SPECIAL SERIES == Failing Fast Is a Power Move 🔥 <== | BATHROOM Break #68 COLLAB: The Marketing Millennials + Do This, Not That

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Failing Fast Is a Power Move" | Bathroom Break #68 COLLAB: The Marketing Millennials + Do This, Not That

Release Date: August 11, 2025

In this special collaborative episode of the “Bathroom Break” series, hosts Daniel Murray from Marketing Millennials and Jay Schwedelson from the “Do This, Not That” podcast delve into the pivotal role of failure in marketing. Titled "Failing Fast Is a Power Move," the episode offers listeners invaluable insights into embracing failure as a strategy for growth and success in the competitive marketing landscape.

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Introduction to the Bathroom Break Series

Daniel Murray (00:01):
“Welcome to a new special series called the Bathroom break. That extra 10 minutes you either have to listen to marketing tips or use the bathroom. Or both. But I don't recommend both. But that's your choice.”

The episode kicks off with the hosts introducing the “Bathroom Break” format—a concise, 10-minute dive into essential marketing tips designed to fit into a busy schedule. This collaborative effort between Marketing Millennials and Do This, Not That aims to provide actionable advice in a relaxed, conversational style.

Embracing Failure in Marketing

Jay Schwedelson (01:53):
“First of all, get very comfortable having failure because failure is actually how you grow in anything in your personal life, in your business, in your marketing.”

Jay emphasizes the necessity of embracing failure as a foundational element for growth. He highlights that in marketing, failure is not just inevitable but also a critical learning opportunity. For instance, he points out that an average email open rate below 50% is common, yet marketers often celebrate rates like 47%, underscoring the importance of setting realistic benchmarks.

Daniel Murray (02:34):
“Marketing is all about at bats. And it could be the 11th, 12, 13 thing you do that could catapult your brand to the next level.”

Daniel likens marketing efforts to baseball "at bats," suggesting that perseverance and multiple attempts are essential for eventual success. He underscores that not every campaign will succeed, but each failure brings valuable lessons that can inform future strategies.

Documenting and Learning from Failures

Daniel Murray (04:01):
“Failure is all about, we tested something and what do we learn from this test that we do so we don't repeat that mistake.”

Both hosts agree on the importance of documenting failures systematically. They advocate for maintaining detailed records of unsuccessful campaigns, including specifics like the wrong audience targeting, ineffective color schemes, or poor call-to-action (CTA) placements. This practice ensures that organizations can analyze and learn from past mistakes, preventing their recurrence.

Jay Schwedelson (04:49):
“You have to celebrate the fact that you're sharing the learnings internally.”

Jay stresses the need for a supportive environment where sharing failures is encouraged rather than stigmatized. By fostering a culture that views failures as collective learning experiences, teams can enhance their resilience and adaptability.

Implementing Kill Criteria for Campaigns

Daniel Murray (05:49):
“Have a kill criteria or a trip wire to say, like, after seven days, if I'm at like, conversion rates, don't raise by X percent or something doesn't happen here. We shut off this campaign and it's agreed upon ahead of time.”

Daniel introduces the concept of "kill criteria"—predefined metrics and timelines that determine when a campaign should be halted. This proactive approach prevents prolonged investment in underperforming initiatives, allowing marketers to reallocate resources to more promising strategies swiftly.

The Philosophy of Failing Fast

Jay Schwedelson (05:49):
“People get their ego tied to an idea. They themselves like the idea so much and they hold on to something and that's where they spend a lot of money. That's how businesses go out of business, is they just, they hold on too long.”

Jay champions the "fail fast" mentality, advocating for rapid identification and termination of ineffective ideas. He shares a personal anecdote about the Guru Awards, a project his media business launched and quickly discontinued upon realizing its lack of viability despite initial extensive planning. This decisive action allowed them to pivot and invest in more successful ventures.

Daniel Murray (06:44):
“Sometimes you have to pull the plug and go to things that are going to work because results matter at the end of the day.”

Daniel echoes Jay's sentiment, recounting Marketing Millennials' unsuccessful foray into TikTok. Recognizing the platform wasn't yielding desired growth despite multiple attempts, they made the strategic decision to focus on more effective channels, thereby optimizing their marketing efforts and resources.

Personal Reflections on Failure

Daniel Murray (07:55):
“I tried, like, keto and, like, I felt, like, super sick on keto, and I tried, like, trying vegetarian for a little bit. Hated that.”

Shifting to a more personal tone, Daniel shares his own experiences with failure outside of marketing, such as unsuccessful attempts at various diets. These anecdotes serve to humanize the conversation, illustrating that failure is a universal experience and reinforcing the episode's central theme.

Jay Schwedelson (08:24):
“So you're a failure.”

Daniel Murray (08:25):
“I'm a failure.”

Jay Schwedelson (08:28):
“Perfect. Yeah. Yeah. I fail all the time.”

The lighthearted exchange highlights that failure is not only common but also an integral part of personal and professional growth.

Closing Thoughts and Call to Action

As the episode wraps up, the hosts encourage listeners to share the podcast on social media and engage with their respective channels for more marketing insights. They reinforce the episode's key message: embracing and learning from failure is essential for achieving marketing success.

Jay Schwedelson (09:08):
“Check out my podcast, do this, not that, for Marketers. Each week we share really quick tips on stuff that can improve your marketing and hope you give it a try.”

Daniel Murray (09:08):
“Go follow the Market Millennials podcast, but also tune into this series. It's once a week, the Bathroom Break. We talk about marketing tips that we just spew out.”

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Key Takeaways

1. Embrace Failure: Accepting failure as a natural and necessary component of growth in marketing and business.
2. Document Learnings: Systematically record unsuccessful campaigns to extract valuable insights and prevent repeat mistakes.
3. Implement Kill Criteria: Set predefined metrics and timelines to evaluate and terminate underperforming campaigns swiftly.
4. Adopt a Fail Fast Mentality: Quickly identify and discontinue ineffective ideas to free up resources for more promising initiatives.
5. Foster a Supportive Culture: Encourage open discussion of failures within teams to promote collective learning and resilience.

Notable Quotes

• Jay Schwedelson (01:53):
  “Failure is actually how you grow in anything in your personal life, in your business, in your marketing.”

• Daniel Murray (02:34):
  “Marketing is all about at bats. And it could be the 11th, 12, 13 thing you do that could catapult your brand to the next level.”

• Daniel Murray (05:49):
  “Have a kill criteria or a trip wire to say, like, after seven days, if I'm at like, conversion rates, don't raise by X percent or something doesn't happen here. We shut off this campaign and it's agreed upon ahead of time.”

• Jay Schwedelson (05:49):
  “People get their ego tied to an idea. They themselves like the idea so much and they hold on to something and that's where they spend a lot of money.”

Conclusion

This episode of the “Bathroom Break” series serves as a compelling guide for marketers, emphasizing that failure, when strategically managed and learned from, can be a powerful catalyst for success. By fostering a culture that not only accepts but also systematically analyzes failures, marketers can enhance their strategies, optimize resource allocation, and ultimately drive more effective campaigns.

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For more marketing insights and actionable tips, tune into future episodes of "Do This, NOT That" and "The Marketing Millennials."

Transcript

[Daniel Murray]

Welcome to a new special series called the Bathroom break. That extra 10 minutes you either have to listen to marketing tips or use the bathroom. Or both. But I don't recommend both. But that's your choice.

[Jay Schwedelson]

This collab is going to be super fun. We have Daniel Murray from the Marketing Millennials and me, Jay Schwedelson from the do this not that podcast and subjectline.com each episode in the series, we are going to go over quick tips about different marketing topics. And if you want to be in the bathroom, fine, just don't tell us about it. Thanks for checking it out.

[Daniel Murray]

We are back with another episode of Bathroom Break. I'm here with the Jay Swedelson. I'll do this not that podcast. The number one podcast in the world. And I am Daniel Murray. And the question I have for you today is I, I know that, like, it's hot in Florida and are you like, pool guy? Are you a beach guy? Are you a water park guy? Like, what type of like? Or you just like, stay inside guy?

[Jay Schwedelson]

I'm 100, a pool person. I love a good pool and, you know, I really do like water parks, but my kids have aged out of it. They're like, you know, older teenagers. And Ally has always thought water parks are absolutely, literally the most disgusting things that exist on earth. Like, I think that she thinks Covid started in a water park somewhere, which it might be true. So, yeah, that's my job. I feel like you could crush a water park.

[Daniel Murray]

I love a good slide. Yeah, a good slide. You can't be a good or lazy river.

[Jay Schwedelson]

Laser is the best.

[Daniel Murray]

A good side or lazy river.

[Jay Schwedelson]

If you don't like a lazy river, you should unfollow my show. That's basically how strongly I feel. So what are we talking about today?

[Daniel Murray]

We're talking about failing in marketing. So why don't you kick it off and like, what is your view on, like, failure marketing? What should people do or how should they think about failure?

[Jay Schwedelson]

First of all, get, get very comfortable having failure because failure is actually how you grow in anything in your personal life, in your business, in your marketing. I mean, here I'm the email guy, right? So just think about email for a second. Most people out there, their average email open rate is less than 50%, right? So out of the gate, you're failing. You're failing to get the majority of people to actually even open up your emails. And yet we celebrate getting a 47% open rate. It's amazing. So I think the number one thing before you get into Little tactics and stuff is if you're not comfortable with failure, you're not going to grow. Period. End of story.

[Daniel Murray]

100%. I think marketing is all about at bats. And it could be the 11th, 12, 13 thing you do that could catapult your brand to the next level. Get seen by someone else. And the good thing is, like, nobody really likes really, unless it's like a terrible thought. Sees the bad marketing you do because it doesn't get unseen. It gets unseen. People don't recognize it. So failing's okay. But I. One thing that we've. I used to. What I highly recommend is if you like failure should be reversed and thought. Thought about like a learning document. Like, like, failure is all about, like, we tested something and what do we learn from this test that we do so we don't repeat that mistake? What I see a lot of mistakes people make is like, they're very. They're like, okay with failure. But then nobody documents that flopped email, that flopped landing page, that, that flop campaign. And like, the learnings, like, was it the wrong audience? Was this color was a cta? Like, you have to do that and share that through an org. Because I see time and time again people make the same mistakes because they didn't share, like, the actual takeaways and learnings from that. And that's like, I think that's worse than failing, not actually having a learning from the failure.

[Jay Schwedelson]

It's so true. Because what happens is you do a campaign that does well, and it was like, okay, what did we do? We got to do that again. And when you break down things, you do want to document your failures, but you have to document the tactics used, all the different tactics, and you have to put them into buckets so you know what didn't work. And the other big thing is that when you are documenting all of this, okay, it's not like you're throwing shade on somebody goes, oh, that wasn't great. That was your idea. That was whatever. You have to celebrate the fact that you're sharing the learnings internally. And you can't make people feel uncomfortable about a failure occurring because if you don't have an environment where failure is acceptable, then you're gonna have a really hard time as a business or as a marketing department growing in any way.

[Daniel Murray]

I also think that, like, when you go into a campaign that you run or anything you run, you need to have a kill criteria or a trip wire to say, like, after seven days, if I'm at like, conversion rates, don't raise by x percent or something doesn't happen here. We shut off this campaign and it's agreed upon ahead of time. Like, you need to have some sort of tripwire in your system that flag something because otherwise you can go for months and months and not and run a failed, your failed marketing for a long time. So I recommend, like, you know, that the campaign could probably, there's a chance it could fail. So have a, A, A, A key metric that you're tracking against. And you know, if we hit this, if we don't hit this metric or we, we're trending way below it, kill this campaign and have that timeline mapped out so everybody's on the same page that like, okay, it's okay to kill this if we hit, don't hit this metric, you know.

[Jay Schwedelson]

And in general, from a bigger business standpoint, I'm a big believer in failing fast. People get their ego tied to an idea. They themselves like the idea so much and they hold on to something and that's where they spend a lot of money. That's how businesses go out of business, is they just, they stay, they hold on too long. I'll give you an example. So with my media business, grew media hub, we put on these events, whatever, and we're like, oh, we should have an awards program. And we came up with this whole big idea. We thought it was gonna be incredible. We launched Guru Awards, which probably nobody's ever heard of because we launched it and it was horrendous. Even though we had it all mapped out, we had a whole plan, but we knew really fast. We're like, you know what? There's no legs here. Even if this thing doubles or triples or quadruples in performance, there's no legs here. And, and we killed it. And we learned a lot from it. And we doubled down other places. But holding on is, is really how you hurt a business.

[Daniel Murray]

I think we all have those one or two examples. Like even with like the marketing millennials, we really thought, I thought three years ago that we can, we should go on TikTok. And we just weren't good at doing it and we weren't seeing any growth. And we, I made it decision, like, let's just double down on the two channels that were working because, like, Tik Tok flopped. Like, for us, we couldn't put the content on that channel to make it work. So we pulled the channel instead of just keeping putting bad stuff out to the world. So, like, sometimes you have to pull it. And it also is like the thing too, with, like continuing on that path, it's like you're taking resources away from things that are excit. Like you're going to. That could actually work. So make sure, like, you're. You're not having your ego tied to a campaign, even if it was your idea. Just, like, pull the plug and go to things that are going to work because results matter at the end of the day.

[Jay Schwedelson]

So speaking of failures, have you ever tried, like, a diet or something and you just failed? Or everything that you try in your personal life, you just. You crush it? Or a new workout routine?

[Daniel Murray]

So many. I had a Barry's Boot Camp era.

[Jay Schwedelson]

Oh, I like the Barry's.

[Daniel Murray]

And then. And then I had a.

[Jay Schwedelson]

Era.

[Daniel Murray]

It was an error. And then I had. I used to work for this company called Snack Nation, where I met Ari, and we was like, a very health company, so, like, so many people. So I tried, like, keto and, like, I felt, like, super sick on keto, and I tried, like, trying vegetarian for a little bit. Hated that. So it's, like, flopped a lot of.

[Jay Schwedelson]

So you're a failure.

[Daniel Murray]

I'm a failure.

[Jay Schwedelson]

Perfect. Yeah. Yeah. I fail all the time. I'm very. I'm actually the only thing I'm. I don't fail at is failing. So there you go. All right, well, thanks for checking this out. Hey, share this on your story on Instagram, tag the Marketing Millennials or at J. Schweddelson, and we will put you in our story if you put us in your story. So keep it real and. Yeah, later, Daniel. Come on, man. I gotta get back to work. Get out of there. All right, while he's still in there. This is Jay. Check out my podcast, do this, not that, for Marketers. Each week we share really quick tips on stuff that can improve your marketing and hope you give it a try. Oh, here's Daniel. He's finally out.

[Daniel Murray]

Back from my bathroom break. This is Daniel. Go follow the Market Millennials podcast, but also tune into this series. It's once a week, the Bathroom Break. We talk about marketing tips that we just spew out. And it could be anything from email, subject line to any marketing tips in the world. We'll talk about it. Just give us a. A shout on LinkedIn and tell us what you want to hear. Peace out.