Podcast Summary: "Why Your Listicles Are Failing 🛑 (And How to Fix Them)"

BATHROOM Break #97, Special Collaboration with The Marketing Millennials
Podcast: Do This, NOT That: Marketing Tips with Jay Schwedelson
Date: March 2, 2026
Hosts: Daniel Murray (The Marketing Millennials), Jay Schwedelson (Do This, NOT That, Subjectline.com)

Episode Overview

In this lively and fast-paced Bathroom Break episode, Daniel Murray and Jay Schwedelson team up to dissect why traditional listicles aren’t delivering results—and share tactical, data-driven tweaks to turn them into high-performing marketing content. They exchange rapid-fire tips, personal stories, and surprising findings about audience psychology, what AI really favors in content formatting, and how minor changes to newsletters and listicles can yield outsized rewards. The pair keep the energy fun (complete with food poisoning sidebars), but never stray too far from actionable marketing advice.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Food Poisoning Icebreaker & Segue

• The episode kicks off with Daniel asking Jay why he’s so prone to food poisoning, segueing into a personal story involving questionable takeout fish and the unforeseen consequences of food risk aversion.
  • Notable Quote (Daniel):

    “When Ari was pregnant… we ordered salmon from a Thai place. And why would you order salmon from a Thai place?” ([01:46])

  • Sets the tone for the episode’s blend of humor and marketing wisdom.

2. Listicles: Why “Best” Beats “The Most” or “Top 9”

• Jay’s Main Insight:
  The listicle format is evolving. Rather than generic “7 things you need to know”-style headlines, value-anchored, ranked listicles—like “the number one solution” or “top three strategies”—drive much better performance both with AI search and email engagement.
  • Why? AI search platforms and consumer attention currently reward specificity and clear hierarchy/significance.
  • Practical Application:
    • Update your subject lines and blog titles to feature “best,” “number one,” or “top three.”
  • Notable Quote (Jay):

    “Instead of saying the seven whatevers… it’s saying the top three, the number one, or the best whatever... That is actually what’s pulling exponentially higher on the AI platforms. And that’s actually what’s working better in email.” ([03:11])

  • Timestamp: 03:11–04:17

3. Leveraging AI to Source Content – Strategic Curating

• Daniel’s Nuanced AI Advice:
  Instead of letting AI write your article, leverage AI (Perplexity, Claude, ChatGPT) to find what resources those models are citing, include and reference those in your own content. This increases your own authority and discoverability, as you’re helping curate the internet for search engines and AI, not just parroting information.
  • Actionable Tip:
    • Research with AI, extract sources it references, and integrate those into your writing as credible links, add your perspective for differentiation.
  • Notable Quote (Daniel):

    “Go on like Perplexity and Claude and ChatGPT, look at what is pulled into the resources, and use those resources in your article… you become a source of what these AI models want to see.” ([04:18])

  • Timestamp: 04:18–05:32

4. Newsletter Subject Line Advice: Edition Numbers Are Back

• Jay’s Data-Driven Discovery:
  Contrary to his previous advice, including the newsletter edition number (in brackets) at the start of the subject line dramatically increased open rates (+20%).
  • Why? Readers like to reference specific editions, and it gives a sense of sequence and novelty.
  • Key Test Result:
    • “[Scoop #12] Subject Line” outperformed just “Subject Line.”
  • Jay’s Reflection:

    “…the one where we put it in brackets, the open rate is about 20% higher… I used to tell people to avoid like the plague. And now… it’s working incredibly well.” ([05:32])

  • Daniel’s Analysis:
    References and chronology matter for repeat engagement, especially when content is topical or serialized.
  • Timestamp: 05:32–07:31

5. Audience Psychology: The Power of Referencing and Recall

• The benefit of numbered editions: readers want to reference past content, especially for news or serialized educational emails. It creates a system by which high-value information is more easily tracked and recallable by subscribers.

Memorable Moments & Fun Quotes

• Daniel (on food poisoning recalls):

  “Three times a week I get food recall, text messages or email from Ari's dad… For today, I got a cottage cheese recall and me and Ari did not eat cottage cheese, but I got an email that says, cottage cheese been recalled.” ([07:52])

• Jay (on saving bad fish):

  “Saving it is never something I would ever recommend, but maybe saving this episode is worth saving. What a transition.” ([02:46])

• Jay (signing off):

  “Put stinky fish in your fridge. Do it. Why not?”

• Daniel:

  “Back from my bathroom break… we talk about marketing tips that we just spew out. And it could be anything from email, subject line to any marketing tips in the world.” ([09:22])

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00–01:46 — Food poisoning banter and funny backstory
• 02:46–04:18 — Listicle evolution: “Best/top” outperforms “seven ways”
• 04:18–05:32 — How to use AI as a research/citation tool, not just for writing
• 05:32–07:31 — Newsletter edition numbers in subject lines: Old advice, new results
• 07:31–08:49 — Food safety paranoia and audience risk aversion
• 08:49–End — Sign-offs, repeated encouragement to try and test these techniques

Actionable Takeaways

• Update your listicle headlines: Focus on “Best,” “Top 3,” or “Number One” over generic numbered lists; this boosts AI visibility and audience engagement.
• Use AI for resource curation, not just text generation: Reference real sources AI pulls to increase your authority and ranking.
• Test adding edition numbers to e-newsletter subject lines: Use brackets and a consistent format; track open rates for improved performance.
• Understand human psychology: Recall and referencing matter—use sequence and hierarchy in your content to aid your audience.

Final Tone

Conversational, quick-witted, and pragmatic—Jay and Daniel mix hard data with humor, demonstrating the power of retesting old assumptions and making small tweaks for big returns. If you’re in marketing, don’t sleep on these “small nuances that are radical game changers right now.”