Dive Club 🤿 — "Julien Martin: Why Amo's Design Hits Different"
Episode Date: February 18, 2026
Host: Ridd
Guest: Julien Martin (ex-Zenly, Amo)
Overview
In this episode of Dive Club, host Ridd interviews Julien Martin—former Head of Design at Zenly (acquired by Snap) and now co-founder at Amo. The discussion unravels Julien's incredible journey from humble beginnings in Strasbourg and a chance encounter at a New York restaurant, to the creation of two of the most influential consumer design companies of the last decade. The episode dives deep into the evolution of design philosophies at Zenly and Amo, the DNA of delightfully differentiated design, and how design teams and hiring look and feel different in today’s AI-powered, fast-moving product world.
Key Topics & Insights
1. Julien’s Origin Story: Accidental Entry into Elite Design ([01:33]-[10:18])
- Serendipity in NYC: Julien moves from Strasbourg to NYC, taking an extended “holiday” working in a restaurant. There he meets Behance cofounder Matthias Correa, leading to an unexpected, immersive mentorship.
- Hustle at Behance: Works tirelessly, unpaid, for a year and a half—soaking up startup and design culture, learning basics through trial and error, and developing a respect for detail and iteration:
- “I remember coming back home at 1am or 2am, super tired, going back to the office at 9am the day after. The real hustle.” — Julien [05:33]
- Mentorship and Craftsmanship: Matthias’s relentless focus on “emotion, intuition, craft and preciseness” set the DNA for Julien’s later design success.
2. Shaping a Sense of Design DNA ([10:18]-[13:54])
- From Messy to Precise: The shift from scattered creativity to embracing alignment, iteration, and Bauhaus-inspired structure.
- Iterative Discipline: “I didn’t understand why I had to iterate 200 times the same web banner… He was crazy about it: it has to be perfectly aligned. If this is not aligned, everything is going to look bad.” — Julien [11:05]
- Craft as First Principle: Precision and feeling become the north star, even above process.
3. Zenly: Building Worlds, Not Just Apps ([13:54]-[17:01])
- What Was Zenly? Social mapping to see friends nearby; design-forward, playful, world-building approach.
- Deliberately Over-Designed: “It felt like a sandbox for us to have fun instead of just thinking about accessibility… It felt like a game and it was really entertaining.” — Julien [14:48]
- Global Resonance: Despite no longer existing, the Zenly alumni "DNA” permeates other hit products globally.
4. Amo: A New Chapter, Blank Slate for Creative Direction ([19:05]-[21:51])
- Reacting to Zenly’s Shutdown: Amo started as the same core team sought to create a suite of consumer products, learning from Zenly’s “Christmas tree” feature overload.
- A Series of Mini-Apps: Instead of one monolith, Amo explored multiple apps—each distinct, yet sharing a cohesive “universe”.
5. The Amo Visual Language: Crafting a Unique Universe ([21:51]-[27:05])
- Designing the Atom: The fundamental creative leap was making user avatars tiny, expressive, animated—a “collage-magnet-on-the-fridge” motif.
- “It’s not an emoji, not an avatar, but the real you, animated, very expressive... Almost like magnets on the fridge—messy, but meaningfully messy.” — Julien [24:48]
- Iterative Breakthroughs: The initial “luxury product” vibe felt cold. The team pivoted to what felt organic and “delightful,” with a collage-like, tactile brand language.
6. Principles of Delight, Gamification, and Creative Process ([27:23]-[32:08])
- Beyond Confetti: True delight is not tacked on but embedded in systemic feedback—haptics, micro-interactions, animations, and playful browsing paradigms:
- “It’s all the little things… For example, on Bump, when you browse through friends—faces animate as they enter the center… it creates anticipation, it creates smiles.” — Julien [28:44]
- Originality as Differentiation: Not just aggregating polish, but inventing left-field, design-driven ideas is key.
7. Cultivating Creativity: Teamwork, Intuition, and Rituals ([32:08]-[41:53])
- Invention vs. Existing Patterns: Borrowing (or breaking) paradigms—like “pull to refresh”—builds addictive user habits.
- Balance of Delight & Usability: Sometimes spiraling too deep into delight can confuse users—the need for balance and willingness to roll back.
- Collaboration Culture: Product obsession permeated every discipline, fostering spontaneous, side-by-side, designer-engineer collaboration:
- “Many great ideas came from backend engineers… we made sure this collaborative culture was open to everyone.” — Julien [39:39]
- “You can do it remotely, but it’s not the same as sitting side by side, jamming together on the details.” — Julien [41:26]
8. Hiring for the New Design Era ([41:53]-[46:54])
- Ambition & Side Projects > Resumes: Amo prized curiosity, hackathon passion projects, and entrepreneurial tinkering over famous company logos.
- “We don’t care about your previous experience at Meta or Apple—talk to us about this very specific side project.” — Julien [43:31]
- Survival Skillset for Modern Teams: Teams are getting smaller, “360” designers have to be hands-on, cross-functional, and deeply familiar with new tools and AI.
9. Macro Trends: The Fragmented, High-Impact Design Landscape ([47:26]-[55:35])
- Tiny, Nimble Teams: Startups are laser-focused and ultra-lean. Designers must be product strategists and doers—sometimes the lone designer for years.
- “You have to be very fluent in AI, spend more time on tools than Figma, and sometimes even commit your own code.” — Julien [48:56]
- Big Company “Baggage”: Startups often avoid “fortune company” resumes, favoring candidates who can prove hunger and versatility through side projects or hands-on freelance/agency work.
- “Now if you’re out of [big companies] and looking for startup jobs—it’s hard. 90% of the profiles needed are side-project builders.” — Julien [51:21]
- Blurring Roles & Job Titles: Teams want “a little bit of everything”—product, design, code, motion. Sometimes teams don’t even have language for what they’re hiring.
10. Products that Inspire: Modern Benchmarks ([56:09]-[56:56])
- Retro App, Duolingo: Cited for polish, connected experiences, consistent delight in visuals, motion, and haptics.
- “Duolingo: everything is so tightly connected—the brand, the motion, the haptics—so good… perfect experience.” — Julien [56:37]
Notable Quotes & Moments
Julien on Craft & Iteration:
“Matthias’s focus was really on emotion, intuition, and craft and preciseness that I wasn’t used to. It has to be perfectly aligned. If this is not aligned, everything is going to look bad.” ([11:05])
On Original Delight:
“If you’re smiling when you use this app, even after the 45 days, you know you created something really special with users.” ([28:44])
On Hiring for Modern Teams:
“We don’t care about your previous experience at Meta, you were at Apple—we don’t care. Talk to us about this very specific side project.” ([43:31])
On Team Culture at Amo:
“Many great ideas came from backend engineers… we made sure this collaborative culture was open to everyone.” ([39:39])
On What’s Needed Now:
“You have to be very fluent in AI… sometimes, even commit your own code. You will be the only designer for months or years.” ([48:56])
Timestamps of Key Segments
- [01:33] Julien’s accidental entry into the Behance crew in NYC, mentorship by Matthias Correa, hustle culture
- [10:42] Discipline and iteration as foundations of visual design
- [14:48] Zenly’s DNA: Game-like design, world-building, playful interactions
- [19:05] Birth of Amo as a suite of apps; learning from the overload and creative constraints of Zenly
- [22:23] Crafting the Amo visual language: collage/animated avatars, “messy” but intentional branding
- [28:09] Principles underpinning “delight” and design-driven product differentiation
- [39:32] Amo’s culture of inter-team, cross-discipline collaboration
- [42:08] Hiring: prioritizing ambition, curiosity, and side projects above pedigree
- [47:26] Macro market trends: smaller teams, the rise of 360 designers, demand for velocity & breadth
- [54:07] Shifting team structures; "no title" product/design/engineering roles
- [56:09] Modern apps Julien admires for design—Retro, Duolingo
Summary
Julien Martin’s journey shows that iconic user experiences are built on obsessive craft, iterative attention to detail, and a culture that prizes original playful ideas over safe, functional sameness. At Zenly and Amo, visual identity isn’t an afterthought—it’s the seed from which every interaction, every pixel, and every team habit grows. With design teams shrinking and responsibilities blurring, today’s product designer is expected to be a world-builder, technologist, and experimenter all at once. For those building or joining the next generation of software teams, side projects, curiosity, and the willingness to jam with engineers—more than any credential—are the keys to standing out.