Colton Underwood – on causing a stir on ‘Traitors’ and his husband’s Bachelor binge

Summary

Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson

Episode: Colton Underwood – on Causing a Stir on ‘Traitors’ and His Husband’s Bachelor Binge
Recorded: February 3, 2026
Location: The Butcher’s Daughter, West Hollywood, Los Angeles

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Episode Overview

In this candid and lively episode, Jesse Tyler Ferguson sits down with Colton Underwood—former Bachelor star, bestselling author, and newly-minted dad—at the health-conscious Butcher’s Daughter café. The pair dig into Colton’s current reality TV turn on 'The Traitors', reflect on his complicated Bachelor legacy and coming out, and exchange thoughts on queer representation in sports and media. Over scrambled eggs and breakfast burritos, the conversation swings from laugh-out-loud reality show shenanigans to deeply personal revelations about identity, mental health, and fatherhood.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Inside 'The Traitors' and Reality TV Dynamics

• Filming Realities & Alliances ([01:19]-[06:00])

  • Colton describes how expectations and alliances are constantly disrupted by big personalities like Lisa Rinna.
  • “You can go in with a clear strategy…and then you meet Lisa Rinna and you’re like, ‘oh, f**k, now I can’t play this way.’” – Colton ([01:44])
  • Insight into filming hours—late nights, high endurance, and the competitive atmosphere especially for “traitors.”
  • The psychological stamina required: “There is an endurance… shooting a show like this.” – Colton ([02:44])

• The Donna Kelce Moment (Taylor Swift’s Future Mother-in-Law) ([02:03]-[06:00])

  • Colton reveals hesitation to “go after” Donna Kelce to avoid backlash from Taylor Swift's fanbase—the “Swifties”—because of his family.
  • “The last thing my husband told me…was like, ‘if Donna’s there, do NOT go for her…do not put the Swifties on us. We have a family now.’” – Colton ([04:14])
  • Talks about the pressure of leading the charge against Donna, how reality editing amplifies or rearranges what actually happens, and how self-preservation drove his choices.

2. Breaking Down Reality TV Tropes and Personal Strategies

• Navigating Social Groups and Stereotypes ([06:02]-[08:00])

  • Discussion of reality show archetypes (Housewives, Gamers, Love Island people), and how Colton—a Bachelor “outsider”—struggled to fit into established cliques.
  • “They still put, like, the Bachelor there, even though… I’m not really connected with any of those people anymore.” – Colton ([05:53])

• Reality TV Production Secrets ([08:34]-[10:15])

  • Colton discusses not knowing who’s cast until arriving, and the lack of real alliances in early car rides.
  • Amusing behind-the-scenes tidbits about never actually eating on 'The Bachelor':
    • “On the Bachelor, you’re literally out to dinner dates… you’re not eating on those dinner dates?”
    • “No… it’s all for camera. So anyway, this is a treat for me.” – Colton ([10:12])

3. Mental Health, Therapy, and the Toll of TV Fame

• Contrast with ‘The Bachelor’ and Self-Protection ([14:44]-[15:38])

  • Colton compares 'The Traitors' environment—where he proactively used the show psychologist—with his Bachelor tenure, where therapy was less accessible and often “used” for production.
  • “I was one of the only people to read my contract. If you ask for the show therapist, they have to contractually put cameras down.” – Colton ([15:09])

• Impact of Public Scrutiny and Coming Out ([16:28]-[21:58])

  • Jesse and Colton share parallels in negotiating sexuality, toxic masculinity, and faith.
  • Colton describes his deeply conflicted experience on 'The Bachelor'—trying to suppress his sexuality in an ultra-heteronormative context, the pain and mental breakdown during COVID, and the ongoing challenge of being labeled by those years.
  • “Even doing a show like Traitors, right under my name is ‘The Bachelor’… And even though I’d consider that one of the most painful chapters of my life…there’s no running from it.” – Colton ([17:49])
  • The haunting reality of digital permanence and parenthood:
    • “My mistakes as a 20-year-old are so publicized…I never want my son to read [those stories], but…I’m gonna have to.” – Colton ([21:31])

4. Relationships, Privacy, and Revisiting 'The Bachelor' as a Couple

• Keeping Love Private and Reclaiming Narrative ([22:23]-[24:50])
  • Colton and husband Jordan’s decision to keep their relationship secret post-Bachelor, trauma from public relationships, and Jordan eventually bingeing Colton’s Bachelor season to understand more of his history and fanbase.
  • Amusing anecdotes about Jordan's reactions and fan encounters:
    • “[Jordan] comes to me…‘do you mind if I watch the show?’…He would be in the bathroom, watching upstairs, and I would just hear him start [critiquing].” ([24:03])

5. Representation in Sports and Pop Culture

• Coming Out in Athletics, Locker Room Culture, and Progress ([27:31]-[33:20])

  • Colton reflects on being an “out athlete” and the immense pressure of representation post-Netflix docuseries.
  • Insightful, honest opinions on the lack of queer acceptance in major US sports leagues:
    • “I think I can say it has not gotten to a place where I would like to see it…players can’t express themselves freely out of fear for their job, fear for media, fear for the organization.” – Colton ([29:04])
  • Story of Michael Sam, the NFL’s first openly gay draft pick, and how fleeting “inclusivity moments” can be used for PR.

• Locker Room Homophobia, Coaching Turns, and Personal Transformation ([32:42]-[33:28])

  • Colton shares coming out to his college coach and how the coach’s support and subsequent change in language impacted both their lives.
  • “I called him…‘I came out to my parents.’ He goes, ‘I’m so proud of you…I’m sorry for the way I talked to you over the years.’” ([32:47])
  • Coach’s humor and clumsy but earnest support highlighted in:
    • “So, what kind of dicks are we into?” ([32:42])

6. Heated Rivalry, Queer Storytelling, and the Evolution of Representation

• Queer Hockey Love Stories and Female Friendship ([33:56]-[36:44])

  • Colton praises HBO’s ‘Heated Rivalry’ for showing a queer story “in a non-traumatic way,” and highlights the importance of female allies in male coming-out journeys.
  • Jesse and Colton discuss the phenomenon of 'Heated Rivalry,' its YA appeal, and the freshness brought by unknown actors.

• Typecasting, Fan Adoration, and Living Beyond Labels ([37:33]-[39:22])

  • Both men muse about the blessings and curses of breakout roles and realities of typecasting, using their own experiences (Colton as “the former Bachelor”, Jesse for ‘Modern Family’).
  • “You know the first line of your obituary is going to be ‘the former Bachelor.’” – Jesse ([39:09])
  • “I mean, yes.” – Colton ([39:12])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Colton’s husband, Jordan, warning about The Swifties:
  “He basically was like, if Donna’s there, do not go for her…Do not put the Swifties on us.” ([04:14])

• Colton on the burden of reality TV identity:
  “Even doing a show like Traitors, right under my name is ‘The Bachelor’…And even though I’d consider that one of the most painful chapters of my life…there’s no running from it.” ([17:49])

• Colton recalling support from his college coach:
  “He goes, ‘I’m so proud of you. I’m sorry for the way I talked to you over the years…So, what kind of dicks are we into?’” ([32:47])

• Jesse’s empathetic reflection:
  “I can’t even fathom what it’s like to struggle with that on a show that celebrates heteronormativeness. It’s really astonishing, such a rich and complicated groundwork…” ([17:10])

• On reality TV editing and outsized reactions:
  “There’s so much that ends up on the editing room…they’re molding how they want the audience to react to all of you.” – Jesse ([06:24])

• Colton on public mistakes and fatherhood:
  “My mistakes as a 20-year-old are so publicized and opinionated…The internet’s forever. One day my son is going to have to…read those.” ([21:31])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• The Traitors & Donna Kelce: [01:19]–[06:00]
• Editing & Game Strategy: [06:02]–[08:00]
• Reality TV Eating Habits: [10:06]–[10:15]
• Therapy and The Bachelor: [14:44]–[15:38]
• Coming Out Journey & Public Scrutiny: [16:28]–[21:58]
• Fatherhood & Relationship Privacy: [22:23]–[24:50]
• Queer Representation in Sports: [27:31]–[33:28]
• Heated Rivalry & YA Love Stories: [33:56]–[36:44]
• Breaking Free from Typecasting: [37:33]–[39:22]

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Tone and Takeaways

The episode is honest, warm, irreverent, and deeply personal, blending laughter with vulnerability. Colton and Jesse’s easy rapport opens space for hard truths about fame, sexuality, and the enduring effects of public life, all without self-pity. The conversation balances reality TV spectacle with clear-eyed reflection on growth, acceptance, and the ongoing struggle for LGBTQ+ visibility in sports and media.

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This summary offers a comprehensive guide to the episode’s revelations, humor, and emotional resonance—capturing what makes both the show and its guests unique for listeners new and returning alike.

Transcript

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Hey, it's Jesse today on the show. You know him from the Bachelor, from coming out. Colton. He's a best selling author, he's a podcast host, and he's on the new season of the Traitors. It's Colton Underwood.

[Colton Underwood]

He basically was like, if Donna's there, do not go for her, even if she's a traitor. Because he's like, do not put the swifties on us. Like, we have a family now. And we.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

This is hilarious.

[Colton Underwood]

You're finally, like doing well. You have a family.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

This is. Dinner's on me. And I'm your host, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. All right, so we're at the Butcher's Daughter here in West Hollywood in Los Angeles. I am so excited to meet Colton.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

And have a meal with him. It's been a while since I've seen him.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I thought this would be a perfect place to bring him. It's delicious, it's bright, it's airy, it's health conscious.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

He's an athlete.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

He likes to put healthy things in his body. But also, we're in the heart of West Hollywood in an area that celebrates the LGBTQ community. And Colton is in this beautiful new place in his life as a father, as a new husband. And I just thought this would be a great place to bring him. So I think he's coming in soon.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

And I'm excited to get to the conversation.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

So I've, I, at this point in.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Time that we're talking.

[Colton Underwood]

Right.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Like, everyone else who's around me in the world has only seen the first three episodes. Okay. Of the Traitors, which I'm obsessed with. I mean, it's already such a great season.

[Colton Underwood]

Yes.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

So you're saying, and I love this because by the time this comes out, everyone's like, I know what you're talking about, but what you're saying is some shit's going to go down next week that I don't know about personally that you're not going to spoil for me in this moment.

[Colton Underwood]

I won't spoil it for you.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

I don't want to.

[Colton Underwood]

I know, and I won't. But yes, some shit's going to go down. Like I realized very early on. Okay, so you can like go into this game and have a clear strategy and be like, this is how I'm going to play. And then you meet Lisa Rinna and you're like, oh, fuck, now I can't play this way because, like, she's here.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

So what I saw you, what I saw happen last week was Donna, Donna Kelce, soon to be Mother in law of Taylor Swift was outed as a trader. As a secret trader. So the audience didn't even know that she was.

[Colton Underwood]

I have theories. I think Donna would have crushed us. A regular traitor.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Yes.

[Colton Underwood]

I don't think she was about that life of staying up until 2 or 3 in the morning to film in the turret.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

So that's what. That's what?

[Colton Underwood]

I don't know. Like, I think.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Wait, wait, wait. But this is like behind the scenes stuff that I'm interested in. Do you have to stay awake until 2 or 3 in the morning to film the tour?

[Colton Underwood]

Some nights. Some nights filming is really late. Yeah. I mean, most of us are like, we've worked before. Like, we know, like, that's part of the job.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Sure.

[Colton Underwood]

But yeah, some lights are. Some nights are really long. And so, like, there is an endurance that goes into us. You can ask Lisa about this, but, like, there's like an endurance into shooting a show like this. Because if. Especially if you're a traitor. Because I can imagine, like, the bandwidth.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That was what I was thinking about.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

When I was watching it this past season.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And I don't know why I didn't.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Think about this earlier, but I was.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Like, oh, the traders have to work.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Like more hours for sure.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Because they have to have a whole other, like.

[Colton Underwood]

But they also get rewarded with more screen time.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Yes.

[Colton Underwood]

You know? Yes. So.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And honestly, if I was on the.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Show, I'd want to be a traitor too, for sure.

[Colton Underwood]

I think everybody. Yeah.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Okay. Well, I'm so excited about next week then.

[Colton Underwood]

This is.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

This is exciting. But what were you. Because you really helped. You, like, really, like, led the charge against Donna.

[Colton Underwood]

Yeah, well, so what I was saying is I realized very early on that I could not play a small game. Like, when I walked into a room, people, like, looked at me and like, naturally I'm like, I'm like 6:3. I'm a bigger build. I was doing really well on the challenges. So, like, I was like, okay, like, laying low is not gonna be in the cards for me here. So, like, I just have to step up and, like, do this. And then also there's a part of me because it doesn't play necessarily how it went down. But, like, everybody was like, scared. Everybody's like, maybe Donna. I'm like, okay, Donna, like, let's focus on that. Like, why were they scared?

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Because they just don't want to go after the.

[Colton Underwood]

Well, especially the first one. You start throwing out names and then all of a sudden the target gets put back on you. Yeah. So, like, I think everybody was sort of like, who's gonna say it? Who's gonna do it first?

[Jonathan Hirsch]

And you were.

[Colton Underwood]

And I sort of was. And, like, I was terrified because the last thing my husband told me before, because I don't. I mean, I had heard that she was possibly cast on this. Like, we don't know for sure.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

That's not the question I have for you. Okay.

[Colton Underwood]

He basically was like, if Donna's there, do not go for her. Like, whatever happened, even if she's a traitor. Because he's like, do not put the Swifties on us. Like, we have. We have a family now. And we.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

This is hilarious.

[Colton Underwood]

You're finally, like. You're finally, like, in the media.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Like, shot doing well.

[Colton Underwood]

You have a family. Like, let's just not ruffle any feathers there.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

We have Bishop to worry about. The Swifties will come after our son.

[Colton Underwood]

The night that I had to go after Donna, I was like, jordan's going to kill me.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

You had to do it.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You had to do what had to be done.

[Colton Underwood]

I had to do it. But could you imagine if she wasn't and I sent her home.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Yes.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

So much.

[Colton Underwood]

I would never work in this.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

I was kind of right. Exactly. I would be done right. You're not wrong. I was kind of shocked that. Because I guess for a viewer, and you can't look at it this way because you were in it, but I guess as a viewer, the minute she was revealed as the secret traitor, I was like, that is a little obvious.

[Colton Underwood]

I think it was an obvious play that she was going to be a.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Traitor, I think because she's the exact opposite of what.

[Colton Underwood]

In defense of her.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Yes.

[Colton Underwood]

Very difficult position to be. You're isolated, you know, you. I would not want to. I didn't. I wouldn't have wanted to be a secret trader.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And she already is an outsider because she's not part of this reality correct world. And she was a genuine fan of you.

[Colton Underwood]

It was sort of like, me, too. Like, I didn't really have a wagon to hitch to.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Like, I was gonna ask you who.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

You like, kind of.

[Colton Underwood]

Because, like, they still put, like, the Bachelor there, even though, like, I'm not really connected with any of those people anymore. But, like.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Right. I don't.

[Colton Underwood]

I don't really have a group of people. Right, right.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I mean, there's the gamers and the.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Housewives, and I think if I had to, like, categorize you as one of those people, it would be a housewives.

[Colton Underwood]

I mean. Yeah. Well, I gravitated towards Love island people, too.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Right, right, right, right.

[Colton Underwood]

Well, of course.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

I mean, that's how all these reality shows are, though. I mean, it's. You know, you have prototypes, and you go in and you have. Especially for an audience member, you have.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Such limited time with all these people. There's so much that ends up on.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

The editing and, like, they're really, like, molding how they want the audience to react to all of you. And you know this very well from beyond the Bachelor as well.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

But, like, you know, it's.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

There's very little room for nuance, and there's very little room for.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I don't know. I kind of think that you.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

You played it the right way by going in and being just a bold player. I had to.

[Colton Underwood]

I had to. And I think it fit my style. Yeah, the best.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

No, it felt knowing you.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

It felt. Didn't feel like you were not being true to yourself.

[Colton Underwood]

Hello.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

How are you?

[Jonathan Hirsch]

How's it going?

[Ethan]

Have either of you been here before?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I don't know if I have.

[Colton Underwood]

It's been a minute.

[Ethan]

There's a couple in New York.

[Colton Underwood]

Okay.

[Ethan]

There's also one in Venice.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

I've been into the one in New York. That's right.

[Ethan]

Do you want any drinks to start?

[Colton Underwood]

Yeah. Are you doing a drink?

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Not a. Not a drink drink, but, like, I'm going to do one of these delicious crust juices. You can have a drink, right?

[Colton Underwood]

No, I'm going to do Water Flower, though.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Oh, I'll do the Water Flower. That sounds nice.

[Colton Underwood]

I will join him in the Water Flower as well.

[Ethan]

Anything else right now? Any questions?

[Colton Underwood]

Okay.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

And we're gonna talk about this because. Might as well.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

But I'm on a soft food and.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Liquid diet right now because of a procedure I had. It's not a facelift. Something with my internal organs. And I'll get all into it with you in a bit. What can I have that's in that family?

[Ethan]

I was kind of thinking maybe you might like. The eggs are okay.

[Colton Underwood]

Eggs should be fine.

[Ethan]

Yeah. You might like this.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

I know. We'll see.

[Colton Underwood]

Style.

[Ethan]

Scrambled eggs. It's pretty soft. Very gentle.

[Colton Underwood]

I would.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Gentle sounds good to me. Yeah, I figured.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I'm.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

I'm on gentle foods right now.

[Colton Underwood]

I love it. I'm just going to let him pick my. My entree.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, really?

[Colton Underwood]

Yeah. I'm just. The only thing I don't like is olives.

[Ethan]

Okay. We're rolling the dice.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

We're rolling the dice with what?

[Colton Underwood]

Bring me your favorite item on the menu. Just make sure there's no olives.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Yeah.

[Colton Underwood]

Sweet.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Oh, I love your confidence.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I'm going to do the Greek style scrambled eggs.

[Ethan]

Yeah, Fantastic.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

The first eggs I've tried on this diet.

[Colton Underwood]

I'll hold your hand while you eat.

[Ethan]

My name. Just let me know if you need anything.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Thank you, Ethan. Yes, I'll need. I'll need your support.

[Colton Underwood]

Okay.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Wait, so you said you heard that.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Certain people might be on the show. Like, when do you find out?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Well, there was a few people who.

[Colton Underwood]

I heard that weren't there. So, like, that, you know that, like, it's only as good as your intel, right? You don't find out who's there until you step out of the car. Well, obviously, when you get in the car, you see the first two or three, right. Who you're in the car with, and then when you go and tell me.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Who you were in the car with in the first time.

[Colton Underwood]

I was in the car with. With Tara Lipinski. Ian and Porsche.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Got it.

[Colton Underwood]

So poor Ian and Porsche went home, like, 1, 2. So I was like, oh, our car got decimated right out of the beginning. But, like, I didn't really feel like an alliance forming with. With them anyway.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

And.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And so you find out the people.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Who are there, like, when you get.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Out of the car, was there anyone.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

That, like, when you saw them, you were like, super, like, starstruck by or jazzed by, and then also, like, super scared of, like, oh, fuck, that one's gonna be scary.

[Colton Underwood]

Immediately when I saw Lisa scared, I was like, no, thank you. I cannot.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Like, really?

[Colton Underwood]

No. Because, like, also before I left, Jordan was like, just, you're finally at this place in your career. Just don't fight with a housewife. I'm like, of course they put Lisa on my season. Like, I, like, naturally, I love her. But also, I know.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Did you know each other personally?

[Colton Underwood]

No, we had never met.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Okay.

[Colton Underwood]

I knew of her, she knew of me.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Sure.

[Colton Underwood]

So, like, that was always interesting.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

You both are notorious.

[Colton Underwood]

Yeah.

[Ethan]

Greek style scrambled eggs. And then I went with our house favorite, the breakfast burrito.

[Colton Underwood]

I'm a breakfast all day type of guy.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

This is incredible.

[Colton Underwood]

Wait, I'm so excited for. Because, you know on Bachelor, we're, like, told not to eat.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Wait a minute. Now, listen, I assume that at least.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

On the Bachelor, like, you're literally out to dinner dates.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You're not eating on those dinner dates?

[Colton Underwood]

No.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Oh, no.

[Colton Underwood]

It's all for camera. You don't really eat that. So anyway, this is a treat for me.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Okay. Just a little side sidebar for you to catch people up on where I'm at. I had this hiatal hernia, which is basically my stomach lining was coming through my diaphragm, and so I had to go and do an operation. And then they also, while they were in there, did this thing on my esophagus because I have really bad acid reflux and some time to get off the medication. And because of all these procedures, I have to be on soft foods and liquids for six weeks. And I'm entering my fifth week this week, which I can add now, like, scrambled eggs, risotto, and I had polenta last night. How much weight have you lost? I have lost, like, 10 pounds.

[Colton Underwood]

That would be the hardest part for me.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

The losing the weight part probably.

[Colton Underwood]

And, like, energy levels, I'm assuming, are down.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

They're not great, especially in the afternoon. Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Colton and I talk more about what's to come on this season of the Traitors, and we'll get into how he looks back on his time with the Bachelor franchise.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Okay. Be right back.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And we're back with more dinners on me. I just recently hung out and met.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Chris Shelle, who is a mutual friend now. You guys are very close. We just were in Cabo together, and I had a great time with her. She's obviously from selling Sunset, but she was on last season's of the Traitor. So I had some of these questions for her.

[Colton Underwood]

She was the first person I called.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

By the way, when I got the offer. Oh, yeah.

[Colton Underwood]

I was like, talk to me about this. She's like, you have to do it.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Yeah.

[Colton Underwood]

And she gave me all my tips.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

She did tell me that the food is terrible.

[Colton Underwood]

We had Kristin Kirsch on our season.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Yes, I know.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Who's a friend of mine as well.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Oh, gosh.

[Colton Underwood]

I don't want to shout the chefs there. But, like, Kristin basically went to production and was like, we need to, like, step this up.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Colton Underwood]

We were like, thank God you're here. Just, like, say something.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

I watched Kristen trying to butter a piece of toast in one of those episodes, and she's just, like, dealing with this, like, rock cold butter. Right.

[Colton Underwood]

None of the knives were sharp for legal reasons probably.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Of course.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Right.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

That's so that. That's hilarious. If that actually cracks, that food is not great.

[Colton Underwood]

Thank you.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Thank you.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Because on tv, that breakfast that you.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

All sit down for looks luxurious and stunning.

[Colton Underwood]

Is it? I'm a big breakfast guy, so you can put anything in front of me and, like, I'm gonna eat it. Huh. Our favorite activity at the breakfast, though, from speaking for the gays.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Yeah.

[Colton Underwood]

We just liked watching Rob eat his eggs because they were hard boiled. So we always, like, made it over under on how many bites it would take.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Oh, my God. That's really funny.

[Colton Underwood]

Just like, you find little things to keep yourself entertained while you're filming the show.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Wait, also, I did want to know.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

So, like, these shots of you, like.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

But okay, so talk to me of.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

The shots of, like, you all getting ready for bed, because those are fascinating to me. Just the.

[Colton Underwood]

Well, I don't know if you've seen any of mine yet.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

I don't haven't seen any, but I know.

[Colton Underwood]

I can only imagine when you're up for elimination or you can be banished.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Right.

[Colton Underwood]

And I've done a very good job at winning shields almost every challenge.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Yeah. So, yeah.

[Colton Underwood]

Because I knew I'm going to play a big game. I have to protect myself.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Yeah.

[Colton Underwood]

Like, I can't be the only one throwing names out here because, like, naturally you're gonna miss. And when you miss, then you have.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

A huge target on your back. Right.

[Colton Underwood]

But then also there was a little bit of strategy in me missing because when you miss, it puts a target on your back and the traders want to keep you around just in case.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Of like, oh, he's like a shield for them.

[Colton Underwood]

He has some heat on him at the round table.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Right.

[Colton Underwood]

Like, let's not. Stay away from us, people.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Yeah, right, right, right.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I did have a question about. I mean, you know, it is. It is a show that you can't.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Shoot through the entire time. So I assume there were days off that you had in there.

[Colton Underwood]

I think after the start, there was like a report day.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Okay, what would you do on your day off? Would you all hang out? You just work out?

[Colton Underwood]

I needed. I just need to move my body.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Yeah.

[Colton Underwood]

The challengers gave me a little bit of that. So that was really nice. But then, like, you're walking around a castle and, like, sitting there and talking. Like, I was like, I need to move.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, can we go for a walk?

[Colton Underwood]

Like, what do we got? Like, I want to go explore.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Right.

[Colton Underwood]

And then I met with this show psychologist because I was just like, I want to stay on top of that. Yeah. Something I didn't really have with Bachelor. So, like, there was nothing major because, like, the drama is the game.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

They don't have a psychologist on the Bachelor. Is that something that might have changed since?

[Colton Underwood]

They do, but producers, at least when I was bachelor, did not. Like, when I used him, used her. Because they want to get that in their confessionals, they want to use that kind of stuff. But I was, like, one of the only people to read my contract. And if you ask for the show therapist, they have to legally or contractually put cameras down. So that was.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[Colton Underwood]

Yeah. So that was like, you know, I. That was like, the whole me jumping the fence, and then they chased after me, and then, like, I asked for the therapist, and, like, you didn't see anything else after that.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Wow.

[Colton Underwood]

Because I was like. I'm, like, not good right now. I was also, two months into filming, like, I was brutal. I was a much different beast than this show.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

I just want to, like, preface this by saying I don't want to get, like, too much into the Bachelor stuff, because I'm really interested in, like, this next chapter of your life. I think it's really interesting, but just.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

In terms of, like, context for, like.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

You know, people who might not know a lot about you.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I mean. I mean, I got to know you.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

After you had already married Jordan.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And, you know, I have a lot.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Of friends who are actors, and, like, I know them really well, and I watch their work, and I, you know, see them playing this other role.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And when I was watching scenes from the Bachelor, I was like, let me just look at some of these scenes.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

So I watched you jumping the fence.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And I watched you, you know, like.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Some of these, like, difficult conversations that you were having.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And it was like I was watching.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

A friend of mine in a role.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Like, it was so far removed from the person who I know you to be. And I just was sort of. I'm just so fascinated because, I mean, I. I relate so much to you.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

In so many ways. I wasn't a football player. I was a musical theater kid. I didn't have the sports background, like, the hyper masculinity thing that you did that you went through. Like, I wasn't involved in, like, toxic.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Masculinity in the locker room, but I.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Grew up in the church, and I was raised Catholic, and I was afraid of, like, what homosexuality meant to my faith and my family. And so I really related to these.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Things that you had talked about. But I also know how hard it was just for me, struggling with my sexuality as a teenager and then in my early years as, like, an actor in New York. I can't even fathom what it's like to struggle with that on a show that basically celebrates heteronormativeness. You know, it's really astonishing. It's such a rich and fascinating and.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Complicated groundwork for this whole other chapter of your life where you're now married.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And have a kid and are, like, this incredible father. And, like, I just. I'm wondering, I guess my question in.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

All that is, like, like, what's your.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Perception of, like, the last 10 years of your life now on this other side of it, now that you are in such a healthy place and, like, does it feel like another person in another lifetime ago?

[Colton Underwood]

And, yeah, I mean, I appreciate you saying all that, but yet, basically, like, even doing a show like Traders, like, right under my name is the Bachelor. So, like, that is going to be with me for the rest of my life. Like, there's no running away from that. Even though I would consider that one of the most painful chapters of my life. Like, I grew up in the church. I grew up playing football. I threw my identity into both those. Like, you know, I. I really just wanted to be this football player, and I didn't want to have to deal with, like, my sexuality at all until it was too late. And then the Bachelor shows up, and I'm like, this could be a fun opportunity. I don't have football anymore, so let me try this. And then I, like I said I did Bachelorette, Bachelor in Paradise, and Bachelor, all while trying to push down and be like, you are not gay. You cannot be gay. Don't do this to yourself. Let's try to find a way to make, like, being straight work. So, like, obviously, navigating that had a ton of challenges. And at the same time, I like the entertainment industry, so there's, like, this constant push pull of, like, well, I have to keep doing this now because, like, I'm interested in this, and I like it. I'm good at it. But also, I'm not sort of, like, lying to myself. I'm lying to these people. I have to figure this out. This isn't fair to anybody, including myself. So it was, like, really is hard. And the fact that, like, during COVID I had a mental breakdown, and I was like, I can't do this anymore. Like, this is really intense. And the outside pressure of trying to stay in that relationship after the show is, like, hard enough when you're a straight man. So let alone somebody who's struggling with their sexuality trying to do that all while, like, navigating, blackmail, and, like, loosely trying to, like, slowly come out to himself was challenging.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

I can't. I honestly can't even fathom it. And we've talked about it just privately, you and I, about, like, what that was like, but it's just it really.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I mean, I guess what I want.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

To say to you is I'm so surprised.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And I know this took a huge.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Toll on you, but I'm surprised that.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You survived it at all. I mean, it's, it's. It's really something that as someone who struggled, you know, in high school, trying.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

To keep myself just alive day to.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Day, I can't even imagine putting the.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Pressure of like, cameras and the, the.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

The opinion of the nation right on.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Top of my already, like, weary shoulders.

[Colton Underwood]

It's. Well, yeah, and I mean, this is also like where the differences of still tv. You're on tv. Yeah, but like, you had Mitch to hide behind, right? Like in your performance, whether in one episode got picked apart, that was on you as a professional.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Right.

[Colton Underwood]

Versus, like, when things would hit the tabloids about me. Like, that's my life. That's who I am as a human being. And like, it struggles because it's so deeply personal. Like, I could still like, get fired up. Like, I remember when people critique me on a game or if I missed a tackle or had a bad play, like, on to the next one, right? Like when it becomes your life and it's like you're reading these articles and like, that's like the hardest part. Even today is still reflecting on those chapters, knowing one day Bishop, my son is going to have to like, he's. He could read those. Like, that is like the challenge. I'm like, I was a 20 year old lost, really lost, really hurt, really trying to figure himself out. Now all of a sudden, I have like a year, two years worth of news articles that I never want my son to read. But, like, I'm gonna have to, right? I'm gonna have to. So, like, I think that's like the hardest part in all of this is like realizing like, one, the Internet's forever. Two, my mistakes as a 20 year old are so publicized and scrutinized and opinionated when, like, people don't really fully understand what I was going through. And like, yeah, I don't owe that to anybody at this point. I don't care to fix. Like, there's no narrative that I want to like, fix or change because, like, I went through it. It's like I'm. That's not the point. But like, what is, is like, it's very complicated. And like you, I think most gay people just know like, that coming out journey is so complicated, so messy in so many different ways.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Now for a quick break, but don't go anywhere. When we return, Colton tells Me about coming out to his college coach. And given he's a former pro athlete, we had to discuss the spicy queer hockey love story. HBO's heated rivalry.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Okay, be right back.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And we're back with more dinners on me.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

How long did you date before proposal happened?

[Colton Underwood]

We tried to keep it under wraps for a while. We were dating seven or eight months before the proposal. Four months. Four or five months before it got leaked. We had a sneaky pic in Hawaii get posted.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Why did you want to keep it a secret?

[Colton Underwood]

I never wanted a public relationship after, like, what I went through.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Right.

[Colton Underwood]

Just because, like, especially coming from the Bachelor franchise, every one of your relationships is so publicized. You know, Jordan, like, yeah, he's not a very public person. Like, he can turn it on when he needs to. Yeah. Like, he doesn't really like to be in front of the camera or, like, have that moment.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Yeah.

[Colton Underwood]

So it was something we agreed on. And, yeah, I think now he's leaned into it because he felt like an. When we were in public and people would be like, what did you think of his fence jumping? Which everyone's like, I didn't watch that show.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Right.

[Colton Underwood]

He's like, I feel like there's a big chunk of your life that, like, I'm missing. So, like, I need to watch this. So he ended up.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Did he watch it?

[Colton Underwood]

Well, because when we first started dating, my only ask was I said, just please don't watch Sebastian. He goes, for sure, I'm good. I don't need to know. And then, like, a year and a half into our relationship, he came to me and he goes, we're outside Akbar, and he.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

One of the greatest gay bars in.

[Colton Underwood]

All of us, sweet lesbian couple came up to me and just said, your story was so inspiring. I watched the Bachelor with my family, and after you came out, I came out to my family. And so Jordan was like, I need to watch this because, like, I need to understand your fans more, and especially if I'm gonna be put on the spot. Like, he felt like an asshole in that conversation because she's like, like, what'd you think of that? And he was like, I didn't watch. So then he had a conversation with me. He's like, do you mind if I watch the show? And I was like, go for it. And he just gives me so much shit to just take.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

What did he say? I mean, he would.

[Colton Underwood]

I didn't want to watch it with him. I didn't.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

I know.

[Colton Underwood]

I never want to rewatch that again.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Why would you know he would be.

[Colton Underwood]

In, like, the bathroom, watching upstairs. And I would just hear him start.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Would you just hear, like, parts of the show that you were like?

[Colton Underwood]

Yes.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

He'd be like, wait, why are you.

[Colton Underwood]

He was so opinionated.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

So then he would come down from.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Like, an episode and have questions.

[Colton Underwood]

Questions.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Tell me some of the questions he had for you.

[Colton Underwood]

Well, like, and then he would become a fan. So he's like, hannah Brown, I love. Like, what did you. Why didn't you.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

And I'm like, I'm married.

[Colton Underwood]

Addictive.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Like, shut up. You're telling me.

[Colton Underwood]

Why didn't I go, I'm married to you now.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And I was like, also, I'm gay.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Right, right, right, right.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

But it was so.

[Colton Underwood]

I was like, oh, this is why this show works.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Yeah.

[Colton Underwood]

It was like. It just got my gay husband to, like, be opinionated about me choosing another girl.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Right.

[Colton Underwood]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Super invested. Okay. So I'm fascinated that Jordan watched the Bachelor. I think, you know, Justin sort of did the same thing with Modern Family. No, he watched every episode of Modern Family. But, like, I did a show before for that that he had never seen, and he watched it during COVID Called the Class, and I actually did watch some of it with him because I hadn't seen it in a while.

[Colton Underwood]

See, professionally, I know you more from Take Me out than Modern Family.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

I know. The greatest.

[Colton Underwood]

That was my favorite.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

That plays made for you.

[Colton Underwood]

It really was. I left and, like, I'm also.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

I'm still eating. Yeah.

[Colton Underwood]

Thank you. I'm also not a big. I shouldn't say big. I'm not a huge Broadway person. I wish I was more. If I lived in New York, I would go more often. But, like, previous to Take Me Out, I went to, like, Frozen with my friend Patty Mirin. She's excellent.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I didn't know you were friends with Patty.

[Colton Underwood]

With Patty and Colin, yeah. Yeah.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

I love them.

[Colton Underwood]

She so sweetly invited me to see Frozen.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

I love that.

[Colton Underwood]

I've seen it twice now.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Hilarious.

[Colton Underwood]

I saw it twice. Yeah, I love both of them. They're great. But anyway, other than that, I saw, like, Harry Potter. Really bad theatrical, like, resume that. Take me out as.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

I'm thrilled that I'm on the list.

[Colton Underwood]

You're not.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I feel like when you came to see my play, were you in the front row? I remember.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

I feel like I remember having eye contact with you.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, you were close, right?

[Colton Underwood]

Well, it's. Yeah, you. You preached to me in one of your.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I just feel like I remember seeing.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Your face in the audience.

[Colton Underwood]

No, I wasn't Front row. Because there's a very famous shower scene that I wish that I was front.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Row while that was going on.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Yeah, I know. I know.

[Colton Underwood]

That had to be such a trip to, like, navigate that. I mean, you weren't in the shower.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Let me tell you.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Like, okay, so I.

[Colton Underwood]

So. So this.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

How did that come to be. So Take Me out is a play.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

About a closeted baseball player on, like, a Derek Jeter level.

[Colton Underwood]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

And super, super famous, super big.

[Colton Underwood]

And.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

And then he comes out of the closet, and it's about, you know, toxic masculinity. It's got his, you know, acceptance of.

[Colton Underwood]

Of himself.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It's about so many things you did.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Tell me after you saw the play. You're like. Because you have been. Literally, you've lived that reality. You've been in a locker room, you know, as a professional football player. Like, you are. You know, you were closeted during that time. I mean, you. You spoke very eloquently to me about, like, how spot on that that scene was and really all the themes of the play. Yeah.

[Colton Underwood]

I mean, it's brilliant.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Do you feel like. Well, I have so many different questions.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

About this, but, I mean, first of.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

All, do you feel like things have.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Changed at all in that world?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I mean, I feel like there's more.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Sports figures who have come out now.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

As gay, but I do sometimes feel.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Like the majority of them have come out after retirement or after they've left whatever league they were playing for. But, like.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I'm sure you also probably have an influx of people who are still closeted within that community reaching out.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

To you because you're a safe person and certainly understand. Yeah.

[Colton Underwood]

Yeah. I mean, after my Netflix show came out, there was two active players in the NFL that reached out to me to confide in me and, like, asked for advice and help. And, like, one has a family, like, much different situation than what I went through. So, like. And also, I think that was, like, the complications of me all of a sudden being poster boy for, like, out athlete when that Netflix show dropped.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Yeah.

[Colton Underwood]

I was not ready to be anybody's mentor. I was, like, still very much coming out to myself that, like, all of a sudden, now I have people I feel responsible for, like, advice.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

I really. I resonate with all of that because I felt that same pressure with Modern Family, like, just the community's expectations on you. Yeah, that's hard. That is so hard.

[Colton Underwood]

I'm not. And, like, then. Then you also feel weird saying, like, I don't want to be this, but, like, I have this privilege of this platform. So now I have to get good at this quick. Yeah, like I can't. There is no like out for me here. So. But do I think it's gotten better? I think I'm always going to say no until like I truly believe there's been a debt made. I don't think there has. I think that. And when I say that, I'm talking.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

About the main thing.

[Colton Underwood]

Three leagues. So NBA, NFL. I'm speaking from a male perspective. Yeah. NBA, NFL, mlb. I mean let's include the NHL in now because of heated rivalry, but like.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

We'Ll get to that.

[Colton Underwood]

So I think I can say it has not gotten to a place where I would like to see it at over the years, even since I've come out.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Yeah.

[Colton Underwood]

Because there's many different things. I mean one, these are all big, big businesses that have a system put in place to make sure that players do not get bigger than the team and the teams do not get bigger than the league itself. This is a trickle down effect. And this doesn't only apply to sports, this applies to, to many different facets of our like system of a world. Right. So the players can't express themselves, themselves freely out of fear for their job, fear for media, fear for the organization. The organization then doesn't really reinforce or support people coming out because they're fearful that the league will then out them weird. But they'll be the first to use a gay player. Like look at Michael Sam, who's in my draft class, SEC defensive player of the Year, which I know I'm talking sports, so just stick with me here. It's a very high honor. And like SEC is arguably at that time was the best league in all of NCAA football. He is the best defensive player in that entire league. He gets drafted in the seventh round after he was openly gay. The last time an SEC defensive player was drafted in the seventh round, I don't know off the top of my head, but I would assume never. Like he's at least in the first three or first four rounds, but then on top of it he gets cut from the Rams and picked up for the Cowboys for two weeks. And within those two weeks he's a practice squad player. His jerseys are in the team thing. Highest rated Cowboy jersey for those two weeks and then as soon as those numbers started dipping, he got cut.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Yeah.

[Colton Underwood]

So it's like, you see, I think that's also what, like why I get fired up about this is because like you're not really allowed to come out. But Then also we get used. And then, like, I even remember, too. Like, even to this day, it's like they sort of just prayed you around, being like, look, we're inclusive. We have one here, we have one there. And it's like, your whole system isn't working here. And we have to figure out how to support gay players. Because, like, the only regret I have in my football career is I wish I would have played higher because I feel like I would have played looser. I wouldn't have to, like, have that, like, coil.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Can you go back and think about.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Like, what the reality of that would.

[Colton Underwood]

Have been for you?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Is it something that would have been possible?

[Colton Underwood]

I think so. I think, like, because I remember my phone call with my college coach. It just depends when I would have came out. If I came out in high school, would I have still received my Division 1 office? If I came out in college, would I still have been made All American team? Would I still have been, like, approached by agents? Like, what would that have looked like? But my college coach was super supportive, and, like, it was. It was so funny. I called him, and I think he was, like, having a beer, unwinding at the end of the night. So, hey, I just want to let you know, I couldn't. I mean, I was this phase of coming out where I couldn't say I'm gay. I was like, hey, I just want to let you know, I came out to my parents. And he goes, I'm so proud of you. That was his first thing. He goes, I'm so sorry for the way that I talked to you over the years. He used a lot of homophobic language in the way he motivated. Yeah, that's all I'll say. Sure. And then a third thing he said, he goes, so, what kind of dicks are we into?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, my God.

[Colton Underwood]

It was, like, right there where I was like, oh, you're a ride or die. Like, you were like, you care? Like, it was. It's so funny. And if you know him, he's, like, insane. He spoke at my wedding, like, also.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It'S such a straight guy, I think, to say, what kind of dicks are we into?

[Jonathan Hirsch]

All of them is the answer.

[Colton Underwood]

Thank you. I can appreciate.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

What do you mean?

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Any type of dick, dude.

[Colton Underwood]

I was like, okay, like, maybe. But, like, that was, like, the first thing in my head where I was like, oh, maybe I could have came out in college because, like, I might have had him to have my back. Like, I'm sure he wouldn't have gone as hard on, like, Any homophobic slurs. If he would have known that he had a gay person in his room.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And he probably, honestly.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Well, I don't know what he's doing with his career now, but like he's.

[Colton Underwood]

Still a coach and it's made.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I've talked to him. It's changed everything.

[Colton Underwood]

It's changed the way that he approaches it.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Absolutely.

[Colton Underwood]

I have this conversation with my friends because I'm still in like a group chat with some of my athletes who every once in a while will drop like, well, that's gay. And I'm like, let's use your words. What do you mean by this? Because I'm like, that is such a, like a lazy throwaway. So lazy. I'm like, what do you mean? Stop saying it's gay. What do you mean by that? And like once I say that, they're like, oh, I get it, you know. But wait, can we talk about hated rivalry? Did you watch it? Yeah.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Okay, so, okay, this is a good segue.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

So I'm only two in.

[Colton Underwood]

Okay.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

I am. Well, I, I want to start with you.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You, you tell me things about it.

[Colton Underwood]

What I love about it is it tells a queer story in a non traumatic way. And the other part that I appreciated that I don't think a lot of people talk about is, and you'll get to this point, the female roles play such a big, big role in coming out, men coming out. And I think you get to see two incredibly female led characters.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

The Russian girl, I assume she's one of them.

[Colton Underwood]

Russian girl. And then there's somebody else who you'll be introduced to that like in my opinion, having them in changed the entire dynamic of the show, at least for me as a viewer.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Like, interesting.

[Colton Underwood]

There was just so much appreciation and also like a little bit of jealousy where I'm like, I wish I had that in my coming out experience. 100% female gave me permission to open up some slowly and not judge me and also like not come for me if I said anything along the lines of exploring and not like sure that I want to be with you and.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Right.

[Colton Underwood]

So I think like that those are the parts for me that are brilliant. But wait, talk to me about your feelings. I mean with the first two.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Okay, so I, first of all, I.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

I think it's, I love that it's that it exists first of all. And I don't mean that in like a passive, like, like whatever. I'm glad it exists. Like I'm truly so happy it exists.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And I think having been a part.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Of A show like Take Me Out, I realized the importance of, like, representation in that community.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And I think it did actually make me think I was like, God, I wish Take Me out was honestly happening.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Now because I feel like this, this like buzziness about the locker room stuff and homophobia and being closeted and like the professional sports is so accessible to.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

People that I feel like, you know.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

That play could have succeeded on an even more successful level than it already did. Yep. I mean, it won best survival at the Tonys, so it did.

[Colton Underwood]

Okay, can I just say something? You walked so those two could run.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Could run. Okay, there you go. I'll accept it.

[Colton Underwood]

Connor and Hudson are having their moment because of Jesse. Well, and the cast of Take.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

But I do, I mean, I, I really appreciate that. It's that it exists for those same reasons that I love Take Me Out. I mean, I, you know, it's so.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Funny because, like, when there's so much hype around something.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Yeah.

[Colton Underwood]

I mean, I remember looking at Connor's Instagram or Hudson's Instagram seeing like 75,000 followers. 100,000. These guys are in the millions now.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Yeah. Oh yeah, for sure.

[Colton Underwood]

On every cover.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Yeah.

[Colton Underwood]

Presenting at the Golden Globes.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I mean, I have so many friends.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Who are in town for the Golden Globes and like, they're like, all of them have gotten friends, all of them have gotten photos with every single cast member of Peter Rival.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And these are, some of my friends are like super a list celebrities.

[Colton Underwood]

So what do you think it is.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Chasing after these guys?

[Colton Underwood]

What do you think it is pop culture wise right now that made this such a phenomenon? Because this doesn't happen anymore with like stream, in my opinion, with like, with streaming and like how many different things drop. It's very rare. Do things like this happen.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It's, you know what it feels like to me. I mean, it is a young, it.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Is a YA genre.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. I think like just the storytelling of the love story, it feels very ya.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

That means young adult in the biz.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And I just feel like it's a.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Really well done for that genre.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And I think that there hasn't been.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

A really great.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I don't know, it just feels, it feels like there's something forever everyone. And I don't know, I, I, there's.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Something about it being a slow burn.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

There's something about, obviously these guys are.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Like people who we've never seen before.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

We don't have any preconceived notions attached.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

To any of these actors. They are completely able to disappear into these roles. Because we don't know them from something else.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And it's sort of like it's that those things don't happen anymore.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

We don't give fresh young actors the.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Ability to, like, lead a TV show.

[Colton Underwood]

Yeah. And does something like this hurt or help a career? And I'm this. I don't want to put you on the spot or, like, make you throw shit, but, like, from a career standpoint.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It'S gonna make it difficult for. I just know having been on a.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Show that I was so closely tied to a character, it makes whatever you want to do afterwards hard. And that's just the reality of it. It's gonna be hard for those guys to, like, have people cast them in things where they're expected to be. Forget about this white hot success that they've had. That's just the reality of the thing.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

The show is so successful.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

They're on every red carpet, every talk show, which they should be. But it's just solidifying their identity into these roles and.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

But that's what they should be doing at this moment. People don't normally have successful like this.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

And they should be riding it. They should be enjoying every single moment of that.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

But, you know, it is like, you are at the end of that road.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

You are like kind of with a shovel. Be like, okay, how do I dig this identity out from around me?

[Colton Underwood]

I mean, that's somewhat of like, for me too. Like with the Bachelor, I don't really want to like, also, I'm like, I get it.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You know that like, the first line.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

Of your obituary is going to be.

[Colton Underwood]

Like, the former Bachelor.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, exactly.

[Colton Underwood]

I mean. Yes. Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

No, and I mean, like, even going.

[Colton Underwood]

On Traders, I was like, could they put coming out Colton here? Like, they're not right.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

No, no.

[Colton Underwood]

People don't know.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Absolutely not.

[Colton Underwood]

No.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

So, I mean, and that's just. That's the way it's going to be for a really long time.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

I cannot wait to watch the rest of the Traders. I'm so invested.

[Colton Underwood]

It's going to be great.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

I am so. My interest is so piqued from this conversation. I'm very excited to get.

[Colton Underwood]

I'm excited for you to have Lisa on.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That's me too.

[Colton Underwood]

That you are going to get yin and yang and it's going to be.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

I feel like I'm really like, I have some. Some great information to come into that. That conversation with, but I really adore. I don't want you to move away because I've really loved getting to know you over the past.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Like, five, six years.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

And I think you're just great. I love watching you blossom as a father. And I don't know, I just, I.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Really love our friendship.

[Jonathan Hirsch]

So I really so glad you did this.

[Colton Underwood]

I love our friendship, too.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

This episode of Dinner's on Me was recorded at the Butcher's Daughter in West Hollywood, California. Next week on Dinners On Me, you know him from Cheers, the Good Place, and more recently from Netflix's A Man on the Inside, it's Ted Danson. We'll get into his legendary run as one of TV's most iconic leading men and his latest chapter on screen, which this season includes his wife as a co star. And if you don't want to wait until next week to listen, you can download that episode right now by subscribing to Dinners On Me. As a subscriber, not only do you get access to new episodes one week early, you'll also be able to listen completely ad free. Just click Try free at the top of the Dinners on Me show page on Apple Podcasts to start your free trial today. Dinners On Me is a production of Sony Music Entertainment and a kid named Beckett Productions. It's hosted by me, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. It's produced by me and Jonathan Hirsch. Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Our associate producer is Alyssa Midcalf. Sam Baer engineered this episode. Hans Dale, she composed our theme music. Our head of production is Sammy Allison. Special thanks to Tameka Balance Kolasny and Justin Makita. I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Join me next week.