SPECIAL SERIES == Rename That “Ebook”! 📚 Simple Naming Wins for Marketers <== | BATHROOM Break #59 COLLAB: The Marketing Millennials + Do This, Not That

Summary

Episode Summary: "Rename That 'Ebook'! 📚 Simple Naming Wins for Marketers"

Podcast Title: Do This, NOT That: Marketing Tips with Jay Schwedelson Presented By Marigold
Host/Author: GURU Media Hub
Release Date: June 9, 2025
Episode Title: SPECIAL SERIES == Rename That “Ebook”! 📚 Simple Naming Wins for Marketers | BATHROOM Break #59 COLLAB: The Marketing Millennials + Do This, Not That

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Introduction

In this special collaboration episode of "Do This, NOT That!" hosted by Jay Schwedelson, Jay teams up with Daniel Murray from the "Marketing Millennials" podcast. They engage in a lively discussion centered around the pivotal role of naming in marketing strategies, particularly focusing on how the names of content pieces and offers can significantly impact engagement and conversion rates.

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The Importance of Naming in Marketing

Moving Beyond Generic Terms

Jay and Daniel highlight a common pitfall in marketing: overemphasis on content creation without sufficient attention to the naming of that content. They argue that even the most valuable content can underperform if it isn't aptly named. Jay states:

"But we don't spend enough time on the actual name of the content or the sale or the offer. And if we don't have the right name, then who cares what's inside?"
[Jay Schwedelson, 02:41]

Transforming Perceptions with Naming

Daniel concurs, emphasizing that traditional names like "white paper," "webinar," or "ebook" often carry connotations of being boring or unengaging. He suggests renaming these to more dynamic and appealing titles to enhance their attractiveness:

"If you change like the name to like ebook to like, here's my playbook, like, or here's my, like, guide to something, it's way more convincing to do." [Daniel Murray, 02:41]

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Testing and Optimizing Content Names

A/B Testing for Better Performance

Jay provides data-driven insights, illustrating the tangible benefits of renaming content. For instance, renaming an "ebook" to a "guide" can lead to a 30% higher download rate. He underscores the importance of treating the name as a critical variable in marketing experiments:

"If you're not testing that as a variable, you're leaving a huge thing on the table. And that's why your response Rates are down." [Jay Schwedelson, 03:47]

Practical Testing Strategies

Daniel shares actionable tactics for marketers to implement these insights immediately:

"Like just say you send an email marketing. You can have split test the CTA to like download guide, download ebook, have the landing page just switch guide and ebook on both sides and see how, what the difference is." [Daniel Murray, 04:48]

He further advises segmenting audiences and tailoring names accordingly to resonate more deeply with specific groups.

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Crafting Effective Headlines and Hooks

The Power of Headlines

Daniel emphasizes the critical role of headlines and hooks in capturing audience attention. He references advertising legend David Ogilvy to highlight that a significant portion of marketing success hinges on the effectiveness of the headline:

"Ogilvy used to say that 80% of your dollars spent is on the headline." [Daniel Murray, 06:04]

Pre-Writing Headline Generation

Before creating any content, Daniel advocates for developing multiple potential headlines to identify the most compelling one. This proactive approach ensures that the content has a strong starting point for engagement.

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Mindset Shift: Naming as the First Impression

Drawing Analogies to Everyday Choices

Jay draws a relatable analogy comparing marketing names to restaurant menu items, emphasizing that just as diners often choose dishes based on descriptive names before tasting them, marketers should prioritize naming to attract interest:

"When you go to a restaurant, you don't try a dish. You try the name that you read in the menu. And that's exactly how it works for your sale or for your content offer." [Jay Schwedelson, 08:08]

This perspective reinforces the idea that the name serves as the gateway to the content or offer, making it a crucial element in the decision-making process.

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Practical Application: Segmenting Offers

Customized Naming for Targeted Audiences

Both hosts discuss the effectiveness of customizing offer names based on audience segmentation. For example, tailoring a sale name to specific customer groups (e.g., "Ultimate Swimsuit Sale" vs. "Big Summer Blowout") can make the offer more relevant and appealing to each segment.

"If you segment your list and call it differently by segmentation, like Jay said too, it will help a lot because then people know like the sales for me, instead of saying it's just a general sale for everybody." [Daniel Murray, 06:42]

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Conclusion

Jay Schwedelson and Daniel Murray conclude the episode by reinforcing the significance of strategic naming in enhancing marketing effectiveness. They encourage marketers to invest time in crafting and testing names for their content and offers, highlighting it as a low-effort, high-impact tactic that can lead to substantial improvements in engagement and conversions.

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Key Takeaways:

1. Importance of Naming: The name of your content or offer is as crucial as the content itself in driving engagement.
2. Testing Names: Implement A/B testing to determine which names resonate best with your audience.
3. Segmentation: Customize names based on audience segments to increase relevance and appeal.
4. Headlines Matter: Invest in crafting compelling headlines and hooks to maximize the effectiveness of your marketing materials.
5. First Impressions: Treat naming like a restaurant menu—make it enticing to attract interest before the content is even consumed.

By focusing on these strategies, marketers can unlock significant improvements in their campaigns' performance and overall effectiveness.

Transcript

[Daniel Murray]

Welcome to a new special series called the Bathroom break. That extra 10 minutes, you either have to listen to marking tips or use the bathroom or both. But I don't recommend both. But that's your choice.

[Jay Schwedelson]

This collab is going to be super fun. We have Daniel Murray from the Marketing Millennials, and me, Jay Schwedelson from the do this, not that podcast and subjectline.com each episode in the series, we are going to go over quick tips about different marketing topics. And if you want to be in the bathroom, fine. Just don't tell us about it. Thanks for checking it out. We are back for the Bathroom Break. This is Jay Schwedelson from Do this, not that. And I'm here with the man himself, Daniel Murray. And before we get into an awesome topic, today, Daniel and I went out for dinner. We had a great time, but Daniel lives about an hour away from me. He lives in Miami. I live in Boca. And, Daniel, when you went home, you hit massive traffic. So I want to know something. Do you get, like, do you start freaking out? Do you, like, curse at people, give people the middle finger? Or are you like, you know what? It's okay. I'm super chill, man.

[Daniel Murray]

Well, let me give a context. This is the worst thing that happened because I. If I'm preparing mentally that, like, it says it's going to be an hour and a half home and there's traffic, I'm fine. But what happened is I left boca at, like, 10:15, and I'm like, oh, we're all like, we're 30 minutes in this, and I'm in North Miami. And they shut down the whole freeway from North Miami all the way to where I live. And it ended up. I have to. I had to, like, get off the freeway. And then I started getting angry. I was like. But I was more angry at, like, the city of Miami for doing this. Also. I was also angry that people started using, like, the side, the shoulder. Like, like. So when people would try to exit the freeway, people were, like, driving on the grass and stuff. And that was really annoying. Um, my bug was boiling, though.

[Jay Schwedelson]

That's good for Bathro break. Good update there. And by the way, for everyone who thinks I'm a jerk that I didn't meet Daniel halfway. He did not want to meet halfway. He wanted to come to Boca. So I'm sorry you had road rage or whatever you had. But let's get into the topic of the day. This is a really important one. And this applies to business marketers or consumer marketers. Everybody Spends so much time on the content. Oh, we need a new piece of content to promote and get out there. Or we need a new webinar, or we need a special sale. But. But we don't spend enough time on the actual name of the content or the sale or the offer. And if we don't have the right name, then who cares what's inside? Who cares what the offer is or the content is? So, Daniel, do you subscribe to that? Do you believe that?

[Daniel Murray]

Yes, because I feel like, especially in B2B, let's start the B2B examples with names like white paper, webinar, ebook. Those are names. Now people are like, synonymously of things that are boring, not helpful, or I don't want to read that. But if you change like the name to like ebook to like, here's my playbook, like, or here's my, like, guide to something, it's way more convincing to do. Do that or webinar, which you, you. We both do something different. I like, I call my big virtual event a year a festival because like, I, I don't want to call it a web, a huge conference because conferences seem boring. So I call it a marketing festival. It's just a quick naming change to just. It also sets expectation what the content is. If you, the name, the name, like a playbook says expectation, you're going to get like the play, play by play, or like something that I can use right now where like an ebook doesn't really tell you anything that you're gonna get.

[Jay Schwedelson]

Yeah. And just to play off that a little bit, here's some data, like, and everyone out there, think about it this way. Let's say you had a new guide that you were trying to get people to download. Okay, you don't need to call it a guide. What is the difference really between a guide, an ebook, a checklist, a blueprint, and if you're not testing the format name, you're missing out on a key variable. First of all, you never promote an ebook. Nobody actually downloads an ebook. Nobody reads an ebook. If you are being given an ebook to promote, change that to being called a guide. We see. If you go ebook versus guide, we see a 30% higher download rate for guide. But even beyond that, for the same content piece, you can call it a checklist, you can call it a playbook, and that will go even better than a guide. The most important thing is if you're not testing that as a variable, you're leaving a huge thing on the table. And that's why your response Rates are down. So, Daniel, how else does this apply to things like, you know, consumer offers or other things?

[Daniel Murray]

I. I just want to add one more thing to that. Is the, an easy way to test that. Like just say you send an email marketing. You can have split. Test the CTA to like download guide, download ebook, have the landing page just switch guide and ebook on both sides and see how, what the difference is. Like, it's an easy test that you could run right now to test which one works better with your audience. So that's an easy test. The other thing to think about and is renaming a sale to something different. Jay had some good names for this, like big summer blowout and stuff like that. What was it? What was your. What's your sale name?

[Jay Schwedelson]

So let's say you do have a sale, okay. And you're like, okay, this is our special summer savings. And you're like, okay, that's what it is. So we'll just call that. And then you move on to making sure your website's optimized. All that stuff. What you are calling that sale is everything. It could be the ultimate swimsuit sale, right? The ultimate coaches sale. If you're a coach or whatever, versus, you know, our big summer sale. I will tell you this. What you call it as an a B test, one of them is going to be the winner. You can't just test the creative. You can't just test the subject line. You have to be testing the name of your content, the name of your offers.

[Daniel Murray]

And if you, if you even want to go deeper with that is like if you do segmentation, you can be like, this is a sale for tennis players. This is a sale for basketball players. This is a. And segment your list and call it differently. On your list and on those product pages, you can have different names because that you've like separated your, your list to those different things. So you can call it differently by segmentation like Jay said too. And that will help a lot because then you people know like the sales for me, instead of saying the sal, this is just a general sale for everybody.

[Jay Schwedelson]

Now you were saying like, you need to have like 15 headlines or something. What were you saying before?

[Daniel Murray]

I think that before you write any piece of content ever, you should know that if the headline and the hook of the piece of content is good before you even start writing the piece. So what I like to do before I write any like newsletter or any piece of content is I'll write 20 headlines for every piece of content, even for emails. Like, I will write 20 subject lines and see which ones I would like. Pick two to a B test. But still I will have like. And then I'll write my email. Because if nobody's opening or reading the cash for the first line, like Ogilvy used to say that like 80. Your headline's 80% of your dollars spent. Like, it's like if you're. That is your main thing to get something open. And that naming of your headline is so important. And most people, what they do is do the landing page first or do the write the whole piece of content then come up. But if your hook is not good, even with social media, come up with the hook before you record the whole piece of content is so important before you do that. So that's why like we're talking about is like naming the piece of content, but also naming that headline of what this is is so important to get people to take the next action. And that's the whole goal.

[Jay Schwedelson]

Yeah. And I really think it's a change of mindset. You know, when you go to a restaurant, you don't try a dish. You try the name that you read in the menu. And that's exactly how it works for your sale or for your content offer. People aren't trying. They're not interested in your content or your offer. They're interested in what it's called. So spend a lot of time and energy on what you're calling it and test it and retest it and change it. Speaking of menu, so Daniel and I went out for dinner and Daniel, you crushed sushi. So what is your like, you know, when you look at a menu, do you just automatically go to, like, certain things? Like. Cause are you never like a burger guy? Like, what's your go to when you look at a menu?

[Daniel Murray]

This is gonna sound so ex football player, but I go straight to like, what are the proteins on the, like, menu? Like, heavy? Yeah, protein heavy. And it's just. I'm also South African and I grew up on just meat and like potato type thing. So it's. I go straight to the Ari's. The opposite, she'll go straight to carbs. So she'll order the carb. I'll try to find the best protein on the menu.

[Jay Schwedelson]

Would you order like just a salad?

[Daniel Murray]

No, no.

[Jay Schwedelson]

Would you go to a vegan restaurant?

[Daniel Murray]

But I would go to a salad. I would order a salad if it was at Vinny's Cafe.

[Jay Schwedelson]

You're so stupid. There's a cafe right near where I live called Vinny's. It's viral on TikTok, and they make the world's biggest salads. It's very annoying that it went viral on TikTok because it's a decent salad place, but you can get in because it went viral on TikTok and because people like Daniel talk about it, which is super annoying.

[Daniel Murray]

Oh, well, this is the funniest thing Jay said. I told him I went to Vinnie's because I came up early to Boca, and he's like, it's not that good. And then his wife goes, didn't you get that for lunch? And aren't you trying to eat this after he already had Vinnies at home? Like, and he's hating on. He was hating on me getting Vinnies.

[Jay Schwedelson]

I know I'm going to get canceled at Vinny's now. They're not going to let me back in. Listen, everybody here, do Daniel a solid. Go and follow the Marketing Millennials. It is an incredible. My favorite podcast. I like it more than mine, for sure. And leave him a review, tell him he's awesome, and, yeah, we'll see you at the next one. Daniel, come on, man. I got to get back to work. Get out of there. All right, while he's still in there. This is Jay. Check out my podcast, do this, not that, for Marketers. Each week we share really quick tips on stuff that can improve your marketing and hope you give it a try. Oh, here's Daniel. He's finally out.

[Daniel Murray]

Back from my bathroom break. This is Daniel. Go follow the Market Millennials podcast, but also tune into this series. It's once a week, the Bathroom Break. We talk about marketing tips that we just spew out. And it could be anything from email, subject line to any marking tips in the world. We'll talk about it. Just give us a shout on LinkedIn and tell us what you want to hear. Peace out.

[Jay Schwedelson]

Later.