Dive Club 🤿: Episode Summary

Title: How to be Great at Systems Thinking 💡
Host: Ridd
Release Date: February 4, 2025

Introduction to Systems Thinking

In this enlightening episode of Dive Club, host Ridd delves deep into the concept of systems thinking—a pivotal skill for designers aiming to create cohesive, scalable, and impactful products. Systems thinking transcends isolated problem-solving, encouraging designers to consider the broader ecosystem in which their designs exist.

The Essence of Systems Thinking

Ridd opens the discussion by highlighting a response from Balint, the co-founder of Craft Docs, emphasizing the significance of systems thinking in design:

Balint (00:06): "The most important thing for me, which I found super powerful in Designers, is what I call systems thinking. There are designers who make so beautiful animations and make the screen look like, like you want to lick it. But if you don't understand how things connect effortlessly and things get quite complicated quite soon..."

This underscores that while aesthetics are vital, understanding the interconnectedness of design elements ensures longevity and functionality.

Common Misconceptions and Clarifications

Ridd introduces a conversation with Rio Lu, the head of design at Cursor and an early designer at Notion, addressing the often vague understanding of systems thinking:

Rio Lu (00:57): "Knee jerk reaction is, yeah, I checked that box."

Ridd (00:40): "But there's also this little part of me that wonders, what does that really mean?"

This sets the stage for clarifying systems thinking by first exploring what it is not.

Systems Thinking vs. Linear Problem Solving

Joel Lewenstein, head of product design at Anthropic, contrasts systems thinking with the conventional approach many designers take:

Joel Lewenstein (00:57): "It's like the default mode for a lot of designers when they work on problems is they want to kind of, okay, let's focus on this one problem and then make a really, really good solution for that."

Joel Lewenstein (01:19): "When Notion, it was mostly system thinking, building the blocks. When you're building a product that serves so many different groups of users, so many different use cases, you can't think in one way or the other way. You need to come up with good systems to tie up all this."

Joel emphasizes that focusing solely on individual problems can lead to fragmented solutions, whereas systems thinking fosters a unified framework accommodating diverse user needs.

Case Study: Notion's Systematic Approach

Delving deeper, Joel elaborates on Notion's design philosophy:

Joel Lewenstein (02:12): "You can't build single purpose features in Notion and try to slap it on top of it because it will make the systems more complex. How we're thinking about how to solve these problems is we build systems to kind of wrap these different use cases up."

This approach ensures that each feature integrates seamlessly into the existing system, avoiding redundancy and maintaining simplicity.

Anticipating Future Needs through Systems Thinking

Ridd discusses how systems thinkers anticipate future product requirements by understanding the foundational blocks:

Joel Lewenstein (02:28): "Ideally the system has the fewest parts that does the most things you want."

Ridd (03:00): "Even if you're not designing a general-purpose tool like Notion, the best Designers dig deep to understand root level issues instead of solving each new problem as it sprouts."

This proactive mindset not only addresses current challenges but also prepares the product for scalable growth and diverse functionalities.

Practical Applications of Systems Thinking

Joel provides a concrete example from his work at Anthropic with the product Claude:

Cat Small (03:10): "I think the best features are the ones that solve multiple problems at once, that are simple abstractions that can grow into ones that solve future problems."

He contrasts local solutions with primitive abstractions:

Cat Small (04:05): "You could just have a collapse button that takes long documents and hides them in the chat. That would be like a local solution to a problem. But it is not a sort of compounding abstract concept that you can build off of a primitive in the product."

This distinction highlights the importance of designing foundational elements that can be extended, rather than ad-hoc fixes.

Collaboration and Cross-Team Synergy

Dennis shares his experience at Asana, illustrating the collaborative aspect of systems thinking:

Dennis (04:24): "I was basically combining these two archetypes into this project because it turned out that because we had all these overlaps with other teams, I had to go talk to a bunch of people and figure out how their product areas worked."

Effective systems thinking often necessitates cross-functional collaboration to ensure that the system accommodates various perspectives and requirements.

Maintaining Simplicity in Complex Systems

Ridd recounts his experience at Maven, emphasizing the balance between expanding features and preserving simplicity:

Ridd (05:14): "I could have designed that set of screens in isolation, but in the back of my head, I knew that we would probably want to surface some of these actions in future onboarding checklists..."

By envisioning how components can be reused and interoperate across different contexts, designers maintain a streamlined and intuitive user experience despite the system's complexity.

Strategic Impact of Systems Thinking

Cat Small highlights the strategic role of systems thinking in shaping product direction:

Cat Small (05:53): "I think it's designer jobs to say, like, hey, there's a future here... finding the solution that becomes one of the Lego pieces... is how strategy is shaped."

Designers, through systems thinking, contribute not just to immediate solutions but also to the long-term vision and adaptability of the product.

Real-World Impact: GitHub Sponsors Example

Kathy Zhang shares a success story that exemplifies the power of systems thinking:

Kathy Zhang (09:09): "The vehicle for it ended up being a YAML file that you initiate in your GitHub repo. And it was very clear that this was like a building block for something bigger."

This example illustrates how foundational design decisions can pave the way for scalable and versatile features, reinforcing the essence of systems thinking.

Conclusion: Embracing Systems Thinking for Design Excellence

Ridd wraps up the episode by reinforcing the importance of systems thinking in creating lasting and impactful designs. By focusing on foundational elements, fostering collaboration, and anticipating future needs, designers can build products that are not only beautiful and functional but also resilient and adaptable.

Ridd (09:36): "Building block for something bigger. I think that's a pretty good model for systems thinking and hopefully this episode made the whole concept a bit more practical."

Key Takeaways

• Systems Thinking Defined: Understanding the interconnectedness of design elements to create cohesive and scalable products.
• Avoiding Fragmentation: Steering clear of isolated solutions that can complicate the system.
• Foundational Abstractions: Designing primitives that serve as building blocks for future functionalities.
• Collaborative Design: Engaging with cross-functional teams to accommodate diverse needs within the system.
• Strategic Vision: Using systems thinking to shape long-term product strategy and adaptability.
• Real-World Applications: Success stories like Notion and GitHub Sponsors demonstrate the effectiveness of systems thinking.

By embracing systems thinking, designers can elevate their craft, ensuring that their creations are not only aesthetically pleasing but also functionally robust and adaptable to evolving user needs and market trends.