Podcast Summary: "Attribution is Garbage 🗑️" | Bathroom Break #60 COLLAB: The Marketing Millennials + Do This, Not That

Release Date: June 16, 2025
Hosts: Daniel Murray (Marketing Millennials) & Jay Schwedelson (Do This, Not That)

Introduction to the Bathroom Break Series

The episode kicks off with Daniel Murray welcoming listeners to the special "Bathroom Break" series, designed to deliver quick marketing tips in a short, digestible format. Jay Schwedelson joins as co-host, introducing the collaborative nature of the series and setting the stage for a fun and informative discussion.

• Daniel Murray [00:01]: "Welcome to a new special series called the Bathroom Break."
• Jay Schwedelson [00:13]: "This collab is going to be super fun... we are going to go over quick tips about different marketing topics."

Personal Anecdotes: Finding New Restaurants and Newsletter Insights

Before diving into the main topic, the hosts engage in a light-hearted conversation about sourcing new restaurants to feature in their newsletters. Daniel explains his method for discovering trendy eateries, emphasizing the role of platforms like TikTok and Reddit, and the importance of local insights.

• Daniel Murray [01:08]: "Most of the stuff sometimes are just, like, repeat things that I do all the time... but I did feel cool the other day when I went to Vinny's Cafe because that was like TikTok fame."

Jay shares his contrasting approach, humorously admitting his preference for sticking to familiar restaurants delivered via food delivery services.

• Jay Schwedelson [11:26]: "I don't like going anywhere. So I stay home and I go on Ubereats. I order from the same five places."

Main Topic: The Flaws of Attribution in Marketing

The conversation seamlessly transitions to the critical topic of attribution in marketing. Jay introduces the central thesis: "attribution is total garbage."

• Jay Schwedelson [02:16]: "You're sleeping on this, man. This could be great. I'll tell you what's not great though. It's attribution measurement. So many people, it's garbage."

Daniel elaborates on the fundamental issues with attribution, arguing that marketers often overly rely on attribution models as definitive maps rather than as guiding compasses. He highlights the pitfalls of ignoring broader data sources, such as dark social.

• Daniel Murray [02:31]: "I just think that the problem with attribution is marketers should track things... but they treat attribution like it's the map... it's supposed to be just kind of like a compass."

The Complexity of Attribution Across Different Products

Jay discusses how attribution challenges vary based on product or service costs. He contrasts low-cost items like phone cases, where attribution can be straightforward, with high-ticket items such as SaaS subscriptions, where multiple touchpoints influence the purchasing decision.

• Jay Schwedelson [03:21]: "If you have a product that's like a phone case, that very inexpensive... attribution can be real. But if you're selling a $2,000 masterclass... you're not getting that new customer because of that last email."

Daniel adds that understanding the length of the sales cycle is crucial, especially in B2B contexts where decision-making spans months.

• Daniel Murray [03:21]: "How long is the average sales cycle... you have to look beyond and say, like, okay, if someone sees an ad, they usually buy 28 days later or 30 days later or six months later."

Strategies to Improve Attribution Accuracy

The hosts propose several strategies to address attribution issues:

1. Holistic Marketing Approach: Jay emphasizes moving away from isolated marketing tactics to a consistent, omnichannel strategy that keeps the brand top of mind.

   • Jay Schwedelson [05:39]: "You have to have a holistic view on your marketing. It needs to be consistent. It needs to be everywhere."

2. Internal Alignment Among Teams: Daniel stresses the importance of sales, marketing, and finance teams collaborating to define and agree upon attribution rules, reducing internal conflicts and ensuring unified revenue goals.

   • Daniel Murray [07:42]: "...you need to align what the meaning of influences with sales, with finance in the same room... revenue is a team sport."

3. Simplifying Marketing Channels: Jay shares a case study from his agency, where simplifying the website to a single call-to-action (booking a call) led to increased conversions by eliminating unnecessary touchpoints.

   • Jay Schwedelson [05:39]: "For my agency... we stripped our website. Our website now is one page. All you could do is book a call."

Leveraging Sales Calls and AI for Enhanced Attribution

The discussion moves to practical tools and approaches for refining attribution models:

• Sales Call Insights: Jay advocates for marketing and sales leaders to actively participate in sales calls to gain firsthand understanding of customer motivations and decision-making processes.

  • Jay Schwedelson [08:42]: "Their marketing leadership, their sales leadership, sit in on sales calls... they have to take the time to intentionally be on these calls ongoing."

• AI Integration: Daniel highlights the potential of AI in analyzing sales call data to uncover patterns in customer acquisition sources, enhancing the qualitative aspect of attribution.

  • Daniel Murray [09:25]: "...you can have tools that have AI... you can analyze the data... podcasts actually work... it's you gathering data from podcasts, from form, from all these different sources."

Concluding Insights

As the episode wraps up, the hosts circle back to their initial light conversation, maintaining the engaging and personable tone. They reiterate the key takeaway that traditional attribution models are insufficient and advocate for a more integrated and nuanced approach to marketing measurement.

• Jay Schwedelson [12:00]: "Attribution is garbage, and hopefully this episode isn't."

Daniel Murray encourages listeners to engage with their content and apply the discussed strategies to enhance their marketing effectiveness.

Notable Quotes

• Jay Schwedelson [02:16]: "It's attribution measurement. So many people, it's garbage."

• Daniel Murray [02:31]: "Attribution... shouldn't be your end all, be all."

• Jay Schwedelson [05:39]: "It needs to be consistent. It needs to be everywhere."

• Daniel Murray [07:42]: "Revenue is a team sport."

• Jay Schwedelson [08:42]: "If you're not doing that, I think that is a fail for your business."

• Daniel Murray [09:25]: "Qualitative stuff is so much... track that as religiously as you're tracking the numbers."

Key Takeaways

1. Reevaluate Attribution Models: Traditional attribution methods are often inadequate, especially for high-value or B2B products with extended sales cycles. Marketers should view attribution as a guiding tool rather than a definitive map.

2. Adopt a Holistic Marketing Strategy: Consistency and omnipresence across marketing channels are essential to maintain brand awareness and influence customer decisions over time.

3. Ensure Cross-Team Alignment: Sales, marketing, and finance teams must collaborate to establish clear attribution definitions and shared revenue goals, minimizing internal conflicts.

4. Leverage Qualitative Insights: Actively participating in sales calls and utilizing AI to analyze customer interactions can provide deeper insights into effective marketing influences.

5. Simplify Conversion Paths: Reducing complexity in marketing funnels, such as streamlining websites to focus on key actions like booking calls, can enhance conversion rates.

This episode of "Do This, Not That" featuring Daniel Murray from Marketing Millennials offers a critical examination of attribution in marketing, highlighting its limitations and proposing actionable strategies for improvement. By fostering team alignment, embracing holistic marketing approaches, and leveraging qualitative data, marketers can move beyond flawed attribution models to achieve more accurate and effective campaign measurements.