Victim 3: 'Diddy should be freed'

Summary

Fame Under Fire: "Victim 3: 'Diddy should be freed'" – Episode Summary

In the August 7, 2025 episode of Fame Under Fire hosted by Anushka Mutanda-Doughy, the spotlight is cast on high-profile controversies involving celebrities and influencers. This episode delves into the ongoing legal saga of Sean "Diddy" Combs, explores the provocative actions of sex worker Bonnie Blue, and examines the multifaceted legal battles faced by Andrew and Tristan Tate. Here's a detailed breakdown of the key discussions, insights, and conclusions from the episode.

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1. The Diddy Combs Legal Battle and Victim Three's Revelation

Anushka Mutanda-Doughy opens the episode by revisiting the high-profile trial of Sean "Diddy" Combs. Central to the discussion is the enigmatic "Victim Three," Gina, a former romantic partner whose absence during the trial has sparked widespread speculation and debate.

• Victim Three's Absence and Recent Statement:

  • Gina, initially a pivotal figure in the superseding indictments against Diddy, failed to testify during the trial. However, she has recently made public remarks in support of Diddy’s release.
  • Gina's Statement Highlights:
    • Timestamp [04:47]: Gina addresses the nature of her past relationship with Diddy, acknowledging imperfections but emphasizing his efforts to improve and his commitment to fatherhood.
    • She states, “I do not view Mr. Combs as a danger to me or the community,” challenging the prosecution’s portrayal of Diddy as a threat.

• Legal Analysis with Sean Kent:

  • Sean Kent, a criminal defense attorney, provides an in-depth analysis of the implications of Gina’s statement.
    • Timestamp [06:15]: Kent remarks, “It is baffling. If I'm the United States of America, I'm like, you got to be kidding me.”
    • He underscores the credibility damage to the prosecution, noting that a key witness has essentially recanted earlier support.
    • Kent speculates that Diddy's defense team will leverage Gina's statement during sentencing to undermine the prosecution’s case.

• Impact on the Case:

  • Anushka and Sean discuss the potential repercussions of Gina’s support for Diddy, highlighting how it undermines the prosecution’s narrative and could influence public perception.
  • Timestamp [07:18]: Kent explains, “This letter would have been more powerful had it come from Cassie or somebody else from you who didn't testify. Of course, you're not afraid. You didn't testify against him. He has no reason. It's a very wild letter.”

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2. Bonnie Blue’s Controversial Stunts and the Ethics of "Barely Legal" Content

The conversation shifts to Bonnie Blue, a well-known sex worker infamous for her provocative stunts designed to attract attention and subscribers.

• Bonnie Blue’s Stunts:

  • Bonnie Blue claims to have slept with 1,057 men in 24 hours and has orchestrated events like a petting zoo where she would engage in consensual encounters under extreme conditions.
  • These actions have sparked both backlash and support within the sex work community and the broader public.

• Interview with Adrina Winters:

  • Adrina Winters, a seasoned sex worker and content creator, shares her perspective on Bonnie Blue's methods.

    • Timestamp [10:01]: Adrina discusses the evolution of sex work, particularly the shift towards subscription platforms like OnlyFans, which has transformed the industry into a self-managed business model.
    • She emphasizes the increased autonomy creators now have over their content and interactions, contrasting it with the more controlled environment of traditional studios.

  • Barely Legal Content Debate:

    • A significant portion of Bonnie Blue’s controversy revolves around "Barely Legal" content, which involves depictions that suggest sexual activities with individuals who are just above the legal age of consent.
    • Adrina's Concerns:
      • Timestamp [14:52]: Adrina acknowledges the potential dangers, stating, “I do think it almost normalizes it, even if the people in the content themselves are consenting and are of a legal age.”
      • She worries that such content can desensitize audiences and create a cultural environment that overlooks the seriousness of age-related consent issues.

• Public and Regulatory Response:

  • Following a Channel 4 documentary exposing Bonnie Blue’s activities, some advertisers withdrew their support, prompting the UK’s Government Pornography Task Force to consider banning "Barely Legal" pornography.
  • Bonnie Blue’s Response:
    • Bonnie asserts the legality of her content, stating, “Barely legal is still legal. This moral panic is based on a turn of phrase that first came about from the press and I just ran with it. However, I have listened to the people's concerns and have decided to have a rebrand moving forwards.”

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3. Andrew and Tristan Tate: A Complex Web of Allegations Across Borders

The episode then transitions to the legal challenges faced by confined personalities Andrew and Tristan Tate, who are embroiled in multiple allegations spanning the UK, Romania, and the US.

• Overview of the Allegations:

  • UK Charges:

    • Andrew and Tristan Tate are accused of sexual violence, including allegations of assault and intimidation.
    • A trial is scheduled for June next year, where Tate has vehemently denied all accusations, labeling them as “a pack of lies and gross fabrications.”

  • Romanian Investigations:

    • The brothers face 21 criminal charges related to trafficking minors and sexual activities with minors.
    • Timestamp [18:01]: Andrew Tate asserts, “We live in a democratic society where it's innocent until proven guilty. And I think my brother and I are largely misunderstood.”

  • US Criminal Investigations:

    • They are also under scrutiny in Florida, adding another layer of legal pressure.

• Civil Lawsuits:

  • Brianna Stern’s Case:
    • Represented by Tony Busby, a civil attorney, Brianna Stern has filed a lawsuit against Andrew Tate for sexual assault, battery, and gender violence.
    • The lawsuit is characterized as a “cash grab” by Tate’s attorney, Joseph McBride, who disparages Busby as a “low life bottom feeder.”

• Legal Insights with Sean Kent:

  • Sean Kent provides clarity on the distinction between criminal and civil cases.

    • Timestamp [20:22]: “Criminal is a higher burden beyond a reasonable doubt. Civil lawsuits, of course, there's a lower burden.”
    • He explains that criminal cases can result in jail time, while civil cases typically involve monetary penalties.

  • Challenges for the Tate Brothers:

    • Kent highlights the difficulties in defending the Tates, especially given their outspoken promotion of toxic masculinity and misogynistic views.
    • Timestamp [21:13]: “They have built their brand on toxic masculinity and misogyny... it's going to be really hard to create a defense when any prosecutor in any country has mountains of your own words saying the stuff that you are accused of is okay.”

  • Deposition Challenges:

    • In civil cases, depositions can be intrusive, requiring defendants to answer detailed questions. However, with ongoing criminal investigations, the likelihood of depositions proceeding is slim.
    • Timestamp [23:24]: Kent elaborates, “They could ask him all these questions... I believe these depositions are never going to take place.”

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4. Conclusion and Ongoing Developments

Anushka concludes the episode by summarizing the tangled legal situations surrounding these high-profile figures. Emphasizing the complexity and evolving nature of these cases, she assures listeners that Fame Under Fire will continue to monitor and report on these stories as they develop.

• Final Remarks:
  • The episode underscores the impact of public statements and media portrayal on legal proceedings.
  • It highlights the intricate interplay between personal revelations, legal strategies, and media narratives in shaping public perception and judicial outcomes.

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Key Takeaways

• Victim Three’s Support for Diddy:

  • Gina’s recent statement significantly undermines the prosecution’s case, potentially influencing sentencing and public opinion.

• Bonnie Blue’s Controversial Tactics:

  • Bonnie Blue utilizes extreme stunts to gain attention, sparking debates on the ethics of "Barely Legal" content and its societal implications.

• Andrew and Tristan Tate’s Legal Maelstrom:

  • The Tate brothers face a barrage of allegations across multiple jurisdictions, with their public personas complicating their legal defenses.

• Legal Nuances Explored by Sean Kent:

  • The distinction between criminal and civil cases is crucial, with ongoing investigations casting long shadows over potential civil suit outcomes.

Notable Quotes:

• Gina on Diddy’s Character: “I do not view Mr. Combs as a danger to me or the community.” [04:47]
• Sean Kent on Victim Three’s Impact: “It hurts their credibility so much...” [06:15]
• Andrew Tate on Innocence: “We live in a democratic society where it's innocent until proven guilty.” [18:34]
• Adrina Winters on Barely Legal Content: “I do think it almost normalizes it...” [14:52]
• Sean Kent on the Tate Brothers’ Defense Challenges: “It's going to be really hard to create a defense...” [21:13]

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Stay Informed: Subscribe to Fame Under Fire on BBC Sounds and activate push notifications to stay updated on the latest episodes and developments in these high-stakes cases.

Transcript

[Ian Sterling]

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the uk.

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[Anushka Mutanda Doughty]

BBC Sounds Music Radio Podcasts. Hello and welcome back to Fame Under Fire from BBC Sounds with me, Anushka Mutanda Doughty. When celebrities, sports stars, politicians, influencers and royalty find themselves in the firing line, whether it's a lawsuit or or a scandal, we're here to pre bunk, debunk, fact check, myth bust, interrogate and of course answer your questions. Send them to me on social media or you can WhatsApp us at 03306-78114. That's 03306-78114. Don't forget to subscribe and turn on your push notifications so you never miss a thing. Coming up. Remember victim three, who was a no show at the Sean Diddy Combs trial?

[Sean Kent]

She ain't coming.

[Anushka Mutanda Doughty]

She is not coming. They're still going to talk about victim three. They're going to talk about alleged crimes pertaining to victim three, but she is not coming. Well, she has finally spoken out also today. First she slept with 1,057 men in 24 hours. Then she threatened to tie herself up in a cage and let anyone do what they wanted to her. I'll be talking to sex worker Adrina Winters about why Bonnie Blue does what she does.

[Adrina Winters]

I personally don't condone the age play stuff, but I completely understand how being controversial, doing these stunts, you know, is going to get traffic, it's going to get people talk.

[Anushka Mutanda Doughty]

And you asked for an explainer on the allegations being faced by this man and his brother.

[Andrew Tate]

Life is war. It's a war for the female you want. It's a war for the car you want. It's a war for the money you want. It's a war for the status. If you're a man who doesn't view life as war, you're going to lose.

[Anushka Mutanda Doughty]

So we will bring you all the details about Andrew and Tristan Tate later on. Right now I'm joined by our resident criminal defense attorney, Sean Kent from South Carolina. Hi, Sean.

[Sean Kent]

Hey, Nushka. How Are you doing?

[Anushka Mutanda Doughty]

I'm doing good. How are you?

[Sean Kent]

Good. Good.

[Anushka Mutanda Doughty]

Okay, so first of all, we're back in familiar territory talking about Diddy. He has been denied. What is this now, the fourth bail request that he's put in. So for anybody who wasn't following the last podcast, he said, I'm going to stay in the Metropolitan Detention center until October, which is when he's going to be sentenced. He's been convicted of transportation for prostitution on two counts and acquitted of the racketeering and the sex trafficking charges. And he said, I'm going to stay in there until October. Then he asked to leave. Sha, what were some of the reasons that his defense asked for him to. To get out early?

[Sean Kent]

The reason that they were trying to get him out early is they were saying that the charge that he was found convicted of, which is the prostitution under the man act, their theory was he is in a unique position because generally that man act involves coercion, fighting, or more importantly, making a profit. And as best that, Sean Diddy Combs is at a voyeur, if you will, he is not an active participant. He is somebody who is just watching. So what they were basically saying is he is not who this charge was created for. And so this is an extraordinary situation which would demand he be released from incarceration, which was a stretch. And remember, he is no longer innocent until proven guilty, as it demands of the United States. He is now guilty. And once you have been convicted of a felony in the federal system, the presumption is that you can keep your booty in jail. And so what he has to do is overreach that presumption and say that this is an extraordinary circumstance which demands that I be released. And the judge says, look, your own legal defense says that you are a dangerous person who beats up people. And two, you haven't come close to getting over the burden to say that this is an extraordinary situation. Anushka, these extraordinary situations are death in the family, usually, and you need to go to the funeral. Or candidly, if you are cooperating against a co defendant and they need you out. Usually this happens in drug situations, and then you can get your time reduced. So the judge says, none of these situations have happened. You're just a guy who got convicted who wants to get out.

[Anushka Mutanda Doughty]

So Judge Subramaniam has denied him bail for the fourth time. Now, I feel like we've had this conversation before, many times, but one thing we've never been able to say is that we've actually heard from victim three and you might be thinking, who on earth is that? We did hear about her throughout the trial. Her name is Gina. She's a former romantic partner of Diddy's. Remember those indictments, those superseding indictments? For anyone who doesn't know what that is, it's essentially the lawsuit that the federal government brought against Diddy in the first place. And said, there's victim one, there's victim two, then there was a victim three, a four, and a five. And then at the trial, victim three just went missing. They didn't turn up, but the prosecution said they were gonna continue to prosecute crimes relating to them, and then they never did. Sean, Victim three has now spoken out in support of Diddy being released. She said our relationship, like many, was not always perfect. We experienced ups and downs and mistakes were made. But he was willing to acknowledge his mistakes and make better decisions in the future. Over the years that followed, he made visible efforts to become a better person and to address the harm he had caused. By the time our relationship ended, he embodied an energy of love, patience, and gentleness that was markedly different from his past behavior. To my knowledge, he had not been violent for many years, and he has been committed to being a father first. I'm writing because I do not view Mr. Combs as a danger to me or the community. Before we get into what's actually been written there, is this not just so embarrassing for the prosecution?

[Sean Kent]

These are the reason that everybody is enamored with this case. I've never seen anything quite like it. Like when this case began, you were a victim who was going to testify to United States of America, backed your theory and your story to the point that they went to a grand jury and indicted you based upon information you gave. And now you are giving the middle finger, if you will, to the United States. And one of your own witnesses is saying, yeah, none of this stuff is really good. You need to let them out. It is baffling. If I'm the United States of America, I'm like, you got to be kidding me. It hurts their credibility so much, even given the fact that they didn't do anything to her. She literally just told the United States, one person. Think about that. One person told the United States, no, I'm not going to help you out. We don't care how much power, how much influence, how much money. I'm not going to help you out. And they did nothing to her. They didn't subpoena her. They didn't make her testify. They didn't make her show up.

[Anushka Mutanda Doughty]

Could this come up at sentencing, like from Diddy's defense team, and say, well, look, victim three has spoken out in support of him.

[Sean Kent]

Oh, I think they'll absolutely do that. I think if I was a theorem, I'd bring it up and say, this shows you how far reaching the United States went to try to get this individual, that they tried to influence people who wanted nothing to do. And one witness came forward and said, I'm not going to help the United States. The jury agreed with them. This witness agreed with him. This is painful for the prosecution, if you ask me. Don't forget, she also says, I'm not afraid of Diddy. He is not a danger to me. Well, you're not a victim anymore because you didn't go forward to the trial. It's not a question if you're afraid. It's the general public. This letter would have been more powerful had it come from Cassie or somebody else from you who didn't testify. Of course you're not afraid. You didn't testify against him. He has no reason. It's a very wild letter.

[Anushka Mutanda Doughty]

Well, look, you got to keep an eye on this Diddy docket because it's never done. It really isn't.

[Sean Kent]

It is the gift that keeps on giving.

[Anushka Mutanda Doughty]

Sean, thank you so much for your assessment of that. We'll be back with you in a minute, but we're going to talk about Bonnie Blue now, so just hold tight.

[Sean Kent]

No problem.

[Anushka Mutanda Doughty]

Bonnie Blue. It seems you can't go a month without hearing about Bonnie Blue. But if you don't know her, she's a sex worker who has made her name doing stunts. She's the one who claims she slept with 1057 men in just 24 hours. Now, a Channel 4 documentary was the subject, resulted in some advertisers pulling out. Bonnie Blue has also become known for making what has been termed barely legal content, sleeping with people who've just turned 18. After the documentary aired, the lead for the UK's Government Pornography Task Force said she'll try to introduce a ban on this so called Barely legal pornography amid concerns this content could normalize child abuse. And we're going to get to all of that in a moment. We contacted Bonnie Blue as well for a statement and she sent us this quote. Firstly, I'd like to point out that I, for one, have never done illegal. Barely legal is still legal. This moral panic is based on a turn of phrase that first came about from the press and I just ran with it. However, I have listened to the people's concerns and have decided to have a rebrand. Moving forwards. Joining me now is Adrina Winters. Adrina is a sex worker and content creator who's worked in the industry for 15 years. Hi, Adrina.

[Adrina Winters]

Hello.

[Anushka Mutanda Doughty]

Thank you so much for joining me today. I wanted to talk to you because I hear about these stunts, the barely legal, the 1,057 men in 24 hours. And then we had this petting zoo where Bonnie said she was gonna tie herself up in a cage and men could come in and do whatever they wanted to her in that time. And she was actually kicked off OnlyFans for suggesting she was gonna do this. But this is a reaction to something. The landscape has changed in the way that people consume pornography. In your experience, what's been the big.

[Adrina Winters]

Shift since the big shift? I guess around Covid, when sex workers got more control. With OnlyFans, we also had to take on all the other elements of porn as well. So, yeah, the marketing, the strategies, the editing. Yeah, everything.

[Anushka Mutanda Doughty]

So you're talking about this shift to basically subscription platforms. Tell me how that changed your day to day.

[Adrina Winters]

So before, when I worked for the studios, I'd maybe have to do a little bit of networking, make sure that people knew who I was, maybe attend some events or whatever. But aside from that, it would literally just show up on set and that was it. Whereas now. Now my to do list for this week, I have it here, actually. So I have to submit my VAT invoice list. I have a PR call after this. I have to plan next week's scenes. I have to plan what reels I'm going to film this week. I have to plan what YouTube content I'm filming this week. I need to figure out who I'm collaborating with. X Biz and I need to pay my stuff. So, yeah, and it's quite a change in workload.

[Anushka Mutanda Doughty]

So this is like running a small business.

[Adrina Winters]

Yes, very much so.

[Anushka Mutanda Doughty]

And you talk about paying your staff. Who. Your staff.

[Adrina Winters]

It's very, very time consuming to upload content. So I hire people to do my uploads for me so that I can focus on the stuff that needs me specifically, like recording content or taking calls like this or replying to fans or making custom videos or that kind of stuff.

[Anushka Mutanda Doughty]

Because part of what you do is also speaking to people, right? That's part of the allure of the service, is that you can talk to your favorite creator. How much of your time does that take up?

[Adrina Winters]

A lot. A lot. They kind of expect you, you know, they're. They're online. They want you online, they want your responses immediately. So, yeah, it's very time consuming. Before, if I went and shot for a studio, it would be their responsibility to make sure that traffic then found that scene. Whereas now I have to make sure that I've built up a fan base that will go and find my videos myself. So that means building up a following on social media.

[Anushka Mutanda Doughty]

So with what Bonnie Blue's doing, then, what's the reaction been to these stunts.

[Adrina Winters]

That she does within, like, the sex worker community?

[Anushka Mutanda Doughty]

Yeah, within the community.

[Adrina Winters]

I think it's very polarized. There are a lot of people that hate what she's doing, and there are a lot of people, I think, that respect her. Me, personally, if you can make the kind of money she's making, then I think go for it. Personally, I don't think it's a bad thing that there's more conversation about sex work in the media. And I think any kind of conversation's good. And personally, I'm okay with it, but I know a lot of people aren't.

[Anushka Mutanda Doughty]

But when they ask Bonnie, which everybody does, why do you do this? She says she enjoys it. She likes the challenge. This is part of her job. But from what you've just described there, there seems to be a logical, perhaps business reason for pulling these massive stunts in terms of garnering like a community that will automatically come back to the subscription platform.

[Adrina Winters]

Yeah, definitely. Yeah, the stunts are definitely. You know, she has a publicist. You don't have a publicist if you're just out doing it.

[Sean Kent]

Fun.

[Anushka Mutanda Doughty]

But why the need to market in this extreme way? Why not use other, more traditional forms of marketing?

[Adrina Winters]

Because it works. I mean, if what she claims to earn is correct, then, you know, it very clearly works for her.

[Anushka Mutanda Doughty]

And you spoke about this being a positive thing. There being more conversation around sex work and sex workers. Obviously, there is a large group of people who say, well, this industry, whichever way you look at it, is exploitative for the creators and the consumers. How do you respond to that?

[Adrina Winters]

I would disagree personally, especially since the shift to OnlyFans. Certainly before, when I worked for studios and I didn't know who I was working with, I perhaps didn't even have that much say on what was going to happen in the scene. Or, you know, people would try and push me to do things they didn't want to do. Whereas now I have way more autonomy. I pick who I collaborate with, I pick what kinds of content I want to shoot. And there's. Within the creators ourselves, there's a lot more conversation about what we are and aren't okay with. I don't feel like anyone's being exploited personally. Certainly not in my circles anyway. There are obviously levels to sex work, but I don't think OnlyFans inherently is exploitative.

[Anushka Mutanda Doughty]

One of the things that Bonnie's become known for, we touched on that a little bit, is this Barely Legal content. Some people call it age play. And the argument is more broadly that these stunts, they don't hurt anybody because she's consenting and she has full autonomy over what she's doing. But what we're hearing now, especially from this UK Pornography task force, is this barely legal content could be a gateway to normalizing child abuse. Could be a gateway for people accessing other things. They've seen this and think, oh, it's okay. This kind of stuff is becoming more part of the culture. What do you think and feel about that?

[Adrina Winters]

Yeah, personally, I think it is an issue. I do think it almost normalizes it, even if the people in the content themselves are consenting and are of a legal age. But, you know, when there's age play or sort of that kind of step sister, brother, mom kind of dynamic, I do think it normalizes stuff and potentially opens up room for abuse. Like, if a teenager that was being abused by someone that was taking advantage of their position of power or age, they might think, well, what they're doing. Okay, because I see it every day.

[Anushka Mutanda Doughty]

We talk about Bonnie Blue, and yes, she's in the papers every single day, but she didn't come up with this. Barely Legal wasn't invented by Bonnie Blue. It's been around for as long as I could remember.

[Adrina Winters]

Yeah, I think this is one of the things that frustrates me the most, is that she's getting called out for things that I feel like I'm going to say it, that men have been actually exploiting for a very long time, making hugely viral content from signing teenage boys to their huge corporate brand. So, yeah, she's certainly not doing anything new or novel here.

[Anushka Mutanda Doughty]

But overall, you don't really mind what she's doing. You think it's a good tactic to getting subscribers.

[Adrina Winters]

I personally don't condone the age play stuff, but I completely understand how being controversial, doing these stunts is going to get traffic, is going to get people talking. You know, she really leans into that kind of hate and that rage. I don't know how she does it. She has a very, very thick skin to be able to lean into that. And, like, she's deliberately controversial. She does it because she knows it gets a react and she knows it's going to sell her videos. So I don't have a problem with her doing that. You know, just. Yeah, the age stuff doesn't sit well with me personally.

[Anushka Mutanda Doughty]

Gina, thank you so much for talking to me about this today. I really appreciate it. Thank you for having me on. So what did Channel 4 have to say? Well, Channel 4's Chief Content Officer defended the documentary, arguing it is clearly a legitimate subject as she is a huge phenomenon who has transformed the porn industry. He claimed that Blue was sufficiently challenged about her actions in the program. He also claimed that the issue of the young women looking underage was addressed in the film. Now I'm back with criminal defense attorney Sean Kent. I asked you what stories you wanted us to follow and a lot of you came back saying Andrew and Tristan Tate. And to be fair, it's not straightforward as they are facing allegations that span across three different countries, the uk, Romania and the us. They deny them all. If you don't know the Tates, Andrew is a self proclaimed misogynist. He got his start on UK reality tv, then became an influencer, perhaps the influencer in the world of male podcasters with controversial views. Tristan, he's Andrew's brother and he's on some of those podcasts with him. So here's a rundown of the allegations they are facing in the uk. Four women are suing Andrew Tate over allegations of sexual violence, including that he grabbed one of the women by the throat on several occasions in 2015, pointed a gun in her face and assaulted her with a belt. Tate has previously denied the claims in a written defense submitted to the High Court, calling them a pack of lies and gross fabrications. A trial is set for June next year. Then there's this.

[Ian Sterling]

Andrew and Tristan Tate's lawyers say the brothers will return to the UK to face 21 criminal charges once a separate case against them in Romania is finished. Accusations by UK authorities include rape. Last year, Andrew and Tristan Tate said they're very innocent and deny allegations in Romania too, including one of rape against Andrew in Romania.

[Anushka Mutanda Doughty]

Andrew and Tristan are being investigated for trafficking minors and sexual activity with a minor. In February, the Tate brothers were allowed to leave Romania. Here's Andrew speaking as they arrived in Florida.

[Sean Kent]

Listen, listen, listen, listen.

[Andrew Tate]

We live in a democratic society where it's innocent until proven guilty. And I think my brother and I are largely misunderstood. There's a lot of opinions about us, a lot of things that go around about us on the Internet. We've yet to be convicted of any.

[Sean Kent]

Crime in our lives, ever.

[Andrew Tate]

We have no criminal record anywhere on the planet, ever.

[Anushka Mutanda Doughty]

And Sean can talk us through what else is going on in the US Now. They're under criminal investigation in Florida. Andrew Tate has said that the US authorities are trying to find crimes on an innocent man. Sean, just quickly on that. Why would a state announce that they're investigating somebody? Why not keep it to yourself until.

[Sean Kent]

You have something that is absolutely baffling to me, and that's probably one of the situations that you do that in an effort to have other individuals possibly come out if sometimes. You know, remember back in the day, we talked about the Busby lawsuits and how he put that 1-800-number up behind him, and he said, if you have any information, come forward. Well, this is criminal investigation doing that without putting a 1, 800 number. We are investigating this individual without saying if you have information, come forward. That's one of the reasons why they usually do that stuff. And two, they want to make sure this person doesn't come to their state. Because if you remember, if you saw the governor basically said, we don't want you here. And so while you are here, we want you to know you're under a microscope. Don't try to commit crimes here. Don't do anything wrong, because so many different sovereigns are looking for you.

[Anushka Mutanda Doughty]

I'm glad you brought up Tony Busby there, but for those who don't know who he is, he was that Texan lawyer. He told the BBC that he had 150 cases that he was going to bring against Diddy, and he has been filing more civil cases against Diddy since the criminal trial ended. He also has a lawsuit. He's representing the ex girlfriend of Andrew Tate. Her name is Brianna Stern, and she's accused him of sexual assault, battery, and gender violence. The next hearing is set for August. That's a civil lawsuit. Sean, just remind us the difference between criminal and civil.

[Sean Kent]

Absolutely. Completely different. Criminal is a higher burden beyond a reasonable doubt. Civil lawsuits, of course there's a lower burden. So, basically, is it more likely than not that Andrew Tate did this stuff that they're accusing him of? If he is found liable or responsible for these civil allegations, he has to pay money. If he is found guilty for criminal action, he goes to jail. Money versus jail.

[Anushka Mutanda Doughty]

Now, in relation to that lawsuit that's been filed by Tony Buzby on behalf of Brianna Stern. In a statement to the BBC, Andrew Tate's attorney, Joseph McBride, dismissed the allegations and called the lawsuit a blatant cash grab. He also attacked Tony Busby Calling him a low life bottom feeder. That civil lawsuit, surely that sits at the bottom of everything in terms of priority, because he's got Romania, then the uk, Then if Florida find anything, I mean, she could be waiting years, right?

[Sean Kent]

His civil lawsuit is so low on the radar of things that people care about, I guarantee you they don't give a darn about that case. And Andrew Tate and his brother. What makes these criminal cases fascinating to me is they have built their brand on toxic masculinity and misogyny. They have built their brand on we do what we want and women are subservient to us. And now they're being charged on what they built their brand for. It's going to be really hard to create a defense when any prosecutor in any country has mountains of your own words saying the stuff that you are accused of is okay, it's fascinating to.

[Anushka Mutanda Doughty]

Me, but in the chain of events, they're being investigated in Romania for the trafficking of minors and potential sexual activity with a minor. There are 21 charges to be brought against the brothers Andrew and Tristan. In the uk they have not been officially charged yet because we have to get through what's going on in Romania first and then potentially something in Florida and then this civil lawsuit. So at the moment, what they're actually officially charged with is nothing. But we're waiting for a criminal investigation in Romania to either officially charge them with an indictment or not. For Brianna Stern, who claims she's a victim, she's a claimant in this civil lawsuit against Andrew Tate. What do you do if you're facing a five or six year or seven year wait? Is there any way that you can be supported through that or can you add extra money? What is there for that?

[Sean Kent]

There's nothing. You just wait. Because remember, with our civil lawsuits, one of the other big issues with the civil lawsuits is the person who is bringing the lawsuit against you has a right to take your deposition. Remember, we've talked about depositions so many times. All the cases we've talked about sworn statements. Whether it's Kanye West, Blake Lively, that case with the Justin Baldon. We talked about these depositions. That's what makes civil cases so powerful. When you are under the eye of a criminal investigation, you have the right to remain silent. Which means in these civil context, these two brothers never have to sit for a deposition because they don't got to say anything. And until they're free from the reach of these criminal allegations, they're never going to have to sit for a deposition. Until then, the Lawsuit is not going forward. So you, you say five, six or seven. It could take longer.

[Anushka Mutanda Doughty]

But for a deposition, is that kind of like having somebody on the stand in a criminal case where you could just ask them direct questions?

[Sean Kent]

Absolutely. But it's way more intrusive and they're not understand, they'll be sitting in someplace like my office. Andrew Tate would be sitting down, the other lawyer sitting across from him. It's recorded the same way you are in the studio. It's all recorded. And, and they're asking him questions and they would ask him questions about things he said on his podcast, things that he has said on X, things that he has said formally, things that he is alleged to do with other women. They could ask him all these questions. Remember, in the criminal arena you don't get to ask all that stuff. And so that's why these depositions, I believe are never going to take place. Because he's got so many investigations currently going on. So that civil lawsuit ain't going anywhere anytime soon.

[Anushka Mutanda Doughty]

We asked the Tate brothers for a statement about all these allegations, but they haven't responded yet. A spokesperson for Andrew Tate previously said he denies ever threatening anyone with a firearm, engaging in non consensual acts, or subjecting any individual to physical or psychological harm. It is deeply troubling that such graphic and one sided accounts are being publicized before any judicial assessment has taken place. And of course, on this podcast we'll keep you updated with what is going on with all three of those areas where they could possibly face charges. Sean, thank you so much for joining me today.

[Sean Kent]

Thank you for having me. I appreciate you, Anishka.

[Anushka Mutanda Doughty]

And just before we go, you'll remember we spoke about actor Sydney, Sydney Sweeney last episode and that Jean's advert, well, since then President Trump has come out in support of her. And we've also had a statement from American Eagle saying Sydney Sweeney has great jeans. That was the name of the campaign is and always was about the jeans. Her jeans, her story. We'll continue to celebrate how everyone wears their AE jeans with confidence their way. And that's it for Fame Under Fire from BBC Sounds with me and Ishkama Tandadawati. Keep sending in your questions or ideas for stories you'd like us to cover. You can get us on WhatsApp at 03306-78114.

[Adrina Winters]

Hey, I'm Laura Whitmore.

[Ian Sterling]

And I'm Ian Sterling.

[Anushka Mutanda Doughty]

Anyone who knows us knows we love talking all things true crime.

[Ian Sterling]

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[Anushka Mutanda Doughty]

Murder, fraud, catfishing, heists, blackmail, brainwashing, betrayal, and even a case solved by chewing gum.

[Ian Sterling]

It's less who done it and more they did.

[Sean Kent]

What?

[Ian Sterling]

Murder they Wrote with Flora, Whitmorny and Sterling.

[Anushka Mutanda Doughty]

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