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- [00:00]
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- [01:07]
IDK
I've never told nobody I feel bad about these things. And in rap, you're not actually supposed to. You'd be like, yeah, I did this, I did that, I did it. And that was the first part of the record. It's like all of that, getting all that out the way so I can get to this place, going through prison. All this project basically was, was me taking you through a 15 year sentence and showing you how redemption is important because the person that came in was this way. The person that came out is this way. That's so many people that I know.
- [01:38]
Cole Kushna
It's beautiful, man. That is exactly why art exists. That's why a song like this works so well at the end of the album. It works on its own. But to have the context, to have the arc to get you to this moment, so powerful.
- [01:58]
IDK
Foreign.
- [02:02]
Cole Kushna
Welcome, everyone, to a special episode of Dissect. I'm your host, Cole Kushna. Today we're honored to have IDK in the studio to dissect his brand new mixtape, Even the Devil Smiles. Idk. Thanks for joining Dissect, man.
- [02:14]
IDK
Hey, man, thanks for having me. Big fan of what you do.
- [02:17]
Cole Kushna
So appreciate it, man. Yeah, yeah. Excited to get into the project. We're going to talk about themes, talk about concepts and everything and just get into the weeds on it, I guess. Before we get there, though, a question that I always like to ask everyone, but especially artists, is like, I'm always curious about your relationship with music. You know, music is something we hear all the time. We're a kid. It's in the background. It's on the cartoons that we watch. But then somewhere along the line, music becomes something more. It becomes more than something we hear in the background. And we develop a deep relationship with it. I'm wondering if, you know, if you could talk to me about when that might have happened in your life. If there was an album or a song that was a catalyst to that.
- [03:02]
IDK
The idea of wanting to make music and be a rapper, probably, I would have to say, came from the dmv, from watching Wale and hearing about him on the radio, him being. Because I'm African, my parents is from Sierra Leone and Ghana, and him being African, rapping about being African, being on the radio from the dmv, that kind of was the first thing that sparked, like, potentially thinking I could maybe do something other than that. I was just a fan of certain music and listening to certain music. So, you know, things like 50 Cent, Get Rich or Die. Trying to, like, my first CD, Bootleg Mixtape. Oh, well, not mixtape, a bootleg. And then growing from that, honestly, into, like, ye. And then getting into, like, Wayne, you know, all of these people. Wayne was actually the first time I realized rap could go beyond just saying things that rhymed. There were other ways to make your lyrics clever and add layers. And Wayne's metaphors, you know, those were the ones that kind of, like, made me say, wow. Rap has another layer to it. Right? You know?
- [04:19]
Cole Kushna
Yeah, yeah. So when did you start actually making music? I mean, were you a producer first or lyricist first?
- [04:28]
IDK
No, I actually shot music videos first.
- [04:30]
Cole Kushna
Oh, sick.
- [04:31]
IDK
I wrote. Okay. I wrote lyrics before that, though. I was writing Things I say. Like, my first song I ever wrote was about North Face jackets. I wanted one so bad that I wrote a song about it. And I was in middle school.
- [04:45]
Cole Kushna
You remember any of the lyrics?
- [04:47]
IDK
I know you mad when you see that summit series on. On your coat. You can't afford one cause your ass there broke. And I was one of the people that couldn't afford it. So, yeah, I was just being a rapper. Yeah. But basically that was like, kind of the first time I wrote a song, a rap song. But before that, I wrote poetry. Like, I remember middle school writing, like, some poems and people, you know, laughing because of how clever they thought it was. So, you know, I always was like that guy who could put words together, and people kind of knew me for that early in my life. Then, like I said, middle school, I wrote my first song, left it alone for quite some time. High school. I was in boarding school in Kentucky because I kept getting kicked out of all the schools and getting in trouble. And I started rapping based off of what I would hear Wale do at that time. And then Just people who were just really heavy into the lyric side. But I was listening to Wale and all of that, and then 808's and heartbreak, I think, came out around that time. Wayne Carter 3 also was around that time. So that was what I was listening to and trying to kind of mimic. And then later on, you know, when I was locked up, that's when I kind of decided, let me just try, really try to do this, you know, when I get out. And that was because of the encouragement of other inmates seeing me do it, asking me to rap. I rap. They liked what I was doing, and they were like, yo, should do that, right?
- [06:30]
Cole Kushna
I want to get into Even the Devil Smiles. I thought a good way to get into the conversation. You kind of alluded to the. Maybe the origin of the concept there a second ago in terms of when you're locked up and started rapping and doing that seriously. But I don't know if a lot of people know that you first presented this album and at the Mocha, the Contemporary Museum of Art. So why did you. Was that something that you planned, that you wanted to present it at an art museum first or. That happened, like, coincidentally. But I'm interested in, like, you know, why debut the album in a museum?
- [07:04]
IDK
Yeah. Oh, that was. You know, places like Mocha, you got to kind of get in there fairly early, right? So that was months of planning. I think about six months, which was pretty fast. And the idea was to present what you would consider. I think people consider mixtapes to a certain degree, like, almost like not disregarded art, but kind of like, oh, it's a mixtape. There you go. Less than. And I didn't love that because I think the concept of the mixtape is just as genius as some of the people in prison when they take certain resources that they have. And I mean, in prison, they could turn the most simple thing into a tattoo gun. You know, they'll take a guitar string and a needle, and then they'll take the motor out of a CD player and they'll put it together. Next thing you know, they're tatting up everybody, you know, based off of that. That ingenuity, based off a lack of resources. That's what rap and hip hop was birthed from. Lack of distribution. Labels weren't necessarily interested in it at first until they realized they can make money off of it. So. But. But they love the art form, so they figured out how to use the turntables and loop a certain beat because they may not have had the resources to have a full Band, but the beat had the band. And then they would loop that and then learn to rap over that and tell the story. And then it evolved, and then it became mixtapes. And then they were handing out tapes, selling tapes to the bodegas. That was their distribution. That to me, is genius. It's the lack of resources that causes you to figure out a solution. And I think that, like, when you look at the genius in the art of the mixtape, and not only just the art of the music aspect, but the art of how people are able to consume it, I thought it belonged in the mocha.
- [09:02]
Cole Kushna
Yeah. Places like that recontextualize it, present it as high art, so to speak.
- [09:08]
IDK
Yes.
- [09:09]
Cole Kushna
So, yeah. So you formally kind of named this a mixtape? Obviously, like, mixtapes aren't what they used to be. It's feels like more like an aesthetic now or a concept. So I'm curious, why mixtape for this specific project?
- [09:23]
IDK
Oh, well, that's exactly what it was. It's an artistic, purely creative decision. Creatively wanting to put who kid on there to give it that feel or like when everyone knows comes on and you hear, damn, son, where'd you find this? But not being afraid to play with string sections and put in that extra level of production. That is my version of a mixtape, polished, if you will, whatever you want to call it. But my best effort in rap music and hip hop, because I love rap music, it changed my life and I wanted to show it the most respect that I could in the purest form of what it is in terms of what I like.
- [10:06]
Cole Kushna
If I understand this right, you recorded the instrumentals to actual tape too, right?
- [10:11]
IDK
Yeah.
- [10:11]
Cole Kushna
Because when you listen, this is something I noticed recently when I was preparing for this. Your vocals feel se, like semi separated from the instrumentals in the way that some, like classic mixtapes have that separation. Because, like a lot of times they're just like ripping mp3 instrumental. Like just one.
- [10:29]
IDK
Yeah.
- [10:30]
Cole Kushna
They're getting the stems or anything.
- [10:31]
IDK
Yeah.
- [10:32]
Cole Kushna
So talk to me about, was that like, intentional to replicate that kind of sound or what was the idea of actually recording or maybe go into the process for the. For listeners, what that was about?
- [10:41]
IDK
Well, I'll say the process and then the second part. So the process was me recording everything, mixing everything, then bouncing everything vocal and instrumental. So there's a separation slightly in my engineer Kalin, slightly queuing things. So there's a. Even more of a separation and then coming back and then putting it back to tape and then gluing it back together with tape and giving a Little more saturation to it. There's an important thing in music that I think a lot of music in a digital age lacks, which is the analog aspect. And I thought that, hey, it might make it 1% or 2% better, but I'm going to do that shit because this is my art. I don't care. I love what I do. I want to give people that extra mile, even if they notice it or they don't notice it. I have to deal with that with my lyrics all the time, where I say things that people really, really just don't get and they. They like it at a surface level, and I'm okay with that. So that's kind of one of those things. Just. Just doing that. And as far as it being intentional or trying to, you know, make it anything like something that was before, not necessarily. It was me kind of making the decision that all those little things that people disregard because they don't think anyone's going to care. That 2% here, 2% there, 2%, that'll. You do all of that, even if it takes you very long to do, you do all of those things and you'll get 10% right. And I'm okay with that because this is my art, and people who listen to it deserve my effort. So that's what it was.
- [12:24]
Cole Kushna
I love that. I love that.
- [12:25]
IDK
Yeah.
- [12:26]
Cole Kushna
I wanna talk about the album title, Even the Devil Smiles. I'm always curious, like, do you. Did you have the title first and then wrote to that concept, to that theme, or did it come out of songs that you already had? Like, at what point did you have the title?
- [12:42]
IDK
With almost everything that I do, I start making stuff. And then I. I may have a loose idea, but I start making stuff. And then whatever's in my subconscious, because I don't write my lyrics, so whatever's in my subconscious tends to come out. And then it's up to me to analyze what am I thinking, what am I feeling, why do I feel this way? And that's when the concept starts to come to life and then everything becomes tailored to the concept. Even the Devil Smiles comes. Actually, it started off with this project that I was doing over all of the Mad Lib beats called Devil on My Left. And the song Devil was Burn birthed from that. So it was the second song on that project originally, and it was on the madlib only version of the beat. The one that you hear now is the one that I touched and Devil on My Left. Because I was feeling very frustrated at that time with the music industry. And things like that. So that was on my subconscious. But then when I listened to it, I started realizing, why do I feel this way about people? And then I started realizing, oh, it's probably because in prison, some of the things people get away with now would be considered disrespectful, and people would probably harm you for some of the things that people do in the music industry. And then I started to unpack, and that's where you get even the devil smiles. So it's just Devil on my left was just pure anger, pure frustration. And then I. Even the devil smiles is the juxtaposition between the frustration and what the frustration actually comes from. And then reevaluating myself so it becomes therapy instead of just straight punching the punching bag, you know?
- [14:32]
Cole Kushna
Right. So I think I heard you say somewhere, forget where. But also, the name Devil or the idea of devil has something to do with you going to prison. And is that true when they're doing your sentencing?
- [14:47]
IDK
Yeah. Okay, so that was Halo. Halo's. When I mentioned kind of the sentence part of it. Oh, sorry. Okay. I see what you're asking. You're really good. You going deep. Okay. You're talking about when I mentioned devil in the sense of what they called me.
- [15:06]
Cole Kushna
Yeah.
- [15:07]
IDK
So there's a thing called a witness impact statement. And when you go to prison, they. Oh, sorry. When you go to court, they. They. For sentencing, the victims have the opportunity to come to court and give their statement and recommend what they think should happen to you as well as the state's attorney and everyone else. Right. And your. Your attorney. So basically, the victims in my case were saying, like, this kid's the devil. If he is doing all of this stuff at 17, imagine when he gets older. And that was where the double part of it came from. Yeah.
- [15:51]
Cole Kushna
I mean, do you remember how you felt in that moment? It seems like a heavy load to 17.
- [15:57]
IDK
Yeah. In that moment, I felt less than I feel now because I didn't understand the depth of what them saying that actually was at. I was 18 by the time, so I was like, that sucks. I'm sad that they feel this way about me because I don't know that deep down I'm that person that they described me to be. But also, I'm like, sweating bullets because I'm not trying to get this. Fifteen years, you know, which was the max for what I had at that time. Prior to that sentence, though, it was. It was like 80 years or something. Total max of all the charges.
- [16:33]
Cole Kushna
Even as a minor.
- [16:34]
IDK
As a minor, they Charged me as an adult. So at that time, I was just like, man, I just don't want to get cooked, man. I'm just trying to. I have a life ahead of me. I'm just trying to get another chance. Now when I get older, it's a little bit like, damn, man. Y' all don't really, like, look at it that way. Like, you're not able to say, he's young, he didn't know any better. He could be, you know, with the right guidance, he probably could change his life. It was like, no, I want him to have the maximum sentence. Even though no one lost their life physically, no one was harmed. Yes, there was some psychological damage because, you know, I definitely threatened their lives and things like that in that moment, which I'm not proud of. But I was young. I didn't really think about it the way that it actually was received on the end until now that I'm older.
- [17:24]
Cole Kushna
So the first time you. Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but one of the first times that you really talked about the subject matter was another mixtape of yours, 2017. I was very Bad, right. That the first song on that album is Ms. Lynch, your son is the Devil. Yeah.
- [17:41]
IDK
Yeah.
- [17:42]
Cole Kushna
So it's interesting that you're revisiting the same time period with, you know, eight or something years, more experience and perspective. Was that an intentional connection right there in terms of addressing the same thing, but now more mature and maybe more 100%.
- [17:59]
IDK
That was I. Before this came out, I was telling my fans that this is, like, not a sequel to I Was Very Bad, but a spin off. It's like, if you go. If you listen to I Was Very Bad up until no Shoes on the Rug, where I'm on a jail call with my mother. At that point, if you go left, even Devil Smiles. If you go right, you continue through that mixtape. And that's basically what that was.
- [18:25]
Cole Kushna
Okay.
- [18:26]
IDK
It's the segue from that moment on into this next chapter in my life.
- [18:31]
Cole Kushna
Oh, that's cool.
- [18:32]
IDK
Or this version of me, I would say.
- [18:36]
Cole Kushna
Yeah. Is there a difference in perspective with more maturation, more years about this time? Like, and if so, like, what. What's the biggest difference?
- [18:47]
IDK
One of the biggest differences is like, I. You know, I'm not even a person that cries often. It's very rare for me to cry, but for some reason, whenever I do, music is involved.
- [18:57]
Cole Kushna
Yeah, Music or cinema.
- [18:59]
IDK
Yeah, yeah. And. And I kind of was like, just like, if anything, I feel bad about some of the things I did or the mentality I had, because in that moment, I swear I was not thinking the way that I think now. I just wanted whatever I wanted. I wanted to have that thing. I didn't want to harm nobody necessarily. But in a process, you know, I've done that quite a few times. Knowing. Knowing the feeling of people fearing for their life and that being in your hands, you know, when you're 17, you can't really comprehend that level of fear or power or abuse of power. I say now that I'm older, I'm like, shit, man, I was really terrorizing people. You know what I mean? Like. And that was what I feel bad about. And that's one of the. Probably the biggest points of growth that I've had.
- [19:58]
Cole Kushna
Yeah, yeah. Well, let's jump into the album because everything we're talking about is kind of in the album, right? In terms of, like, there is anger, there is frustration, but by the end there is remorse.
- [20:10]
IDK
There's.
- [20:11]
Cole Kushna
So there's definitely an arc, at least in my interpretation of the album to the. The sequencing. So we start with what I'm assuming is like a real call.
- [20:22]
IDK
I almost pressed fucking seven on accident.
- [20:25]
Featured Vocalists (e.g., MF Doom, Denzel Curry)
You listen to that gun like a motherfucker.
- [20:27]
IDK
That shit hung up. I bet I'm out of play right now.
- [20:29]
Cole Kushna
So who. Who are you talking to in the very beginning of the album?
- [20:32]
IDK
That's d' Angelo Sneed. So a friend of mine who I met in prison who was also a high ranking blood member, he was highly respected in that time. When I was on that unit with him, he was probably, you could say he was the leader of that particular unit. And he was somebody that took a liking to me and what I wanted to do in music and even things with fashion because I used to borrow his GQ magazines and study them. And he became like my best friend when we was there. So that is the conversation I'm having with him because he's still in there and I'm basically playing him the album.
- [21:11]
Cole Kushna
Okay. And so is this might be just me, like, looking too hard at this. But there's a moment where you say I almost press 7 on accident, which, like erases. Blocks them or something blocks him from calling, which in my mind I'm like, okay, a lot of this album has to do with like chance, sliding door moments. If. If you get that long sentence and you don't get left, you know, you don't get released after two years on parole, like, your life probably looks way different, right? Maybe you don't find a music career or whatever. I Don't know if that was intentional, but I'm like, oh, well, that's like a. Another chance and another butterfly effect moment right there. And like, I press this button, my relationship with this guy is like, cut off, essentially.
- [21:52]
IDK
Yeah, yeah, no, that's exactly. So. So in the moment, that was a real call. So I didn't think to say that.
- [21:58]
Cole Kushna
Right, right.
- [21:59]
IDK
But when I'm editing it, I'm like, I need to leave that in there for that reason. Right. That's how I kind of. That's the producer side of me kind of putting the psychology to the story.
- [22:10]
Cole Kushna
Yeah, yeah. Okay. So then we go right into Halo.
- [22:13]
IDK
Greedy.
- [22:13]
Featured Vocalists (e.g., MF Doom, Denzel Curry)
That's why I move by myself I don't need no one help Hit the lick on my lonely Cause they might just tell every one of you fake y' all plastic as hell Me and soft rapper, man, we never go in
- [22:23]
Cole Kushna
jail I pray the produced by no ID and Dowd is how you say it, Dao.
- [22:27]
IDK
Yes.
- [22:28]
Cole Kushna
So you produce yourself, but you also are collaborating with a lot of top tier producers on this album or all your albums. What are you. What are you looking for in someone else's beat? Like, I'm sure you get some beats all the time. Like, is it just a feeling or like.
- [22:41]
IDK
It's always a feeling.
- [22:42]
Cole Kushna
Okay.
- [22:42]
IDK
It's just a feeling. And then if I feel there's a way to enhance the feeling or tailor it to what I want to invoke, then I do that. If I feel like it doesn't need to be touched, I don't touch it. You know, that's like a big thing that I do. I don't like to just touch beats because I feel like it. It's just how I feel in a moment.
- [23:03]
Cole Kushna
Right. I always like to look at opening lines of an album. I don't know. Do you? So did you know this is going to be the first song? Do you write the verses or was this placed first?
- [23:12]
IDK
Because after the fact, I heard that beat and kind of felt like this is probably going to be the first time I. I didn't know for a fact, but I felt that beat. Felt like that's the first thing I want to hear right when it's time.
- [23:25]
Cole Kushna
Okay.
- [23:26]
IDK
Yeah.
- [23:26]
Cole Kushna
I want to get into the weeds on the opening line then because super powerful. Interesting way to start because they say if I was a killer, I would be like Luigi. To me, like killer devil, synonymous. So if I was the devil, I'd be like this guy who I think we probably all know the story of him. Do a real Clean. Treat the strap like a squeegee. So maybe unpack that a little bit for me. Yeah.
- [23:50]
IDK
So there's two sides. A lot of what I write, they tend to always be double entendres or more. And there's the surface level, which is, idk, ignorantly deliver knowledge. It's always the ignorance. That line is. Can be considered ignorant depending on how you look at it. But when you think about Luigi, there's two sides to it. There's a side of, oh, this guy's a killer, he should be in jail. And then there's a side of, but why did he do that? Was that a righteous way of doing that? It's almost like I always believe that anyone who has done certain things, depending on how you look at it, it could be justified. There's people that say, if someone's a pedophile and you kill them, that's good for that person. Good for. They shouldn't. You shouldn't go to jail for that. Right. Then there's some people that are like, yo, killing is bad no matter what. I know people in prison who have been in situations where they had to defend themselves, and it ended up in people dying and knowing that they're really good people if you actually spend time with them. So that line is like. There's two layers to it. It's like the ignorance of, if I was a killer, I would be like, Luigi, like, embracing it. And then there's the side of it where it's like, if I was a killer, I would be like, luigi, take my time. Pick the right situation where it would help other people in my mind, potentially, or I'm doing the right thing. I don't know what he actually did. Right, right. You know what I'm saying? Right, right, right, right. Allegedly, what we think may have happened or what people think may have happened. That is what that line is. So I commend you for even bringing that up.
- [25:34]
Cole Kushna
Next line, too, is equally interesting. In my mind. You say everybody fuck with you and everyone needy. How the we supposed to coexist when everyone greedy? That line right there. I mean, there's been philosophy books written on that concept, maybe stated, you know, more academically or whatever. But, like, that is at the root of, I think, the story of this album, you know, in terms of, like, armed robbery, greed and chasing. Yeah. But also, like, your experience in the music industry. And then, I mean, you follow this line by saying, that's why I moved by myself I don't need no one
- [26:09]
IDK
help Hit the lick on my Lonely because they might just tell.
- [26:14]
Cole Kushna
So there's an isolation caused by these relationships all looking for exploitation of each other.
- [26:21]
IDK
Yep.
- [26:21]
Cole Kushna
And I feel like. I don't know. I just love this opening quatrain because it really sets up the album beautifully, I think.
- [26:27]
IDK
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, man. You know, I'm glad that I'm doing this with you because I've given up on people caring about my lyrics enough to peep that. But I love doing it.
- [26:37]
Cole Kushna
There's some of us out here.
- [26:39]
IDK
Yeah, I love it. So I just do it anyway. And I'm like, as long as I sound good and you just like it, fine. But the people that happen to get that, I feel special because that's how I write. I write, like, exactly what you're saying. That's what I. How I write. And I don't know that people have fully embraced that side of me because I don't think they look for it. Whereas, you know, you'll probably see, like, Kendrick, where. Not that he doesn't do this. He does definitely do this, but maybe they exaggerate certain lines a little bit because they just know to look for that.
- [27:10]
Cole Kushna
He gets the benefit of the doubt where you feel like you don't.
- [27:13]
IDK
I'm the opposite. I think I say things so sometimes sloppily a little bit, because I like doing that Shout out to MF Doom. I like that drunken flow in my own way. That. And then I don't think people expect. It's like, very few people think that deeply. But that's how I think when I make these lyrics. That's how I think.
- [27:32]
Cole Kushna
Well, I could tell. I mean, for me, the evidence is there. You're doing every album that you have is a concept album.
- [27:37]
IDK
Yeah.
- [27:38]
Cole Kushna
Like, your artwork is always really thought out. The world that you build, the merchandise, like, it's all, like, so clear, like. Yeah.
- [27:46]
IDK
Thank you.
- [27:46]
Cole Kushna
There's so much intention behind it.
- [27:48]
IDK
Thank you.
- [27:48]
Cole Kushna
And you're fucking premiering it in. What are we talking about? Okay, so. Chorus. Turning a hat to a halo Mm.
- [27:59]
Featured Vocalists (e.g., MF Doom, Denzel Curry)
Turning a hat to a halo Turning a hat to a halo I have
- [28:05]
Cole Kushna
some ideas of what it might mean, but I'm curious what. What you meant by that.
- [28:08]
IDK
So that particular one, another kind of double entendre. It's like I'm turning a hat to a halo. So this whole thing, this whole song is me talking to you as if I'm that person that was robbing people, et cetera, et cetera, but I'm at the. Simultaneously, I'm talking to rappers or other people in the music industry, so particularly, that is just as simple as another way of saying offing somebody. But when you think about the hat and the association with other rappers. Because that's why in the background, Dee and I are both saying, a rap. Fuck a rap. So it's like me kind of thinking about what I would do to some of the people who maybe don't. They. They may disregard me in a way that I find disrespectful.
- [29:02]
Cole Kushna
Okay.
- [29:03]
IDK
You know, but. Yeah, but it's basically me. Another way of me saying.
- [29:07]
Cole Kushna
Right.
- [29:07]
IDK
Getting rid of somebody.
- [29:09]
Cole Kushna
Yeah. Okay. So in the bridge, we hear. Is that the same guy from the. The start of the album on the phone call again. So a continuation of that. Okay. So then the outro or the final verse is where you kind of lay the album concept out.
- [29:24]
Featured Vocalists (e.g., MF Doom, Denzel Curry)
Rewind back to 2010 in front of the judge for my sentence State gave me 15 and they dropped the gavel could have got away with three, but I wouldn't tattle.
- [29:33]
IDK
Make a rolling.
- [29:34]
Featured Vocalists (e.g., MF Doom, Denzel Curry)
And I got out, hit the studio with low and had to rock out. That's why it's real in my eyes. I made it here.
- [29:40]
IDK
No surprise.
- [29:41]
Featured Vocalists (e.g., MF Doom, Denzel Curry)
If I did, the whole time, I'd
- [29:42]
IDK
be out in 2025. 25.
- [29:45]
Cole Kushna
2025 being the year you wrote that song. This song and the album, the project.
- [29:49]
IDK
Yeah.
- [29:50]
Cole Kushna
So what's. So this is like the Sliding Doors moment, right? Where you're saying, essentially, my whole entire music career wouldn't have happened if I served a full sentence. Right? Yeah.
- [30:00]
IDK
I would have been D', Angelo, who's still there. He's been there for 22 years.
- [30:05]
Cole Kushna
Right.
- [30:05]
IDK
He got out recently and went back in. I'm talking about, like, after two months. So, you know, I. The duality between him and I is like, all right, here's life. Here's life. You go this way or you go this way. And the irony is, our lives correlate. When I. We became cool with looking at GQ magazines and stuff like that. I end up doing the COVID of GQ while he's in prison. And he gets it.
- [30:34]
Cole Kushna
Wow.
- [30:35]
IDK
Mind you, this is a guy who tells me, you should rap. He's like, yo, you got that different style, like Lupe or something. Like, you don't rap like everybody else. You should try it. And that is why this record is so important and his role and his record is so important. He actually ended up getting out in 2025.
- [30:56]
Cole Kushna
Crazy.
- [30:58]
IDK
I would have been getting out in 2025 had I done the full sentence. So that kind of Sets you all. Sets you up with this kind of cliffhanger of like, where are we going with this?
- [31:10]
Cole Kushna
Right.
- [31:10]
IDK
But that's really my life. The idea that I'm doing this in the time where I would have been out. And then it's also saying, so stop. Like, these people that are around me, bro, you don't know. Like, you think I'm a nice guy, and I am a nice guy, but I'm not a nice guy. I'm a nice guy, but I'm not a nice guy. That's the reality of who I am. Anyone that knows me knows that about me. And I don't like bullying. I hate it. Especially because of prison. Prison. That's the one part of me that's kind of still institutionalized. Institutionalized people trying to bully me. It's like the easiest way to get under my skin. Because I feel like if I let you do that, that means everyone can do that to me. And I'm not willing to risk that for you.
- [31:54]
Cole Kushna
Right.
- [31:55]
IDK
So that was me. That whole song was me kind of thinking about everybody who felt. Who've maybe looked at me wrong or looked down on me for any reason. I'm just like, yo, you don't know what I. What I used to be. What I. Who I used to be. You know?
- [32:11]
Cole Kushna
Yeah. I mean, well, it's also interesting about your story. It's like, how many other Idks are not getting the second chance that you got where these guys are more than the thing that they did wrong?
- [32:22]
IDK
Yeah.
- [32:23]
Cole Kushna
And not getting that opportunity to evolve like you did.
- [32:26]
IDK
Yeah. And that's why I dedicate so much energy to certain efforts that allow me to help the next person like me see that. Not turning your back on people. I love the concept and. And the practice of redemption, giving people another chance, because that's what. I wouldn't be here without that. You know, so.
- [32:49]
Cole Kushna
All right, well, let's move on to Devil Mad Lib and idk on the production. So I guess I'm curious, like, production wise, like, where does. Where does Mad Lib's portion, you know, end and yours begin? Like, what did you add to.
- [33:04]
IDK
So Mad Lib's version is the. Mainly the sample, the choir, the. Yes. And he did that. And then I came in and I took that. I like to stab my chops. So, like, it gives it sonic space when it's less held out and more like, so the real version is like, so you. So I took it and I went, oh, sick.
- [33:36]
Cole Kushna
Yeah.
- [33:40]
Featured Vocalists (e.g., MF Doom, Denzel Curry)
Ha ha. I'm back again. I'm on my first letter in my acronym Did a bibba having straps, but I'm strapped again.
- [33:48]
IDK
And then I changed the drums. So the drums like, to give it a little more rhythm. The original drums break was like. You know what I'm saying?
- [34:02]
Cole Kushna
Right.
- [34:03]
IDK
So that's. I'm glad we. We're talking about this so people understand what I did and what. You know. I mean, that's what happened. I basically chopped his sample.
- [34:10]
Cole Kushna
Yeah, that's cool.
- [34:11]
IDK
And then reflipped his.
- [34:12]
Cole Kushna
Yeah, yeah, that's it. Okay. So I guess a general question I have for you relates to this song, but also just the first half of the album. I think you already kind of alluded to it, but, like, how much of the first half of the album is you kind of, like, returning to the mindset of when you're doing the crimes?
- [34:31]
IDK
Oh, man. Almost all of it. It's kind of looking at everybody from that lens, looking at the music industry. Like, I'm telling you, like, the. The younger version of me. I do. Like, I remember one time I was in studio with Pharrell and he took off his watch and he put it on, and it was like a million dollar watch. And I was like, the. The person I.
- [34:55]
Cole Kushna
You.
- [34:55]
IDK
I would never. You know, I mean, like. Like what? Like, stealing is weird to me. Like, I don't know why any grown person would do it, but unless they maybe have to eat or something, like, fine, but, like, hold me and then. Let's not even start there. There's people where I see them, bro, and they, like, try to style on you and act like they're this. That. No security. Just walking around, bro. What I would do to people if this was me, I'll be having a field day with a lot of these rappers. And that kind of is the mentality of what I was thinking about when I was making this. That's why, especially devil, like, I was just like, yo, like, you don't understand. Like, the bottom line is a 50 cent line that I quoted. The bottom line is I'm a crook with a deal if my record on sale, I'm a robin steal yeah, okay.
- [35:46]
Featured Vocalists (e.g., MF Doom, Denzel Curry)
The bottom line is I'm a crook for the deal if my record don't sell, I'm a rob and steal hey, yo, the bottom line is I'm a crook with a deal if my record don't sell, I'm a robber still you
- [35:56]
IDK
better recognize, you know what I'm saying? Like, that was on Halo. That really was real, you know? So that's what it was, though.
- [36:06]
Cole Kushna
Well, yeah, speaking of 50, he's kind of all over, I forgot to point out. Yeah. You quote him, you know, quite fittingly quote How To Rob.
- [36:16]
IDK
Twice.
- [36:17]
Cole Kushna
Twice. Well, that. Oh, on the. Say on. On Halo.
- [36:19]
IDK
I did it on Halo and then on this. Then I did it on the second one where I had. But it's. He quoted Biggie.
- [36:25]
Cole Kushna
Yeah. Okay. So dreams I had. Yeah. Yeah. So
- [36:31]
IDK
I'm just playing what I'm have dreams of the R and B, but
- [36:36]
Featured Vocalists (e.g., MF Doom, Denzel Curry)
I wake up early and bounce with all that I had dreams of R and B then I. The R and B.
- [36:45]
Cole Kushna
For those that don't know I had dreams of R B, RB. Start of verse 2. We'll play clips here to contextualize all this for sure. Well, a really cool moment in the second verse too, where it's like. Yeah, you have this like 50 cent motif in these first two songs. And you start like rapping like a mixture of him and Eminem together.
- [37:03]
IDK
Don't make me go Marshall Mathers with
- [37:05]
Featured Vocalists (e.g., MF Doom, Denzel Curry)
a little bit more 50. Open up them doors and see that
- [37:08]
IDK
you want war with me I remember
- [37:10]
Cole Kushna
the first time I heard this part, I was like, oh, he's kind of like sound like Eminem right here. Then you say it. I'm like, oh, that's like a second. And then you bring in the 50
- [37:17]
IDK
things and DMX a little bit.
- [37:19]
Cole Kushna
Okay, right, okay.
- [37:21]
IDK
When I do the flow and I'm like, kind of crazy. So I. Oh. I mean, that was like. That was definitely dms, the stutter stop.
- [37:29]
Cole Kushna
Yeah. Yeah. There's like a thing that you do on this album a handful of times. I'm going to just name Quiet Confessions. So. So much of the first half of the album is like all bravado and. But then you get these little moments of, like, truth. What I love about the chorus is like, if you listen closely to, like, the filler, I guess. So you have the main sample. What do I got? What do I got in the background? You say, I done had two six hundreds, a new four ten. So basically the bills never end. Which is like such a twist in terms of, like, you think you're flexing, but then you're showing the reality of, like, the main. You know, the bills stacking up.
- [38:11]
IDK
Yeah.
- [38:18]
Cole Kushna
So I mean, what was the idea behind.
- [38:20]
IDK
Is this going back to robbing mentality? Yo, I was put like this. If I turned into somebody that just purely started robbing rappers, I probably become a million, like, make millions of dollars just doing that. Because the reality is the. Again, the way people operate that I'M very. If you around me, I'm chill, but I'm paying attention to everything around me. Like, I'm very. Like, when I say in a line, I tell my. We ain't parking unless I'm backing in. I really. I don't give a. I'm backing in every time. Because where I'm from, you don't park head first.
- [39:01]
Cole Kushna
How come?
- [39:02]
IDK
Because anything could happen. You got to drive out of there. Imagine something's happening in your. You got a back out. Right, right, right, right, right. Yeah. Three point turn to get out of there.
- [39:10]
Cole Kushna
Right.
- [39:10]
IDK
Nah, you need to be able to back in. I'll take the time to back in so that when it's time to leave, I'm out.
- [39:17]
Cole Kushna
Yeah.
- [39:18]
IDK
So that's how I move. And I see people around and it's like, life is so sweet. I have a $400,000 watch on, and I have another $500,000 in jewelry, and I have no security. And I'm just walking around. And listen, let me just make sure I say this. This could happen to anybody, regardless if you're aware or not. But the people who are aware tend to be less likely to get got. I think that that was just me kind of understanding that aspect of myself, you know, in general.
- [39:52]
Cole Kushna
Okay, well, I want to get through most of the album, so I'm gonna have to start skipping songs. Po, is there anything. I love this song, but we gotta keep it moving. Is there anything about Po you're dying to talk about? I feel bad. I hate just skipping songs.
- [40:08]
IDK
No, I don't. Don't. My answers are long winded. And this is a great interview.
- [40:15]
Cole Kushna
Thank you.
- [40:16]
IDK
No, that one in particular. I think it's as straightforward as you want it to be, and this is as deep as you want it to be, but that's just a certain aspect. Jump outs giving pop quizzes. I'm gonna pass the test. Like, I got arrested by jump outs. Basically under covers. They pulled up on me in a. In a Dodge Caravan.
- [40:38]
Cole Kushna
Oh, crazy.
- [40:38]
IDK
And blue lights came from a Dodge Caravan. I had a warrant for my arrest. That's how I went in. So that awareness, you know.
- [40:45]
Cole Kushna
Okay, well, why. So I guess it's the first feature. You got amazing features. You've had amazing features throughout your entire catalog. In terms of, like, I love the curation aspect of your features. They seem very deliberate. I love the pairing of. You know, one of my favorite ones that you did was Westside gun. MF Doom and Jay Electronica on the same song.
- [41:08]
IDK
And Mike Jones too. He did okay, okay. Actually, that was him really doing crazy.
- [41:12]
Cole Kushna
So, I mean, so when you're thinking about features, you know, like, for using this as an example. So why Black Thought for this song?
- [41:21]
IDK
Me and Black Thought was supposed to work for quite some time, honestly. And I just love the idea of him on K. Trinidada beats. I don't want to say too much, but let's say that sparked something else. Right?
- [41:33]
Cole Kushna
Okay, but.
- [41:33]
IDK
But I love the idea of it. I know a lot of the roots is a lot of K's inspiration in general. Black Thought is one of his favorites, and I just felt like he could do that thing and we were supposed to work for some time. So when I finally sent him that, I'm like, yo, what we doing?
- [41:50]
Cole Kushna
His verse is crazy.
- [41:51]
IDK
Yeah, he's going crazy.
- [41:53]
Cole Kushna
Okay. Clover. Love the song, love the energy. Super interesting dichotomy though, because the verses are all kind of like bragging about getting women. Essentially.
- [42:05]
IDK
Yes.
- [42:06]
Featured Vocalists (e.g., MF Doom, Denzel Curry)
She like to let it breathe she don't like to wear no draws and when she get depressed treat my dick
- [42:10]
Cole Kushna
like so long but then, like, if you pay attention to the chorus, it takes like a pretty deliberate turn. Even, like instrumentally, like, the synths come in. But then you go and say, I just want to fall in love I just want to fall Playing to the stars. What was the concept behind that of doing that?
- [42:35]
IDK
Teasing what happens later on with misogynistic.
- [42:38]
Cole Kushna
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [42:39]
IDK
It's like the fight between Da da da da and it's like. But no, the reality is, bro, like, I'm just kind of messed up from certain things. I really just want to fight. Falling off. That's really what it is.
- [42:51]
Featured Vocalists (e.g., MF Doom, Denzel Curry)
But at back this.
- [42:53]
IDK
Yeah. We come to the dorm, like, whatever, Whatever I'm saying, like all this stuff, like, kick her out. No, co ed like, it's the battle.
- [43:01]
Cole Kushna
Yeah.
- [43:01]
IDK
And the music. That's the part that. So Joey Valance and Bray, the main part of the B is them. I arranged that and then I added the chorus part where the beat switches up and changes. And then I. I edited their verses. So.
- [43:15]
Cole Kushna
Okay, so in a moment like that, does the instrumental inspire that turn, Thematic turn? Or did you want to go there with the lyrics somehow? And then you wrote the music to do that? Does that make sense?
- [43:28]
IDK
No, no, I did the music first. That changed and then I felt. Thought about what I wanted, where I wanted to take it and the story
- [43:38]
Cole Kushna
I wanted to tell every time. It's so crazy when you say Loving you is all I know Loving you is all I know and Then right after, Damn, I did Sigma. Okay, I got to talk to you about Sigma. Yeah, you. So Goldie produces this, which, if people don't know, he's a UK drum and bass producer. This is essentially, I mean, quasi instrumental sound collage, interlude maybe, but, like, it's sonically so different from everything, but also somehow fits the album perfectly.
- [44:13]
IDK
I just took the portion of Clover that I did, and then I sped it up. Well, I started off.
- [44:19]
Cole Kushna
Is that what it is?
- [44:20]
IDK
Yes.
- [44:20]
Cole Kushna
That's sick. Okay.
- [44:21]
IDK
And then I switched the beat so he had the. That was his drum break. Okay, so you did the drum break and. And then switched the beat. And then basically, I'm saying in the background, people thought it was a sample or something. It's actually me singing. I'm like, I could feel that red that.
- [44:38]
Cole Kushna
Oh, right. Yeah. Sounds like Sting or something. Yeah, I thought it was a sample.
- [44:41]
IDK
No, it was me. And it was just basically me emulating being pulled over in the feeling. I remember I was listening to J. Cole's the first album, Cold World, and around the time he was talking about getting pulled over by the police when he got signed to Roc Nation or whatever the case may be, that was the time I ended up getting pulled over. And I felt like I was gonna get pulled over. Like, in that moment, I felt that. So when I said I could feel that red, that blue, I feel the police coming. And that's why at the end, it goes whoop, whoop, right? And then you go into cop, and then it goes into cop, and it's like, why would I. Like, I should have ran? Like, just run, run, run. Yeah, yeah, but it's deeper than just obviously just running. It's about running from a lot of different things in life that put. Got me in the situation that I'm even in, you know?
- [45:36]
Cole Kushna
Okay, well, actually, I wanted to talk to you about. Specifically about this idea of running, because there. I don't know if this was deliberate or not, but there is a pretty strong motif of, like, movement. So the hook of cop is Got me running over and over again.
- [45:51]
Featured Vocalists (e.g., MF Doom, Denzel Curry)
Got me running over and over again.
- [45:58]
Cole Kushna
Start to finish. You say. When I say move, Everybody move on po. You essentially, after every lot, like, the first 11 lines, you say move. So I. 1. I just want to know if that was. If I'm picking up on something that was intentional. But it does seem like there is this idea of, like, you're running from the. From the cops physically, but also, just, like, being young directions. Directionlessness. And also, like, constantly, like, some of these Songs you're talking about, like, street hustling and, like, I imagine that is, like, constant movement.
- [46:31]
IDK
Exactly. No, this is exactly what it is. Like, even on po, it's like, I originally wrote that hook, and I originally sang it. Then I got little Jordy to sing it, and it's like the. The move aspect, so the move aspect, it's particularly in the. That one is like, no matter what, you constantly moving. You constantly doing that, and you're constantly watching, and you got to be ready to move or you're moving from one point to another point. There's things that I just say, even after I don't want to say that I was able to get to where I'm at in rap by figuring out how to have the money to do what I do. Because at first, it was fairly expensive to try to just go to studio. Things like that. Having to move, having to make sure that everyone's not always in the same spot when I don't want to say too much.
- [47:29]
Cole Kushna
Allegedly. Allegedly.
- [47:31]
Featured Vocalists (e.g., MF Doom, Denzel Curry)
Don't worry about that.
- [47:33]
IDK
But the move and start to finish is like the concept of robbery. And when I say move, everybody move. When I say, like, put your hands up, whatever the case may be. But trying to make it sound like a song where you're dancing. I started playing with that at first on simple, where I would try to figure out how to say things that talked about the streets in certain ways. But it's like, if you're not listening for that reason, it's just a party song.
- [48:00]
Cole Kushna
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Super clever. Yeah. Dmx, we should talk about these vocals. Because, I mean, start to finish makes me want to run through a wall. That's. That song is, like, crazy. And it's like. It feels like the perfect use of these vocals. Yeah. So tell me how you. Do you have the beat first and have the vocals around? Or like, how this.
- [48:21]
IDK
I did a song for. For him for X first. Then he passed, and it was actually me and Denzel Curry. So Denzel has more of that song. I only use the chorus.
- [48:33]
Cole Kushna
Okay.
- [48:35]
IDK
And basically, I heard a beat that K. Trinada sent me that I originally passed on. I was like, this sounds like some Rough Rider shit. I wonder if those X vocals would work for this.
- [48:44]
Cole Kushna
Okay.
- [48:44]
IDK
And I asked Pat and this. You know, who's this longtime collaborator friend about that verse, and he was like, I mean, it's just kind of lying around. Yeah, I'll send it to you. He sent it, sent the verse, and I put it together, and that was me producing his vocals. To a kaytranada beat that was already in existence.
- [49:05]
Featured Vocalists (e.g., MF Doom, Denzel Curry)
Let's get some motherfucking monster with it.
- [49:07]
IDK
It's how it's going down from the start to finish.
- [49:10]
Featured Vocalists (e.g., MF Doom, Denzel Curry)
Anything moving in the dark can't put my hands on it in the spark.
- [49:14]
Cole Kushna
Get it. Let's get that.
- [49:17]
IDK
When I sent it to K, he was like, yo, man, it sounds like he recorded this on this.
- [49:21]
Cole Kushna
It really does. Yeah.
- [49:22]
IDK
So, yeah.
- [49:23]
Cole Kushna
Fits perfectly.
- [49:24]
IDK
Yeah.
- [49:25]
Cole Kushna
So, yeah. This section of the album definitely feels, like, the most explicit in terms of, like, being very transparent about some of the stuff you have done in the past. I think that's most transparent on Scary Mary.
- [49:37]
IDK
Mm.
- [49:38]
Cole Kushna
So I have a interested in the hook of this. So it interpolates an old 1998 song called Holiday by Witch Doctor.
- [49:51]
Featured Vocalists (e.g., MF Doom, Denzel Curry)
Cause every day is a holiday Another dollar day.
- [49:58]
Cole Kushna
I didn't know who Witch Doctor was before this, but he was part of Organized Noise Dungeon Family Atlanta, Generation 1. Assuming you're a fan of the song, but, like, why'd you interpolate that song?
- [50:09]
IDK
Because I wanted to. Well, that's what I felt in the moment. I remember watching a movie where that song was in it. I don't remember the name of the movie, but it was Chris Tucker's in it. And. And there's a white guy, this actor. I forgot to do his name, but they're in it anyway. Is it Charlie Sheen? Is. Do they have a movie together? I don't know.
- [50:30]
Cole Kushna
I'm not sure.
- [50:31]
IDK
But yeah, I remember that scene. Every day is a holiday Another motherfucking holiday. That's what came to my mind. But the reality was I wanted to tell a story that had this kind of like, I'm doing all these things I'm doing, getting in trouble. I'm like. And then karma hits me in a way that I. It shouldn't have.
- [50:50]
Cole Kushna
Right?
- [50:51]
IDK
So I'm thinking I'm getting away with it. But then something worse than what would have happened if I got in trouble for that ends up happening to me that I didn't actually do. So that was the whole way of telling that story. But let's just say I altered it to make sense for today. Like, you know, I didn't have find my on iPhone at that time. Everything I'm saying on there to some degree is things that I've experienced. Right?
- [51:22]
Cole Kushna
Okay.
- [51:23]
Featured Vocalists (e.g., MF Doom, Denzel Curry)
Seen a lady leaving out the train and took her iPhone. Turned to find my feature off and then I took it right home. Walk inside the house and took some dollars out my stepfather wallet Left enough. So if they ask how much he lost, he couldn't call it.
- [51:36]
Cole Kushna
Yeah. Because this feels like the turning point of the album. So the setup, I mean, that. The chorus, in my mind, sets up the irony of the last verse where you end up. So you. The verse, the third verse, you're, like, pretty detailed about grabbing clothes from Zara, taking some Gucci. You say you're feeling amazing. It's Christmas Eve. I'm gonna buy myself presents. You know? Meanwhile, the course is saying every day is a holiday. And then as it's told here, you end up getting arrested for a murder that you didn't do on Christmas Day, which is the ultimate irony.
- [52:12]
Featured Vocalists (e.g., MF Doom, Denzel Curry)
And it's Christmas Eve, so I can buy myself a flashy present, even if it means I probably never make it into heaven then. Looked out the window See the red and blue lights Anything they said that I did I'll deny Mother, open up and call me down like, is it true I went to jail on Christmas night For a murder I ain't do?
- [52:31]
Cole Kushna
I'm assuming that's a true story.
- [52:33]
IDK
Yeah.
- [52:34]
Cole Kushna
Or the date.
- [52:35]
IDK
Some aspect.
- [52:36]
Cole Kushna
Okay, okay.
- [52:36]
IDK
The date. No.
- [52:37]
Cole Kushna
Okay.
- [52:38]
IDK
That was me. Just. Right.
- [52:39]
Cole Kushna
Just story.
- [52:39]
IDK
Yeah.
- [52:40]
Cole Kushna
Okay. But then, like. Right, so this is the. This is a in my mind narrative moment. Because right after.
- [52:46]
IDK
I know what you're about to say.
- [52:47]
Cole Kushna
Yeah, well, right after you go into cell block freestyle.
- [52:50]
IDK
Yeah.
- [52:50]
Cole Kushna
So we're now in prison, right? Yes.
- [52:53]
Featured Vocalists (e.g., MF Doom, Denzel Curry)
Sacrifice my life for rap My bars come from Jesus Think these niggas hate and that is just my thesis Stomping with my Air Force one till it
- [53:01]
IDK
creases Basically, the first part of the project is like me saying, I'm this, I'm not. Then it starts to. Cops come, I run. Okay, cool. So this where it becomes like a quadruple entendre or triple. Because now I have to make the story also make sense while telling these different layers of the song.
- [53:22]
Cole Kushna
Right.
- [53:22]
IDK
And. And I'm telling you, basically, now I ran this time. Next time I go, I'm doing all this stuff. I get locked up. Now I'm in the cell block freestyling.
- [53:32]
Cole Kushna
Yeah.
- [53:33]
IDK
Then now I'm in Flocka. Now it's me reflecting, right? And then it starts to break down, you know?
- [53:38]
Cole Kushna
Yeah, Yeah. I love how immediate is, like, it's. Because it does go from that verse where you literally say, I feel amazing. But then, like, eight lines later, you're locked up. Just like that fast. I imagine that's how.
- [53:52]
IDK
Exactly how it was.
- [53:53]
Cole Kushna
Yeah.
- [53:54]
IDK
Being in a cell. Like, I'm actually in the place that I saw on TV and I've heard about and. And I'm like, I'm here and I'm fucking going to sleep thinking, having dreams that I'm out and waking up in this cell again.
- [54:09]
Cole Kushna
It's crazy. Yeah.
- [54:10]
IDK
Worst feeling ever. But yes.
- [54:13]
Cole Kushna
Okay. Well, yeah, I mean, it's interesting because you re I recreate. So cell block freestyle is you freestyling over like what sounds like people like beating on acapella drums.
- [54:23]
IDK
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you be in prison, right?
- [54:26]
Cole Kushna
Exactly. But this could also feel symbolic of you, like start the start of your rap career, right as a, you know.
- [54:33]
IDK
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
- [54:34]
Cole Kushna
Yeah.
- [54:34]
IDK
This is, these are the ciphers that I would do. That's why lyrically I'm not thinking too deep. Like I'm kind of just saying whatever then obviously, because I'm idk and I'm ignorantly delivering knowledge. Halfway through or towards the end, I start telling you about what's going on in Life and like $7,000 a month for a car lease or whatever, it's like that's not it. Like, you know what I mean? And this is what I'm going through. But at the end of the day, if I didn't rap, I would probably have to do this because I couldn't get a job. That's me kind of tying it back to the concept.
- [55:11]
Cole Kushna
Right, right. Okay. Do you think you would. If had you not gone to prison, do you think you would have started rapping?
- [55:18]
IDK
Also, if this is a thing about like me leaving, please don't feel like we're good.
- [55:23]
Cole Kushna
Oh, okay.
- [55:24]
IDK
Yeah.
- [55:24]
Cole Kushna
I thought you had a heart out at like 3:30.
- [55:26]
IDK
I do, but this is so good. Like, okay, we just gonna write.
- [55:29]
Cole Kushna
We go a little bit. Yeah, yeah, I appreciate that.
- [55:32]
IDK
Yeah, yeah.
- [55:33]
Cole Kushna
But yeah, so yeah, I guess in your mind, do you. Obviously you just can't know for sure. But like, do you think if you had not gone to prison that you would have started rapping?
- [55:47]
IDK
I don't think so. I don't know. I mean, I love music. Nah, I don't think so, man. I don't think. I think I would have gone back to prison actually. If I didn't go to prison to start and it started rapping, I've just been like doing. I would, I would have gone to prison eventually. Dude, there's no way. There's no, there's no way I would have gone to prison eventually.
- [56:09]
Cole Kushna
Yeah.
- [56:10]
IDK
Now if I wouldn't have wrapped in prison, I would have just been going back.
- [56:13]
Cole Kushna
Right.
- [56:14]
IDK
More than times. And I already went back.
- [56:17]
Cole Kushna
That's Wild. Yeah, it's a trip.
- [56:19]
IDK
I think I'll be there right now.
- [56:21]
Cole Kushna
Crazy.
- [56:21]
IDK
I. I hope I don't want to say that, but I think the way that I was moving, yeah, I would have been, man. I probably been like some type of kingpin or something, trying to figure it out, doing that. I. I would have went back. There's no way I'd have been back. I would have been. I would have went back.
- [56:38]
Cole Kushna
Okay, so Flocka, one of my favorite songs on here. I just want to personally thank you for putting MF Doom on a conductor beat.
- [56:46]
IDK
Thank you, Sick. Thank you.
- [56:48]
Cole Kushna
So, yeah, talk me through the Doom vocals, where they come from. This is now your third time collaborating with Doom. Or, you know, it is a state. So why, you know, what made sense about it for this moment?
- [57:00]
IDK
Well, Doom specifically, he. He did a verse for me on Pizza Shop. I was very bad. And then some of that verse didn't get used. And then a piece of it appeared on Red. I really originally wasn't going to credit it as MF Doom, but then when he passed away, Jay Electronica was like, man. Cause he hadn't sent his verse in yet. And he's like, now I gotta do this. I'm on it. And then it just felt like, you know, in the moment of him no longer being here, the right thing to do would be to credit him so people understand that's exactly what was going on. And I think from there, I still had a little bit left. And it was like one of the lines I remember was in no pussy in over a decade. Damn. And so when I'm putting this together, I'm like, wait, hold on, wasn't he talking about prison? And the last bit that I had left, there's no way. And I pulled it up and it was that. And then I was like, let me see what the BPM is. And it's basically the same BPM as the beat. Yeah, I was like, I like, you know, like Jay Electronica. I gotta do this.
- [58:18]
Featured Vocalists (e.g., MF Doom, Denzel Curry)
Bible is a homemade shank and he's a hand back from a bed Looking all young like Peter Pan God, try to tell me what to do. Cause I'm in the jam with no pussy in over a decade.
- [58:29]
IDK
Damn. It was just everything said that that was supposed to happen. And I think that's one of my favorite songs, if not my favorite song on a project. Because I think I'm telling the story that I never told of being behind bars. And, you know, like, fuck, a sentence. They gave me paragraphs, copping flakka from essays to make the time pass flakka is K2. I tried K2 on my B day and smoked it really slow to make the high last because K2 slow. High is really like hit or miss. It could be long, it could be short. Don't know when parole about to hit Starting to lose my mind this close to popping from the flocka and the frustration But I really am the opposite because I'm not really. I'm not really a tough guy. I'll say I'm not really a tough guy. Maybe at heart I can be, but I'm not really like. But in that moment of frustration, that's how I'm feeling. I'm the cell block's finest and then he comes in. This ain't rocket science it's more like a rocket with a silence and let's
- [59:41]
Cole Kushna
avoid violence yeah, I was going to ask you specifically. Well, the line that you just pointed out was maybe. I mean, it's such a. The image of you on your birthday doing that drug in jail is like. I don't know. It's powerful in terms of like. Yeah, like, very lonely.
- [60:02]
IDK
I was seeing. I was hallucinating.
- [60:04]
Cole Kushna
That's crazy.
- [60:05]
IDK
Yeah, Like, I was seeing, like, weird shit. I still remember the beat. I had a beat in my head. I still remember the beat to this. I want to produce it. It's the weirdest beat. It's probably like. But it's actually a decent beat structurally. But nothing sounds like this beat in music ever. I should make that shit.
- [60:23]
Cole Kushna
Um, but, yeah, what's your. I mean, I guess you're interpreting Doom's lyrics just like we are, but. So what is the idea behind this Ain't rocket science More like a rocket with a silence
- [60:35]
Featured Vocalists (e.g., MF Doom, Denzel Curry)
it's more like a rocket with a silence let's avoid violence they got me in the right place with the wrong timing A click full of criminals Iron sharpen iron this ain't
- [60:45]
IDK
rocket science it's more like a rocket with a silence. Like, it's dead deep it's impactful, but it's quiet like the beat. Like what, what? How it felt, the story it's like again, that line like, I tried K2 on my bday is a deep line, bro. Yeah, for me, like, don't know on parole, about to hit starting to lose my mind it's close to you know what I'm saying? Like conductor why the judge try to make a nigga suffer 16, but I mean 15, but I'm 17 what a crazy deal Then a tray full of green Liver. What a crazy meal. Because if you've been in prison and then you get them, that liver day is the worst day. No one wants that shit. Just give me a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. I'm cool. I'll rock with the milk and peanut butter and jelly sandwich. It's already mixed together and shit looks just like. It's only peanut butter, but it's fire. And it's like the fucking livers really literally looks green, bro. It's like, terrible. It's the worst. I don't know. Some people eat that. Some people just destroy everybody's like, yo, you just give it to this guy. Garbage disposal. Like, I remember that, you know? Green lover. What a crazy meal. Imagine being black in the cell and right down a block is where the Aryans dwell. And you ain't got five, but the Aryans line is real thing. I was. I was in. I was in when I went in. First day. When I went from jail to state prison, there was. So you wake up like four or five in the morning for breakfast. That's when they serve breakfast. So you gotta wake up from your sleep or some. Most people sleep in. But if you want that breakfast, wake up from your sleep and you walk to what they call a chow hall. You walk in a chow hall and you see everybody sitting. It's all politics. It's all gang politics. I remember my first time. I was so not macho, but trying to make sure I, like, overly prove that I was comfortable, that I was just like, whatever, man. Cause I'm here, bro. This is where people getting raped, people getting stabbed, people. All kinds of shit. I gotta be. I'm not in no gang. So I'm like. The best thing I could do is be as comfortable as possible and have no sign of fear. Was I afraid? I think by the time I got there, because you go through processing, I knew not to be afraid. So I wasn't afraid. I actually was relieved because it's way better in prison than jail. Because prison is meant for you to be there for a long time. So it's a lot more comfortable, a lot more to do, you know. And I remember going to the chow hall by myself, and it's time to go sit down. And there's these two white guys. I just go put my tray down, what's up? You know, they barely wanted to say, what's up? They said, what's up? And then they just got up and left and moved to another table. And then later on, I could see the guy by his bunk, you know, he had a tank top on. He took off his shirt, tank top on, and he was going to change, and there's like two thunderbolts on his neck. Which means that basically, in the Aryan Brotherhood, you've killed two people in prison, but it's the Aryan and then swastika on the other side. And I was like, oh, they're Aaron. That's why they got up. But they got up because they. In that particular prison, they weren't powerful. And I'm black, so they don't know who I belong to. They probably looking at it like, we don't want to. There was literally only two of them, but that's what I meant, that's what that came from. You know, imagine me in black in the cell, and right down the block is where the Aryans dwell. And you ain't got 500k for the bell, by the way. There's no bail in. I mean, you could. There's situations where you have bail in prison, but it's just me saying, because there was a time where I had $300,000 plus another $200,000 bail you could find. You could look this shit up. It's like online, and they're like, you know, you ain't got 500k for the bell, and you ain't like the one that. You are not the one that like to play show and tell. I really love that project. I mean, that song specifically, because I am still giving people bars that are clever and using wordplay, but I'm telling the story at the same time. So those are the two layers.
- [65:08]
Cole Kushna
Yeah, but, yeah, well, the imagery. Yeah, I think it's some of your best writing. This whole second half of the album is, I think, some of your best writing. Because it's just. Yeah, the storytelling aspect just. But just the imagery and the emotion, you know, especially around that, like, you know, the. The B day line, that stuff like that, you know. Okay, let's. Let's get to misogynistical. So I did. I actually did think about this as an inverse of Clover.
- [65:37]
IDK
Damn, you're good, bro.
- [65:38]
Cole Kushna
So the. So this for the listeners, like, essentially tells this story of a relationship with this woman over three verses, each verse being like a different time period of this relationship, different aspect of it.
- [65:51]
Featured Vocalists (e.g., MF Doom, Denzel Curry)
Gather round. I got a story to tell of why I pray my first love go to hell. I was in the county I was up in my cell and then I got a little envelope in the mail. It read, j, I really miss you I can't wait to kiss you and what you going through.
- [66:06]
Cole Kushna
I have a process question. Like, when you know you're gonna tell this story, you say you write all in your head, like, how. How are you developing this so that you can have these. Essentially, every verse ends with a little twist. So, like, how did you put. Put it together?
- [66:19]
IDK
If you've ever been like, people. There's gonna be people watching this that's been in the studio with me. I don't fucking know how this shit. I'm serious, bro. It's scary. Like, the ability to do that. And I need to probably livestream me in the studio one day for people to really understand. Like, no, I really with this guy, because I think if you see that, you'll realize, like, I have. I've accepted. I have a gift. I think I'm kind of, like, kind of thinking about it, but there's this weird subconscious thing that I. That I tap into, and the shit just starts flowing and coming out, and it starts making sense, and then it starts realizing. That's why I say it's like therapy for me. I'm not sitting down for two weeks like this. I don't know the last time I've done this. I'm not.
- [67:12]
Cole Kushna
Right.
- [67:13]
IDK
I'm not doing that. It's. My mind works too fast for me to sit down, and I would have lost everything by the time I'm done writing this.
- [67:21]
Cole Kushna
Okay.
- [67:22]
IDK
I think my conscious, myself subconscious works faster than I can even think, and that's literally how it's happening. Like, people are watching this that have been in the studio with me. You know what I'm talking about? That's what I do. And it's. For me, it's unbelievable, but I accept it.
- [67:43]
Cole Kushna
Yeah.
- [67:44]
IDK
So I was just, like, thinking about my situation. I actually wrote two songs on that in that session. I wrote this verse. I was like, all right, I don't want to talk about that. Okay. I like that I do that often. I do, like, multiple verses.
- [67:58]
Cole Kushna
So you're saying there is a different concept to the same beat? Yeah, I didn't like. And then you.
- [68:03]
IDK
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
- [68:05]
Cole Kushna
Yeah.
- [68:06]
IDK
I'm not one of those guys who struggle to make a verse.
- [68:09]
Cole Kushna
Okay.
- [68:10]
IDK
You know?
- [68:10]
Cole Kushna
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's pretty incredible. I mean, even if you told me you wrote it down, it's still incredible. But, yeah, knowing it comes just kind of flows out. But I do like it does. And again, we're now on the back half of the album. You're showing a little bit more introspection and, like, perspective on these stories, because calling back To Clover, where you're kind of like womanizing and conquering through sex. You do that to her in the second verse, but then you kind of spill in the third verse. Kind of articulate exactly what you're doing in terms of. Like you say, me ain't never at home you always around Though I was never down to take a chance on giving out my heart Always thought I would never be in love was always
- [68:58]
IDK
smart Sometimes people that love will be the ones that make you sour but for every day I breathe I ain't giving them that power and giving them that peace of mind Till I get a peace of mind so I tell them peace after I get a piece of her behind it ain't easy to love no trust nobody, right? So why the hell would I ever go and love somebody? That's why I have trouble remembering lyrics. So I'm not writing this. Right, right, right.
- [69:26]
Featured Vocalists (e.g., MF Doom, Denzel Curry)
Sometimes people that sweet will be the ones that make you sour but for every day I breathe I ain't giving them that power ain't giving them that peace of mind Till I get a piece of mine so I tell a piece after I get a piece of her behind it ain't easy to trust nobody so why the would I ever go and love somebody?
- [69:43]
IDK
I look on my IG and see this really happened. Like, I saw my ex. I saw a friend post something. I'm like, who's that? Oh, that's like, damn, she's married now, you know.
- [69:54]
Cole Kushna
Yeah. But you would only say if you felt that way about it. Right?
- [69:59]
IDK
So I think there's an inner part of me that maybe wants to feel away about it. I'm not a hater, but I love that the inner part of me in this project, on this song particularly, it's like, why in the hell would I envy you? You know what I'm saying? I have all this stuff. Why would I envy you?
- [70:17]
Cole Kushna
Yeah.
- [70:17]
IDK
Like, I know heaven is a thing and you look like you came out of hell. What a shame. So why in the hell would I envy you? And then it goes to the end. And at the end of the day, none of this matters if you don't find the person. And to me and have children and all these other things, these are the. All this stuff is okay, whatever, cool. And I've. And I embrace and I appreciate it. But at the end of the day, what's most, most important? I think love. Yeah. You know, so that was me kind of like. Yeah. Why would I envy you? I don't. Yeah. Look at what I'm doing. Yeah. Yeah. You did that to me. Now look at me. That's my fuel. She broke up with me in. When I was on 23 hour lockdown. She came to visit me to break up with me. I never forgot that. You know, that was. That's why love for me. I'm like, I'm so tough when it comes to like that. It can't be no worse. It doesn't get no worse than having to think about that behind bars on 23 hour lockdown, not knowing when you're gonna get out.
- [71:15]
Cole Kushna
Yeah. So, yeah, it's a beautiful song. Then we get into life for life. Love this song.
- [71:22]
IDK
Thank you.
- [71:22]
Cole Kushna
So there's some survivors. Guilt in it, but I'm curious. Just. I'll just lay out a general question about it. Like, what is the song's concept? What's the theme?
- [71:30]
IDK
And like, I'm not dissing Drake.
- [71:32]
Cole Kushna
Okay.
- [71:36]
IDK
I'm seeing some wow.
- [71:37]
Cole Kushna
Theories about this. But yeah, just lay out the song's concept because I. I didn't quite get a grasp on it. So I just wanted to ask you flat out, like, at this point in the project, like, what is. What's the idea behind.
- [71:49]
IDK
So there's a saying when you get locked up, if it ain't life, it ain't long. So the idea is as long as you don't have life, you'll do. It's a short amount of time. It helps you get through the time that you have to do because you'll be back in no time. When it's time for you to be back, you'll be like, oh, that wasn't that long. Not really, but right, right, right. Yeah, definitely. The people that weren't in there with you would be like, oh, shoot, so and so's back. Damn, that went. He walked that time down. So it's about the mentality, life for a life. You can get life for a life, right? But also if someone takes your life or takes a life, you take a life back. So this is again, double entendre. Yeah. Life for a life. Life from the judge, forget. For taking someone's life or someone on your side gets a life taken, then you go back and take another life. It's the cycle of the mentality.
- [72:45]
Featured Vocalists (e.g., MF Doom, Denzel Curry)
See, I don't know why they cry till we see them die. We will not be satisfied. If they try to take a life, then we gots to take a life. If it ain't life, then every sentence, life.
- [72:57]
IDK
That's why I start saying this, like, I don't know why they cry. Until we see him die we will not, we will not be satisfied if they try to take a life they just try to take a life Then we gotta take a life if it ain't life then every sentence light make a nigga take flight if he try to take ice Stacking up my cash Making money off your bice Selling whatever fuck a double back Niggas coming back thrice coming back three times four times five four times five equals 20 on your head Guaranteed to leave them dead I wish I could change this is where I start to let you know I'm not embracing this I wish I could change how a nigga like to live the problem is the change ain't enough to pay the bills so for what the ice worth he gonna leave your body Chill me, I'm bumping jazz While my bitch clean the house she keep it fresh she don't know my niggas en route to leave a mess Wish that I could change how they think it got me stressed because they live inside of hell While my life is hella blessed I'm acknowledging that I don't have this mentality. So much so that I could see all the problems that are happening in certain neighborhoods or certain communities based off of this mentality of life for life. And that was me expressing that.
- [74:23]
Cole Kushna
Yeah. Yeah. Why push a T for the song?
- [74:28]
IDK
Heard the beat. Usually it starts with the beat.
- [74:30]
Cole Kushna
Yeah.
- [74:31]
IDK
I thought it made sense for the beat because you never know what verse someone's gonna turn in. You don't know if they're gonna stay on theme, you know? Right, right. So you kind of.
- [74:38]
Cole Kushna
Do you give direction to your collaborators?
- [74:40]
IDK
If I'm in a studio, I have to feel. Have to feel it out. Because some people like that. Some people just want to do them right. So I gotta. I gotta use discernment.
- [74:49]
Cole Kushna
Right.
- [74:50]
IDK
I didn't have to say nothing with him. I just told him, this is the record, and then he came back, killed it. Yeah, he did his thing.
- [74:57]
Cole Kushna
Okay, so everybody knows. And scrambled eggs. Everyone knows is so good. I love the beat.
- [75:02]
IDK
Thank you.
- [75:03]
Cole Kushna
I didn't even know that was RZ on the song until I saw the credit. Never heard him. That voice from him before. It's super sick. Some of my favorite lines on the whole album are on this song. Gotta ask you about I don't confuse liberation with a slut the English language that we know today is fucked so before I ever say hello I need to know what's up I don't confuse
- [75:24]
Featured Vocalists (e.g., MF Doom, Denzel Curry)
liberation with a slut the English language that we know today is fucked. So before I ever say hello, I need to know what's up.
- [75:31]
Cole Kushna
So can you break that down?
- [75:32]
IDK
I think that when I learned about. Especially in this past two years, what I've learned about the English language is people turn it into whatever they want to. For instance, they'll be like, you're misogynistic. Very few people I know actually hate women. I'm not saying that there aren't. They exist. But maybe they may have said something that obviously leans towards that which could be worded differently, but, you know, or manipulative or controlling or different things that people use or the one that we hear a lot, narcissists. You know, everyone kind of throws that out there. And I think what I meant by that is some of the things that people say twofold, like liberation. I don't confuse liberation with a slut. It's like there's an idea of sexually liberated and then there's an idea of just kind of doing things just because whatever that definition to somebody may be, and I think people picking and choosing when they want to use it as it fits them, as opposed to going by the definition. So that's really a setup bar for the rest of what I say. The English language that we know today is fucked. So before I ever say hello, before I ever say hello, I need to know what's up, because, hello, I need to know what's up. You get what I'm saying? I need to know who the individual that I'm dealing with. That whole song is this thing about realizing what the big part of the beginning song was. And it's funny because that song came from a conversation that I was having with somebody when I was completing this project. I was having a conversation with a guy, a finance guy, Swiss finance guy. And we were just talking and he was like. I told him the concept of the album. He was like, no matter what, though, I know you're a good guy. Even if the industry makes you feel a certain way, don't allow it to turn you into something else. That's what's gotten you to this far. And so he's like, you should write a song about kind of people in the industry and all these things, but don't. But at the same time, not allowing that to change you. So that's where everyone knows coming from. It's that conversation in my subconscious and freestyling.
- [78:01]
Cole Kushna
Nice.
- [78:02]
IDK
The song.
- [78:02]
Cole Kushna
Yeah, well, yeah, so, yeah, does. Does seem centered around authenticity. And so if we're like. I think of it as like, well, you're in this industry, you're presented with a new devil, which is like, exploit going back to the exploitation, still kind of like being, you know, cautious with movements and. And all that. So it does seem like we're like, narratively speaking, the timeline is like, okay, jail, Post jail. Now navigating music industry. And then we get to the final song, Scrambled Eggs. This song. Just got to tell you, like, such a beautiful song. Super powerful.
- [78:39]
IDK
Thank you.
- [78:40]
Cole Kushna
This is one of my favorite things about hip hop are songs like this, because we think of hip hop. Masses think of hip hop as a lot of bragging, and obviously there's part of it. But then you have songs like this. You have songs like Sing About Me, I'm Dying of Thirst. You have songs like 444. And so when someone, especially on this album, the way you set it up, that is. We've experienced so much of the bravado from. To get to this moment where the mask fully comes off, you know? And, like, I mean, is this. Is this. Are songs like this vulnerable? Hard to write.
- [79:15]
Featured Vocalists (e.g., MF Doom, Denzel Curry)
I still feel regret from the people I robbed My heart still hurt from the people I've harmed I still can't sleep from the pain that I've dealt and especially can't sleep from the person
- [79:26]
IDK
up it's clear to me that, no, no, no. I write music with the perspective that it'll never come out anyway. I don't know. So I just do what I feel. It's like, you know, dancing when no one's looking in the room or in the shower or whatever, you know, that's exactly what it is. So I'm just. I don't have to drop the song, so. Say what you feel. I'm so glad I made that song, man. Because that song, all it does is allows me to see the human being in myself still throughout all the things that I go through and I've been through. And it's just like, you know, understanding how feeling like you have everything at one point and then realizing that, yo, at the end of the day, anything could change. Your circumstances could change. Things could be taken away from you. Success could be taken away from you. And then you reflect, you know, I got in. For anybody that ever had to worry about the. That never had to worry about the rent or worry about the AC coming out the vent. That's so fucking powerful to say that to me, you know?
- [80:45]
Cole Kushna
Like, well, for me, it, like, contextualizes some of the reason. Like, for me, songs like this contextualize the entire album. Just contextualize the mindset that you're embodying in the first half of the album does stem from envy. It does stem from hurt, from loss, from. I mean, I always think about, like, anger is like a masculine expression of sadness, you know? And some people, even when you're feeling the anger, won't acknowledge that part of it. The anger is almost like this protection.
- [81:20]
IDK
Yeah.
- [81:20]
Cole Kushna
Always underneath it is. This is exactly this song.
- [81:24]
IDK
Facts, facts. And when I finally put it together, and it's like the lines that. I feel like there's a couple of them that mattered a lot to me. But even when I just said before I catch the blues, I changed my chances. I take my chances with white just to eat more green Take a hell of a bite But I'm blacker than coal so the sentence ain't light. You know, I'm freestyling this. So it's like, wow. I'm like, I'm keeping it in this theme, but I'm still saying the hard part of making it make sense and also the hard part of making it rhyme.
- [82:04]
Cole Kushna
Right.
- [82:04]
IDK
All in one thing. It's. My brain is doing three things at one time to get that line across. And. And then going into like. I still feel regret from the people I robbed My heart still hurts from the people I've harmed I still can't sleep from the pain that I've dealt and especially can't sleep from the person I. And it's like me being able to kind of say that made me feel like a lot of weight was off of my shoulders. Because I've never told nobody. I feel bad about these things. And in rap, you're not actually supposed to be like, yeah, I did this, I did that, I did it. And that was the first part of the record. It's like all of that, getting all that out the way so I can get to this place. Going through prison. It's basically all this project basically was, was me taking you through a 15 year sentence and showing you how redemption is important. Because the person that came in was this way. The person that came out is this way. Yeah, that's so many people that I know.
- [83:09]
Cole Kushna
It's beautiful, man. That's like. That is exactly why art exists. That's why a song like this works so well at the end of the album. It works on its own, but have the context to have the arc to get you to this moment. So powerful.
- [83:23]
IDK
I really want to say thank you for really looking at this this way, because I feel like so many people overlook the effort that I put in to these things. And I've just gotten to the point where I'm okay with just doing it for myself. Like, yeah, fuck it, man. Nobody will ever probably know what I'm really trying to say, man. Hopefully they like the songs. Hopefully they come to my shows. Hopefully they show me love, you know? But this you got. You actually allow a platform for people who may not be looking for these things to actually see it. Because this is what I do. This is really what I do. This is what my art is that the other things that people know me for. That's not really. It's not that deep. That. That's not the depth of why I do this. Ignorantly delivering knowledge is why I'll make a song like, shoot my shot with Offset on it and it's on the radio and all these things are happening, and then bring you to an album where I'm battling love. That was. You see for yourself. I'm battling with the concept of love, not coming to the conclusion that God and love are the same thing. Is he real? Was about battling this conversation with God, not understanding. Is he real? You see for yourself. Is he real? You see for yourself, whoever listened, listen, I'm battling with the concept back and forth. For every point that I make that makes you believe that I believe in God, I make just as compelling of a point where I don't. And it's the back and forth and taking the time to do that and taking the time to make sure every. The last letter of every word spells UC for yourself.
- [84:56]
Cole Kushna
We can talk about that.
- [84:57]
IDK
Knowing, you see for yourself is coming out. And it's about love. So many people were stuck on. He can't stick to one sound on an album, so he can't make an album. And I'm like, I'm taking it further than that. I'm showing you I can do all of this and stay on one subject. But so many people's ears and minds are not trained to be able to look at it that way. So they can only go by the references. I thought people would figure it out, and it seemed like a lot of people never did. So now I put this record together, I'm like, all right, I'm gonna show you I could make one thing right. Yes, there's different sounds even within that one thing, but this is the one thing. Here you go.
- [85:37]
Cole Kushna
Yeah.
- [85:37]
IDK
That was the challenge. Here's the challenge. And putting all the other stuff that I've done, and I think it's. That's why a lot of people were grabbed. They Were so stuck on why do you have a song with Burner Boy and it's an afrobeat song, but then before it was Tyler and then it was you and Pusha T. Right. And then the beat changed to this and then that was kind of like Playboi Carti. And I'm basically showing you pop culture and then telling my story and whatever compelling thoughts that I may have. Yeah, but you know, that's why this is important. Like, even if it's just you, I feel good that somebody gets.
- [86:11]
Cole Kushna
There's some of us out there, but. Well, it's also. I think the reason why I focus on hip hop so much is because I don't think a lot of that stems from, like hip hop not being taken seriously as an art form. People not thinking rappers are working on this level.
- [86:24]
IDK
Yeah.
- [86:25]
Cole Kushna
Just generally speaking. Not everyone does. But there's enough people taking this art form very seriously and using the storytelling and conceptual potential in the genre, which I think is. I mean, there's no other genre where you can say so many words to me. And storytelling wise, that is such a powerful tool. People like yourself, people like Kendrick are maximizing that potential.
- [86:48]
IDK
Yeah.
- [86:49]
Cole Kushna
You know what I mean? But public perception obviously has a lot to do with history and stuff, but this black art form just doesn't get that type of respect.
- [86:58]
IDK
No, I appreciate you saying that. Just always, also, for anyone watching this, always remember this, you mentioned Kendrick as well. When you think about me, always remember that I'm also a Gemini. The best rappers are Gemini, period. I'm not even just saying that because if you look all the people who are able to do the thing that I do at a high level, they're all Gemini. Or maybe there's some people that are not Gemini that do it. But the concentration of Gemini. Yeah, ridiculous.
- [87:31]
Cole Kushna
Yeah, I'm Gemini too.
- [87:33]
IDK
Oh, yeah. That's why.
- [87:35]
Cole Kushna
Okay, well, speaking of Gemini, we got to get to. I'm going to talk about concept. This is going to tie it all together because we get to the last verse of the project where you say, essentially it feels like a poem, but you reveal the album title. Even the Devil Smiles, Even the Earth Cries. Evidence that our human characteristics are meant to live side by side. So we're getting this dichotomy. You're paying off the two halves of the album which show the two sides. You know, I don't know how much you want to talk about it, but you say one album title here, Even the Devil Smiles, and then you say Even the Earth cries. Well, okay, before we get to the album part of it. Why not angel? Why. Why'd you go earth instead of angel?
- [88:19]
IDK
Even a devil smiles Even earth cries Evidence that our human characteristics were meant to live side by side. I look to the left and the right the ground in the sky Words
- [88:28]
Cole Kushna
from my heart which angel would be the obvious play, Right?
- [88:31]
IDK
Yeah, I. I think that's. So my whole thing is what was. People are. Will be like, yo, I'm atheist. I don't believe in God. And I'm like, okay, that's fine. You don't have to believe in God. But this. Is it the word God? Is it religion that's tied to God that makes you say that? Because if you are really thinking about it, there's something that created this Earth. And I know for a fact. I know for a fact that this earth is. If it's not God, you can call it an engineer. It was engineered perfectly. And I remember being a kid, the first time I ever heard about God, it was raining and my aunt was like, that means God is crying. And I was like, who's God? And God is this and that. And then she goes into religion in heaven and hell. And if you're good, you go to heaven. If you're bad, you go to hell. And that was the start of a bunch of others. But it's just another way of saying God.
- [89:33]
Cole Kushna
Right?
- [89:33]
IDK
You know, it's God crying.
- [89:36]
Cole Kushna
Yeah. So then you say, look to the left, look to my right so maintaining this dichotomy idea Ground in the sky Words from my heart skip my brain and pass through my mouth As I ask the reason why the answer's always been idk and then beautifully tied up the entire narrative here. A name that I created While the uncertainty that imprisons me while behind bars Helped me say I'll be forever okay.
- [89:59]
IDK
I look to the left and the right the ground in the sky Words from my heart skip my brain and
- [90:04]
Featured Vocalists (e.g., MF Doom, Denzel Curry)
pass through my mouth As I ask
- [90:06]
IDK
the reason why the answer has always been I DK A name I created While the uncertainty that imprisoned me while behind bars Help me say I'll be forever okay. To be continued.
- [90:22]
Cole Kushna
I mean, I don't even know if I have a question about that. It's just so beautiful. And I love how it just ties a perfect bow on everything.
- [90:28]
IDK
Yeah. And I say, to be continued.
- [90:30]
Cole Kushna
Okay, so what you want to get into that?
- [90:32]
IDK
The vulnerability. I took you from this part of me to the vulnerability. And there's a reason why I ended with poetry. That's. That was written.
- [90:42]
Cole Kushna
Okay.
- [90:43]
IDK
Anytime I Write poetry. It's written.
- [90:45]
Cole Kushna
Okay.
- [90:48]
IDK
Because I can't freestyle poetry. Freestyle is great when it's a beat.
- [90:51]
Cole Kushna
Right. You don't really rap this.
- [90:53]
IDK
Yes, I'm saying this. So I wrote that. And remember I told you in the beginning, I started with poetry. That was the first time I ever did any bar, any lyric. So it was a full circle moment to end with that. There's a couple reasons why. And, you know, maybe you've seen it, maybe you know about it, but basically the last letters on every song.
- [91:20]
Cole Kushna
Yeah.
- [91:20]
IDK
Say something.
- [91:21]
Cole Kushna
Yeah. So let's. Well, let's get into that. So we'll put it up on the screen. Now, if you highlight essentially the last letter of every song, it spells out Jason Mills solo rap finale. I'm afraid to ask what that means because I. I don't.
- [91:38]
IDK
I'm afraid to answer. I'm not saying I don't never rap again. I'm not saying that. But I wanted to definitely do this particular thing and leave with a bang. Me putting. Put pieces together to make a rap album versus me working with, let's say, as Alchemist or Mad Liber. And it's a collaboration. You know, at this moment in my life, I'm more excited by those things than I am creating another rap, solely rap project. And this might actually, ironically, be the first solely rap project. Everything else has kind of always had other things happening. This is like rap. So I don't know. That's just where I'm at things. Certain things excite me. That's what I realized. I make the best music when I'm excited about the product producers. And that's kind of where I. Where I've gotten with this particular thing. Now, on the flip side, again, I take you from all of this aggression into vulnerability, and I end the album with to be continued. Because to be continued is the next chapter, which is what people are calling it now, Eddie, but even the earth cries. That's. That's the next next chapter. And it's going to be a lot different.
- [93:09]
Cole Kushna
Okay.
- [93:10]
IDK
But it's a conversation with this last project.
- [93:14]
Cole Kushna
Okay, well, as much as you want to say, because I know we're, you know, not. Not out yet, you haven't announced anything officially, but I am interested conceptually about what does that mean in conversation? Like, how is that. How is that tied together about my
- [93:28]
IDK
relationships, all the relationships I've ever been in in my life, and I'm sitting down and realizing, oh, my God, if you piece all this stuff together, this is my relationship with rap music.
- [93:43]
Cole Kushna
Interesting. Oh, okay. Solo rap finale.
- [93:47]
IDK
Yeah. And then my relationship with rap music,
- [93:50]
Cole Kushna
like, as a retrospective almost. If this is the finale.
- [93:53]
IDK
Yes.
- [93:54]
Cole Kushna
It's like an epilogue.
- [93:55]
IDK
But all of these things are things I've been through with real human beings.
- [94:01]
Cole Kushna
Right. So personifications that are also symbolic of. Okay. Interesting.
- [94:07]
IDK
All I want to say.
- [94:07]
Cole Kushna
Okay. All right. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, I do have. I just have to ask you, because I love the Easter egg type. I love the. When you do the track. So practically speaking, like, how did you do it? Because you're still. So the difficulty level seems like a 10 because you have an overall narrative, so you have the sequence of songs that. I'm sure you're not changing the order just to do the spelling. So, I mean, how did you lay all that out?
- [94:34]
IDK
See, it takes weeks. I. That's the other part that makes it sad sometimes because people don't know to name my songs and make them all make sense, but also make sense for the. It's the same way my lyrics are making sense on different levels, except, ironically, when you have all the music and it's time to name the project and say something, it's even harder than lyrics. For me, that's one thing. I can't freestyle. It's like a puzzle, and I have to write it down. It's like figuring out, okay, what word. Okay, this word makes sense for this concept. But then this thing needs to end at this.
- [95:15]
Cole Kushna
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [95:16]
IDK
Then I gotta. You know, and then you make a mistake, and then you realize how bad you are at spelling. And then you try to figure out. So whenever, like. Like distribution, label or whoever, people are like, yo, what's the names of the songs? I don't yet. Give me a second. That's the last thing I. I do is usually names.
- [95:36]
Cole Kushna
So did you have the track order? And then you kind of use the N messed with the titles of each song to do the Easter egg.
- [95:44]
IDK
Yes. But then don't forget. I also have to make sure that I'm prioritizing the feeling of the project and how things happen in sequence and still figuring out how to get the words to line up with this thing. And that. Man, I think that I may be the only person in the world
- [96:08]
Cole Kushna
who
- [96:08]
IDK
somehow figured out how to have 48 hours in a day instead of 24. And people who work with me, they. They. I think they know exactly what I mean. It's ridiculous the amount of. I do. Like, tomorrow I'm gonna arrange flowers. I told you why. But yeah, yeah. And do a plethora of Other shit.
- [96:31]
Cole Kushna
Yeah.
- [96:32]
IDK
But it's because I learned how to do that when I was locked up. I understood the value of time. That's one thing that. That did. Patience and the value of time. The value of planning. All I could do was plan for when I get out. I have my book. I wrote my own makeshift calendar. And every day I would check off the first day, like, whatever day I was there. And then if I was good that day, I check off the back day for a good day. Because you can cut your sentence down if you obviously good behavior, Right? So I take one off. Take one off, Take one off, Take one off, take one off. No write up today. Cool. Get a write up today. They. They. You go to the. The Basically you have court within the jail, and they're like, all right, this is your charges that are all right. We're taking away 15 good days. You got to take them good days back.
- [97:28]
Cole Kushna
Okay.
- [97:28]
IDK
That's how it works. And I learned in that moment the importance and value of time. So now when I'm out, I'm using the out of it. Anybody knows me, they know I use the out of my time.
- [97:42]
Cole Kushna
Yeah.
- [97:43]
IDK
I'd take calls in the shower, depending on who you are. I was talking to my lawyer, shout out to Josh Kamen, and he's like, are you in the shower? We cool enough? Not even that way to be able to. It's not very professional in other situations.
- [98:02]
Cole Kushna
All right, well, this was a beautiful conversation. I really appreciate all your time. I always ask, what's the biggest takeaway you want listeners to grapple with from this project?
- [98:12]
IDK
Man. Just please continue to have at least the expectation that there's layers to what I do. Yeah, Always. I don't care how simple the song sounds. There's a reason why I did that.
- [98:25]
Cole Kushna
Yeah.
- [98:26]
IDK
There's a reason. My name is ignorantly delivering knowledge that's real, that's intentional. I make music with intention, period. No matter what you may think it might be, there is intention, and I will not release it if there is no intention. That's it. That's all I want people to know.
- [98:44]
Cole Kushna
Yeah. Beautiful.
- [98:45]
IDK
Yeah.
- [98:45]
Cole Kushna
Appreciate your time, man.
- [98:46]
IDK
Thank you.
- [98:47]
Cole Kushna
Thanks.
- [98:47]
IDK
Appreciate it.