SPECIAL SERIES ===> Should You Fire Clients?👋<=== | BATHROOM Break #40 (COLLAB: The Marketing Millennials + Do This, Not That)

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Should You Fire Clients?" | Bathroom Break #40

Presented By Marigold Release Date: February 3, 2025

In episode #40 of the "Bathroom Break" series, hosted by Jay Schwedelson of the "Do This, NOT That!" podcast in collaboration with Daniel Murray from the "Marketing Millennials," the hosts delve into the critical topic of client management in marketing services businesses. Titled "Should You Fire Clients?," this episode offers valuable insights into identifying when a client relationship becomes untenable and strategies for effectively parting ways without jeopardizing business growth or team morale.

---

1. Introduction to the Conversation

The episode opens with a light-hearted discussion about the upcoming Super Bowl, serving as a segue into the main topic. While the initial minutes ([00:01] - [01:51]) touch upon personal experiences and preferences regarding football, the conversation swiftly pivots to the core subject: managing client relationships.

---

2. Identifying Problematic Clients

Daniel Murray initiates the discussion by highlighting a common dilemma in service-based businesses: balancing client acquisition with client satisfaction. He states:

"Usually it's only 5% or 10% of clients that are really annoying... if you don't fire them, you're spending 10x more time on this one client where you could be going out to get two better clients in that person's place."
— Daniel Murray [03:15]

This emphasizes that a small percentage of difficult clients can disproportionately consume resources and hinder overall business efficiency.

---

3. The Impact of Poor Client Management

Jay Schwedelson shares his personal journey of struggling with client relationships, attributing the challenges to inadequate management and unrealistic expectations set during the onboarding process. He reflects:

"We were doing a very bad job of management, of expectations. We were kind of selling almost the impossible."
— Jay Schwedelson [04:11]

Jay underscores the importance of clear communication and setting achievable goals to prevent client dissatisfaction and frustration.

---

4. Implementing Effective Strategies to Manage Clients

Both hosts discuss actionable strategies to mitigate the issues arising from problematic clients:

• Raising Minimums and Pricing: By increasing the minimum service rates, businesses can naturally filter out less committed or overly demanding clients. Daniel adds:

  "Pricing is the best filter for that. Once you fire a client, raise your rates..."
  — Daniel Murray [09:07]

• Setting Clear Expectations in Contracts: Establishing boundaries through detailed contracts helps manage client expectations and reduces the likelihood of scope creep. Daniel emphasizes:

  "If you don't set expectations up front and have things in your contract that say, let's say you get X number of revisions..."
  — Daniel Murray [05:18]

• Referring to Trusted Vendors: Instead of severing ties abruptly, referring clients to other reputable vendors fosters goodwill and maintains professional relationships. Jay mentions:

  "We have a list of vendors that we refer to... the good part is when you're able to say, hey, these are great companies..."
  — Jay Schwedelson [08:07]

---

5. Preserving Team Morale and Company Culture

Jay highlights the profound impact that client behavior can have on team morale and the overall culture of the organization. He asserts:

"Your team needs to know that you have their back and that you won't stand for that no matter what. Because if not, I think the culture of your organization will deteriorate really fast."
— Jay Schwedelson [06:16]

This statement underscores the necessity of protecting team well-being by not tolerating abusive or disrespectful client interactions.

---

6. The Importance of Niching Down

Focusing on ideal client profiles (ICP) allows businesses to specialize and deliver exceptional value, leading to more sustainable growth. Daniel advises:

"Sometimes you need to niche down to scale up. If you super focus on one thing, it's the business scales way faster..."
— Daniel Murray [07:08]

By targeting specific niches, businesses can streamline their services and attract clients who align more closely with their expertise and values.

---

7. Evaluating the True Cost of Client Relationships

Both hosts agree that the intangible costs—such as stress, time, and energy—often outweigh the financial benefits of retaining a troublesome client. Daniel poignantly states:

"That extra revenue might take your team's freedom away, your time, you're more stressed... Is that extra revenue really worth my time?"
— Daniel Murray [09:07]

This reflection encourages business owners to conduct regular audits of their client base to assess the true value each client brings beyond mere financial transactions.

---

8. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

As the episode nears its end, the hosts circle back to the initial Super Bowl theme, sharing light-hearted opinions on desired halftime performers. However, the overarching message resonates clearly: maintaining healthy client relationships is paramount for sustained business success. By implementing strategic filters, setting clear expectations, and prioritizing team well-being, businesses can foster a more positive and productive work environment.

---

Key Takeaways:

• Identify and Assess: Regularly evaluate your client base to identify which relationships are draining resources without sufficient returns.
• Set Clear Boundaries: Use contracts to establish clear expectations regarding services, revisions, and communication protocols.
• Raise Your Standards: Higher pricing can serve as a natural filter to attract more committed and respectful clients.
• Protect Team Morale: Do not tolerate abusive behavior from clients; your team's well-being is crucial for long-term success.
• Focus on Niches: Specializing in specific client profiles can lead to more efficient operations and better client satisfaction.

By thoughtfully managing client relationships and knowing when to let go, marketing service providers can ensure their businesses remain healthy, scalable, and enjoyable for both themselves and their teams.

Transcript

[Jay Schwedelson]

Welcome to a new special series called the Bathroom break. That extra 10 minutes you either have to listen to marking tips or use the bathroom.

[Daniel Murray]

Or both.

[Jay Schwedelson]

But I don't recommend both. But that's your choice.

This collab is going to be super fun. We have Daniel Murray from the Marketing Millennials and me, Jay Schwedelson from the do this, not that podcast and subjectline.com each episode in the series, we are going to go over quick tips about different marketing topics. And if you want to be in the bathroom, fine, just don't tell us about it. Thanks for checking it out. We are back for another episode of the Bathroom Break. This is Jay Schwedelson from the do this, not that podcast. And I'm here with the great Daniel Murray from the Marketing Millennials podcast. And today we're going to be talking about firing clients. But before we talk about firing clients, we got a big football game coming up. The super bowl is coming up, and for those of you who don't know, Daniel was a Division 1 football player. University of Cincinnati and San Diego. University of San Diego. Do I have that right? I think I have that right.

[Daniel Murray]

You got it right.

[Jay Schwedelson]

And so I got a question for you. When the Super Bowl's coming up, are you like, oh, wow, I love football. I'm all hyped. And you like planning it out for, like weeks and you can't wait to go and eat nachos and analyze football. Or could you care less?

[Daniel Murray]

As a marketer, I think it's a fun time. As a football fan, it's not a fun time.

[Jay Schwedelson]

Why?

[Daniel Murray]

I just think NFL has got two entertainment eyes, if that's even a word. But it's so much slower. I like college football more. There's more things going on. There's more. I rather watch college football than NFL, but I do like it as a marketer's Super Bowl. Of them, the most creative marketers trying to put out the best content. What about you?

[Jay Schwedelson]

Well, I don't want. I'm very disappointed with both the Chiefs and the Eagles. I can care less. I wish it was new teams. So the whole thing sucks. My biggest thing with super bowl is we get invited to, like, so and so's house for a Super bowl party or whatever. And I absolutely don't want to go because I wind up sitting next to an idiot who wants to tell me all the stats that they've memorized heading into that person's house. And I just don't care. And I want to watch the commercials. I can't watch the commercials. I only know one song by Kendrick Lamar and he's the halftime performer. So the whole thing is a hot mess for me.

[Daniel Murray]

Jay just low key, just told everybody how popular he is that he gets invited to all these parties. But yes, it's tough going to those parties because you either can't hear anything or that's just if you really want good food, go to the parties. If you don't want to watch anything about the game, you go to a party.

[Jay Schwedelson]

Well, along those lines. So I'm firing whoever's inviting me to a party, so that way I'll fire them as friends. But speaking of firing them as friends, also about firing clients. We both have marketing services businesses, right? And there are some clients that we both have that we we've had for years. We love working with them. It's great. But what about firing clients? Have do you fire clients or do you just put up with nonsense like when do you know it's the right time to say goodbye to a client?

[Daniel Murray]

Especially in the service business, if the time value and the time suck for all the communication doesn't equal the same amount because the usually it's only 5% or 10% of clients that are really annoying and we do have standards for clients, but the 10% that it's usually people who don't pay a lot and then they ask for a lot more and they're annoying. So what I figured out is that if you don't fire them, you're spending 10x more time on this one client where you could be going out to get two better clients in that person's place. So I hated for the time drain, the time suck, the also the stress is not worth it. Obviously if you're just getting started, you might have to deal with that client for a little bit until you scale up. But I think once the time to value doesn't equal, then it's time to get rid of them.

[Jay Schwedelson]

Yeah, I totally agree. And what I found in my business was years ago we were wanting to fire more clients a lot. And I took a step back and I said, well, is there something we're doing wrong? And I realized we were doing a very bad job of management, of expectations. We were kind of selling almost the impossible. Like all these amazing things are going to happen if you work with us, right? And then out of the gate it, you know, might take some time for all those amazing things to happen. And the clients were onboarding and it wasn't going great and they were being super annoying and just poking at us and all this stuff. And we were saying, get rid of you, get rid of you, get rid of you. And really the problem was more how we were onboarding people and what we were telling them. And so we changed that. We were more upfront about it, which was great. The other thing we did was we raised our minimums because to your point, there's I think, a direct correlation between how vocal and annoying a client might be and how little they spend because they, you know, they're watching every single penny and they're nervous and they're whatever. And it just drives me bananas. So we upped our minimums and that helped a lot too.

[Daniel Murray]

I think also going back to what you said, one of the best advices that I got when I was just working as a head of marketing ops somewhere is my boss told me because I would get things done really fast and people started expecting that as you teach people how to treat you. So I think if you don't set expectations up front and have things in your contract that say, let's say you get X number of revisions you have, here's the scope is clear. I think changing what you said up front, like you said, it has to be put in your contracts that you, you only get this much time, this many meetings, this many revisions, this many X. Cause that's when you screw yourself. And that's exactly. If you don't do that, you start teaching people that it's okay to reach out on the weekends, it's okay to reach out doing slack at all hours. It's okay to bug, treat your employees good to bad. You have to set that expectation that that's not okay. This is how we run our agents. Yeah.

[Jay Schwedelson]

And you know, you bring up an important point and I don't care how big the client is in my organization could be our biggest client. If they treat the team rudely, like they are inappropriate, you know, cursing at them or doing something really over the top, whatever, that's, that's a non starter from, that's goodbye. Don't care who you are for true reasons. Number one, I don't want to work with people like that. But most importantly, your team needs to know that you have their back and that you won't, you won't stand for that no matter what. Because if not, I think the culture of your organization will deteriorate really fast. That if you're, if people on the team feel that something like that is allowable, then they don't want to be a part of that. And that's the fastest way to crush culture in a business is for people to not feel supported. At least that's what we see.

[Daniel Murray]

It's also in every business is that if you try to sell to everybody, it starts becoming a problem. So going back and saying, look at your clients right now, what are my dream clients? What do they do? What are the characteristics? And having that in upfront process and knowing these are your dream clients. What happened to me a lot of the time is I just took on, oh, they slightly are in our ICP or they slightly we could do this. And then we realized it was harder work because we're not as good in that industry, or it was way more time because it took longer to write for that person. Sometimes you need to niche down to scale up. And I realized, like if you super focused on one thing, it's the business scales way faster than if you try to get more squeezed from all these different people that are fringe ICP or even not even in your ideal customer.

[Jay Schwedelson]

Yeah. And it's not even a matter of like annoying clients or people that you want to fire in that regard. It's just not a fit. And that's fine. And one of the things that we do which has been really, really helpful is we have a list of vendors that we refer to. Not people that we get, you know, any type of like referral fee, but different. Different people that we refer to in other businesses for where we get asked where people think we do something that we actually don't do. Like we don't do SEO, for example. Right. But we get hit up about doing SEO all the time. And there are certain companies that we refer to because we just don't do that. And the good part about that is when you're able to say, hey, these are great company, we know them, work with them, whatever. That person at that company then becomes a valuable part of your network. They appreciate the fact you refer them to somebody you know, and then they'll connect you with somebody. So creating a list of kind of companies and people that you can refer in each of the different buckets that are most requested of you, that you don't do can turn into a real valuable thing for your overall business.

[Daniel Murray]

And one last point I'll make is at a certain point in a business, that extra revenue is not worth that client. And that's something you have to just take a hit on. That extra revenue might take your team's freedom, your freedom away, your time, you're more stressful, and you have to do an audit to yourself. Is that extra revenue really worth my time? Energy and time suck. And usually when you look back and you fire that client, you figure out they weren't worth our time, they weren't with our energy, they weren't worth anything. So I think, and one point I want to just double down is I think pricing is the best filter for that. I think once you fire a client, raise your rates, because usually at the start you have these lower rates and then you start more as demand goes. You have to raise rates to make that a better filter for yourself. So.

[Jay Schwedelson]

All right, before you wrap up here, I'm just curious if you were playing the super bowl and you could bring any, you know, musical talent to do the halftime show? Anybody? I want to know who Daniel Murray is bringing to the super bowl to be the halftime show performer.

[Daniel Murray]

So really good question. I'm going to go with it because I just saw the movie complete unknown. I think, like, Bob Dylan to do it because he's been out of it for a while and like, nobody knows. I think they'll be like, oh, he's coming. It's this mysterious factor he hasn't played for a while. That's a cop out answer, I would say. But think. I mean, everybody, what's your answer to that? Or the Cranberries?

[Jay Schwedelson]

Oh, love the cranberries. But Dolores O'Riordan passed away sadly, so they can't. She's not around anymore. I love the Cranberries.

[Daniel Murray]

The Cranberries would have been great.

[Jay Schwedelson]

Well, this year they have Kendrick Lamar. I think it would have been really cool if they also had Drake because they have beef and like, they could have done their diss tracks live. And even that would have been like, something like that would be cool because like I said to my mom, hey, do you know Kendrick Lamar? You know, he's doing the halftime show. And I could have said, do you know any. Any other human? She's like, I have no idea what you just said. I don't know what a Kendrick Lamar sings, does whatever. So I think you need something that like, resonates with a massive audience. Bob Dylan would be good, but I don't actually think he has the ability to do a 15 minute performance. No shade on him. I just feel like, you know, he's checked out a little bit. What. What the hell do I know?

[Daniel Murray]

I just think just like the beef online, it's just. This is your one last time to see Bob Dylan. Yeah, I think that'd be. There's something. How you market it would be the. Yeah, because everybody would be like I never saw Bob Dylan before. Just like that would be seeing the Beatles one more time last.

[Jay Schwedelson]

I get Paul McCartney, come back and do it. Get Taylor Swift to do it this year. That would be like epic.

[Daniel Murray]

That's what I was gonna say is my cop out answer, but I wasn't gonna go there.

[Jay Schwedelson]

All right, well, listen, hope everybody doesn't go off and just fire all their clients after this episode. That would be terrible. Hang in there and listen. Go follow the marking. Millennial show. Fantastic. Daniel crushes it. And we'll see at the next one. Daniel, come on, man. I got to get back to work. Get out of there. All right, while he's still in there. This is Jay. Check out my podcast, do this, not that, for marketers. Each week we share really quick tips on stuff that can improve your marketing and hope you give it a try. Oh, here's Daniel. He's finally out.

Back from my bathroom break. This is Daniel. Go follow the market. Millennial podcast, but also too tune into this series. It's once a week, the Bathroom Break. We talk about marketing tips that we just spew out. And it could be anything from email subject line to any marketing tips in the world. We'll talk about it. Just give us a shout on LinkedIn and tell us what you want to hear.

[Daniel Murray]

Peace out.

[Jay Schwedelson]

Later.