that serial numbers were scratched off some of these guns. And that essentially just makes it harder to trace where the gun came from. But the defense then came back, you know, asking about whether DNA was collected, saying that that's another way to pull hair samples, fingerprints from these guns to find out who they belong to. But the agent wasn't the one to conduct any of that forensic examination after the fact, so he couldn't say whether that was done or not. So again, we just kind of see the defense trying to poke holes Take the sting out of some of the testimony. Diddy is presumed innocent until the government proves their case and the jury finds that they have. And so they never know what's going to resonate with the jury.

[Neda Taufik]

And then, of course, that brings us to today and the end of the second week of this trial. Neda, thanks so much for coming and breaking that down for us. That was the BBC's New York correspondent, Neda Talfi. So now I'm back in the BBC.

[Anushka Mutandadouati]

Bureau, and as always, I am ready to unpack what has been going on this week with our resident criminal defense attorney, Sean Kent. Hi, Sean.

[Sean Kent]

Hey, how are you doing?

[Neda Taufik]

Sean, the first thing that I want.

[Anushka Mutandadouati]

To ask you about is this kid Cudi testimony. We've been waiting for it. He was kind of a. A star witness in his own right. We got the testimony today.

[Neda Taufik]

It wasn't quite what a lot of folks were expecting. How did it play out for you?

[Sean Kent]

From what I was reading and the way it played out to me handily, it didn't sound like the United States proved arson. They proved suspected arson. What I was surprised about, what I was shocked about is I thought the United States would or could have offered immunity to somebody who actually burned the car and they were going to come in and testify and say Cudi told us that his car was thus and Diddy is the person who burned the car. That was the assumption. But instead it was just Cudi basically saying that Puff Daddy is a marvel super villain.

[Anushka Mutandadouati]

But I don't understand why. How can he say things about Diddy.

[Neda Taufik]

With no like corroborating evidence?

[Anushka Mutandadouati]

Why couldn't they just be like, well, that's his own opinion or it's just made up. There's no facts.

[Sean Kent]

The first rule that we hear all the time is hearsay, a long phrase for saying that if somebody says something about me, they need to be there. So it's sort of like you can't talk in rumors. She said this, and he said this. Well, that person needs to be there unless it's an actual defendant, as in Diddy.

[Anushka Mutandadouati]

How come no one said when he said, I went up to that room and he looked like a marvel villain. How come they didn't say, well, judge, I don't know. Leading the I don't know.

[Sean Kent]

That could have been an objection. That's a present center pression. But that is his impression of what he saw and what it looked like to me, he looked like this. This is my opin how he looked. Could they have objected? Yes. And sometimes you got to Be careful because you said it. We say the word objection. Judge, this is a problem. And the problem is it then highlights it to the jury because the jury's already heard it and you're saying, objection, and you have to be careful. The jury's like, why is the defense trying to hide stuff? But that Marvel super villain visual, I still have it in my head seeing Diddy in the room. And of course, that amazing testimony that Diddy and his boys broke into his house and opened his gifts and hid his dog inside of the room. That's like a skit from a movie.

[Anushka Mutandadouati]

Yeah. So the part of the testimony went quite hard on the fact that, well, Cassie was playing both of you because she told you she was single. She told Diddy she was single. I don't see how this is building a RICO case. What's that got to do with the federal charges?

[Sean Kent]

Have you noticed they keep sprinkling in some of the Secret Service agents who are talking about the stuff that they have found in some of the places, and they talk about the computers. I'll be very curious if, towards the end of some of this information is going to be a lot of stuff that were found on the computers that ties a lot of this information in. Because what has ended up happening with Kid Cudi's testimony is he's actually, to me, from the reading of it, hurt the credibility of Cassie's testimony, who is supposedly their star. And it's. The United States isn't doing a good job of building Cassie up, but through their witnesses, they're also knocking down her credibility. Knocking down that she's a victim and possibly making the jury just not like her. That's the way it reads when I read it.

[Neda Taufik]

And then. So if we take a step back.

[Anushka Mutandadouati]

And look at the rest of the week, we've had Cassie's best friend, ex best friend on the stand. We've had two different assistants. First of all, Cassie's best friend. What did you make of what she had to say?

[Sean Kent]

I'm taking this now in the lens because we've also already had the expert testify. And so to me, it was clear that the purpose of Cassie's best friend was to go for the expert. And you watch the expert testimony. The assumption is that the expert was gonna testify to the fact that when people are finding themselves in these situations, they start to isolate. And so the purpose of putting her best friend was in there is to show that this was isolation, that she hasn't talked to her anymore, that she has isolated herself from friends. What checks off some of the stuff the expert is saying.

[Anushka Mutandadouati]

Yeah. So we had the expert testimony of Dr. Dawn Hughes and like you say, she did outline what she kind of described as the steps of abuse. So we have isolation, we devaluing, we have discarding and then we have things like love bombing. So you're constantly trying to return to that state where there's love and there's kindness and it goes in a circular motion with alleged victims, which is why they might not choose to leave. So I understood that from how she was tying in the testimony of Cassie's ex best friend, who did seem to have extra credibility purely on the fact that she doesn't like Cassie and they haven't spoken.

[Sean Kent]

She doesn't like Cassie, doesn't talk to her, not a friend of hers whatsoever. Those, to me are always the most credible witnesses. She made it clear, I don't want to be here, I'm not friends with her. The government has subpoenaed me to make me be here. And I'm still telling you my truth. I still watch the abuse. That guy over there is not a good person.

[Anushka Mutandadouati]

I don't understand the decision making that the lawyers go through when they deciding how they're going to be with people, because her testimony was not positive for the defense. But Mark Agnifolo, he was funny, he was light on his feet, he was complimentary, she was laughing, he was laughing, the room was laughing and everybody kind of took a step out of house. Serious and quite dark it's been for the rest of the time that we've been in there. You know, they were joking about modelling, she was joking about being old, et cetera, all these different things. But then David James takes the sand, who is a former executive assistant of Diddy, who is saying similarly damaging things. But the vibe between him and Mark Agnifolo was. It was tense, it was combative. I mean, at one point, David James was like, you're asking bad questions. Everybody in the room I was in was like, ooh, what's going on? Would you pick and choose how you act with somebody? And what's the logic behind that?

[Sean Kent]

You absolutely do. There's an unwritten rule, happy jurors don't convict. And so what you want to try to do is you always want to make a witness, your own witness. You want to make a witness on your side. And so if the person is giving you the information, you don't attack them because you don't have to. And you usually try to make that choice. Most good lawyers and Diddy's team is filled with great lawyers. They make that choice during direct testimony, how this person is acting when they're talking to the United States. And so the assumption is, when Mark was watching her testify, he knew she will give me information without being combative, so I will be nice to her. And the opposite. He probably saw that this witness, and maybe they have talked, maybe they have seen his interviews, and they said, this witness will not be good to me, so I need to go after him. There is an art to cross examination to make sure you get your point across. And we don't know because all the defense attorneys know the smoking gun that the federal government has. And so maybe there is a reason that they're saying something else is coming out and that's the witness I need to go after.

[Anushka Mutandadouati]

And then that brings me on to George Kaplan, who we had today, who was the second executive assistant that they spoke to. Once again, completely different vibe, Very positive. I mean, George Kaplan's testimony, a lot of it was quite positive about Diddy. You know, he inspired me. I'd never be where I am today if it wasn't for the business training that he'd given me. And about work ethic, et cetera. They were asking him about what was it like to work at bad boy when you were younger. And he was like, well, I was this young guy and here was this God amongst men talking to me. That reminded me of David James testimony. And they spoke about this in the defense's opening statements, that he did refer to himself as a king. That like he's this all encompassing, larger than life character and you get swept up into his orbit and it's almost impossible to leave. I mean, one journalist in the lift, she was like. It sounded cult like. That's what she said.

[Sean Kent]

It sounds rico like if you want to be technical, racketeer, influence, corrupt organization. Is the way that I look at it that they're helping the United States prove that this is a corrupt organization. The federal government has made it clear the purpose of this organization was to help Diddy with his commercial sex acts. That is the overreaching purpose, if you will, of this organization. The purpose of the arson was because somebody who he had a commercial sex act. Cassie had left him. All of these things were tied into helping Diddy with his butt naked baby oil freak off parties. And to me calling this. He's this cult like creature. He is this godlike creature. This is going along with what the government is saying, that this is an organization all at one purpose to make.

[Neda Taufik]

That guy Feel good, as you know, because I'm.

[Anushka Mutandadouati]

I talk to you a lot about the questions that we're getting from people. This one says thank you for the podcast. Finding the legality of the trial very interesting. I have a question regarding consent. So this has come up, up a lot. Presumably consent can be withdrawn up until the moment of the act and during. So if Cassie were to allege that she may have sent those messages to placate him. So messages saying, I always want to freak off. I'm ready for a freak off whenever you are, et cetera, to placate him. And then at a later time withdrew consent. And she testified this. Can that not negate Diddy's presumption of consent from those. This is a really good question.

[Sean Kent]

That is the smartest question I've ever seen in my life, bro.

[Anushka Mutandadouati]

Our listeners are smart, man. What can I say?

[Sean Kent]

Yeah, there you go.

[Anushka Mutandadouati]

So, yeah, so she's putting consent in black and white in these texts. But absolutely consent can be withdrawn. So how does that work in the eyes of the law?

[Sean Kent]

Yeah, you're exactly right. I mean, that's how it works in the eye of the law. At the end of the case, the judge is going to give jury charges. Okay. And the jury charges is when he tells the jury what the law is. And he will be able to tell the jury if somebody requests about consent, when can consent be withdrawn, and so forth. Now that was also from the United States. But yes, consent can be withdrawn at any point in time. Every woman should does know that it doesn't matter what the relationship, doesn't matter a marriage at any point in time, a woman can take away the consent to her own body. And the law absolutely agrees with that.

[Anushka Mutandadouati]

The next one is, well, this has come up a lot. Do you think the defense could call ex girlfriend Jennifer Lopez, Diddy's ex, as a character witness? If not, why not?

[Sean Kent]

That, believe it or not, is a really good question because usually we do not let let actions of good character come into evidence. You can't just randomly put someone's good character evidence. Because when you put in someone's good character, what insat does is it opens the door to the United States to put in the bad character. So let's say Diddy's case is to put 20 women who say, you know what? He never assaulted me. He was a great boyfriend to me. He was an awesome person to me. You remember all in that fighting that the defense did at the beginning of the trial that says, we don't want these prior sexual assaults we don't want these prior accusations. We want all these things that they're accused of. Keep that out. Well, they put in his good character. All of that stuff comes in because the United States gets to talk about his bad character. So, no, I don't think there's any way in the world they would bring Jennifer Lopez or any ex girlfriend to come in there and talk about how wonderful of a person he is.

[Anushka Mutandadouati]

Just as a final point, do you think now, you know, at the end of the second week and we've got this four day weekend, they're going to start moving away from talking about Cassie.

[Sean Kent]

The federal government, when they're trying a case, they're very methodical on their plan. I'm sure they have in their office a big board and I think this was always their plan. And as soon as we got into the Kid Cudi Cassie testimony, it'll be the next witness.

[Anushka Mutandadouati]

Sean, thank you so much for breaking that down for me this week. I'll see you next Thursday, guys. Please keep sending in your questions. I mean those questions today, they were brilliant.

[Sean Kent]

Those are really good questions. Back in a law school exam. What is that?

[Anushka Mutandadouati]

You need to start doing some recruiting. So Sean's practice is in South Carolina if anybody wants to go and check it out.

[Sean Kent]

Thank you for the emails that I'll be getting now.

[Anushka Mutandadouati]

I can come and make the tea. Actually, I'm not so good at tea. Coffee. I could come and make the coffee. Shawn, thank you so much. We'll see you next week for another Thursday roundup.

[Sean Kent]

Thank y' all for having me. I much appreciate it. Thank you so much.

[Anushka Mutandadouati]

Sean, thank you so much for coming and breaking that down for us. That was our resident criminal defense attorney, Sean Kent. And that's it for this episode of Diddy on Trial from BBC Sounds with me, Anushka Mutandadawati. Make sure you subscribe and turn on your push notifications so you never miss a thing. Keep sending us your questions on WhatsApp at 033-0123,551. And if you've been affected by any of the issues in this program and you're in the UK, you can find some support at www.BBC.co.uk Actionline.

[Lily Allen]

It's not funny. It's true.

[Sean Kent]

Lily Allen and Makita Oliver KE some questions for you. BBC Sounds. Tell me what you've enjoyed about our podcast so far.

[Lily Allen]

I like that you've got more and more comfortable in this space and I've watched you show all parts of yourself. We've both cried.

[Sean Kent]

Miss me With Lily Allen and Makita Oliver.

[Neda Taufik]

We're just us having a chat.

[Lily Allen]

Feels like we've been doing it forever.

[Sean Kent]

We kind of have.

[Anushka Mutandadouati]

Listen on BBC Sounds.

[Makita Oliver]

A man is shot dead on the streets of New York.

[Sean Kent]

A huge manhunt and a nationwide police appeal led here.

[Makita Oliver]

The suspect, Luigi Mangione, was arrested and charged with the murder of Brian Thompson, chief executive of a major US Healthcare and insurance company. Mangione denies the charges against him, and reaction to the case went viral.

[Neda Taufik]

I've never seen anything like that before.

[Makita Oliver]

In the Mangione trial podcast, we're exploring how this case has divided opinion online, unpicking the facts from conspiracy theories and delving into the debate around the healthcare system in the US and we're bringing you major developments as the case unfolds in the courtroom. The Mangione trial from the BBC World Service. Listen now wherever you get your podcasts.