← Dominican Sisters Open Mic
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- [00:00]
Sister Miriam
What do you love about being a sister or our way of life? There's probably so many things.
- [00:06]
Sister Irenaeus
So many things. But really what it all comes down to is I belong to him. Saint Irenaeus was a student of Saint Polycarp. Saint Polycarp was a student, a disciple of Saint John the Apostle. Sometimes I get down on myself that, like, I'm still a mess. I've still got all of these things in my life that I haven't figure
- [00:30]
Sister Miriam
it out,
- [00:32]
Sister Irenaeus
but I'm his mess.
- [00:49]
Sister Miriam
Hi and welcome to Dominican Sisters open Mic. My name is Sister Miriam and I'm one of the Dominican Sisters of Mary, Mother of the Eucharist. We're based out of Ann Arbor, Michigan. In each week, we're sitting down with our very own sisters and we're talking all things Dominican. And today I'm really excited to have our Sister Irenaeus on our show. And I've asked if she would share a little bit about her patron saint, Saint Irenaeus, as well as the Church Father. So we're looking forward to the conversation and also just getting to know Sister and her story a little bit. Sister, thank you so much for coming.
- [01:28]
Sister Irenaeus
Thanks for having me, Sister. I'm excited to be here.
- [01:30]
Sister Miriam
Sister. I'm excited. I always enjoy every time I'm in conversation with you. And so I've been looking forward to this day and I want to give a little bit of biographical details just for. For people to know a little bit. You entered the Convent 2012, and you're originally from Indiana. You are certified to teach K through 12, so everything up to eighth grade, and then you are certified to teach high school science.
- [02:07]
Sister Irenaeus
Yes.
- [02:08]
Sister Miriam
And it's basically you're certified to teach all the sciences, but you have certain preferences of which science you like to teach.
- [02:15]
Sister Irenaeus
Yes, while I'm. While I'm certified to teach the harder sciences, chemistry, physics. My preference is definitely the life sciences. So right now I'm teaching biology and anatomy at Lainson Catholic High School. And love. Exploring creation and the human body. It's just. It's the best.
- [02:36]
Sister Miriam
Sister. And I'm a science teacher myself. I teach biology. And many times I've just wanted to see you in action with some of the stuff you're doing in your classroom because you're.
- [02:48]
Sister Irenaeus
I feel the same way.
- [02:50]
Sister Miriam
You're so creative about stuff and, and because you have such a love of learning and, and curiosity and wonder about the world that it really comes through when. When I'm talking to you about really any topic. But I can imagine you in the Classroom just getting everyone enthused about what you're teaching that day.
- [03:14]
Sister Irenaeus
There was a day earlier this semester when it had rained a lot overnight and I was walking to school. We're blessed to be able to walk to school. It little over a half mile and there were worms all over the sidewalk. And so I like just started collecting worms as I was walking to school. And I changed my lesson plan on the fly to, to do some investigations with worms. But my students when like, they saw me with like a tray of living worms, they were very confused.
- [03:44]
Sister Miriam
I'm sure that's a great lesson, Sister. Sister, before we get into our main topic of, of the fathers in the church and, and your saint, we want to hear a little bit about your story. People love the stories, so. And I love the stories. But I would like to know, Sister, how God showed you his love in your life. Where were you, for example, in high school in terms of your faith, your faith journey?
- [04:12]
Sister Irenaeus
So in high school I was blessed. My, my parents had been really models of fidelity in terms of especially going to Sunday mass and also a life of service. Uh, but, and I, and I went to youth group while I was in high school. But I would say I had a far greater desire to love the Lord than actually putting it into, into practice in my, in my daily life and in my daily choices. Um, and then also when I was in high school, I grew up, as you said, in Indiana. And most of my friends were faithful Protestants. And by high school, like they had questions for me. I didn't usually. I sometimes knew the answ stumbled through things. But what was there was a desire, but what hadn't yet clicked was really knowing and encountering Jesus as a person. But also St. Catherine of Siena says that upon knowledge follows love. And I just really didn't know that much about the Lord. I didn't know him personally. And so my like little burst of fervor maybe after a retreat or something like that would like pretty quickly die out.
- [05:27]
Sister Miriam
Okay, and were you thinking at the time in high school you were going to get married?
- [05:32]
Sister Irenaeus
Oh, yes.
- [05:33]
Sister Miriam
That was your plan? You're going to get married and you wanted to have children?
- [05:37]
Sister Irenaeus
Yes, that was the norm. That was what I knew. I went to public school. I could see my parents marriage. There was a brief blip on the radar when I went to a retreat and there were some Franciscan sisters, The Sisters of St. Francis of Perpetual Adoration. They were there and they had this little like card that you could fill out and put in a basket. And I like, I Don't know why, but I did fill out that card. But then I like, stashed that card away and didn't think about it for years. That was a very. A very brief passing thought. But a big moment in my life as a whole was when I was in high school. My family and I went on a mission trip to Guatemala.
- [06:26]
Sister Miriam
Oh, wow.
- [06:27]
Sister Irenaeus
And we were standing others like these flat roofs and volcanoes and beautiful place. And I. And I prayed out loud. Which one? I didn't really pray spontaneously or on my own. You know, my. My version of a prayer was a very irregular Our Father, but so I didn't really pray spontaneously at that point. And I definitely, you know, didn't pray out loud. And I was by myself, but the words came out of my mouth of, lord, I want to give my life to you and to the church. And I kind of. As soon as I said that was like. That was weird. I don't know what to do about that.
- [07:02]
Sister Miriam
But.
- [07:03]
Sister Irenaeus
But like, that was like, I guess like a seed that had started to germinate of. You have some. He had something for me and that. It was like I wanted to respond,
- [07:19]
Sister Miriam
what were you thinking in terms of career? Because you went to college after that?
- [07:23]
Sister Irenaeus
Yes.
- [07:24]
Sister Miriam
And what were you studying there?
- [07:27]
Sister Irenaeus
Well, you say that I have such a curiosity about things. This has always been the case where I like way too many things. And settling on a major was really hard. So I first went to college for natural resources and environmental science and then was very restless through college, which was the beginnings of my vocation, but didn't know it. And so changing my major seemed to be the natural choice. So I graduated from Purdue University, but then degree in agricultural communication.
- [07:59]
Sister Miriam
Okay, okay. And I have to say, you just, you know a lot about nature when I'm walking with you, and you can identify the trees and the foliage and interesting facts and it's really great, Sister. I want to download.
- [08:16]
Sister Irenaeus
Sometimes I have to, like, turn off the. The. The. The teacher slash the nerd. We're just having a normal walk. Like, we could. We could just have a. Nor where people don't have to learn things.
- [08:32]
Sister Miriam
That was great, Sister. It's very delightful. So when you were in college, during that time in college, were you continuing to grow in your faith?
- [08:42]
Sister Irenaeus
Yes. So because of the fidelity of my parents, honestly, when I went to college, there was really no question that I would go to Sunday mass. And I got pretty quickly involved at St. Thomas Aquinas, which is the Newman center, the Catholic center on campus. And there was always something to do it was a very light. It was and is a very lively place. And so I got involved, I think, really in a lot of ways, because it was a social place. You know, like I had kind of an immediate built in group of friends, which every college student is looking for. And so I started getting more involved, not just going to Sunday mass, but the Wednesday 9pm Mass and then getting involved in a Bible study. But at that point, it was. My faith was growing. I was being inspired by other young people, really on fire for the face, seeing what that looked like to live an integrated and a whole life for the first time. Not this is my church life and this is my everywhere else life, but it was still pretty social. It was when I was in college, I took a semester off for an internship where I was traveling around the country and staying in a lot of hotel rooms by myself. And I came to the conclusion that you can only watch so much tv. And so I started using that time to pray. And really, for the first time in my life, building a prayer life of silence with the Lord, of not just speaking, but also giving him a chance to speak in return, to listen for his voice. And that was. That was the. I would say, not just the seed germinating, but like the beginnings of the blossom of my vocation and of my life with Him.
- [10:39]
Sister Miriam
You know, what's kind of interesting about that is you are very social, and the social aspect caught you at college. But then it was kind of more in the solitude and quiet that our Lord showed Himself more to you in a deeper way or that you were able to really just turn to Him.
- [11:00]
Sister Irenaeus
And honestly, a lot about my vocation has kind of been that same way that my immediate draw specifically to our community was just seeing the joy the sisters had. The community life seemed to fit. And of course, at that point I was discerning because I wanted to give my life to the Lord. But it was some of the more external things that were very attractive. But then the Lord, like, used time to just draw me closer to Himself. I remember we have retreat Sundays once a month, and it's a day of adoration and silence and no technology. The Lord is so good.
- [11:39]
Sister Miriam
We all count down to retreat Sunday.
- [11:42]
Sister Irenaeus
Yes, it's usually the third Sunday of the month. And when it happened, it has to be a week later. Like, you're like, oh, I am ready for my retreat Sunday. But the very first retreat Sunday is like, I honestly, like, didn't know what to do with that much silence because, you know, like, I'm just always kind of looking for the next things, the new things, the things to do.
- [12:03]
Sister Miriam
Yeah.
- [12:04]
Sister Irenaeus
And to just have a whole silent day was really radical to me. And now, now I love it. I, I can't imagine my, my months without a routine Sunday. Sometimes I feel like we could have another one.
- [12:21]
Sister Miriam
So sister, how did you come across the sisters? You were, you were in college, so you did this internship away from college for a bit, but, but you're back at college, you're continuing to grow in your faith. How did you find our sisters?
- [12:34]
Sister Irenaeus
Well, so my, actually my first encounter with our sisters was when I was a freshman in college and at that point still kind of struggling with like living, living the Christian life, very distracted by other things. But in January of my freshman year of college, some friends were like, hey, do you want to go on a retreat with some sisters in Ann Arbor? And I love a good road trip. And so I said, and so I ended up on one of our vocation discernment retreats, which was eye opening on so many levels both that women still entered religious life. I hadn't really had very many encounters at all with, with religious. But also it was a time for me that, where the sacraments really broken, especially the sacrament of confession.
- [13:25]
Sister Miriam
Ooh, okay.
- [13:26]
Sister Irenaeus
So that was really powerful.
- [13:27]
Sister Miriam
Yes.
- [13:28]
Sister Irenaeus
But then, so then that, but I kind of like filed that away like, like, like that card, like that prayer on the top of the roof in Guatemala. I sort of filed it away as like that was a cool one time event. But then when I got back and I'm growing in my prayer life, I'm spending more time at the church, I'm falling in love with the Lord and the Lord really is wooing me and drawing my heart. Then what would happen is I would keep thinking like, I wonder, I wonder how the sisters celebrate Christmas. I wonder like what the sisters do in the summertime. And just couldn't get our, especially like our community out of my head. So then I had come back on retreat when I was a junior and at that point was pretty sure that I was called to religious life. And it was in the moment of walking to our Mother House chapel, like so beautiful. And what had been growing in my heart was a desire for heaven. And in heaven is to see God face to face. That's what we're all made for. That's where like the full, the fullness of our, of our human experience and our human existence is to see God face to face. And it was in walking into our Mother House chapel and realizing that adoration in particular is the closest thing that we can have to heaven on this earth, that to adore the Lord every day in the Mother House chapel or another convent of our community is the closest thing that I have for heaven until the Lord calls me home.
- [15:06]
Sister Miriam
So you felt in that moment, this is where I'm meant to be?
- [15:10]
Sister Irenaeus
Yes. And I think I told Sister Joseph Andrew, the vocation director, I was like, I'm more sure than I want to be that I'm. That I've called to religious life and that it's here. So then I entered it when I graduated from college.
- [15:27]
Sister Miriam
Okay. So, Sister, you've been living the religious life now for a bit, and I'm curious. What do you love about it? What do you love about being a sister or our way of life? There's probably so many things.
- [15:41]
Sister Irenaeus
So many things. But really, what it all comes down to, as I belong to him, that that's the longing of every human heart, is to be loved and chosen. And that I have that. That no matter how maybe rough the day is with my students or how many things I'm thinking about or stressed about, that. That I belong to him and that he is so faithful that I can walk into our convent and he is there waiting for me. And he's with me also when I'm teaching. He's with me at every moment of my day. But then also that I belong to him with my sisters, that I'm not doing this alone. That's another gift.
- [16:33]
Sister Miriam
That's beautiful, Sister. And I've had a couple opportunities. We have never taught together or really lived together, but I know I enjoyed that. We spent a summer studying a bit at Notre Dame.
- [16:47]
Sister Irenaeus
That was.
- [16:48]
Sister Miriam
So that was. We had a road trip there and then.
- [16:51]
Sister Irenaeus
Road trip.
- [16:52]
Sister Miriam
We were able to take some wonderful classes on faith and science and how those two. Two aspects support each other and help us really towards the faith. But that was. That was a great series of classes, and it was fun to spend that time with you.
- [17:09]
Sister Irenaeus
It was. I remember on the way back home that I think it was like you. I was. I was driving. You might have been in the passenger side. Somebody else. One of the other sisters was in the backseat. And we just had, like, ideas going right and left. And one of the sisters was just writing as fast as she could.
- [17:26]
Sister Miriam
We were brainstorming.
- [17:27]
Sister Irenaeus
We're gonna get this. We're gonna get this into a. Into a document as soon as we get home of these great ideas. And some of them, I. For teaching.
- [17:33]
Sister Miriam
Right. It was. It was how to incorporate Catholic worldview into Science.
- [17:39]
Sister Irenaeus
Yes. And human dignity. And like, how do you connect human dignity even within science classes?
- [17:44]
Sister Miriam
Yes. Yeah, that was, that was a fun summer, sister. Now getting to your name. Okay. And I do apologize because I think I, I emailed you on occasion about this podcast and when it was going to happen in logistics and I believe I might have spelled your name a few different ways. And I'm seeing even on, even on my planning document right here, there's a number of different versions going on. Saint Irenaeus, I mean, how did you get the saint?
- [18:21]
Sister Irenaeus
Well, he found me is really the most important part. So I went to public school and when, even from when I was in high school, my classmates were asking me questions about the faith, but didn't really have time to like dive into those answers. Didn't really have a resource that I felt like a person that I had in my life that I could like really get those answers from. When I was in college and falling in love with the Lord, falling back in love with the faith, I started to do a little bit more reading and it would a lot of times refer questions about like Mary or the Eucharist. It would reference like the Church Fathers, the Fathers of the Church. And I thought to myself, sounds like they've got some great things to say. But I'm like, I'm busy, I'm a student. So don't really, don't really look any further in that. Well, so then when I was a postulant the first year in the convent, I those first few weeks, you don't really know what you're supposed to be doing because some of your free time. Yeah.
- [19:34]
Sister Miriam
You're learning.
- [19:35]
Sister Irenaeus
And now like now I know all the things that I can fit into like a one hour period of what of, you know, things that need to be done. But I, you know, didn't really know what I was supposed to be doing. So I found my way to the library and, and found a book on the Fathers of the Church by Mike Aquilina. And in reading that book, I could just see how they were evangelizing a people who didn't have any background for Christ about who Christ was, especially Irenaeus, Ignatius of Antioch Polycarp, like the earliest Fathers of the Church.
- [20:17]
Sister Miriam
What is the time frame on that, Sister? Like this is an early, early Saint
- [20:22]
Sister Irenaeus
Irenaeus dies somewhere around the year 200, 202 as a martyr. And so he had been. This is kind of fun. St. Irenaeus was a student of St. Polycarp. Saint Polycarp was a student, a disciple of St. John the Apostle. And so Irenaeus, in his writings is basically, he coins the term apostolic succession from the apostle, how it's been passed down from the apostles. And that's what he uses as his authority.
- [21:00]
Sister Miriam
And I think some of our listeners might be surprised to learn that we have some of these writings from what we call the early Church Fathers, these early Christians who learned in a fairly direct line from the apostles themselves.
- [21:17]
Sister Irenaeus
Yes, Ignatius of Antioch, I think it's 107 that he dies and he's. He's referencing the Eucharist. He's saying the things that we hear from St. Paul, but also is preaching with this authority and this enthusiasm, in this vigor. The fathers of the Church as a whole are collectively. There's some debate on who's the last father of the Church, but it's roughly, you could say, like the first 800 years of the Church. But then there's kind of groups of them. There's these early Church fathers, apostolic or ante Nicene, before Nicaea, where the Crete comes from. Then there's a lot more in that three hundreds, four hundreds time period. And then there's some in the years coming afterwards. Largely they were bishops, but there were also like monks and fathers of like priest in the desert. Usually not on the list of the church fathers, but there were also women saints like Saint Macrina, who also, like, contributed to our understanding. And basically, in the gospels, Jesus says some amazing and fabulous things. Everything that he says is amazing.
- [22:45]
Sister Miriam
Like he says some mic drop things.
- [22:47]
Sister Irenaeus
Yes.
- [22:47]
Sister Miriam
And then sermon on the map.
- [22:49]
Sister Irenaeus
Exactly. Or he's like talking of Philip is like, lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us. And Jesus is like, have you been with me so long, Philip? Like, I. And that if you have seen me, you have seen the Father, which is an astounding statement. But the how seeing Jesus means seeing the Father or what? Like what? Like kind of to be able to pull that apart, to understand it. Jesus didn't say those things.
- [23:20]
Sister Miriam
He didn't flesh it all out there in the scripture.
- [23:23]
Sister Irenaeus
I actually love in the Chosen.
- [23:26]
Sister Miriam
Oh, yes.
- [23:26]
Sister Irenaeus
The series that the sisters very much enjoy. But there are that amazement, confusion is so clear of like Jesus saying the things. The Sermon on the Mount and the Apostles just have this look of does he really mean that? And the answer is yes.
- [23:51]
Sister Miriam
And sometimes there's these side conversations where they're debating it out and we gotta write this stuff down.
- [23:56]
Sister Irenaeus
Well, in this kind of. This idea of this side conversation of debating it out is what happened in the Centuries after Christ. So he says, if you've seen me, you've seen the Father, that I and the Father are one. But what does that mean? Exactly. And so a lot of the discussion in the early Church, the development of doctrine is how we would refer to it, is trying to understand the Gospels philosophically, like who? That. That Jesus is truly God and truly man. That. That took a couple hundred years to really iron out. And what is. Like, what does that mean? What are the distinctions?
- [24:41]
Sister Miriam
Because. Because some people would be like, well, he's half man and half God. And others would be like, no, he's. He's fully man and he's fully God.
- [24:51]
Sister Irenaeus
And well, the biggest question of the early church was that is he really actually God? The Father's, like, highest creature. And the answer to that is no, that he is God Himself, one in nature.
- [25:05]
Sister Miriam
Consubstantial.
- [25:06]
Sister Irenaeus
Consubstantial. That fun word that we say in the Creed.
- [25:10]
Sister Miriam
It's a great word. Yes. So the writings of the fathers of the Church, they're not. We don't consider them as revealed as the way scriptures or sacred scriptures are revealed to us. But you described it as a development or sort of like a flushing out of doctrine.
- [25:31]
Sister Irenaeus
Yes. It can't ever be in contradiction to the revelation from the. In the. In the Gospels and the Scriptures in their entirety. But sometimes we can come to understand things in a deeper way or such in our modern world. We apply the things that are spoken about in the Scriptures and all of these hundreds and hundreds of years of tradition and teaching to our modern world and new applications like bioethics.
- [26:05]
Sister Miriam
Right? Yes. AI.
- [26:08]
Sister Irenaeus
Yes. So Pope Leo, his new encyclical on AI. Of course, Jesus did not tell us anything about AI, but he did tell us about the human person. He did tell us about the Father's love and the unique Psalm 139. I informed you in your mother's womb that each person is unrepeatable. And that's something that a machine can't replace.
- [26:38]
Sister Miriam
Sister, it's pretty impressive to me that this is what you're reading in your postulate year. I don't think I was. I wasn't quite at that level in my reading material.
- [26:51]
Sister Irenaeus
Well, I don't know if I really was actually at that level either, but there was a curiosity and so I. So I started there and I've come to reread the Father through the Church so many times, Irenaeus and others, and understood more as the years have gone on.
- [27:09]
Sister Miriam
Did you know that the Sisters of Mary offer more than just this podcast. Our apostolate called openlight Media, offers a wide variety of resources for faith formation, virtue education and catechesis development. One of the programs that we're really excited to be able to offer is called Raised in Grace. It's the only Catholic social emotional learning program that explicitly integrates faith with modern neuroscience, raising graces for both adults and children. And it invites them to participate in their own neurodevelopment with strategies based on cutting edge neuroscience. To learn more about race and grace and Open Light media, please visit openlightmedia.com or click the link on this description where faith meets learning. You'll find us at Open Light Media. So now Saint Irenaeus, he made his own contributions in, in the conversations that were going on and I wondered if you could share with us what were his main things that he was speaking on or topics he was speaking on.
- [28:24]
Sister Irenaeus
Oh, he. Oh so, so many things. He was. He helps us to understand the incarnation, God taking on flesh in the person of Jesus Christ. The two things though, that really struck my heart. If you read the catechism, his quotes are some of the. He's one of the most quoted saints in the catechism, actually just about all kind of all the Christian doctrine that we've come to understand. He's explaining it to a people who don't know Christ. And so thus his explanations are I think, really helpful for anybody. Though if you do pick up Irenaeus, you have to sort through a lot of the Roman and cultural references of the time to get to the nuggets where he's more explicitly teaching about Christ. Yeah, but the things that I really loved about him were his teaching on Mary as the new Eve and the resurrection of the body.
- [29:33]
Sister Miriam
Okay, so sister, have you heard of
- [29:36]
Sister Irenaeus
Mary, undoer of knots?
- [29:37]
Sister Miriam
I have. I love that one.
- [29:39]
Sister Irenaeus
So that devotion and it's a beautiful image. A painting that was painted in like the early 1700s, I think, and a prayer that has become more popular. Pope Francis talked about it is actually based off of a teaching of St. Irenaeus from the late one hundreds.
- [29:59]
Sister Miriam
So, sir, I didn't know it was tied to him.
- [30:00]
Sister Irenaeus
Yeah, tied. Oh my gosh. You didn't even know.
- [30:05]
Sister Miriam
I did not.
- [30:07]
Sister Irenaeus
So what he says is that Mary, in her obedience to God's plan, unties the knot. That Eve, in her disobedience at the time of the fall, wanting to be like God, but not trusting in God's plan and time and a way of acting that Eve ties this knot and Mary unties the knot Opening up the way for salvation for all. And as I read that, it just spoke to the words in my heart, or it just spoke to my heart because one, it helped me understand a new thing about Our lady, that just how she is our mother, that. And how she can untangle the things of our life, but also. What. What she was. What he was talking about in terms of Eve's disobedience and Mary's obedience, is that as a postulate, you know, thinking about that as his sisters, we make the vows of poverty, chastity and obedience. I already knew that that obedience was not my natural disposition.
- [31:24]
Sister Miriam
Well, I think we all struggle in that to some extent.
- [31:27]
Sister Irenaeus
Yes, we all. We all want to do. Do things our way. And so I just really. That became my prayer, asking St. Irenaeus for his intercession, asking Our lady for her intercession, but just praying that. That my obedience would open the way to salvation for others.
- [31:47]
Sister Miriam
That's beautiful. And I had a thought too, about the undoer of knots. Just if anyone has, There might be. Some people haven't heard about that particular, like, devotion or way of thinking of Our Lady. She's pictured with a rope that has knots on it. And so we could think of these. There's things going on in our life as, like you said, little entanglements here and there. But maybe there's. There's, like a relationship that's in a knot in your life, or there's this situation going on and you just don't know how you're going to get out of it. How's it going to resolve? Of course we feel anxiety in those moments, not knowing what's going to happen. But. But you picture, like, this rope with these knots along the way, our little entanglements, and. And you could say Hail Mary at each of those knots or ask Mary to pray, to intercede in that specific situation, in that relationship. I've actually even done it where I actually have a rope. I've done this at retreats before. You have a rope and it has the knots on it, and you're considering what these different areas are. And as you pray, you actually undo the knot. And that's very. It's just kind of turning it over. It brings a lot of calm and peace. Have you ever done it with actual rope?
- [33:11]
Sister Irenaeus
I've not specifically done it with actual rope, but one of the things that I've prayed with is how that's an invitation to trust in the Lord and his timing. Because if you've ever tried to untangle a rope Or. Or a rosary like this does get tangled up sometimes that you can't like. The more, like, anxious you get about it, the more kind of stressed you get, the more that you're trying to rush it, like, the worse it gets versus, like, slowly picking it apart, basically. Kind of trusting in the slow work of God. And so that's Marianne, Doer of Knots has also kind of helped me learn to surrender in that way.
- [34:00]
Sister Miriam
I love it, Sister. Okay, so the teaching on the new Eve and the obedience.
- [34:06]
Sister Irenaeus
Yes.
- [34:06]
Sister Miriam
You realize that Mary could help. She could help you out in that regard. But the other aspect of Saint Irenaeus you mentioned was the resurrection.
- [34:16]
Sister Irenaeus
Yes.
- [34:16]
Sister Miriam
Yes.
- [34:17]
Sister Irenaeus
So the resurrection of the body is something that we reference in the Creed and the Apostles Creed. It actually says the resurrection of the body and the Nicene Creed that we say at Mass, resurrection and the life of the world to come. I think I have missed a phrase there, trying to say the Nicene Creed.
- [34:39]
Sister Miriam
Adam context, trying to jump in the middle is hard.
- [34:41]
Sister Irenaeus
Yes. So the resurrection of the body, what it is, is. It's a teaching of the Church based off of our understanding of what Christ came to do when he took on human flesh, that he himself rose and ascended into heaven. The goal was not that the Lord would just stay in heaven. The goal was opening up heaven for all of us as well. And so St. Paul in the first letter of the Corinthians, refers to Christ as the firstfruits, that he's the first one to go to heaven. But as the Church Fathers talked about it, as Saint Irenaeus considered, what does this mean? There was an understanding across the Church that we are meant to follow where Christ has gone, and we're meant to follow body and soul at the end of our life. What death is the separation of our soul and our body. And we instinctively know, like, that's not the way that it should be. Right. That this is a result of the Fall.
- [35:49]
Sister Miriam
You feel that when you lose someone, it's not as it ought to be. I feel that so deeply.
- [35:54]
Sister Irenaeus
Yes. And so Christ, in his plan of redemption, not only opens up heaven to our souls, but opens up heaven to us as we are in our entirety, which is body and soul. And that won't happen until the end of time, until the fulfillment of all things, but it's the ultimate restoration of this great wound that is the result of the Fall. There's the scripture phrase that the last enemy to be destroyed, destroyed as death, where we will be united body and soul. But what Irenaeus talked about Then was that we're meant to love God with our body and our soul. And once again those words. So you would think, you know, he's writing to almost 2000 years ago or 1800 years ago like that they would. Those words would, you know, be like dry or hard to read. And sometimes they are challenging. But they, they struck me to the heart because I think one of the wounds of our time is that people don't know what their bodies are for. I didn't know what I was made for. And you know that sometimes we hold it up as like that this is the end all, be all, you know, like, you know, protect and take care of the body at all costs. Or we dismiss it, disparage it, tear it down, hate it, and, and neither of those things are true. That our body united with our soul is how we love the Lord and also how we're loved by Him. And so that where that. That our body and soul will be together for all eternity. That's an incredible thing, an incredible place of hope. So St. Irena's he has the. He had words for me in 2012, 2013, when I received my name. And just as an example of how the saints, they know human nature and it's so applicable.
- [37:58]
Sister Miriam
I mean we mentioned AI briefly, but from what he's saying about body soul, we get our understanding together with other things, of course, other like with revelation and other writings. But we understand the dignity of the human person when we're thinking about the use of a technology like AI has to take into account the very special dignity that every human person has. Yes, so. So it's still applicable even as we wrestle these current issues. Yeah. Anything additional, Sister? You, you, you've talked a little bit about, you know, how it applies even to this day. I wonder though, Sister, do you have any like, just general, last, last words of encouragement that you would like to. To give our listeners? Just in the spiritual life in general, I just.
- [38:59]
Sister Irenaeus
What's coming to mind is that sometimes I get down on myself that like I'm still a mess. I've still got all of these things in my life that I have haven't figured out, but I'm his mess. And that each one of our listeners like that they are also his. His mess. And that Christ comes in the messiness that we might feel a little bit lost, but the parables tell us that the Lord loves lost things and he never gets tired of looking for the lost Sister.
- [39:37]
Sister Miriam
Thank you. That's beautiful now and we're not quite done because I wanted to let our viewers know and our listeners, this is going to be a very, very special. I asked Sister to share her reading plan. Sister loves reading and as we've, we've heard, she picked up the Fathers of the Church as a postulant and she's constantly reading. And I've actually asked her if she would explain her reading plan but also share it digitally. And we can make that available to you in the description. But Sister, please. Okay, so I'm not an avid reader. Get me pumped here. Sister, what, what do you got going on for reading plan?
- [40:20]
Sister Irenaeus
Okay. There is always something to read and it's so I love learning new things. I love studying for school. But as a science teacher, sometimes you can get like stuck in the science world. I just love, love to have like the breadth of knowledge. And so I was actually like tired of making decisions at one point. And, and so paradoxically what I decided to do was to spend the next few days making a reading plan in all of my free time so that way I wouldn't have to make future
- [40:55]
Sister Miriam
decisions getting it all done out of the way. You're not book plan.
- [41:01]
Sister Irenaeus
Well, but I, I'm also like not like a super rule follower. So it's important to realize like that this is not exclusive. I can and will read other things that are not on this list. And also if I'm like behind, I'm not down on myself on being behind. This is just like guidelines.
- [41:17]
Sister Miriam
Got it. Reading guidelines.
- [41:20]
Sister Irenaeus
But so basically what I created for myself was a five year plan. This is sounding more ridiculous as I say it out loud.
- [41:30]
Sister Miriam
I think it's amazing, hon. Honestly, I was actually telling a Sister about this. The fact that we're going to talk about this on the podcast and we were coming in from playing Frisbee actually, and she asked me what the podcast was going to be about and I said, oh, the Fathers of True. But I said, sister's gonna share her reading plan. And that Sister said, can I get that? After you.
- [41:52]
Sister Irenaeus
Every, everyone can have my reading plan. Which isn't like, you know, it doesn't have to be the reading plan for everybody, but it's what I've been interested in. Reading, reading. So as I'm reading like Irenaeus or the Fathers of the Church or other literature, so many of them make references to especially like Greek and Roman things that going to public school definitely had some gaps in my education and sort of more classical things and so didn't really know those. So I've been kind of picking apart or picking away that's weird. Chipping away at reading some of these sources, Greek and Roman sources, for the past few years, but decided to make a plan. So in each month, my goal is to read one book that's kind of considered a great work, a great book. Those are things that might be on, like, university reading list. They're things that other literature references. And I'm working my way chronologically. So this year I've been doing, like, Greek, Roman and early Christian things and then moving towards modernity.
- [43:07]
Sister Miriam
What book are you on right now for your great work?
- [43:11]
Sister Irenaeus
So right now the great work that I'm reading is Plutarch's Lives of the Greeks and Romans. So, you know, have that on my bedside table right now. And it's basically Plutarch is like. Like comparing a Greek and a Roman and their particular characteristics. But then also then we can apply the Christian worldview. And were these great people virtuous or not is a different question. So that's been really interesting and beautiful. So there's a great work every month. So a few months ago, I was working on Homer. Last month was the Aeneid. And that was a little bit harder to read before bed. That one was a little bit more challenging.
- [43:58]
Sister Miriam
Did that one help you get to sleep?
- [44:00]
Sister Irenaeus
It did. I could only go a few pages before I was like, I'm really tired. But that was also end of the school year, which is like, not the best time for productive end of the day reading.
- [44:14]
Sister Miriam
Yes.
- [44:14]
Sister Irenaeus
Okay. So I've got a great book each month. And then I've got something that I call a good book each month. And it might be children's literature or something that's a little bit more casual or a little bit lighter, but that it's still. My goal is that it's still something that is filling my mind with truth, beauty and goodness. And maybe it's doing that because of the character is virtuous. Maybe it's doing it because the character's in need of redemption and getting to see sort of like God's plan of redeeming love through that character and maybe their sinfulness, but also just things that are inspiring my heart with love of him, forming my heart in truth, beauty and goodness.
- [45:04]
Sister Miriam
So there are novels included?
- [45:06]
Sister Irenaeus
Oh, yes. So this month on the great book, which is kind of a delight, is I'm reading Winnie the Pooh.
- [45:13]
Sister Miriam
Oh, this is the good book. I just say that was a great weekend.
- [45:18]
Sister Irenaeus
The good book this month is the Adventures of Winnie, the Complete Adventures of Winnie the Pooh. And we've got at The Mother House, this beautiful illustrated copy. And I'm just like. And it has a ribbon. I love. I love a book with a ribbon. But they also, you know, in literature, in novels, and whether it's something a little bit more modern, something a little bit more. A little bit older or more traditional, but they show us things about human nature. Last. So last night, in my. In my Winnie the Pooh reading, Piglet was being in a rain. There was the rain, this rainstorm that was basically like the water was rising around Piglet's house. And one of the things that struck me was that Piglet said it would have been really exciting if other people were there to share it with. And because other people weren't there to share it with, like, Piglet was so scared and sends a little bottle that says, like, help. I help. Help me help Piglet. But just thinking about, like, that, about human nature, of how we can face so much more when we've got other people with us. So that's the good book each month, and then the last book for each month is a spiritual reading book. We have before compline about 15 minutes of spiritual reading every night. It's beautiful that we give and teach so much and so just have a time in our day that's actually meant to, like, fill us back up. Is incredible. And so you can always find a spiritual reading book. There's so many good books. But also, I came to the conclusion a while ago of, like, I could. I could go a little bit deeper. I could do a little bit more sometimes with my spiritual reading book. And that there are spiritual reading books or there are books that other saints have read that have helped them become saints. You know, the most classic story is Edith Stein. St. Teresa, Benedicta of the Cross, like, is at these people's house. She picks up a book by Teresa of Avila and, like, her conversion happens. And so to include some of those books to go back to them if I've read them before and let them, like, because they're usually not meant to be just read once. But to go back to those books and to have a plan of formation of my heart, even for my spiritual reading books.
- [48:01]
Sister Miriam
Sister, that's great. And you're willing to share all of this with us?
- [48:05]
Sister Irenaeus
Yes. And there are books that are not on there. Like, if there are listeners who are, like, avid readers, they're going to like, well, why isn't this and this and this on it? And that's so true, because I've, like, redone this list, like, four times myself. Because you want to have more in the list than you, actually. But also, it's what I can. It's what I can do. Like, I think I can do three books a month, like a spiritual reading book a month, a great work a month, a good book a month. Maybe I can do more. Praise God. And then, I don't know, when this five years ends, maybe I'll start a new reading plan with the books that I didn't get to put on this one.
- [48:47]
Sister Miriam
And I think you said if you had read a book recently when you were making your list, you it wasn't your first choice, but on the list.
- [48:55]
Sister Irenaeus
Yeah. And then some of the times I did be like, well, I could go back to that. But it's also helping teach me patience, because there's some books that I want to read this summer that I'm like, it is on my reading list in
- [49:06]
Sister Miriam
a little over a year, and I'm
- [49:08]
Sister Irenaeus
trying to hold out. We'll see how long that lasts.
- [49:14]
Sister Miriam
Well, in the summer, you might have a bit more reading time, so maybe you can skip ahead here and there. All right, Sister, we're going to our goodness radiates section, which is our virtue spotting. So I'm going to tell you what amazing virtue I appreciate in you. And I was thinking about this, and I'm going to find it in here. Sister is the epitome of affability. So affability is being easy to approach and talk to, being friendly. Sister, you have this down. So I really appreciate seeing that in action because it encourages me. But I've also been a recipient of your affable spirit, and so, so I appreciate it, Sister.
- [50:05]
Sister Irenaeus
Thank you.
- [50:05]
Sister Miriam
Yeah. Have you taken the survey?
- [50:08]
Sister Irenaeus
I have.
- [50:09]
Sister Miriam
Okay. Now, what were your findings on our virtue?
- [50:11]
Sister Irenaeus
Capability was pretty high up there. I love, I love trying to make people feel comfortable. And Sister, you do that so well as well. But one of my top virtues is actually utrapilia.
- [50:22]
Sister Miriam
Ooh, tell us about that one.
- [50:24]
Sister Irenaeus
So eutropilia is the virtue, and there is a virtue for this of being able to truly have fun. And so it's, you know, it's all virtues in the middle. So there's not like, you know, you don't neglect the things that you have to do.
- [50:42]
Sister Miriam
Your responsibilities.
- [50:44]
Sister Irenaeus
You have the responsibilities. But it's also that, like, you can just have a delight and a sense of fun in things. And I do, I do delight in things,
- [50:56]
Sister Miriam
Sister. Good. I, I, it's always fun to be with, with people with utrapilia, where utra palae is Their thing because. Because someone who has that virtue is kind of like they're the life of the party. You know what I think the opposite of that is? I tell my students this when I'm teaching high school. Sometimes they'll go to an event and they'll be like, oh, that was boring. And I think you're boring. Like, you go and you make it fun. Like, I think someone with utropalia has an awareness of, like, what can I give to this to make it enjoyable for all? And it's a self gift, an outpouring. You're playing a game, like, let's make this fun. It's a, It's a giving that things
- [51:35]
Sister Irenaeus
are as enjoyable as you want them to be. Yeah.
- [51:37]
Sister Miriam
Instead of expecting to be entertained in
- [51:41]
Sister Irenaeus
a way, one of our sisters, Sister Elizabeth Ann, I just like, she has. I. I wonder if it's in her top virtues. You'll have to. We'll have to ask her. But she just has that beauty, that virtue, in such a beautiful way of welcoming everybody into, like, this just life
- [52:00]
Sister Miriam
of joy into the fun. Okay, speed round, Sister, speed round. What is your favorite liturgical season and
- [52:11]
Sister Irenaeus
why Christmas always Christmas because Christ came. Oh, it's such the best and all
- [52:20]
Sister Miriam
that goes with that, right?
- [52:21]
Sister Irenaeus
Yes.
- [52:22]
Sister Miriam
Do you have a hobby?
- [52:25]
Sister Irenaeus
Anything, like, outdoors, things, Walking. I also love to cook.
- [52:29]
Sister Miriam
Okay. What is your favorite game at the moment?
- [52:35]
Sister Irenaeus
Trivia Trivia Tuesdays.
- [52:38]
Sister Miriam
Trivia Tuesdays.
- [52:40]
Sister Irenaeus
Trivial Pursuit. Usually on Tuesdays, but sometimes if we're busy on Tuesday, we'll like, observe it on a different day of the week.
- [52:47]
Sister Miriam
It's Trivia Wednesday.
- [52:50]
Sister Irenaeus
Yes.
- [52:51]
Sister Miriam
I feel. Feel successful when I'm on your team in general, like, with the trivia nights.
- [52:56]
Sister Irenaeus
We have so many sisters who just. I like, love to bask in their, like, the things that they know that I don't know that I'm like, tell me, tell me more. It's the best. So. And. And half the fun of trivia is not specifically the questions. It's like the conversations that people have where they reveal, like, things that, like, I didn't even know that I could know about. It's the. The best.
- [53:19]
Sister Miriam
There was one day we were playing trivia. You walked in late and we had not known the answer to a question. It was to do with the United States government and the role of the Secretary of State. And you walked in and were like, sister, explain this to us. Like, why does the Secretary of State, blah, blah, blah. And you're like, oh, yeah, it's because of. And you, like, knew all that about the government and just flesh it out. Remember that day.
- [53:40]
Sister Irenaeus
We're like, wow.
- [53:41]
Sister Miriam
Well, except you came a few minutes too late. So we had already not gotten it. All right, so what is a book that has impacted your spiritual life that you would recommend besides the Bible?
- [53:55]
Sister Irenaeus
Well, I do have a reading plan. No, the book that I think has had the most impact on my spiritual life would be Cradle of Redeeming Love by John Seward. It's about the theology of the Christmas mystery. I sent him a Christmas card a couple years ago. He wrote back. Oh, wow.
- [54:14]
Sister Miriam
Okay. Your favorite title of Our lady and why
- [54:19]
Sister Irenaeus
Our Lady Guadalupe. I. When I taught in Texas, the people of Texas and just embraced me into her, into like, how they loved her,
- [54:35]
Sister Miriam
the devotion of it.
- [54:36]
Sister Irenaeus
And I. And I now love her.
- [54:40]
Sister Miriam
What age group do you most enjoy teaching in Washington? Why?
- [54:45]
Sister Irenaeus
Probably I haven't actually taught them very much at all, but like early to mid elementary because they have such curiosity and wonder and delight and confidence. Like to a fourth grader who knows something is they. They have all the confidence in the world. Okay.
- [55:06]
Sister Miriam
Name an activity that brings you peace and refreshes your spirit. It
- [55:14]
Sister Irenaeus
cooking. When, like, you're not stressed. I love, I love to cook. But there are days, like after school where, like, you know, you just got to get the meal on the table. But like, say it's like Sunday morning and I'm like, making Sunday lunch and I decide, like, I'm going to make a soup and just where like, you could be, like, chopping things, putting in the pot, cooking with the Holy Spirit. Is that what I want?
- [55:37]
Sister Miriam
Now I'm curious if yesterday is one of those days for you. I mean, you're cooking for.