Ep.316 - [Limited Series]🥫SPAMAGEDDON🥫Biggest Email Deliverability MYTHS!

Summary

Podcast Summary: Ep.316 - [Limited Series]🥫SPAMAGEDDON🥫Biggest Email Deliverability MYTHS!

Podcast Information:

• Title: Do This, NOT That: Marketing Tips with Jay Schwedelson l Presented By Marigold
• Host/Author: GURU Media Hub
• Episode: Ep.316 - [Limited Series]🥫SPAMAGEDDON🥫Biggest Email Deliverability MYTHs!
• Release Date: April 24, 2025

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In this special episode of "Do This, NOT That!" titled "Spamageddon: Biggest Email Deliverability MYTHs!", hosts Jay Schwedelson, Guy Hanson, and Danielle Gallant collaborate in a crossover series with the Email After Hours podcast. The episode delves deep into the realm of email marketing, focusing on debunking prevalent myths that hinder email deliverability. Through insightful discussions, actionable tips, and myth-busting revelations, the trio equips marketers with the knowledge to enhance their email campaigns and ensure they land in the inbox rather than the dreaded spam folder.

1. Introduction to Spamageddon

The episode kicks off with enthusiastic introductions from the hosts:

• Jay Schwedelson announces the collaboration between the Email After Hours podcast and "Do This, NOT That!" emphasizing the aim to "rip through today’s email deliverability myths" (00:56).

• Guy Hanson and Danielle Gallant complement Jay, introducing themselves as key figures from Validity and co-hosts of the Email After Hours podcast.

The hosts engage in a lighthearted segment titled "You Have 10 Seconds," where they pose trivial questions to each other, setting a fun and engaging tone for the episode.

2. Myth Busting: Spam Trigger Words

Discussion Points:

The primary focus shifts to the first myth: Are spam trigger words like "free" actually causing emails to land in the junk folder and harming deliverability?

• Danielle Gallant addresses the myth by stating, "It's probably false. It is really unlikely" that such keywords alone are responsible for poor deliverability (02:34). She emphasizes that while these trigger words were once significant, their impact has diminished over time.

• Guy Hanson concurs, adding that the real issue lies in how subscribers respond to these words. "If they make your emails look a bit crap, you know, it's going to be lower engagement, it's going to be higher complaint rates, and then your deliverability underperforms" (03:38).

• Jay Schwedelson reinforces this by suggesting that using words like "free" can actually boost engagement, which in turn positively affects deliverability. "Using some of those words, let's say the word free, for example, it will actually increase the number of people opening and clicking and engaging with your emails" (04:04).

Notable Quotes:

• Danielle Gallant: "Unless your email is riddled with alternative fonts or every bad word in the book or is maybe written by, you know, an international scammer, those keywords or phrases aren't going to be your big problem." (03:35)

• Guy Hanson: "It's not about spam filters with rules which are testing them. I think it's about how subscribers respond to them." (03:38)

3. Debunking Bulk Sender Requirements

Discussion Points:

The conversation transitions to the second myth concerning Gmail and Yahoo’s bulk sender requirements introduced last year.

• Guy Hanson explains the initial bulk sender requirements: publishing a DMARC record for authentication, implementing a clear unsubscribe mechanism, and maintaining complaint rates below 0.3% (05:10).

• He further elaborates that these are just the "headline stories." Mailbox providers evaluate additional factors such as valid DNS records, TLS encryption, ARC records for forwarding, and compliance with impersonation rules (05:10).

• Danielle Gallant addresses the complexity of these requirements, reassuring marketers that their Email Service Providers (ESPs) typically handle these technical aspects. "Your ESP will be able to help you with both the unsubscribe implementation for sure. They're also going to be able to help you out with DMARC" (06:37).

• Jay Schwedelson summarizes the takeaway: Most marketers are likely already complying with these requirements, but those unsure should verify with their ESPs to ensure all standards are met. "If this is the first time you're hearing about it or you haven't actually checked to see if it's implemented, just do that" (07:09).

Notable Quotes:

• Guy Hanson: "Mailbox providers can see behaviors which you don't necessarily have visibility of recovering emails from junk or organically forwarding them to your friends and family." (05:10)

• Danielle Gallant: "This is not necessarily something the marketer has to do. Someone on your technical team is going to be able to help you with that." (06:37)

4. Understanding the Impact of Unsubscribes on Deliverability

Discussion Points:

The final myth addressed is whether unsubscribes negatively impact email deliverability.

• Guy Hanson dispels the fear around unsubscribes by differentiating them from spam complaints. "Opt out as a signal to the mailbox providers is neutral... Spam complaints are really bad. They trash your reputation, they make you look like a bad sender, and your deliverability gets worse" (07:47).

• He emphasizes the importance of making the unsubscribe process seamless to avoid spam complaints. "As a sender, you should probably be thinking about making it super easy and visible for your subscribers to opt out so that they don't complain" (07:47).

• Danielle Gallant echoes this sentiment, urging senders to promptly honor unsubscribe requests. "Please. People senders, remove people who have unsubscribed from your mail immediately. Do not wait the legal 10 days to do it because that is going to bite you later for sure." (09:19)

• Jay Schwedelson highlights the strategic advantage of facilitating easy unsubscribes to protect sender reputation. "Make sure it's easy to unsubscribe because they're going to find another way to complain and that way the complaint is going to actually be a problem for you" (08:32).

Notable Quotes:

• Guy Hanson: "If subscribers are engaging positively with your mail and you've set a good foundation, you're probably good." (03:35)

• Danielle Gallant: "One is hurting you, not spam complaints. The other unsubscribes are not." (08:32)

5. Conclusion and Final Takeaways

As the episode wraps up, the hosts reiterate the critical insights gleaned from their discussions:

• Spam Trigger Words: While outdated as direct triggers for spam filters, their strategic use can enhance engagement, positively influencing deliverability.

• Bulk Sender Requirements: Compliance is foundational. Leveraging ESPs to manage technical standards ensures robust deliverability.

• Unsubscribes vs. Spam Complaints: Facilitating easy unsubscribes safeguards against harmful spam complaints, maintaining sender reputation.

Final Thoughts:

• Danielle Gallant and Guy Hanson encourage marketers to focus on genuine engagement and adherence to best practices rather than fretting over outdated myths.

• Jay Schwedelson emphasizes the perpetual battle for inbox placement, urging listeners to stay informed and proactive in their email marketing strategies.

Notable Quotes:

• Jay Schwedelson: "Spamageddon. We are here. I'm so excited we're gonna be ripping through today's email deliverability myths." (00:56)

• Danielle Gallant: "If the offer is enticing, put it in there. If it's good value, we've liberated emails." (04:41)

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Key Takeaways for Marketers:

1. Reevaluate the Fear of Trigger Words: Focus on creating compelling content that engages your audience rather than avoiding specific words that are no longer primary spam triggers.

2. Ensure Compliance with Sender Standards: Utilize the expertise of your ESP to meet and maintain bulk sender requirements, keeping your email practices up-to-date with mailbox provider standards.

3. Facilitate Easy Unsubscribes: Prioritize a user-friendly unsubscribe process to minimize spam complaints and protect your sender reputation.

4. Prioritize Engagement Over Avoidance: High engagement rates have a more significant impact on deliverability than traditional spam filter triggers. Craft emails that resonate with your audience to foster positive interactions.

5. Stay Informed and Adaptable: The email marketing landscape is continually evolving. Stay abreast of the latest trends and regulations to maintain optimal deliverability and campaign effectiveness.

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This episode of "Do This, NOT That!" serves as an invaluable resource for marketers striving to master email deliverability. By debunking common myths and offering practical advice, Jay, Guy, and Danielle empower listeners to optimize their email strategies and achieve sustained success in their marketing endeavors.

Transcript

[Danielle Gallant]

Foreign.

[Jay Schwedelson]

Welcome to Spamageddon. This is a special five part crossover series between the email after hours podcast and the do this, not that podcast. We're going to keep these short. They're going to be fun. They're going to be awesome.

[Guy Hanson]

We're teaming up to help marketers battle the ultimate inbox apocalypse. Is your email program doomed, or can you survive the invasion of spam filters, block lists, and dwindling engagement?

[Danielle Gallant]

In this special series, we're going to bust myths, drop truth bombs, and give you the tips you need to survive the deliverability doomsday.

[Jay Schwedelson]

All right, so your host, you got me, Jay Schwedelson from the Guru Media Hub and the do this, not that podcast.

[Guy Hanson]

And I'm Guy Hanson. I'm VP of customer engagement at Validity and co host of our email after hours podcast.

[Danielle Gallant]

And I'm Danielle Gallant, also of Validity and Guy's better half on the email after hours podcast.

[Jay Schwedelson]

Spamageddon. We are here. I'm so excited we're gonna be ripping through today email deliverability myths. But before we get into that, every time we start one of these special segments, we're playing a game called you have 10 seconds. It has nothing to do with email or marketing. It is the dumbest questions of the world. And I'm going to ask it to Guy and then I'm going to ask it to Danielle, and it's not the same question. So everybody play at home. Let's see how you do. So, Guy, you only have 10 seconds to answer this question. Are you ready for the question?

[Guy Hanson]

I'm bricking myself. Let's go.

[Jay Schwedelson]

All right, here it is. You have 10 seconds. Name four things. Four foods that you dip in. Ranch dressing.

[Guy Hanson]

That's. I guess it's got to be maize crisps. I think you can dip fries into ranch dressing. You could dip chunks of burger into ranch dressing. And you know what you can dip your fingers into? Raw stressing.

[Jay Schwedelson]

I don't know what a maize crisp is, but I'm gonna try it out. It sounds gross.

[Danielle Gallant]

And that was the most British answer to the most American question I've ever.

[Jay Schwedelson]

All right, Danielle, are you ready for your 10 second question?

[Danielle Gallant]

I'm terrified. Let's do it.

[Jay Schwedelson]

Here we go. Danielle, name five pop stars who go by only one name.

[Danielle Gallant]

Cher. Madonna.

[Jay Schwedelson]

Come on, come on. We need another one.

[Danielle Gallant]

Guy, please, please help me.

[Guy Hanson]

Bono, Queen. Prince.

[Jay Schwedelson]

There it is.

[Guy Hanson]

All right.

[Danielle Gallant]

This is being subjected to those, like, fast math tests that you had to do. I'm gonna get better over the series, guys.

[Jay Schwedelson]

Well, while we May not have crushed that with guy saying use your finger and ranch dressing, which is totally gross. We are going to crush this. So let's jump right into it. Danielle, I got the first myth I want to ask you. Spam trigger words, things like the word free and all this other stuff, is it true or false that this is what is causing you to go to the junk folder and hurting your deliverability?

[Danielle Gallant]

It's. It's not true. It's probably false. It is really unlikely. Heuristics or those keywords, phrases, whatever, that used to trigger spam filtering, those are kind of dated. It's not really a thing anymore, but they definitely used to be. So unless. Unless your email is, like, riddled with alternative fonts or every bad word in the book or is maybe written by, you know, an international scammer, those keywords or phrases aren't going to be your big problem. Really? If subscribers are engaging positively with your mail and you've set a good foundation, you're probably good guy.

[Jay Schwedelson]

You agree with all that?

[Guy Hanson]

I do. I mean, I think those words still have a role to play, but not because of spam filters, you know, with rules which are testing them. I think it's about how subscribers respond to them. And if they make your emails look a bit crap, you know, it's going to be lower engagement, it's going to be higher complaint rates, and then your deliverability underperforms. So I think maybe those words still play a role, but not in the way that trigger words were understood ten years ago.

[Danielle Gallant]

Totally.

[Jay Schwedelson]

Would you all both agree that using some of those words, let's say the word free, for example, it will actually increase the number of people opening and clicking and engaging with your emails. And ironically, that engagement will help you to stay in the inbox. So is it that even these spam trigger words, I'm not saying to use the really bad words, that it actually might help your deliverability.

[Danielle Gallant]

I mean, if. If people weren't sending buy one, get one free emails, if that word free wasn't in there, we wouldn't really be doing a lot of business for those promotions. It can definitely help. If the offer is enticing, put it in there. If it's good value, we've liberated.

[Jay Schwedelson]

We've liberated emails. All right, we're going on to the next myth. Guy, I got one for you. So last year, Gmail and yah introduced these. These bulk sender requirements. And I think a lot of people out there like, okay, well, I'm doing the bare minimum now. I'm doing These requirements. So my deliverability is good. So first off, what, what are these requirements? Because a lot of people don't even still know about what they were. And if you are doing them, did you check the box? Is your deliverability now all set?

[Guy Hanson]

Wow. We're going to need like half a day, not 10 minutes, but quick answer. So the bulk sender requirements was you needed to publish a demark record for authentication, you needed to publish a list unsubscribe record for easy opting out, and you needed to keep your complaint rates below 0.3%. And what's a bulk sender? The common definition was anyone sending more than 5,000 emails a day. So I think a lot of people, a lot of senders are saying, well, we're doing all of that and we're still going to junk. What's happening? Well, the simple answer is those are just three of the headline stories. There's a lot more which the mailbox providers are looking for things like publishing valid DNS records and TLS encryption and ARC records for forwarding and maintaining compliance with Gmail's no impersonation rules. And then you still gotta demonstrate great engagement. And remember that the mailbox providers can see behaviors which you don't necessarily have visibility of recovering emails from junk or organically forwarding them to your friends and family. So there's a lot of stuff going on there. The new sender standards was just the starting point.

[Jay Schwedelson]

So let me toss this to you, Daniel. Let's say you're listening to this and you're like, what bulk sender requirements? I never even heard of that stuff. How hard is this to really do? Because a lot of people out there, maybe they're not technical, maybe they don't know how to use their platform. Is this something your platform does for you by default?

[Danielle Gallant]

Yeah, no, that's a really good question. I think when it becomes acronym soup and there's just an Alphabet coming at you, it can seem overwhelming, it can seem complicated. But these are actually really simple standards. Your ESP will be able to help you with both the unsubscribe implementation for sure. They're also going to be able to help you out with dmarc. So just turn to them. This is not necessarily something the marketer has to do. Someone on your technical team is going to be able to help you with that.

[Jay Schwedelson]

Yeah, and the takeaway here is if this is the first time you're hearing about it or you haven't actually checked to see if it's implemented, just do that. I would say, 90% of you out there, you're already doing it, whether you realize it or not. But if you're not, this could be the reason that you're having trouble for sure. I mean, this is table stakes now. All right, so one last topic before we wrap up this Spamageddon episode. Unsubscribes. People always freak out like, oh, no, our unsubscribed numbers are up or we got a really bad, nasty grammar. This must be the reason we're going to the junk folder or spam folder. Are unsubscribes hurting your deliverability? Are they a bad thing? I'm tossing this up to both of you.

[Guy Hanson]

Hey, I'll go first. So I think, listen, there's always going to be subscribers that want to leave your program. You know, that's natural. Get over it. If they are going to leave, there's two ways they can do it. They can opt out using the opt out link. If they can't find the opt out link or it's hard to use, they're going to register a spam complaint. Opt out as a signal to the metal box providers is neutral. You know, that's not an issue in their lives. Spam complaints are really bad. They trash your reputation, they make you look like a bad sender, and your deliverability gets worse. As a sender, you should probably be thinking about making it super easy and visible for your subscribers to opt out so that they don't complain.

[Jay Schwedelson]

Danielle, you agree with all that?

[Danielle Gallant]

Perfect answer. I mean, I just wish that senders cared as much about spam complaints as they cared about unsubscribes. One is hurting you, not spam complaints. The other unsubscribes are not.

[Jay Schwedelson]

You know, you just shared something guy that I never really thought of. But I'm going to do this, which is there's always this joke about you can't find the unsubscribe link. It's hard to unsubscribe. But to your point, I think we are incentivized to make the unsubscribe links crazy, big crazy obvious, really easy to find because if somebody can't find that, then they are going to do a spam complaint and that will hurt you. So I think the big takeaway here is make sure, don't be afraid of getting unsubscribes and make sure it's easy to unsubscribe because the they're going to find another way to complain and that way the complaint is going to actually be a problem for you and can.

[Danielle Gallant]

I offer a plea? Please. People Senders, remove people who have unsubscribed from your mail immediately. Do not wait the legal 10 days to do it because that is going to bite you later for sure.

[Jay Schwedelson]

100 and another thing that should be illegal is guy putting his fingers in ranch dressing. We've gotten that out of this episode. So any party words on Spamageddon? Our first episode.

[Guy Hanson]

Join us for the second one.

[Jay Schwedelson]

Amazing. All right, everybody, go and follow Email After Hours Podcast. It is incredible. It's one of my favorite shows. And if you're really bored, check out do this not that podcast. We'll see you at the next one. That's a wrap on this episode of Spamageddon. It's a battle for the inbox never ends. If you love this crossover chaos, you got to tune in the next time. And make sure to subscribe to Email After Hours Podcast. It is one of my favorites. And also check out do this not that podcast for marketers. It is a blast. We'll see you at the next episode.