4 brand strategy tips from Smith & Diction

Summary

Dive Club 🤿 Episode 4 Summary: “4 Brand Strategy Tips from Smith & Diction”

Release Date: February 25, 2025
Host: Ridd
Guests: Mike and Cara from Smith & Diction

In the fourth episode of Dive Club, host Ridd sits down with Mike and Cara from the renowned design duo Smith & Diction. Known for their exceptional work on the Perplexity brand identity and collaborations with figures like Henry Modesty, Mike and Cara dive deep into their creative processes, offering invaluable insights into brand strategy and design. This summary encapsulates their key strategies, mental models, and creative philosophies discussed during the episode.

---

1. Personifying the Brand: Viewing Brands as Individuals

One of the foundational strategies Mike and Cara advocate is personifying the brand. Instead of describing a brand in abstract corporate terms, they recommend envisioning it as a person. This approach facilitates the use of more relatable and emotionally resonant descriptors.

Mike (00:26):
“Anytime you're developing, like, a brand tone or personality, you should picture it like you're describing your brand like a person, not like a brand. Because it's very easy to describe your brand as, like, tidy and clean, but, like, is that the words you would use to describe your best friend?”

For instance, when Smith & Diction were defining the Perplexity brand, Mike likened its personality to that of Malcolm Gladwell—intelligent, insightful, yet approachable.

Mike (00:41):
“It should basically feel like Malcolm Gladwell. Super informed, super, knows everything, but explains it to you in a way that makes really sense and it really resonates.”

Cara further emphasizes this by using real-life personalities to extract authentic traits that resonate on a deeper level.

Cara (01:15):
“If you look at someone like Simone Biles, the words that might come out of that are like, determined, focused, like strategic, measured, accurate. And those kinds of words as you're describing that person can help you go into a different territory.”

Ridd appreciates this tactic, noting that describing a person naturally leads to more nuanced and varied descriptors than traditional corporate language.

Host (01:05):
“When you're describing a person, it's much easier to reach for words that would definitely not come up if you're trying to describe your brand as this corporate identity.”

---

2. Targeted Communication: Writing to a Specific Audience

Another pivotal strategy Mike and Cara discuss is the importance of targeted communication. Rather than crafting generic messages, they advise writing as if addressing a specific individual, thereby enhancing emotional connection and clarity.

Cara (01:38):
“...she's writing to a very specific person. And that's a candidate reading your vision while considering accepting your job offer.”

For example, when Cara develops a company vision, she tailors it specifically for potential job candidates, aiming to evoke a strong emotional response that compels them to choose their company over others.

Mike (01:54):
“Your vision is the thing you should share with a new recruit. Be like, oh, here's what our vision is as a company. Here's our purpose. And they should be like, I'm canceling all my other interviews. I want to work with you.”

Ridd echoes this sentiment, highlighting the effectiveness of addressing specific individuals to communicate more compelling and relatable messages.

Host (02:03):
“Whether it's the hero section of your Portfolio or company mission statement. You're always going to communicate more effectively when you speak directly to a specific person.”

This approach ensures that brand communications are not only heard but felt, fostering deeper engagement and loyalty.

---

3. Brand Elements as Ingredients: Introducing “Moves”

Mike and Cara draw a compelling analogy between brands and ingredients in a recipe, emphasizing that a brand is not a static entity but an evolving composition that requires continuous development.

Mike (02:34):
“A brand isn't a thing that you go and you buy and then you're done with it. It's much more like food. Like, you have to make it again every single day...”

They introduce the concept of “moves”, a term they use to describe signature brand elements that transcend basic components like logos or color palettes. These moves are unique patterns, behaviors, or design elements that make a brand instantly recognizable and ownable.

Host (03:07):
“Carl said a key word that they use a lot. It's called moves. And it's their generic term for all of the other stuff. Beyond your logo, type and color palette, it's everything else that you can tie to the brand that feels ownable.”

Mike (03:23):
“How do you create a thing that doesn't have your new logo on it but still feels like you?... you have moves that you can do and use in a lot of different ways.”

An exemplary illustration of this is the subtle geometric pattern integrated into the Perplexity product, adding depth and a unique texture that reinforces the brand's identity without overpowering it.

Cara (03:54):
“It's super, super subtle. And if they didn't have, it would feel, like, slightly less perplexed.”

This metaphor underscores the need for brands to continuously experiment and refine their elements, ensuring that each "ingredient" contributes meaningfully to the overall flavor of the brand.

---

4. Embracing Creativity: The Creativity Faucet Concept

Mike and Cara advocate for a prolific generation of ideas, embracing the notion that not all ideas will be successful, but the process is invaluable for uncovering those that resonate best.

Host (04:13):
“It's why I love the idea of the creativity faucet so much. It's this idea that you have to get through all of the bad ideas as quickly as possible in order to get to the good stuff.”

Mike (04:51):
“If you're just like I need to make the perfect thing, it's really hard. If you're like I made a million, million things then we can all as a team look at it and decide which are the things worth saving.”

This approach encourages designers to generate a vast array of ideas, knowing that only a select few will align perfectly with the brand's vision. Cara shares her personal strategy of producing numerous iterations to refine her concepts:

Cara (06:38):
“I'm giving a talk or something. People are like, well, how'd you make that? And I'm like, because I made 60 of them.”

This relentless pursuit of creativity ensures that the final brand outputs are not only innovative but also deeply aligned with the brand’s core values and personality.

---

5. Pushing Boundaries: Challenging Norms and Embracing Unconventional Ideas

A significant theme in Mike and Cara's philosophy is the willingness to push boundaries and challenge conventional design norms. They believe that breaking the rules, when done thoughtfully, can lead to more authentic and memorable brand identities.

Cara (06:43):
“Like, just have fun and, like, put millions of gradients inside of it. A lot of the times people just say, well, the brand guidelines are so narrow. And, like, stop it. If it actually looks good, people will let it fly.”

This fearless approach to creativity involves experimenting with unconventional elements and trusting the design process, even when facing skepticism or criticism. By doing so, Smith & Diction create brands that stand out and leave a lasting impression.

---

Key Takeaways

1. Personify Your Brand: View your brand as an individual to use more authentic and varied descriptors.
2. Targeted Communication: Craft messages aimed at specific individuals to enhance emotional resonance and effectiveness.
3. Continuous Brand Development: Treat brand elements as ongoing ingredients and introduce unique “moves” to maintain brand uniqueness.
4. Prolific Idea Generation: Embrace the generation of numerous ideas to filter and select the most impactful ones.
5. Push Creative Boundaries: Challenge conventional norms to create distinctive and memorable brand identities.

Through these strategies, Mike and Cara from Smith & Diction demonstrate a dynamic and thoughtful approach to brand strategy and design, offering invaluable lessons for designers and brands aiming to elevate their identity and connection with audiences.

---

For more insights and resources, visit Dive.club.

Transcript

[Host]

When it comes to brand design, Mike and Cara from Smith and Diction are pretty much top of the game. Now, you might recognize that name from the episodes with Henry Modesty and figure on because they're the ones who designed the Perplexity brand identity. And during our interview, it didn't take me long to realize that these two have more hacks and mental models for creativity and brand strategy than pretty much anyone that I know. So here are a few of my favorites.

[Mike]

Anytime you're developing, like, a brand tone or personality, you should picture it like you're describing your brand like a person, not like a brand. Because it's very easy to describe your brand as, like, tidy and clean, but, like, is that the words you would use to describe your best friend?

[Host]

Let's hear who they pick for Perplexity.

[Mike]

As an example, somebody was like, well, how did you come up with, like, what perplexity should feel like? And I was like, it should basically feel like Malcolm Gladwell. Super informed, super, knows everything, but explains it to you in a way that makes really sense and it really resonates. And you're like, yeah, okay, I feel great, and I want to listen to his podcast and read his book, but he's like, super, super smart, so that can be helpful to feel like, oh, yeah, that's who our brand is encapsulated by a human being that I can picture and I can reference.

[Host]

And the reason I like this tactic is when you're describing a person, it's much easier to reach for words that would definitely not come up if you're trying to describe your brand as this corporate identity.

[Cara]

If you look at someone like Simone Biles, the words that might come out of that are like, determined, focused, like strategic, measured, accurate. And those kinds of words as you're describing that person can help you go into a different territory. I would never think of the word accurate if I wasn't trying to describe someone who has precision in, like, their.

[Host]

Another mental model that Mike and Cara use that I'm definitely stealing has to do with writing. See, when Cara is working on a vision for a company, she's writing to a very specific person. And that's a candidate reading your vision while considering accepting your job offer.

[Mike]

What is your vision? Your vision is the thing you should share with a new recruit. Be like, oh, here's what our vision is as a company. Here's our purpose. And they should be like, I'm canceling all my other interviews. I want to work with you.

[Host]

Whether it's the hero section of your Portfolio or company mission statement. You're always going to communicate more effectively when you speak directly to a specific person. So I love this idea of asking myself, what would it take for a candidate to cancel their other interviews and accept the job on the spot?

[Mike]

We're always putting that emotion into things. It shouldn't just be a. A plan. It should be a thing that makes somebody feel something.

[Host]

One of my other favorite parts of the conversation was how Mike and Carl referred to brand elements as ingredients.

[Mike]

A brand isn't a thing that you go and you buy and then you're done with it. Like, it not like that. It's much more like food. Like, you have to make it again every single day. It can be great and you can get better at it, and the more, you know, moves that you have in your kitchen, the better your meals are going to be. But, like, you still have to keep making it. And I think a lot of people think, like, oh, if I buy a beautiful brand, then, like, making everything will be easy and I never have to invest in this ever again. And that's like the opposite. Like, it should be, like, great. I have these, the most amazing brand ingredients, and I can't wait to poke with them every day.

[Host]

In that last clip, Carl said a key word that they use a lot. It's called moves. And it's their generic term for all of the other stuff. Beyond your logo, type and color palette, it's everything else that you can tie to the brand that feels ownable.

[Mike]

How do you create a thing that doesn't have your new logo on it but still feels like you? And that's how you know you're starting to develop moves in your brands that, like, oh, what is it? Like, it's a signature way that this skews or it's this pattern, or it's this brand element, or it's this swoop or it's this, you know, collage, photography, whatever it is that feels like it's not just my logo and my color. And that's, like, all you have, but you have moves that you can do and use in a lot of different ways.

[Host]

An example of this would be the subtle geometric pattern you see sprinkled throughout the Perplexity product.

[Cara]

It's super, super subtle. And if they didn't have, it would feel, like, slightly less perplexed.

[Host]

Now, the funny thing about those patterns is that Mike mentioned how Armin, from the popular publication Brand New thought the patterns were kind of bogus, which is going to happen a lot as you're figuring out what the right moves are for your brand.

[Cara]

I'll be honest, a lot of the times like you know, they'll have like a product designer or something on staff and they're just like, why would I Repeat the type 20 times? And I'm just like oh no, it's like a train. Like it's like the, the repetition of a train. So it's like the types going over and over and over again. I'm like what the fuck are you talking about? And I'm just like okay, nevermind, nevermind, forget it, forget it, forget it, forget. So then like things like that will get cut, but you gotta try it, you gotta try that stuff.

[Host]

It's why I love the idea of the creativity faucet so much. It's this idea that you have to get through all of the bad ideas as quickly as possible in order to get to the good stuff. That's a defining characteristic of how Smith and Diction operates.

[Mike]

If you're just like I need to make the perfect thing, it's really hard. If you're like I made a million, million things then we can all as a team look at it and decide which are the things worth saving. I'm like okay, throw this stuff away, let's go in on that. This is interesting.

[Host]

Real quick message and then we can jump back into it. As if Raycast could get any better. They just released a feature that I've been wanting for years and it's called Raycast Focus. It helps you stay in flow by blocking distracting apps and websites. It's goal based, works in your browser and it's always a keyboard shortcut away. And my favorite part is they even have a little floating bar to give you a quick glance of how much time is left in your your goal. I'm already using this every day and it's just another reason why you should definitely download Raycast if you haven't already. Just head to Dive Club Focus to learn more. So this new product called Genway has totally changed the way that I do research. It uses AI powered interviewers to help you gather rich qualitative data at basically an infinite scale. You can even interview people while they use your FIGMA prototypes. Just tell the AI what you're hoping to test and it will have a dynamic conversation with each person as they're going through your prototype. You should see the quality of the follow up questions that the AI asks. It is really something. And the best part is they just introduced a self serve onboarding so you can get started right away and they're even offering two months free for Dive Club listeners. Just head to Dive Club Genway to get that special offer. That's G, E N W A Y. Okay, now on to the episode. It feels like every time I open Twitter, somebody is praising Mike's work. And after talking with him, I think there's two reasons he's one of the greats. The first is he gets through a lot of ideas.

[Cara]

I'm giving a talk or something. People are like, well, how'd you make that? And I'm like, because I made 60 of them.

[Host]

The second is he's not afraid to push the boundaries, even if it means breaking the rules a bit. So before I let you go, I want to end with one of my favorite clips from any episode.

[Cara]

Like, I was working on our end of year, like, post. I was like, what if it was just bonkers? You know what I mean? Like, just do that. Why not make it weird if it's like, have fun and, like, put millions of gradients inside of it. A lot of the times people just say, well, the brand guidelines. The brand guidelines are so narrow. And, like, stop it. If it actually looks good, people will let it fly.