Alfre Woodard — on aging with intention and trusting her own timing

Summary

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Episode Overview

Podcast: Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson
Episode: Alfre Woodard — on aging with intention and trusting her own timing
Date: December 16, 2025
Location: Salty Girl, West Hollywood, CA
Guest: Alfre Woodard (Emmy-winning actress, “12 Years a Slave,” “Crooklyn,” “True Blood,” “The Last Frontier”)

This episode is an intimate, laughter-filled dinner conversation between host Jesse Tyler Ferguson and legendary actress Alfre Woodard. The two discuss aging, intentionality, embracing change, lessons from long marriages, their careers, and stories from Alfre’s early days in Hollywood to her new Apple TV series, "The Last Frontier." Vulnerability, resilience, and the joy of crafting a meaningful life—as well as indulging in oysters and stories—anchor this engaging exchange.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Celebrating Milestones and Aging With Intention

• Sharing Celebrations:

  • The episode opens with lighthearted talk about upcoming anniversaries and birthday plans. Alfre shares that her 42nd wedding anniversary is tomorrow. Jesse’s 50th birthday is coming up.
    • "You got married October 21st?...My birthday's the 22nd." (05:12)
    • "You don't just celebrate one day...every month that year do something special for yourself...akin to hopping off something into something." —Alfre Woodard, quoting Sheila Johnson (07:29)
  • Alfre encourages Jesse to defy tradition and make his 50th year a true year of adventure, not just a single event.

• Challenging Yourself:

  • Alfre suggests not just comfort-zone celebrations but intentional, even outrageous, self-challenges—like singing at a club in “nut huggers.”
    • "Just pick your favorite club. You get up in a nut hugger, and you just—just sing." —Alfre (08:39)
    • "That's the test." (08:54)
  • She also floats the idea of spending a silent week in reflective solitude to rebalance.

• Perspective on Age:

  • Jesse and Alfre both discuss how their approach to celebration and fun has shifted with time—favoring brunch parties over late-night ragers, for example.

2. Parenthood, Family & Artistic Legacy

• Jesse’s son’s interpretation of theater and understudy roles (“Imaginarius”)—a funny parenting story about how kids perceive their parents’ jobs.
  • "I'll do the musical theater if I can be the Imaginarius and I don't have to go on." (20:56)
• Respect for both the excitement and vulnerability children experience aspiring to creative roles.

3. Growing Up and Finding Identity

• Outsider in Tulsa:

  • Alfre recalls growing up as “the plain girl child from a place that did not like girl children”— an outsider status that would later fuel her resilience and individuality.
    • "I was a plain girl child from a place that did not like girl children, and it really didn't like its own women." (21:32)
    • "When you're odd, you can either slink away or you can just, like, walk in the middle of the floor." (21:56)
  • Discussion of confidence: Alfre notes she always had a basic self-assurance, even when battling nerves.

• Breaking Through in Hollywood:

  • Despite her accolades, Alfre shares she never felt she had a single “breakthrough” moment—every step forward was a hard-won grind.
    • "What was the opportunity that made you feel like, okay, I've broken through?...Never. Never really." (25:29)

• Handling Criticism:

  • A revealing story about being voted queen in middle school (by accident), facing ridicule, and how it prepped her for Hollywood:
    • "I even heard my friends saying things like, oh, damn, this is the ugliest queen." (23:23)
    • "You think I gave a fuck what Hollywood said about what I looked like?" —Alfre (24:00)

4. The Work: Artistry, Intuition, and Craft

• Love of the Craft:

  • Alfre describes acting as a compulsion: “We don’t turn into artists. We are already.”
    • "We don't turn into artists. We are already. We're the ones that are hotwired to surrender to it." (36:23)
    • "You just felt that same thing that people were making allowances for...there's freedom right there. And you get your first hit of oxygen, and you want to live in that." (37:16)

• For Colored Girls:

  • Alfre recounts her path with the legendary play—from the LA production to the Australian tour and then the PBS film.
  • Impact of the play and the enduring demand for stories about Black women.

• On Perseverance:

  • Both marvel at the working character actors who fill out the industry, showing up passionately yet often unheralded.
    • "There's not a role...that hasn't come into that moment with all their backstory and everything tight, so that it's not a character. It's a human being." (39:41)

5. The Last Frontier & Filming in Alaska

• Behind the Scenes:

  • The conversation turns to Alfre’s new Apple TV series, “The Last Frontier.”
    • Jesse and Joanna are effusive about the show’s intensity (“I don't know if I've ever seen anything more intense in my life.” (30:59)), high production values, and complex characters.
    • Alfre explains the show’s dynamics: harsh natural environments, small-town communities, and high-stakes international espionage.
      • “The harsh land that you could just go out and easily die in a night just because it's cold or your truck stopped or any number of things.” (32:03)
  • Jesse and Alfre trade stories of visiting and filming in Alaska, marveling at its beauty and brutality.

• Stunt Work & Community:

  • Reflections on the show's ensemble approach and the respect she has for all levels of cast and crew, especially the “heroic” stunt team.

6. On Mentorship, Maya Angelou, and Legacy

• Working with Maya Angelou:
  • Alfre relates the seriousness and reverence with which Dr. Angelou (and she insists on “Dr. Angelou”) ran her movie set, blending poetic creativity with strong boundaries.
    • “My name is Dr. Angelou. It is not Maya to you.” (41:10)
    • "You don’t walk the roads that she’s walked and not depend on your own sense of deserving to be wherever you are at any moment." —Alfre (41:25)
  • Alfre shares her awe at being entrusted with Maya’s vision—while also finding playfulness and mentorship in their relationship.

7. On Marriage, Life Satisfaction & Looking Ahead

• The episode closes with gratitude and mutual support—Alfre praises Jesse’s perspective on joy, family, and self-love.
  • "You're the best. You're so deserving of a good life. Of the good life you're having with him and the children." —Alfre (45:06)
  • "Don't worry about your age. Don't ever think about it. It's you living in the middle of eternity." —Alfre (45:44)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Quote | Speaker | |-----------|-------|---------| | 07:29 | "You don't just celebrate one day...every month that year do something special for yourself..." | Alfre Woodard (quoting Sheila Johnson) | | 08:39 | "Just pick your favorite club. You get up in a nut hugger, and you just—just sing. You sing. Are you an artist or not?" | Alfre Woodard | | 21:32 | "I was a plain girl child from a place that did not like girl children, and it really didn't like its own women." | Alfre Woodard | | 23:23 | "I even heard my friends saying things, like, oh, damn, this is the ugliest queen." | Alfre Woodard | | 24:00 | "You think I gave a fuck what Hollywood said about what I looked like?" | Alfre Woodard | | 25:29 | "Never. Never really, you know what, who was hiring me back then?...People in charge...but they couldn't trust them either." | Alfre Woodard | | 36:23 | "We don't turn into artists. We are already. We're the ones that are hotwired to surrender to it." | Alfre Woodard | | 37:16 | "...There's freedom right there. And you get your first hit of oxygen, and you want to live in that." | Alfre Woodard | | 39:41 | "There's not a role...that hasn't come into that moment with all their backstory and everything tight, so that it's not a character. It's a human being." | Alfre Woodard | | 41:10 | "My name is Dr. Angelou. It is not Maya to you." | Alfre Woodard (quoting Maya Angelou) | | 45:06 | "You're the best. You're so deserving of a good life. Of the good life you're having with him and the children." | Alfre Woodard | | 45:44 | "Don't worry about your age. Don't ever think about it. It's you living in the middle of eternity." | Alfre Woodard |

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Important Timestamps

• 05:01 to 10:18 – Reflections on marriage, birthdays, and challenging norms in aging
• 19:05 to 21:10 – Parenting, Jesse’s son’s “Imaginarius” and generational storytelling
• 21:32 to 25:17 – Alfre’s childhood, confidence, and resistance to outside judgment
• 26:08 to 28:00 – For Colored Girls: from LA to Australia to PBS
• 30:39 to 34:33 – Deep dive into “The Last Frontier,” filming in Alaska
• 41:10 to 43:08 – Working with Maya Angelou and mentorship
• 45:06 to episode end – Gratitude, aging with intention, closing reflections

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Tone & Style

The episode is candid, witty, and deeply heartfelt—balancing playful banter (“nut huggers” and club dares) with vulnerable self-revelation and thoughtful wisdom about longevity, artistry, and aging. Both Jesse Tyler Ferguson and Alfre Woodard exude warmth, mutual respect, and deep curiosity for life’s next adventure.

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Transcript

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You know, one of the things about hosting a show that's literally centered around meals is that you start thinking a lot about what foods do to your body. As for me, it's not just about enjoying a dinner with a friend. It's about feeling good after the meal, too. That's why I've been really curious about Psygnos. It's an AI powered app that pairs with a bio sensor to help you actually see in real time how your body responds to what you're eating. Your stress, your sleep. And even when you take a walk after dinner, instead of guessing, you suddenly get this clear picture of what's happening inside your body.

[Joanna Clay]

Here's what I like.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Psygnos can tell you which foods actually cause blood sugar spikes. It can give you little nudges in the moment, like, hey, maybe take a quick walk. And it even helps you notice the difference between when you're really hungry and when you're just bored or stressed. Honestly, I wish I had had this when I was figuring out how to eat more intuitively. Cygnos really does take the guesswork out of managing your weight and building healthier. Ha. And right now, they've got an exclusive offer just for our listeners. Go to psignos.com that's S I G N O S dot com and use code DOM to get $10 off select plans. That's psygnos.com code DOM for $10 off select plans. Today, the holidays are coming up, and.

[Joanna Clay]

Like a lot of people, our family's.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Already planning where we're spending Thanksgiving. It's at our house and who's bringing what pie and what kind of pie and making sure it's the pie that everyone wants.

[Alfre Woodard]

It's.

[Joanna Clay]

It's the whole thing.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Usually with pie, I end up just buying it. Other people do it so much better than I do. And I, I.

[Joanna Clay]

It just takes one thing off my plate.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Although I did just buy a great.

[Joanna Clay]

Cookbook called All About Pie. So maybe I should be brave and.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Make my own pie this year. A lot of people, though, don't have Thanksgiving at home. They travel.

[Joanna Clay]

They travel to loved ones.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And if you're traveling this season, it might be the perfect time to think about hosting your home on Airbnb while you're away. The best part?

[Joanna Clay]

You don't have to do it all by yourself.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

With Airbnb's co host network, you can team up with a local co host who can handle everything from guest communication, check ins, even sprucing things up before the next day. So while you're away making memories with family. Your home is in good hands, making a few of its own. If you've been curious about hosting but don't know where to start, find a co [e-mail] host. Hi, it's Jessie today on the show. You know her from her scene stealing.

[Joanna Clay]

Performances in films like Crooklyn and 12.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Years a Slave and TV shows like.

[Joanna Clay]

True Blood and the Practice.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

She's now starring in the Apple TV.

[Joanna Clay]

Series the Last Frontier. It's Alfre Woodard.

[Alfre Woodard]

Just pick your favorite club, you get up in a nut hugger and you just, just sing. You sing. Are you an artist or not? Are you just a middle class, middle aged man? I don't know.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

This is Dinner's on Me and I'm your host, Jesse Tyler Ferguson.

[Joanna Clay]

If there was ever anyone who I would consider a legend, Alfre Woodard would definitely be one of those people. She is absolutely an icon. She's someone who I've been watching for years, someone who I've looked up to for so long. I've loved so many of her performances.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I just realized she was on the.

[Joanna Clay]

Pilot episode of LA Law.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That's crazy. I mean, she's been doing such incredible.

[Joanna Clay]

Work for so long. I was so excited to see her in the new Apple TV series the Last Frontier. She's absolutely incredible in it. The show itself is unbelievable and I am so excited to sit down and have a meal with her. I actually know that she's already waiting outside this restaurant. She got here about a half hour early and I said hello to her as I passed by her in her car.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I'm at Salty Girl on the Sunset Strip. And if you haven't been, Salty Girl.

[Joanna Clay]

Is this lively little seafood spot, bright blue banquettes, raw bar up front. It's the kind of place where you can linger over oysters and a glass.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Of bubbly and forget that you're right off one of the busiest streets in Los Angele, if not the world.

[Joanna Clay]

It's east coast seafood with a California attitude.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Think fish and chips, branzino or crispy fish sandwich that you could top off.

[Joanna Clay]

With caviar if you so wish.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

So over oysters or lobster roll or.

[Joanna Clay]

You know, whatever she's feeling, I want.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

To ask her about her absolutely incredible.

[Joanna Clay]

Career, her time in Hollywood, and also get some behind the scenes stories of this incredible new show she's a part of.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

All right, let's get to the conversation.

[Joanna Clay]

You've been married for like 40 years, right?

[Alfre Woodard]

42. Okay, tomorrow.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Tomorrow's your anniversary.

[Alfre Woodard]

Yeah. When Is you guys.

[Joanna Clay]

We're in July.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

July.

[Joanna Clay]

My birthday, my 50th birthday is on Wednesday.

[Alfre Woodard]

Really?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

So you got married October 21st?

[Alfre Woodard]

21St, yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

My birthday's the 22nd.

[Alfre Woodard]

Oh, my darling, you're just on the 21st.

[Joanna Clay]

Two things to celebrate this. Yeah, yeah. Last day of Libra.

[Alfre Woodard]

Wow.

[Joanna Clay]

Yeah, well, we're celebrating some things this week, aren't we?

[Alfre Woodard]

Cheers. Salud.

[Joanna Clay]

Congratulations.

[Alfre Woodard]

What you gonna do?

[Joanna Clay]

My husband's 10 years younger than me and we had a big 40, 50 birthday. We had a big 30, 40 party 10 years ago.

[Alfre Woodard]

Yeah.

[Joanna Clay]

And it was, you know, at night.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

We ended.

[Joanna Clay]

We got a venue. It was like a big blowout thing. I sit out until like, you know.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

1:30 in the morning.

[Joanna Clay]

We had a DJ, we had a band, we had food trucks. It was great. It was like. We had a great wedding.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

But, you know, there is a responsibility.

[Joanna Clay]

And everyone's there to.

[Alfre Woodard]

I don't.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I just.

[Joanna Clay]

I just didn't get like, let loose as much of my wedding as I would have liked to, even though I did have a really great time in my wedding. But this 30, 40 birthday, it felt like the wedding with the fun part also attached to it. Like, I really just got to like, let it go.

[Alfre Woodard]

And.

[Joanna Clay]

And then this year, you know, 10 years later, we're trying to figure out what to do for our 40 50th. And we ended up having a party between the hours of 12 and 5pm on a Saturday. We rented out Bette Davis's old house that she used to have parties at. It's basically like Bette Davis party guest house. And it's now it's a production studio as well. Like they have a podcast studio there. Anyway, it's a beautiful home. So we ended up doing that.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

But it was like, you know, between.

[Joanna Clay]

12 and 5pm I was in bed by 8 and I was thinking like.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

But that's what I want to do.

[Joanna Clay]

Like I have two young kids. Like, that's the party I wanted this year. So, I mean, it was lovely, but it was so much more tame than what had happened 10 years earlier.

[Alfre Woodard]

Well, it should be.

[Joanna Clay]

And it should be, I guess. But I feel like I'm going to turn back around and like, you know, like, you know, when it maybe my 60th, it's going to be back to a bit of a rager. I think I'll be ready for it again.

[Alfre Woodard]

But, you know, you can also give them in half years or just any year.

[Joanna Clay]

Yeah, yeah.

[Alfre Woodard]

You know.

[Joanna Clay]

No, for sure. I mean, I don't.

[Alfre Woodard]

It feels as the woman who has had one birthday party her entire life.

[Joanna Clay]

Well, for what year do you remember?

[Alfre Woodard]

It might have been my 46th or something. However, I'm going to tell you something about your 50th. Sheila Johnson told me this. You know who Sheila Johnson is?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I know the name.

[Alfre Woodard]

She was one of the co founders of BET with Bob Johnson, her then husband. She's just a prolific entrepreneur, but she said to me when she turned 50, she said, well, I had turned 50. And she said, you know what you have to do? She said, you don't just celebrate one day or even a week every, every month that year. No, you have to do something special for yourself, but something that you would never do. Not like just, you know, get a massage, get your hair cut or something, but something, you know, akin to hopping off something into something. You know, get in a kayak by yourself in the North Atlantic and start down Main, but have somebody follow you so that you're fine.

[Joanna Clay]

Okay, so that's January.

[Alfre Woodard]

Oh, you know what else you could do?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Tell me.

[Alfre Woodard]

Just pick your favorite club. You get up in a nut hugger and you just, just sing. You sing. Are you an artist or not? Are you just a middle class, middle aged man? I don't know. That's the test.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Alfre Woodard]

Challenge yourself, not hug her.

[Joanna Clay]

Oh my God. That would require me setting an alarm and like waking up in the middle of the night to get out of my house in my nut huggers. To like West Hollywood.

[Alfre Woodard]

You don't wear the nut hugger there. You put it, you have it on under your tongue.

[Joanna Clay]

Okay. Oh my God.

[Alfre Woodard]

On the other end. And you can do both of them because celebration happens in all flavors. You could also choose like a monastery or a reflective community somewhere and be quiet for a week and see what you come up with.

[Joanna Clay]

If I do this, if I do this thing that we're talking about once a month for the next year, my husband will leave me once.

[Alfre Woodard]

When you come back after having been quiet and come back.

[Joanna Clay]

That does sound like a dream.

[Alfre Woodard]

Hot and so, so much more of yourself. Okay.

[Joanna Clay]

Do you know what you want to eat?

[Alfre Woodard]

Yeah. What are the oysters?

[Megan (Server/Chef at Salty Girl)]

I have five to change out daily. So it's going to be on this one right in front of us.

[Alfre Woodard]

What?

[Megan (Server/Chef at Salty Girl)]

So you normally like a smaller, sweeter oyster or something a little larger briny?

[Alfre Woodard]

No, I like, I like small and shallow.

[Megan (Server/Chef at Salty Girl)]

I would go with the bijou pearl.

[Alfre Woodard]

Bijou pearl.

[Megan (Server/Chef at Salty Girl)]

Bijou pearl.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Alfre Woodard]

I'm gonna have to have a, like a bijou pearl? Yes. Okay. Are like this Size, but the moisture.

[Megan (Server/Chef at Salty Girl)]

Itself, that's not super deep. It's pretty shallow too.

[Alfre Woodard]

Okay, but. All right, so I want small and shallow.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That's good.

[Alfre Woodard]

So ask chef if. How many are you gonna eat?

[Joanna Clay]

I might have a. I'll have, like, three. How many do you want? Like a dozen?

[Alfre Woodard]

No, no, let's do. Let's do half a dozen.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Half a dozen.

[Alfre Woodard]

And then if we want more, I'd.

[Joanna Clay]

Like maybe two, three.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Maybe three.

[Joanna Clay]

We'll see. All right, so, yeah, I'm gonna have. I love your lobster rolls so much, but I think I'm gonna do the scallops.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Perfect.

[Megan (Server/Chef at Salty Girl)]

The lemon chili. Yeah.

[Joanna Clay]

And the grilled artichokes.

[Megan (Server/Chef at Salty Girl)]

How did that start?

[Alfre Woodard]

See, I'm just.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I mean, I definitely.

[Joanna Clay]

I think getting out of my comfort zone is something that I have started doing more in the past, like, five years of my life. And I think it's so important, and I've. I've. I mean, it's easy for me to. The place I find myself doing it the most is in my work, just because I know I can kind of control it. Like, I need to work anyways. So I try and find things that scare me and that, you know, make me uneasy and uncomfortable, especially, you know, having done something for 11 years that I was very comfortable in.

[Alfre Woodard]

How was the park, by the way?

[Joanna Clay]

Oh, my gosh. With all I wanted. It was so great. Lupita was a dream. She's so great in this. You know, they recorded it for great performances, so you can watch it in, like, a month.

[Alfre Woodard]

I can watch it now.

[Joanna Clay]

No. And it comes out in November.

[Alfre Woodard]

All right. Yeah, that'll be my birthday present.

[Joanna Clay]

Oh, my gosh, I wish you could have seen it. It was really special.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Alfrey tells me about feeling like an outsider growing up in Tulsa, Oklahoma. And we talk about starring in early productions of the groundbreaking and award winning play for Colored Girls. Okay, be right back. You know, it's that time of the year.

[Joanna Clay]

Yep.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

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[Joanna Clay]

So here's the deal.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

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[Megan (Server/Chef at Salty Girl)]

Suggested two oysters, but these are going to be our smallest. They are a little less shallow than these other ones.

[Alfre Woodard]

Yeah.

[Megan (Server/Chef at Salty Girl)]

But I got my shallowest, smallest oysters. The red is a hot Fresno chili sauce, and the other is a house.

[Alfre Woodard]

Megan, that's. That's really beautiful. Thanks, man.

[Joanna Clay]

Thank you so much.

[Alfre Woodard]

But you know what I was going to ask was, how old are your kids?

[Joanna Clay]

5 and 3.

[Alfre Woodard]

So when you're doing the play, did they come to see you in the park?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

My son.

[Joanna Clay]

My older son, Becca came to see me in the park.

[Alfre Woodard]

So what did he think of you on stage?

[Joanna Clay]

I mean, he was very excited. He's seen me on stage before, so I think he understands that that's my job. And I do this thing where I, like, stand on a platform in front of people and speak loudly and pretend I'm someone else. And that's funny for him. He thinks that's humorous. And so, you know. But the Delacorte Theater is this huge outdoor space with 2,000 seats, and it's a whole thing. And so I think that for him was also very exciting to be in the middle of Central park in the middle of night and, like, seeing a Shakespeare play.

[Alfre Woodard]

He.

[Joanna Clay]

It's so funny. Cause he started doing musical theater. He's in a musical theater extracurricular class at his school. And he said he wanted to do that. Cause I think he knows that I do theater. But then he started to realize, oh, I don't wanna stand. He basically got scared because he doesn't wanna stand in front of 2000 people and have to do this thing. I was like, oh, no, honey, you have to work up to that. Like, you're not playing the Delacorte at any time soon. Like, this is just fun with you and your classmates, you know? So he sort of, like, eased up a little bit. But the funny thing he did say, because I introduced him to my understudy, because I was like, this is the guy who does the part for me if, like, I can't go on if I'm sick. And it was this guy named Valentino who has red hair as well. And for some reason, he heard the word imaginarius is what he remembered as an understudy. So during his musical theater class, he's like, well, I'll do the musical theater if I can be the Imaginarius and I don't have to go on. I was like, what?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

What is your brain?

[Joanna Clay]

How does your brain make up this Word imaginarius. Which is kind of genius. It's like the person who might go on for you if you can't go on anyway.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Thank you.

[Joanna Clay]

Do you want some artichoke? Do you like artichoke?

[Alfre Woodard]

How is it so green? Green and such. Oh. Ooh, that's. Yeah, I would like artichoke. See, there's a good sign.

[Joanna Clay]

I knew something would show up.

[Alfre Woodard]

There's a good decision I made to have some of your dinner.

[Joanna Clay]

Thank you.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Thank you.

[Joanna Clay]

Perfect. You grew up in Tulsa, right?

[Alfre Woodard]

Yeah.

[Joanna Clay]

Yeah.

[Alfre Woodard]

I just, you know, I was a plain girl child from a place that did not like girl children, and it really didn't like its own women. And I could find. Feel that even at 8. Although I had a great life, I was very bold, I was popular, I was weird. But, you know, when you're odd, you can either slink away or you can just, like, walk in the middle of the floor. I'm going to tell you about putting on that nut hugger in a minute. So you can walk on the. On the floor and not leave. And they have to figure out something. And so I did.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I was brave. I mean, I, you know, I was a weird kid, too, but I was the opposite. Like, I was.

[Joanna Clay]

I. I was nervous to be myself in front of people, so that's really incredible.

[Alfre Woodard]

And you know what? My sister was tall with, like, thick, long, straight hair. My brother is athletic and all ripped and all. And people would do this. They'd say, grown ups. Oh, my, look at those braids. Look at her long legs. He's a handsome one. Look at, like, look at his muscles. And they're going. And then there's a little one just like that. I'm telling you. And my mother would say, they're so stupid.

[Joanna Clay]

Yeah, wow.

[Alfre Woodard]

But. And I'd say, ma, it doesn't count if you say it. You're my mom. You're supposed to say it. Cute. And then I got voted as queen of my middle school by accident.

[Joanna Clay]

Like a prom queen, but for middle school.

[Alfre Woodard]

Yeah. I even heard my friends saying things like, oh, damn, this is the ugliest queen.

[Joanna Clay]

Oh, no, come on.

[Alfre Woodard]

Doing that. And so I was like, oh, God, I didn't ask to be in it. And they were saying, he's like, ooh, her escort is prettier than she is. Anyway, my mom took me to Dallas, to Nieman's and brought me this beautiful gown for a woman, and. Which made me just think, yep, you better dress me up, because apparently I'm the ugliest queen they had you think I gave a fuck what Hollywood said.

[Joanna Clay]

About what I looked like?

[Alfre Woodard]

It's like, nope, I ain't going nowhere. It's kind of.

[Joanna Clay]

It's amazing that, you know, that could go two ways. You know, you could have. You could come to a city like LA and it could completely eat you alive. Or you could say, I've seen it all, like, show me your worst and you know, or I came here with a purpose. It's easier to do the other thing and like lie down and like. But I.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Did you always have that confidence in.

[Joanna Clay]

Yourself and your talent and like who you were? Did you always have that self assuredness?

[Alfre Woodard]

Yes. Did I have butterflies and like my throat closing up sometimes? Yes. But I realized early on my desire to do what I needed to do, what I felt was right was stronger and you know, tell me I can't do it and there's no harm feelings. I don't feel mad about it. Like, that doesn't drive me. Other people's disregard of me, it's just, that's something that they live with their own selves. I, like my father said in the beginning, so how am I get to tell this story?

[Joanna Clay]

Yeah. What was the opportunity that made, that made you feel like, okay, I've broken through, I've. I've. This is, this feels different. It feels like I'm being given opportunity.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Never, never.

[Alfre Woodard]

Never really, you know what, who was hiring me back then? And they were a different sort people like Altman, you know, Rob Altman.

[Joanna Clay]

Yeah.

[Alfre Woodard]

Who were outside of that kind of thought anyway. So people that. People in charge that those in over them who held the purse strings. But they couldn't trust them either. So it was.

[Joanna Clay]

Yeah, yeah. Can I ask about for Color Girls? Because that is a play that I became aware of in high school. A lot of people would use it in speech and debate tournaments and I became sort of fascinated with it. And then when I started working at the public theater in 1997, I would always see the poster up at the Public. And when you did it, it was a televised version, Correct?

[Alfre Woodard]

Right. I mean I did, I did the taper first.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Okay.

[Alfre Woodard]

I did the Mark Tapa production. That was the LA production here. And then I did an Australian tour.

[Joanna Clay]

Oh, wow.

[Alfre Woodard]

I came back from there. I did a company at the Huntington in la and that's when I got asked. PBS wanted to film it. There were probably about six companies by then that had been called together. So that's when I did it there. Okay. Yeah.

[Joanna Clay]

I mean I did find your monologue about Your I want my stuff back on YouTube. And it is because I saw the recent revival that they just did at the public and then on Broadway. It was such a. I mean, it was really lovely to see something that is so theatrical and sort of like what we were just talking about, but presented in front of the camera.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Now for a quick break, but don't go away. After the break, Alfred tells me about shooting in Alaska for the Apple TV series the Last Frontier. And she shares her fondest memories of the late Maya Angelou, who she worked with twice, first as a co star in the Great American Quilt and then later when she was directed by her in down in the Delta. Okay, be right back. Okay, confession time. Store locked. Yeah, I'm almost done with my holiday shopping. I've got the kids covered, I've got Justin covered. Even the teachers are covered. But there's always, always one name that just sits there on my list like a final boss battle. My father in law. He's one of those oh Jesse, no, don't get me anything people. Which is sweet until you're the one staring at a shopping cart full of emergency last minute gift ideas thinking, oh gosh, I don't know, does he really need another flashlight? But this year I actually feel calm about it because Macy's great gift sale is happening right now. It's 10 days of curated gifts for every type of person, including the no really don't get me anything crowd and things are up to 60% off, which speaks to the part of me that loves giving gifts and also loves a good deal. And here's what's saving me. Macy's has same day delivery and buy online pickup in store. So even if you're cutting it close and no judgment, I'm right there with you. Macy's makes it feel easy. So yes, this is my moment. I'm grabbing my pen, crossing off my father in law's name and honestly, that little rush of relief and is the real holiday bonus for me.

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[Alfre Woodard]

Click on the link and book it. Oh wow.

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[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And we're back with more dinners on me. I do.

[Joanna Clay]

Before I. Before I forget, since you brought it up, I. So I absolutely binged the first three episodes of the Last Frontier. It is so exciting. I was just telling Joanna, like, I. That first scene of the pilot, I.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Was like, I don't know if I've.

[Joanna Clay]

Ever seen anything more intense in my life.

[Alfre Woodard]

Yes.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I was like, first of all, this.

[Joanna Clay]

Must have cost $7 billion to shoot over the course of seven years. Like, it just looked so complicated.

[Alfre Woodard]

A real frigging plane.

[Joanna Clay]

I don't understand.

[Alfre Woodard]

It wasn't a pizza plane. They, they. That was a real plane.

[Joanna Clay]

And one of the funniest moments for me was one of the. So it's a. It's a plane of inmates that is being transferred and the plane crashes in rural Alaska.

[Alfre Woodard]

What makes it interesting? So it's all this action. I have to tell you about when we first saw that scene. But there's a lot of tenderness. You see love and people. It's a kind of. It's a kind of scene that you seldom see in the lower 48. It's kind of how rural people used to be two or three generations ago. How you look out for each other.

[Joanna Clay]

And, you know, great sense of community. I mean, that's.

[Alfre Woodard]

Yeah. Their head. Those. Those escapees are headed for those people. Those people, you know, they're. They haven't had to kill people before. They all got guns because they hunt and they also, they look out for each other because it's such a. The harsh land that you could just go out and easily die in a night just because it's cold or your truck stopped or any number of things. It's just. There's so many times you're just shrieking and you're nervous and all of that's going on. But at the same time, part of why that plane went down has international espionage ramifications. So there's a lot of. It's like the two worlds colliding. So I'm in dc, I'm the deputy director of the CIA. And so you see people in DC and the marshals on the ground up in Alaska that the DC people are just thinking they're hayseeds and they're going to screw this up. And it's all. Yeah. It's just. And we all have stunt people.

[Joanna Clay]

Yeah.

[Alfre Woodard]

And they are heroic.

[Joanna Clay]

So there's stuff coming up.

[Alfre Woodard]

Yeah.

[Joanna Clay]

Do you end up in Alaska?

[Alfre Woodard]

Well, things are falling apart. I'm the deputy Director of the CIA and I'm running an off the books operation for the CIA. And I'm given absolute carte blanche. I answer to nobody because I'm absolutely committed to preserving democracy. And we, the people that are charged with overseeing that happen, will do anything to keep the bad actors as far off the shores as possible. So maybe I'll go to Alaska.

[Joanna Clay]

I. I did an episode of who do youo Think youk Are? Which I think you did as well. And I ended up in Alaska on my journey. My great grandfather ended up in the Gold Rush in Alaska. And so I actually went up to that part of the country and it was my first and only time up there. And it really is truly stunningly beautiful country.

[Alfre Woodard]

Yeah.

[Joanna Clay]

I mean, unlike anything I've ever seen before, though. I mean, it is. I mean, it's a brutal country. I mean, the weather is unforgiving and. But also just so stunning and just epic and vast. And I mean, it was really an incredible experience being able to go up there and then, you know, on top of that, like, learned about my. My family.

[Alfre Woodard]

Okay. I'm snapping down all the oysters.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Have them.

[Alfre Woodard]

I wanted to tell you about at bu. Paul Rubens and I were in Rick Ross. We were. We did our first scene together.

[Joanna Clay]

Can we back up a little bit?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Did you say Paul Reubens?

[Joanna Clay]

Was he one of your colleagues? That's incredible.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yes.

[Joanna Clay]

So you went to school together?

[Alfre Woodard]

Yeah, we did.

[Joanna Clay]

Oh, my gosh.

[Alfre Woodard]

He stayed. He stayed until middle of the sophomore year and then realized.

[Joanna Clay]

Were you friends?

[Alfre Woodard]

Yes.

[Joanna Clay]

Oh, did you remain friends?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yes.

[Joanna Clay]

I got to meet him.

[Alfre Woodard]

He left and came to town.

[Joanna Clay]

Oh, my God.

[Alfre Woodard]

Which is where he should have been in the first place. Because, you know, I mean, what did.

[Joanna Clay]

You think when he, like when Pee Wee happened and you're like. That's like. Because it was so weird and strange and did it make sense?

[Alfre Woodard]

Yes. People were creative and it depended on where you took your creativity.

[Joanna Clay]

Yeah.

[Alfre Woodard]

And whether the people there were afraid of it or they felt they could handle it. I mean, that's the thing. When you're in a situation. We don't turn into artists. We are already. We're the ones that are hotwired to surrender to it. Everybody is creative, but some of us surrender to that principle more easily.

[Joanna Clay]

You once said something. I remember this. I don't Know where I heard you say this? You said for you, it was like, with acting, that you were, like, always doing the breaststroke, and then someone just tipped you into the water and you're like, oh, that's why I'm doing this.

[Alfre Woodard]

And it's just like. And you didn't say, that's why I'm doing it. Because that's thought that's cerebral. You just.

[Joanna Clay]

But it felt like.

[Alfre Woodard]

Oh, you just felt that same thing that people were making allowances for. Yeah, it just was like, there's freedom right there. And you get your first hit of oxygen, and you want to live in that. And you will do anything. You put up with anything. Any business is. Is dealing out just to live between action and cut.

[Joanna Clay]

Yeah. When you're talking about just people who work and, you know, you recognize these faces and, like, there's so many people in our industry who you do see, and you're like, how do I know that person? How do I know that person? It's interesting because when I was watching the first episode of your show of the Last Frontier, I saw this guy, Damien Young. He's one of the plays, one of the convicts. I think he's one of the ones that doesn't survive because I haven't seen him again. But I used to babysit his kids in New York. He's a great actor. He's a theater actor in New York. He played Lisa Kudrow's husband on the Comeback. And like, he's one of. He works, you know, consistently. But here he was in what I think is just one scene of this rape pilot. And I was like, wow, that's. I haven't seen him in 20 years. And immediately I was like, what? First of all, he looks exactly the same, but, like, it's just. It's astonishing how. How many people, you know, have this passion and just put one foot in front of the other and don't necessarily get the accolades and yet still show up or the jobs.

[Alfre Woodard]

Yeah, you still work that craft. You practice. And even if you've got a job, you have to keep practicing. That's the joy of it, is that there's no right or wrong. There's no end date, no take, expiration date. This show is just chock a block with top flight actors.

[Joanna Clay]

Yeah. Truly, there's.

[Alfre Woodard]

There's not a role. Whether it lasts one scene and they only have two lines. There is not a person on camera that. That hasn't come into that moment with all their backstory and everything tight, so that it's not A character. It's a human being. That's what's so arresting about this, besides the bass and all. It's full of really good actors that belong in the center of the frame.

[Joanna Clay]

Yeah.

[Alfre Woodard]

Instead of on the edges.

[Joanna Clay]

I mean, you've worked with incredible people and you're. I mean, you must. You have to feel so fortunate. I mean, I mean, that's what I. That's one of the great gifts of. I feel like my career is that I. Even this dinner that I'm having with you, I'm like, I get to have these moments with people that I just admire so much. I think about how. I think terrified and intimidated. I would be working with someone like Maya Angelou, you know.

[Alfre Woodard]

In her.

[Joanna Clay]

You know, I know you did. It was her first and last thing that she directed that you did with her.

[Alfre Woodard]

Yeah. I think she might have directed something some years ago, but this was definitely the. The biggest thing that she directed. She might have. That might have been the second thing that she's ever directed.

[Joanna Clay]

Yeah. I mean, what was. Well, I guess I just want to know what it was like to work with someone who's.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I don't know.

[Joanna Clay]

I've put her on such a pedestal to then be working with her in a medium that she was maybe, you know, like, not quite so sure footed in.

[Alfre Woodard]

She was. But she was sure of herself. But again, because you don't walk the roads that she's walked and not depend on your own sense of deserving to be wherever you are at any moment. But. And she's a poet. That was. What was the thing is that, yes, she's very creative and all. She's a dancer and all these things, but she was a poet, and poets write more than anybody by themselves. So there she was with a crew and she had a very, you know, she had a very strong. Way of running a set that was antithetical to the way we all do. You know, she set everybody down. Yeah. But us. The person said, you know, first of all, My name is Dr. Angelo. It is not Maya to you. But anyway, so, yeah, it was wonderful to spend time with her and to know her. Yeah. And I remember her saying to me, when we work, she goes, alfred, you do not have to call me Dr. Angelo. You call me Maya. And I said, I'm not calling you Maya.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Not after that talk.

[Alfre Woodard]

I said, okay, let's do Ms. Maya, because, like, Ms. Maya.

[Joanna Clay]

But it's incredible. Yeah.

[Alfre Woodard]

Okay.

[Joanna Clay]

The last thing I want to know. What are you doing for your anniversary?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, that's what we Needed to do.

[Joanna Clay]

Holla.

[Alfre Woodard]

You know. Look at you.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, that's awful lighting. No, that's too much. You think? That's.

[Alfre Woodard]

No. 1, 2, 3.

[Joanna Clay]

That's like. This is, like tennis court lighting.

[Alfre Woodard]

That's.

[Joanna Clay]

No, absolutely not. No, you look at me.

[Alfre Woodard]

I didn't even know you were that cute.

[Joanna Clay]

Come on. Oh, my God. It's too bright.

[Alfre Woodard]

It is bright.

[Joanna Clay]

That's like Wimbleton.

[Alfre Woodard]

That's the lighting I'm gonna use when you do your club ad. Whatever.

[Joanna Clay]

My nut huggers. Oh, it's so much softer and nicer. I'm a big. This is. Okay, let me tell you something. Justin and I moved into this modern house. We used to have this beautiful house in Los Feliz. And, like, it had, you know, all the bulbs were, like, you know, edits and bulbs and, like, had this old, like, you turn the knobs and, like, dim things, and I would go around and just, like, dim everything. Now we live in this new home in Encino, and it's beautiful, but it's like a Lutron system where you press a button on your iPhone and, like, the lights go on. And it took me years to finally program all the lights. So it's not this, you know, that I want this. I want this.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And so I will, like, be on. I'll be on the.

[Joanna Clay]

I'll be on the other coast. I'll be in, like, New York working or something. And I know that Justin will be having a. A dinner party. And I'll go onto the camera and. And I could see in the kitchen on the camera, because we have a camera inside the kitchen. And I will adjust the lighting from the East Coast.

[Alfre Woodard]

No, no, you don't.

[Joanna Clay]

And he'll get on the phone, he's.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Like, stop fucking with the lighting.

[Joanna Clay]

We all think we're having strokes over here. Like, oh, my God.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Joanna Clay]

I'm crazy.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I was like, no, they want.

[Joanna Clay]

They want better lighting, believe me. Thank you for doing this.

[Alfre Woodard]

You're the best. You're so. You're so deserving of. Of a good life. Of the good life you're having with. With him and the children.

[Joanna Clay]

Thank you. I'm having a really good time, and I'm trying. I have never been one to focus on my age and that, like, I. I feel great in every age that I'm in. I'm actually really excited about turning 50, and I feel like I'm in. I'm. I love my life. I love my family so much. I love that I get to do this. I love that I get me People like you and, I mean, this has been a dream come true for me. I love doing this.

[Alfre Woodard]

Don't worry about your age. Don't ever think about it. It's you living in the middle of eternity.

[Joanna Clay]

Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. I appreciate that. But I do think you need to do something for your anniversary. So we're going to pack this up and send this to your husband.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

This episode of Dinner's on Me was recorded at Salty Girl in West Hollywood, California. Next week on Dinners On Me, we are replaying a very special episode. You know him as Manuel Alberto Javier Alejandro Ramirez Delgado, also known as my stepbrother Manny. On Modern Family, it's Rico Rodriguez. We'll reminisce about our time together on the set of Modern Family, and Rico opens up about how the loss of his father shaped his approach to acting.

[Joanna Clay]

And if you don't want to wait.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Until next week to listen, you can download that episode right now by subscribing to Dinners On Me. Plus, as a subscriber, not only do you get access to new episodes one week early, you'll also be able to listen completely ad free. Just click try free at the top of the Dinners on Me show page on Apple Podcasts to start your free trial today. Dinners on Me is a production of Sony Music Entertainment and a kid named Beckett Productions. It's hosted by me, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. It's executive produced by me and Jonathan Hirsch. Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Our associate producer is Alyssa Midcalf. Sam Baer engineered this episode. Hans Dale. She composed our theme music. Our head of production is Sammy Allison. Special thanks to Tameka Balance Kolasny and Justin Makita. I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Join me next week.

[Lipstick on the Rim Host]

This is not a drill. For the first time in Lipstick on the Rim history, a real housewife has entered the studio. And not just any housewife. Rachel Zo, the fashion legend herself. Did we expect styling stories, glam chaos stories from the past decade in a full cat eye at all times? Yes. Did we expect her to open up about divorce, rediscovering herself, joining Housewives with zero prep, and what it feels like to finally feel like her again? No. It is vulnerable, iconic, hilarious, and one of our favorite conversations ever. The Real Housewives have officially entered the chat. Listen now.