Side Dish: More with Dan Bucatinsky

Summary

Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson

Side Dish: More with Dan Bucatinsky

Released: March 12, 2026
Recorded At: Louise’s Tattoria, Larchmont Village, Los Angeles

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Episode Overview

In this "side dish" episode, Jesse Tyler Ferguson welcomes his friend and Emmy-winning actor Dan Bucatinsky for a lively, candid meal. The conversation explores the evolution of playing gay characters on television, the societal significance of such roles, personal journeys of coming out in Hollywood, and the challenges and rewards of their respective creative paths. Dan also offers rich behind-the-scenes insights into his long-standing collaboration with Lisa Kudrow, sharing stories from making shows like "The Comeback" and "Web Therapy." The tone is warm, insightful, and often humorous, giving listeners a sense of sitting in on a meaningful lunch among friends.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Impact of Playing Gay Characters on TV

• Transition in TV Representation:
  • Dan Bucatinsky contextualizes Modern Family within TV history, noting its cultural importance in following trailblazers like Will & Grace.
    • Quote:

      “Modern Family was so groundbreaking and so great and such a moment in history... [it] opened the world up to a possibility that, you know, people in middle America…were suddenly able to say that they knew what a gay person looked like. And then a decade later we get to see a family integrated with that. It's just amazing.” — Dan Bucatinsky (04:16)

• Responsibility and Representation:
  • Jesse Tyler Ferguson (and guest Michael) reflect on the responsibility of portraying gay parents, especially during the push for marriage equality.
    • Quote:

      “I took the opportunity very seriously… showing a flawed human being that was trying to figure out parenthood…we were at that time living in a country that was fighting toward something that we now consider to be law of the land for a while: marriage equality.” — Michael (05:20-05:38)

• Changing Society Through Art:
  • Dan describes his college thesis about the interplay between TV and societal norms, underscoring TV’s power to normalize and generate acceptance, particularly for LGBTQ+ families.
    • Quote:

      “Is it that the TV producers are trying to mirror reality or are our portrayals helping to change? ... The role that you played as a couple…was not an unbelievable force in helping our country…to greater acceptance.” — Dan Bucatinsky (06:27-07:39)

• Comment on Dysfunctional TV Marriages:
  • Dan humorously contrasts his own TV marriage (Scandal) to the more idealized Modern Family.
    • Quote:

      “People loved Cyrus and James. I'm like, what do you love about us? It's the most dysfunctional marriage on the planet… but anybody who was married and had a baby was like, they're the touchstones of the show.” — Dan Bucatinsky (10:16-10:54)

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2. Coming Out, the Impact of the AIDS Crisis, and Evolving Attitudes in Hollywood

• Navigating Hollywood in the Wake of Crisis:
  • Dan shares personal stories from moving to LA in the early ‘90s, marked by the lingering shadow of the AIDS crisis and widespread stigma.
    • Quote:

      “I moved to LA in '91. The AIDS crisis was barely in the rearview mirror...all the people…I was waiting tables with in New York were positive and dropping like flies.” — Dan Bucatinsky (14:27)

• Parental Fears and Societal Judgment:
  • Michael recounts family fears during his coming out, reflecting on generational trauma.
    • Quote:

      “They would see things about people dying of AIDS on television, and they would start crying because they would think that that's exactly where I was heading.” — Michael (15:10-15:50)

• Desire for Normalcy & Progress:
  • Dan speaks about striving for a “heteronormative” life—marriage, kids, career—partly as a response to stereotypes about what was possible for gay men.
    • Quote:

      “I think a big part of my desire to be kind of heteronormative…was to push back against any belief that you can't have everything and still be a gay person.” — Dan Bucatinsky (16:10-16:56)

  • A striking story about witnessing a gay wedding and the profound shift in visibility in the late '90s.
    • Quote:

      “I was literally watching two men do what I thought was the impossible…25 years later...so much progress has been made, and now I'm, like, too old to enjoy it.” — Dan Bucatinsky (17:09 & 18:22)

• The Power of the Closet & Privacy:
  • Dan admits, even after writing/acting in an autobiographical gay romance (All Over the Guy), he felt compelled to conceal his sexuality from the press.
    • Quote:

      “The writer is out, but the actor isn't out…I'm a college educated individual. Like, when I'm saying it now, I'm like, what kind of dumbass did I actually think I could get away with...?” — Dan Bucatinsky (20:09)

  • Discussion on how social media has shifted the expectation of public figures to share their private lives, for better and worse.
    • Quote:

      “Social media…you have a window into the real lives of any celebrity that wants to tell you about it. And if they don't, they don't...to hang on to your privacy becomes...either create mystery and more intrigue or…a complete...lack of interest.” — Dan Bucatinsky (21:08)

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3. Creative Collaboration with Lisa Kudrow & Producing for TV

• Developing Shows Post-Friends:
  • Dan discusses the flurry of creative activity with Lisa Kudrow after Friends, including a series of pilots, The Comeback, and the evolution of genre-bending TV concepts.
    • Production Insight:

      “We made a pilot in 2005...there were so many things going on in 2005, our heads almost exploded…” — Dan Bucatinsky (23:36-24:31)

  • Lisa’s unique approach:
    • Quote:

      “Lisa is…one of the smartest humans, most talented, intuitive, insightful, like crazy…her ability to suss out what would be an interesting motivation for a character or where the drive of the story was…she’s a genius.” — Dan Bucatinsky (25:02)

• Collaborative Dynamics:
  • Dan describes their partnership as “yin-yang,” with Lisa reigning in his sprawling creativity and Dan nudging her out of comfort zones.
• Producing a Syndicated Daytime Game Show:
  • Brief mention of the success of 25 Words or Less.
    • Quote:

      “We’ve made over 1,200 episodes.” — Dan Bucatinsky (26:38)

• Origin Story of Web Therapy:
  • “Web Therapy” began as a web series before selling to Showtime, described as innovatively exploiting new media platforms and owning creative rights.
    • Quote:

      “We got to keep, we got to own the content, which was amazing...they financed us making little webisodes. We agreed to post them on L Studio and had a contract…then our agent said, if you strung a bunch of them together, you can have a 30 minute half hour and we could license this to another platform.” — Dan Bucatinsky (27:30-28:50)

  • The labor of improvising episodes, getting celebrity guests, and turning improv into a cohesive, marketable product.
    • Quote:

      “In an afternoon, we shot all your scenes in four hours. We did the same thing with Meryl Streep and Meg Ryan and Conan O'Brien and Steve Carell...we’re very proud. We did 44 half hour episodes.” — Dan Bucatinsky (29:55-30:12)

  • Constraints as Creative Challenges:
    • Every scene had to be captured via webcam, reflecting the titular character’s style of remote therapy.
    • On-brand sponsorship and “product placement” challenges—Lisa’s character doing therapy sessions in a car to satisfy Lexus backers, and similar awkward brand integrations.
      • Quote:

        “We built a storyline where Alan Cumming had to make a mocktail with Crystal Light and on camera, and we’re like, all right, now it’s the tail wag and the dog, right?” — Dan Bucatinsky (32:43)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Cultural Change (06:27):

  “Is it that the TV producers are trying to mirror reality or are our portrayals helping to change?...It was a very difficult thing to prove because it’s happening simultaneously.”

• On Dysfunctional TV Love (10:16):

  “People loved Cyrus and James. I’m like, what do you love about us? It’s the most dysfunctional marriage on the planet… but anybody who was married and had a baby was like, they’re the touchstones of the show.”

• On Progress and Missed Opportunities (18:22):

  “Now I’m like, too old to enjoy it.”

• On Creative Ownership (28:50):

  “…that as a model for what the future had in store for itself was kind of ahead of its time.”

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Cultural Impact of Gay Characters / TV’s Influence:
  04:16 – 10:54
• AIDS Crisis, Coming Out, and Generational Shifts:
  14:27 – 19:13
• On Remaining Closeted as a Public Figure:
  20:09 – 21:38
• Creative Collaboration with Lisa Kudrow, Producing Post-Friends:
  23:36 – 26:42
• Behind-the-Scenes of Web Therapy & Product Placement Stories:
  27:30 – 33:49

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Tone

The conversation is open-hearted, witty, at times deeply vulnerable, and always colored by the chemistry of old friends sharing war stories and lessons learned over pasta in Los Angeles. Jesse and Dan’s reflections on the intersection of personal lives and public personas in Hollywood are especially resonant, making this side dish episode a delightful, illuminating listen for anyone interested in representation, creative risk-taking, and the personal realities behind TV storytelling.

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[End of Summary]

Transcript

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

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[Dan Bucatinsky]

I mean, Modern Family was so groundbreaking and so great and such a moment in history to you. Think about how Will and Grace changed the portrayal of the gay character on television. And it opened the world up to a possibility that, you know, people in middle America who claim to, who didn't realize that their wives, who didn't realize that their husbands are in the closet, were suddenly able to, you know, say that they knew what a gay person looked like. And then a decade later we get to see a family integrated with that. It's just amazing.

[Michael]

I mean, how did you feel about playing a gay dad on tv? I mean, I took it, I took the opportunity very seriously. I obviously was a comedy. So like, you know, I mean, I mean that in just the way that I felt a responsibility in that Role of, like, playing this gay character on television. And I wanted to. I was excited by the opportunity of showing a flawed human being that was trying to figure out parenthood.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

Yeah.

[Michael]

And, you know, I also was very cognizant of the fact that we were at that time living in a country that was fighting toward something that we now consider to be law of the land for a while.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

Yeah.

[Michael]

Marriage equality.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

Yeah.

[Michael]

And, you know, that was. But we were still in the trenches fighting for that. I thought, this is going to be a great cultural touchstone for that. So I felt like all that responsibility and

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I took it very seriously.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

I'm so glad, because, by the way, there's no way you can quantify how each cultural moment plays a role in the bigger picture, like getting America on board with marriage equality at the time that it happened, which didn't happen until 2015. But you have to credit. You have to credit those that came before it and those who were portraying characters. I mean, by sheer chance, I wrote my college thesis on the portrayal of the American family on situation comedies.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Really?

[Dan Bucatinsky]

I was fascinated by whether or not the portrayal of the family at a particular time in history is because of the changes in society or are, in fact enacting the changes in society. It was like, which one of these is influencing more? Is it that the TV producers are trying to mirror reality or are our portrayals helping to change? And it was a very difficult thing to prove because it's happening simultaneously. There's no question that the role that you played, that you both played as playing a couple, a normalized couple of gay men in a family who have a baby and who are navigating their marriage and love life and the family and judgment and the closet and parenthood, all while making us laugh, was not an unbelievable force in helping our country. Bit by bit, piece by piece, and subliminally, like a Trojan horse, to greater acceptance.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

So you were right to take that on. But you did it so gracefully and with laughs. I. Look, I was playing a guy who was going to ultimately get murdered by his husband. So in a. In a show. In a show.

[Michael]

So relatable.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

So relatable. 100%.

[Michael]

If you wanted to kill Don, you

[Dan Bucatinsky]

know, today, at what time, I didn't really think about. I mean, I did. I did. I was aware of. To me, what was the most eye opening about being on a show like Scandal? Is that the community that. I mean, a lot of people were watching that show, but there was a demographic of Americans, the bipoc community. If people still Say that the people of color, Latinos and brown people from every background, really loved watching Kerry Washington in that kind of position and playing with the government and making it seem outrageous at a time when, I mean, we can never make that show now because we couldn't possibly get away with it because it's too outrageous in real life.

[Michael]

That's right.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

The notion of a president smothering a Supreme court judge with a pillow in a hospital room happened on scandal. And you 100% could believe that happening in real life, but at the time, it was, it was gasp worthy television. And my character got to play this little piece of normal, driven, responsible, lovely. I just want to be a dad. Don't get in my way. And what was so satisfying is that I, I think I was most related to by other black women, other women who were moms. I have never in my life experienced that kind of outpouring of love from a community I thought I had nothing in common with. And they saw me holding that, my black daughter and in that, in that nursery and fighting for her life and fighting to be her dad in a way that they related to. And people loved James for that reason. It was, it was wild. To this day, it's, it's a, it's a big part of the audience group now. There's obviously, it's much wider than that. Yeah. But I felt a responsibility to like, oh, this, this is what we all have in common. That's really what it was about. It wasn't about, like, you know, gays are people too. It was more like, you know, all

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

of us would do beyond that.

[Michael]

It's more the human connection. Right.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

The fierce loyalty to, to being our. To being parents. Right. And then to be in this crazy, ridiculous marriage. It was, it was, people like, loved Cyrus and James. I'm like, what do you love about us? It's the most dysfunctional marriage on the planet. He's a lunatic. I'm with a psycho who's tried to kill me now twice, claims to love me. People are like, you guys are so sweet together. I'm like, what are you seeing? People. Because the show was so crazy and about torture that anybody who was married and had a baby was like, they're the touchstones of the show. Right, right, right, right. Like, ok, don't try this at home

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Dan reflects on his past as an in the closet actor and coming to terms with being out in Hollywood. Okay. Be right back. Okay. Be honest. You know, that thing you've been saying you're going to do for years, I'm going to start therapy. I'm going to look into therapy. I'm going to emotionally process that later. Yeah, yeah, same. For the longest time I kept putting it off because every time I googled therapist near me, I'd end up 40 tabs deep. Comparing credentials like I'm buying a refrigerator and somehow more anxious than when I started. That's why I love Grow therapy. They make finding a therapist feel human and doable. Whether it's your first time in therapy or your 50th. Grow makes it easier to find someone who fits you. They connect you with thousands of licensed therapists across the US offering virtual and in person sessions, including nights and weekends. You can search by what really matters to you, insurance, specialty, availability, and get started in as little as two days. And if something comes up, you can Cancel up to 24 hours in advance at no cost, no subscriptions, no long term commitments. You just pay per session therapy. That fits real life. And honestly, I'm such a big believer in therapy. It has helped me become a better partner, a better father, a better friend, and on, well, on most days, a calmer human being. Whatever challenges you're facing, Grow Therapy is here to help. Grow accepts over 100 insurance plans, including Medicaid in some states. Sessions average about $21 with insurance and pay as little as $0. Visit growththerapy.comdom to get started. That's growththerapy.comdom availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan. So on a recent episode we had Ted Danson on and if you know Ted, you know he's very passionate about protecting the oceans and buying sustainable wild caught seafood. And after talking to him, it, it really made me think, am I actually being intentional about this myself or just hoping for the best at the grocery store? That's one of the reasons I Love Wild Alaskan company. I cannot recommend this company enough. First, it's 100% wild caught, never farmed, so no antibiotics, no GMOs, no additives. Second, their fish is frozen right off the boat, which helps lock in flavor and texture. And third, it's all sustainably sourced from Alaska, supporting responsible fishing practices. Lately, I've been really into their Pacific halibut. It's firm, meaty, great for searing, and the Pacific rockfish, which has this amazing bold flavor and works beautifully in a quick pan fry. And also there's no risk here if you're not completely satisfied with your first box. Wild Alaskan company will give You a full refund, no questions asked. Not all fish are the same. Get seafood you can trust. Go to wildalaskan.com jtf for $35 off your first box of premium wild Caught Seafood. That's wildalaskan.com JTF for $35 off your first order. Thanks to Wild Alaskan Company for sponsoring this episode. And we're back with more dinners on me.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

Listen, I moved to LA in 91. The AIDS crisis was barely in the rearview mirror. Yeah, barely in the rearview mirror. I graduated from college, and all the people I went was waiting tables with in New York were positive and dropping like flies. And that was 87.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

So within four or five years of that, I was an actor in LA. And I think that crisis, at a time in my life that was 15 to 25, was formative.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Absolutely.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

Took a very long time to sort of shake the negative stigma.

[Michael]

Well, and I think that's something that is worth bringing up because I think that sometimes, you know, people can get. There's a lot of judgment around, like, how people choose to come out.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

Oh, totally.

[Michael]

And I feel very. So often people are just not looking at the circumstances of what the. What's happening, that person's life at that moment, whether it be where they were raised or how they felt. How they felt supported by their families or something like the AIDS crisis, which was terrifying. You know, I was a little young to sort of. I was on the other side of it. But, you know, it was even for me, like, for my parents when I was coming out when I was young. And like, they were like, okay, we might have this young kid who is gay. And they would see things about people dying of AIDS on television, and they would start crying because they would think that that's exactly where I was heading.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

That was the path.

[Michael]

And it made me feel like on the other side of it, having not even been able to even start exploring relationships, like, oh, I gotta be careful. Like, I can't.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

I.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Waiting in these waters is terrifying.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

Correct.

[Michael]

And, you know, so I had my own experience with. With, you know, that crisis, but it sort of like, chopped me off at

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

the legs a little bit.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

Yeah, of course. Of course. And also there's so much judgment involved. Like, being gay was synonymous with having AIDS for a long time. And you're like, yeah, wait, there are. There's so much more to it than this. And there's so much about this disease that needs to. That needs our attention. And it didn't get that attention, certainly not in the 80s. And then later, having to convince our parents that there's a whole other life to lead that is possible. I think a big part of my desire to be kind of heteronormative in my path as a gay man, I wanted to get married and I wanted to have kids. And it was sort of to push back against any belief that you can't have everything and still be a gay person.

[Michael]

It's so interesting that you had those desires, because I didn't necessarily have those desires. And yet my husband, who's 10 years younger than me, did, because he saw possibility in that. And I just didn't see it as

[Dan Bucatinsky]

something that was even an option.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

An option?

[Dan Bucatinsky]

Yeah. I mean, I saw it. Don's lawyer, and I don't remember what year this was, really. A gay lawyer in Hollywood, married, had a baby naming and mare and commitment ceremony at the Chateau MARMONT, like in 1996, 97. And my eyes were like. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. I was so unbelievably moved by it because I was literally watching two men do what I thought was the impossible. And right around then, I was invited to the GLAAD Awards. It wasn't, was it the GLAAD Awards? I think it was. It was very different than the GLAAD Awards. Now. It was not quite as huge and it wasn't watched by the whole country. But I couldn't believe my eyes. I was like, oh, my God, I'm in a giant ballroom with all these tuxedoed men and women. And it was a celebration. Again, I didn't think it was possible. I just didn't think that kind of outness was possible. And I was still, what, 30, 31. So cut to 25 years later. There's so much progress has been made.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

And now I'm like, too old to enjoy it. Too old to enjoy it.

[Michael]

I think in hindsight, we all would love to. I would love to go back and redo so many things. Yeah, absolutely.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

The things that.

[Michael]

Knowing what I know now and, like, where we were heading and, like. Sure, absolutely.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

But you weren't held back. You.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

I mean, I'm sure you were held back by fears and by cons, like the things that are internal. But I. I'm in. In many ways, the decade between us. Yeah. Allowed you. Well, listen, every decade got a little bit more. Yeah, your decade got a little bit more. I think a decade, Justin's decade is allowed even more in terms of what feels possible internally. It's not really about what's literally possible. It's it's what we perceive to be possible.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

And we stop ourselves way more than the world is stopping us. And so it just took me a long time.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

And now I'm, you know, I want to wave my freak frag. My. My freak flag. Yeah. Yeah. I think that what did it to me and it wasn't. This is just an example of how powerful a fucking closet is. I was. I made that movie all over the Guy, which was a love story. I starred in it. I wrote it. It was. Much of it was autobiographical. And I refused to talk about how autobiographical it was to the press. I was like, well, the writer. The writer is out, but the actor isn't out. I was like, I. And I'm. I'm a college educated individual. Like, when I'm saying it now, I'm like, what kind of dumbass did I actually think I could get away with talking about sort of the. The autobiographical tones of my script. Right. But the actor, I don't need. It's none of your business who I sleep with. Like, hanging on for dear life to this idea that in order for me to be the chameleon that I think I want to be, you can't know about my personal life. And I still to this day believe that, like, depending on the career you have, depending on the kind of roles you think you can get.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Sure.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

Who you vote for, what religion you are, what your politics is, what your sexuality is, the more of a mystery you are, the more you can play. That's true.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Right.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

But who. You know, it became quite.

[Michael]

Well, it has been recently, you know, I feel like it has been sort of embedded in almost anyone's life. I'm not even going to say like, in the entertainment industry, but like, such a need from everyone to know what everyone.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Where everyone stands on everything 100%.

[Michael]

And I don't think that that's necessarily something that is doing anyone any good.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

No. And social media has made it so that, like, you have a window into the real lives of any celebrity that wants to tell you about it. And if they don't, they don't. Yeah. And to hang on to your privacy becomes. Becomes a way. Well, sadly, you either create mystery and more intrigue or a complete, in my case, people's lack of interest. So. So, you know, you have to sort of pedal whatever you can to grab on to whatever you.

[Michael]

Right, right.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Right. Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Dan shares all about his longtime collaboration with Lisa Kudrow. And he tells Me hilarious behind the scenes stories from their comedy series Web Therapy. All right, be right back. I love beautiful landscaping. I love having a beautiful backyard, gorgeous trees, flowers, the idea of its incredible. And then I actually go to a nursery and I immediately feel overwhelmed. I'm wandering around trying to figure out what works, what won't die in two weeks, how I'm even going to get at home in my car. Especially when I have, hypothetically, two small children who have completely different priorities than plant shopping. That's why I love fast Growing Trees. It's America's largest and most trusted online nursery, so you can browse thousands of trees and plants right from your couch. They'll recommend plants that actually work for your climate and space. And everything arrives healthy, ready to thrive, backed by their alive and thrive guarantee. It just makes the whole process so much easier. And honestly, listen, more enjoyable right now. They have great deals on spring planting essentials, up to half off on select plants. And listeners to our show get 20% off their first purchase when using the code DOM at checkout. That's an additional 20% off. Better plants and better growing. At fastgrowingtrees.com using the code DOM at checkout fastgrowingtrees.com code DOM now is the perfect time to plant. Let's grow together. Use code DOM to save today. Offer is valid for a limited time. Terms and conditions may apply. And we're back with more dinners on me.

[Michael]

Did you, did you try and create a lot of things that didn't work?

[Dan Bucatinsky]

Oh, yeah. I mean, we made a. We made a lot of things. We developed a ton of things. I mean, the experience of the, of developing at Warner Brothers for three years, they were very supportive of us and would give us access to talent and to books and to writers and to showrunners. And we made a pilot in 2005, my daughter was born. We, the Comeback came out and we made a pilot with Jeanine Garofalo based on the life of Annie Duke, a poker, poker champion. And, and I made a pilot called Commuters with Christine Taylor and David Arquette. And I mean, we made. There were so many things going on in 2005, our heads almost exploded. So there it was, a very vibrant, vital time. 2003, 2004, 2005, friends was over. Around 2007, we started making who do youo Think youk Are and Web Therapy.

[Michael]

The Comeback happened before Friends was off the air.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

No, Friends was off the air in 2004. Okay, right, right. At the end of Friends, Michael and Lisa had lunch and they cooked up this idea and HBO said, sure.

[Michael]

Cause I just remember, like, what I was so inspired by that I was like, oh, you know, there's so many things that someone could do after the successful run of a ten year show.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

Yeah.

[Michael]

And to go back onto television, but then onto like a cable network with this, like, character that was so different

[Dan Bucatinsky]

and dark and like, oh my God, so different. I mean, listen, Lisa is one of my best friends, but I'm gonna tell you objectively, one of the smartest humans, most talented, intuitive, insightful, like crazy. Her ability to figure out the nuance of a character. One reason I love partnering with her was because when we were developing a story and we would meet with the writers, her ability to suss out, like, what would be an interesting motivation for a character or where the drive of the story was. I mean, she's a genius.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

And we really yin yang'd each other because I was. I was more savvy in the areas of maybe the actual business and, and navigating the studio and the network and. But I was also a writer, so I could give writer notes in a very collaborative way. But I had an appetite. I had an appetite that drove Lisa crazy. I mean, I was like, let's do more. Let's do. Oh, let's do a talk show. Let's also do a this show, and let's also do that. Like, let's just focus on. She was very good at sort of making me focus.

[Michael]

Right, right, right.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

And I was pretty good at sort of nudging her out of her comfort zone from time to time. And we've. We've even produced a game show called 25 Words or Less, which has been on the air. We're about to start our eighth season.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Where is it airing?

[Dan Bucatinsky]

It airs every day. It's a syndicated daytime talk show that is hosted by Meredith Vieira, who is a dream.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yes.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

We've made over 1,200 episodes.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Wow.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

Yeah, I know.

[Michael]

And with web therapy, that started off

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

on literally online on the web. And this was.

[Michael]

Wait, but from what I remember, I don't remember anything else like that existing.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Where.

[Michael]

Was it on YouTube or was it online?

[Dan Bucatinsky]

It wasn't on YouTube. It was on a. We were approached about doing webisodes and Lisa was like, these webisodes are pilots that people did not get produced, that they're breaking into three parts. And it just doesn't feel organic to the web. The only thing I can imagine in a million years being really funny on the web is somebody who actually is trying to get their, to make money as a professional on the actual Web. Like therapy. People were doing therapy on the web. Imagine a therapist who only does three minute sessions because it's during your lunch break at work that you're getting therapy.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yes.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

She thought that that would just be a funny concept. And we were approached by Lexus, the car company, because they launched a platform called L Studio. They were not selling cars on it. It wasn't Lexus.com it was L Studio, where interesting documentaries and short form content. They were way ahead of their time. They were doing short form content on an, on a Lexus sponsored platform, but it had nothing to do with cars. And they said, why don't whatever you and Lisa want to do. And Lisa said, the only thing I can think of that would be fun to do is this therapist. And so we got to keep, we got to own the content, which was amazing. I mean, that as a model for what the future had in store for itself was kind of ahead of its time. They financed us making little webisodes. We agreed to post them on El Studio and had a contract for how much time they could exploit those episodes. But we owned it. And then our agent said, you guys have made all of these three minute episodes. If you strung a bunch of them together, you can have a 30 minute half hour and we could license this to another platform. And we're like, I guess, but we're not designing them as 30 minutes. Right. So we pitched it to Showtime and Bob Greenblatt, who was the head of Showtime at the time, the legendary Bob Greenblatt was like, yeah, let's do it. And then Don, my husband Don, was also a creator, producer and director of these. The three of us got together and we're like, if we're going to do them as half hours, let's design them as half hours. So we'll make them so that they work each scene on its own so that they can play first on the Internet. Yes. And then we'll tie them together so that the storylines could play as half hours. And so we outlined the shit out of these seasons. And the deal, the deal we made was that they would have to air online first and Showtime would be, would be licensing existing content. They didn't own it. They were just licensing these half hours at a very, very low, at a very low rate. And we managed. And because people, we would improvise the show and there were no notes from the studio, we got to do whatever we wanted. Everybody wanted to play with Lisa.

[Michael]

And so, I mean, that's why I was there.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

Yeah. I mean, in an afternoon. We shot all your scenes in four hours. We did the same thing with Meryl Streep and Meg Ryan and Conan o' Brien and Steve Carell. And it's. We're very proud. We did meet 44 half hour episodes. I mean, and, you know, it was.

[Michael]

There's also some of those things. When it was on, I was like, oh, my God, what a great idea.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

It really grew.

[Michael]

Why has anyone thought about this?

[Dan Bucatinsky]

What if? Somebody hung all. All the good ideas start with just a what if.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Right.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

You know, and Lisa got to figure out who this character was. And. And the only limitation we gave ourselves was that the only cameras that could ever capture either the patient or the therapist would have to be a webcam.

[Michael]

Yes.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

Like, we could not shoot objectively so easy.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Michael]

There was no, like, outside of the office scenes, or there were worse of

[Dan Bucatinsky]

outside the office scenes. Because there came. When we did our second season, Lexus was like, well, we're paying for all these, so we're gonna need you to mention Lexus at some point. And we're gonna need to see the Lexus at some point. And we were like, this is crazy. Like, this is not the way people have therapy.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Right.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

But we figured out a way to make. To just. We took it as a challenge to figure out how our characters might wind up doing therapy from their laptops in the car in a parking lot.

[Michael]

Because, remind me, was FaceTime a thing then?

[Dan Bucatinsky]

Skype was.

[Michael]

Skype was. Right. Because it was fine.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

We squeezed a little bit of money out of Skype.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

I was gonna say again, the brand partnering stuff. Like, we would get on the phone and just try to make deals with these companies that would give us not huge amounts of money. But our budgets weren't very big. So you get 20 grand from Keurig to put a coffee pot behind you, a coffee maker behind you. You're like, we'll take it. You know?

[Michael]

Yeah. It's amazing how often that happens in television. And people don't realize.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I.

[Michael]

You know, even with Modern Family. I know cars were a big thing.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

Yeah. You guys were always in cars.

[Michael]

We were always in cars. It's like. But there would. They would push. The companies would push it a little bit. Like, they're like, let's see if we can get, like, some language out of the characters. And so, like, we would sometimes have to write in stuff about the car and. And it would give and say it

[Dan Bucatinsky]

and say it, but without. Without saying the name of the car.

[Michael]

I Don't know.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

I don't know. If we could you talk about the feature of the car without saying features. Yeah. You wouldn't be like, God, I love that Jeep Cherokee.

[Michael]

No, no, no, no, no.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

Cause that's hard.

[Michael]

I don't think it was that. I think it was, like, about features that the car had. But we would always laugh really hard when those would come up because,

[Dan Bucatinsky]

yeah, we did it. We did it. We did it with Crystal Light. And it was really awkward.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

We built a storyline where Alan Cumming had to make a mocktail with Crystal Light and on camera, and we're like, all right, now it's the tail wag and the dog, right?

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

I mean, I go back and watch them now and find them so funny because it's almost like an improv game. It's like, okay, we're gonna give you a household. You know, we're gonna give you these three random things, and you have to work them into your story in an organic way. So we would work these things into the story in an organic way. But the number of scenes that we. The number of sessions that Valerie that Fiona had from inside of a vehicle was a little bit more than normal. In fact, my character got run over by her car at one point. So we got a shot, I guess a camera and shot. I wonder what camera captured that. I don't know. There was a shot of me getting hit by her Lexus, and we had to talk about whether was that seeing the net. Was that seeing the car in a negative light? But as long as it was Jerome's fault and it was my fault that I threw myself in front of the car, that's why we did that.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That was a little side dish for my conversation with Dan Bukatinsky. If you haven't heard our full conversation yet, make sure to check it out on Dinners On Me. This episode of Dinners On Me was recorded at Louise's Tattoria in Larchmont Village in Los Angeles, California. Next week on Dinners On Me, you know her from the movie, musical version of Mean Girls and no Way Home. She's now starring in the gripping Apple TV series the Last Thing He Told Me. It's Angouri Rice. We'll talk about what it was like working alongside Jennifer Gardner and how growing up in the industry shaped the kinds of roles she's drawn to today. Plus, we get into her podcast and why storytelling has become such an important creative outlet. Dinners On Me is a production of Sony Music Entertainment and A Kid Named Beckett Productions. It's hosted by me Jesse Tyler Ferguson. It's executive produced by me and Jonathan Hirsch. Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Our associate producer is Alyssa Midcalf. Sam Baer engineered this episode. Hans Dale, she composed our theme music. Our head of production is Sammy Allison. Special thanks to Tameka Balance Kolasny and Justin Makita. I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Join me next week.

[Craig Melvin]

I'm Craig Melvin. Cheers.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

Cheers. Cheers.

[Craig Melvin]

I've always been a glass half full kind of guy, and now I'm talking to some people who look at the world that way, too. Some really fascinating folks who share their defining moments, their triumphs, challenges, their stories are funny and quite candid. So I hope you'll join me each week. And who knows, you might just come away with your own glass half full.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Search Glass Half Full with Craig Melvin From Today on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts.