Martha Plimpton — on almost going broke pre 'Raising Hope' and missing River Phoenix

Summary

Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson Episode: Martha Plimpton — on almost going broke pre 'Raising Hope' and missing River Phoenix Release Date: June 17, 2025

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Introduction

In this heartfelt episode of Dinner’s on Me, host Jesse Tyler Ferguson sits down with the acclaimed actress Martha Plimpton. Recorded at Forza Wine Bar atop the National Theatre in London’s South Bank, the conversation delves deep into Martha’s personal and professional journeys, exploring her struggles, triumphs, and the enduring friendships that have shaped her life.

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Reconnecting and Current Projects [02:57 - 07:32]

Jesse opens the conversation by reminiscing about his two-decade-long friendship with Martha, highlighting their collaborative work both on stage and in productions like the Sondheim musical at the National Theatre.

Jesse Tyler Ferguson:
"Martha Plimpton and I have known each other for almost two decades now. We are dear friends... I have always wanted to get Martha on this podcast." ([03:13])

They discuss the current chaos at their theater due to a contagious illness affecting the cast, leading to last-minute changes and the resilience required to keep the show running. Martha humorously addresses the pressures of stage acting with lines like:

Martha Plimpton:
"It's a mental illness that we do what we do." ([07:34])

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Navigating the Theater World [07:32 - 17:00]

The duo delves into the unique challenges of stage acting compared to film and television, emphasizing the unpredictability and the intense need for presence in live performances.

Jesse Tyler Ferguson:
"In no other world of acting, like, on television or film, it's not as fly by the seat of your pants as theater is." ([07:49])

Martha shares her experiences dealing with performance anxiety, particularly during her stint in Pal Joey, where she nearly had a panic attack on stage. She reflects on overcoming those challenges and the ongoing battle with natural performance nerves.

Martha Plimpton:
"But the stage fright that I experienced during that show was next level and new." ([12:09])

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Reflecting on Early Career and Personal Struggles [17:00 - 32:03]

Jesse shifts the conversation to Martha’s financial struggles before landing the role in Raising Hope. Martha recounts her desperate attempts to secure income, including a humorous anecdote about offering babysitting services on Facebook.

Martha Plimpton:
"I remember putting on Facebook, I'll babysit. I'll do anything." ([29:11])

Their discussion highlights the often-overlooked financial instability actors face, regardless of early successes or family legacies. Jesse emphasizes the misconception that long-term success always translates to financial security.

Jesse Tyler Ferguson:
"They assume that you have, you know, tons of money saved up and, you know, but like it's these things go away." ([29:35])

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Iconic Moments and Emmy Reflections [32:03 - 36:56]

Martha and Jesse reminisce about an unforgettable Emmy Awards moment involving Amy Poehler, Tina Fey, and Edie Falco. They describe how this spontaneous celebration became an iconic television moment, fostering a sense of community and support among nominees.

Jesse Tyler Ferguson:
"It just felt like a breath of fresh air. And it felt like exactly what we all want to be feeling." ([35:55])

Martha elaborates on the camaraderie among actors and the importance of supporting one another in the often isolating entertainment industry.

Martha Plimpton:
"We should feel like we are kind of in a community." ([36:56])

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Life in London and Shifts in Career [36:56 - 43:26]

The conversation transitions to Martha’s life in London, where she discusses the cultural differences in how actors are perceived and treated compared to Hollywood. She praises the respect afforded to mature women in the UK acting scene, contrasting it with the often superficial nature of Hollywood.

Martha Plimpton:
"Hollywood just doesn't operate the same way for women. It just doesn't." ([43:26])

Jesse expresses admiration for Martha’s ability to navigate these environments, highlighting her roles in recent projects like Regime, Prime Target, and the upcoming show Task.

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Honoring River Phoenix: A Lasting Friendship [43:26 - 48:35]

A poignant segment of the episode is dedicated to Martha’s relationship with the late River Phoenix. Martha opens up about their friendship, the impact of fame on River’s life, and the enduring legacy of their bond.

Jesse Tyler Ferguson:
"You were very good friends with River Phoenix. You dated him for a little while... how did it feel?" ([43:31])

Martha Plimpton:
"He never really got the help that I think he would have done amazingly well with if he had gotten that help." ([47:12])

Martha reflects on the difficulties River faced with fame and addiction, emphasizing the importance of supportive relationships in overcoming personal struggles.

Martha Plimpton:
"Every single day, I miss him." ([48:02])

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Conclusion and Farewell [48:35 - End]

As the episode draws to a close, Jesse and Martha share a light-hearted moment over their favorite drinks at Forza Wine Bar. Jesse pays the bill, affirming the episode's title and theme.

Jesse Tyler Ferguson:
"I'm gonna pay the bill. That's the name of the podcast." ([48:35])

Jesse signs off by teasing the next episode featuring Alexander Skarsgård, ensuring listeners stay tuned for more engaging conversations.

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Key Takeaways

• Resilience in Acting: Both Jesse and Martha highlight the unpredictability and emotional demands of stage acting, emphasizing the importance of resilience and genuine passion for the craft.

• Financial Realities for Actors: Despite early successes and family legacies, financial struggles are a common reality in the acting world, underscoring the need for realistic career planning.

• Community and Support: The episode underscores the value of community and mutual support among actors, as exemplified by the memorable Emmy moment shared by Martha and Jesse.

• Personal Loss and Legacy: Martha’s heartfelt tribute to River Phoenix sheds light on the personal toll of fame and the enduring impact of meaningful relationships.

• Cultural Differences in Acting Communities: Martha’s experiences in London versus Hollywood highlight the differing attitudes towards actors, particularly women, in various cultural contexts.

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Notable Quotes

• Martha Plimpton:
  "It's a mental illness that we do what we do." ([07:34])

• Jesse Tyler Ferguson:
  "They assume that you have, you know, tons of money saved up and, you know, but like it's these things go away." ([29:35])

• Martha Plimpton:
  "We should feel like we are kind of in a community." ([36:56])

• Martha Plimpton:
  "He never really got the help that I think he would have done amazingly well with if he had gotten that help." ([47:12])

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Final Thoughts

This episode of Dinner’s on Me offers an intimate glimpse into Martha Plimpton’s life, from her early days in acting to her personal struggles and the profound friendships that sustain her. Jesse Tyler Ferguson masterfully guides the conversation, balancing humor with deep emotional reflections, making it a compelling listen for both fans and newcomers alike.

Transcript

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

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[Martha Plimpton]

My accountant and I talked. He was like, you have $300. Something needs to happen. And I remember putting on Facebook, I'll babysit. I'll do anything. And at the time, I was friends with this woman, and she almost responded too quickly and too glee. Gleefully. I'd love to hire you.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

This is Dinners on Me, and I'm your host, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Martha Plimpton and I have known each other for almost two decades now. We are dear friends. We work together on stage at the Delacorte Theatre in Central park doing Shakespeare. And now we're reunited almost two decades later playing husband and wife on stage in the Sondheim musical. Here we are at the National Theater in London. I am so excited to be working with her again, and I have always wanted to get Martha on this podcast. I am such a fan of hers. She is an 80s icon. I'm a massive fan of the Goonies. It's literally one of my favorite movies. I have always held my tongue when I'm around her because I don't want to embarrass myself. But here is my chance, my opportunity to gush to her about how much her career means to me and still be cool about it and feed her. So I decided to grab Martha before one of our performances and take her up to Forza Wine Bar at the top of the National Theater. It's this beautiful wine bar with great tapas. They have incredible natural wines, beautiful view of the south bank riverfront and the Thames River. Forza has definitely become a. It's almost like a second home to Martha Plifton and I because it's at our work. It's upstairs. It's steps away from our stage door. Martha and I know this menu very, very well. It's the first time Walter, her service dog, has eaten here, though, so that's exciting. Okay, let's get to the conversation. Hi.

[Martha Plimpton]

Hi. Hi, honey. So fun to be here with you at Forza, the wine bar.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

We've never been here, have we, Martha?

[Martha Plimpton]

We've never, ever, ever eaten here, ever.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

We have not ever eaten here. We work in the building, and we come here Almost once a week.

[Martha Plimpton]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Hi, how are you?

[Martha Plimpton]

Could we just have some tap water to start?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

For sure.

[Martha Plimpton]

To start. And do you have just iced tea?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Iced tea, yeah, we could do that.

[Martha Plimpton]

I would love an iced tea.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I've never heard you more sad.

[Martha Plimpton]

It's amazing.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I've never heard you more sad than just now drinking iced tea at a wine bar. You're being very responsible.

[Martha Plimpton]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I'll have an iced tea as well to make Martha not feel so lonely. No worries.

[Martha Plimpton]

Perfect.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Look at those knives.

[Martha Plimpton]

Thank you very much.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I think it's sort of interesting just to, like, talk about, first of all, why we're here at this restaurant. Obviously, we're working at the national right here in London, Right. Doing Sondheim's. Here we are. And this is an incredible building. So we're having a little bite before our evening show.

[Martha Plimpton]

Right.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

But also, there's chaos going on in our theater right now because we have a little bit of a bug going through the cast. And one of our actresses is sick, and she's out. And her understudy has been out as well.

[Martha Plimpton]

Right.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Sick. And, like, seriously, like, not well.

[Martha Plimpton]

Not like a cold or laryngitis, like an actual illness.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Been put on fluids. And one of our other actual fluids, Denis o' Hare, has also been out with a. For a week with emergency things. And so last night, instead of doing a show, we canceled the show.

[Martha Plimpton]

Right.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Which we did not want to do because 900 people had tickets to come see. Here we are at the national, and we had to cancel that show. And what we did instead was because we don't have anyone available for this role, a plan B, which is Lily, our assistant director, going on with script in hand.

[Martha Plimpton]

C, frankly.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Plan C. Yeah, plan C with script in hand. Which is not easy. And it went surprisingly smooth. Yeah, it wasn't ideal, obviously. You know, it's not a performance. She's basically Elmer's glue to, like, keep the show together. So we don't have to cancel a show tonight. All is well. But there was a point where we thought we might be going on tonight with.

[Martha Plimpton]

With an assistant director. The assistant director reading from an iPad and wearing her normal clothes. Ah. Which would have been very.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It wouldn't have been ideal.

[Martha Plimpton]

It would not have been ideal.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

But, you know, it's part of the beauty of being a stage actor, and it's also, like a part of the. I can't believe sometimes that we do what we do.

[Martha Plimpton]

It's a mental illness that we do what we do.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It's a mental illness.

[Martha Plimpton]

It's a mental illness. Jane says it almost every night. She comes backstage, and right before she says her first line in the play, she says, why are we doing this? What are we doing?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

But we all love it so much.

[Martha Plimpton]

Yeah, we love it because we're sick. Because we're sick people.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

In no other world of acting, like, on television or film, it's not as fly by the seat of your pants as theater is. I think the term the show must go on has been softened a little bit, because I feel like we have to think of ourselves and take care of ourselves. But that is sort of like the. Yes. Have you had any thoughts on food at all? Oh, we've had thoughts. We know. We've had the whole. Well, we've had the whole menu.

[Martha Plimpton]

Yeah, we've all. We have had the whole menu.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

We can.

[Martha Plimpton]

There's some things we haven't had. I don't know what this carousel. Okay.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

So Caricello is basically a cucumber, but it's actually a melon.

[Martha Plimpton]

Oh, we never had that.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

We've never had that. That's new.

[Martha Plimpton]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I want to try that.

[Martha Plimpton]

Yeah, let's definitely have that. Let's definitely have. Do you not like the pork chop?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I love the pork chop.

[Martha Plimpton]

Let's get the pork chop. Do you like the sea bream?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I do.

[Martha Plimpton]

Let's get the sea bream. Braised beans?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yes, please.

[Martha Plimpton]

Braised beans. And new potatoes.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

New potatoes.

[Martha Plimpton]

That's what we're going to do.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That sounds great to me.

[Martha Plimpton]

Amazing. Yeah. Thank you. Thanks a lot.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

But it's all to say, like, being a stage actor, it's a whole other. You're expected to. It's just so much harder. It's so much of the moment. You have to be present. You can't call it in. You can't phone it in.

[Martha Plimpton]

No.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

They can't delay your scenes to the next day. It's. And we're experiencing that right now. We're trying to keep the show up and running, and we're calling in people, and assistant directors are going on with iPads, and, you know, it's chaotic. But, I mean, I met you doing a play. We met, I'm gonna say, like, 15.

[Martha Plimpton]

16 years ago, I think that's right. Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Doing Shakespeare in the park in New York, doing Midsummer Night's Dream. And I. First of all, I've already told you this, but I was so excited to work with you because I was such a big fan of yours, and I'm so thrilled that a friendship developed and that we've stayed in touch because this is gorgeous.

[Martha Plimpton]

Well, first of all, I was a replacement.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I was, too.

[Martha Plimpton]

You were, too?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I didn't know you were a replacement.

[Martha Plimpton]

Yeah. And then the first day of tech, our director, Dan Sullivan, fell through the trapdoor on the stage and broke every bone in his body and had to be in the hospital for the rest of the.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, that was.

[Martha Plimpton]

It was really, really intense and scary. We've been through some real theatrical. I know, I know. I was gonna say, wait. Wait a minute. Are we jinxing on every production we're in?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. Yeah. Don't bring up together in the same room. But I have loved being on stage with you again. It's been a great reunion.

[Martha Plimpton]

Me, too.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

A few nights ago, you said, you know what? I think I'm gonna start wearing Depends during the show. And I said, what do you mean? Are you having a hard time holding your bladder? And you're like, well, we get wet at one point in the second act. And you said, after we get wet, I always feel like I'm gonna have.

[Martha Plimpton]

To really have to pee.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And I said, martha, you know what's happening right after we get wet is I'm lying next to you spooning you sleeping on stage. I was like, do you feel like you're going to need to pee in that moment? And also, if you have the. Depends on the rest of the act.

[Martha Plimpton]

I'm like, I know I'll have urine in my pants, but it depends so it doesn't leak.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I just want to know it won't leak. I know it won't leak, but it's just knowing that I'm literally holding you, spooning you from behind and that you might be peeing is. It's just something I'm on. A flag is concerning.

[Martha Plimpton]

I always feel like I'm really about to urinate. I'm about to pee my pants.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I also know because you've told me stories that you have experienced stage fright. Specifically in the last musical, you did Pal Joey, which you were brilliant in and got a Tony nomination for.

[Martha Plimpton]

Thank you.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

But you had a very difficult song called Zip. That's sort of like a whole bunch of non sequiturs, and it's a very hard song to memorize. And you told me about, like, basically kind of almost having a panic attack on stage and you hadn't done a musical since then.

[Martha Plimpton]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

How have you felt? Because this is a complicated musical. Have you had any experiences on stage feeling, like, unsafe again or.

[Martha Plimpton]

No. Since Pal Joey, I still get, you know, performance anxiety because I'M a human being and I have natural emotions.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, I do, too, but nerves.

[Martha Plimpton]

Yeah, natural nerves. But the stage fright that I experienced during that show was next level and new. And it was new. I mean, this is what's so interesting about the theater, is that it's so easy to crush the magic, crush the illusion. It's so easy to just wipe it all away with one person standing up in the audience and going, fuck you, or something, or this is stupid, or whatever. Or one actor, you know, getting ill on stage and whatever. It's so easy to do. And it's so. And during Pal Joey was the only time I was ever really tempted. Really tempted. I mean, because I would come off stage and I would be hyperventilating and I'd have to get on my knees with a paper bag and Anyway, I don't know what point I'm trying to make other than that I no longer have that. I think probably because. Because I know I can. I don't feel like maybe it was the fact that, like, the train leaves the. And there's nothing you can fucking do about it, and it's all out of your control and you don't have any fucking control or power at all. You know? And I think maybe that was part of it, the stage fright. I don't know. It's just crazy. It's a crazy thing. But somehow we survive, you know, and.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

We put it behind us and we go back out and we go back.

[Martha Plimpton]

Out and do it all over again. Because we're sick. We're sick people.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Martha and I get into the hilariously awkward texts that I see sent her mom, and we unpack Martha's complicated feelings about the Goonies, childhood fame, and everything in between. Okay, be right back. You know, dinners on Me is all about gathering around a table, good food, great company, and, you know, feeling at home. But let's be honest, it's hard to really relax when you don't feel safe in your own space. And that's why I love Simplisafe. It's the kind of peace of mind that lets you focus on what matters, whether it's catching up over pasta with a friend or just enjoying a quiet night in. I've been using Simplisafe for a while now, and it really has changed the way I think about home security. Here's the thing. Most systems kick in after a break in, but Simplisafe's new Active Guard Outdoor protection actually helps. Stop crime before it happens. Their AI powered cameras and live monitoring agents detect suspicious activity. And if someone is lurking around, they'll speak to them in real time, shine spotlights, and they can even call the police. I mean, how proactive is that? No contracts, no hidden fees, just real protection. It's no Wonder CNET named SimpliSafe the best home security system of 2025. So if you want to protect your home while you focus on what makes it feel like a home, family, friends, or the perfect roast chicken, SimpliSafe has you covered. Visit simplisafe.com Jesse to claim 50% off a new system with professional monitoring plan and get your first month free. That's SimpliSAF. Safe.com Jesse S I M P L-I S A F.com Jesse. There's no safe like simply safe. Hey, it's Jesse Tyler Ferguson. I'm here in London right now, rehearsing, exploring, dodging the rain. You know, all the classic London things. But with summer creeping in, I keep hearing about my friends who are planning holidays to Spain and Italy and Greece, anywhere with sun and aperol spritzes. And if you're lucky enough to be leaving town for a little bit this summer, or can I suggest something? Host your place on Airbnb while you're off enjoying the Mediterranean. Your flat could be hosting guests, earning you a little extra cash while you're away. And with Airbnb's co hosting feature, you don't even have to worry about managing it all. A local co host can handle the bookings, the check ins and all the little details. So while you're getting some sun, your place back home is working for you. Head to Airbnb.com host to learn more. And we're back with more dinners on me. We have an illness. I also just feel like there is a breed of actor who. I mean, there are people who grow to love it and there are people, I feel like that it's just they're born with this in their bones and I feel like you and I have that in common.

[Martha Plimpton]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Both of your parents are actors and you know Shelley Plimpton, who I. You know the story about me accidentally calling your mother, right?

[Martha Plimpton]

No. What?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, my gosh. You don't know this story? What? For some reason, I don't know. I think it's because we got iPhones around the same time when we did Midsummer Night's Dream, right? And we shared like, I think there was a bug or something.

[Martha Plimpton]

Oh, right. I remember this.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Mom's number. Shelly Plimpton's number, which is under your phone as mom, obviously.

[Martha Plimpton]

Right.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Saved in my phone as mom. So I had this number and I remember I was having a really rough, really rough go at things and I, I never do this. I never really reach out for help from my parents. But I had texted my mom a really long text message about just being in a bad place and not feeling good and like being a little depressed and feeling insecure. And I really emoted and like, let her know where I was at. I get the text back. Ding. Hi, Jessie. Hi, honey. This is Martha's mom. I was texting your mother. This I don't really know. I've met your mom a few times. I don't know your mom.

[Martha Plimpton]

Oh my God.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And she was so sweet. She's like, I hope you're okay. And like. And then I was like, do I just like copy and paste this on like the right. And then I didn't, I didn't even text my mom that. I was like, you didn't. I don't. I just sort of. I let it out like it was heard and a mom heard it. It wasn't my mom.

[Martha Plimpton]

How funny.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It's not funny.

[Martha Plimpton]

Yeah, well, I'm glad she didn't go, who the fuck is this?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, right. Wrong number. But I mean, you, you know, you were born into like with showbiz in your bones and I mean, I knew you from being a fan of your work in early films, Parenthood and Goonies.

[Martha Plimpton]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And I was just sort of, I think for me, I was just sort of taken by how. I don't know. When you think of child actors and you think of kids who have gotten work at a very early age, you think of people like going off the rails and certainly some of them do, but you seem to so self assured, so independently minded and it felt very authentic to who I kind of assumed you were like looking at, like just being a fan of yours from afar. But it all really came into focus when I sort of, you know, met your mom and saw where you live and saw your childhood bedroom and like met your friends and just kind of experienced. We got a small glimpse of, to like who you were as a, you know, as a kid growing up in New York. I know you also went to a performing arts school. Right, right. Like, what was New York for you as a kid? And as like that being your, your playground and your, your backyard.

[Martha Plimpton]

It was great. I loved it. And I went to this weird school where every one of the kids had a job. It was Called professional children's School. Like in the. In the creative arts.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Right.

[Martha Plimpton]

Or they were athletes.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, okay. So were you just in school with, like, all of the stars of, like, the 80s?

[Martha Plimpton]

Midori and, you know, the violinist Midori. My school.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Wow.

[Martha Plimpton]

The Cosby kids were in my school.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Interesting.

[Martha Plimpton]

You know, like, Malcolm, Jamal Warner and those kids. Pam Adlon went.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Pam Adlon. That's how you know Pam.

[Martha Plimpton]

Yeah. And then, like, athletes, you know, kids who were, like, on the circuit, like, working towards being pro tennis players. I mean, ballet dancers.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Where was the school in New York?

[Martha Plimpton]

On 60th street, right across the street from Fordham.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, okay.

[Martha Plimpton]

And it wasn't that big a school. It was like, at the most, it had, like 250 students in it.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It's kind of amazing that you had this experience where, you know, I mean, I'm sending my kids to school, and one of the reasons I want them to experience that is because I want them to be socialized and be around other kids. It's great that you got that.

[Martha Plimpton]

Yeah. I mean, it was also weird. A lot of kids actually did do really well, went on to college and, you know, continued their education. I just sort of considered, like, when I wasn't on set or working.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Uhhuh.

[Martha Plimpton]

Just being in school to me was like, well, what, I'm on vacation now? Why do I need to do homework? You know what I mean? And I didn't even get a diploma. I mean, I still had, like, a math and a gym credit missing.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Walter, you have got to chill.

[Martha Plimpton]

Chill.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It's part of the podcast. It is what it is. It is what it is.

[Martha Plimpton]

But so they wanted me to come back for the. The next year. They wanted me to leave me behind, basically.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Martha Plimpton]

And so I said, well, fuck it. I guess I just won't have a diploma.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. The other day I was talking about riding the trains were all fucked up here in London, which happens frequently. Which happens frequently. I guess I haven't taken a lot. Cause in the area I'm staying in, there's not a good. There's not a good tube.

[Martha Plimpton]

Right.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And so I've been taking lime bikes. You know, the Uber bikes, the.

[Martha Plimpton]

I wish I could ride those.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Well, and this is what you say. You say, I remember you said, I don't ride bikes. I had to learn for a film, which obviously was Goonies. No, it wasn't.

[Martha Plimpton]

No, it was before that.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, I thought I remember. Didn't you all, like, ride bikes and Goonies?

[Martha Plimpton]

No, the boys did. Oh, the girls gotta ride from Troy in his Convertible.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I thought it was.

[Martha Plimpton]

Obviously you don't know this film very well.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Honey, please. It's been a while since I've seen it, but it is one of my all time favorites and I, I know. Here we go.

[Martha Plimpton]

Here we go.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Here we, here we go, Here we go. You're, and I know you accept it and I know that you were like, I, I, you're, you have, you're part of cinema history with that film. It is iconic, it is, it is a cult classic. And I, I'm sure you, you hear this from many people because I know you still, you know, meet with fans and. Yeah, but the importance of that, that movie and like, I just, I don't know, what is your relationship with it now? You know, it's what, 30, 40, 40 years this year?

[Martha Plimpton]

You know, sometimes it upsets me that it's gonna be the first thing listed in my obituary. You know what I mean? I mean, sometimes that can get me down a little bit because obviously, you know, when you're part of something like that at such a young age, right, you know, you grow up and you've moved on and you're, you know, you're, you're doing other things and you're all about doing other things. And you know, those early experiences, they don't stack up as much, you know, as an adult. So that's kind of how I feel about it. But I have to respect the place that it has in people's minds and hearts and childhoods. You know, you can't, you gotta respect something like that. And it's just a testament to, you know, what incredible filmmakers Richard Donner and Steven Spielberg are. In Richard's case was, I mean, the film was not a success when it first came out. It was not a huge hit. It was like a big thing for a weekend and then it went away. But it happened to come out right around the same time as rental videos, as the VHS and the sort of widespread popularity of cable.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, I might have single handedly made it, chopped the charts.

[Martha Plimpton]

So. Yeah, I mean, that's, I just think.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You were 14 when you did it.

[Martha Plimpton]

I was 13.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

13.

[Martha Plimpton]

And I think I turned 14.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Those years are so fuzzy to me. I can't really tell you too much about what happened to me when I was 13 and 14. Yeah. Does being a part of something like that bring in like a moment of clarity in your past? Like, is it like a. Yeah, I.

[Martha Plimpton]

Mean, I guess it contextualizes my youth a little bit. You know, in a strange way, it's like my Body of Work sort of is a timeline for me, for my life and my development as a person, which is a weird thing, I suppose. I mean, I remember certain things, but I don't remember, like things that most people remember about their lives. Like, you know what I mean? It just kind of. It's funny. Like I'm not great at anecdotes, you know, about my life. Yeah, I think my memoir would be really boring, you know what I mean? But I remember pretty much every episode of Raising Hope. Yeah, of course, we only did it for four years, but yeah, still.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Martha opens up about going broke right before Raising Hope. And she tells me about her first love, River Phoenix. Okay, be right back. You know, back when Modern Family ended, I was suddenly managing my own projects. One of those things I was also trying to manage was my calendar. So I will double book something so fast, don't even test me. There are times when I actually liter had recordings for this podcast and then I would like double book a lunch with someone on the other side of town or like forget to pick up my kids. I didn't forget. I just, you know, put it in my calendar that was supposed to pick up the kids. They got picked up. Don't worry. Let me tell you, finding the right people to help you out is not easy. And finding the right people fast, definitely not easy. That's why I had wished I had used INDEED sooner. When it comes to hiring people to help you, Indeed is all you need. Stop struggling to get your job post seen indeed's sponsors sponsored jobs help you stand out and hire fast. Your post jumps right to the top for relevant candidates, which means less waiting and more doing. In fact, sponsored jobs on Indeed get 45% more applications than non sponsored jobs, according to Indeed data. And there's no monthly subscriptions, no long term contracts, just pay for results. One of the things I love about Indeed is how fast it makes the whole process. While I've been Talking to you, 23 hires were made on Indeed. Seriously, there's no need to wait. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed. Listeners of Dinners on Me will get a $75 sponsored job credit to give your post more visibility@ Indeed.com DinnersonMe. That's Indeed.com DinnersonMe. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is all you need.

[C]

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[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And we're back with more dinners on me. I remember right before you got that is sort of like when we had become friends. And you know, you've also been really honest about this. I mean, you talk about this in interviews, but like, you know, you were right before raising hope. I mean, you were like, I need a, I need a job. Like, I will do babysitting if I need to do it. Like, I need to make money.

[Martha Plimpton]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And I think it's also something that, it's something that people forget. Like they assume, okay, someone's been working. Like you have been working since you were 12 years old. You have your, the Carradine legacy. Legacy is part of your history. You know, you have, you, they just assume that you have, you know, tons of money saved up and, you know, but like it's these things go away. You don't always get paid as much as people think you get paid. That's right. And you know, I'm, you know, when we met, we were doing Shakespeare in the park, which is a non profit, and we were making a dollar and.

[Martha Plimpton]

Yeah. And I had been working pretty steadily in the theater for 10 years. Making a dollar.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Martha Plimpton]

And working on Broadway for nonprofit theaters.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yes.

[Martha Plimpton]

Also making a dollar.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Martha Plimpton]

While the theaters were charging.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

While you're being nominated for.

[Martha Plimpton]

Yeah, while I'm. Yeah, I was nominated three times in a row.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Martha Plimpton]

And literally the next day after the Tonys, and I had to, like, pay a stylist and find a dress and, you know, being nominated. Expensive.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Martha Plimpton]

It costs a lot of money to get nominated. And I'm not just saying to pay for the campaign. So the next day, after the third time in a row that I lost, which is whatever. Neither here nor there, but I was like, really? People? But anyway, my accountant and I talked. He was like, you. You. You have $300. You need to. Something needs to happen. And I remember putting on Facebook, I'll babysit. I'll do anything. And I have. At the time, I was friends with this woman, and she almost responded too quickly and too gleefully. I'd love to hire you if you could be in Brooklyn at 6am on Thursday morning.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I was like, there's something off about this.

[Martha Plimpton]

Sounds good. See you there.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Did you.

[Martha Plimpton]

I did.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You did.

[Martha Plimpton]

And literally that week, I found out that I had got Raising Hope.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I didn't realize that was gone kind of right up to the edge for you. And that show was. I mean, obviously, it changed my life completely. It changed your life. But also. Well, it was so great. You were nominated for an Emmy for it. I remember one of my favorite Emmy awards. We were nominated this year.

[Martha Plimpton]

That's right.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And one of the most iconic things ever happened.

[Martha Plimpton]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And you can watch it on YouTube. Sofia Vergara was actually presenting Best Supporting Actress in a comedy with Rob Lowe. No. Best Actress in a comedy.

[Martha Plimpton]

Yes.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Not supporting actress. Actress. Actress in a Comedy with Rob Lowe. And they start announcing the nominees, and it was like, amy, Amy Poehler for Parks and Recreation. And everyone claps. You know, the camera goes to Amy Poehler. And then Amy stands up and walks up on stage, and we're like, oh, my God, she's doing a bit like she thought she won or something. Like, this is weird. But it was also funny because it's Amy Poehler and you felt safe.

[Martha Plimpton]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Tina Fey for 30 Rock. Right. Tina Fey stands up, goes off on stage. It continues on with Martha Plimpton for raising hope, Melissa McCarthy for Mike and Molly, Edie Falco for Nursing Nurse Jackie. Laura Linney. Laura Linney for the C word.

[Martha Plimpton]

Right.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

So they're all standing up there.

[Martha Plimpton]

Right.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Everyone's losing their minds because. I don't know, it sort of felt to me like it was such a celebration of these Incredible people who had achieved so much just by being nominated. You know, they always say it's, it's an honor to be nominated. And that sort of feels like a line. But in that moment I was like, it's a fucking honor. And like you're standing up with all these people who turn in these incredible performances. And then Melissa was named best actress, which I think was maybe a surprise. I don't know if people.

[Martha Plimpton]

It was a total surprise.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And the camera zoomed in like Miss America style on her and she was given a sash and a tiara. And a tiara and a giant bouquet.

[Martha Plimpton]

Of roses, just like in a pageant.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And a pageant. And it was just such. And you all were up there together celebrating her and hugging her. It was no flash to see someone's disappointment. It was such a celebration. Okay, so these are my questions about this moment. Talk to me about what happened, how that was organized beforehand, and talk about how it felt to be a part of that iconic moment of television.

[Martha Plimpton]

So that came about when I went to a dinner with Amy Poehler and Tina Fey and Sarah Thier.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Uh huh.

[Martha Plimpton]

And I don't, I think maybe it was totally Amy's idea, I don't remember, but it came out of a conversation.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Uh huh.

[Martha Plimpton]

Like you were saying. And you know, the camera's on you and it's a horse race, it's like a pageant and you know, and oh, I wonder if they would do that and who's presenting. And oh, I bet you Sophia and Rob would love to do that. And we should see if the Emmys will, if the producers will provide the roses and a tiara and you know, and that's how it came about. And we just started texting each other and I remember Edie was too nervous to go first even though she's first alphabetically.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Uh huh.

[Martha Plimpton]

But she was too nervous. She was like, I'm too nervous to be the first one. I don't want to be the first one doing this. So Amy said, well, I'll do it.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Of course she was. Yeah.

[Martha Plimpton]

So then, so. And it was perfect because she set the tone perfectly.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And you also feel safe with her doing it. Yeah, totally safe. It might have been weird if Edie Falco got up and stood there.

[Martha Plimpton]

Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And people would have been like, what are. Yeah, they wouldn't have understood. Yeah, but it was perfect that Amy went up first because she's so fucking funny and smart and brilliant and amazing. But yeah, it was pretty exciting. And it's sort of become one of those amazing, iconic Emmys moments that's, like, replayed. Like, every year during the Emmys, someone else posts that, you know, and it's great.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I loved it. I mean, being in that room, it felt so. I mean, the whole audience stood.

[Martha Plimpton]

Yeah, the whole audience was really. It was great.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

We were so grateful that someone's doing something unique and fun, but also, it just felt like a breath of fresh air. And it felt like exactly what we all want to be feeling, but no one. It felt like, okay, you actually.

[Martha Plimpton]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Put up what we are feeling in our hearts. Like, you presented it to us, and it gave us, the whole audience, an opportunity to cheer for you, and it just felt very unifying.

[Martha Plimpton]

Yeah. It was really fun to be a part of it, and really. Because at first glance, it might be like, well, we're making fun of the whole horse race or the whole pageant of it, but it's really. It did. It came off sort of, like, wholesome and. And supportive and really great. Cause, you know, we are in this weird business. Like, we are in a little bit of a club and a little bit of a community, and people would like to, you know, have us separated or sorted out in certain ways, and we're supposed to feel sort of weird about that. But I think we should feel good about it, right? I think we should feel like we are kind of in a community. We are kind of the brothers and sisters in this bizarro, crazy, you know, world where sometimes it's really brilliant and fun and incredible and we're so fucking lucky.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. Speaking of, like, seeing people out, I remember one of the last times I came to London. We met up for coffee, and Kate Winslet was sitting at the bar, and you're like, oh, there's Kate Winslet. And I was like, oh, I'm such a fan of hers. And, like, we both, like, didn't say anything.

[Martha Plimpton]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

But, like. Like, in a moment like that, like, it would maybe. It would have been nice for us.

[Martha Plimpton]

It would have been nice to say.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

We love your work.

[Martha Plimpton]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And then you went on to work with her just recently and.

[Martha Plimpton]

Regime.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Regime. Yeah. And you've done so much. So just to back up a little bit, you basically. You live out here in London most of the time, really? About half the year, I think.

[Martha Plimpton]

Yeah. About that.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

No, I know you've always loved London, but, you know, I always felt to be like a tried and true New Yorker. What was sort of the impetus for you to move out here?

[Martha Plimpton]

Well, I was doing this play. I had done a play here before, and I Just loved being here. I loved the camaraderie of the actors here, you know, the pub life and hanging out after the show and meeting other actors, and I just really loved it. And so when I came back, I was doing Sweat at the Donmar and I made great, great friends, particularly women friends, I mean, who've been in my life ever since. And then we moved from the Donmar to the West End for a limited run. It was a big hit, the show, and I just thought, I just want to live here. I prefer this way of living. I prefer this way of working. I prefer this atmosphere. I prefer the attitude. I prefer the work ethic. And I, you know, I had done, you know, another show on Broadway prior to Sweat, and it wasn't a great experience for me. I mean, it was great with working with the actors and everything, but I just found it to be alienating and to be about something else. And I wanted to be where you could do a play just because you liked the play, not because you wanted to win a Tony or be famous or, you know, sell out tickets or have famous people see you backstage. You know what I mean? Because you like the play and you like the people you're working with.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Martha Plimpton]

Thank you so much.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

We've also got our two desires down here.

[Martha Plimpton]

Holy hell. All right. Oh, they've got an, ooh, Earl Grey soft serve.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

What's the other one?

[Martha Plimpton]

Castardos.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

What's that? A cristado is a shot of espresso mixed with vanilla custard. It's like our signature.

[Martha Plimpton]

That's what I want.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, I want that too.

[Martha Plimpton]

Yeah, that's gonna be perfect.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I mean, I. I have to say, I mean, I've never worked here. I've come to London many times. This is my first time working here. First time being here. I will have been.

[Martha Plimpton]

How are you finding it?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I. I love it. I do love it. I can. I could totally see. I've told Justin several times, walking down really charming streets, he's like, what about that house? Do you want to live in that one? Yeah, you know.

[Martha Plimpton]

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, my favorite thing to do is ride the tube and look at real estate porn.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, look at that. Thank you.

[Martha Plimpton]

Cheers, Jazzy.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Cheers. This is better than wine. Oh, that is incredible.

[Martha Plimpton]

Oh, that is so good. Oh, my gosh. Now that I know this exists, I am going to seriously come up here and get a castardo to go every day.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, it's great.

[Martha Plimpton]

Oh, it's so good.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I also find that, you know, after you moved out here, there was a. I don't want to say tonal shift, but there was a difference in the type of things you were being cast in. That was really exciting.

[Martha Plimpton]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Generation. And then obviously Regime with Kate Winslet and then Prime Target and then Task.

[Martha Plimpton]

Which is coming out in September, which is. I actually. I saw a little bit of it the other day when I was doing adr, and it looks so good.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

What is Task?

[Martha Plimpton]

Task is a show by Brad Inglesby, actually, who did Mayor of Easttown with Kate.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, wow.

[Martha Plimpton]

So this is his second show. And it also takes place in, you know, in Philly, sort of suburbs of Philly, you know, with Mark Ruffalo.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Love him.

[Martha Plimpton]

Who's just awesome. Just a great guy, awesome actor, amazing person. But, yeah, and I'm. I play like his boss at the FBI. It's pretty hilarious, but it looks really good. I'm really excited about it.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Martha Plimpton]

But, yeah, I don't know why I just plugged my show, but.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Have you. No, you. That's why. That's why you're gonna. Why would you do a podcast? You're not plugging something.

[Martha Plimpton]

Oh, oh, it's gonna be on hbo.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Hbo? Yeah. You're doing all this prestige television now. When did that happen?

[Martha Plimpton]

Well, it's. It's funny because I think in London, first of all, they're not afraid of women. Middle aged women, older women, mature women. They're not afraid of them here. And they get to work here in all kinds of things. On tv, in movies, in plays. You know what I mean? Like, older women who look like older women, you know, who have, like, menopause bellies and, you know, wrinkles on their face, get to actually, you know, they respect them here. Anyway, what was I talking about?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

No, I was.

[Martha Plimpton]

Oh, yeah. The prestige Chibi stuff. So when I came to London, I did start, like, I got to work on the man who Fell to Earth show. I did a little tiny role on that. And it was like, people were like, happy to have me. And I was like, well, I'm really happy to be had. This is really great. And they were like, no, but we're really. Thank you so much for being. Thank you so much. It was just a difference in perception and the level of just sort of just regard for my work that I did not realize was existed. Because Hollywood just doesn't operate the same way for women. It just doesn't. Unless you're a massive, beautiful movie star who's, like, winning Oscars for being beautiful and massive. Yeah, you're interchangeable. And Here, people aren't interchangeable in the same way. Does that make any sense?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it does. Okay. Can I ask a little bit about River Phoenix?

[Martha Plimpton]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

So I should have asked this before, and then I forgot when we were talking about, like, just, you know, your youth. But you were very good friends with. With River Phoenix. You dated him for a little while. You did two incredible films with him. I know that you guys remained friends after you broke up, but just, I mean, in that moment of being so young, and you both were like this it couple. I mean, from what I remember, what did it feel like? Cause it's one thing to be an actor working at that time, and it's another thing to be, you know, exposed as a person in a relationship. And, like, all the stuff that's private is, like, suddenly public. And at that age, it feels very. I don't know, it's exposing.

[Martha Plimpton]

Well, I mean, river was certainly more famous than I ever was. I mean, he got an Oscar nomination, obviously, but I think we were both really good at knowing that we didn't really want that attention anyway. And so we really weren't exposed really that much in that way. And neither of us was terribly comfortable with that sort of thing. And it was before we were even, like, understood really, like what that meant, you know, I think it got harder as we got older and river became more famous. It got harder for him, I think. Well, I know it was harder for him. And he was not as equipped, I think, as maybe some other people might be to handle that stuff because he was a very at heart, very innocent and like a driven by love human being. So the contradictions of Hollywood and show business were much more difficult for him.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Martha Plimpton]

And it was easier for me because I grew up in New York and I was already a cynic by the time I was 13. You know, at 12 years old, when I graduated from middle school, my teacher wrote in my yearbook, you know, congratulations. Try not to be too cynical. When I was 12.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Martha Plimpton]

You know what I mean? So I was more equipped, I think, even though I didn't need to be. And so that was tough. And, you know, when we did break up, eventually, we were together for about four years. And then when we did break up, we did remain friends, and we were each other's first love. That relationship never really goes away. You can't ever let something like that go. It's just too important and too, like, altering. I mean, it's part of. It's made you who you are, you know, especially in Those really formative years. I mean, it's a huge part of who I am. So. Yeah, so. And of course we stayed friends, but I think fame was really hard on River. I think he really just didn't know what to do with all of that kind. And he wanted to do good, but it was really. It's just the contradictions of it were too difficult.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it seems like it was a very important friendship, too.

[Martha Plimpton]

Oh, my God. Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

For both of you. You know, if you are uncomfortable with that, to have someone who understands, even if you don't understand exactly what he's going through, to be a part of that world and be a safe space, you know, it seems like he was really lucky to have you.

[Martha Plimpton]

Well, I think he was lucky to have me and his family, his brothers and sisters. I think, you know, his personality or his affliction, his illness was incredibly difficult for him to manage on his own. And he never really got the help that I think he would have done amazingly well with if he had gotten that help. I think he would have been an incredible advocate for sobriety and for people struggling with addiction. And unfortunately, it just. It got him before he had a chance to do that. But. But yeah, I mean, I miss him every single day.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Martha Plimpton]

Every single day.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. It's really lovely to hear you talk about him. I'm sorry I made you.

[Martha Plimpton]

No, no, no, it's okay.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Well, we have a rehearsal to get down. We have warm up soon.

[Martha Plimpton]

We have warm up soon.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Walter.

[Martha Plimpton]

I'm gonna meditate.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You're gonna meditate? Walter is going to sleep.

[Martha Plimpton]

Walter's gonna sleep. He'll probably eat a little something. He'll probably eat a little something. A cute little face.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You go ahead and head down. I'm gonna stay up here. Cause dinner's on me. I'm gonna pay the bill.

[Martha Plimpton]

Aw, thanks.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, yeah.

[Martha Plimpton]

That's the name of the podcast.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That's the name of the podcast. Oh, my God. Thanks for doing this. This episode of Dinners on Me was recorded at Forza Wine at the National Theatre in London's South Bank. Next week on Dinner's on Me. You know him from True Blood, Big Little Lies, and more recently, as a star of the new Apple show, Murderbot. It's Alexander Skarsgrd. He'll get into teaming up with a real life gay biker gang for an upcoming film chemistry with Nicole Kidman, and what it's like to play an awkward, emotionally complex robot. And if you don't want to wait until next week to listen, you can download that episode right now by subscribing to Dinners On Me. Plus, as a subscriber, not only do you get access to new episodes one week early, you'll also be able to listen completely ad free. Just click Try free at the top of the Dinners on Me show page on Apple Podcasts to start your free trial today. Dinners on Me is a production of Sony Music Entertainment and a kid named Beckett Productions. It's hosted by me, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. It's executive produced by me and Jonathan Alex Hirsch. Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Our producer in the UK is Grace Laker. Our associate producer is Alyssa Midcalf. Sam Baer engineered this episode, Hansdale. She composed our theme music. Our head of Production is Sammy Allison. Special thanks to Tameka Balance Kalasny and Justin Makita. I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Join me next week.