← Do This, NOT That: Marketing Tips with Jay Schwedelson![Ep. 253-MY PATH! CRO of Vox Media: 400M Followers & 36M Monthly Podcast Downloads🫨 Geoff Schiller: Chief Revenue Officer [NEW SERIES: My Path: How they got here and YOU CAN TOO!] — Do This, NOT That: Marketing Tips with Jay Schwedelson cover](https://storage.buzzsprout.com/lut7800x7vdo0hshvctrizy6rpxv?.jpg)
Do This, NOT That: Marketing Tips with Jay Schwedelson
Ep. 253-MY PATH! CRO of Vox Media: 400M Followers & 36M Monthly Podcast Downloads🫨 Geoff Schiller: Chief Revenue Officer [NEW SERIES: My Path: How they got here and YOU CAN TOO!]
00:22:15
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- [00:00]
Jeff Shiller
Foreign.
- [00:09]
Jay Schwedelson
Welcome to do this, not that, the podcast for marketers. You'll walk away from each episode with actionable tips you can test immediately. You'll hear from the best minds in marketing who will share tactics, quick wins and pitfalls to avoid. Also, dig into life, pop culture, and the chaos that is our everyday. I'm Jay Schwedelson. Let's do this, not that.
- [00:40]
Host
We are back for do this, not that, presented by meworld. And today we're launching a new series. It is called My Path. It's all about how people that are successful in sales and marketing, how do they get to where they are? Because nobody really starts out and ends up in the place they think they're going to wind up and do and all this stuff. And there is nobody better to start this series with than the guest that we have today. So we got Jeff Shiller. Who's Jeff Shiller? Well, maybe, you know, he's the Chief Revenue Officer at Vox Media. Now, you got to be living under a rock if you don't know Vox. I mean, they have 132 million people that they reach on their platform. They have 400 million social media flowers. Like they have New York Magazine and the Verge and the Cut. And their podcast Network gets over 36 million monthly downloads, which is just crazy. And Jeff is the Chief Revenue officer. It's all his fault. So, Jeff, welcome to the podcast.
- [01:36]
Jeff Shiller
Jay. So happy to be here. So happy to see you. Thank you for giving all the flowers to Vox Media, but I want to give you some. You are a legend in the industry and a legend to me, so I am excited to be.
- [01:50]
Host
I appreciate that. You just need to get out more. That's all I know from that. So, yes, I've known Jeff for, I don't even wanna say how many years, but a really long time. Right? And so back when neither one of us knew what the hell we were gonna do for a living. And so today we're talking about your path. You got this really cool job now, hanging out with all these cool people doing all this cool stuff. But you didn't just wake up when you were at the University of Florida and say, that's gonna be my plan. Vox Media, I'm gonna crush it. There's. So I want to know, how did this. Well, first of all, what do you do for a living? Am I right? And then how did it start?
- [02:27]
Jeff Shiller
So I look after the advertising business for Vox Media. So that's everything from standard tactical display, video, audio media to branded content, branded written, short form, Long form documentaries and events, basically any form of advertising revenue across the entire portfolio of our.com brands as well as our podcast network. So the strategy, the pricing, the packaging, you know, all of those things fall under the remit of CRO at Vox Media.
- [03:04]
Host
It's all your fault.
- [03:06]
Jeff Shiller
All my fault. One throat to choke.
- [03:09]
Host
So.
- [03:10]
Jeff Shiller
So yeah, so that's what I do. As far as to your point, like, how did I get here? I think what's really interesting to your point is like one unique thing about advertising is most people didn't say they want to be in advertising, but the skills that you pick up along the way sometimes cast the die for you to be perfect in advertising. So for me it was like being very passionate about people and relationships and like I was a political science major in college and so, you know, a lot of understanding, even back to college how things move in the world applies to our business because when it comes down to it, it's all about relationships. But I definitely saw that I had a knack for solving problems which, you know, as fraternity brothers there was always lots of problems to solve. As fellow chancellors, there were always lots of problems to solve. And like, so the sum total before I started my career of these personal experiences around either leading or relationships or understanding dynamics of how the world works all lend themselves to the advertising business, which is built on relationships. It's built on understanding value and conveying value and negotiating and all of the things that you would do if you were, you know, in other industries. So I, it was definitely nonlinear. You know, I did not wake up and say, yes, advertising and I'm going to go on this path. I had an amazing time in Florida, graduated. I really thought I was going to be in the entertainment business and did that for a hot minute. And maybe I could have gone in that direction if I didn't wind up having to sleep on somebody's futon in LA with no car for 3 months during pilot season. Maybe it wouldn't have turned me off, but I always loved entertainment and when we graduated, this was back when you would go on hot jobs and monster.com there was a job at the E Channel for E. Online and I've always been an early adopter. So again, in like the realm of things that make you right for advertising, if you like innovation, you're an early adopter. Big check mark. So always been an early adopter. This was, hey, come join E Online. Be at the forefront of the digital evolution and help us manifest the E Channel online. Didn't know anything about Media didn't know a cpm, didn't know an impression, nothing. And so I took that job and kind of learned as I went how to have a CPM calculator at my desk for, like, the first year, you know, literally knew nothing. And I just found that I loved the industry. I loved creative. I was so naive when I was, like, a little kid. I was like, TV networks are so cool. They're free. And I never really connected the dots that commercials are the reason for TV networks existing. It's not the other way around. And so. But I always loved great commercials and great creative, and I loved campaigns that were out in the wild that made a difference. Taglines, you know, I love movie taglines, but obviously brand taglines as well. And so as I spent time at the channel understanding just like the baseline of the advertising business, I knew at that point, like, that is why it made sense for me. This is where I want to be. And I sort of charted a course for getting from here to there, which would be from sales assistant at e. Online 24¾ years ago to chief revenue officer of Vox Media. So that is the initial, like, how did I get in? And, you know, the why behind it.
- [07:13]
Host
So, okay, you're at E. Online. You got your CPM calculator. You have no idea what's going on. Okay. And now they're like, you're going to do sales. You have to generate sales. I mean, now you're not doing marketing and advertising. Yeah, making commercials seems like fun, but you have to sell stuff. Like, were you good at sales? Are you just some sort of, like, you know, Glengarry Glenn Ross? You're just crushing at sales, or did you have to figure that out?
- [07:38]
Jeff Shiller
I definitely had to figure it out. I don't think most of us are, like, generally likable. Maybe not you, but. But. But most of us. No, you're the most, literally. I'm gonna give another plug. Jay is literally the best human. I worshiped him in college, thought he was the coolest guy ever. And most. But most of us are likable. And so that's like the. The underpinning of why anyone in sales is successful. Are you likable? Secondarily, like, in our everyday civilian lives, we tell stories. Some of us are horrible storytellers. I've always been, like, a good one. I could carry a conversation with, you know, a brick wall. And so a lot of those personal attributes and. And personality traits just lent themselves to me being able to form relationships. And then I've always Been a curious person. So lots of questions. There are people that just talk. I usually do more listening than. Than talking, at least at first. And so I found it really easy to sell because I looked at it as a human interaction, not as a transaction. And there was a component of. I just wanted to work harder than everybody else and, you know, have a chip on my shoulder and advance faster and do all the things. But I wouldn't have been successful if I read it from a manual. You know, it's like that scene in the Karate Kid where Ralph Macchio is trying to do karate from a book, you know, versus Mr. Miyagi, like teaching him. And it never works. You have to be authentic. So I think that is a big part of why sellers are either successful or unsuccessful.
- [09:17]
Host
So if I'm out there right now and I'm in a sales job, right, A selling media of some kind, and I'm like, I hate this. I suck at this. I don't even like, you know, doing whatever. Is it like an instant, relatively instant thing that, you know, okay, this isn't my gig, I got to pivot. Or is selling media something that you can really grow to love over time? Like, how quickly would you tell somebody to pivot out of sales in media if they don't like it? I mean, did you know immediately?
- [09:48]
Jeff Shiller
I did know immediately because I think my sector, generally speaking, of publishing, or whatever you want to call it, non platform media, is built on things that I love personally. So I would say first and foremost, you'll know you, you'll love it immediately. Is if it's merging what you like to read, watch, listen to with what you're selling. So if that's divergent, then you're not. It's going to take a little bit longer. But for me, it was immediate because I was like, oh, I love movies, I love tv, I love music. Like, great. I'm doing these things. That's always been a thread at all of the places that I've worked at. There's always been something that I hung onto. And I would say for those people out there that are questioning is this right for me, if they're not doing something that they're interested in and it seems like a slog, then that is a one, you know, a red flag or like a sort of moment of pause that they should take and say, you know what? Like, yeah, I'm not passionate about what I'm doing and I'm not seeing results. That said, if it's. They're passionate about it and they're not seeing results, then I would give it more time and I would really be introspective and say, what am I missing? Am I doing being too clinical? Am I not asking enough questions? Like, I do think a lot of success is driven by treating your job, at least through sales. As an investigative reporter, I should go into a conversation with you knowing who, what, when, where, why, and how. If I go in cold, I'm not making good use of your time. And so some of the skills can be taught. The passion really can't be taught. So if the passion is there, but the skills aren't and they're not seeing results, I think give it some time, make sure that those things that I mentioned are being sort of deployed properly, and usually you'll see results. Some people are resistant and they don't want to take feedback and they don't see the results, and then they wind up sort of spinning out of the job anyway. But for anyone that is in that mode of, like, I love what I do, but I'm not that good at it, it's worth asking those questions, like, how am I approaching it and what's falling off and how do I fix it?
- [12:04]
Host
So along the lines of trying to kind of better yourself and up level your skills and stuff, you hire a lot of people, right? I mean, I can only imagine the amount of people you've interviewed and considered and whatever for all sorts of different roles, especially sales roles. What is like the secret sauce? Somebody sits down with Jeff and they do this, it's going to help. Or they do this and that's it, they're gone. Like, what do you. What are you looking for when you're interviewing somebody?
- [12:31]
Jeff Shiller
When I'm interviewing it, for me, it's the behaviors, the what they talk about. It's not the who. It's like, it's what they talk about and how they talk about the job. It's. It's their strategy. I want to know, are they strategic? Are they agre. Strategically aggressive? Not aggressive. Do they have a plan? Are they methodical? It's all of these buzzwords that if they mention those things and they say, this is how I go to market. This is how I organize myself. Major checkboxes for. Yes. If they speak through the lens of jargon and talk about whatever nonsense our industry is, you know, obviously the best at creating jargon, and it's like a shallow, thin layer of. Of. Of profiling that you can get from that person, then that's when my spider sense goes off and I'm like, yeah, no, this person is saying the right things, but they actually don't know how to do them. For me, when I lead the teams that I lead, I always talk about this notion of actions are equal to results. And obviously that might be a little counterintuitive in sales because sales is inherently results driven, but I firmly believe you take all the right actions, the results will come. And so when I'm interviewing someone and I don't hear them use those words that I know will lead to the right actions, that is like non starter for sure.
- [13:53]
Host
Let me ask something, and this is kind of off script, but let's say you're considering somebody. Is somebody having a personal brand, like a good thing or a bad thing? Meaning, like, you, you go, I'm sure you look somebody up on LinkedIn before you hire them. Like, oh, we have 27 connections that are the same and they're important people and they share a lot on social media. Like what they're sharing on LinkedIn or whatever, big check mark. Or is it like, oh, they're a little bit too out there, they're sharing their opinion too much. We don't need that in our team. Like, where do, where's a personal brand fit in in terms of being a good fit for an organization?
- [14:27]
Jeff Shiller
Personal brands are great as long as they're balanced. You know, and then the sort of notion of the celebrity CMO or celebrity CEO, the ones that are the most effective are the ones that are actually doing the work, not spending nine out of 10, you know, or 90% of their time on panels. You don't need to hear yourself talk more than a couple of times a year to be effective as building your personal brand. And so I think it's just balance. If somebody comes in and it's like, they are really confident and they've said, hey, look, I built this business at this old company and you can see on LinkedIn, I promoted the hell out of it. Amazing. If that's all they do. And you, you again, your spider sense kind of, you know, rings and you're like, oh, yeah, this person's a really good talker. Like, we don't need industry evangelists. We need leaders, we need doers. And so I would definitely say personal brand is great, but if it errs on the side of not being a leader or a doer, then it's not worth the conversation.
- [15:38]
Host
So. All right, before we have to wrap up on this thing, I want to know something, because you, when I was looking through everything, like, how the hell is this dude Doing all. They got 500 websites and five zillion podcasts. And for. I don't even know what the hell's going on over there. I can't even keep up with everything you got going on. And I know you're a super invested dad, you got a bunch of kids over there. How the hell do you manage your time? I do get up at 2 in the morning. Are you like insane? Like, what's your deal?
- [16:04]
Jeff Shiller
That's a really good question. No, I get up at 6 in the morning, go to the gym and then I actually, I just started taking the ferry to work because I'm in New Jersey, which I know, I don't know why it took me this long, but it's the most amazing thing. I could chill. I'm not stressed when I get in, so I think stress management is a big part of it. But in terms of balance, it's like I don't go out during the week unless it's a really compelling reason, because otherwise I'll never see my family, my wife, my kids. And so in order for me to make the decision to go out with a client, like, there's a high bar. It's like a really important client or a really important relationship. I'm not going to do something just because I'm going to make sure it's a good use of my time in. And by doing that, I get to spend time with them. And then, you know, obviously they're getting older, they're running around on the weekends, they're not around. I can go out and have a social life on the weekends, but I try not to go out unless it's a really, you know, strong rationale as to why. And even then it's like once a week is max two. I would have to. My, my, like, my head would explode if I did that. Um, but it is, it is time management. Then I can do all the things. Plus I'm traveling all the time. You know, the last two weeks I was in LA for Vulture Fest and got to see our Vulture brand do this live amazing festival. And then I went directly to London, but stopped at home for 24 hours just so I could hang with the fam. So again, it's like that balance of not just being on the road two weeks straight. So it is, obviously it's hard, but, you know, like I said, it's, it's advertising, so it's all fun at the end of the day.
- [17:43]
Host
Yeah. I think as I get older, I'm trying to be more respectful of my Own time. It used to be like, oh, you want to go out?
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Jeff Shiller
Cool.
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Host
Now it's like, you want to go out. That sucks.
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Jeff Shiller
Yeah, exactly. I'm the exact same way. It's like, it's just a high bar now.
- [17:57]
Host
Yeah, 100%. So in your business, you. You have met every famous person on the planet. Is there anybody, like, on the bucket list for you that's like, listen, I haven't really hung out with this person because, I mean, your business is that you just hang out with cool people. There's got to be somebody that you're like, I'm going to meet this person. It's going to be great.
- [18:15]
Jeff Shiller
There are so many people, and the number one on my list. I think I have to come down. Wilhang, he's in Florida. I need to see Sylvester Stallone. I would love to go to dinner with him.
- [18:27]
Host
That's amazing. That's like, the first name you want to meet. Rocky.
- [18:31]
Jeff Shiller
Yeah, I mean, it's the greatest. I use Rocky metaphors so many times. Like, you know, over the course of the years, I think, like, his story is a Rocky story. I just think he's like a. It's a cool guy to just pick his brain and be like, so you were broke and they asked you to sell the script and you said no, and they asked you to sell the script again and you said no. And then you starred in this movie and it changed your life. And it's like, I just. It. For me, there's always layers. It's not just like, yeah, I. It was amazing. I got to meet Mike Myers, like, a couple of weeks ago, took a picture, posted it. He was. He was amazing. But, like, no, no shade on. On. On Mike Myers, of course, but, like, there are a few people in that vein of like, you just really want to pick their brain and have a dinner and, like, ask them questions, you know?
- [19:17]
Host
So anyways, Rocky one through, I guess, five. Which one are we watching?
- [19:23]
Jeff Shiller
Well, five is not even real. I. I love three. I mean, who doesn't love. Yeah, exactly. Clubber Lang. I mean, it's just like, to me, that's the Rocky one is the best, but, like, Rocky 3 is close.
- [19:41]
Host
I'm going to get you, like, a Mr. T costume or something. You know, he needs a podcast. He probably has one. He probably has one in your network for all I know. That'd be amazing.
- [19:50]
Jeff Shiller
He's the next one. Don't tell anybody.
- [19:52]
Host
Big announcement. All right, Jeff, you're awesome. Listen, everybody's got to go follow jeff on LinkedIn. The guy just shares the best stuff. Jeff, what else should people get involved with in your world? Just. We'll put in the show notes, but anything you want to tell everybody?
- [20:06]
Jeff Shiller
Look, I would say one of the key differences about what we're doing is really centering every sort of thing that we do around our talent and our ip. In a world, as you know better than anyone, of commoditized content, every word matters. And so the words need to come from something of high value. And so I think in this world of infinite choice, we're trying to do things that matter, whether it's New York Magazine or the Verge or Eater, and then we're trying to build franchises that break through. So we're doing something in a couple of weeks in Williamsburg called Eater under wraps, which is going to be a live holiday market. We'll be at CES Vergecast Live. So just check out the stuff that we're doing. Obviously, support it. Quality journalism matters and brands matter. And then on the pod side, you have the number one marketing podcast. We have some number ones. You know, take a listen. Megan Rapinoe and Sue Bird are amazing. Their podcast to touch more, we just announced the addition of Lonzo Balls. What an experience. Cam Hayward, who's the reigning NFL man of the Year. So lots of different pods. And then, of course, Kara Swisher. Scott Galloway in the world of technology and media. So just, you know, support Vox Media and we appreciate it.
- [21:28]
Host
Amazing. Love Galloway. He's the best. All right, Jeff, you are best. Can't wait to hang. Thanks for doing this and we'll see you soon.
- [21:34]
Jeff Shiller
Absolutely. Happy holidays.
- [21:36]
Host
You did it.
- [21:37]
Jay Schwedelson
You made it to the end. Nice. But the party's not over.
- [21:41]
Host
Subscribe to make sure you get the.
- [21:43]
Jay Schwedelson
Latest episode each week for more actionable tips and a little chaos from today's top marketers. And hook us up with a five star review if this wasn't the worst podcast of all time. Lastly, if you want access to the best virtual marketing events that are also 100 free, visit guruevents.com so you can hear from the world's top marketers like Damon John, Martha Stewart, and me. Guruevents.
- [22:09]
Host
Com.
- [22:10]
Jay Schwedelson
Check it out.