SPECIAL SERIES ===> Say This First: Hooks That Convert! 🪝<=== | BATHROOM Break #37 (COLLAB: The Marketing Millennials + Do This, Not That)

Summary

Podcast Summary: "SPECIAL SERIES ===> Say This First: Hooks That Convert! 🪝"

Episode: Bathroom Break #37
Release Date: January 13, 2025
Hosts: Jay Schwedelson (Do This, Not That Podcast) & Daniel Murray (The Marketing Millennials)

---

Introduction and Collaboration

In this special episode of the "Bathroom Break" series, Jay Schwedelson from the "Do This, Not That" podcast teams up with Daniel Murray from "The Marketing Millennials" to deliver quick, actionable marketing tips. The casual and engaging atmosphere sets the stage for an insightful discussion on enhancing marketing strategies through effective hooks.

Defining Clickbait: Good vs. Bad

Timestamp [02:40]

The primary focus of the episode is the concept of clickbait in marketing. Jay introduces a provocative stance: “Clickbait is good” (02:40). He clarifies that while traditional clickbait—where the headline promises something unrelated to the actual content—is detrimental, using compelling hooks to attract attention is beneficial.

Jay Schwedelson:
“I think the word clickbait has got a bad rap. It should be leaned into, as long as the hook delivers on the promise of the content” (02:40).

Daniel concurs, emphasizing the distinction between spammy tactics and strategic hooks that drive engagement.

Daniel Murray:
“When I say clickbait is good, I’m really talking about aggressive hooks, especially in your subject lines… They’re the start of your social media video. If you’re not hooking people early, they’re not staying” (04:26).

Effective Hook Strategies

Timestamp [04:26] - [07:46]

Both hosts delve into the mechanics of crafting effective hooks. Jay cites a statistic highlighting the potency of negative subject lines, stating they are “three times more effective than something positive” (04:26). This aligns with the inherent human curiosity and desire to avoid negative outcomes.

Jay Schwedelson:
“The number one goal in marketing is to get attention. If you’re not getting attention, you’re failing at marketing” (05:04).

Daniel expands on the necessity of capturing attention within the first few seconds, especially on platforms like LinkedIn, which is evolving to resemble TikTok in its video content delivery.

Daniel Murray:
“Every day is getting more and more like TikTok… You need to see this tactic or latest 2025 trends written in bold letters on your video as a written hook” (06:05).

Platform-Specific Insights

Timestamp [06:05] - [07:46]

The discussion highlights how different platforms require tailored hook strategies. On LinkedIn, for instance, the integration of written hooks directly into video content is becoming essential due to changes in how videos are displayed.

Jay shares innovative approaches like Instagram’s new feature allowing users to trial Reels with a non-follower group. This enables marketers to test different hooks and select the most effective one before a full-scale release.

Jay Schwedelson:
“Spotify’s new feature lets you trial your reels with a non-follower group before you post it to everybody” (06:05).

Practical Tips and Tools

Timestamp [07:46] - [08:48]

Both hosts provide actionable advice for marketers:

1. Optimizing Subject Lines: Replace generic phrases with more compelling alternatives.

   • Instead of “Try this,” use “Do this.”
   • Instead of “Watch this,” use “Don’t miss this.”

2. Testing Hooks: Utilize A/B testing for hooks to determine which versions resonate best with the audience.

3. Bold Written Hooks: For video content, ensure the first few words are prominently displayed on the screen to instantly grab attention.

4. Consistent Application: Apply these strategies consistently across all marketing channels to differentiate your content from competitors.

Daniel Murray:
“If you’re not using aggressive hooks, people are going to ignore your emails and you need to get the email open” (04:26).

Final Thoughts

The episode wraps up with a reaffirmation of the importance of hooks in modern marketing. Jay and Daniel encourage marketers to embrace bold, attention-grabbing strategies while maintaining authenticity and relevance to their content. By doing so, marketers can significantly enhance engagement and conversion rates.

Daniel Murray:
“Please keep doing them [boring hooks] because then our posts will stand out” (07:46).

Notable Quotes

• Jay Schwedelson [02:40]:
  “Clickbait is good. It’s part of the human psyche that it works. So you should lean into it.”

• Daniel Murray [04:26]:
  “The number one goal in marketing is to get attention, whether you like it or not.”

• Jay Schwedelson [05:04]:
  “If you’re not getting attention, you’re failing at marketing.”

• Daniel Murray [06:05]:
  “You need to see this tactic or latest 2025 trends written in bold letters on your video as a written hook.”

---

Conclusion

This episode of "Bathroom Break" offers valuable insights into the strategic use of hooks in marketing. By distinguishing between effective hooks and detrimental clickbait, Jay and Daniel provide marketers with practical strategies to enhance their campaigns’ effectiveness. Whether through optimized subject lines, platform-specific tactics, or innovative testing methods, the hosts emphasize the critical role of attention-grabbing techniques in achieving marketing success.

---

For more marketing tips and strategies, follow Jay Schwedelson on the "Do This, Not That" podcast and Daniel Murray on "The Marketing Millennials." Tune into future episodes of "Bathroom Break" for additional insights and actionable advice.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign. Welcome to a new special series called the Bathroom break. That extra 10 minutes you either have to listen to marketing tips or use the bathroom. Or both. But I don't recommend both. But that's your choice.

[B]

This collab is going to be super fun. We have Daniel Murray from the Marketing Millennials and me, Jay Schwetelson from the do this, not that podcast and subjectline.com each episode in the series, we are going to go over quick tips about different marketing top topics. And if you want to be in the bathroom, fine. Just don't tell us about it. Thanks for checking it out.

[A]

Welcome back to another episode of Bathroom Break. I'm here with the man, the myth, the legend, Jay Shreddelson of Do this, not that Podcast. And I'm Daniel Murray from the Market Millennials. Excited to chat today. Jay, I want to kick it off with something. I know you are very meticulous or like, your fan is very meticulous on what days of the week you eat certain foods. So could I get, like, at least, like, a Monday through Thursday? What are the. What's the schedule?

[B]

No. I appreciate you asking that. So, yeah, we do. We schedule out on what we're gonna eat every week. The only day that we have fully locked in is Tuesdays, which is salmon night. It used to be Mondays. We've been doing this easily for 10 years. The reason we had to move it from Mondays to Tuesdays is every Monday we'd all get home from work and school and be like, oh, we have the worst meal. We have salmon night. So we had a vote, the four of us, and we moved it to Tuesday night. We also generally have turkey chili sometimes on Thursday nights, not always Thursday nights. But we're very, you know, locked in because if we eat well during the week, then we eat like crap on the weekends. That's kind of the plan. Do you have anything like that in your life? Are you planned out like that?

[A]

No. Me and Ari actually set a resolution that Thursday nights is always going to be our date night from now on. So Thursday is when we're gonna always go on date night. So we're gonna do this thing where we, like, have chill meals like the rest the week, and Thursday night is where we're just gonna ball, get really.

[B]

Fancy, go out and really dress up.

[A]

And do it all the night.

[B]

Look at you. Very nice. I like it.

[A]

But once I. Once I settle down more like you. I can do salmonite, but at least you can hear Omega 3. So I'm.

[B]

I'm happy for that, yeah, I tried it. Gotta be healthy, gotta be out there. So let's talk about today's topic. Today we're talking about hot take, which is clickbait. And I'm gonna just say it out loud. Clickbait is good. What, what do you think about that hot take?

[A]

I think the word clickbait has got a bad rap. It shy markers away from doing actions that they should be doing to get people to open the emails, watch their videos, read their LinkedIn posts. But it works. It's part of a human psyche that it works. So you should lean into it. But there is such thing as clickbait is when you write a hook that has nothing to do with what you're talking about. So if the hook doesn't deliver on the promise of the email or isn't referenced in the email, then I think it's just a spammy click baity, whatever. The actual things that people think of. Clickbait, that's my take on that and.

[B]

I totally agree with that. And let me give you some forms of clickbait which are total garbage, but I don't agree with and ones that I think are important. So let's talk about email. For example, when I say clickbait is good, that does not mean I'm a fan of the fake re. Colon subject lines, the fake reply subject lines. To me, that's total garbage. That's weird. Clickbait. I'm not into it, but when I say clickbait is good, I'm really talking about aggressive hooks, especially in your subject lines. For example, that if you're not using them, people are going to ignore your emails and you need to get the email open. So when a subject line says something like, you know, you're not going to believe this, dot, dot, dot, or this is one mistake. You could not. One mistake could cost you everything. Or are you making this huge error? You know, these types of subject lines, while they may be deemed people might call them clickbait, to me they're a hook. And whether it's in your email subject line, it's the start of your social media video. The first few words that you're saying, if you're not hooking people in early, they're not staying. So that's the type of clickbait that I think is worth testing and getting comfortable doing, even if you're uncomfortable doing it.

[A]

And I think I saw a stat that a negative subject line, a negative hook is actually three times more effective than something positive. It's just the human nature to Open that email. I mean, the whole point of us as marketers is to get people to watch our videos, to get people to read our emails. Me and the founder of Workweek, Adam Ryan, always agree that the number one goal in marketing is to get attention, whether you like it or not. Like, if you're not getting attention, you're failing at marketing. So our whole goal is trying to get attention. This is one of the best ways to at least grab initial attention with your audience.

[B]

Yeah. And nobody's going to give you the time that you want. Meaning, like, if you don't get them in the first few seconds, you're done. You know, one of the biggest changes that's happened right now on LinkedIn, for example, is LinkedIn, every day is getting more and more like TikTok and now LinkedIn videos, especially on the app, which is the majority of where people are consuming the content. When you see a video, a vertical video on LinkedIn no longer are the words that you're writing to go along with that video post showing up in a prominent way. They've really been downgraded in terms of where they're putting the actual written words along with that video. So now you not only need a hook at the start of what you're saying in your LinkedIn video, you need the hook to be written on the actual screen to start the video. Like the first four words. Like, you need to see this tactic or latest 2025 trends, whatever, and it needs to be written in bold letters on your video as a written hook. Because that's a big change now that's happened.

[A]

LinkedIn and I mean YouTube and TikTok have done this because they're more of a grid, grid type post. So when you scroll down, it kind of gives you a thumbnail of what this video is going to be about. But LinkedIn just hasn't really caught on to being good at videos. But I'll give some things that I saw this video the other day and I think this is actually, I'm going to try to remember what they said. But there are certain words you can talk about when, when doing a hook for your video. For example, like what would flop or what wouldn't flop. So, for example, instead of saying, I think in the for a hook for a video, you say, here's why. Instead of saying, watch this, you say, don't miss this. Instead of saying, help, you say, get you. Instead of saying, try this, you say, do this. Instead of saying, you shouldn't do, you should say, stop doing. Instead of saying, Think about, you should say, imagine there's like certain words that can change a video from flopping. And actually, I'll actually tell you one thing, Jake, because I don't know if you know this. Instagram just released a new feature that you can trial your reels with a non follower group before you post it to everybody else so you can flip on the trial video. So what I've seen people doing is they post two videos with two different thumbnails, are two different hooks, put them both on trial, see which one works better, and then let the one that with the try, the one that's succeeding go to their followers. So that's the technique that people are doing right now where you could test different.

[B]

That's cool. I have to test that out. I have to get better with my hooks. And so really the theme of the day is clickbait is really not, in my opinion, a thing. It's aggressive hooks. And if you think you're just going to win the day by having these boring subject lines and boring social media posts, good luck to you. But please keep doing them because then Daniel's post and my posts and our emails will stand out because we'll be doing the hooks. So we need you all to write the boring stuff so our stuff stands out. So you keep doing you. So do you already have a place picked out for date night this week or is. Is that not there yet?

[A]

Yeah, we're doing this Italian restaurant that's in. In our town. So we have date night picked out tonight and we will have me and Aria splitting up like planning the Thursday night date night. So yeah, that's our resolution is to keep make sure that we. We're pretty good at date nights, but we want to make sure that it lasts on beyond this year, next year, the following year. So we picking a day like Salmon. Salmon Tuesday.

[B]

Yeah, it's very. Salmon night is very romantic night. Absolutely. Well, as usual, we've covered a lot of ground here. So everybody follow Daniel. Show the marking Millennials and if you get really bored, you can check out. Do that and we will see you later. Daniel. Come on, man, I gotta get back to work. Get out of there. All right, while he's still in there. This is Jay. Check out my podcast do this, not that for marketers. Each week we share really quick tips on stuff that can improve your marketing and hope you give it a try. Oh, here's Daniel.

[A]

He's finally out back from my bathroom break. This is Daniel. Go follow the Market Millennials podcast, but also tune into the series. It's once a week, the bathroom break. We talk about marketing tips that we just spew out. And it could be anything from email subject line to any marketing tips in the world. We'll talk about it. Just give us a shout on LinkedIn and tell us what you want to hear. Peace out.

[B]

Later.