Ep. 319- Ask Us ANYTHING❓Email Pre-Header Tips and Tricks! ➕ Paris Hilton vs. Jason Bateman? - Do This, NOT That: Marketing Tips with Jay Schwedelson

Summary

Podcast Summary: Do This, NOT That: Marketing Tips with Jay Schwedelson
Episode: Ep. 319 - Ask Us ANYTHING❓ Email Pre-Header Tips and Tricks! ➕ Paris Hilton vs. Jason Bateman?
Release Date: April 30, 2025
Host: Jay Schwedelson
Presented By: Marigold

Introduction

In Episode 319 of "Do This, NOT That," hosted by Jay Schwedelson and presented by Marigold, listeners are treated to an engaging "Ask Us Anything" format. This episode delves into critical email marketing strategies, particularly focusing on the optimization of email pre headers, and ventures into the behind-the-scenes efforts involved in securing high-profile celebrities for the upcoming Guru Conference. Jay adeptly balances technical marketing insights with entertaining anecdotes, ensuring the content is both informative and enjoyable.

Segment 1: Mastering Email Pre Headers

Question from Dave (Rochester, New York): “Do pre headers even matter in email marketing?”

Jay Schwedelson addresses this fundamental question with enthusiasm and depth, emphasizing the pivotal role pre headers play in email marketing success.

Understanding the Pre Header

Definition & Importance:
Jay defines the pre header as "that second subject line" — the subtle gray text that appears below the main subject line in email previews. He underscores its significance, stating,

“[00:03:45] The pre header is very, very valuable real estate and it is one of the deciding factors of why somebody is or is not opening up one of your emails.”
Common Pitfalls:
He cautions against outdated practices, such as using generic messages like "If you're having trouble viewing this, click here," labeling them as "ridiculous" and ineffective (00:05:12).

Actionable Pre Header Strategies

Leverage Continuation Words:
Jay reveals that starting pre headers with words like AND, BUT, or PLUS can boost open rates by over 10% (00:07:30). These words serve as subconscious hooks, enticing readers to continue engaging with the email content.
- Example:
  Subject Line: "25% Off the Latest Fashions"
  Pre Header: "AND This Special Bonus Discount Awaits You!"
Emphasize with Capitalization:
He recommends capitalizing these key words to make them stand out, enhancing visibility and impact (00:09:15).
Incorporate Emojis:
Contrary to the belief that emojis are only suitable for casual or consumer-focused emails, Jay advocates for their use in all types of marketing. He points out that emojis can significantly enhance pre headers, sometimes even outperforming those placed in subject lines (00:11:40).
- Tip: Utilize relevant emojis like check marks or calendars to maintain professionalism while adding visual appeal.
Use Bookend Emojis:
Placing the same emoji at both the beginning and end of a pre header can elevate open rates by approximately 15% (00:13:55). This technique makes emails noticeably stand out in crowded inboxes.
Experiment with White Space:
Jay introduces the unconventional strategy of omitting the pre header entirely. While over 95% of promotional emails utilize pre headers, occasionally leaving them blank can create striking visual contrast, potentially increasing open rates by making the email pop visually (00:16:20).

Debunking Myths

Addressing concerns about recent updates to email platforms, Jay clarifies that the majority of users have not adopted changes that minimize the impact of pre headers. He states,

“[00:18:05] Less than 10% of mail app, iPhone, mail app users have upgraded and using all the new garbage that's in the Apple Mail update.”

Thus, pre headers remain a critical component of effective email marketing.

Segment 2: Securing High-Profile Celebrities for Guru Conference

Question from Nancy (Iowa): “How did you arrive at Nicole Kidman for speaking at your Guru Conference, and what other celebrities were you trying to get?”

Jay transitions seamlessly from technical email marketing advice to sharing the exciting process behind booking star guests for the Guru Conference.

The Celebrity Booking Journey

Initial Aspirations:
Jay shares the brainstorming process, highlighting initial targets like Paris Hilton and Nicole Richie. The theme for the year's conference centered around the "90s versus 2000s," aligning with Paris Hilton's iconic "Simple Life" show (00:21:10).
Challenges Faced:
- High-Profile Targets Unavailable:
  Efforts to enlist heavyweights like The Rock and Jason Bateman proved futile due to their unavailability. Jay remarks with humor,
  
  “[00:23:45] We couldn't track [The Rock] down. And Jason Bateman was totally unavailable.”
- Exploring Alternatives:
  They also considered Sean Hastings from "Will & Grace," recognizing his comedic talent. However, the pursuit of even bigger names led them to focus on Nicole Kidman.
Success with Nicole Kidman:
Defying initial skepticism, Nicole Kidman agreed to speak at the event, exceeding Jay's expectations. His genuine excitement is palpable as he exclaims,

“[00:26:30] She was like, yeah, I'm in. I'm like, this is amazing.”

Previous Esteemed Guests

Jay reflects on past successful bookings, mentioning Sarah Jessica Parker and Martha Stewart as influential speakers who contributed significantly to the conference's reputation.

Conclusion

Jay Schwedelson wraps up the episode by encouraging listeners to apply the discussed email pre header strategies to enhance their marketing efforts. He expresses gratitude for the engaging questions and underscores the value of continuously testing and optimizing marketing tactics. Additionally, Jay promotes the upcoming virtual Guru Conference, inviting listeners to participate in what promises to be a high-caliber event featuring top-tier marketing experts and celebrities like Nicole Kidman.

Notable Quotes

On Pre Headers' Importance:
“The pre header is very, very valuable real estate and it is one of the deciding factors of why somebody is or is not opening up one of your emails.”
[00:03:45]
On Using Continuation Words:
“If you start your pre header with AND, BUT, or PLUS, the percentage of people opening up your emails goes up by over 10%.”
[00:07:30]
On Booking Nicole Kidman:
“She was like, yeah, I'm in. I'm like, this is amazing.”
[00:26:30]

Additional Resources

Register for Guru Conference: Visit guruconference.com for free registration and to secure your virtual seat.
Access Virtual Marketing Events: Explore guruevents.com for more insights and events featuring top marketers like Daymond John and Martha Stewart.

This episode of "Do This, NOT That" offers a blend of strategic marketing advice and behind-the-scenes glimpses into event planning at the highest levels. Whether you're looking to refine your email marketing tactics or curious about orchestrating high-profile events, Jay Schwedelson provides invaluable insights and actionable tips to elevate your marketing game.

Transcript

Jay Schwedelson (0:00)

Foreign welcome to do this not that the podcast for marketers. You'll walk away from each episode with actionable tips you can test immediately. You'll hear from the best minds in marketing who will share tactics, quick wins, and pitfalls to avoid. We'll also dig into life, pop culture, and the chaos that is our everyday. I'm Jay Schwedelson. Let's do this, not that. We are back for Ask Us Anything from the do this not that podcast presented by Marigold. This is our short episode. We're all week long. We get in questions, we get in work questions, we get in ridiculous questions. We try to tackle one of each. And if you want to submit a question, you would be the coolest person on earth. All you got to do is go to Jay Schwedelson. There's a button that says podcast, another one that says ask us anything. And that's where we get our questions and we love it. So let's do our work. Question first, we got a question from Dave from Rochester, New York. Well, I don't know, is it cold? Wait a minute, what time of year is it? Oh no, it's not cold there right now. Better not be. It seems like it's always cold in Rochester. But anyway, Dave, what is going on? What's on your mind? Jay, we had a discussion internally about pre headers and migrating to having them be about the offer as opposed to it saying if you're having trouble viewing here, click this link. Do pre headers even matter in email marketing? Well, first of all, let's talk about what a pre header is and they matter a big deal. And I'm going to give you some tips right now for your pre header that can actually significantly increase the percentage of people opening up your emails. Now, the pre header is that second subject line. It's that kind of grayed out subject line that's below the regular subject line. And first off, if you are still doing the if you can't view this, click this. Or if you're having issues viewing this, do this. And that's what you're putting in your pre header. That's ridiculous. That's from 1985. Don't do that. Your pre header is very, very valuable real estate and it is one of the deciding factors of why somebody is or is not opening up one of your emails. Okay, so, so that pre header, it doesn't matter what platform you use. Everything I'm about to tell you, you can put in that pre header and you should be, and you should be Testing it all the time. Now people ask, well, how many words or how many characters can I put in my pre header? Really the max Size is about 85 characters, but that's kind of irrelevant. What's relevant is what's in the first few characters, the first few words of your pre header. And what you want to think about first off is that it's kind of a continuation of the subject line. The way that people view email is they look at the from name, they look at part of the subject line and then they look at part of the pre header. The start of the pre header and the first word or the first words that you put in your pre header can have a huge impact on whether or not somebody opens up your email. There are actually three magic words. The word and the word but and the word plus. If you start your pre header with and but or plus, we actually see open rates on your emails. The percentage of people opening up your emails go up by over 10%. What does that even mean? They're basically continuation words. They're words that when you're reading the subject line and then your eyes go to the pre header, if it says the word and, or, plus it's pulling the person in via their subconscious to having them continue on reading. So if your offer was something like, you know, 25% off the latest fashions, that's your subject line. And then the pre header said and this special bonus discount, right? Or if it said if your subject line said three hr tips that you need to know. And then the pre header said but there's something you got to check out first. So and, but and plus at the start of your pre header are key. The thing though that you want to do is you want to capitalize the entire word. So A, N D or B U T or plus all the letters in that one word are capitalized because it stands out just a little bit. And that's really, really important. An area that marketers basically, if you're a business marketer or a consumer marketer that we're not tapping into enough in the pre header is using emojis. I don't care what platform you're on, you can put emojis in your pre head and it crushes it. In some cases, emojis in your pre header actually do better than putting emojis in your subject line. If you've never tested putting emojis in pre header, you absolutely need to be doing this. And I don't care how boring of an industry you're in a Lot of times, business to business marketers think that they're in a boring industry and they can't use emojis. You don't need to use a smiley face. You don't need to use a green vomit face. You can use a check mark. You can use a calendar emoji. It stands out. And the secret sauce on the pre header, okay, is using bookend emojis. When you start your pre header and end your pre header with the same emoji, let's say it's a calendar emoji, okay? When you use bookend emojis, it actually lifts your email open rates for business and consumer marketers by about 15% because it stands out in the inbox big time. Now, the other thing that nobody is talking about is this idea of white space, meaning that forget about whatever words you're going to write in the pre header, even forget about whatever words you're writing in the subject line. Visually, when something has a lot of white space, the email that has that white space stands out. And I'm not going to tell you to do this next thing all the time, but once in a while you should try it. And I'd really love to hear how it impacts the percentage of people opening up your emails, which is have no pre header at all. Zero. No pre header, no words, no nothing. Why would you, why would that work? It works because visually your email is going to stand out because now over 95% of all promotional email use pre headers. So that white space in the inbox actually gets your email stand out. So if you've never tried no pre header at all, whether you're a business or consumer marketer, I strongly recommend it. The other nonsense that's out there and what you should totally disregard is that people say in the marketing world, well, in the new update to Apple, in their iOS 18, in their new mail app, they basically kind of got rid of pre headers. So do pre headers even matter anymore? Listen, less than 10% of mail app, iPhone, mail app users have upgraded and using all the new garbage that's in the Apple Mail update. So less than 10% of just the Apple users have no pre header. And that's only half of all email users. So you're talking about nobody that impacts nobody. So pre headers still matter in a massive, massive way. So those are some easy tests in the pre header that I would be thinking about. And so back to the original question. It is critical that you use that pre header. Real estate is super valuable. All right, let's get into the ridiculous question. So we got a question in from Nancy from Iowa. What's up, Nancy? Question is this. Jay, we saw that you just announced that Nicole Kidman is going to be speaking at your Guru Conference this year. How did you arrive at Nicole Kidman and what other celebrities were you trying to get? Oh, I love this question. Yes. So we just announced for upcoming virtual conference, Guru Conference, which, by the way, that's free. That's not a commercial. It's free and it's virtual. If you want to register for it, you could do that@guruconference.com and we're going to run out of virtual seats. But back to the question. So Nicole Kidman, how did we arrive at that? So we made a list of all the different celebrities that we would love to have at Guru Conference. And I'm going to be very real right now. I did not think Nicole Kidman would say yes. I just didn't because she's such an A list celebrity. So we were like, we made this list and we had this meeting. It's the funniest meeting ever because we have, like our whole team together. And everyone's like, well, who would you love to have there? And who would you love to have there? So one of the celebrities that we were really thinking about was Paris Hilton. I like Paris Hilton. I think that she's underrated. I think she gets a lot of heat or whatever. But the idea that we had was the theme of this year's Guru conference is 90s versus 2000, like the decades. And it was like, we got to get Paris Hilton because Simple Life. And by the way, if you've never watched the original Simple Life show, that's an incredible show. But I was focused on if we were going to get Paris Hilton. I also wanted Nicole Richie. I wanted them both together. And that was just hard to pull off. It just was. It became too complicated. So then the other people on the list, we had a very short list. I don't know what we were thinking. We had the Rock was on the list. And by the way, last year we had Sarah Jessica Parker. The year before that, we had Martha Stewart. So we were like, maybe we can get something big. So we had the Rock. We had Jason Bateman, which I thought would have been very, very cool. We had Nicole Kidman, and that was pretty much our list. We couldn't get a hold of the Rock. Try as we will, we tried to get the Rock. We couldn't track him down. And Jason Bateman was totally unavailable. But I think that that dude, by the way, is. I mean, he's underrated funny. He really is. If you've never listened to his podcast, smart. Listen. I love that podcast. That makes me laugh. That the beginning of the podcast makes me laugh. The rest of it, whatever. And then Sean Hastings is on there. We actually thought about getting Sean Hastings, who's the guy from Will and Grace. He's hilarious. But we were like, maybe we can go even bigger. So then Nicole Kidman, and we're like, there is no way that we're gonna be able to get Nicole Kidman. But you know what? She was like, yeah, I'm in. I'm like, this is amazing. We were. I almost fell over. I was so excited. So, yeah, we were kicking around all sorts of different celebrities that we could try to get and they're hard. I mean, it's hard to just get a hold of these people. So we're super stoked about all of that. I don't know what we're talking about. Great question. Listen, thanks for checking out the show. I don't know. Leave it a review. Change your pre header and later. You did it. You made it to the end. Nice. But the party's not over. Subscribe to make sure you get the latest episode each week for more actionable tips and a little chaos from today's top marketers. And hook us up with a five star review if this wasn't the worst podcast of all time. Lastly, if you want access to the best virtual marketing events that are also 100% free, visit guruevents.com so you can hear from the world's top marketers like Daymond John, Martha Stewart, and me, guruvents. Com. Check it out.