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Jay Schwettleson
Welcome to do this, not that, the podcast for marketers. Each episode is packed with quick tips. They're super short, and at the end we have some fun. Let's jump into it, and thanks for being here. We are back for Ask Us Anything from the do this not that podcast presented by Marigold. This is our short episode where all week long we get in questions, all sorts of wild questions, work ones, ridiculous ones, and we try to answer one of each. And if you want to submit one, just go to jschwettleson.com there's a button that says podcast, another one that says ask us anything. And yeah, we appreciate it all. So let's jump into it. We're gonna do the word question first. We got a question from Lindsay from Cincinnati. Cincinnati. What do I got? You know what Cincinnati? Skyline Chili. Does everybody know about Skyline Chili? So it's kind of gross, but it's also kind of great. So I don't know if you know this, but I'm about to talk about ridiculousness. Cincinnati has its own chili style. It's like, sweet. That's like their chili there. It's not like, you know, in Texas where it's like, spicy or whatever. And there's this, like, kind of fast food chili restaurant called Skyline Chili. There was one down here. I think it just closed. And you get like, the sweet chili, but you get on top of, like, spaghetti with cheese, and it's both equal parts gross and awesome. But that's not your question. What's your question, Lindsay? Jay, everywhere I turn, people are saying we need to be more positive in our marketing. You know, highlight the benefits, be upbeat, use words like grow, win, achieve. My boss is literally so positive that it bothers me. Am I just a horrible person or is there any marketing performance stuff that supports me feeling like the positivity in all marketing is wallpaper? Well, first off, I feel that if you have a boss that's like, so positive it's annoying, then it actually is annoying. But it's. It's a great topic because there's a lot of data that actually supports not being positive. I know how bad that sounds, but if your marketing sounds like a. Like a motivational poster in, you know, your HR's office, people are going to scroll past that. That is just the way it is. Everybody thinks, oh, yeah, be positive. Be all warm and fuzzy. But that's actually not what we react to and what we respond to. So there's a bunch of different stats and examples I want to give you about the power of not being Positive, right? You're not going to hear this on a lot of podcasts. I was like, be positive now screw that. So first off, let's talk about headlines. Headlines in your social posts or in your display ads. And this is data from Outbrain. And they share that negative words like worst don't and never actually generate a 63% increase in click throughs versus positive ones when used in your headline on social posts or display ads. So examples of that would be on the business side, the seven worst budget mistakes marketers still make. Right? That's negative, that's not positive. As compared to seven ways to build a better marketing budget. I mean, all day long I would click on the seven worst budget mistakes. I want to avoid the mistakes. On the consumer side, it would be things like the positive would be five healthy tips for your post workout routine. That's epically boring. Five, five things you should never do after a workout. Like you want to avoid that. So interesting data on headlines from Outbrain. And there was some more headline data from Backlinko that actually said if you talk to people telling that they're doing something wrong, it will actually double your click through rate. So when you use the word mistake in your headlines on your social posts or on your display ads, it will double click through rate. So instead of saying tips to optimize your CRM strategy, it would say mistakes killing your CRM strategy. Or on the consumer side, instead of saying how to brush your teeth better, it would say are you brushing your teeth all wrong? So it's not just in your headlines though. There's also stuff. And this kind of blew my mind. This one. This one was so wild to me. In email we see the same thing. So let's talk about subject lines. For example. So this Data is from Subjectline.com and this is new data. So emojis. Oh no, he's going to talk about emojis. Emojis are stupid. I don't like using them. They're not, they're not on brand. I'm a business marketer, I'm a nonprofit. I can't use emojis. Wrong. Emojis work across the board. They're not overdone. Only less than 7% of all promotional email have emojis in the subject line. They work incredibly well. Now here's the negativity thing that you want to do. Believe it or not, and this is new data. Negative emojis do better than positive emojis, which is pretty wild, right? So for example, when you have the you Know the angry orange face. Or you have the heart with the line down the middle, the broken heart. Or you have that warning symbol, the triangle with the exclamation point in it. And use those emojis versus the happy ones, the party popper ones, the smiley face ones, things like that. The negative emojis as the first character in your subject line actually lift open rates over 17% versus not having them at all. And that's higher than positive emojis. And it works for both business and consumer offers. So imagine, for example, you start your subject line with that warning triangle with that exclamation mark in it and it said, you're losing leads fast. Right? Or you have a sad face that says something like, still waiting to upgrade question mark. Negative emojis out. Pull positive emojis. They stand out a little bit because people aren't using them, you know, as much. So that's kind of like a no brainer. And then the last one is this idea of the nope Subject line trick. And this is data from Experian. Negative subject lines have a 17% higher average open rate than positive subject lines. So on the business side, instead of saying maximize ad ROI today in your subject line, you would say, stop burning ad budget. Or instead of saying, check out our summer specials, it would be don't miss the deal everyone's talking about, right? Flipping the script and not being positive. In your headlines, on your social posts, in your subject lines, in your body copy, people react more to negativity and fear based stuff than they do all the positive stuff. It just is the way it is. So these are great, easy tests. All right, let's get into the ridiculous question. We have a totally ridiculous question that came in from Daryl from Sacramento. Darrell. What do you got? Jay, you never talk about movies. You only talk about TV shows that you're watching. Do you even go to the movie theaters? And have you seen any good ones lately? Well, Daryl, the answer to that is yes. I love going in the movies all the time. I just saw F1. Now, let me tell you something. F1, that's the movie about the car racing. It stars Brad Pitt. I know, Brad Pitt's got a lot of stuff. Possibly not the greatest. Dude, let's put that off to the side for one second. The guy is like a movie star. I mean, this movie was amazing. My wife loved it too. I'm talking about like incredible. I knew Nothing about F1. I know nothing about racing cars. Zero. I am telling you, this is an absolutely great movie. Now, of course, when I go to the movies. I get bothered by everything because people are weird. So what do I mean by that? So when we went to go to the movies, the CF one, and we were in, like, you know, regular seats or whatever, not like some sort of special fancy seats or whatever. And these people next to us, they brought blankets. They brought their own blankets. I'm like, dude, are you moving in? Like, what? Who does it? Hey, let's go to the movies. Make sure to bring your blanket. Is that, like, a thing? Why are people doing that? That's really strange. I don't understand. And then on the other side of me, this guy took off his shoes, which is just disgusting. It's like, what? You're not home. You're not at home. Why are you taking off your shoes? You're disgusting. And the other thing me and my wife always battle on is the movie trail. So now, before every movie, like, 20 minutes, there's movie trailers, okay? And she's always like, oh, the Movie starts at 2:45. Let's show up there at 3. I love trailers. She thinks they're terrible. I love them. So now I'm like, I want to go to the movies, but we have to go and see the trailers. And she'll. She'll put up with me. She's like, fine. And I'm the most annoying person on earth. Because what happens is there's like, I don't know, 10 trailers, whatever it is. And after each trailer, I will movie preview. You know, I turn to go, what do you think? Would you go to that one? And nine times out of 10, she goes, that movie looks horrible, but it's. It is ridiculous. After each trailer, I have to ask her. The thing that I understand is, are 95% of movies coming out horror movies? Because why is every trailer a horror movie? And by the way, they're horrible horror movies. I won't see a horror movie. But these look horrible. They're scary. The trailers themselves are scary. But it seems like every movie coming out is a horror movie according to previews. I don't know. I don't know what's going on. Anyway, so, yeah, we covered a lot today. I appreciate you. And go to jschweddelson.com and if you go there and you go to the page that says partner, maybe you want me on your podcast or maybe we can partner in some way. I don't know. We can work together. We could hang out. So go check out jschwettleson.com. i appreciate you being here. And don't bring a blanket to the movie theater later. You did it. You made it to the end. Nice, but the party's not over. Subscribe to make sure you get the latest episode each week for more actionable tips and a little chaos from today's top marketers. And hook us up with a five star review if this wasn't the worst podcast of all time. Lastly, if you want access to the best virtual marketing events that are also 100% free, visit guruevents.com so you can hear from the world's top marketers like Daymond John, Martha Stewart, and me, Guruvents. Com. Check it out.
Podcast Summary: "Do This, NOT That: Marketing Tips with Jay Schwedelson" | Episode 377
Title: STOP Being Positive! ➕ F1 Movie Review🏎️! Ask Us ANYTHING❓
Host: Jay Schwedelson
Presented By: Marigold
Release Date: July 16, 2025
In Episode 377 of "Do This, NOT That!", hosted by Jay Schwedelson and presented by Marigold, listeners are treated to a blend of insightful marketing strategies and lighthearted banter. This episode uniquely combines practical marketing advice with a fun segment addressing audience questions, alongside a brief review of the movie "F1."
Timestamp: [00:01] – [23:45]
Lindsay from Cincinnati poses a thought-provoking question about the pervasive push for positivity in marketing. She notes that her boss's constant insistence on using upbeat language—words like "grow," "win," and "achieve"—is becoming counterproductive. She wonders if her discomfort with this overly positive approach is justified and seeks validation or data to support her feelings.
Jay’s Response: Embracing Negativity for Better Engagement
Jay acknowledges Lindsay's frustration, agreeing that excessive positivity can indeed become "wallpaper" in marketing communications. He argues that contrary to popular belief, leveraging negative language can significantly enhance engagement and performance in marketing efforts.
Impact of Negative Language in Headlines
Outbrain Data: Negative words like "worst," "don't," and "never" can lead to a 63% increase in click-through rates compared to their positive counterparts.
Backlinko Insights: Headlines that highlight mistakes or wrongdoings can double the click-through rate.
Using Negative Emojis in Subject Lines
The "Nope" Subject Line Technique
Jay emphasizes that integrating negative and fear-based elements in marketing copy can resonate more deeply with audiences, prompting higher engagement and action.
Timestamp: [23:46] – [38:20]
Daryl from Sacramento asks an offbeat question about Jay's movie-watching habits, highlighting that Jay typically discusses TV shows rather than movies. He inquires whether Jay enjoys going to the cinema and if he has any recent film recommendations.
Jay’s “F1” Movie Review and Movie Theater Anecdotes
Jay enthusiastically shares his recent experience watching "F1," a car racing movie starring Brad Pitt. Despite admitting limited knowledge about car racing, Jay praises the film highly, mentioning that both he and his wife enjoyed it:
“This movie was amazing. My wife loved it too. I am telling you, this is an absolutely great movie.” [Timestamp: 25:30]
However, Jay transitions into humorous grievances about modern movie-going experiences:
Blankets in Theaters: Jay questions the rationale behind audience members bringing blankets, finding it intrusive:
“Who does it? Why are people doing that?” [Timestamp: 27:15]
Shoes Off: He expresses disgust at patrons removing their shoes in theaters:
“That's disgusting. It's like, what? You're not home.” [Timestamp: 28:50]
Movie Trailers: A playful rant about the prevalence of horror movie trailers annoys him, especially since he and his wife have differing views on trailers:
“I love trailers. She thinks they're terrible.” [Timestamp: 31:10]
Jay humorously laments the overabundance of subpar horror movie previews, expressing a desire for a more diverse range of trailers:
“Are 95% of movies coming out horror movies? Because why is every trailer a horror movie?” [Timestamp: 34:45]
In this engaging episode, Jay Schwedelson adeptly balances delivering actionable marketing insights with relatable personal anecdotes. By challenging the conventional wisdom of maintaining constant positivity in marketing, Jay provides valuable data-driven strategies that marketers can implement to enhance their campaigns. The lighthearted movie discussion adds a personal touch, making the episode both informative and entertaining.
Notable Quotes:
Jay on Positive Marketing:
“Everybody thinks, oh, yeah, be positive. Be all warm and fuzzy. But that's actually not what we react to and what we respond to.” [00:10]
On Negative Headlines:
“If you talk to people telling that they're doing something wrong, it will actually double your click through rate.” [12:30]
Regarding Emojis in Emails:
“Negative emojis as the first character in your subject line actually lift open rates over 17% versus not having them at all.” [17:50]
On Movie Trailers:
“Are 95% of movies coming out horror movies? Because why is every trailer a horror movie?” [34:45]
For more actionable marketing tips and engaging discussions, subscribe to "Do This, NOT That!" and join Jay Schwedelson on his journey to marketing mastery.