Transcript
A (0:00)
As software becomes easier to create, what does it take to truly differentiate with design?
B (0:05)
If you're smiling when you use this app, Even after the 45 days, you know you created something really special with users. It's all the little things. For example, on Ammo, on Bump, when you would browse through your friends, you don't have to build everything to be functional. It can be great to use it.
A (0:24)
How do you form a culture of creativity and consistently think outside the box as a designer?
B (0:31)
It doesn't have to have confidence, it doesn't have to be to have blue colors or saturated colors everywhere. But if you always think about, hey, what happens when I tap this button? What's the reaction? What's the feedback? It's perhaps it's just a tiny animation, perhaps it's a haptic feedback that is really carefully done on your phone, perhaps it's something else happening on the screen. But it's this type of interactions and delight that will create a unique experience.
A (0:58)
Welcome to Dive Club. My name is Rid, and this is where designers never stop learning. Today's episode is with Julian Martin, who is the head of design at Zenly, which sold to Snapchat, where again, he became the head of design. Now, eventually, Snap shut down Zenly, which led much of the core team to leave and create a new product called Ammo. Now, this is some of the most impressive consumer design that I've ever seen. But before we get into what makes Ammo so special, this episode actually starts 20 years ago in a Belgian restaurant in New York City.
B (1:33)
When I tell the story, especially recently during, you know, at Zen Lion Amo, people just don't believe me. So we kind of made fun of this as almost like internal joke that people were discussing whether or not I was actually lying about this back then. And it's a long time ago. It was 2006. I'm from a city in eastern France which is called Strasbourg. It's a beautiful city. It's packed with history, it's packed with beautiful architecture. There's a lot of culture there, like both German and French. There was nothing, no job, especially not in the design space. I had a very small, kind of shitty experience in the graphic design. Not even web so much. So a friend of mine had this restaurant in New York, and he kind of invited me over just for three months as an extended holiday. And I was young, I was a little bit foolish, and I was actually 22, 24. Sorry. And I went there and I kind of help him. I helped him in his restaurants. So I Actually became a manager of one of another restaurants. And what happened is I decided to stay. I decided to stay as a tourist in the U.S. i think I can talk about it now because it's. I'm not really shameful about it, but it's definitely something that resonates today in today's. In world politics, in US politics. But I went, I overstayed my visa, I didn't want to go back to France actually. What's funny is that I was illegal, but I paid my taxes. And in this restaurant I was after the shifts. There was always one customer visiting me in the afternoon quietly in the corner, drawing stuff on his, on his notebook, on his modestine book. He came every afternoon at same hour for the same amount of time ordering the same thing, a waffle and a coffee and like a double espresso. And you can tell like people usually, Donald, are just single espressos, ristrettos or double espresso. It's really kind of a French or European something. It's very. Just simple, strong coffee and that's it. So I figured this guy was not from here, as it turns out. He was from Barcelona in Spain and he was co founding a new company in the same street where the restaurant was. And the company was called Behance. He's Matthias Correa, one of Behance co founder and you know, he's very nice to me and he's inviting me over to the, to visit the office space. And after my shift I visit them. I bring some pastries and stuff to say thank you. And I come over and the office is just an apartment, it's the apartment of Scott Belsky. And it's really funny because you can tell by the look, by the smell, by everything that there's something going on in there. It's beautiful space, beautiful apartments, very New Yorker apartments. And there are many huge paper sheets plastered on the walls, on the windows even. So it's kind of blocking the lights a little bit, many screens. And there are four people there, Scott, Matthias and two engineers, Dave and Henry. And they give me a quick tour and say, hey, this is what we do, this is what we built. If you want, you can come every day if you want, after your shifts and you can help us. You can ask questions, you can just be an observer if you want. And I'm like, I would love that. Thank you for inviting me over. I don't know if I can help. I would love to. And without thinking about it, I do this kind of weird thing which is I Want the full package. I want to be here 24 7. And they did not expect that either. And they. They tell me that they cannot afford me. They don't have any money for now. They tell me, hey, we cannot pay you, but if you want to come every day, we won't stop you. We can pay you lunch, but that's it. So I say, okay, let's do that. I remember something which was really scary and funny at the same time is, you know, it's kind of Wednesday night, something like this, and it's 11pm I was smoking back there. So Scott's apartment was on the sixth floor. And every time I had to come down by the elevator and go out in the streets, smoke cigarettes and go up. And I can tell this was bothering to them because I didn't have a key, there was no code or whatever. So every time I had to ring and they had to pull me over there. And so they were like, hey, just smoke by the window, smoke by the window. Just stop, you know, going downstairs. So I'm like, on the sixth floor smoking cigarettes, like this young French guy, you know, and it's 10:00pm I'm like, okay, guys, I'm done. I'm tired. I'm going home. And Matthias is like, what are you doing? Like, it's 10pm there's still much work to do. Okay, okay, what should I do? Like, and I remember coming back home at 1am or 2am, super tired, going back to the office at 9am the day after the Real Hustle. And I was working seven days a week for almost a year and a half doing just that real quick message.