Dive Club Episode Summary: Diego Zaks - How Ramp is Winning with Design

Released on December 4, 2024

Introduction to the Episode and Guest

In this insightful episode of Dive Club, host Rid engages in a deep conversation with Diego Zaks, the Vice President of Design at Ramp, the fastest-growing startup renowned for its innovative approach to corporate finance solutions. Diego, who joined Ramp as the second designer, shares his journey, the evolution of Ramp's design culture, and the strategies that have propelled Ramp to its current success.

Diego's Journey to Ramp

Diego begins by recounting his professional path leading up to Ramp. Previously involved with Paribus and another fintech startup, Diego's passion for redesigning expense reports—stemming from his own frustrating experiences—drove him towards Ramp. Reflecting on his early interactions, Diego shares:

“I came from a place where I’d done expense reports for work and how as a designer, I was particularly vulnerable to those bad experiences and wanted it to go away. Maybe a little bit of spite, I really want to disrupt this thing. I hate this so much.”
(00:00:00)

This genuine desire to simplify and improve a cumbersome process laid the foundation for Ramp's design philosophy.

Ramp's Design Philosophy and Culture

Upon joining Ramp, Diego spearheaded a comprehensive redesign aimed at simplifying the user experience. Over three months, he and his team focused on making processes seamless:

“Just make it seamless. One click, one card, one click, one receipt. That was it. As much as I could reduce.”
(00:04:56)

Diego emphasizes the importance of ownership and empowerment within the design team. At Ramp, designers are entrusted with substantial portions of the product, fostering a sense of responsibility and commitment. This approach contrasts sharply with traditional models where design work might be fragmented or outsourced, leading to a lack of accountability.

Empowerment and Prioritization in Design

A key theme in Diego's leadership is the balance between focus and flexibility. Ramp maintains a deliberately small design team relative to its size, ensuring each designer has significant ownership over their projects. Diego explains:

“Every designer, no matter the level, they own a portion of the product that's pretty substantial. So it's really giving them total ownership and trust over a considerable part of our product and a part of our revenue.”
(00:13:41)

By keeping the team small, Ramp ensures that designers must prioritize effectively, choosing what truly matters to the company's growth and user satisfaction. This strategy prevents the dilution of efforts and maintains high standards across the board.

Feedback and Collaboration Mechanisms at Ramp

Diego delves into the feedback culture at Ramp, highlighting the structured yet flexible systems in place to foster collaboration:

1. Design Critiques (Crits): Formal sessions where designers present their work to leadership for feedback.
2. Truth-Seeking Pods: Small, trusted groups of designers who regularly critique each other's work, emphasizing honesty and constructive criticism.
3. Async Feedback Channels: Platforms like Slack where designers can share Loom videos and seek input asynchronously.
4. Open Sessions: Live meetings where any designer can present their work for immediate feedback.

“The most important thing when getting feedback is to very clearly define what is it that you're optimizing for. Why does this thing that you are working on need to exist?”
(00:27:57)

Diego underscores the importance of defining goals and focusing feedback on whether a feature or design genuinely serves the user's needs, rather than getting bogged down in superficial tweaks.

Balancing Velocity and Quality

Addressing the common perception that velocity and quality are opposites, Diego shares Ramp's approach:

“I used to subscribe to this way of thinking that spending more time on something makes it better. If you're in Figma pushing Pixels around for longer, it doesn't necessarily make it better.”
(00:35:49)

Instead of equating prolonged effort with quality, Ramp prioritizes user feedback and iterative improvements. By rapidly deploying features, gathering real user data, and swiftly addressing issues, Ramp ensures that quality emerges organically from genuine user interactions rather than theoretical perfection.

Hiring Principles and Team Growth

Diego elaborates on Ramp's hiring philosophy, which prioritizes growth potential over immediate skillsets:

“If you find someone who has the skillset you need now, that's great. But if you find someone who's going to learn the skillset you need quickly, they're the ones that are going to be able to evolve as the company evolves.”
(00:43:37)

Ramp seeks individuals with a demonstrated ability to learn and adapt, valuing traits like self-motivation, obsession for improvement, and the ability to become highly skilled in their interests. This approach ensures that the team remains dynamic and capable of handling the company's rapid growth and shifting priorities.

Cultivating a Collaborative and Trust-Based Environment

A cornerstone of Ramp's success is its collaborative culture. Diego stresses the importance of trust and vulnerability within the team:

“They can give feedback that is with the best intentions in mind. I've heard of really just horrible toxic cultures where people are trying to advance at the expense of everyone else.”
(00:47:04)

By fostering an environment where designers feel safe to express doubts, seek help, and collaborate without fear of judgment, Ramp cultivates a creative and innovative workspace. This culture not only enhances individual performance but also drives collective excellence.

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

As the conversation wraps up, Diego reflects on the transformative power of a strong design culture:

“That's the kind of place that I want to be at, where people are teaching each other... and then just sit back and let it happen.”
(00:49:11)

Rid appreciates Diego's insights, acknowledging the effectiveness of Ramp's strategies and expressing admiration for the team's accomplishments.

Key Takeaways

1. Ownership and Empowerment: Granting designers substantial responsibility fosters commitment and high-quality output.
2. Iterative Design Process: Rapid deployment, user feedback, and swift iteration lead to genuine quality improvements.
3. Structured Collaboration: Diverse feedback systems, from formal critiques to informal pods, enhance design quality.
4. Growth-Oriented Hiring: Prioritizing adaptability and learning ability ensures the team can evolve with the company's needs.
5. Trust-Based Culture: Encouraging vulnerability and honest feedback cultivates a creative and supportive work environment.

Notable Quotes

• Diego Zaks:
  “Creating focus and choosing the right things to work on is the most important job that you can do at a startup or at a tech company, no matter the size.”
  (00:00:00)

• Diego Zaks:
  “Just make it seamless. One click, one card, one click, one receipt. That was it. As much as I could reduce.”
  (00:04:56)

• Diego Zaks:
  “Every designer, no matter the level, they own a portion of the product that's pretty substantial. So it's really giving them total ownership and trust over a considerable part of our product and a part of our revenue.”
  (00:13:41)

• Diego Zaks:
  “The most important thing when getting feedback is to very clearly define what is it that you're optimizing for. Why does this thing that you are working on need to exist?”
  (00:27:57)

• Diego Zaks:
  “I used to subscribe to this way of thinking that spending more time on something makes it better. If you're in Figma pushing Pixels around for longer, it doesn't necessarily make it better.”
  (00:35:49)

• Diego Zaks:
  “If you find someone who has the skillset you need now, that's great. But if you find someone who's going to learn the skillset you need quickly, they're the ones that are going to be able to evolve as the company evolves.”
  (00:43:37)

• Diego Zaks:
  “They can give feedback that is with the best intentions in mind. I've heard of really just horrible toxic cultures where people are trying to advance at the expense of everyone else.”
  (00:47:04)

Conclusion

This episode offers a comprehensive look into how Diego Zaks and his team at Ramp have leveraged thoughtful design practices, empowered collaboration, and a strong cultural foundation to drive remarkable growth and user satisfaction. For designers and tech enthusiasts alike, Diego's insights provide valuable lessons on fostering innovation and excellence within a rapidly scaling organization.