Dive Club Episode Summary: Gunnar Gray - Designing Perplexity, Shaders, and Voice Interfaces
Host: Ridd
Episode Release Date: July 18, 2025
Podcast Description: Dive Club is an interview series hosted by Ridd that aims to unlock knowledge from today's most prolific designers. The series delves deep into craft, storytelling, tools, design engineering, startups, and much more.
Episode Focus: Gunnar Gray discusses his role in designing for Perplexity, including his work on shaders, voice interfaces, and the importance of being a generalist designer in the age of AI.
1. Gunnar Gray’s Journey at Perplexity
Gunnar Gray joined Perplexity as the lead mobile designer, stepping into a fast-paced environment with a small team. As one of the first few designers, Gunnar was quickly immersed in diverse tasks, reflecting the dynamic nature of a burgeoning startup.
Gunnar Gray [01:24]: "When I first joined at Perplexity, I was brought on to lead mobile design. So that was right in my wheelhouse and I joined the team as, like, the only mobile designer and then was immediately just like, dumped into the fire."
Key Points:
- Rapid onboarding with minimal formal training.
- Early projects included redesigning the Settings view and scaling the Discover feed.
- Emphasis on quick contribution and iterative learning.
2. Designing AI Products: Mindset Shifts
Gunnar emphasizes that designing AI-native products requires a fundamental shift in mindset. AI introduces outcome-driven interactions, context-awareness, and multimodal interfaces, necessitating a more fluid and dynamic design approach.
Gunnar Gray [09:01]: "AI native products as, as a new medium to design and build for and what those differences are from like the way we used to build."
Key Points:
- Transition from static design environments to dynamic, code-integrated workflows.
- Importance of rapid prototyping and close collaboration between design and engineering.
- Faster feedback loops facilitated by AI enable quicker iteration and refinement.
3. Voice Interfaces and Collaborative Design
A significant portion of the episode delves into Gunnar’s work on voice interfaces for Perplexity. He outlines the challenges and iterative processes involved in developing effective voice interactions.
Voice Mode Development:
- Version 1: Basic overlay with minimal interaction features.
- Version 2: Introduction of a tactile push-to-talk button to address latency issues and improve user experience.
Gunnar Gray [21:06]: "That second version of voice mode we knew it wasn't the end game, but we had to get something out to market, something that worked."
Version 3:
- Transition to hands-free mode enabled by advancements in technology.
- Implementation of a particle sphere visualizer using Metal shaders to provide dynamic and immersive feedback.
Gunnar Gray [24:36]: "I ended up landing on this like a particle sphere visualizer with, with metal shaders. And that instantly felt like the perfect form factor for voice."
Collaboration with Engineers:
- Close partnership with engineering teams to iterate on voice features.
- Continuous testing to uncover edge cases and improve performance.
Gunnar Gray [16:00]: "It's about going through those motions to uncover all those little moments."
4. Shader Design with Cursor
Gunnar explores the intersection of design and coding through the use of tools like Cursor. This approach allows for real-time prototyping and learning, bridging the gap between static design tools and dynamic code-based environments.
Gunnar Gray [27:39]: "It felt so empowering to be able to... just ask Cursor, build it along with me."
Key Points:
- Cursor lowers the barrier to entry for designers to engage with coding.
- Facilitates simultaneous building and learning, enhancing prototyping efficiency.
- Encourages experimentation with Metal shaders to create unique visual effects for voice interfaces.
5. Integrating Brand into Product Design
Gunnar discusses how Perplexity integrates its brand into product design beyond visual elements, focusing on delivering value and evoking curiosity through features like follow-up questions.
Gunnar Gray [38:52]: "The brand is very curiosity driven. So how do you evoke more curiosity? How do you bring that feeling into the product."
Key Points:
- Brand integration involves ensuring the product fulfills its promises in subtle, non-obvious ways.
- Features like follow-up questions encourage users to explore and ask deeper inquiries.
- Balancing personalization with content density to enhance user engagement and retention.
6. Embracing a Generalist Design Approach
In the age of AI and dynamic product environments, Gunnar highlights the immense value of being a generalist designer. The ability to contribute across various domains—from product and brand to engineering—enhances adaptability and innovation.
Gunnar Gray [37:14]: "A lot of our designers are writing code. Some of them are more design and engineering built, some of them are more product and brand built."
Key Points:
- Flexibility to tackle diverse tasks and projects.
- Cross-functional collaboration enriches the design process and outcomes.
- Encourages designers to continually expand their skill sets to stay relevant and effective.
7. Personal Growth and Continuous Learning
Gunnar’s journey underscores the importance of curiosity and self-directed learning. He shares his strategy for personal development, which involves setting annual goals to learn new skills and reinvent himself as a designer.
Gunnar Gray [50:08]: "I, I was really hoping that was going to be your answer... but you still say the thing that I'm investing in is more of the technical side of the craft carries a lot of weight in my mind."
Key Points:
- Commitment to annual self-improvement and skill diversification.
- Leveraging tools like Cursor to facilitate learning and application of new technologies.
- Experiencing firsthand the advantages of integrating coding with design.
8. Recent Contributions and Product Enhancements
Gunnar highlights his recent work on redesigning the Discover feed, which has led to improved user retention and engagement. He explains the rationale behind the changes and the impact of personalization and content density on user experience.
Gunnar Gray [42:38]: "We wanted to do it for a few different reasons... we needed just a little more dense of a feed to make that consumption path a little bit easier."
Key Points:
- Increased content volume necessitated a denser, more efficient feed design.
- Enhanced personalization algorithms to ensure relevant and engaging content delivery.
- Shortened story formats and introduced user-controlled content preferences to streamline consumption.
9. Future Directions and Closing Thoughts
Gunnar reflects on the evolving landscape of design in the AI era, emphasizing the need for designers to stay adaptable and continuously expand their toolkits. He encourages embracing new technologies and methodologies to enhance both personal growth and product innovation.
Gunnar Gray [35:39]: "I think it just goes to show like how much curiosity compounds on itself."
Key Points:
- Staying informed about industry trends and technological advancements is crucial.
- Balancing technical skills with creative and strategic thinking enhances design effectiveness.
- Encourages a perpetual learning mindset to navigate the rapidly changing design landscape.
Notable Quotes
- Gunnar Gray [00:23]: “You get a little taste of shaders and it's like the slipperiest slope in the world.”
- Ridd [37:06]: “The value of a generalist designer is unreal. Right? Like, you can contribute in so many different ways.”
- Gunnar Gray [41:39]: “It's still, yeah, it's still design. Design through, through prompting and like shaping.”
Conclusion
In this episode of Dive Club, Gunnar Gray provides invaluable insights into the multifaceted role of a designer in the AI-driven landscape. His experiences at Perplexity highlight the importance of versatility, continuous learning, and the seamless integration of design with engineering. For designers aspiring to thrive in dynamic environments, Gunnar’s journey serves as both inspiration and a practical roadmap.
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