'CHROMAKOPIA' | LAST SONG STANDING (E6)

Summary

Dissect – 'CHROMACOPIA' | LAST SONG STANDING (E6)

Podcast: Dissect
Host: Cole Cuchna
Guests: Charles Holmes, Justin
Date: August 4, 2026
Season Focus: Tyler, the Creator's discography
Episode Focus: Deep dive and “last song standing” debate on Tyler's eighth studio album: Chromacopia

---

Episode Overview

In this rich, sprawling episode, Cole Cuchna and Charles Holmes dissect Tyler, the Creator’s 2024 album Chromacopia, arguably his most personal and musically sophisticated work to date. Together, they analyze the album’s concept, musicality, features, its place in Tyler's artistic evolution, and debate which track deserves to advance as Tyler’s potential “greatest song” into the season’s grand finale. With production insights, lyrical analysis, personal stories, and some sharp banter, the conversation not only maps the DNA of Chromacopia, but also reflects on Tyler’s legacy and growth as a producer, songwriter, and storyteller.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Project’s Theme and Tyler’s Artistic Maturity

Concept of “Home” & Chromacopia’s Naming

• Chromacopia explores the notion of “home”—is it a place, a memory, or internal strength?

• "Chroma" symbolizes purity or intensity of color, "copia" means abundance. For Tyler, “Chromacopia” represents an inner, abundant, and authentic home.

  • Cole [10:04]: “What is home? Is it a place? Is it an idea?... Chromacopia is actually the name Tyler gives home on the album.”

• Tyler’s mother’s voice is woven through the album as a guiding “light,” relaying love, hard-won lessons, and ultimately, forgiveness.

• The opening track, “St. Chroma,” sets out the record’s central motif: holding onto your inner light and authentic self in the face of life’s changes and challenges.

  • “The light is inside you... Don’t ever dim your light for anybody.” (Tyler’s mom on the intro)

• The album marks a new era:

  • Released after a longer-than-usual hiatus (three years).
  • Breaks his pattern of 10-track, split-song albums—a symbolic “rebirth.”

Tyler’s Evolution as Producer, Songwriter, and Performer

• Chromacopia is seen as a technical zenith for Tyler, synthesizing styles from his prior eras (from Flower Boy’s lushness to Igor’s vulnerability and Call Me’s bravado).

  • Charles [19:28]: “This is a spiritual successor to Cherry Bomb... but he is so much more adept at knowing how to produce a record.”
  • Cole [18:15]: “Production-wise, songwriting-wise... even if it’s not my favorite Tyler album... it is technically his best.”

• Tyler’s growing comfort with pop and R&B forms shines through, with dynamic song structures and confident, well-arranged vocals.

• He expands his collaborative reach, pairing with both established artists (Lil Wayne, Daniel Caesar) and rising voices (Dochi, Sexyy Red, Glorilla), curating features with an ear for cohesion and novelty.

  • Charles [43:33]: “...when Tyler gets in a room with people who inspired him, it just, like, I want to do something special.”

Themes of Growth, Forgiveness, and Personal Complexity

• The album is autobiographical and reflective; topics include parenthood, fame, aging, commitment, and self-forgiveness.

• Notably, it features Tyler’s most profound reckoning with his absentee father, culminating in raw, cathartic moments on songs like “Like Him.”

  • Cole [62:11]: “...throughout this entire song is forgive his mother... and Tyler finds closure in forgiving his mother and presumably his father.”

• The album’s emotional depth comes with trade-offs—its themes may be less “sexy” or escapist than past Tyler projects, but are universally relatable for listeners aging with the artist.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Tyler’s Live Musical Growth

“Her [Rosalia’s] voice live is fucking insane… It was like a spiritual experience that I left a changed man.”
— Cole [01:55]

On Technical Mastery and Songwriting

“...what he does, it’s lighthearted, it’s fun... it feels good... it feels like a 2000s era R&B song where it has the rapper and the singer—but he’s doing both parts.”
— Cole on “Darling I” [74:12]

On Emotional Resolution

“Tyler, I think, absolves his dad as the villain... and Tyler finds himself, I think, finds closure in forgiving his mother and presumably his father. You get three resolutions emotionally with just this one outro…”
— Cole on “Like Him” [63:32]

On Tyler’s Maturing Themes

“A lot of what Tyler's rapping about on this record is just not as sexy… He’s turning 30, his friends are getting pregnant. He doesn't know what to do… I like that it's so honest.”
— Charles [20:55]

On Artistic Curation

“He is a hands-on the keyboard producer, but he’s also a curator producer, a la Kanye... and gives it to Glorilla, gives it to Sexyy Red. Chef’s kiss.”
— Cole on “Sticky” [39:31]

A Moment of Comic Levity

“Have you seen Drake’s penis leak?”
— Cole (referencing a bleeped lyric from “Sticky”) [46:19]

---

Major Album Analysis Segments (with Timestamps)

[07:11] – Album Facts & Reception

• Release details, sales, Grammy nominations.
• Monday release and shifting industry strategies.

[09:57–16:01] – Album Theme: “Home” and “Light”

• Tyler’s Hawthorne roots, the concept of “Chromacopia,” and the role of his mother’s guidance.
• Self-reflection, family, and authenticity.

[16:01–24:13] – Artistic Evolution

• Tyler’s fluid eras; breaking his own formulas.
• Chromacopia as synthesis and maturation.

[26:17–33:11] – Lightning “Quiz” Round

• Trivia about the album’s Easter eggs, features, and cultural tie-ins.

[36:13–96:13] – Nominee Debate: The Chromacopia Standouts

Each host picked three standout tracks, offering detailed musical and thematic analysis.

- [37:04] Sticky (ft. Glorilla, Sexyy Red, Lil Wayne) [Charles]

• Meticulous marching band/HBCU-inspired production, layered horns and vocals, tight feature curation.
• Features delivered in four-bar bursts to maintain energy; dynamic song structure.
• Cohesive, “cornucopia of sound,” described as “one of his best produced songs.”

- [51:13] Like Him [Cole]

• Tyler’s reckoning with his absent father; song pivots from childhood pain to hard-won forgiveness for his mother.
• Minimal, vulnerable piano opening into full arrangement, with a dramatic narrative twist and emotional resolution in last verse/outro.
• “Maybe the most powerful moment, emotionally, in his entire catalog.” — Cole

- [70:52] Darling I (ft. Tizo Touchdown) [Both]

• Light, playful take on non-monogamy with sticky early-2000s R&B/hip-hop vibes.
• Tyler takes both female and male “roles”; boasts lush composition, shifting vocal textures, classic drum/percussion interpolations.

- [82:41] Balloon (ft. Dochi) [Both]

• Bouncing energy, Dochi’s guest verse widely praised as one of the best features.
• Heavy sampling of city pop and 2 Live Crew, reinforcing Tyler’s knack for cross-coastal musical references.

Other contenders, honorable mentions, and outtakes discussed:

• “Noid,” “Take Your Mask Off,” “Tomorrow,” “Judge Judy," and "Hey Jane”—all praised for thematic boldness or technical execution but seen as a tier below the chosen finalists.

---

“Last Song Standing” Selections

• Charles: "Darling I"

  • “I think Darling I is a more successful song than Sticky is... It's just so seamless and slick.” [94:43]

• Cole: "Like Him"

  • “It’s a Garden Shed level... I actually might even surpass Garden Shed for me. So I’m gonna go easy—Like Him.” [96:03]

These tracks advance as each host's “Chromacopia” representative for the season’s Tyler song royal rumble.

---

Additional Highlights

Tyler’s Sonic Palette & Influences

• Comparison to Kanye’s “Graduation,” Neptunes, early 2000s pop/hip-hop duets.
• Smart sample/interpolation use: vibrant thing (Q-Tip), Drop It Like It’s Hot, Japanese city pop, and Florida/Miami bass.

Reflections on Tyler's Audience & Place in Rap

• Generational differences shape which “era” of Tyler people love.
• Tyler’s shifting role from outsider to curatorial “elder statesman” bringing up the next wave.

Trivia & Easter Eggs

• St. Chroma alter-ego foreshadowed in “Sorry Not Sorry” video [27:59]
• Sticky’s live performance with Jackson State’s Sonic Boom of the South [33:45]
• Elusive Playboi Carti feature cut from test vinyl [31:15]
• Baby Keem ad-lib drop in the climax of “Like Him” [69:36]

---

Listener Takeaways

• Chromacopia is not just one of Tyler’s most cohesive albums, but also his most autobiographical and emotionally resolved.
• The episode showcases how Tyler’s skills as songwriter, producer, and curator have all matured, often in surprising ways—balancing technical rigor and human connection.
• “Darling I” and “Like Him” are celebrated not just for catchy hooks or dazzling beats, but for what they reveal about Tyler’s growth, vulnerability, and ability to surprise his audience.
• The discussion doesn’t shy away from critical takes, balancing adoration with honest critique on sequencing, accessibility, and subject matter.

---

Cultural Exchange [100:21–End]

• Charles assigned Cole to watch Ghost in the Shell (1995) — Cole relates to its foundational cyber-futurist themes but notes the pace and storytelling as challenging compared to other narrative forms.
• Cole assigns Charles the short story “Where I’m Calling From” by Raymond Carver—famed for its poetic minimalism and emotional depth.

---

Episode Recap: Last Song Standing Choices

Cole’s list:

• Bastard title track
• She
• Answer
• Cherry Bomb title track
• Garden Shed
• New Magic Wand
• Lumberjack
• Like Him

Charles’s list:

• French
• Yonkers
• Bimmer
• Buffalo
• Who Dat Boy
• Gone, Gone / Thank You
• Lemonhead
• Darling I

Balloon and Sticky are runner-ups, with “future strong” cases for the live debate in the season finale.

---

Final Thoughts

In a season dedicated to Tyler, the Creator’s complex musical odyssey, this episode stands out for its blend of personal history, granular musical analysis, and enthusiastic debate. For fans looking to re-engage with Chromacopia or Tyler’s broader arc, there’s an abundance of insight and celebration—serving both Tyler “heads” and casual listeners in understanding what makes this chapter worthy of deep, affectionate Dissection.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign. Welcome, everyone, to Last Long Standing. I'm Cole Kushta.

[B]

And I'm Charles Holmes. And in this fifth season of Last Long Standing, we are taking a journey through the entire discography of Tyler, the creator, in order to crown the greatest Tyler song of all time.

[A]

Last episode, we unpacked 2021's Call Me if youf Get Lost. And today, diving into Tyler's most personal album to date. Okay. 2024's Chromacopia.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Roll My windows Up. Dollar Rolling windows Up. Biscuit Ass niggas. So I am. I am so excited for this episode because I feel. I don't feel. I know Chroma Copia is an album that I might have disregarded when it came out, and this is one that you and the Tyler head swear by. So I am actually, as I was listening to the project, I'm like, oh, we're gonna have a fun fucking episode.

[A]

Well, my spirit is good, Charles, let me just tell you, I've been reborn since the last time I saw you.

[B]

Reborn?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What happened?

[A]

I saw Rosalia in concert. Speak on it, dog.

[B]

Where does it stack up in terms of just, like, concerts, just that you've seen in your lifetime?

[A]

So the show was in Oakland, and I spent my entire 1 1/2 hour drive home thinking about that exact question. And it's number one.

[B]

Number one.

[A]

Number one. It goes. Number one, Rosalia Lux Tour.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Number two, Kanye West, Yeezus Store.

[B]

Wait, this was over Yeezus?

[A]

Yep.

[B]

God Damn.

[A]

And number three, Mr. Morale Tour. In terms of, like, I've had maybe better experiences at some concerts, but in terms of production, what really takes it over the top for Rosalia is her voice. Live is fucking insane. It's so beautiful and moving, and she's doing ballerina stuff. Every song was a music video. It was so. I felt like it was. It was like a spiritual experience that I left. I changed, man.

[B]

I love hearing this. I saw Rosalia at Lollapalooza once before. Like, I had heard the name, maybe heard some records. And it wasn't until I did hear singing live that I became a fan, like, every single album. Because it's just the run she goes on, the, like, the operatic influences, everything. She's just an amazing performer.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Fuck, I can't believe I missed this.

[A]

I would have. Yeah, it was like. It was one of the. It was the last show she did in the States because I went online. The first thing I did was like, where is she playing next? I'm going to travel to go see this show again, and it was like, Columbia or something, so I can. Yeah. Anyway, it's not a. I had to give this shout out. It's not a Rosalia podcast. But I'm feeling good.

[B]

You look reborn and refreshed, and I am literally like a rotting corpse of myself. I just got back from San Diego. I just saw Spider Man. I am just kind of just like. I am just awash in the juices of Comic Con, and that is not how I would like to live my life.

[A]

All right, well, a little palate cleanse. Should we go over our list before we get into Chromucopia?

[B]

Absolutely. All right, you go first.

[A]

All right, so our list getting pretty big. We're rounding the corner on the season. So from the top, I have Bastard title track. She answer Cherry Bomb title track. Garden Shed, New Magic Wand. And last episode, I went with Lumberjack off. Call me if you get lost. And what do you got?

[B]

Very basic list compared to mine. I have French Yonkers, Bimmer, Buffalo, who Dat Boy Gongon. Thank you, Lemonhead. And then in a very savvy move on our part, the coaches challenge was used last episode. Justin, you picked Earthquake. Are you still feeling good about that?

[C]

Again, I was boxed into taking it. You guys knew that we couldn't go into a finale without Earthquake, so I had to do what I had to

[A]

do for the team. Admirable. But I think there's some songs on Chromucopia that we'll see how it plays out. But there's some important songs in this record. So you ready to get into it? Actually, let's recap the rules.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And then we're gonna get into Cormacopia. Cause my take is gonna be, I think, a little bit different than what you're expecting about this record. So for those who have forgotten, each episode of Last Song Standing covers one Tyler album where Charles and I are both forced to pick the best song off of that album, AKA the last song standing. Then in our season finale, we have our royal rumble, where I'll bring the songs we've chosen from each album, and they'll duke it out until we can both agree on the single greatest Tyler the Creator song of all time. Question. Do you have one in your mind? I don't want to know what it is, but is there one that you're like, okay, it's kind of.

[B]

This one is the first season. Sorry, y'. All. It's been a long day. Shout out to Icemon. Anyway, no, this is. And I think that's good. Like in other seasons I've had like one or two going in that I'm like, I'm really going to fight for. And it. It has changed like every single day. I'm like, I. This is the first time I'm going into one of our finales being like, oh, I'm gonna have to listen to every single song with a fine tooth comb.

[A]

Yeah, that's what's been really fun about this season. Even seeing some of the interaction online, there's just not a consensus. And there's a few songs on our list that really surprised me. There is one. Privately, I'm kind of. It feels like the one to beat, but I also think there's a one to beat on this album.

[B]

So do you think part of this is also because Tyler has so many eras? So depending upon when you got on the odd future train, it might be Yonkers, it might be something like New Magic Wand. And I think even Tyler in his career. And we'll talk about it with this album, he's also not at war, but sometimes I feel like he's pushing against his fans, keeping him in one era because he always constantly wants to like grow and change and push the boundaries.

[A]

Well, I think a lot of it's experiential. I mean, all music is this way. But like, you seemed more fond of the early Tyler because that's like you're younger and you're kind of experiencing that in real time where I came a little bit later. So I have less of an attachment to those songs. But I'm really attached to like a flower boy more than you because that was my really getting to know Tyler and falling in love with him. So that's what's interesting in an exercise like this because you kind of have to like balance personal with objective and yeah, let's not spoil too much of the finale pod, but I'm excited.

[B]

Hell yeah.

[A]

Ready to get into Chromacopia. This episode is presented by Sierra Nevada. Life's about embracing the haze. What does that mean? Living in the moment. Seeing where the night takes you. Being up for the adventure. And there's no better way to embrace it than with. Hazy Little Thing by Sierra Nevada Hazy, citrusy, smooth, juicy but not sweet. Hoppy but not bitter. America's best selling hazy IPA for good reason. Hazy Little thing Enjoy responsibly.

[B]

Yo, let's get into Chromacopia. We got some album facts to get into. Chromacopia is Tyler's eighth studio album released on October 28, 2024. The 14 song project features collaborations from Lil Way, Sexyy, Red, Daniel Caesar, Dochi Tizo, Touchdown, Schoolboy Q, among others, and produced three singles, Noid, Sticky Like Him. The album debuted at number one on the Billboard 200, selling 299,000 copies in its first week. And Chromacopia went on to receive five nominations at the 68th Grammy Awards, including Album of the Year, Best Album of the Year, and Best Rap Song, among others.

[A]

Yeah, took an L to gnx, I think.

[B]

I think GNX is a better record, but I don't think the gap was as wide as I would have thought before I went back to give Chromacopia another spin.

[A]

Pause that. Cause I want to hear that take. But we should also note this was released on a Monday for the first time.

[B]

Yes, yes, yes.

[A]

I think a Monday night. So it was kind of a Tuesday release, I think, which is how it

[B]

was for the bulk of my existence as a music fan. And because I am Tyler's same age, I do think that we probably, along with a lot of people, miss that feeling of. I remember when a new album would drop on Tuesday and like I had one of those like dumb email jobs where I could just listen to the new album for a week. And I think Tyler was right because this ended up being one of his biggest selling albums ever. There is a difference between getting to spend a work week with an album

[A]

versus just a weekend competing with the Weeknd. Yeah, I would. I used to go to like Sam Goody or like Best Buy every Tuesday. It was just like whatever, whatever came. And at that time too, you didn't really even know all that came out until you went to the store. For me, it was like buying like every new no limit record release, no matter the artist was just. I had a stack of no limit.

[B]

I think we should go back to Tuesday. I think it would reinvigorate just the industry and people's love of music.

[A]

Justin, do you have a take on this? Do you prefer the Tuesday release versus the Friday drops?

[C]

The only time I ever remember the Friday drop really mattering and this was actually a leak. And I think to me this was kind of a predecessor to the Friday drop. Was that Friday in 2013, June 2013, when Yeezus leaked. Oh yeah, remember that? But look, I prefer Tuesdays.

[A]

Yeah, it's.

[C]

It's the way it was when I was growing up. Friday still doesn't feel right. I'm already checked out for the week, you know. Yeah, you need that time to ramp up for the weekend. So you know you're going to be listening to, like, yeah, bring it back to Tuesday. Let's do it.

[B]

And also, you want to know what a Tuesday drop gave you? When I was younger and I was going out, if it was like a big record, like a Kanye or Jay Z record, it was like, by the weekend, when you're, like, either hanging out with your friends or going to a party, it's like, we all have finally picked the one that we love.

[A]

And at least you could, like, sing along with the choruses at the party. Yeah. Okay, so let's go. Themes, themes. Some heavy themes on Chromacopia, I would say. Do you feel like this is the most personal album to date?

[B]

Yes. And I was actually surprised going back to it, where I thought Flower Boy or something like Igor still would be the ones that I was like, oh, no, this is your grown and Sexy I'm 30 album.

[A]

Yeah. So the album concept started when he was riding bikes around Hawthorne during COVID seeing his old neighborhoods. And then he came up with this question, asking himself, what is home? Is it a place? Is it an idea? Is it inside you? Is it certain people in your life? And essentially the album, it operates under that umbrella. What is home? What does it mean? And so Chromacopia is actually the name Tyler gives home on the album. So chroma means purity or intensity of color, which I think is actually really interesting because you can think about this as intense color or purity. If you're thinking about this idea of home. And how do you maintain this idea of home as you age, which is what this album essentially is, you can think about purity in that way as well. Maintaining a sense of purity in the face of life challenges. And then copia is like abundance. So chroma copia, meaning color or purity and abundance. And this is what he gives his child. I think he's calling his home Chromo Copia, because in the. The opening song on this album really spells out the entire concept pretty clearly. And he says, I was blowing shit back up in Chromo Copia. So it could be his home or his neighborhood. But essentially it's this idea of home that is abundant with light and is pure. And light is also another key motif introduced on St. Chroma as well. The album begins with Tyler's mother saying, the light is inside you, not. She ends this opening speech with, don't ever dim your light for anybody. And the refrain of that song is, can you feel the light inside? Can you feel that fire? And so this is very. This is a kind of a motif that runs through Tyler's entire career, especially starting with Cherry Bomb, which is this idea of an authentic self that you stay true to. And Tyler kind of sets up the main conflict of this album also on the end of St. Chroma, the opening track, where he says, mirror got me thinking about my bookend, thinking about his death. Do I keep the light on or do I gracefully bow out? And so this becomes kind of the question that he's trying to answer. And you can kind of view the rest of the album through that lens. So when we hear songs about relationships, about commitment, about fatherhood, about fame, it's all under this umbrella of, am I staying true to myself throughout this journey and ultimate? Or throughout the entire project. We hear the voice of his mother serving as his kind of quote, unquote, guiding light through his life's challenges and then ultimately ends on kind of Return to the Beginning, where we hear him say, keep shining. The light comes from within. I hope you find your way home. These ideas are all synonymous. Chromocopia is the light within, the light within is home, and home is chromocopia. And this is kind of essentially the conclusion of the album. Does that make sense?

[B]

Doc, come on.

[A]

You're dissected a little bit there. Do you think? Okay, so let me.

[B]

I'm dissected, but it's like, I think when you really hone in on the album, that is. It is a pure record in terms of. There's not as much obfuscation or hiding themes or what. Like, he's very. Just telling the stories straight to you. It's funny how to me, this ends in era for Tyler in a lot of ways. Instead of it being like Dr. TC being his conscious, he has his mom and her words, and it kind of like, ties this whole. It's a unified kind of theory of like, oh, all of these lessons were always there. And I was just like, oh, that's beautiful.

[A]

Yeah. The way he recontextualizes his mother's lessons in a way that reflects, I think, everyone's experience growing up, if you had good parents, which was like. Like the shit that they say to you now, which is what I'm saying to my kids right now, that they hate hearing. You're like. You know, you get into your 30s and you're like, ah. It makes. It all starts to click. And also, we'll talk about this a little bit later with one of my nominations. But it is also Tyler seeing his mom as a human being, which I think is Another kind of thing that we experience as we grow older, which is, you know, parents are either superheroes or failures. And if you mature in a certain way and you hopefully come to the realization that they're just flawed human beings just like everyone else. Which I think is kind of reflects Tyler's kind of maturation over time. Which has been one of the coolest things about this exercise is experiencing Tyler's maturation over. I mean, this. We should actually talk about this. Breaks his traditional album cycle. So Chroma Copia, the space between Call Me if you Get Lost and Chroma Copia is three years. Over three years, which is. Breaks his tradition of releasing an album every other year. It also. He stops doing the split 10 track, track 10 double song thing. So does that feels to me a little bit symbolic of like a new era to your point? You know where I do think he is breaking away from some of the traditions that he built for himself. And I think a lot of that was kind of liberating for him as an artist. As we'll talk about next episode with like, something like Don't Tap the Glass was also another act of breaking a certain pattern and finding this freedom that I think feels true to the premise of this album of just staying true to his authentic self and just doing what he wants to do.

[B]

It's funny that both Chroma Copia and GNX were released in very similar time periods because Tamia, they are very. They are west coast albums. They are coming home albums. Tyler has talked about it, but his delivery on a lot of these records, he's letting his LA accent come out more. On Don't Tap the Glass, he's going back to his childhood and bringing forth a lot of the dance, the black dance music that he was hearing as a kid. And it was so funny listening to Chromacopia where I was like, oh, this is a synthesis of Flower Boy, Igor, Call Me if youf Get Lost. Where to me, this is like. I mean, this. Stylistically, this is a major label rap album. It is Tyler doing the graduation. It is him making sense of I can. I bring contemporaries like Glorilla or Sexyy Red or Dochi, people that I either inspired or are inspiring me. But I still have Lil Wayne on it. I can incorporate Daniel Caesar in his own Touchdown. And that's probably why I dismissed it maybe when it first came out, because I was like, oh, this is your, like, real, real pop record. And without, with Distance, I was like, damn, but these pop records are so good. Like, they are so lush. And to hear how much he's grown. We will talk about it. A lot of the songs I'm going to pick are like this, Per. It's not just that, like, Tyler makes good beats anymore. He is a phenomenal pop producer.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Some of the shit he's doing on this record, I was like, God damn.

[A]

Okay, so I'm glad you said that. And I think we're gonna kind of meet in the middle here because, as you know, throughout this, I've kind of been pumping up this album. I haven't returned to it in months, actually. So this was a really interesting exercise for me in terms of. I think I had the opposite experience where in my head it was. I had it near the top of his discography, and I think it's still towards the top for me. But it. I think it. I wouldn't say it is aged badly. It's just not as. Maybe as. As good as I remembered it.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But. But I remember. I mean, I still do love exactly what you said about this record, which is that. And that's why I was so high on it in the beginning, was that production wise, songwriting wise, I think you can make. Even if it's not my favorite Tyler the Creator album, I think you can make a case it is technically his best in terms of producer songwriting, all the technical stuff. Stylistically. Yeah. Maybe you prefer an Igor or a Flower Boy or whatever, but if I'm just putting my technical objective, kind of like analysis, kind of mind to this record, it's like phenomenal songs like Darling I, which I think we'll talk about, just the arrangements are so dynamic and effortless, you know, and it is a. You know, to use the. The Copia, it is a kind of a cope. A cornucopia of all of his sounds in like. So if you go to, like, Flower Boy, Igor, Call Me if you go to Lost, they're more compartmentalized in their sounds.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Each one has their own world. It still feels like Tyler, but it's, like, more singular, where I think Chromo Copia does a great job of synthesizing all of that into one package. For the first, I think something he was really trying to do on Cherry Bomb, but really nails it on Chromatopia,

[B]

where this is a spiritual successor to Cherry Bomb to me in a lot of ways, where he goes a lot of different. Different ways with the music and the production, but he is so much more adept at knowing how to produce a record. His sing to me, people like. His singing is the best on this record. I'm like, no. If you go and listen to how he's, like, singing and building melodies, to me, it's even better than his performance, than a lot of his performances. On Igor, he's so much more confident.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Same thing with his rapping, his delivery and dexterity. He is so much just like, yeah, sharp.

[A]

Yeah. If. Yeah. It's like, if. Even if you don't like a song like a Judge Judy. Right. I can see some people just not liking a song.

[B]

Like, this is not one of my favorites.

[A]

Right. But you would have to say that idea is executed very well.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Right. And I think that's across the board on this album is you can say that about essentially every song. It's like, even if it's not your preference, technically, these are great. There's not a bad song on this record, I don't think. And so that's. So it's like, while on my revisiting of the album, it did kind of fall where I think I, like, in my head, it used to be like, okay, Igor Chromacopia neck and neck for, like, my top spot revisiting. I think Igor is going to be my clear number one after this exercise. And Chroma Compia kind of fell. But that is not to discredit what I think this album is exemplifying.

[B]

Before we get to the quiz part, I think what did not work about this record, and it's not. I think it's just more of a taste thing. A lot of what Tyler's rapping about on this record is just not as sexy in terms of. He's turning 30, his friends are getting pregnant. He doesn't know what to do. He's paranoid about being rich. It's relatable because probably I'm the same age. I don't want to hear things. And that's nothing against him. I'm just like. I like that it's so honest. But I think it's the same thing with Jay Z's 444, where I'm like, you needed to make this record. This is a great record. But it is.

[A]

It has the morale effect where it's like, in my mind, morale is a incredible album, but is it the album that I return to the most from Kendrick's catalog? No. And I think Chroma Copia has a little bit of that, and I think a lot of that actually has to do with the sequencing. One of the things that I think there is a. I think there is a sequence on here that Would be. If you rearrange some of the song sequences, I think there's a more palatable record on here. But going from A Darling Eye to hey Jane, I Killed you and Judge Judy, that stretch I can see a lot of people tuning out on, I

[B]

think that's the stretch that got hard for me.

[A]

Exactly. But then he gets you back with Sticky, and then I think it picks up back with the Red. But he could have spaced those songs out. But then in my mind, I'm like, well, thematically. Well, one. I think he just wanted to make a record like this that wasn't so obviously a palatable. He wanted those personal stories to be featured right, not just buried at the end. And when you look at Conceptually, I think he prioritized some of the sequencing to kind of play into themes. Because, like, Darling Eye is about not being monogamous, kind of sleeping around or having relationships with a lot of people. But then he follows that with hey Jane, which is a pregnancy scare. So you get that dichotomy of, like, the kind of promiscuousness followed by a hey, Jane, which I think thematically works really well.

[B]

But Starly guy takes you on such a journey on this high. Then you're like. With hey Jane, you're like.

[A]

Right, exactly. Which I think it was an artful decision. Is it the most commercially appealing? Maybe not. But I think, yeah. Just revisiting all these choices were kind of stuck out a little bit more than when it first released. But, Justin, I want to bring you in here to see if you. Because you're more on Charles's End, where this kind of bounced off you. I'm curious how you feel about it now.

[C]

I wonder how much of that was just like, what was going. I remember October 2024 being a particularly busy, fraught period of my life. So maybe you have to accept some of that because this is all experiential and it's all in the context of our lives.

[A]

Right.

[C]

I never thought it was a bad record revisiting it. I think this is very clearly in the top half of Tyler's discography. Yeah, I might even. Depending on how it shakes out the rest of the season. I think it's probably like third or fourth in his discography for me.

[B]

Top five easily.

[C]

To me, it's a great record. I think it's an eight out of ten record. Eight and a half out of ten. It's phenomenally crafted.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

One of the things. And I was saying this to you before we began, Cole, so much of Tyler's career has been about the narrative. Right. Every album has had this narrative attached to it. The early albums, we know what the narrative was from there with these young upstarts, all the violent imagery, whatever. Then it was the transitional phase. Your cherry bomb. Then you get into, oh, Tyler's growing up, you know, Flower boy, Igor,

[B]

Call

[C]

me if you get lost. It's kind of like, well, this is. You know, it's a rap album. He's really going for it, and he's still showing some of that growth. He is showing more growth here. He is revisiting a lot of subjects that he's touched on. He is exploring new areas. The songwriting has improved. The production is phenomenal. There's a lot of growth here. But I think if you're not like, a Tyler head, if you're not just one of those people who's incredibly locked in, if you're just a person who likes Call me if you get lost. You following his career? You follow the singles. The narrative isn't as firm around this record, and I think that might be why it bounced off some people, including myself. It's a great record, though.

[A]

Okay, so should we dive into. Quizze me if you get lost.

[B]

Come on. All right, let's do it.

[A]

Okay, so, man, it's neck and neck.

[B]

Charles, I'm worried I went easier on this one because I felt like I was getting too different.

[A]

Let me update the listeners with the tally so far, because we're nearing the finale. You have seven total points for the season. I have 6.5. So these last two quizzes on these, we got three episodes left, including this one, so this is going to carry a lot of weight. Justin, do you have the prize picked out? I hope you do, because we're.

[C]

Yeah, I do. We've hit some snafus, but I think we'll be in for a fun little. Fun little journey in the finale.

[A]

All right, let's go. So I got three questions for you. You want to go first or you want me?

[B]

You want me? I'll go first.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

All right. Softball. To promote chromacopia, Tyler set up a trucking company that toured the west and east coast.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

In which state did fans deface the truck with graffiti?

[A]

Oh, I don't know. This, actually. That's cool.

[B]

Arizona.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah. No, in Arizona, the truck and, like, putting stickers on it, and I guess they had to go get it cleaned.

[A]

It's like, was it respectful, like a cool. Did you see the pictures or.

[B]

I saw the pictures. It was. I will say, I Think Tyler still has younger fans. So it was on the more respectful.

[A]

Okay, that's cool. Yeah, I like that. First I was like, oh, they vandalized it. But I'm like, wait, can you vandalize it? If you're a fan, it'd be kind of cool. Like, add to it. Okay, good question, though. All right, first question for you. Charles Tyler foreshadowed Chromo Copia's alter ego, St. Chroma, in what music video released almost two years before the album dropped. So the military suit, the green military suit is foreshadowed in one of his videos

[B]

two years ago. I'm not. I'm just gonna go cheating. No, I'm just going to Spotify.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Spot. I'm just looking at.

[A]

I'm gonna.

[B]

We're deducting a half point how I'm going to Spotify. I'm trying to see two years ago, but that two years ago would have been around. Would have been around. Like the call me if you get lost era.

[A]

I'm saying nothing.

[C]

There's no cell phones on who Wants to be a Millionaire? That's all I'm going to say.

[A]

I'm half point deducting.

[B]

This is not half point deduction. This fucked up. All right, Lumberjack, what was it?

[A]

Sorry. Not sorry. So we'll put the image up on the screen here. But the very first thing, as you're getting ushered into this museum that the video takes place in, you see the green military suit greeting the people that are coming into the museum. Pretty cool. That means he had this alter ego planned out years ahead. I would love, if I ever get the chance to interview Tyler, I have so many questions for him that no one's asked. Asked him. One of which would be, how do you develop your characters? How far out do you do this? How do you plan? Because one thing we haven't talked about, really, is how clean all his releases have been since really Cherry Bomb. In terms of, like, I announced the album on this date, and usually it's like two weeks and it's coming out on this date. I've got all my music videos made. I got my character ready, I got the merch ready. Like, everything's fucking, like, to the T organized. So when I see stuff like that Easter egg in a video that's released two years before the album drops, I'm like, fuck, how long far is he?

[B]

Didn't he say he started working on this album, like 2020?

[A]

I believe he was inspired in 2020. Conceptually, I'm not sure when he made

[B]

the music, but I think it was already. Because that trip that he took back to Hawthorne happened during COVID Covid, yeah. So, yeah. So.

[A]

But when did he do the alter ego? Is that inspired by the music? Is that totally separate? These are the questions I have for him. It'd be great.

[B]

Another softball.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Where did the inspiration for the character St. Chroma's hair come from?

[A]

That is a great question that I definitely used to know. Were they archived photos there?

[B]

Were there. I will say maybe.

[A]

Okay. I'm not gonna try to guess. Cause if I. Okay. Is that deserving of a half point?

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay, tell me then.

[B]

So back during COVID he told the story on Hot 97. He was taking a shower. Obviously you couldn't go get your hair cut. So he's talking about how all of his friends. It inspired, like, talking about his hair because it was growing. And he was saying when he was shampooing his hair, he kind of. It was like, spread in these weird ways in those. Com. And he showed the photos. He's like, I took a. I got out of the shower immediately, took a photo of it, and he was showing all of, like, Peter Rosenberg and Ebro. Like, I had envisioned, like, I'm gonna use this on the next album. Speaking towards, like, in 2020. He's like, all right, I'm gonna start making something like this. And this is the hair I'm using. And I thought that was cool.

[A]

Okay. What I'm remembering is people looking at that hair and then pulling archival photos of, like, African hairstyles from. Yeah. So I think I missed.

[B]

Because he brought that up where people. He was just like. He's like. I'm not saying that that wasn't in the suit, but he was just like. It was that moment of seeing myself with that hair.

[A]

Okay, cool.

[B]

Very cool. Come on.

[A]

Nice question. I love it. This is a great question. That is probably a softball, but it's a fun one. On the original Chromacopia vinyl, the test pressing, the song Thought I Was Dead contained a feature verse that did not make the final version of the album. Who is the featured artist on it

[B]

was definitely Playboi Carti.

[A]

Right? Yeah. Go. Great point for you, but have you heard it?

[B]

I. I don't. I think I might have heard it originally when it came out, but I haven't.

[A]

I didn't hear it until. Just.

[B]

Could you. Can you play a little?

[A]

We're gonna. I gotta queued up for you. Have you heard this, Justin?

[C]

I have not.

[B]

Look scared. I can't Kick it, I ain't got no legs Got me dashing out of. My grandma Feeling like an I can't miss double I clean let's go, fish.

[A]

Trying to move like us. Okay. In a vacuum Kind of sick. Does it fit the song, though?

[B]

Yes, it would have made the song, because I really like that song. I'm not gonna lie. Like, Schoolboy Q's verse on that is incredible. I love that song.

[A]

But why are you walking to the party with your butt pierced?

[B]

Now, can I add, what song didn't Tyler send a little bit of a jab at? Playboy.

[A]

Okay, this is all quote, unquote speculation, allegedly stuff, but it's pretty clear that Playboi Carti or his team threatened to sue, like, or cease and desisted that verse that didn't get approved or something. And then Tyler tweeted about it, said this friend that I used to make music with threatened to sue me over a verse, and so it got dropped. And that's pretty much the only candidate, I think, on the so. So you like the verse? You think it fits?

[B]

I think it fits. Playboy, you was wild. Playboy's team, you're wilding.

[A]

Justin, did you like. Did you think it fit the song? I'm kind of like. I liked it in a vacuum, but when Tyler comes back in, I'm just like, like, does this fit?

[C]

Yeah. I mean, look, I don't know. I sure. I don't have a lot. I don't have a lot to say about it. I mean, it was cut. That's fine. It was.

[A]

It.

[C]

It was there. That's also fine.

[A]

Okay, last question.

[B]

All right. Tyler was inspired by halftime band performances when he made Sticky Jackson State, ended up performing the song in a full circle moment.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Can you name Jackson State's band?

[A]

No. Come on, dude, that's not fair. What?

[B]

How is that not fair?

[A]

I think that's. That's too hard, dog.

[B]

If you're doing your research. Come on. These are on the wikis. I'm going shout out wolf.

[A]

Haley, I didn't read the wiki for this. I don't. You know, that's kind of too basic

[B]

for my sonic boom of the South.

[A]

Okay?

[B]

He even tweeted about it.

[A]

I know. I remember the performance. It was great, but I don't remember.

[B]

Did you remember what college it was?

[A]

No.

[B]

Oh, I was about to give you the cosmic. He knows. He's gonna know. It's Jackie State.

[A]

All right, well, wait, I could give you.

[B]

Do you want me to give you another one? You only have to get For a half point. If he's right. For a point.

[A]

Half point. Give me a half point. I'll take the deduction for a bonus chance.

[B]

The women singing the chorus on Sticky are Atlanta natives. There's three of them. Can you give me any of their names? You don't even.

[A]

I should. Okay, this is funny because I watched the making of Chromacopia where you see them in the booth.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So sick. Like, Touche. Tyler for finding them. Their textures and all their ad libs are so great. I made a mental note to look up who they were, and I just never did.

[B]

All right, so they're called Jasmine, Rachel Freeman, Layla, Simone Freeman, and Amari K. Jones. To your point. They make the song like. They are so incredible.

[A]

So good. Okay, last question for you. Okay. You got one full point so far. So you are pulling.

[B]

How am I winning the Tyler season? This is insane.

[A]

I know.

[B]

This is insane.

[A]

In the Darling Eye music video, Chase Infinity plays one of Tyler's many romantic interests. And throughout her appearance, her shoes are digitally blurred out. While Tyler himself has never confirmed, many believe this is paying homage to what classic music video. This is a fair question because even if you've never even seen the video, I think it's a gettable question because the image of a digitally blurred out shoe in a music video that Tyler would like and pay homage to.

[B]

Justin, drop it like it's hot.

[A]

Yeah. Did you remember this, Justin?

[B]

Okay, well, it took me a while because I was like, it's definitely Pharrell. It definitely has to be ice creams. And I was

[A]

perfect. Yeah. So we'll play both the clips here so you guys can see it. Damn, Charles.

[B]

That was a good question. That was a good question.

[A]

You just might have. I don't know if I can come back because you're now at 9. I'm at 6.5. Maybe I can. Okay, technically, if you get all your questions wrong next time and I got them. All right.

[B]

Nah, bro. I already. I already got my questions for. For our next episode. You're not getting them, I swear.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

All right. With that out of the way, do we want to start getting into nominations?

[A]

All right, so we're going to each nominate three.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

The end of the episode, we'll do our last song standing choice that goes to the finale. I. Okay. Knowing your tastes, I had circled a few songs that I think you're gonna. You're gonna pick If. If the. If the Charles is consistent. I thinking maybe you're going ratata. I think maybe you're going Thought I was dead. I'm thinking maybe you go, sticky. Am I wrong?

[B]

Is gay sticky, Dog? It's. Oh, you know me so well. That's my first nomination, bro. This was.

[A]

Okay. I texted you like, weeks ago. The question, like, we were talking a little. Talking a little bit about the album via text. And I was like, the real question is if Charles. Does Charles like sticky or not? Because this is a song that I think you could actually. I could see you coming in here and say, this shit's corny.

[B]

In my mind, I liked it when it dropped. And then I was like, being a little bit of a hater. I'm like, ah, it's whack. And then I put this on. I was like, oh, this. I think this might be in the running for one of his best produced songs. Like, yes. Before, like, for a minute, no drums.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

We have the whistling.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

The chants fade in. Tyler starts rapping. He's doing like ad libs. Like, he sounds like beef's a butthead. Talks about bubblegum. You get the bubblegum FX clapping. Then boom. The drums come in. Fucking incredible. And you're like, okay, okay. And as Glorilla comes in and Sexy Red comes in, like, it's. And you're like, well, where can the song go? Where can the song go? And Lil Wayne and the brass, it's too. It reminds me of like a Timbaland beat in a lot of ways. Where it's like you're taking a lot of elements, where the whistling is giving you this melody. You're having the claps. You have the Atlanta women in the back with the chants, and it's all giving you. It's like. It is like a cornucopia of sound. Like, this is what, production wise, this sounds like chromacopia. You can see the colors of being at an hbcu. But to have the restraint as a producer to be like, they think when the drums come in after a minute, that's the biggest moment. Guys, just wait. I have one more. Just the euphoria of that experience.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

This song is fucking incredible.

[A]

Okay, So I love this song. The gift. So gifting gorilla that moment. Because she gets the drum. She gets the drum. Like, that is to me, like, it's not maybe quite as level of like giving like a Rick Ross Devil in a devil, a new dress. Or like, you know, where it's like a four minute song and then. Or even like a push on Runaway. Like, you know, I mean, like, there's these moments that Kanye was like, probably the best at that of like saving a moment and giving it to a feature artist.

[B]

Giving them the perfect bed.

[A]

Exactly. Yeah. And so it has that. Some of that effect to me though, because her. I mean, her verse is like really sick anyways.

[B]

But I love Glorillo's verse on this.

[A]

She's so sick. It's like such a perfect. Like what he identified about this production and then who he brings in to this world is just like Chef's kiss. This is him being a. Not a. This is. Obviously he's a hands on the keyboard producer, but he's also a curator producer, a la Kanye. You know what I mean? What is going to make this not. What is not the obvious choice? What is the not complex choice? What is the interesting choice? What is the feature that only I'm going to hear on this? You know what I mean? And gives it to Glorilla, gives it to sexy.

[B]

Wrong with that motion, I begin to cut Sticky link.

[A]

What I love also about this is that he. Even though there's three featured verses, he's still the star of the show in a way that doesn't feel egotistical. Like he's trying not to take away, like we're, you know, sometimes like a feature feels insecure in terms of like, I don't want to get outdone on my own song. Yeah. This. He only gives four bars to each guest artist. You know, it's not even a full eight, which is a, you know, 16 is a traditional verse. 16 bars. Sometimes if you're gonna cut a verse short, you go eight. This is four per artist. So it's like. But that doesn't feel like it's done out of insecurity. That feels like that was the right choice for this song. To keep it always moving, to keep hitting that refrain of just the simplicity of the sticky letting the horn shine. And it's just always moving. I don't know, it's just self propelling the whole time.

[B]

It reminds me of. To me on this song. And it fits with the St. Chroma character. Aesthetically. He's like a military conductor of a band. By only giving the artist four bars, but then also making sure. All right, here's where the drums are gonna come in. Here's where the brass is gonna come in. Each moment we're rising, rising, rising. He's conducting the whole song. So to your point, Tyler doesn't have to be everywhere on this record, but he feels like he's anywhere in every single choice of the record.

[A]

And it's cool if you Watch the behind the scenes making of thing that he released. You could see him in the studio with the horn players, directing them, telling them like all those little riffs and stuff. Like it seems like he was there mouthing them and then they would do it for him, which is like so sick and just even. Yeah, I mean, there's. This is what I love about Tyler consistently evolving because what song sounds like Sticky and it's cataloged at this point? Yeah, not really a song that sounds like this. And he nails it first try, you know what I mean? It's not like he was. I mean, obviously he was working his way up as a producer consistently, but not in this sound territory. And this is what I mean about this record where it's like, I have an idea. I want to, you know, pay tribute to a marching band HBCU vibe. That's an idea that could get. That could go so fucking wrong in

[B]

the wrong hands, so fucking bad.

[A]

It could be so corny, you know, it could be. You know what I mean? Like, even if the intention is pure, like, I could see this going so wrong, but he's at a level production wise that he just fucking nails it.

[B]

And I also think he's. Tyler is always, I think, pushing against the perception of who he is as an artist. And he's very smart. He's a. He's a child of the Internet, like we all are. And I think you could label Tyler as like, oh, Tyler's for the fucking bros. The odd future swag bros. He would never collaborate with someone like Sexyy Red. And it's like, no. If you really look at his career, Tyler does all what he picks a feature. It's either going to be someone that influences him to such a degree that he's like honored like a Pharrell or a Wayne. But as he gets farther in his career, he's gonna pick someone like Sexyy Red and be like, as a producer, I know what makes her shine and I know that I could give her just the perfect place to just be sexy. Right. And sound amazing on the record.

[A]

It's the young boy from Call me. It's the 4:2 Doug from Call Me. That same idea.

[B]

And what I love is at this point, Tyler, even though he's only in his 30s, is really an elder statesman because for so long it was almost like he was begging pop and rap to come to him for people to rap over his shit. And now with Four2Dung or NBA YoungBoy or SexyY Red or Glorilla, it's like, you Have a class of musicians like, like I'd get on a Tyler record.

[A]

Come on.

[B]

So sticky. I feel like the listeners might be like you're being basic Charles, but if you listen to this song.

[A]

No, it's a. It's fucking great song.

[B]

To your point. There is. There are a thousand universes where this song goes wrong. And we live in the universe where this song went. Right?

[A]

I got some. This was almost a trivia question, and I didn't think it was realistic. But so going back to the test vinyl pressing version of these songs, on the album version, on his third verse, which we should acknowledge, this song takes a turn towards the end and turns into another song entirely, almost. There's enough through lines, instrumentation wise, that it works and you don't really think about it, but it transforms itself halfway through the song and it. I don't know if you know, but he is quote, the second half of the song is quoting this Young Buck, get buck song from 2007. Of course, get Em Buck.

[B]

Okay,

[A]

that horn line.

[B]

Also just like him honoring like Young Buck and then getting like Glorilla and being able, like a California kid. Being able to be like, nah. But we were listening to Southern rap too, is incredible.

[A]

Okay, but back to that. So his last verse on that part of the song, if you listen to the album version, he says, that's a bet. Skip the sex, Ride my face, break my neck. Fuck now, mood swinging like. And then he cuts himself off. He doesn't finish the bar. But if you listen to the test pressing version, here's what that sounds like. That line sounds like, Okay, so he bleeps out the name, but he says, fuck now. Mood swinging like on the jet. So do you. Can you take a guess on who he would be drawing this metaphor? Mood swinging like blank on the jet. And what he'd be referencing,

[B]

I have no idea.

[A]

It's really funny, actually. Okay, so personal question, Charles. Have you seen Drake's penis leak?

[B]

I've Lucky I remember when it leaked. Luckily, I have not. I. I skipped that.

[A]

Okay. Unfortunately, I was scrolling Twitter one time and I saw. And I saw it. But if you. If you look at the video, he is on it. Drake is on a jet, allegedly. He's never confirmed this was him and it's not AI, but his nether regions are rather large and they swing. He's holding his own manhood and it's kind of swinging around. So he's saying mood swinging like Aubrey on the jet, allegedly.

[B]

That would be a very Tyler thing to quote. And this would Be the second time in history.

[A]

Justin's looking it up right now.

[B]

Are you looking up Drake's penis on Spotify? Wi Fi?

[C]

How could you do that to me?

[B]

This is the second time that Tyler has basically memed Drake. Because in my research, I didn't realize.

[A]

Oh, he was the.

[B]

Yeah, the look back one. Earl was like, no. I remember the day like Tyler took the screenshot and posted it. I wonder if Tyler and Drake have a good, good relationship at this point.

[A]

I know it feels a little rocky with the Camp Flognaw thing. I don't know. Who knows? But these rhymes, Hell yeah. Who knows? Okay. Sticky, Great choice. Also, Wayne's verse, even though he gets. I just have to shout this out. Even though he gets four bars, he raps 22 total words, five of which only five of which do not have a rhyme partner. So if you break down his verse, maybe I can share the screenshot here. But I highlighted all the rhyme patterns and 70, pretty much 77% of his words rhyme, which is so cool. I love his verse. And it's like he just. Every Tyler feature or every Wayne feature.

[B]

I just love Tyler because any single time Tyler calls, he's just like, all right, man. I'm gonna give him. Putting this out there before you put your nominations. I think it would be incredible if Lil Wayne just let Tyler produce. Like, let Tyler be his Mannie Fresh.

[A]

An ep. Just give us an ep, dog.

[B]

Five, six songs. I think it would go. It'd be so incredible.

[A]

Yeah. All right. My first nomination might be. Do you have any guesses of where I might be going?

[B]

I think we're going to share one, so maybe like, let's not do that one.

[A]

Okay. What's the most col bait song on this album?

[B]

Oh, there's a lot of col bait songs on Chromicopia. I'm not going to lie. So to me, Take your mask off. Is Colby tomorrow? Is Colby.

[A]

Yeah, tomorrow. Okay, I'll tell you this tomorrow. I'm not gonna nominate, but it has maybe my favorite Tyler lyric of all time, which is the opening line where he says, my mother's hands don't look the same.

[B]

I do. I don't like tomorrow, but that is a great line.

[A]

That line is. It's is so perfect. It's poetry. It's so beautiful. This episode is brought to you by Sierra Nevada. Hazy Little Thing. If you saw the band when they played at the bar or stopped mid festival to look at the stars Then you're ready to embrace the haze with Hazy Little Thing. Citrusy smooth and easy to drink it pairs with nights that don't need a script. Brewed with the purest ingredients for finest quality There's a reason it's America's best selling hazy ipa. Embrace the haze with Sierra Nevada hazy little thing. Enjoy responsibly.

[B]

All right, so I'm gonna go. You're. It's. It's definitely. Take your mask off.

[A]

Honorable mention. Take your mask off.

[B]

So where are you going?

[A]

It was on the border for me for a long time, Noid, but my number one pick on this album is like,

[B]

Pitch me on it.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Did you look at it?

[A]

Did you look this. Did you look up the Spotify streams for this album at all for each song? Well, I kind of just buried the lead there, but would you believe me if I said like him is the most streamed song on this album by, like, a long shot? 800 million streams versus the next closest is sticky at 536 million streams.

[B]

This is the song go like crazy on, like, TikTok or something.

[A]

This. I don't know. I'm not really on TikTok like that, but this is, like, one of his biggest songs in his career, which is kind of crazy to think about, right?

[B]

I totally disregarded this song because every single time I hear it, I'm like, not for me.

[A]

Okay. I had a feeling you'd go there.

[B]

Wait, what?

[A]

You're gonna. You're gonna. Okay, I'm gonna. But I'm gonna do my best to sell you on it because as part of this exercise, I think it is actually important to try to understand why this song is resonating. Because I think if we're going by streams, Al, just pull it up real quick on, at least on Spotify. This, I think, is his third biggest song. Go see you again, Earthquake by streams. And like him or no new magic wand has 900 million, but it's been out for five more years than the song. So I think it's safe to say, like him might go down at this moment as his third biggest song. Okay. It's fucking crazy. Isn't that crazy?

[B]

I. I am realizing that, like, my Tyler fandom is so moved from the. The average Tyler fan.

[A]

Yeah. Okay. I feel like I need to do an episode on this because it's like. That is so fascinating to me. But I'm gonna walk you through the song somewhat briefly. But I do want to walk through kind of the whole song to try to, like, because I think this is, like, a really important song for Tyler. I think it is. It is a Guard Almost might surpass Garden Shed as his most important emotionally emotional song. So it begins with. So the premise of the song essentially, is about his father. And the idea is, like, we hear at the beginning of the track, his mom saying how much he looks like his father. And this kind of then fuels the concept of the song, which is like, do I look like him? And as we know, studying Tyler to this point, this idea of the absent father has been a running motif and theme in his entire discography. We could kind of track his maturation as a person through his. The way he communicates about his father through his discography. But so emotionally and dynamically, this song is like a masterpiece. It begins with his mom saying how much Tyler looks like his father.

[B]

Every time I look at you, I swear to God, n. You got that nigga feet, you got that nigga body, you got that nigga long arms, fingers and shit.

[A]

Flat feet, big also, like, one. Think about that dynamic. Think about as a kid hearing that you look like a guy that you never met.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And thinking your entire. Most of your life that he abandoned you. Which is really important to remember when we get to the end of this song. And what I love about this entire song, and especially this moment, is that this is scored with a really simple, childlike piano. So let me just play the opening moment while we hear. It almost, to me, feels like a kid. Little kid at the piano plunking around. We're also getting, like, minor diminished chords here. So how's this kind of, like, childlike quality, but it's also kind of. Of dark. And so when you're hearing his mom say that over these piano chords, it's like. It's a. It's a really brilliant scoring moment in terms of, like, evoking a certain emotion about hearing those things as a kid. And in a way that I think implies. Yeah. This complication of this dynamic for him as someone that grew up without his father. So that kind of sets the stage. And then from here, the whole song evolves, like, beautifully in terms not only emotionally or not only musically, but emotionally. So we get. Tyler enters the song, and it's just him at the piano playing chords. And it's almost like we're like voyeurs spying on him, singing at his house, just playing chords. I think it's probably the most vulnerable moment in his entire catalog. Maybe aside from a garden shed, she

[B]

said that I make expression like him. My legs to my shoulders and my chin.

[A]

But we've never really heard just Tyler and his singing voice bare Just at the piano, at the opening of the song, he's just singing. She said that. I make expressions like him. My legs to my shoulders, my chin like him. My waist like him. Setting up this, you know, essentially outlining the theme of the song here at the start. So again, we go from this childlike, vulnerable intro with his mom to him alone at the piano singing in a very vulnerable voice. And then he sings the hook. And this is the important part about this song. You think it's a song about Tyler's father. It's actually a song about Tyler's mom. He's singing directly to his mom throughout this entire song. Mama, I'm chasing a ghost. I don't know who he is. Mama, I'm chasing a ghost. To me, that mama is doing so much emotional work. If you pair it to what I'm talking about in the intro and the childlike chords, it evokes a vulnerability calling out to your mother. You know what I mean? And so from this point on in the song, Tyler is speaking to his mom directly. And just to highlight the composition of this. Of this song, it passes what I call the piano test. A lot of times when I'm trying to, like, wrap my head around a great song, I'm like. The quickest way for me to see how sound the writing is is to just play the melody and the chords, bare bones. And so when you play just the melody and the chords, bare bones, it's very beautiful. It works just on piano alone. Yeah, it's beautiful. So even if we're hearing Tyler singing, not. He doesn't have the greatest voice. We've talked about that. But there's a vulnerability, there's honestness, there's a sincerity in his voice paired with great chords, great melody. It's just fundamentally sound as a song. And then from here, it breaks into. So to this point, about a minute and a half in, we've just heard Tyler at a piano. And then one of my favorite moments of the song is when he switches from piano into the full arrangement. And how he gets there is just so smooth. And then introduces this guitar. And if you listen in the background, you're going to hear what, to my ear, sounds like a theremin. Do you know what a theremin is? Like the voice, the instrument you play with your hand?

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

So listen for that in the background. So it. To my. My brain. Theremin is traditionally used to. I mean, it dates back to, like, the 30s or something, but it's always been associated with extraterrestrial. This was like the go to instrument for aliens or ghosts. And in the song, he's singing about a ghost. I'm chasing a ghost, which is my father. So, you know, I love this kind of shit where the instrumentation is kind of reflecting what he's singing about. Do you wanna jump in, or am I cooking? Is this compelling?

[B]

No, you're cooking it's. Cause you're pointing out what I love about the song first, where it's like, I love the melody. I love how he's playing. It almost reminds me of a Stevie Wonder song in a lot of ways. Why I wouldn't pick it is just because I was like, oh, Tyler's voice doesn't sell it for me. That is the only knock I have against the song lyrically and. And production. And his playing is beautiful.

[A]

Okay. So indulge me as I continue.

[B]

No, no, no, no. You're cooking.

[A]

Okay. Okay. So second verse, full instrumentation. So again, we're gradual build from solo. Very bare bones. Solo piano more fleshed out now, full arrangement, second verse. He's singing directly to his mom. You gave me love and affection Attention, protection How could I ever miss something that I never had? I would never judge you because everything worked out without him. When you hear it just like that spelled out, and I prefaced it with he's talking to his mom. It seems pretty clear, but forever in my head, and I think I could speak for probably a lot of listeners. I always thought he was talking to his dad. I would never judge you. And maybe he partially is, but it's very clear he's talking to his mom here, and I'm not gonna. So just keep that in mind as we continue. You. He's speaking to his mom almost as if, like, he's forgiving her. And it's kind of like, well, why. Why are you praising your mom in a song about your absent father? Well, makes sense on the surface. Like, you did the best with your circumstances, but he is. He is prefacing you and foreshadowing the bomb that drops at the end of this song. So again, just to accent the build of this song, the second hook, he does the great Tyler thing where if you don't like his voice, well, now he's got Lila Young singing with him to kind of smooth things out. So let's do this. He's got the guitar now, theremin things, you know, he's dynamically building it. He's got backup vocals now, and so he's continuing this build, build, build. And then I should also point out the songs in 6, 8. It kind of has this, like, ballad feel. Like it almost sounds like a song that belongs in a musical or something. Okay. And then we get to, like, the big outro. So, again, this whole song is a build. And then he drops a new synth riff and he sings these kind of what feel like almost like freestyle. Doesn't feel like a traditional verse. He's kind of, like, singing over this big climax.

[C]

Here.

[A]

He's singing, I decided anything that lives inside of you I would never lie to you again. Speaking to his mom. You ain't ever got a lie to me. Very important. You ain't got to lie to me. I'm everything that I've strived to be. So do I look like him? Do I look like him? And then Tyler's final line is, I don't look like him. Which I think there's a number of ways you could. You could take that. But in the context of the song, it seems like he's saying, I've been fine without my father. I don't need to look like him, because I am my own individual and I turned out fine thanks to my mother. Right. And we get a huge, big climax at the end. Musically, we think we have hit the emotional and musical peak of this song, but the real peak is the post outro, kind of the epilogue of this song, where everything drops out and his mom returns to the song, and we hear this.

[B]

It was my fault. Not yours, not his.

[A]

It was my fault.

[B]

I'm sorry. You know, it was my.

[A]

Not him.

[B]

Because he always wanted to be there for you.

[A]

Getting chills. So she says here, it was my fault. I'm sorry. It's my fault. He always wanted to be a father to you. I fucked up. I take ownership of that. And I'm sorry for my choices. He's a good guy. Don't hold it against him because it was my fault. And then she ends the song saying, just, you know, forgive me. Yep. And what Tyler has done throughout this entire song is forgive his mother. And so when we hear. That's what those verses, I think are about, is him saying, I would never judge you for this thing that I know you now did, which was hide my father from me. Yeah. Just emotionally, I'm getting choked up just even thinking about that dynamic, especially doing this exercise and seeing his emotions about his father expressed in his music to this point. This, to me, this outro is like. It's like a great movie, which at the end of the story, multiple character arcs are resolved in one event. And so, to me, this outro resolves Tyler, forgives his mother. That's resolving his mother. Tyler, I think, absolves his dad as the villain.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And Tyler finds himself, I think, finds closure in forgiving his mother and presumably his father. Because now he knows that it actually was his father did want to be in his life. So you get three resolutions emotionally with just this one outro. And the way that he sets that up, the way that he's speaking to his mom about a song about his dad throughout the entire song is, I think, just such a master class in, like, again, to make a film comparison. This is what the greatest, like, screenwriters do, right? Where you're taking an issue that is really complex dynamically. There's a way that this can be told where he's singing directly to his father or whatever. Like, there's a number of ways you can tell this story. But he found the like. Like, the most interesting way where he again, absolves and resolves all three of those characters, which are his parents, in this one. One song and one outro. And I think the way he even scores that outro, how everything. It comes to a huge climax. You think you're done with the song, and then, boom. Drops the bomb. And, like, I don't know. It's just, like, really powerful moment. Maybe the most powerful moment, emotionally, in his entire catalog. So that's why I picked, Like Him Dog.

[B]

I am impressed, as always. I do. I 100% agree with you in terms of this probably being among the most important songs he's ever released. And it's also, when you look at it in terms of the album, to me, he's touching on. Cause it's such a mind fuck to think about where his mom is saying that he looks like his father. And throughout the album, he is coming to terms with his hair and what he's done with his hair or taking off the mask. And in each song, you can see him trying to cobble together just a through line of, like, to forgive my mom and to forgive my dad is the last thing I need to do to kind of, like, finally forgive myself and be this fully fleshed version. And I was like, oh, to think that the kid who made Bastard and Goblin would ever get to this point where he finally reaches forgiveness is just. That's an arc that's also incredible because I'm like, he's still in his 30s. Like, that's an arc that you would expect from, like, what. How old was Jay Z when he dropped? 444.

[A]

Yeah. In his 50s. I think.

[B]

You know what I mean? And Tyler's doing this. What, when? I think he dropped this when he was 33, maybe 34.

[A]

Yeah, something like that.

[B]

So, yeah. Just incredible.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I'd also say just add on. And I'm kind of shocked that you haven't made this comparison, Cole, to the Mr. Morale point of this. The song that this reminds me the most of any artist catalog in this genre is Mother Eye Sober.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And it's just. It. It taps into a lot of that, like, the way this trauma gets passed down from generations. And I. I think it's a brilliant song. That's kind of all I wanted to discussion that.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, even the comparison of, like, hearing Whitney on the end of that song, hearing his children, like, we're bringing, like. And we hear his mom, like, we're brought, you know, right into the world. And it's like on an album in which his mom is propped up as this guiding light figure, it has that almost, like, divine quality to it. But then you get a song like this, and he just really humanizes her, you know what I mean? And it's like, not only did she raise, Tyler did her best and all these things. Yeah. She also has this stain or whatever it is that he ends up forgiving, which is just really beautiful. And again, yeah. I mean, to your point, this is the guy that made Bastard title track starts with him talking about his dad to a counselor and being really angry about it. And then to get it almost encapsulates in his entire arc in these two Bastard title track to hear is crazy.

[B]

And it's interesting because for an artist, rightfully so, who was. His early lyrics were so misogynistic, and his relationship with women and how he detailed them was just so abrasive. And for him on this record, because earlier in the record, he's talking about the experience of accident, of being promiscuous, accidentally getting someone pregnant, or rapping from her perspective and realizing, like, okay, it's not just that I might be afraid to have a kid. What is my partner feeling? And using that in the beginning of the record to foreshadow the fact that, like, okay, I can now see the version of what my mom and dad were going through when they were about to have me. And if he ended up having the kid, being like, oh, this cycle continued, where, oh, something happened that is just like, am I gonna stay? Am I gonna go? Yeah.

[A]

Even if he chose to stay in that hypothetical scenario, if they ended up having the kid, at least he would know that there was a thought process where he did not want to stay, and he can maybe empathize more with people that don't stay. Not saying that's like justifiable or correct, but it's like he's had the thought he was put in those shoes and he saw one way that his life could, like, you know what I mean? So. Yeah. All right, that's enough.

[B]

Really, really quick. Why do you think he did not include mother on the original. On the original project? Because he has said that that is kind of like. That's like a load bearing song. And it wasn't until I listened to that song where I was like, yeah,

[A]

but does it work as a song? It's a. It's kind of messy. It's very sentimental and beautiful in its own way, but it's kind of messy.

[B]

And I do. Now that you've broken it down, I'm like. Like him does it.

[A]

Does all the work, I think better. Yeah.

[B]

And less obvious.

[A]

Yeah. Okay, this is. Let's bring some levity into this conversation because this is the only decision Tyler, the creator, would do on his most emotional and vulnerable song. He drops a Baby Keem sample right before the big. You know what I'm talking about.

[B]

Which one?

[A]

Okay, let me play it for you. Right before the big climax. Huh?

[B]

Oh, that's sick. I didn't even realize.

[A]

Baby Keem. Why is that there?

[C]

I don't know.

[B]

What is it with Baby King always being there when want to get super. The therapist about it? They're like, you know who would be great on this song? Baby Keem.

[A]

It doesn't take me out of the moment, but I'm like, who other than Tyler would drop a Baby Keem ad lib right before the most emotional part of the song? Okay, is it time for a quick break and then come back with more

[B]

break and then let's get back to it.

[A]

All right, let's do it. All right, Charles, you picked sticky. I picked like him. Where are we going for round two?

[B]

We should bring some levity, as you were saying, to this. I'm gonna go with a song that I've listened to so much doing this exercise, and dog, I'm just gonna play it. I think this is one of his best songs. Best hooks ever.

[A]

So good. So good.

[B]

All right. Where do I even start?

[A]

Okay, just for the record, this is on my list too. So we overlapped here.

[B]

Okay. Let's just talk it out, because this is why we're buds and friends. Because what I realized, Both love this song. I was like, T0 Touchdown has taken a lot of flat.

[A]

I love TJ Touchdown. You and Justin, not so much. I've gotten some shit about my t0 touchdown love from you.

[B]

At one point I was like, t0 touchdown is interesting. And then the industry just. They were. They were serving up a lot of teaser, almost too much. He was on Drake Records, he was on Tyler Records. And also, I think he put. He put a lot of his money in the pop punk basket. And I was like, that was the wrong. That was the wrong move. Am I. Am I being a hater? Justin being like. There was a moment where T Zone was a little overexposed.

[C]

Yeah, it's. It's funny because I think that including Tizo a couple years earlier is kind of a signifier of the time, but this actually 2024 feels a little bit past peak Tizo time.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So Tyler just likes working with Tizo. So.

[A]

Yeah. Second album in a row because he was on Call Me See, but Call Me, it make.

[C]

It makes sense from, like, an industry perspective because they were pushing tizo really hard. 2024 was a little more quiet out

[B]

here for Tizo, but Tizo, Tizo and Tyler sound great on this. This duet is amazing. It is the most effortless, in my opinion, I've ever heard Tyler singing. He is so confident on this record. It is like if Charlie Wilson was just the big homie and the legend who was, like, really giving him. I do think, like, Tyler was looking at singers like that and really just looking at their confidence and how they attacked the mic. And when I listened to Darling Eye once again, it's not perfect singing, but he knows exactly what the song needs. It's never too much. It takes you on a journey, I will have to say between. There's something with the, ah, Future Gang, where, dog, you got a little money, you get your 30s, or you just make songs like, oh, monogamy, fuck it. And I'm just like, you know, if I had as much money as you and as much access to just, like, bottles and fucking around, like. Yes. But sometimes it's like, very funny that I never thought Tyler would. Because the era of RB that Tyler is interested in was the, like, Dog D, These RB singers were dirtbags. They. They just. They. The reason they were singing in the rain today, Shoddies, was because they was fucking up constantly. And it's so funny that this is Tyler's version of that type of record.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But with his own spin on it because he's just talking about, like, damn, monogamy I don't know. Like, it's just like.

[A]

But this is what I'm saying about this record though. It's like in the wrong hands, a song that is essentially going against monogamy could go very wrong. Like, more times than not, it probably goes wrong.

[B]

Especially Tyler.

[A]

And this is. But what he does, it's like lighthearted, it's fun. You see, the music video is perfect for this where he has all these different iconic women that he's kind of bouncing around towards and it's just like it feels good. And yeah, to your point about what I didn't realize about this song is like, it's like a 2000 era R& B song where it has the rapper and the singer.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

But he's doing both parts. If you listen to the first verse of this song, we'll play it here. He's singing like the woman's part. When he's saying, I got a problem, I don't know if I can shake. They want to tie me down. When he's singing in a super high falsetto voice, that's the woman's part. And then his second verse is the Ja Rule part where his first verse was Ashanti. You know what I mean?

[B]

It's pretty as shit. Feels safe in the grove Big boy when I drive Love him All for different reasons at the same damn time. See, monogamy, that shit is not for me.

[A]

He's like. He's doing both parts and it's like so cool.

[B]

I'm so glad you pointed this out because I had the same exact thought where even if you look at how he is rapping on this, it is your cliche 2000s rap verse where the guy is on the R and B song. So he kind of wants to be smooth, but it's very jokey as well. Almost like he's spitting game. But to your point, I'm like, tyler, you're also on the hook. It lands in this weird way, but it works.

[A]

Yeah, it works. Yeah, he's dynamic enough. He goes super low for the rap verse and he's singing mid tones for the cook and he's singing falsetto for the quote unquote woman part.

[B]

And falsetto sounds good on this.

[A]

Yeah, whatever key this is, I didn't look it up. But like, this is a great key for him. It suits his voice really well.

[B]

It suits it perfectly. Like, darling, I kept listening, I was like, dog, this is a fucking groove. And even in certain interviews you could tell he's feeling himself because he's like yo, at this point, I feel like I'm better at the R and B hooks and records than I am at the rapping. And I was like. If I think about it, his biggest songs at this point are the ones where he is, like, singing. And I was like, oh, that's such an interesting place for him to end up as an artist.

[A]

It's, again, one of the many surprises in his career. Who would have thought the kid that made Bastard would be the singing on billions of streams of songs? It's crazy. Okay, did you look up the samples or the interpolations for the song at all?

[B]

Very, very briefly.

[A]

Justin, maybe you can chime in here too. Let me see if. So the percussion. The drums and percussion on this song are. I don't think they're direct samples, but they're definitely like, I am recreating exactly this. Listen to the drums on the original song, and then we'll try to. Try to see if you can play. The bass drum and kick. Here. I'll play the. So Q Tip. We talked about this last episode. Q Tip vibrant thing, which we know a song Tyler loves. So I don't think. I don't know if he samples the drums directly or recreates them, but that's. If you. Now we can go back to this.

[B]

But now that you're. You pointed out, like, this would be a record that Q Tip would rap on. Now that I'm like, damn.

[A]

But that also contributes to, like, the, you know, early 2000s vibe of the song. So we. Okay, now do you hear the mouth clicks?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So that comes from. Of course. Which, again, again, is not a direct sample, but he's definitely. It's the same rhythm. Little buried in the mix, but they're there. So he's essentially combining Vibrant Thing with Drop it like it's hot.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Doing the R B duet. It's like. And then it's like. It feels very mod.

[B]

It almost reminds me, too, of, like, Forel and Snoop songs. Like, Beautiful. Like, he's doing the Pharrell part, and it's so good.

[A]

I mean. Yeah. The other notes. I think I have one. Okay, let me quickly passes the piano test. It's so good. Like, crazy how these songs so, like, work so well.

[B]

Oh, this is so beautiful.

[A]

Beautiful.

[B]

This song is so buttery. It's mush.

[A]

But as a songwriter, this is, like, the quick test where it's like. Is the songwriting sound, Is the melody and chords together? Are they. It's perfect. So good. This is Tyler, as, you know, as a singer, songwriter, in A true, truest sense of the word. And then. Yeah, the only other thing I had, I guess, was like, the bridge is incredible on this. Okay, well, since you brought it up. Straightforward pop song. Essentially the same chord progression the entire time. Also, for my. Any music theory nerds out there, we talked about Tyler taking the chords from God Bless the Child and rapping over them on Boredom on Flower Boy. That was him imitating essentially just like, quote unquote, ripping off a pre existing chord progression and making his own song over it. Yeah. By the time we get to Chromacopia, he's taking the. He's taking the lessons of that song. Specifically what is called a 2, 5, 1 chord progression. It's the centerpiece of jazz music. And not now. He's not just kind of copy pasting. He's incorporating that classic turnaround both in. Like him is based on a 2, 5, 1 chord progression. And it's the turnaround in this song too. So in my compositional brain, I'm like, oh, he's grown as a songwriter and a, you know, chord composer, where he's not just mimicking. He's now incorporating, taking those lessons and then putting in his own original twist on it. You know what I mean? Just again, shows the arc of his compositional kind of growth. But since you brought up the bridge, one chord progression the entire time until the bridge where he does a full step modulation where it's just like, you don't have to do this, but he does. So I'll point it out.

[B]

I get different things from different people.

[A]

Modulate. We've now modulated a full step above the original key. And then he's going to now perform this part of the chorus in this new key. Higher key. So here is. And then he modulates back to the original key here for the end of the song. So is this like even in a breakdown as.

[B]

Even when he got. But to hit. To do it. And then the key fall. It is such a good, like.

[A]

Well, one. Okay, one. The chord. The key falls down to its original goes down. And then all that whole melody keeps falling down, repeated each one sequence lower each time. So you're getting the falling. That's just what I'm saying.

[B]

Like that like Pharrell would do back in the day.

[A]

That's what I'm just saying, like, technically, if you. That's why I'm so high on this album is this like. Technically, it's like. Like this where my brain's like, well, this is one of his best works just on a technical Level, you know what I mean? Because he's doing this kind of stuff. He was getting to these moments throughout his career, but this is just where everything is just melding and it sounds effortless. It's not calling attention to itself. It's all within, you know, the structure of the song. But then it's like if you're listening for it, he's going to give you that modulation, you know what I mean? So I'm glad we overlapped. And it's just like, this song is just good. It's just. It passes the gut check of just like this is. This feels good to listen to. It's on brand consistent thematically. Like, what's not to love?

[B]

All right, so what's your third and

[A]

last nomination tomorrow, honorable Benchen. Love that song. Take youe Mask off was close, okay. But ultimately I went with my heart, which is what I've been doing this entire series, which for the third pick of my nominations is just go with my heart and my heart is telling me. Balloon. Featuring Dochi.

[B]

All right, dog. All right. I can't believe we're sharing another song. Balloon is so incredible.

[A]

This is another song. I thought you were definitely gonna come in here and just on.

[B]

Wait, Really? I love Balloon. This was like before I really fell into With Darling Eye. I was just like, I gotta pick Balloon.

[A]

Really?

[B]

It's the reason I find it beautiful is like, before this, you could not really tell me. Like, I know Tyler had children, but I was like, I don't know who they were. And like, Dochi to me is the, like, it's beautiful to see. In the same way that, like, Wayne to Tyler, you can see that connection.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Tyler having this moment with Dochi. Dochi has an incredible verse. I think she likes, like out wraps Tyler. It is just the beat is incredible. The. The Luke sample is incredible. It's just pure unadulterated hip hop. It's once again like the production is. Is so good.

[A]

It's so good.

[C]

This is my favorite song on the record.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This song was controversial when it came out.

[B]

Why?

[A]

People thought his song was corny.

[C]

I. I love this.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

I do not care.

[A]

I thought both of you might just.

[B]

Can you start play a little bit of it? I love this beat so much.

[A]

That's what's interesting about the song. It's like there's not actually a beat. There's no drums. Really. Well, there is, but we ain't talking

[B]

to your dumb ass. You could be a millionaire still be a bum ass boy I've been in the dream.

[A]

Did you look up the sample for this?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So it's kind of a spiritual cousin to thank you off Igor, because he's. What is the Japanese genre? I don't know if this qualifies for it, but it's a Japanese artist. This is city pop. Okay. So sick. But again, in classic Tyler fashion, he takes cues. You know, the song is fundamentally shaped around that sample, but he brings so much original elements to it that it just becomes like. It doesn't stick out as like. Like that sounds like a sample. It actually sounds like of Tyler's world.

[B]

Yeah, the little. This is the weird little Gremlin synth.

[A]

Okay. Yeah. Another thing about the song, which I thought was cool is so those vocal samples, I don't know if you guys recognize them, but they come. Both of the vocal samples, when he says, I want to rock and the hay come from 2 Live Crew. So Luke Skywalker, let me play the original here.

[B]

Don't stop pop that pussy. Let me see your doodoo pram.

[A]

And the iron rock is in there too. And then there's another sample song's so sick by also Luke Skywalker. Uncle Luke from 2 Live Crew from it's your birthday 1994. That. Ah, but hey, that's also in. You hear it. And what I love about this, I don't know what came first or second, but you have two Live Crew samples. Iconic, historic group from Florida. And then he brings do on also from Florida, who throughout her verse is repping Florida the whole time. So I'm like, that's pretty cool. I don't know.

[B]

It is. I. I can't believe you thought I would hate this song. I feel like this song. Well, I could see why people thought maybe the song was corny because obviously the don't stop sample, the 2 live crew sample. French Montana, like, used it like, what, probably like a decade before. This song has been sampled numerous times. So it's like no one really owns it at this point. But to me, this song is just like a freight train. It has so much energy. And to me, like I said, this album is a perfect synthesis of everything that Tyler had been working towards, which is being able, to your point, to be Ashanti and Ja Rule on the same song, to have love for Southern rap and old samples and California and bringing up not only his peers, but people that are coming up as well and giving them a moment where I'm like. It almost reminds me of a Nicki Minaj on Monster. Obviously it did not have that impact, but, like, laying a Perfect bed for a rapper and showing what makes them so incredible. And Dochi has that theatricality that Tyler has always had. I just think it's a perfect record.

[A]

Were you gonna say, Justin?

[C]

I was just gonna say that Cole's out here. Like, I don't know if you guys recognize the sample. As if we didn't live through pop that. Yeah, Cole, where do you stand on French Montana's pop? That.

[A]

What do you guys think?

[B]

You don't like that song?

[A]

It's. It's from the era that I just. I'm not a big fan of that era. I'm sorry.

[B]

Love that era.

[C]

Love that era.

[A]

Okay, well, to your point about Dochi, like, he definitely identified something he was on. He was early on Dochi. So this song came out. So my interview with Dochi dropped in October, the same month as this, but the interview was before this came out. And Balloon was kind of the start of Dochi's. Just what made Dochi pop off so hard was one. She came out with a great album, but it was a slow burn. It was the Tyler moment. It was the tiny desk moment. It was the Stephen Colbert moment. She just kept having, like, moment after moment after moment, and this was among them. But Tyler, to identify Dochi, to get her on this song to where it was going to release during this, you know, during when it did, obviously he identified something in her early. It wasn't like she had her moment. And then he's like, let me tap into that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He saw what I think a lot of us saw in Docchio. And I didn't think that the Dochi explosion was going to happen as quickly as it did, nor did I think it was going to. I didn't think she was going to win a Grammy. But all that to say, like, to your point about him identifying features, identifying what makes a sexy red special, just knowing how to bring the best out of an artist to give him again, give him this red carpet was perfect. And, like, to Dochi's credit, you said, like, this is like classic hip hop. And I agree in the sense that, like, one. Well, Dochi just understood the assignment because she does the classic thing where it's like, I'm not going to give you a feature that is just maybe a leftover or something. I write quickly, like, no, I'm actually going to listen to what you're saying in the song and then bounce off and bounce off of it. So if you go through her verse, she's like, kind of calling back to a lot of the things that Taz. And then, I mean, talk about a show stealer. And you said Cardi's verse on Earthquake was one of the best rap verses of the 21st century. I think air this bitch out like a queef is one of the best.

[B]

I love that one.

[A]

Was the best iconic moments of the 21st century. It's so good. But she's playing off of. He says, I air this butch out like balloon. And to just have that classic back and forth where she's riffing on that. You know what I mean? And, like, elevating the line and then Tyler allowing her to do that again, like.

[B]

And even a small choice as the beat, the propulsion is going and going. It's moving. It's moving and moving. Her delivery is getting so crunchy. And her voice, she's like. She's contorting it and it's becoming more monstrous. That's just something especially early in an artist's career. That's what separates you from every other rapper dropping music. When you. To your point, you know the assignment, you know who Tyler is, and just. She attacks the way Dochi attacks this beat is just.

[A]

She's hungry too. You know what I mean?

[B]

You could tell she was hungry.

[A]

It's like, I respect Tyler. This is a blessing. Like, I'm gonna make the most of this.

[B]

It reminds me of. Obviously, Dolce and Tyler are closer than age, than Tyler was to Wayne or Connie, but it reminds me of a Smuckers, where it's just like, you could tell when Tyler gets in a room with people who inspired him, that it just, like, I want to do something special. And I feel like you could. I love when an artist like Adochi could be like, all right, this is a Tyler song. I have to show people.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Why I'm here. So, yeah. I'm.

[A]

One last thing. Just because it was kind of a mind breaker for me, because I was like, I've noticed. You don't really notice until you pay attention. There's, like, no drums on the song, right? And I was like, are there drums? I feel like I hear some percussion stuff, but, you know, there's never, like, a solid, like, beat that comes in. So I took. I. I stemmed out all the tracks so you can, like, essentially put it through a processor and it'll isolate drums, isolate that, all that. So let me. I want to isolate the drums for you because they're pretty cool. Although I'm going to play the original first because they're kind of buried. So here's what the original mix is. So you can hear the clapping, can hear some elements, but when you. When you isolate it, there are actual drums, and it. They're really, really cool. I wish they were louder, actually.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

So sick. It's almost got the sticky vibe to it a little bit.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I was just like, damn. I mean, it's Super Neptunes also, but I just thought that was cool. I had to.

[B]

I can't believe we agreed on two.

[A]

Two songs. I know. That's kind of crazy. Do we need to shout out anyone else? I mean, like, Noid. I love Noid.

[B]

Noid. Noid was in contention. I just felt a. Gonna be honest, I love when rappers, you know, rap about whatever is on the top of their mind. I think Tyler's at the perfect place in his career to rap about this. It is hard to relate about, like, having to run away from the paparazzi and just feeling like you're always being followed. It is a true emotion. I'm glad he got it out. It's just not the most universal. It's a very, like, Yeeza song to me, where it's like, there are songs on Yeezus that I love, but I'm just like. Like, this is rich negro shit. Come on.

[A]

Yeah. Okay. So Noid, I think. I mean, like, there's a lot of songs like hey Jane or Judge Judy where I really respect the writing. It's just not a song that I want to listen to all the time, you know? Like, the storytelling on, like, Judge Judy is, like, really emotional and, like, sincere and really great writing. But, yeah, I don't.

[B]

It doesn't get there. But I do agree. I actually, like, I killed you. Like, it wasn't one that was ever in contention, but I did, like, I killed you.

[A]

I thought for sure you were going. Thought I was dead.

[B]

Oh, I. On the ride here, I was almost gonna make a late.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But I was like, I can't pick. Thought I was dead. Especially because I'm like, Schoolboy. I was like, you're picking this because you like the school so much. Like, I just loved him and Tyler's friendship, and I just, like. Once again, Schoolboy Q was another rapper that I think if he let Tyler handle all the production on an album, I just think it would sound incredible.

[A]

Yeah. School. New Schoolboy Q apparently is done.

[B]

And all I do realize him and Schoolboy Q are, like, like, tight.

[A]

Yeah, it seems like it. Yeah.

[B]

Hell, yeah.

[A]

Makes sense.

[B]

All right, so we both pick Balloon. We both picked Darling. I. I picked Sticky.

[A]

You picked, like, him.

[B]

All right, cool. I don't know.

[A]

I mean, you. You're take. You technically can go first and we have overlap, so it is your right to go first, though. I think you know where I'm going for our. So this is our last song standing. This is a song we're going to take into the Royal Rumble just in a couple episodes. So you go on balloon. You going Sticky? Are you going? What was your third Darling Eye? Oh, darling I. Ooh, that's kind of tough.

[B]

I think it's between Sticky and Darling. I.

[A]

Okay, I agree.

[B]

I gotta go Darling. I. I gotta go with my heart. I think Sticky is a better produced record. But the problem with Sticky is that if this was, like, last production standing, I would pick Sticky, but his last song standing. I think Darling Eye is a more successful song than Sticky is.

[A]

No, actually, no. I mean, if you're popularity.

[B]

No, no, no. I'm just talking about, like, song.

[A]

Right, okay.

[B]

Like what I. The production of Sticky leaves me more in awe, but just how cohesive Darling Eye is just. It took Tyler his entire career to be able to get to a song that sounds that seamless. You just can't see the stitching in that.

[A]

I think it's better written than See youe Again. I think it's better written than Earthquake. Even if you prefer Earthquake, I just think, yeah, Darling Eye as. It almost feels like the perfect Tyler, the Creator pop song. Even if it's not his biggest. I'm just saying, like, just compositionally as

[B]

a product, it's just so seamless and so fucking and slick, so. And. And I think a lot of these songs are good, but I was like, if it was between Sticky and Earthquake, I would still pick Earthquake. You know what I mean?

[A]

Right.

[B]

So that's why I was like, ah, Sticky would lose.

[A]

Okay. All right, well, I'm not gonna try to draw it out. I'm going like him. We got it. I think. I mean, it's cold bait, but I. Hopefully I made a great case for it because I feel like you made

[B]

a perfect case for it.

[A]

I think it's, you know, it's a Garden shed level. I actually might even surpass Garden Shed for Me Me. So I'm gonna go easy. Like him. So let's quickly recap the list, and then, Justin, we're gonna see if you wanted to use your VAR video replay to exchange Earthquake for something else off this record. But I. My list now is Bastard, She Answer, Cherry Bomb, title track, Garden Shed, New Magic Wand, Lumberjack, and Like Him. Super diverse list. Got emotional, got bangers, and Yours a little more one dimensional, but go ahead.

[B]

All right. French Yonkers. Bimmer Buffalo. Who that boy? Gone. Gone. Thank you, Lemon head. Darling eye.

[A]

A darling eye is a great. Actually, you really rounded out your list with the darling.

[B]

I think what you could see in my list, whether it's Bimmer or darling eye or Gone Gone. Thank you. I either like. There's two Tylers that I love. Either give me the raps and just show me that you like because he's a phenomenal rapper, or give me the lush Neptune singing production. Yeah, like, those are the two. I either like crunchy distorted Tyler or I like smooth 2000s R B Tyler.

[A]

Okay, Justin, are we any songs in contention? Anyone that we didn't nominate you're surprised about? Or is there anything sticking out in terms of a exchange for Earthquake?

[C]

Ooh, I don't. I just don't think I can exchange anything for Earthquake, but maybe I'm starting to come off of that right now. Let me ask you, are there. Are there songs that the audience is clamoring for that we have missed?

[A]

I know that on this episode. On this album.

[C]

On. In. In. Sure, let's. On this album, we. On this album, we don't know yet.

[A]

I saw some pushback for Sweet. I thought you wanted a dance that you know. But we. Some people a little bummed we didn't choose that. I kind of had a feeling that we're going to get some pushback about that because that. But that's a big song on this record. I'm trying to predict. I mean, people like Paranoid, but if you're just going by streams, it's like, even as the lead single, it's kind of lower in the streams. I think Sticky not getting through to the finale might rub people the wrong way. And I think there's going to be a very. Maybe a minority but strong contingent for like a song like hey Jane or Judge Judy.

[C]

Yeah, I like those songs, but they just. I've heard. I don't know. I. I think that they are well written, well executed songs that don't quite capture what makes Tyler incredibly special as an artist. I agree they're very good songs, but they're where the goal here is the last song standing. Not to list just a bunch of songs that we like, which, by the way, we take seven, eight episodes to list a bunch of songs. I don't think I can. I don't think I can change anything.

[A]

Right. Yeah.

[C]

I don't think there's anything on this album that sticks out. I think Balloon is, you know, great.

[A]

But. Yeah, it's not quite.

[C]

It's not. It's not. It's not gonna win.

[A]

Yeah. All right.

[B]

I'm feeling good.

[A]

Next episode, don't tap the Glass. Lucy's features double episode. Well, we'll keep it. We're gonna keep it a reasonable time, but we are covering. Don't Tap the Glass and then we're gonna cover anything. So Lucy's. We. The umbrella of Lucy's is like singles, B sides. And then even features are in contention.

[B]

Anything that didn't make a proper album or maybe made the deluxe or just like.

[A]

Yeah, so estate sale stuff people were asking about that will be addressed on the Lucy's part of the episode and then finale after that.

[B]

I'm, I'm. This is going to be a hard finale. It might be one of our more difficulties. I think so.

[A]

I actually think so. It might be the, the, the hardest to narrow down one song from Tyler, so. Okay. All right, Charles, next week had a blast. All right, we're back. Cultural exchange.

[B]

Cultural exchange, man. Where are we at? Where we at on this?

[A]

So. So we did a off camera pivot.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

So you assigned me Akira, which is something I really want to watch. But then I saw in the time between tapings that Akira is coming back to IMAX and 4K for a one night showing in September. And I was like texted you, I said, charles, I know Akira is my, you know, my assignment, but I think I need to see it for the first time in imax. And you agreed, right?

[B]

I definitely agreed.

[A]

Okay. So then you assigned me Ghost in the Show. Okay. So I didn't get so interesting. I watched it, but I didn't get like the full prep from you like about it. So maybe say what you would say about it if you're giving it to me, and then I'll give you like, you know, my reaction.

[B]

So I wait. I think a lot of listeners were probably like, well, why didn't you give Cole any of the big ones early? Like Akira, Ghost in the Shell is in this. Perfect blue is in this. These are just like the foundational. These are the Godfathers, the Citizen Kains of anime. And my pitch for Ghost in the Shell is it is one of the most influential movies of all time. It kind of kicks down the door from. In terms of how a US audience interacts with anime, where obviously the big kind of like headline is heavily influenced the Wachowskis with the Matrix, but.

[A]

And this was released in 1995, just so people know.

[B]

And I think not Just from an aesthetic standpoint, but just how detailed the animation is, the style is. It is. It takes a couple viewings because, similar to the manga that it's based on, which actually has a new adaptation right now on Amazon, this is created by a mangaka who is really into cybernetics and the future. You're not explaining anything. We're throwing you into the world. It's go, go, go. That is very much the Matrix aspect of it. And you. You almost have to just trust that by the end, similar to Akira, you will at least understand enough. So it's maybe on the tougher side, but I mostly recommended it because I was like, I want to show you a classic. And I want to show you at its peak, how artistic, on a drawn level, animators, you can make something in this medium. It's something that I don't even think we can make today.

[A]

Yeah. So I went in totally cold. I did no research on it. I just watched. Was funny because I haven't seen the Matrix in decades, probably. And that was one of the first thoughts I had about it when I was watching. It was like, this feels like very much of the Matrix. Then I realized it was before. And then, of course, when I did a little research after watching, I was like, oh, okay, that makes sense. Everything from, like, the green text, the number text, but even, like, the villain wearing those little tiny glasses that.

[B]

That Morpheus ends up them, like, jacking into the neck.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's like I said, it is one of the. The reason I didn't want to give it right away. Akira might have a similar thing where it's like, so many movies have taken from it that when you watch it for the first time, you're just a little like, is this cliche?

[A]

Well, okay, so this is my experience with it, which was. I understood, like, it was beautiful, especially for being drawn and produced in 1995. Aesthetically, was really cool story. Conceptually, philosophically, super interesting. The pace of it and, like, the storytelling was a little something that I was like, not something that I personally enjoy. Just how fast it was. No character development. You're just, like, thrown into the blot and it just, like, goes. I like slow. I like, give me space with characters, let them have a conversation, let me get to know them.

[B]

That I will say is true to, like, it deviates from the source material, but the source material is impenetrable. Like, that's almost the style of this. This was created. I'm blanking on his name, but this is a type of otaku Creation. These people are these mangaka. And artists are really into, like, models and guns and just the minutiae of technology.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's almost. I'm not saying that the character development is almost beside the point, but the thing that you're bumping up against when I first watched it was a similar thing where I was just like, hey, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Well, it also, like, I. One thing that was, like, very clear to me was like, to your. You brought up Citizen Kane. Which might be a good parallel here because I remember seeing Citizen Kane early in my kind of artistic journey as a person, when I was like, maybe 19 or something. Yeah. Because I heard it was the best movie ever made. And then when I watched it, I was like, what's the big deal? But then 10, 15 years later, and after you study a little bit of the history of film, you've seen more films, you're like, you return to Citizen Kane. You're like, oh, duh, I understand now

[B]

you see how it is. You're like, oh, there was before Citizen King. Everything that happens after, you're just like.

[A]

And so when I was watching this one, I was like, I know, I don't get it. But it's giving me that quality of like, okay, I know this is important. I'm just not familiar yet with the anime history and all the sub genres to know exactly why this is important. Does that make sense?

[B]

And it's one of those. That's why I always say when I'm recommending manga or anime to people, everybody wants to go straight to Akira or wants to go straight to Ghost in the Shell. And I'm like, no, you're recommending something that you saw in the 90s and 2000s and was, like, groundbreaking. But to someone who, like. Because you've seen the Matrix and you've seen a bunch of action movies that have just been like, I'm stealing from Ghost of the Show. It's not gonna hit you exactly the same.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, philosophically, though. So compelling and, like, cliche, but goddamn if it's like seeing the future.

[B]

It's just.

[A]

I was just like, are we just. Inevitably. We've been making music movies about this for decades. We're now living in the precipice of AI and it's just like. I don't know, I got really kind of sad about it.

[B]

This would have been a great pairing for the Daft Punk season.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. It was just like, fuck. This is like. It's almost like we have a premonition of Our own future. I mean, for anyone that doesn't know the story is about the ghost in the shell is like the ghost is the human soul and a shell of an Android, an artificially modified cyborg humanoid creature that then runs up against what's the puppet master who wants to then fuse with this. His superior version wants to fuse with the cyborg version to create an even more powerful new evolution species.

[B]

And the humans in this world, like, it's interrogating, like, how much technology can you take on? How much can you change of yourself

[A]

before you lose humanity to your point? Damn it.

[B]

Daft Punk ghosted the shell. Everything that's happening now, the Matrix, you were like, oh, even back then, they were just forecasting that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The thing that makes it sad is, like, watching this as a kid, I was like, oh, that's 100 years in the future. You're just like, oh, no. It happened within kind of like a generation. Like, oh, go.

[A]

Yeah. All right. So good pick. So my turn to assign you something. Oh, yeah. So I gave you Sunset Limited last time, and that one is, like, obviously very philosophically potent with no. Essentially no plot. And it's all philosophy, essentially.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I'm going to do something that is adjacent but very almost opposite at the same time, which is give you a short story by Raymond Carver. Oh, yeah. Raymond Carver was, when I wanted to be a writer in my early 20s, was like. Like one of my foundational kind of texts and authors. He's a short story writer, also does poetry, but he. The way I could introduce people to him is like, think of an Edward Hopper painting, like Nighthawks at the Diner scene. Or like, if you know Edward Hopper, we'll put some individuals up here. But like, they're very mundane everyday life scenes, but they're packed with so much emotion and loneliness and like, you could just. Even though if it's like just a girl sitting on her bed, the way it's composed and the expression on her face just tells you so much about that moment in time and the emotions that were felt. To me, Raymond Carver does that, but with short stories. So I'm giving you where I'm calling from. Oh, yeah. The only thing I'll say about it is it takes place in a rehab facility and it's about two guys drying out at this rehab facility. There's nothing much happens in it. It's very still and sterile, but there's so much emotional. You. I don't know. I don't want to give too much away, but that's kind of the premise of it. Have you heard of Raymond Carver before?

[B]

Yes, I have.

[A]

I'm super.

[B]

I'm super excited.

[A]

Okay, so where I'm calling from, can't wait to hear your thoughts.

[B]

Hell, yeah. Thank you.